Finding Marriage Mentors

Hey, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we are so honored that you're joining us today for what's going to be a really, really fun and important conversation about a topic that we've never addressed specifically, but something that's made a huge difference in our own marriage, and that is finding a mentor couple.

That's right.

You know, so. And you're thinking, what does that even mean? Like, why would I need that? Well, stick around. I think you might be. You might be surprised by some of the stuff we talk about, but I think that it'll be really helpful to you. But before we get there, the brilliant and beautiful Ashley Willis is going to read one of your reviews. And thank you, by the way, to those who've been leaving reviews. We read them all. We really do, on iTunes, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you're listening or watching when you leave a review. It's encouraging to us. It's instructive to us. It lets us know what's resonating with you. It helps even shape kind of future content of the show, and it keeps us going because we know it makes a difference in your life, which is why we do this in the first place. So, sweetie, would you like to share a recent one?

I do. This one today is. It's entitled awesome, which we like, and it's five stars from Leslie Bardo, and it says, I am single and never been married due to marriages around me. I was extremely fearful of marriage because I didn't see any healthy or happy examples. After listening to this podcast, I feel like I have the resources I need to to be hopefully successful. I feel hopeful now, and I love that, Leslie. Like, when we hear about people who have the desire to be married but aren't quite engaged yet, when we hear that you're listening to this, it just warms our hearts because you are ahead of the game. Like, I wish that we had a marriage podcast to listen to all those years ago when we got married, because the more that you know about marriage and understand about marriage and how to have a great marriage, the better you will be when you finally do meet that person and eventually get married. So thank you so much for listening and leaving that review, Leslie.

All right, well, let's dive into today's episode.

I am so excited to talk about this topic today because we are talking about marriage mentors, and marriage mentors have made a huge impact in our marriage. And I think that there's something that many people forget is even a resource. I think so many times we kind of complicate things and we kind of did early on in our marriage. We didn't necessarily have marriage mentors right out of the gate, but. But I wish we did because it's something that has been such a resource that we've gone back to time and time again. And so we're gonna talk today about how do you find great marriage mentors?

Yeah. And this is huge. And it can help you in so many ways because so many challenges in marriage, mistakes in marriage can be helped or even prevented by realizing you don't have to figure it all out completely by yourself. We live in a world and in a culture that teaches this kind of self reliance. And yeah, there's certainly times where it's good to, to kind of be self reliant, I guess. But as a whole, God created us for community first and foremost. We're created to live in community. And when you're in community, when you're in healthy relationships with others, then it helps you share the burden and it helps you lean on those who are in the same season of you encouraging each other. It helps you look ahead to mentor couples who are a little further along than you, who have been where you are. They have faced the challenges that you're facing. And, and they can say, well, here's what we did that helped us.

Yes.

And it makes it so much easier and it gives you so much hope and perspective to know that there's somebody else that's been through it and they can help you with what they've learned and give you a head start.

Absolutely. And that's definitely been our case. You know, we have marriage mentors, Todd and Stacy. There's been many others that we've definitely learned from throughout the years. But we've gone back to Todd and Stacy about a lot of things throughout the years, but it took us being intentional about it. And some of you listening. I wanna go ahead and address this right out of the gate. And some of you maybe are watching this or listening to this and you're thinking, well, what about your parents? I mean, if your parents have a pretty solid marriage, why not just go to them? And I don't wanna count your parents out. I mean, they certainly can be a resource. But there's gonna come a time in your marriage where you're going through something where you may not wanna tell your parents all the details, because let me tell you, it's really hard for them to forget something that maybe Your spouse, did that hurt you? Because that mama bear and papa bear really comes out. And so that's when you're gonna need a marriage mentor in your life, because they are more neutral. And. And again, there's somebody maybe who's further along than you that you can go to and be honest with and really gain perspective from, but it can't just be anybody. You know, there has to be criteria when it comes to finding these marriage mentors. And, you know, many. Much like when it comes to finding good couple friends, I think that they need to have these four characteristics. You know, number one, they need to love the Lord. Number two, they need to really love you. Number three, they need to love your spouse. And number four, they need to be for your marriage and pro marriage in general. And if they don't have all of these characteristics, they're probably not gonna be a great marriage mentor. But I do believe when it comes to mentors specifically, too, and Dave's touched on this, they need to be a little bit ahead of you. And I would say a good rule of thumb would be like, five to 10 years. I know for us, you know, Todd and Stacy are probably about 10 years ahead of us. And when we came to that point where it was actually Dave who actually encouraged me to really consider this as a resource, we actually were going through a hard time in our marriage where we just could not get on the same page with parenting our kids. I tend to be more of kind of the bad cop, so to speak, and Dave's more of the good cop. And I always tease and say he's just nicer. And so somewhere in between the two of us was like, a really great, balanced parent.

I think I was lazier. I think that's probably like, yeah, you kids do whatever you want.

It wasn't quite like that.

It wasn't quite like that either.

But he could sense my frustration with him. And it was kind of a growing frustration because the kids were kind of pinning us against each other, and that's just like kids do, and young parents, parents who have those little kids, you think those precious little babies are never gonna put you against each other, but they will just wait. And that's when you need your marriage mentors. And Dave sensed my frustration, and he said, listen, I can tell that this one part of our marriage, this trying to get on the same page when it comes to discipline, is really causing friction between us. And he said, I have an idea. What if we reach out to some marriage mentors and just have them over for dinner? And just kind of learn from them, tell them what's going on and learn from them. Maybe mistakes they've made, things that have worked in their marri and their perspective on this subject. And my first reaction was like, oh, I don't wanna bother anybody. You know, people are busy and you know people, they probably won't wanna do it. And Dave just kinda, very gently grabbed my hand and looked at me and said, sweetie, you can't make excuses for people. You know, what's the hurt in asking? And so he said, I want you to think about a couple at our church that is about 10 years ahead of us that has maybe a similar family dynamic to us as far as, like, number of kids. And he said, and just tell me who comes to mind, Pray about it, think about it. And what's so cool is God brought the same couple to both of our minds, which I'm not surprised by at all.

No, I'm not. And just be open to that and then ask. And we just invited him over for dinner and told him, said, hey, will you come over for dinner? And specifically, we have an agenda. We want to hang out with you.

Yet you don't lie to us, don't like.

But we also, we want to ask your perspective. Like, you're farther ahead than us. You know, you've got the same number of kids we have. They're now all grown or about grown. And just. You have a healthy dynamic. You know, it's not perfect, but it's a healthy dynamic that you clearly have a lot that you could teach us. And we're in a tough season of parenting and finding unity around parenting and would just love your perspective on things you learned along the way. And they were honored. They were like genuinely honored to be asked. And they came and they shared some great wisdom that really, really did help us. And then they followed up and continued to pray for us and check up on us. You know, we've. It doesn't have to be super formalized. You know, a mentor doesn't have to be, you know, you don't have to, it doesn't have to look like Mr. Miyagi and the Karate Kid, where you're, you're meeting at 5am every day to do physical exercises together. It's more just relational. It's like having somebody, you know, you can go to and they've got your back and they can share some things. And then there are going to be times where you get to do that same thing for other people who were younger who were just coming up and I think mentor couples can be people. On one hand, you know, you need to have a mentor couple in your life in different seasons that you can know personally and they can know you personally. But through the years, I've also, both individually and us as a couple, we've had mentors in our life who we've never met in person or maybe who've been dead for a long time because we've studied the books that they read or we've looked at the content they produced and just constantly be learning from other people as part of having mentor couples. And so that's part of it. Just be a constant learner. You're doing that right now just by listening to a podcast focused on marriage. So you're on the right track with that. But there is still no substitute for being in personal relationship with people where there can be accountability and support and personalized advice and prayer. So. So don't cut yourself short with that. And I think the best place to find that is within the church. The church is God's design for putting us in community where we can have friendships, we can have mentors, we can mentor others, and together, collectively, as the body of Christ, collectively, we can all grow in our faith and grow in our knowledge. And if you don't have a church home, I would encourage you strongly find a church home and then actively look to find community there. I heard a pastor one time saying, biblical community isn't something that's found, it's something that's forged. Community isn't something you just stumble upon and you have all this natural chemistry with people and you never have to work at it. Community is something you've got to work at. You've got to be intentional and consistent about building relationships one little bit at a time and building trust with people and community with people. But it is such a gift when you do the work to invest in those relationships. So just like we talk about with marriage, a healthy marriage takes such consistency and such effort and such investment. So does friendship and mentorship outside of marriage. And so be willing to put in the work, because I'm telling you, it is so worth it.

It is so worth it. And I know some of you listening to this and watching this are thinking, okay, I want a marriage mentor. You know, I do go to church, but that just seems daunting to me. Like, there's these hundreds of people. I mean, how do I even do? I just cold go up to somebody. I mean, how do I do this? And I know it can seem intimidating, but the best place to start is, if you're not involved in some way at your church, go ahead and get involved. Volunteer for something. And you will naturally meet people through your volunteering process. Like, for example, you might join the greeting team at your church, and then you're gonna get to meet other married couples as you're greeting. And you're not only helping your church out, you're also gonna form friendships. If you're not part of a small group at your church, join a small group, and specifically join one that has other married couples from all different walks of life, all different ages, that is specifically for married people to kind of make their marriage better. And you're gonna meet couples that way. You know, I think that you just kind of have to. You have to start somewhere. And I think what we often do is we feel overwhelmed, and we don't do anything. So we. When you don't do anything, nothing's gonna change. But if you go out of your way to be intentional and to really just try to be friends with people, that's really the first. You know, the place to start is just to get to know people. You will naturally find that you're gonna have. Maybe you're gonna find kindred spirits in those couples that are a little further along than you, and they will be so excited to teach you what they know. You know, Dave and I are now at a place where we've been married almost 20 years, and we have people who come to us, and not only just in our work that we do, you know, here at Exomarriage, but in just being, you know, in our community and at our church, we have people that have just gotten to know us, and they just. They come to us, and we are always so excited to tell them what we know, especially, you know, even when it comes to parenting and things. Like, we're in a small group that has people from all different kind of phases of marriage and seasons of parenting. And there's one couple in particular that's fairly new, and they've come to us a lot with some parenting questions, and it's so fun, and. And just being able to teach them what we know. And so don't think that somebody doesn't want to take the time with you, because most likely they do. And if for some reason you get turned down, that's just not the right couple. That's not your marriage mentor couple. And that's okay. You know, you live and you learn. No big deal. Asking is not the worst thing in the world. And getting turned down, it just means that that's not the right couple and you need to keep on praying about it and ask another couple.

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We all need to constantly be learning. I mean, I tell that to my kids all the time. You know, they'll see me like reading a book and they'll be like, why are you reading? You're not even in school. You're old. And I'm like, well, I never want to stop learning. You know, learning isn't just for when you're school in school. It's a lifelong process. And in every part of our life, I think we're called to continuous growth. And marriage should be one of the most important parts of our life. I think it's, you know, right under our relationship with God is our relationship with our spouse. And it's a relationship that we need to keep growing in. And yeah, we certainly keep growing in it by investing directly in time with our spouse. And, you know, most of what we talk about here on the Naked Marriage podcast is how to do that, how to, how to grow directly in your one on one relationship with your spouse. But for both of you collectively to grow as a couple, you need to be willing also to look outside of just your own personal experiences to tap into the wealth of knowledge of people who've come before. I think one of the greatest tragedies of our time as a society and as a culture is how our generations are so segmented and isolated, they're siloed off from one another. And we're taught from an early age of like, okay, the first graders hang out with first graders and the second graders hang out with second graders. And all through life, it seems like we're just, we're organized off by age. And there's certainly some benefit of having peers of your age, and I think that's important as well. But we can never forget to reach out to those who are Older, intentionally reach out to those who are older and learn from their wisdom and also reach out to those who are younger and be willing to, one learn from them and be challenged by their perspective and their youthful enthusiasm, but also teach them. Also be willing to, you know, to pour into them what we have learned. And if we have that multi generational approach, again, which is part of the design of the church, but I think it's also the design for a healthy community and culture. Beyond that, our lives are going to be much more enriched in the process.

Absolutely. And I just want to say that Dave is really focusing a lot on wisdom because he himself is getting into an older age. And today, the day this podcast is releasing is his birthday.

That's right.

And he's becoming wiser today.

I've had a lot of work done and. No, yeah, no, it is October 26th.

That's right.

And one of our kids just had a birthday two days ago.

I know.

October 24, he turned nine.

Gosh, it goes by too fast.

It does. I remember bringing him home from the hospital. It does go by fast.

It really does.

You know, I'm just gonna, like, sound like an old dude for a second. But, like, you know, I heard again, like a mentor lady that I used to work with, Ann, who worked in our office at the church, and she was a generation ahead of me, really. Just a wise.

Such an amazing lady. Yes.

And with parenting, she'd raised a couple sons, and I would. At the time, we just had real young kids. And she would say, ah, the days are long, but the years are short. And I was like, what does that even mean?

You know, I'm just stressed out.

But it's so true. It is the truth now, you know? It's so true. Anne was right, as she was about most things. The days sometimes seem long when you're raising kids. It's like, man, will this day ever end? But then over time, you look back and you're like, where have these years gone? I mean, the years have just gone by so fast, and it's a reminder to really savor those moments. And that's something I think an older mentor can help you do. Because when you're in the thick of any season of life, whether it's raising kids or whatever, there's a survival mode inside of us that just says, get through it. Just get through it. Just get through it as fast as you can. And I certainly have days like that. But when I'm reminded by those who've kind of gone before to say, man, slow down. You're going to miss this time. You know, this is a beautiful season. Don't just rush to the next thing you know, you're living these days. You're rushing through right now. You're going to look back on as the good old days, and you're going to wish you had slowed down to really take it in. And so right now, whatever season you're in, maybe I'm just getting nostalgic because it's my birthday and I might not have many birthdays left at this age, but enjoy life. You know, slow down and savor every day as a gift from God. You know, the hard days bring growth, the easy days bring rest. But every day has blessings from God, opportunities from God to savor his goodness. And don't miss that. Don't miss that in your marriage. Don't miss that in your children. Right. Make the most of it.

Absolutely. And I do think bringing it back around to marriage mentors, I do think one way we can make the most of it and not let that frustration get the best of us and really kind of make us say things and do things that we regret is by reaching out for help. Like, there's such strength in reaching out for help, and marriage mentors are one way that you can do that. You know, there's times when, you know, you need to go even beyond a marriage mentor and get professional help from a Christian counselor. Like, we talk about this all the time, so definitely do that. If it's a prolonged problem, that maybe getting a marriage mentor isn't quite cutting it. But I think for some of these things that are just, you know, these issues where it just seems to be a sticking point in your marriage, going and reaching out to a marriage mentor would just be such a huge relief. I mean, I remember meeting with Todd and Stacy for the first time and us being kind of in the thick of raising young children and feeling like we just couldn't get on the same page. When I sat there and just learned from them, I felt such a weight off my shoulders. Didn't you, sweetie?

Yes.

I mean, it really was just such.

A turning point, realizing there's somebody that's been there, that's encouraging us, somebody that has our back. When we have the courage to reach out for help, it is empowering. And it is so.

That's a great word.

It's empowering. It is. It's like all of a sudden you're tapping into this. You're like, I don't have the wisdom and strength to do this. Whenever you get To a place where you're like, I don't have the wisdom and strength to do what I have to do. That's God's way of saying that we need to lean on him more and that we need to lean on others more. Because here's the deal. You don't have to have the wisdom and strength to solve all the world's problems, that you don't even have to have the wisdom and strength to solve all your own problems. Like, we're called to carry each other's burdens, the Bible says. And so lean on each other. And there's joy in that. And there's also joy, you know, when you're in a position to offer that help to others. Yes, there's a joy, and there's such satisfaction in knowing, man, God worked through me to help somebody else. What a gift that is. And, yeah, so don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to do that. Put these things into practice, and you'll be so glad you did. We will. All right, well, this time we're going to transition to our Q and A time. We love the questions you guys send in. You can, of course, write us on social media, Facebook, or Dave and Ashley Willis on Instagram, but the questions we answer specifically on the podcast are the ones submitted to nakedmarriagepodcast.com Sweetie, would you like to read this one?

Yes. All right. It says, we have been married for a year, and there is one thing I'm not sure how to communicate with my husband about. We live several hours away from his family, and it bothers me that they call him constantly, multiple times a day. Their calls are always to complain to him about their problems. It wasn't like this when we were dating. I want my husband's attention, and I don't know how to bring this up to him without sounding really selfish. How do I talk to him about this? Needed boundary. That's a great question.

Yeah, that really, really is great. And boundary is the right word. You know, a book that we read early in our marriage that helped us tremendously has that same title. It's called Boundaries by doctors John Townsend and Henry Cloud. We've talked about that book a lot, just because it's helped us so much. You know, they need to start sending us royalties, probably for the referrals that we've sent to that book. So, doctors Townsend and Cloud, if you're listening, you know, you can at least send a gift card or something. But no, it really is a.

It's a game changer.

It's a great book, and I think it would really help in your situation. And it's going to come. You can't expect them, you know, the people who are trampling on your boundaries to get it, because if you don't have boundaries up, then they won't know that they're there. And so, yeah, what they're doing is clearly out of bounds, but they need to know where the boundaries are. And so that needs to be a conversation with you and your husband where you find unity together. And I think that unity might just be determining, like, what's a realistic amount of time that I'm going to spend on the phone per day or per week or whatever, and then not going above that, and then just him talking to his family like, hey, listen, I love you guys, but I'm trying to really reorder and restructure my life, to put the biblical balance of making sure that my wife comes first and I'm meeting her needs and there's peace within our home, first and foremost. And then with whatever time and energy I have left, I always want to be a good son and brother or whatever else to you guys. But right now, my life's gotten out of balance. My technology use has gotten out of balance. And so I'm going to be using the phone a lot less. I'm going to be much less available than I have been. And I'm not trying to offend anybody with that, but it's just something I need to do to protect my own sanity, my own margins, and more importantly, my own marriage. And he might need to just have the do not Disturb feature on his phone a lot. And his family is going to have to maybe just get in the habit of calling and it going straight to voicemail, and then him not quickly returning that voicemail or maybe returning it with a text of like, hey, you know, I can't talk right now. You know, let's connect later in the week. Yeah, they're not going to like it, and that's hard. Disappointing people we love is hard. But every decision you make in life is going to disappoint somebody. And if you go through life just trying to please everybody, you're going to end up exhausted, burnout and bitter and no good to anyone at all. So you and your husband have to determine those boundaries. You two have to get on the same page, and everybody else can learn to live with it. I mean, I think it's really that simple.

It is, but it takes time, you know, and be prepared for them not to, like it, at first they will probably kick and scream, so to speak, and really let you know and let him know, I guess, you know, that they don't like that decision. But eventually they will come around because they do, you know, love him and love you. And ultimately they do want what's best. But right now they're getting what they want. They're getting to talk whenever and be at, you know, they're getting to be at his beck and call. And so it needs to be. There needs to be, you know, some boundaries established. And it does have to come from your husband. I don't even think she's asked about that, about her establishing them. But we always say, you know, if it's your parents and they're the ones, you know, who are creating a little bit of a problem, then you as their son or as their daughter, you know, you need to be the one going to them, not the spouse, because they're gonna be much more forgiving to their son or daughter than to the. To the in law, so to speak. You know, you just need to make sure that you, you know, the person whose parents are having the issue need to be the person who actually goes to the parents. But I wanna say this. She mentioned, you know, is it selfish? I don't wanna appear selfish. You're not being selfish. You're just wanting to have a great marriage and to connect with your husband. And I don't think that there's anything selfish about that. I think you're just trying to have more time for the two of you. And so when you go to your husband and talk about this, go to him kind of from the standpoint of saying, listen, I miss you. I miss you, and I love your family and I love how good you are to your family. You are such a good son. But I feel like they're taking advantage of you a bit and they probably don't even realize it. Like, give them a benefit of the doubt. They don't realize it. This is a ha. This is a habit that they formed where they tend to call you alive.

There are no villains in this story.

Exactly. And just say, I know that this may be normal for you, but I just feel a little cheated here. And I know it's not on purpose, but I want us to have an amazing marriage. And I feel like if you're constantly fielding these problematic phone calls, then it really disrupts our peace and we need to be the ones to set up these boundaries with your parents. And especially you need to be kind of the voice of setting up the boundary. But I wanna be helping you in this. And so could you pray about this with me and could you read the book Boundaries with me so we can decide how and when to approach them and tell them this and then keep on reinforcing it. You can't back down. You have to keep on reinforcing the boundary. And I promise you from experience. Okay. That eventually they will rise to the occasion and there will be so much more peace in your home.

Man, that is good, good stuff. Thank you guys so much for sending in that question. Thank you to all of you who are listening. Just being part of this online community means a lot. Share this podcast, if you don't mind, and leave reviews wherever you're listening or watching, because that really does help others discover this podcast. And together you're partnering with us and you're part of this community. And speaking of community, I want to thank the people in the room with us. It's like our names that are on the podcast, and it's really kind of like misrepresentation, because it's not just we're the ones talking, but it's like a whole team effort. It's a group effort to make this happen. So I want to give some shout outs, people that need to be thanked more often. First, our producer, Marcus Bowen, our venerable leader, making sure that everything is done smoothly. Then we have some audio video technical ninjas that are all smarter than Mark Zuckerberg. And on that crew is Andrew Grekoff, Chris Stetson, Jonathan Armbruster, whose name I always say wrong. Madison Martinez is assistant producer, fashion coordinator, fashion icon, really. She picks out, like, everything we wear.

She loves that.

And I think really, realistically, she's probably the one in charge. Like, if we were just to figure out who's really in charge here. If you walk into the room, you're like, who's in charge? You want to point people to Madison. And then I also want to welcome our newest team member, Josie Edwards, project coordinator. Just brand new to the EXO team and already, like, I think the whole. I think we've gotten probably 20% better in, like, the two days that she's been here. So I'm. So by next year, you just be ready for what's coming. Be ready. So this team and the rest of the whole team at XO really have just been instrumental in making things happen. You know, our president, Brent Evans. And all the way down the line, we've just got an amazing, amazing group of people that we just had a staff meeting today, and I was looking around thinking what a great team to.

Be part of, I was like, yes.

I can't believe we get to we're on the dream team.

We are.

Like, I feel like I'm on like the Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Scottie Pippen dream team of like the early 90s and the Olympics. But it's marriage ministry. It is. And, and I'm just, I'm just happy to be like a, like a water boy on that team because it's just a great team. So I want to thank them and I want to thank you guys again for listening. So. Share, subscribe, Leave reviews that's right. And check out all the resources@xomarriage.com the site's been newly revamped. There are so many great resources there, including our updated live events calendar. We would love to meet you in person at one of these events. Hope to see you real soon.

We'll see you soon.

Bye.

Bye.