Finding Unity with Money in Your Marriage

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Well, hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, I am so excited to share today's episode with you because we are talking about something that's really important, but so many of us kind of feel disgruntled about sometimes, and that is money. But we have some awesome people who have really done some amazing things with money and know about money better than just about anybody and who are going to share their expert wisdom with us.

Yes, and I need it. I mean, through our marriage, we've shared some about this. Like, we've had stressful moments with money, and we've, you know, we've learned a lot, but we still have a lot to learn. And the Lottox really have a gift. Bob and Linda went from struggling, being, like, dirt poor, basically, to really getting a handle on their finances and really establishing a plan and were able to turn things around with not only great growth, but great generosity. They gave away a million dollars before they turned 40, and I just love that kind of mindset of generosity. And they are such a fun, unique couple. They are authors, podcasters. We're going to talk about their new book and it's going to be a great conversation. One quick announcement before we dive in. Every Wednesday, we've got a new episode of the Naked Marriage podcast and a new series called Hump Day Q and A.

That's right.

So in addition to every Monday's episode, which we always have, we're going to have a midweek episode just answering one of your questions. You can email questions to us@nakedmarriagepodcast.com or write us on Instagram, Ave and Ashley Willis. And you might hear one of your questions answered on Hump Day Q and A. So check that out and let's dive into today's episode. Well, like we said in the intro, we are super excited about today's guests, Bob and Linda. They are so much fun. Fun. And they, like we said in the intro, they've got so much wisdom and just common sense approach. To God's plan for money. And I know that word money can be just like a bad word in marriage sometimes. I know we, we've shared even in our marriage, like, that has been the trigger word that has started some arguments in the seasons when we were getting this part wrong. But the good news is, guys, wherever you are in your financial situation, it can get better. God's got a great plan. And this couple we've got today, they are so gifted at explaining what that plan can look like with a lot of practicality, a lot of biblical insight, and a lot of fun. And so stick around. I think this episode could have the potential to make a life changing impact in your marriage and in your finances as well. So.

That's right.

I'm excited. Bob and Linda, welcome.

Yes.

Thank you for having us. Dave, Ashley. Appreciate it, guys. Honored to be here.

Yeah.

Hey, we are honored to have you guys here. So.

Sure.

Let's dive into the origins. I love what I've read of the book so far. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it here. It is simple, money, rich life, achieve true financial freedom and design a life of eternal impact. And I haven't read through the whole thing yet, but this is one that I really want to read through the whole thing because the parts I've read, I'm like, this is so good. It really is so good. So we're gonna be talking about this book if you're listening. Only though this would be a good episode to head over to YouTube and watch because I don't know, it's just we're gonna have fun and you can, you can see what's going on.

You're listening to see all our smiling faces.

Yeah.

Yes.

These people are too beautiful to only be heard. You need to see Bob and Linda.

Get the fullest set up for you.

That's right. But to start out, guys, tell us a little bit about your origin story. We always love when couples are on the show to start out asking. Tell us about your love story. How did you guys meet? How did that start?

Yeah. Do you want to take it off?

So we had gone to the same church for a while, but Bob was a little bit. One toe in, one toe out.

I wasn't exactly walking with the Lord. I was kind of going out, partying on Saturday night, coming on Sunday morning, falling asleep. I was in that phase of my walk with God.

Yeah. So. But I had grown up in the church. I'd gone there for years. And you were kind of.

I met your dad.

Oh, you met my dad. My dad's the guy that, like, knows everyone in the church. You know, he just talks to everybody.

And I'm really glad that he didn't know I wanted to date you at that point, because we would have never happened.

But.

So the Lord actually kind of called Bob away to a sabbatical.

Yeah.

And that's where he got really serious with the Lord. And it was 20. Like, it was when you were 20, but then you turned 21 on this trip. So that's the time frame. And when he came back, that's when we met. His mom became my boss. I worked at our church, and we just became really, really good, really close friends.

Yeah.

And then after a few years, we started dating. And, I mean, why don't we just.

Let's just tell them the dating story. I think this is really fun.

Go ahead.

So. So we've been dating for a couple years, just like a lot of Christian couples and. Or not dating. I'm sorry. Really good friends for a coup. And I. Neither one of us really thought that we would get married. We were just like, oh, we're really good friends.

You know, like everyone else saw it.

But one day, God kind of hits me upside the head. Boy, look, I got her for you right here. And I'm like, oh, whoa. You know? And I was terrified to ask her out because I had dated a lot of girls in high school and in college, and I realized, if this doesn't work out, then we're not going to be friends anymore and I'm going to lose my best friend. So I was kind of terrified of asking her out, but I really sensed the Lord kind of pushing me to do this. So I finally work up to the nerve to do this. And Linda and I, after church, we had a Friday night service. After church one night, we're sitting in a parking lot because there was no coffee shop open or anything. So we just went to a parking lot. We're sitting and talking. Parking lot in a gas station. Leave it at that.

I love it.

I love it.

So we're sitting there talking, having this conversation. I'm, like, sweating, all nervous because I'm like, I'm about to ask my best friend out, and if she says no, then I'm gonna lose my best friend, and blah, blah, blah. I'm all nervous about it. And so I say, somewhere in this conversation, I bring up this thing of, all right, we've gotten really, really close relationally, and I think we either need to take a step back or take a step Forward. And I said, and I think we should take a step forward. And then Linda doesn't say a word, opens the door, runs out of the car into the gas station. And I'm like, what do I do? Like, what would Hugh Grant do in this situation? I don't know what to do. He, like, he'd have a perfect thing, but I'm just sitting there, like, dumbfounded, like, I have no idea. I wasn't expecting this.

Well, because my backstory is I had never dated anyone before. I was so afraid because I knew, like, what. I think I had a good enough picture of what it looked like to date people and break up and heartache and all that stuff that I just was like, I told the Lord, I only want to date my husband. Like, I just want to date my husband and then get married and be done with it. And so when he says this, it totally freaks me out. I have no idea how to respond. So I run into the gas station to call my best friend and say, what do I do? And she's like, why are you talking to me?

That's how we got started, y'. All.

And so she said yes. You said yes.

She ended up saying yes, started dating, then got married, and we're still together. Hallelujah.

I became less awkward after that.

That's brilliant.

I love it.

And I just want to say. So you had this. This first romantic moment at the gas station? Our first date was at Waffle House, so I knew we'd hang. Guys, like, this is.

There you go.

You know, it's even the most mundane.

Place, and not even Hugh Grant can capture seriously essence of, like, just what happens over a coffee and a waffle, my dear. You know, and it's like, you guys could sell movie rights to the whole. Ran out of the car.

Like, that's so great. I love it.

That's romantic comedy gold right there. And it so beautifully.

It did.

And I love how you guys share so openly that, you know, so you get married, and it's awesome. But money happened to be something that was an issue right, with you guys in the beginning. Can you tell us more about that?

Well, yeah, I think we both. We both were a mess, you know, so, like, down on that sabbatical that I was in, I kind of came to my financial breaking point and realized that I didn't know anything about money, even though I had worked at a bank, even though I'd grown up wanting to be an accountant. Just had this kind of pride that I got this money thing figured out in real so Gav's a complete mess. Meanwhile, she was kind of in a similar.

I was a mess, too, but I'm. I still am. Like, I don't know that much about money. Like, it. It's kind of funny that I talk about finances, because honestly, I don't really know that much.

Well, you don't know what, like, a backdoor, you know, conversion Ira is or something like that?

Like, that's a thing.

Yeah.

I've never even heard of that. So, yes, I'm not nearly into the weeds as much as he is. Right. Yeah, but. But, yeah, so I. When we got married, I was kind of like, he.

He.

He had said, okay, I want to get my finances in order. And I said, great, I want my finances in order, too, but I don't want to do any of the work, so can you just do it for me? And he said, okay.

So, yeah, I was about two months ahead of her. And so we both get married, and we both are financial messes, have all this credit card debt and whatever, all this stuff kind of piled together. And one of the good things that we did is we said, all right, this is no longer our individual debt. Like, you know, two become one. And this is our debt together. You know, we kind of, you know, attacked it together. And I think that was a smart move that we made. One of the few at that phase.

But.

But from that point, you know, like, we had some hard moments because, yeah, I kind of laid out a budget that I'm like, all right, this makes sense. This can help us get out of debt. But it was really hard, and it was a big shift for her because she had gone from living with their parents, you know, you know, having a job, having very few bills, and still, like, overspending.

Yeah, completely overspending.

And so then getting married to me, and now we got to take all that money and use it to pay bills and stuff. Now it's like, there's, like, no. There's no money to go shopping. There's no money, like, to do anything because we're trying to dig out of debt. And so, yeah, so we definitely had some moments where there were some tears and some.

Yeah, just. Just a couple.

Just a couple.

You know, I. I know one of your passions, you know, in writing this book and doing what you do is. Is you can relate to people and how money is always an argument. And, you know, before we actually started this podcast, we said to you guys, like, in. In the beginning of our marriage, especially those first, like, really five to 10 years, I would say money. It kept on coming up. Like, it would bubble up, and it would be that thing that. That. I mean, we're not big arguers anyway, but, like, it would be that. That thing that sometimes it would cause friction.

Tension.

Yeah.

Tension. Yes. And. And I know that you guys want to help couples, and I love how. How it says this. It says you want to help it go from an argument to something that a couple can actually enjoy managing together. And what would you say in making that transition? What would be some initial steps that a couple should take?

Yeah, I mean, I think for us.

Yeah.

Like, that's what. That's what's fascinating to me when I look back, look at her and look at how she has transformed. I mean, because we actually have good money conversations, we actually enjoy talking about our money and our future and. Which is so fascinating coming from where you are, right?

Oh, absolutely. Because, you know, I really didn't want to talk about it at all. I kind of just wanted to have him give me a plan, and I could stick with the plan if it was already set up and organized for me. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

But I didn't want to have to figure anything out. But as we went on in our marriage, I have this thing called. We call it magic money. Well, I call it magic money. And I tell Bob, I'm like, where are you getting the money for that? Because he would show me our budget. I knew what was there, because I can stick to the plan as long as it's there. And he'd be like, well, I want to take this trip. Or he'd say, I want to do whatever. I want to buy this big, expensive, you know, some sort of tool or something. And I'd go, where are you getting that money? And he's like, well. And I'm like, can I have some of that magic money? Because there's stuff that I want to buy. And I think that's where I was coming from. That's what pulled me in, is I was like, okay, he's finding money for the things that he wants because he's got it in savings. He's got it, you know.

Well, yeah, And I think that the thing to take from that was that you didn't. Like, I wanted you to know everything that was going on, but you didn't want to.

It's true.

And that was part of what got you interested. Like, I need. I want to understand more of what's going on. But yeah. But anyway, kind of pulling this back to your original question, what I would Suggest one thing that I think just helped us a lot and helped you a lot was casting the vision for where we wanted to go in our marriage, like, financially and, like, what God had for us and what we were dreaming about with God together. Like, once I could do that with her, you know, because then it gets beyond, like, just this boring old budget that means that I can only spend this much on this thing and all this stuff. But it becomes what are the things that God has placed in our heart that we want to do together that we feel like he's calling us and driving us towards? And once we kind of did that and got that in front of her, then the numbers and the math, like, starts to make a little bit more sense. It's a. It's a means to an end. And then you were able to get on board a little bit easier, right?

Yeah. And it. It also, like, you would just pull me in very gently. So I would say, I want money to get to buy this, so let's go find it in the magic money. And he would go, okay, let's look at it and tell me where you want to take it from.

Well, yeah, look at our budget as a whole. It's like, all right. Yeah. So. All right, so where do we need to pull it from? Like, because again, because it's pulling you back to, all right, these are the actual numbers.

Right.

And what are we going to do?

Which was something I needed. And I think that got us on the same page to where I. Because it would be my tendency to just say, well, I just want it, so just give it to me. Give me the money to buy it. And once he would say, okay, let's figure it out together. Like, I want to give this to you. Let's figure it out together. And then I'd go, oh, never mind. I'll just wait. Can we just start saving for it?

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But that really helped me because my whole problem was that I just wasn't looking at anything. I had no idea what was going on. Really?

Yeah.

Right.

No, it's, it's, it's so, it's great. I mean, how, I think so many couples can, can relate to that journey. But the difference is like, most couples just kind of stay stuck, right? They stay stuck. And you guys found that, that, that place of breakthrough where you finally, you know, you got on the same page, you developed. And really your story is remarkable and not only in just the, the success of it, but in how you guys have embodied generosity throughout. You know, you, you gave away over a million dollars before he turned 40, which is just incredible. We're going to talk more specifically about that in the, in kind of the, the bonus content in the book. There's a great story you share in the chapters called like, Everything I thought about giving was wrong. And this guest speaker came to your church and he was just, he was teaching on giving, but he was like angry and grumpy the whole time. And it was really legalistic and really furrowed brow angry. And I think a lot of us grew up, especially those of us grew up in the church where maybe like, we see giving in that kind of way. Like, it's, it's. The Bible says it's more joyful to give than to receive, but, but we weren't taught it that way. It was just like, it's just this thing you got to do and you're going to hate every second of it. But you guys have really tapped in to the biblical plan for joy and your giving and kind of. What was, what was that story like? What were those conversations like when you started, I don't know, just shifting to that kind of radical generosity? I'd love to hear more about that.

Yeah, yeah. But no, I mean, I think what you're hitting on is absolutely right. Like, it's, it's sad to me that giving has such a negative connotation throughout so much of the church, because I think it's one of the greatest joys and adventures that God invites us on, you know, and I, because I like that, that verse you're talking about with Jesus saying that it's more blessed to give than to receive. Like, for so long I thought that, that he's just wrong. Like, he doesn't get it. Like, Jesus is wrong on this, you know, like he, he never got any good gifts or something. Like, but, but now, like, we've gotten to that point where it's like, all right, I get it. Like, I really do. Because our greatest joys in life are some of the things that we get to participate in, through our generosity. And so, yeah, anyway, back to us and kind of how we got through this because like you said, like, up with some not great examples of generosity. You know, we both have some stories of, you know, just not a rough start in terms of just getting a really good and clear, accurate picture of what generosity should be. And so we had to work through a lot of this. But for some reason, you know, it was just the way God wired us. We both had this desire from, from those early days of sitting in the car at the gas station. Like one of the things we talk about and dream about was being able to give away millions of dollars. And we, at that point, we're very, very unlikely candidates. It just didn't make any sense. We were both basically entry level positions, had, you know, not much hope in our careers of ever actually making any money. But, you know, it's one of those things that we're on a journey and we've hit some mile markers and hopefully have a lot more to go. And, and I think God loves to use the, you know, foolish things to confound the wise. But yeah, but anyway, in our case, yeah, like, I mean, I don't know, what do you think, like, helped us along?

I mean, I think it was a process. Like we, we both had this desire. So one of the things we did is we kind of made it a priority. So we have a very detailed budget. We had that since our, you know, very, very beginning of our marriage because we were trying to get out of debt. Like Bob, Bob's the spreadsheet guy.

Spreadsheets.

So, so what we, what he ended up doing was creating a category specific specifically for giving. And that honestly took so much pressure off of. Are we gonna be able to buy our groceries or should we give this person a birthday gift?

Yeah, this was big. Yeah, because most people manage their money like it's all one big bucket. It's all their money just sitting in their checking account, you know, And I did this for many, many years. And so what happens is now a giving need is presented, an opportunity is presented. There's something where it's like, oh, I'd love to give to that, but I got to buy groceries next week. And so what do I do? Do I give that or buy groceries? You know, and so what we did was we created this account that we call seed account. And basically every month, the beginning of the month, we funnel money over there and it's specifically for giving to these instances that come up. And it made it, it made giving so Fun. It made it so much easier because the money sitting there waiting to be spent, and it's like spending someone else's money.

Yeah.

And so it was such a game changer for us.

And I remember one month we looked in our budget, and it was like we were. We had spent almost all of our money in every category. We were about to get paid, but we had pretty much drained everything except for our seed account. Had, like, a thousand dollars in it.

Okay.

You know, we would have spent that thousand dollars.

There's no way it would have been there.

But a friend of ours had a baby, and Bob was like, we have so much money in seed. Let's get them a meal. But then let's make them a gift basket and put a bunch of our favorite things in there. Stuff that they'll need that will help them out as they're, you know, in their early days of having this newborn baby, which anyone with a kid can tell you, it's. It's intense those first few months, really.

Our producer is waving back here with the newborn at home.

Yeah, exactly.

Hang in there.

Yes.

So.

But it was. And so we. We just brought it to them, and they were like, oh, my gosh. Like, they were so fluent. But it made it so fun for us because they didn't ask us to do that. We were just going to give them a meal as far as they were concerned. And so all this other stuff was just an extra bonus that made it so much fun to give, because, again, it's not our money, but we're just. We're spending somebody else's money. I mean. Yeah, it was just really fun, and it blessed them and it blessed us.

Oh, that's. It's so good.

I love it so much. You know, I love this quote from your book. It says, living a truly rich life will require both natural steps and God's supernatural power. You know, we found that most people lean to one or the other of those. You know, it's like leaning all on God's supernatural power or leaning all on just what they can do in the natural. And, you know, what do you say to the couple where maybe they're not on the same page with this? Like, one of them is leaning towards doing the natural things that are within their power, and then the other one's like, no, no, let's just let God handle it. How can they. How can they reconcile that and get on the same page and really consider both of those things?

Yeah, well, honestly, I think it's great having opposing views, because I think you help each other out, then you balance.

Each other a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

So it's.

If they need to find that point of unity.

Right. If they can see the value in each other and how each other is doing things, then they can really push each other forward because then they can encourage each other in. In both sides. Honestly, this was.

This has been really big for us. I mean, you know, and this goes a little bit beyond what you're talking about in the question, but I think it applies where, you know, Linda and I are very different with how we. Our natural inclinations towards managing money. And. And I, for the longest time, just thought I was right, you know, because it's like, money is a math problem. Like, I'm right. This is the way it should be.

And, like, honestly, I just thought he was right, too, because, I don't know. I'm not very good at math. And so I just thought, well, Bob's just right. And so I kind of leaned on him for a lot of that.

Yeah. But God humbled me and, like, showed me that, listen, I designed her with intentionality. I put her in this marriage with you. Like, she's not wrong. Like, you both have different things to add and to bring to this equation. It's like, oh, wow. You know, it's been so helpful for me, like, since he's helped me humble myself and see that, wow, she has value to add to this, even though it might not make mathematical sense. Like, she brings a component that is going to allow me and has allowed me to enjoy my life so much more. Like, if it weren't for her, like, I would end up squirreling so much money away in retirement, end up having all this money there, and not enjoy my life up to that point. And she's brought such a healthy balance to our marriage. But had I not stepped back to acknowledge and see that, it's possible that maybe she has something to add. Like, I would have missed on all of that.

Sure.

And that's such a great picture for marriage in general. I mean, I just love that. And to see in your marriage, even through the book, some of the stories of giving, even to each other, the best picture in the whole book is a picture of a laptop giving that story. It was such a great picture of just finding ways to make each other smile. And I think when you can do that in marriage, find ways to make each other smile and really, like they said, realize that God put you together and you both have so much to add and. And you've got to lean on each other and listen to each other and respect each other.

Yeah.

And when you both do that, and you'll do it through the lens of applying God's principles to what, what you're doing, it's just amazing how you can soar in every part of your marriage, including your finances.

Absolutely. And before we kind of move over to our bonus content with our premium listeners, and just as a little side note as to the listeners and the people watching on YouTube, if you're not currently part of our premium subscribers, you can do that. You can actually do that by going to nakedmarriage.supercast.com that's also going to probably be in the show notes and you can join for, for $5 a month, you guys. And you're going to get special content from amazing people just like the two you're listening to and watching today. And I, I can't wait to talk about the conversation we're going to have there. But before we get to that, I want to ask you guys this one thing just to, to really give practical advice to our listeners and make it very simple for them. Like, what's one simple thing that they can start doing today to bring more peace kind of into their, into their financial situation?

Yeah, I think, and there'll be some people who are doing this, but there's a lot who aren't doing it. I think the, the simplest thing that you can do today to just start making is, is paying attention to where you're spending your money. This is something that is so overlooked, and it's such a huge opportunity for just making a big, practical step forward in your money. So, for example, you know, we all know this. Like, if you go to a nutritionist, like, they'll say, all right, start writing down everything you eat. And if you've ever done this, you know, it's like instantly, just by writing it down, you start eating better.

Yes.

And it's the exact same way with our money, like, when we are paying attention to what we're doing. So you can do this by writing down everything you spend. Some people have tried this. I mean, I've seen people who've saved 50% one month to the next without even trying to spend less money simply by writing everything down. And so this absolutely works. But even if you're not the write down on paper type of person, like get an app like mint.com, personal capital.com.

Both of them are completely free.

You can plug in your credit card, bank account information, see exactly where you've been spending money. The Last couple of months, see if the $500 that you think you spend on groceries is accurate or not. Because, you know, newsflash, it's probably not if you're not paying attention, because almost everybody, you know, underestimates how much they're spending. And that will allow you to identify some of these problem spots. We talked to one couple we were coaching who said that, you know, they were about to sell their house. They were in such a kind of difficult and tight position. And we said, all right, how much do you guys spend eating out? And they're like about $200 or something. And like, all right, go do this exercise. Plug into personal capital. Let me know. Report back. They said, we were, we spent $800 last month eating out. Like they were that far off.

Yeah.

And they were about to sell their house. And it's like, well, you might not need to sell your house. Maybe you just cut back on eating out, you know, but they had no idea. So point is, simple thing that a lot of people can take advantage of and see a big impact.

Yeah, I love that. I would also add to that, just start praying together about your finances. If this is something in your marriage that is a point of contention, I would just say just three minutes before you turn on Netflix for the evening. You know what I mean? Just sit there and just so good. Ask the Lord for help so that your, your fighting would stop, that you would get on the same page, that you would understand each other's viewpoint. And I mean, even just speaking scripture over your situation, I think would be something easy that you can start like today.

Yep.

Man, so good.

That is so good, guys. This has been a treasure and a treat for the premium podcast subscriber. Stick around because I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask them their, their some of their best investing advice. So this could make you a billion dollars to stick around.

Let's do it.

So I can't wait. Before we go though, for those who are going to be tuning out here, I want to connect with you guys. First off, I highly recommend this book. Check it out. Simple money rich life. Achieve true financial freedom and design a life of eternal impact. Available wherever books are sold. But tell us where else we can find you guys online for those that want to stay connected to what you're doing.

Yeah, so you know, we're seedtime.coms e d t I-m e dot com. We're at seedtime on all the social platforms. We have a podcast too, seedtime Money. So yeah, anywhere. Come say hi love to connect anyone who wants to.

Man, you guys are such a gift, and this has been pure gold. But we're not through yet. So, guys, for. For the premium podcast subscribers, and by the way, those who subscribe, it's that five bucks a month goes directly to support the Ministry of Exo Marriage, which is a 501c3 nonprofit Christian ministry. You're helping us create more resources to help more people. And you're getting bonuses, too, like exclusive content, ad free content and all that. So thank you. And for those who are listening and watching today, thank you guys so much for tuning in. God bless. We will see you next time.