Finding Your Calling With Gabe and Rebekah Lyons

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We are so thrilled about the guests that we have today. And Gabe and Rebecca Lyons have been just leaders globally for the body of Christ in so many ways for so long, and yet they still look so young. Which I'm trying to do the math because it seems like they've been. They've been leading and they've been like just these amazing thought leaders for as long as I can remember, and yet they both still look 25. I don't understand how that works and. But I'm believing the math works because it does. Truly, guys, we're so thankful for you. We're so thankful that you're here. Before we dive in, I just want to say thank you not only for what you've done with Q, with your books, with everything you've done to be just encouragers on a global scale for the body of Christ and the culture at large, but also thank you for being here on the Naked Nourish podcast. We really appreciate you.

Well, thank you, guys. We love that we get to have this conversation with you. And I can answer that question about looking younger if you marry someone who tends to just keep looking young. I tell her this every day. Looks more beautiful today than she did when we met. That makes me feel young, at least.

I just dress. I wear a baseball cap and sweats, and then I look like my kids, basically.

Oh, well, I love it, you guys. You guys are so great. You know, for those. I know a lot of our audience is totally familiar with you guys, but just for those who aren't or maybe just don't know your story, can you give us kind of a little bit about how you all met? We would love to hear that story.

Well, that's a fun story. We met in college in Virginia. I grew up in Florida. He grew up in Virginia. So for him it was local. But we met the first day of your freshman year. I was older. I am still older. I was then, and I am now nine months older. So I was starting my sophomore year when you.

But did you know, and this is for everybody, that you are younger now than you are now.

Yeah.

All Right, I'll let that sink in.

So we were introduced by two people. Mutual friends. We were great friends actually for the next three years. I wound up getting engaged to somebody else. He almost proposed to somebody else. We were always friends in like the same circle of friends, but we just connected. But never were like, this is the person. And then three years later, God really saw fit. It's a much longer story. We will spare you, but. But God saw fit to kind of give us both clarity that we were in relationships, that we were not going to marry. And then we were friends again for a long time before our friends were like, I think you guys might be a little more than friends. But we didn't wanna rebound with one another either. So we kinda like milked that one for as long as possible.

What was fun is literally last night I had the idea to pull out some old videos from college where we captured that season. And we haven't watched those probably since they happened. And we were both just dying, laughing and really enjoying, like being able to watch our college selves have these conversations and have fun together. And anybody listening. If you have some old footage you haven't watched in a while, I'd encourage it because it keeps reminding you of when you fell in love and why.

You fell in love.

It reminded me of what a romantic he was and can still be.

Wait, can't wait. What.

Videos was like how he and two other guys, this like Valentine's dinner with rose petals on the table and chicken cordon bleu. And these were like 20 year olds. And I was like, babe, that was a romantic dinner. You can follow a recipe and you can make it from scratch. You might need a couple guys to help you out, but it was really, really fun.

That's great.

I love that. We're college sweethearts too, so we relate to you in that way.

I love it. I know. I was having so many beautiful, beautiful flashbacks and she still looks the same as she did in college and I now, you know, look like I could be her grandpa. I'm not sure how that works. I feel the same way.

No, not at all.

Well, I love it. I love how you guys met and tell us about your family. I know you guys have four kids. We also have four kids.

Yeah, we're actually like age wise, it's even pretty close, like if I'm doing the math right again. So like ours, ours are, you know, at the time this is releasing, just turning 17, just turning 15, 10 and 7.

Yes.

So that's like, if I understand right, generally in the same ballpark is, yeah.

We have a 21 year old Cade, 18 year old Pierce, 19 now.

Yeah, sorry.

They had a birthday and then 16 year old daughter and then 8 year old daughter. So two boys, two girls mostly, almost moving towards launch. And then we have Joy, who's eight in second grade. Gonna take a while to launch.

Yeah. At mid-40s, early to mid-40s, we decided that we were three years from empty nesting and instead we went back to kindergarten by adopting Joy. So we are all over the map. And for those who aren't aware, our oldest has a Down syndrome diagnosis and then we wound up adopting Joy and brought her home from China three years ago, also with a Down syndrome diagnosis. So we say that they are our bookends and we say that, you know, with fear and trembling before God, like we're done, right? Like we're good.

Yes, Lord, yes. Well, and what you guys share about your family journey really is inspiring. I listened to a talk you did recently, I think it was called Two Callings under the Same Roof. And you kind of told some of the origin story of, you know, starting back when Cade was born and how God used that beautiful blessing in him to sort of redirect the plan and path you had for yourselves to go and start business and do things a certain way to have to slow down in that season and then how that really became a turning point for you and if you could maybe revisit that part of the story just a little bit for our listeners. I thought it was beautifully profound, just kind of how you shared some of what you were learning in that season where things weren't going as you planned. And in a moment you realize, okay, God has a different plan and we're trusting that his plan is better than ours. And how, you know, all the blessings and adjustments that have followed since then.

Yeah, we were just a few years into marriage and Rebecca was pregnant. And when Cade, our son, was born and had this down syndrome diagnosis, it definitely threw us because he was our firstborn. Any of the early signs weren't there. So we were thrown into that early marriage. You know, I guess it felt like a crisis at the time because we hadn't planned for it or expected it and didn't quite know where it would lead. But in our story, God used it to just recenter our calling and our mission in the world and really help us become much more in touch with what's important to him. I was in a career that was kind of moving up and to the right and good success by Anybody's measure, I would imagine. And friends that couldn't imagine, I would leave that. But God used, and this is, I think what you're referring to, God used the birth of cave to reignite just mission in my heart for his purposes in the world, for my life, which meant I left that post. And we ended up launching our own organization called Q Ideas that now we've been leading for, you know, almost 20 years. And God used that as a catalyst. And so sometimes we say, you know, you're pursuing, maybe you're calling, you know what your calling is and you're pursuing it. And we encourage people to find that assignment from God. But sometimes that assignment just shows up like you didn't ask for it, you didn't think it was part of your future. But God puts something in front of you and the calling finds you. And so that's been the case around this area of special needs, down syndrome, really helping more and more people become aware of these beautiful children and the life giving force that they are in the world and a world that wants to eliminate them. And so that's just become another part of calling and assignment for us.

And we believe that calling is where your talents and your burdens collide. And talents are those birthright gifts that God gives you in the womb when he knits you. But the burdens really don't unfold until you walk through suffering or you walk through the things that break your heart. And so burdens are very personal. And I think burdens kind of look different in different seasons of life. And so when Cade was born, I was 26, we were still kids and we had no idea how to be parents, much less how to navigate this unknown journey as well for Cade. And I'll never forget driving back to the hospital, it took about a week for that genetic testing to come back positive. And they made us leave the hospital after day four. And I'm like, wait a minute, our child is still in the hospital. Because we were at that time still fighting for his life. He didn't grow that last trimester, he was only £4 and a half pounds full term. And so I just remember just going like this, you know, like open handed back, back to the hospital, like God, we have no idea. We are going rogue. And we didn't know before, but we really don't know. And I think that surrendered place is so beautiful when you'll accept it and live into it because God has a holy imagination for where he's taking us. And it's really up to us to decide if we want to fully buy into that. And we didn't know even then until months following that God was really leading us away from something towards something else. But once we saw glimpses of that, it was just confirmation after confirmation. And I think that's what the faith journey looks like.

I love that. And, you know, we hear from so many people in the work we do with marriages, from so many people who have special needs children. And a lot of times the questions are. And I'm sure, I know you guys hear from even more than we do, but people often ask, you know, there are unique challenges that come with raising special needs children. And sometimes those challenges are finding time to invest in your marriage. I'd love if you guys could share maybe a few practical tips on what has helped you as you've been raising these amazing kids and trying also to still pour into your marriage.

Yeah. I think early on we got really good advice about how critical our relationship would be to the health of our entire family and that we needed to take time for that. And so I'm so thankful we got that advice early because I would say from day one of having even Kate in our life and some special needs and things we weren't even sure he would need, and it felt risky to leave him with my parents or her parents and let them watch him. I think it was nine or ten months into his life that we went away and we went away and took a trip alone. And we desperately needed it and didn't realize how much we needed it. And that began a cadence of every year we try to get away. And sometimes it's one night, it's not a whole trip, but we try to get away if we can, for two or three days. If we can find childcare, nanny, babysitters. We don't have, like, hired help that's always with us.

Yeah.

We try to find adults that we can trust. And I will say what's been eye opening for me is how many couples haven't done that or have gone for years or I was talking to a guy the other day. I mean, four children. It's been 10 years since him and his wife got away alone. And I'm looking at them like, bro, we will watch your kids this weekend. You have got to do this. You don't realize. You just don't realize what you're missing and the perspective you're lacking when you stay in that every day and you're not having extended time away. I think date nights are important and great and we get plenty of time where we can just one on one have conversation. But there's something about getting. Getting out of the responsibility zone long enough to start to think more clearly. And so we encourage every couple. You've got to do this. I don't care if it's camping for one night, Whatever you have to do, find a friend that'll take care of the kids, but get that time away.

Yeah, I found that there were certain years, obviously, where we were just in stress zone because we still had more offspring after Cade. Every two years we were having another child and then another child. And yet Cade didn't walk till he was three. So he and his brother were neck and neck. Like, he still beat out his younger brother of two years by about three weeks because he realized that he needed to get moving. But it definitely, in those early years, felt like we were all hands on deck. And sometimes that couple days away was a chance to come up for air and have a complete sentence and an uninterrupted conversation. And that was really good. But we also found, as we kept pursuing this years later, that it. If our marriage was unhealthy in that year where we were just in survival mode, which we. At 25 years this year, we've had plenty of years in survival mode. And so that week or that few days would be kind of our like, oh, there you are. And sometimes that's not the best. Right? Because then when you get those longer conversations, you're like, then all the feelings that you maybe ignored or kind of put under the rug started to come out. And so we decided, like, let's not make that one week, the week where we really decide we need counseling. Let's actually work on the counseling prior to the trip so that when we actually get away, we can play and we can enjoy one another. So that's one thing we learned the hard way when some of those years really were like a deep dive. And then going forward, we're like, let's be more proactive throughout the year with making sure that our marriage is intact in a way that we're connected so that when we finally get a chance to travel, it's fun.

That's great advice. I've never heard someone put it that way, but that is really, really good advice.

Yeah, that's solid, guys. Whoever. If you're listening back in the old day, I would say rewind. I don't think the young kids don't. They don't rewind anymore. Skip back. Skip back on that fancy device. Skip back and re. Listen to that whole big clip. Because that's gold, guys. We talk about it a lot, but you can't hear that message enough. You've got to invest in time alone together. And the busier you are, the more important that is for your marriage, the harder it is. But the more important it is to find childcare, to get it on the calendar, to get away together just to play and just to relax and unwind and reconnect as husband and wife. Not just mom and dad talking about kid logistics, but as best friends and partners and lovers and all of it.

And having that counseling leading up. I love that because like you said, you just need that time just to blow off steam, to play, to just remember that you are a couple. It's like just remember what brought the two of you together. And so I love that. Thank you all so much for sharing that. I want to shift the conversation a little bit. Rebecca, I've been following you a really long time and I love all the things that you have to say with Rhythms of Renewal, your book. And I love how you talked about having your. How did she word it? She said your calling is when your talents and your burden kind of collide. And I know for you, one of your burdens is for mental health and that's also one of my burdens. And I know that you share very openly about your own struggles with. Is it both anxiety and depression or one or the other? I want to make sure I'm not misspeaking.

Yeah. So it really catalyzed through panic attacks. So panic disorder in 2010 and 2011. So that was about 12 years ago. There has been some kind of low hum. I'm like seasonal depression is something that I pay attention to if I'm not active enough outside, like through a long winter. But in general it's more anxiety and panic related with some bouts of depression.

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Visit burlington.com coats for details. Well, can you speak to that? You know, one thing you talk about in your book is, and I love the whole concept of rhythms, and I'd love for you guys to unpack that more. But you specifically talk about having rhythms of input and rhythms of output. And if you could explain that to our audience, I know you don't want to say too much, because those who have not read the book, I want them to get it because it goes into so much more detail. But I would love for you to kind of unpack that for us.

Yeah. Well, as I kind of walked out of that. So that began in New York City. We had just moved there from the suburbs of Atlanta, and we all of a sudden were thrust into midtown Manhattan, where you've got 8 million people in 11 miles. So there was no such thing as personal space. And I realized that my panic attack began on an airplane, but then on trains, planes, elevators, subways, and crowds. So, obviously, if you've been to New York, it's impossible to avoid those things. And the timing, of course, was not lost on me. And I know the Lord knows what, like, what he, you know, in his appointed time, there was something for me to learn in that season. And truly, it was for me to get to the end of myself because I kind of would will my way through things in life. And New York just kind of flatlined me. And as a result, I just got desperate crying out for God. And I did experience kind of a rescue moment in 2011 where I just felt, like, supernaturally filled with his peace. And it just stopped. Like, it just stopped in the middle of the panic attack for that moment. But what I learned coming out of that is that we can have these kind of moments where we really encounter God and His goodness and his kindness and his mercy. He does rescue us, but he still, when he pulls us out of that pit or whatever that valley looks like, we still actually have to have spiritual formation in our lives to not only get free, but actually run free or walk free or stay free or maintain whatever level of commitment to what he's done for us. And so I remember leaving the city for a couple months, writing the first book called Free Fall to Fly, coming back in the city, and having to get back on a train to go, like, down to the depths of the Earth, when you go between burrows, it's several floors underground. And so I was descending, and that muscle memory of panic triggered. And all of a sudden, I start to feel that same anxiety. And so I got through that one subway ride, came back to the surface in Long Island City, and I just said, God, I wrote in my journal that day in 2012, I want to have rhythms of renewal in my. So that I'm actually ordering my life in a way that's committed out of the discipline and discipleship of you to emotional health. I don't want it to just be an idea and something and a theory that we talk about. I want to live it, and I want to be an embodied practice of it. And so that took me about a year before I put it in a book, because I needed to know if it really worked. But it really was around the two input rhythms of rest and restore and the two output rhythms of connect and create. And that rest rhythm is our inner life. It's really, truly like, am I okay? Are God and I okay? It's all about quieting and silencing the noise, getting off tech, having routines for deep sleep. How are we cultivating a morning routine and that restore rhythm? Therefore, if the rest is our inner life or our spiritual life, then the restore is our physical life. And the hope here is that we do move our bodies. And scripture is so clear about present your bodies as a living sacrifice. And that, again, isn't just a metaphor. It's really real. It's like your actual bodies that God knit together. Present it as a sacrifice to him, join him in stewarding that body, taking care of it, all of those things. And then finally, if those things are being filled up, then hopefully you have something to offer. Then at that point, you've been restored, you have those inputs so that you can then go out into the output rhythms, which are connect and create and connect is obviously all about our relationships, which is exactly what you guys focus on every week on this podcast. And truly being vulnerable. Confession, repentance, forgiveness, all of those things that can be repaired in relationship. Just like trauma happens in relationship, it can also be healed in relationship. And then finally, the create rhythm is the one that we were just talking about with calling, because that's really your vocational health. And. And when you are rested and your body is strong and your relationships are healed, then all of a sudden you can run. You can run the race with collaboration and with your spouse or your teams or your friendships, and there's a joy in doing what you love with the people you love. So that's kind of the four rhythms. Sorry, that was a long, long window.

And it's so good, but also very easy to grasp and taking it one by one, trying to. To they build on another. And I love that. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Yeah, that is. That is just pure, pure gold. And thank you again for sharing that. In fact, like in the. In the bonus content, which we'll do in just a bit for our premium subscribers, I want to ask how those rhythms apply specifically to marriage and how, like, in the busyness of life, because you two are both so productive in so many ways, you know, but so busy with your work, with your calling, with your kids, with all these things, how you consistently reconnect and make time for each other and make adjustments through every season of life. But before we get there, I want to invite our listeners to connect with you guys at your upcoming culture Summit, because the events that you've led through the years have really helped shape conversation for culture and for the church. And folks who have not yet connected to your content or to your events or to those conversations, I just feel like they're. They're missing out. And so the timing of this podcast, I love the timing of it, because right as you guys are listening to this and watching this, if you're listening to it as it's new, in just a couple weeks, their biggest event of the year is happening. So, Gabe, would you tell us the vision behind the summit that's happening and what folks can expect over those two days? Whether they come live, if seats are available, but certainly they come virtually with 25,000 others from all over the world. What can they expect? And how can folks get in on it?

Yeah, thank you for asking about that. April 28th and 29th. So just around the corner, you know, like you said, tens of thousands of people, and it's leaders, it's people in business, media, entertainment, education, teachers, parents, anybody who's a believer that's concerned about how do we faithfully navigate and discern the culture that's in front of us and the conversations that are coming to us. And you don't have to look far for those conversations, whether it's with your children, your spouse, your friends, your community, your church. And what we try to do every year is look at the year ahead and say, how do we prepare you best to engage those conversations thoughtfully, be curious about them, think well, be informed, but then also find the good like and how we're going to get along with people who might disagree. So we're dealing with topics, everything from technology and the way that's obviously a big part of our lives. How do we, how do we remain human in the midst of so much onslaught of just tech that's all around us? And what are the virtues of being human? We talk about some of those big concepts, but then also practically, how do we think about finances in the midst of inflation? How do we think about war and the way Christians ought to think about war and if it's just or not just. And we get into those kind of very real conversations that everybody's dealing with in their life, but you don't always have time at church to think about it or talk about it. And, and so we have found now after 16 years that it creates a lot of great conversations. And so people, it is sold out in person where we do it in Nashville, but we now broadcast it. We'll have virtual people hosting watch parties in their home over the course of a day or two, people hosting in their churches. So you can learn about it@qidas.org 2022. And I know through you guys, you've been willing to make it available to people and they can even get a discount as well. So I know we can follow up with more information on that with the code. But I just think it's the place to go in the next couple of weeks. If you're one of those people feeling a bit confused or the chaos of culture has you in a bit of a fog and it's not clear right now what does it mean to be faithful. I think you're going to be so encouraged. Our theme is called Signs of Life. And the reason it is is we know much around us looks like death and there's a lot of despair and there's a lot of news headlines that could make you feel depressed. The reality is crisis breaking through in so many spaces if we have eyes to see. And we're going to shine a light on that and hopefully encourage people to see how they can be a part of that in the year ahead.

The conversations you guys are leading are more important now than ever. I mean, just with all of, just the cultural complexity that we're facing as a world, as a country, globally. And I'm just so excited to see what's going to happen as a result of two days of very, very important, timely conversations led, not led by you, and then also led by some speakers that are just world class. The teams you guys put together for these events are just always, always a world class faculty. And so, yeah, we'll have.

Malcolm Gladwell will be with us this year, which he's obviously someone a lot of people listen to and think about. So the people that we try to encourage, they're not always the speakers a lot of people have heard of, but they're usually the most expert in a category that would help you think well about something. And so we've always tried to put the topic first and then go find who's the most informed person that can help us think well about this. And that's been our approach, and I think people have appreciated that.

Yeah. And another reason I think it's powerful for me, I feel like I go every year as a student. It's kind of like my master's degree every year, because I want to make sure that these conversations are at a household level. These conversations felt optional a decade ago, definitely two decades ago for the church. It was kind of like culture was doing its thing, and the church was over here in another room. And some of the topics we talk about are highly controversial. They definitely aren't really raised on a Sunday morning. And yet those conversations are now in our own homes. Our children are navigating these conversations, and they're looking to parents and going, what. What does God have to say about this? What does he have to say about sexuality, about gender, about transhumanism, about, you know, you go down the list and we're like, wait, what does that mean again? And we're googling the definition, and we're trying to, like, have the best answer we can possibly have. But. But if we can actually just get this to kind of a street level of going, nothing's off limits. Right. If we as parents can kind of be like, we. No conversation, no question is a bad question, then we personally have got to be informed on what's going on from a biblical lens, how our faith intersects with it, and how we can hold space. I really feel convicted about us holding space for people that we just. We're going to disagree and we're going to love well, and we're going to, like, hold that tension beautifully, because I believe, as God's call, that's our mandate.

Yep.

That's so good. I mean, and we've been impacted. I feel like, in many ways, you know, you guys have been forerunners and pioneers in the space of leading those conversations that no one else was having. And. And we're one of the beneficiaries even on this podcast. And the work we do to talk about some things that maybe were taboo to discuss from a stage or from a microphone a decade ago, two decades ago. And the work that you guys have done to kind of help move the church forward in just the necessity of having these conversations has opened the minds of so many folks within the body of Christ. And then it's helped people like us and countless others who are kind of doing some of the same work that you've made possible through the courageous work you've continued to do to open up doors. And so I just want to thank you for the work that you're doing and encourage all of you who are listening right now to connect with the lions. So again, Qidas.org2022 Specifically, if you want to be part of the summit coming up in just less than a few weeks at this point. And then if you're not following the Lions already, social media, or if you just want to connect with what they're doing, again, it's Gabe and Rebecca Lyons. And if you're like me and you're terrible at spelling, that's G, A, B, E and R, E, B, E, K, A, H, L, Y, O, N, S. I think I got that right. With no two cards at all.

Yes, I grown up spelling my name out.

Well, I never won a spelling bee. So when I get his spelling right without any help from Siri, I feel pretty good about myself.

That's right.

Well, listeners, listen, this conversation isn't over yet. For our premium podcast subscribers, the final question you can access through that premium podcast app. And if you're not yet a premium subscriber, you can do that@nakedmarriage.simplecast.com and supercast. Spelling the names right was as far as I was going to get.

Simplecast sounds really good.

Simplecast is a thing, but it's not our thing.

It's not.

So you can go there and it's going to do you no good. But sorry, no. See, without Ashley friends, basically, like, I would be a complete wreck. I just.

We help each other out, that's for sure. So nakedmarriage super cast.

Super cast. We're not just simple, we're super. We're simple. I'm simple, she's super.

That is not true.

Not true.

But that way they can become members and you get, you know, not only the continuation of this amazing conversation with the Lions, but we also have other exclusive content on there. So follow us over there. Join us.

So everything's ad free over there and you get bonus content. But most importantly, it's like five bucks a month and all that directly goes back into supporting the ministry EXO Marriage is a 501c3 nonprofit Christian ministry. And that support helps a lot in creating more resources that are going to help more people. So check that out and follow and support the work that the Lions are doing. They are a gift to the kingdom, they're a gift to the world. And, and you will be blessed by connecting to the content that they create and to the movements that they're part of shaping. And so, Gabe and Rebecca, thank you for all you're doing and thank you again for being here.

Well, before we go, I just wanted to say thank you guys the same, I mean, what you're doing for marriage. I mean, we are obviously, we know marriage is not an easy thing. It's hard fought. It's worth every bit of it. And we're just so blessed by you guys showing up every week in people's earbuds and just, or AirPods or whatever you call it and just really just keeping people going. And so thank you for your work as well.

And I want to add because of the name of this wonderful podcast, Naked Marriage. One of our counselors told us once, when you're having an argument and you're just trying to work through something, the best thing you can do is get naked and try to have that conversation. And you'll find that, that it doesn't get maybe as frustrating or you don't, you, you're looking at each other's eyes, but you're also feeling each other's bodies. And that's going to help you. It's going to help you work through your problem. So I don't know.

That was his advice or you just start laughing.

That'll work.

Exactly. No, I love that. That's a good counselor.

Yeah, that's. That guys, that's gold right there.

See, that was in the middle of.

A fight, you just start taking off your clothes and just see.

Right. I love it. Getting naked in marriage is always a good idea. So I feel like on every level, that's the best possible note to leave it on. So either get naked with your spouse right now or stick around for the premium content where we're gonna have one more question with the line.

That's right.

All right, bye, guys.

By.

Sam.