Keeping Score in Marriage

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we are continuing in our series today about the nine habits that lead to divorce. And it is an episode that you definitely want to listen to till the very end. We give all kinds of advice on how to stop score keeping. So if that's something that, you know, you think that you might struggle with, or even if you don't think you do, you might want to listen because we give a lot of information advice on how to know if this is a current struggle, you definitely wanna listen all the way through. But before we do that, I wanna share a recent review with you. And this is from Mama Wife H. And she gave us five stars. So thank you so much and says I appreciate all the knowledge you both give. It is mind blowingly helpful and thank you so much for leaving that review. And if you have not left a review yet and you love this podcast, please do that. It helps us so much.

Yeah. And it helps other people discover the podcast. It's one of the best ways that you can help other people discover it. So if it's been meaningful to you, share that review and it lets other people know about it. But we've really enjoyed this series. We're in on the nine habits and hope that it's helping you and your spouse talk through, maybe undoing some unhealthy habits and restarting some healthy ones. Because our habits are what ultimately define our marriage. And so we want to help you develop the healthiest habits possible. So let's dive into today's conversation.

As we are continuing on in our series about the nine habits that lead to divorce. And today's is a big one. And that is scorekeeping. And you know, maybe, you know, you are actually listening to this or watching this because to you, scorekeeping is good because you are naturally a competitive person. Because I think that, you know, and I'm smiling because I think we have, we're competitive about Certain things, you know, But I've met couples where, like, the thing that drew them together was that spirit of competition between them. And when they were dating, it was like so sweet and cute and they loved it and they like played sports together and everything was like competition. But then when they got married, it. It kind of became the bane of their existence because they were constantly one upping each other or keeping score about everything. And it just becomes maddening after a while. And so, you know, we want to talk about really if there is any place for scorekeeping in marriage and how we can turn things around.

So, so yeah, yeah, that's a great. It's a great topic. I would say scorekeeping, we're listing it here as a. Is a habit that leads to divorce. So, I mean, we're tipping our cards, so to speak, right from the beginning to say we feel like this is an unhealthy practice most of the time. But let's define what we mean by scorekeeping first, because there might be some context where, sure, yeah, some aspect of scorekeeping could be good. But when we say scorekeeping, we mean that like you're keeping this usually invisible scorecard where you're always winning and your spouse is always losing, and where you keep track of all the negative they're doing, not the positive they've done, but the negative in particular. And that gets brought up again in conversations as ammunition and arguments or as justification you use to do your own thing. Well, you did this, so I'm gonna do this. And that can be really, really unhealthy. Another aspect of this episode is that since it's part five of a nine part series, we're like literally at halftime. And so using another sports reference, in addition to scorekeeping, in most sports, like basketball, football, there's a period called halftime where you go back into the locker room, you talk about what went right, what went wrong in the first half, and you together with your team, make a unified game plan for what's going to happen next. And I think these moments are not only helpful for sports teams, but they can be really helpful in marriage too, to kind of call a timeout, get away. And you don't have to be physically at the halfway point of your life or anything, but to just say, let's kind of call a break here. Let's talk about what's going right. What's some things that we might want to improve in our game plan and what are some things we can do differently and better, and some of the good things we want to keep doing in this next season together, and so make that a rhythm and a priority. That's why we have resources like the vision retreat in the XO Marriage store, where you can get away and have videos that we made, or the guidebook that Jimmy Evans and Karen Evans created to just have those kinds of conversations. So that's kind of just a little side note, but I do think every couple can benefit from those kinds of conversations. But coming specifically back to the scorekeeping thing, you know, pull back and say, have there ever been. If there. How about this? If there is a scoreboard in our marriage, what are those things that we're. That we're tracking? All right, and that we're keeping score of that are maybe in a negative way. I think if there's going to be a positive aspect of scorekeeping, it would be keeping track of the good. Keeping track, celebrating the good. My spouse did this. Well. Or, hey, this is, you know, this is X number of days we've gone in a row. Being intentional about having an uninterrupted conversation together or saying a prayer together or celebrating some good streak. Those are good things to celebrate. But what are some of the negative.

Oh, goodness. I think that, you know, if. If we're. We're tracking things, I think that, you know, one thing I want to make very clear is what Dave is describing as far as, like, having a huddle, so to speak, at that halftime and keeping score of some things is that you're scoring your marriage, you're not scoring your spouse. You know what I'm saying? Because that's where the problems happen is when you're like, well, you know, I mean, we have to be able to just say if something's not working. But when you're constantly, like, pointing out, you know, you didn't listen to me again, you know, that is very deflating. And I think that when we constantly feel like our spouse that they're. That they are keeping score of something and that we're never meeting the mark, we just feel like, well, why even try? Like that's what we see spouses doing. But I do think, you know, as a. As a couple, we need to say, you know, well, have we, you know, when's the last time we went on a date night? Or when's the last time that we actually worked on our marriage and joined a marriage Bible study or went to an exomarriage conference or, you know, did what you're talking about with the vision retreat? I think we do need to talk about those things. You know, maybe it's technology. If you listen to earlier episodes within this series, we talked all about, you know, our online behavior. Maybe that is something where you feel like the phone is ruling your house and, you know, you can't remember the last time you guys had a conversation without a phone being right there and kind of half hearted listening. I think those are things we need to pay attention to. But what I think we really have to be careful of is getting caught in kind of this trap where it's just a tit for tat. Okay. And for some of you listening, maybe that's not a phrase you say. I've heard this many times, but it's just kind of like, well, I did this and you didn't do that. Like, it's a constant comparison and, and competition between you of who's the better spouse, who's the better parent, who's the harder worker. I mean, I, how many spouses fight about that?

That is such a trap.

Like when your spouse comes home from work after a long day and they're like putting their feet up and like, man, it was such a long day. Like, I just, I need to sit for a minute. And instead of being like, oh, you know, really, what happened? Like what, you know, I'm sorry you had a long day. Tell me more about it. We see spouses like, well, you think you had a long day? I'm working just as hard.

My feet aren't up in there.

Yeah, I'm still having to cook dinner or I'm still having to this, you know, and not to mention run the kids to, you know, basketball.

We tend to over inflate what we're doing is, is the hardest. And then we tend to minimize whatever our spouse is doing because that's what's. Scorekeeping skews our perspective. We don't see.

It's always in our favor.

It's always in our favor. So we're always winning and our spouse is always losing. And that dynamic is, of course that's gonna poison a marriage. Right? And your spouse is gonna think you only notice the negative things that I do. You never thank me for the things I'm doing right or encourage me or celebrate the things I'm doing. Well, it's like you, you just want to minimize the good and inflate the bad. It's kind of like, you know, if there's like a. Some, some. I see this with politics all the time in our world. You know, if somebody locks in on a politician or a political party they don't like, then there's nothing that they can do right.

Nothing.

There's everything that they do wrong. You want to amplify everything they do right. You want to minimize or just ignore. And my goodness, I mean, that's toxic even in politics. But how much more so in marriage when you're treating your spouse that way? I want to minimize what you're doing right. I want to focus on what you're doing wrong to make myself look better, to give myself more leverage or whatever it might be. And of course that's going to be a habit that leads to divorce. That's why it's listed here. And so you got to reframe the whole conversation. And you might think, well, but my spouse did do something wrong, and I need to bring that up to remind them of it. But listen, they know that they had done that wrong, and I'm sure you dealt with it initially when it happened. But to keep bringing it up is wrong. That's not just our opinion. I mean, the Bible speaks of this. There's a verse in Proverbs that says to overlook an offense promotes peace, but dwelling on the matter separates close friends, and if it separates close friends, I'd say, how much more will it separate the best of friends, which are husband and wife? So right there, that one little verse is such a tool to live by. Like, I'm going to choose to overlook this event. That doesn't mean that you're giving your spouse or yourself a free pass to continually make unhealthy decisions or hurtful decisions. It just means that once a matter has been initially dealt with and you've talked about it and offered forgiveness and all of that, that you move on and you don't bring it up months or years later like, well, I've never let go of this and you still owe me for that because that's going to cause separation.

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But about that, like, if you're going to have those kind of conversations, don't let that be an opportunity to just pull out the cannons and start firing at each other. You've got to. You've got to. Even if you're going to speak a difficult truth, the Bible says, speak the truth in love.

Yes.

And if love isn't leading your tone, if tenderness and kindness and a desire for unity in your marriage aren't what's leading you, then take a step back. Because if we're ever saying anything in an attempt to wound or manipulate, then even if what we say is factually true because our motives aren't right, it's going to be damaging.

It will. That's such a good point to make, sweetie. And I would even say, too, if you're at that place and you know, no matter how you guys try to do it, it's just a fight. You need to reach out for help. It's really important that you do it sooner rather than later. You guys have heard us on the podcast talk about our exo marriage mediators. They are amazing, and they are trained to work with couples who are in this kind of dynamic, and they are trained to help you with really get down to what the real issues are. Because I think sometimes we're playing this, you know, tit for tat game or scorekeeping, and we're missing it completely. Like, we're not even really getting down to the root issues here, the real hurt that is there. And what these marriage mediators are trained to do is to help you discover that and then to really talk about it in a civil way. And so if you need help, go to xomarriage.com help and you can talk to the marriage mediators via. Via Zoom. And if you're in the DFW Texas area, you can actually meet them in person. But I think that they could be a great resource for you because bottom line is, it's really. When you're in the habit of scorekeeping, it can be really hard to break that. It can be really hard. And that's why you see this lead to divorce a lot of times, because by, you know, you've been doing it so long, you're the champion. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're ready and you feel like, well, I've. I've got every reason to leave and I'm leaving, you know, and I'm never looking back. And it's just really tragic. And we want to save you from that. We want to give you the tools to help you all turn this around. And it's not easy. But just because something isn't easy doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. All of these nine habits that lead to divorce are really hard dynamics. And they didn't just happen overnight. They happen over a long period of time, usually. And so because you're in the habit, I mean, that's why they're a habit. You've been doing this for so long, it is going to take a great effort to. To turn it around, but it is totally possible. And just remember, nothing's impossible with God. You know, he. He can. He can make the hardest of hearts soft Again, he can take crazy, chaotic situations and bring peace to them and perspective to them. And so we just want to give you hope. But you do have to recognize the role that you yourself are playing in this and stop just seeing what your spouse is doing, because odds are there's something that you can change in what you're doing to help the situation.

Yeah. So good. And look for the things to praise. Yes, that's. And we talk about this a lot, but I think we need to be reminded of this a lot that praised behavior is repeated behavior most of the time, whether it's to a child or to an adult. Like, all of us at every age, we like being encouraged. We like somebody noticing our effort and saying, thank you for that, or, wow, you did a great job with that. And that means the world to me, even now, like, if I do something. And Ashley, and she does this a lot, she's great about this, but, you know, just thanks me for it, or says, wow, you did a great job with that, or, I really appreciate that, or, oh, you were so good at that. And whatever it is, it could be something small, and it makes me want to keep doing it. It's encouraging. But if I feel like I'm letting her down, like, which she doesn't ever make me feel like I'm letting her down. She's so good about building me up. But there were seasons, right? There were seasons in marriage where it was so clear that I was letting her down, and I just felt like I was a failure, and I felt so frustrated. And at first, it might initially, in the short term, make you want to try harder in certain areas, but then pretty quickly, once you realize I'm not getting this right, human nature is, we just want to pull away. Like, well, I'm clearly not going to be able to be good at this, so I guess I'll just go do something else.

Where I feel like I'm winning, where.

I feel like I'm winning, I'll just try harder at work or I'll try harder at this. And then next thing we know, we're creating division.

Right? It's so true. You know, the bottom line, guys, is we don't have to let just the fact that we have any of these negative habits in place. We don't have to look at that as an excuse to get divorced or a reason to get divorced. You know what I'm saying? Like, we can, with God's help, turn these things around, but it will take effort. And so if you are scorekeeping, if, you know, even if, as you were listening to this or watching this, you thought, well, I am doing a lot more than my spouse. And maybe you are. Like, maybe you really are.

No, no, I'm. I'm working all the time. And they're lazy. And we even have articles like, you can look up an article we did@xomarriage.com on how to deal with a lazy spouse. And there are circumstances where one spouse is just in a lazy season, in a lazy season. And maybe to have compassion, there's medical or psychological reasons for that. They could be in a depression. They could be in a place where they actually need your help instead of your condemnation. But. But there probably are situations where one spouse is just plain being lazy and they can't really blame some other external factor. And we have an article, we deal specifically with that. And it might take some mediation or intervention to work through, but overall, 99% of the time, what marriages need when they feel like I'm doing more than my spouse or whatever, is to reframe your thinking, point out what they're doing. Well, keep doing your part out of love. Because marriage isn't 50, 50. It's 100. 100. Right. So if 50, 50 means I'm going to do exactly half and expect my spouse to do exactly half of everything, but there's no way to even measure that. And you're always going to feel like you're doing more than your share because we don't see everything. But if you say my marriage is 100, 100, which means I'm going to give 100% of myself and 100% of my effort out of love, out of commitment, regardless of whether or not my spouse is doing as much. But what tends to happen when you're giving your best? Your spouse is going to want to give their best, too, most of the time.

It's so true. And I think, too, just one more note about the encouragement when you do praise that good behavior, even if it's kind of in that season where maybe you would like them to do a little more. Just the fact that they see you noticing the good things, that is motivating. That is motivating. And so it's good for us. It's a healthy practice to just find even the smallest thing that we can commend in our spouse, because then they realize, oh, my goodness. Well, they don't only see the negative, they do see the good. They are for me and not against me. And I think it's really important that we do reframe in that way and try to just change the temperature, so to speak, in our home. Because I do think when you're accustomed to scorekeeping, there's just kind of a negativity that is just around the home. And odds are, and I want to say this, and then we're probably going to have to close. Odds are if you and your spouse are scorekeeping each other and you're slinging some negative things, your kids are watching that.

Oh, yeah.

And then your kids, they're going to score, keep with their friends, with their future mates. And I know you don't want that. You guys, none of us really want these negative habits. We don't want this. It usually is little by little that we fall into this and then we lose track and we don't even realize we're there. But. But don't let it become the norm in your house. Let today be the day where you stop doing this and you guys sit down and have those hard conversations or maybe reach out to an exo mediator because it's not only you that's affected, it's your kids, too.

So true and so good. Guys, I hope this was a meaningful conversation to you. Do us a favor, share this, if you don't mind, on social media or text it to a friend. If you've maybe talked to a friend and they've fallen into some of this dynamic by helping us spread the word, you guys are partnering with us to just help strengthen marriages everywhere. And we appreciate you so much as always. You can reach out to us on Instagram avanashleywillis and you can go to xomarriage.com, which is our ministry's website, for a full list of resources. We'll look forward to seeing you here in a couple days for our hump day Q and A, which is our midweek episode that is all about answering one of your questions. You can submit questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com and maybe we'll answer your question on air. God bless, guys.

We'll see you next time.