Is Your Spouse on Their Phone too Much?

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, we are talking about something that I feel like every single one of us is affected by, and that is how to manage screen time, not only for children, which is what we often equate that that phrase with, but really for ourselves as a married couple. And we have the expert on this subject, Mrs. Arlene Pellicane, talking about this today. She's a friend of ours. She's so amazing and Dave's going to tell you more about her.

Yeah, Arlene is. She's a rock star in this world and is just brilliant and is so wise and so fun too. You're going to love this conversation. She's been featured on folks on the family, Wall Street Journal, Fox and Friends, the Today Show. She has been everywhere and she is today where thrilled to have her here on the Naked Marriage Podcast. You're gonna love this conversation. Before we dive in, one quick announcement. We have had new episodes releasing every Monday since the Naked Marriage Podcast started, and we're gonna continue releasing them every Monday. But we've got a new edition and it is called Hump Day. Q and A. Hump Day.

Q and A. Hump Day. Q and A. Oh, yeah.

Every Wednesday. Every hump day. And we hope it's hump day for you in more ways than one. Oh, sweetie, dad jokes all around. Every Wednesday, we're going to do one of our favorite parts of the podcast, the Q and A. And we're going to just do a whole quick episode just answering one of your questions. You guys can submit questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com or you can write us on Instagram aveanashleywillis and tune in every single Wednesday if you're subscribed to this podcast, which you should be, and if you're not hit subscribe every Wednesday. It'll pop up as a new episode for you. And we're so excited to share this with you. It's going to be a lot of fun and. And we're also really excited about today's conversation with Arlene Pellicane, so let's dive in.

Well, Arlene, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are so glad to have you here. And I don't know if you know this, but my first kind of introduction to you is at she Speaks, probably the she Speaks conference that Proverbs 31 puts on just for our listeners and watchers who are such a good conference.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh. So good. And it was probably like five years ago or something. Maybe four or five years ago.

Isn't it amazing how time flies?

I know. And you. This is. This is what session you did, and it helped me so much. I was in the midst of writing my first book, Peace Pirates, and you had a session that was called how to Write a Book While Raising Kids at Home, or something like that.

This is awesome.

I remember all of this.

Do you remember this? I totally remember this.

And I, like, got a front row seat because I was like, I need to learn how to do this, because at the time, I mean, we had a baby, you know, our fourth, I think, was an infant, and we had a bunch of other. You know, we have three other kids that were at different ages, and it was just crazy. And I remember thinking, like, how in the world I have this vision for this book, but how am I actually going to write it and not, like, neglect my children in the process? And you had such. Just practical advice, and I just. I was so grateful for everything you shared there. And then I've since, you know, kept on following you, and I just am so grateful to finally be meeting you virtually here and having you on the podcast. And so I just wanted to. To remind you, that's how. That's how I first got.

That is so much fun. I totally remember that. And look at. See, it worked.

Your session changed our lives.

No, it really did. I still have to know part of the puzzle.

One piece of the big, big puzzle. That's so awesome.

Well, that's one thing I just. I love about you is you're so practical and real, and. And that's why I'm really excited to have you on today to talk about the topic of screen time, because, you know, how this affects marriage, how this affects families. You've written many books, you know, as we said kind of at the beginning of this podcast, but I love, you know, there's not enough resources about this. And my kids tease me because I'm constantly, like, trying to learn more about how to balance this because we have Some gamers in our family and you know, with what the work that we do, we're on social media quite a bit. So we have to remind ourselves it's.

A tough balance, especially when it's work related, you know, because we could justify, oh, this is ministry even, like, I mean, I've got to be online and, and, but we've, we, we've struggled, I would say I've struggled personally just with trying to figure out where that balance is and then especially with our kids. So it's been an issue for us individually, it's been an issue with us in marriage and it's been an issue for us in parenting when our kids are growing up as these digital natives that like just almost don't know how to function if they go very long without a screen. And so we're all in uncharted waters with, with all of this. And so I'm so excited to have this conversation with your expertise to just, I don't know, give us some, some new insights to kind of bring some, some balance and to replace kind of the screen chaos of it just running, ramping out of control with, with something that's more manageable.

Yeah, okay. I love so many things that you just said there because first of all, as you're listening, you know, I struggle with this. You as the listener, you're struggling with this. You know, you've, the, the screen has been like such a help because you're like, oh look, I can work from home, I can work remotely. And then you're like, oh no, I can't turn this off. Like this is always here.

Yes.

You know, and even just speaking, getting really practical right out of the gates, speaking to you, you know, your sons that are gamers that you're talking about. One little paradigm that I learned from Melanie Hempy, she's a nurse and she does screen strong solutions. And she just talked about, think about it like casual, at risk, addicted, and it's this scale and whether it's gaming or whether it's social media or whether it's YouTube videos or TikTok, whatever it is that you're asking yourself, okay, is my child a casual user and at risk user or an addicted user? And once you answer this question, it's not like, okay, great, we did the question, now we can go for the next 10 years. I mean, you're kind of asking this question every week, like you're just assessing like, how's my kid doing? So the casual gamer is the one that's like, hey dad, let's Play a video game on Saturday. It's their quote, unquote, time to bond. You know, hear that all the time. So their play, they play for an hour, and then they stop, and then it's over. And then maybe two weeks go by, and the kid's like, hey, dad, that was fun. Let's play again. That's a casual game gamer. He can play it, he can leave it. He can come back to it, you know, much later. And it's not a big deal. You're at risk. Person is like, okay, I know I'm supposed to play this video game only on Saturdays and Sundays. That's the rule. But every Monday, you know, the kid's like, okay, mom, I did my homework. Okay, dad, like, I'm done with my chores. Can I play the game? You know, Wednesday, can I play my game Friday, can I play my game then? You know, like, okay, if I let this go, like, if I get. Let this cat out of the bag, we are not getting it back. Like, you are seriously at risk, my son. And then you're addicted. You know, we hear that word a lot. And in one way, I don't want you to freak out too much about it, but in the other way, I don't want you to ignore it either. To just think like, oh, yeah, all kids are addicted now. You know, like, no, that's important. That's your kid. So, you know, when we talk about addiction, it's. It's that they're failing in many areas of their life because of this thing. They can't stop. So let's say they're a gamer, but they're not doing their homework anymore. They're not being respectful to you as parents. Your relationship is deteriorating. They used to hang out with their friends. Friends outside, and they play kickball. They don't do that anymore. They used to play an instrument. They're like, I don't want to play the guitar anymore. So you see, like, lots of things are being lost to preserve this thing, you know, and it's just like a drug addiction, like someone needing to have it with them all the time or the assurance that, okay, tomorrow I'm gonna get that. So if you start seeing that, like, my child needs that, then it is time to go. Like, okay, child of mine, we're doing, you know, one thing that I. That I've just started talking about that I think is really fun is, you know, Daniel, he pre. Decides, I will not eat the foods that are offered to me because they were offered to idols, and I will not defile myself. So he asks for that 10 day test, you know, and so that's his 10 day. And so for your kids and for us as parents, that's a good way for us to go. Like, you know what kid of mine? We're going to do a 10 day test and for 10 days we're going to put away this video game. And I also will give something up. I'm going to put away Instagram or whatever it is. And honestly, if you're in business, but you say to your business people, hey guys, I am taking, I'm doing a 10 day challenge with my kid and we for 10 days are stepping off Instagram, Come back and find out who it was harder for. Like, I bet your business people will be like, that's kind of cool. And I'm going to come back in 10 days and find out how they did, you know, so you could almost use it to your advantage. So, so test that if you find that, okay, my child might be addicted to social media, might be addicted to this, you know, have that 10 day test where you say, let's just make sure we're okay without this thing. Because really, as parents, we want them to enter life with, you know, as few encumbrances as possible. And the problem with the phone is they're always going to have it. So let's say your child has a pot problem, you know, marijuana problem or like a vaping problem, they could in time kick that and just completely get rid of that in their life. But a phone problem, a social media problem, a video game problem, they're going to be 40 and in the middle of the night that man is going to be like, oh, I really want to get up and play that game. But I know if I play like I can't stop and then I won't be able to work tomorrow morning, you know, so he's going to struggle with that. So why wouldn't we be overly protective? I would say for sure, birth through 10 to really say you are not going to have any of those kinds of addictions. And the reason I say birth through 10 is if you can win it there, then it's much easier to win it in the teenage years.

Yeah, that's so good.

It's so good. I love your 10 day kind of test that you call it because, and we, we've had moments like that. Like we probably about four years ago did a cross country family trip out west because we live in Georgia and we were like, we want to go see the West. And I Just felt really strongly that we needed to not have any phones and any games on this trip, which sounds like the kiss of death when you're in the car, you know, for that many hours.

Yeah.

And I remember Dave was. He looked at me like, have you lost your mind? But I was like. I was like, do you remember this? I mean, he was like, ashley, are we punishing ourselves? Like, what's going on? And I was like, listen, I think they can do it. Like, I just was like, I want. It was almost like, what you're talking about. Like, I want to. And us, too. Challenge us too. Like, we're not just going to be on our phones while they're not able to do anything. And it was such a sweet time. I mean, it wasn't easy at the beginning especially, but we ended up having just once.

They kind of all detox once they detox.

I mean, it really was. It really was. And because they're so used to. On trips like that, to have something that just, you know, they're just escaping the time with the game or whatever. And not that there's something inherently wrong with that here and there, but I just was like, you know, I want us to really talk. I want us to really bond. And it was. I mean, it was really amazing. And they did it. Like, we. It was almost two weeks that we were on that trip. And, I mean, it was 5,000 miles. Dave drove the whole time. I mean, it was crazy. Like, it honestly sounds like torture. I know people listening are like, what?

But look what you did. And you can all say, we did that. You made this huge memory together.

Exactly. And that's how, as a mom and I know Dave as a dad, we felt so empowered. Like, look, we can do this. You don't have to have a screen every day of your life to feel, you know, you're not really missing out on anything.

Like, every generation before this one, this is how we did it. So this can be done.

It's so true. It's so true. And I think, you know, I would like to. It just kind of my little light bulb moment is like, you know, we need to do that again here and there. I'm not necessarily. Necessarily saying on a trip per se, but just in the. In the week, we actually, with our. Our younger two specifically, I just. I found kind of some of those things you're looking for where. Especially Chandler, our fourth grader, he loves Roblox, the game Roblox. And I know it's wildly popular with elementary schoolers, and it's not in and of itself bad, but I just could tell he wanted it more and more and more. And. And I told Dave, I'm like, you know, we. We need to find kind of that gauge to where he can, you know, we. We can limit that time. And so we've tried different things, but right now it's only on Saturdays can he play it. And he's got to. In order to play that game, he has to kind of do his part throughout the week. And they have chores and things and do good at school and all those different things. But it's been really good. He doesn't love that. But it's been good to limit, right? I mean, it's been good for him.

Absolutely. The boundaries are essential. So if you are hearing like, nobody else does this. Everybody else gets to play this all week long, how come you are so strict? Like, if you are hearing those things, pat yourself on the back, good job. Just stand there and do not sway. You know, there'll be. I always think of it, you know, your kid has their whole life to stare at a screen. Once they graduate out of your home, if they choose to play video games all day long, that's not on you. You know, that they'll have their adult life, but while they're kids, you are in charge. And you can say, like, this brings more peace to the home. Because truly ask yourself, like, okay, what's more peaceful when my kid is on video games every night and we're kind of fighting about, hey, turn that off, and this, you know, or is it more peaceful when it's like, hey, that's not even an option. Go outside and play. Go read a book. Go find something to do. Like, it's way more peaceful the second way. And so you get to enjoy that as a parent, too.

It is. I mean, that's something too. Dave and I both grew up with TVs in our room. And I, till this day, love TV. I do. And I'm not saying it's just bad, but I love tv. And I have a hard time going to sleep without the TV so early on. I know it drives him crazy.

Even though you had a tv, he.

Actually doesn't need the tv.

Hilarious. So she has to have the TV on. And I'm like, I just want to go to sleep.

It's like, well, I go in the other room a lot of times because, like, until I'm tired, and then I'll, you know, so I don't bother him. But, you know, I told Dave, I said, I don't want that for our kids. And so we don't have TVs in.

The room because you're helping, you're helping their future spouses.

Exactly, Exactly. And because of that and because the limit of games. And again, I just want the listeners to know, Dave and I, this has been a trial and error thing we have. Not like it's a constant conversation. It's not like it runs smooth. I don't want to give a false impression here, but that not having the TV and then limiting the games and not having gaming systems in there too.

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They read books a lot more like, it's been great because it's like, well, I guess I'll read a book. And I'm like, I'm so glad.

And that's so much better before bedtime. Like, that's way more calming. It's, it's a better bedtime habit. You know, we've all heard about the blue light and the screens and they can't sleep. They don't have enough melatonin in their body, so they got to turn off the screens. They can have more melatonin and you can very easily engineer that just simply by not, you know, if you can pre decide after listening to this podcast, we're not going to let our kids have screens in their bedrooms overnight. Like, if you just make that fundamental decision, you know, when your kids are younger and tell them when you are a teenager, when you're in high school, this is where, if you are given a device, this is where it will be. It'll be here. It'll never be in your room. And Kind of give them that expectation because A, you want your kids to sleep well as, as you've talked about, right, with your, with your sleep of the TV. B, what's happening at 3 in the morning? You know, someone really texting, like oh my word, I just read this thing. I know Philippians. Rejoice always. It's awesome, you know, like this is not what's happening. So you know, from a sleep perspective, let your child sleep. From moral perspective, what in the world is coming into your child's bedroom between 11:00 o'clock at night and 5:00am in the morning? And then, you know, just that temptation, right, to game, to do pornography, to do any of these things. It's like, so it's like huge. Like how are they going to overcome that temptation if their phone is right like three feet away and the house is quiet and nobody is there? So these, you know, it seems like such a no brainer, like yeah, duh, like take the phone out. But for so many of us it's hard because they'll say, well no, you know, if I don't respond back, they'll think I don't like them and then I'll have problems at school tomorrow. Or you can't take it away or it's my phone, it's my right. But last time I checked, parent, you're paying for that phone. So it is not quote unquote their phone. It is your phone, it is your device, it is your, it's what you gave them. So you can just as easily say, oh, if you would like it, you may pay for it in full and you may pay the monthly bill and then we'll talk, you know. And so these are things you can definitely talk about. But I remember I was talking, giving this advice, you know, of taking the phone out and I was in a Midwestern town and this big dad, strong dad, you know, came up to me and he's like, thank you for saying that because my daughter has her phone in her room and I've been thinking this whole time she shouldn't have it in there. But I've been too afraid to take it away, big man, you know, and he's like, now I'm gonna take it from her at night, you know, and so feel that, that relief, that confidence that I am doing right to my child and I am putting these limits in and I will pre decide. So if you're fortunate enough to be listening to this and you have an elementary school student, you can pre decide, hey, junior high, high school, whatever happens, nothing's happening in the bedroom. And you make that one pre decision, and that's going to help you a lot. Let's say you've got a high schooler. You've already given the phone. You're like, oh, no, I'm five years too late. What do I do? Is that you have this conversation with your child and you say, you know, honey, I've been thinking about it, and I've noticed you've been kind of tired at school. I know you feel like sometimes you don't have enough energy to do all the things that, that you need to do. And I'm thinking a good night's sleep would really help you. I have made a mistake to let you sleep with your phone, tv, whatever it is, tablet. I've made that mistake. It's my fault. And I want to apologize because it's my job as your parent to protect you, and I haven't done a good job in this area. So will you forgive me for doing that? I'm going to collect your phone from now, from now on. Night. Let's try it for a month and see how you feel. Now you. You want to apologize. You don't want to come on like, this is this new rule. So apologize, because most kids, that'll soften it for them. And then, you know, a lot of kids are not going to be like, oh, thank God you listen to the naked marriage podcast. This is really going to help my life. You know, I feel at ease already. You know, they're going to push back, give you the silent treatment, not talk to you for a week. But most likely two or three weeks later, secretly, they'll be like, I like my life so much.

It's better. It's less stress.

They, they will like it. So they won't like it at first, but as they grow into that new rule, they'll be like, oh, secretly, I really like this. But they won't let you know because they have to keep it, that you're the mean parent, that they're the poor child.

That's such good advice. Guys.

We.

We need this kind of pivoting it toward. Toward marriage because it's a different dynamic when it's the spouse. A spouse that kind of feel has the phone addiction.

Yes.

And we can't just, you know, there's not the same dynamic where you're like, you know, young lady, I'm taking that phone.

Will take a spouse of mine.

Yeah.

Tuesdays and Thursdays are your only dates with.

Right. Yeah. We're not going to respond as well. And a lot of people that write us, you know, emails and write us on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, they'll say, you know, my husband, my wife, like, they're, they're obsessed with their phone. They're really private with it. They won't have boundaries. They won't, you know, they won't let me speak into that situation. And this becomes the issue, Right. It's the issue that is creating a wedge between them because they're. That the spouse is just disconnecting and scrolling or, you know, gaming or whatever it is that they're doing. But they're, they're in another world and they don't see the crisis that it is. And so how do we, like, you know, gently or firmly, depending on how big a crisis it is, really help a spouse to see that.

Yeah.

When we're come in at it as equals and can't. Can't create rules like we do for children. But still, it's, it has to be addressed. What are some of your advice?

Absolutely.

For those in a marriage dynamic like that.

Totally. So first line of defense, you pray. You pray over the spouse. You pray that that spouse's heart will be turned soft towards you, soft toward God. And then I think, educating, like having this conversation. And who knows, maybe you can couch it if your parents in like a parenting thing and then switch and then pivot that. But the idea being, you know, does your spouse understand the addictive nature of tech? You know, so if your spouse can understand. Wait, I am being manipulated. I think that's helpful. If your spouse can understand. Oh, wow. The, you know, Silicon Valley tells me that a thousand people are on the other side of this phone brain. Scientists and researchers and marketers and psychologists, and their whole job is to keep my attention on this phone, phone. And so if my spouse. Can my spouse understand I'm being manipulated right now? When you go on Instagram, I love to tell people, okay, go ahead. I give you permission. Go on Instagram and scroll through and let me know when you're done. I'll wait. You know, of course, what happens, they. They're never done because it's, It's. There's no stopping point. So that is engineered so that your spouse understands. Do you understand that this is engineered to keep you on that? These are, this is, this is a business. And I think for many of us, if we understand that, wait a minute, I don't want to be manipulated. And we can kind of have that in our bones, like, I am my own free agent. I will not be Manipulated by this video game or by this social media or by this endless, you know, Netflix. Because think of it, when they did that post play, it used to be that you could watch, you know, an episode and then you had to choose the next episode to play. But of course, when they introduced post play, it's like, oh, let's have it go right away. So then now they have to choose not to. And of course, who can say that, oh, I'll watch the first few minutes and see what happens to that guy. And then, of course, an hour goes by and it goes on again. And that CEO was told that his competition was not another streaming platform. His competition, he said, quote, was sleep. And I feel like once an individual, not as a spouse, but just as an individual, just as a child of God can say, I'm not going to be manipulated by that. My time isn't going to get steamrolled by that. I have free agency to use what my time, how I want. So maybe, I know that sounds really different, but just getting on the same page. So for instance, my book, Screen Kids, you read that as parents, but then you're like, oh, this is for adults too. This is how this works for adults too. So once you have, have that baseline understanding, then I think it's, you know, when everyone's full and happy. Honey, I. I just want a few minutes to talk to you. I have been feeling like I'm in competition with your phone or with a video game or whatever, and I want to spend time with you. I want to know what's happening in your life. I want, I'm curious about you. Can we have a date night? Can we have like a certain night that we like, power down at 8pm and just ask for maybe something small and specific and let it be the heart of, I just want us to be closer together. No, you know, try to not guilt or shame as much as possible, but just that desire of, I want to be closer to you. Can we go to coffee without our phones? You know, so it's just something simple, but it's a desire. And I feel like for most spouses, they'll really feel like a heel if they're like, no, I won't, I won't do that, I won't do that. I really love my game and I'm not going to do that. You know, many spouses are going to be like, sure, you know, we can do that. And that can be the first of many steps. And the heart of it is, is, you know, I find you more interesting than Any screen device. And we have to work on that, you know, because guess what? The screens are novel all the time. There's something tantalizing all the time on the screen. And it's like I've been looking at my spouse for 22 years, you know, so, you know, so you have to build that over and over again. I love Bill Farrell, Pam Farrell, you know, my mentors, writers, speakers, and they just talk about curiosity. Like you have to stay curious about each other. So I think if you couch it and I want to, want to know what makes you tick and I want to still spend time with you, who's going to be like, no, I don't want, I don't want anyone who's interested in me, you know, So I think that is the way to approach that.

And that is gold, pure gold.

And just, just addressing it. And I loved how you said, you know, when they're full and happy, meaning, like in a good moment. Because we don't need to do it when we've had the worst day ever. Fighting all day, by the way.

Yeah, that phone. Fighting the phone. Yeah. You're a loser. Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're just losing it. Life over here. No, I love that because it is. Because then it's like, it's so much more tender. Like we're going to be so much more open to each other and, and I think that sometimes we don't even realize how addicted we are to our phones. Like, I've had to remind myself of this. And even, you know, kids are a good reminder if you're. Because, you know, we do a lot of work on our phones. I have it right here. Mainly because I'm actually making sure the kids are okay because they're, you know, somewhere else right now. But we, you know, we often have it for good reason. But I've. There's been times where I'm on something and I've had, you know, my, my 10 year old say, mom, you've kind of been on that a long time. And I'm like, ooh, okay, thank you for the reminder. You know, and I'll even say, I would often say I'm doing work, which I am. But a lot of times it gets, it gets murky. Cause I was doing work, but then I'm just scrolling.

Totally.

And I was, you know, vaguely related to your work.

Like the sho you're looking at are going to be worn at work, you know, Vaguely related.

I'm playing wordle, but words are part of my work.

Exactly. Your mind is being sharpened Right now, Right? Yeah. And I love when you say about work because, you know, one thing in the book Screen Kids that you'll learn is digital vegetables and digital candy. You know, and that's the thing. There are good, legitimate things that happen on your phone. There are. But then there are a lot of other things that are super distracting, you know, so. So to tell yourself, you know, am I doing a digital vegetable or digital candy? And it's the same like, in the real world, like, a digital vegetable is, okay, your true work, your true research. It's like something you're kind of making yourself to do, have to do for a kid. It's like watching a sermon. Like during those Covid years when we couldn't go, let's say, in person, and we watched a sermon that was a digital vegetable, because no matter how godly your kid is, they probably weren't like, oh, I want to watch another one after you watch the sermon. So that's a digital vegetable. And then, of course, digital candy is all the fun stuff that's hard to stop. And so you can talk in that way to your child, like, hey, child of mine, are you doing digital vegetable or digital candy? And they can be like, candy. Like, okay, ten minutes of candy, and then let's get off. And the same thing with adults. And guess what? You can turn your spouse or your child, they can ask candy or vegetable? You know, and not in a snotty way, you know? You know, but like, in a. Just like a. That can be like your little tell of, hey, let's keep on track. Candy or vegetable. Right. And. And really, as a mom, because I also work from home, and so when I am working, if I'm saying, like, this is a digital vegetable, and they look, and I'm podcasting, they'll be like, okay, I get it. Mom's working. But if they look and I'm like, you know, totally doing something else, they'll be like, oh, so it kind of keeps you accountable yourself if you. If you tell your kids and your spouse what you're doing.

I love that. And I love that you. You're giving us a language to use that doesn't seem like you said. It's not. I mean, it doesn't seem derogatory right out on the surface. It's like, you're just. We're all. Because we. You know, and I've told the kids this and Dave has too many times over. We've. We've said, like, we're works in progress in this, too. Like, we have to Check ourselves too, because it is. It's so enticing.

And we are all living in the candy store. It's not just our kids, it's the adults. They are living in the candy store too.

Exactly. And, and like you said, it never stops. It's a constant scroll. It's constantly changing. There's more stuff, they're doing more research and finding what else gets our eyeballs for how long or whatever.

So, yeah, now I do want to tell your listeners that we are crazy family. So the way that we have really stopped that scroll is, is. Is by limiting actual devices. So we have a senior in high school, we have a sophomore in high school that do not have phones at all. Not even a dumb phone. They don't have any phones. And our seventh grade obviously doesn't have a phone either. And they knew, like, okay, we're not gonna get phones. So everyone always asks me, like, did they freak out or whatever? Like, no, because from the time they were little, we're like, oh, yeah, see that person on their phone all the time? That's not gonna be you.

Y. You're gonna get.

We'll talk about it your senior year of high school. But before then, like, there's just basically no chance. And they've known that. And, and truly, they have found lots of workarounds. They have friends, they have activities, they're involved. They go to a public school. My daughter's on the tennis team. My son's been the president of the debate club. Like, they do stuff. They're not just like, oh, we just sit in our rooms with a book and do nothing. You know, like, so just know that, that, that is a way. Like, you know, a lot of people think like, that's impossible, but it is truly a way. And it is. We have found it to be a really good way because it mitigates that temptation so much just because it's not personal. But our kids way struggle. I mean, all the time, you know, they're looking at this computer screen, no doubt, because, you know, we have computers, we have laptops, they've got a school issued iPad. So it's not like we don't have enough screens, right? So they have that. They just don't have their personal device. And we're still, you know, we have the same problems as you do of. Okay, you've been sitting still for two hours watching YouTube. Could you please move? Like we still have that and that's without the personal device. So I just really want to encourage you as a parent. And we have a We actually made a documentary during COVID of asking my kids, like, okay, do you really feel left out? Because that's what parents are afraid of. And so you can go tohappy home university.com and that movie is called Screen Kids. It's a documentary and you can download, you can watch that for free or you can make a donation. But that's called Screen Kids in Their Own Words. And they will tell you in their own words what it's been like not having social media, et cetera.

Yeah.

And what a. I love that.

What a gift. Arlene, your resources, your wisdom, it is really just such a game changer. And we're going to continue this conversation on the premium side. So you guys can go to nakedmarriagepodcast.super cast.com but for those who are going to going to miss out on that and end it here, I want to make sure you stay connected to Arlene and the great work she's doing. So she gave you the place where you can find that documentary. She's got some amazing books. Screen Kids, 31 days to a Happy Husband, Parents Rising, a lot of great resources. You can find all that. Probably the best place to find it all is at her website, arlenepellocaine.com I'm going to spell this for you because maybe you're like me and you're bad at spelling and it's a R L E N E P E L L I C A N E dot com. Check her out on social media and check out our website. Those books, you will be blessed, as I know you have been by this conversation. And we're excited to continue the conversation. But first, I just want to thank you again, Arlene. You are so wonderful and you guys.

Are so much fun. Thank you so much. Thank you for your heart, your honesty, you're wanting to help families. It's just amazing. So thanks so much for having me on. It's been an honor to talk with your people.

Oh, likewise. Thank you and thank you all for listening. We will see you next time.