Kids Cause Gray Hair

Hey, guys, welcome back. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and you are listening to the Naked Marriage podcast where we are undressing the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. Before we jump into today's episode, quick announcement. We'll talk more about this at the end of the episode, but check out nakedmarriagebook.com for information about how you can pre order and get instant access to some goodies when you pre order our Naked marriage book. We're so excited to share this resource with you.

That's right. You know, today will be the first of many episodes that we're gonna do and we're gonna talk about par and how it relates to marriage. So let's dive in.

One of the greatest blessings on earth is also one of the greatest causes of stress on earth. And I'm talking about children. And we have four little blessings. Cooper, Connor, Chandler, Chatham, they all start with letter C. Even our dog starts with a C. Chi Chi.

Chi Chi.

Just to add the extra confusion. But we love our kids, man, we love them, love them, love them. They're awesome. Greatest source of joy and blessing in our lives.

And.

But it's also stressful being a parent. And that stress can have a unique challenge on a marriage. And a lot of the questions that we get from you guys at live events and online on Facebook, all of that, and a lot of the, even the stress you've had in our own marriage has come from parenting related stress. And so we wanna dedicate an episode talking about this as we're recording this. It's near Christmastime when some of that kids stress can be amplified because they're going to be out of school and the pressure of all the gifts and all of that. But whatever time of year you might be listening to this, I think this is going to be relevant. And so, sweetie, what are some of your thoughts? How can we be the best parents we can be, obviously. But specifically, and just kind of in the context of this podcast and about marriage, how can we really keep our marriage strong even as we're raising those precious bundles of joy?

Well, I think first and foremost we have to make sure we prioritize our marriage. And I think if there's ever a reason that we will put our marriage on the back burner, it is parenting our children. Because we think we wanna be good parents. We wanna spend the time with our kids that we can, you know, that we need to do, to invest in them and to teach them. And so we tell ourselves, well, it's okay to kind of put my marriage on hold for now because I need to devote my time and attention to my kids. And, you know, and that is a good motive. You know, we want to invest time and attention in our children and in raising them. But putting our marriage on the back burner is literally one of the worst things we could do. Because then we're not fostering a strong marriage. And really, one of the best gifts we can give our children is a healthy marriage, is them growing up in a happy, healthy home. And that doesn't necessarily mean that their parents, like never have an argument or never have a rough day. Because I think it's also healthy for kids to see two parents working through the stuff, you know, working through disagreements. Yes. With respect. And so I think that we've got to make sure as we go into parenting our kids, you know, maybe you're pregnant right now, maybe you're thinking about becoming parents one day. One thing you need to really remember is you never put your marriage on the back burner to raise your kids.

No, never. I mean, you can't. And I think that that goes against, you know, a lot of this self inflicted stress and guilt that comes out.

Oh yeah, we guilt ourselves.

We guilt ourselves a lot because we'll get on any Instagram and Facebook and we'll scroll through and it's all these perfectly filtered photos of these family moments. And you think everybody else is a perfect parent but me. And the truth is there's no perfect family. There are only perfect moments. And really, I don't even know if they're perfect moments. They're just perfect sweet moments, pictures of moments. And so there are a lot of sweet moments along the way when you're just, you're present and you give yourself a lot of grace. But what Ashley's saying is so, so true, and I hope you're paying attention to this. You cannot put your marriage on hold while you're raising your kids. Because what will happen is that you'll end up with an empty nest and an empty marriage. Not only will your marriage suffer, but here's the ironic part of it. Your kids will suffer. The people I know who have the most unhealthy dynamic with their parents as grown adults now, talking about grown people in their relationship with their parents where there's this unhealthy codependency and all this weird drama. And yes, it's usually coming when those parents were like really, really ultra focused on the child, on the children, and not on their marriage. And so now those parents don't have a good marriage and they're still holding on for dear life to their kid because that's all they've got. And it just creates the weirdest, unhealthiest dynamic. And, you know, we'll talk in the next episode something about kind of, you know, in laws and how to have healthy relationships from that perspective, but not getting too far ahead of ourselves. The best thing you can do for your kids is model a healthy marriage. And, yes, you need to be there for them. You need to invest a lot of time. And we, obviously, we do that. We do the go have lunch at the school, coach in sports, all those things that we can do. We do take road trips. I mean, all those things be present. But we gotta prioritize date night. We gotta prioritize getting together where it's just the two of us and we're talking about more than just the kids, even though we obviously talk about that a lot, too. Because this marriage is gonna. It's gonna last for your lifetime is your primary relationship, apart from your relationship with God. Your kids are gonna. They're gonna grow up and move out, and they'll always be a part of your life. That's the goal. If they're 40 and still playing video games in your basement 24 hours a day, you have failed as a parent. I'm just gonna say it. You have.

Well, it's definitely not what we're hoping for.

It's not what we're hoping for. And I've already told our kids that. Listen, I love you. And if you're. You're not gonna be living here when you're 30.

You're not like, you're a bird. And we are teaching you to fly. Like, you're gonna flee the nest one day. That is the goal as a parent. And we want you to flee the nest and be able to stand, you know, and have a life of your own. You know, go. Go free and just fly high and have a job and have a family and enjoy your life. And, you know, when we're doing parenting the right way, we really compel our kids to want to do that. Like, we want. You know, we show them that it's good to be adult, an adult one day. Because I think we are in this culture where it's like, everyone's scared to grow up. You know, there's a whole culture of people who don't want to grow up. And let me tell you all, when I was in, like, middle school, my mom used to tease me and say that I looked at my bedroom like it was my Apartment. Because I really liked that space. I liked having my own space. And I so looked forward to being on my own one day. Not because I didn't want to be at home. I mean, I love my parents, I love my home, but I just, I thought being an adult was a good thing. I thought being independent was a good thing. And so, you know, when we're parenting properly and teaching our kids, you know, kind of in age appropriate ways how to be independent and how to, you know, that they can stand on their own two feet apart from their parents in certain ways, kind of age appropriate ways, we're doing the right thing because we're showing them that eventually they're going to be an adult and they're going to leave their home and, you know, maybe have a mate one day, maybe get married one day. And it's a good thing. It's not something to be scared of. It's not something to dread. You know, I really hate the word adulting because I'm like, what? Like being an adult, I'm adulting today.

I have to pay the power bill. It's just, oh, it's so lame and it's so stressful. I'm like, guys, come on, listen. You know, I was listening to a guy named Jordan Peterson. He has a bestselling book, 12 Rules for Life. You know, he's kind of a controversial character. I don't know why. The message controversial where he's basically just challenging people, especially young men, to be responsible with their life. And in his research, one thing he was saying is really one of the main factors that lead to a truly happy life is a person who will take on responsibility. He said, when you're feeling depressed, a lot of times it's because of this mindset so many people have been raised with, to avoid responsibility at all costs. He said, but if you really want health and happiness in your own life, you have to first and foremost take responsibility for yourself. And then you have to seek out responsibility for others. Have other people depending on you, have children of your own, have people that are depending on the unique contribution that you're making and be responsible for that and carry that weight with joy. And it's countercultural because the world teaches us, avoid responsibility, be selfish, be self focused. And this message is something different. And I think it lines up with what the Bible has to say about being an adult. And so, you know, not getting too far down a rabbit hole of teaching these principles to our kids. Coming back to the marriage focus of it, one of the best ways to Teach your kids that responsibility is to model for them what a healthy dynamic looks like in relationships. I believe one of the most sacred duties we have as parents is to train our kids and to have a healthy marriage someday. And when they look at us, it's not going to be a perfect example, but they see two people that are totally committed to each other, that are hopefully best friends, and who are prioritizing their marriage through all seasons while at the same time, obviously loving their kids, sacrificing for their kids, doing what we all do. But if you will look at one of your parenting deals this way, like, I've got to teach my kids to be a good husband. I've got to teach my kids to be a good wife. And because I'm showing my boys how to treat women, I'm showing my daughters what they should expect from men, by the way, I, as a dad, live, and you moms are doing the same thing. I think that will not only help our marriages, but that is going to. It's gonna help our kids, and it's gonna help that dynamic, parent to child dynamic. Once your kids grow up and you transition from being an authority over them to being a friend to them in adulthood, it can't happen. Now, don't try to be your middle school kid's best friend, but once they're an adult, you can have that friendship. When you've done this part, the.

That's so true, sweetie. You know, I think one way that we kind of run into issues when it comes to parenting and marriage is when one spouse really wants those kids to keep on depending on them and to not grow up because they feel like they're not really good at being married. Like, as a spouse, they don't feel very confident in being a married person, but they feel confident in being a parent. And so they try to keep on holding on to that, you know, codependent relationship because their whole identity is wrapped up. Because their whole identity is, I'm a good parent. I may not be a good spouse, but I'm a good parent. So they hold on for dear life to that child. And they also, you know, when we feel like, this is where I'm good, this is where I soar. I'm a good parent. This is my identity. What we do is we become very codependent. We keep our child in this dynamic where we want them to depend on us, and then we want them to fulfill us. We want them to kind of fill that gap that we feel like we're not getting filled in our Marriage. And so we become very vulnerable with that child. You know, what I see in a lot of these unhealthy parent child relationships is the parent will share vulnerable information with that child that is very inappropriate and misplaced because they have this need to be vulnerable. And instead of going to their spouse and having those conversations with their spouse, they confide in their child and they put this on their child. And it's really too much to put on a child. And it's usually at a very inappropriate age, too, and it's too much too soon. But they feel bonded with that child, and they have a deeper relationship with that child because they're telling them all their secrets. And so then there's this very unhealthy dynamic where as the years go by, there's this codependent relationship. And when that child, you know, really should flee the nest, it's like, no, no, no, stay here. Because I don't know what life's gonna look like when you leave and I don't have you to talk to, and I have to look at my spouse in the eyes and I don't even know this person anymore. And so I just wanna challenge you. If you find yourself in that dynamic where you feel closer to your child than to your spouse, that's a big red flag. And that means that there's some conversations that really need to happen. I would say it's a crisis. I would say you and your spouse need to go to counseling and you need to talk through this and say, you know, why is it that I feel closer to my kids and that I can talk more to my kids than I can to my spouse? Why aren't we having those conversations? Because I promise you, right now, you like it. Right now you feel like this is a good thing, but it only leads to really broken relationships. Because what's gonna happen is one day your child is going to meet someone they wanna marry, and it's gonna break your heart, because then all of a sudden you're gonna lose your best friend because they're gonna be investing in their marriage as they should, and you're not gonna understand why they're doing this. And it's gonna cause some really negative dynamics. We're gonna go into this more in our next podcast, but I just wanna kind of get kind of the mind, you know, thinking about this because it is a very negative dynamic that we can prevent now as parents raising kids, you know, in our home, we can really start making things healthier. Because, you guys, we're not perfect. We're gonna mess things up. We're gonna have things that are out of sorts. But what we need to do is really ask ourselves the important questions, like, am I prioritizing my marriage? Am I having appropriate vulnerability with my spouse? Or am I trying to confide in my child more than my spouse? And when we put our marriage first, guys, really everything else, it's God first, then our spouse and then our kids, it really helps things to fall properly into place. And you know, anytime we've written about this, we always get some feedback that's negative. And they're like, how can you say that? You know, when God gives us kids, they're supposed to be first. But you guys, that's really not how God designed it, right? When God designed the family, we're supposed to, you know, put him first. He is our creator, he is our God. And then we're supposed to prioritize our spouse next and then our children because, you know, our marriage, hopefully, I mean, the goal is that we stay married way beyond raising our kids. And our kids are an important part of our family, an important part of our story. We'll be their parents forever. And that's wonderful. But if we wanna really have the kind of family that God wants us to have, we've gotta prioritize our marriage and make time for each other all the way through the child rearing years.

Now that's so, so good. And you know, we're gonna keep the conversation going in future podcasts. I want to develop, I want to focus a lot on this, on raising godly kids, on creating this atmosphere in our home that's going to create a generational legacy that's going to help not only the marriage, but help our children, help our grandchildren. Because, man, what a sacred and awesome responsibility that that is. Kind of coming back to, you know, how we started the conversation on this one. And especially around the holidays, I feel like there's a stress that can come between a husband and a wife that a lot of times just not necessarily the kid's fault, but it's just the nature of the dynamic of having kids and work and bills and all this different stuff. And sometimes that parenting stress and maybe the different ways a husband and a wife might deal with that parenting stress can really cause a wedge in the marriage. And so, sweetie, what are some of your nuggets of wisdom? Because you are as wise as you are beautiful. How we can deal with this stress? Because the stress, what it does is it just, it sucks the life and energy out of you. So you, when you're stressed out. And I've been there so many times. Not only can I not be a good parent, I can't be a good spouse.

Right?

And nobody wins. Just carrying the stress around. And so when that stress comes, which is just an inevitable part of life, what do we do with that stress without lashing out at the kids or lashing out at our spouse? How do we deal with this in a healthy way?

Well, I think, I mean, you kind of already touched on this, sweetie, is we need to realize that our spouse is not going to process stress in the exact same way that we do. So we can't make them feel bad about it. And I know Dave and I, we've walked through this. You know, we're smiling at each other right now because this has been a little bit. You know, part of our story is that when kind of years ago. And even still, this is always something we're kind of working through. You know, we don't necessarily parent in the same way. Okay?

Yes, we do.

We have the same values, we want the same values.

We have the same goals, but different approaches.

Different approaches.

For instance, like, I'm a softie. Like, I'm the soft.

He is so nice.

Like, my kids, they'll ask me. They'll ask mom something. And I really get onto them now. Cause I figured out their game, but they'll ask mom something. They won't get the answer they want. And they'll come and be like, dad, now they don't even ask her. They'll walk past her. They'll walk past her and come find me in the bathroom or some place where I'm just not ready to have a conversation. And they'd be like, dad, can I stay up and play this all night video game thing? Even though I have school tomorrow. But it's real important. And I've got some friends in Japan that are online playing and I want to do it with them. And. And there's a part of me that's just like, yeah, that sounds cool. You know, you got friends in Japan. Why not? You know? But as a responsible parent, I've had to teach myself to say no a lot more. No has to be the default answer for most responsible parents. But I love saying yes. I can't help it. Like, I just want to say yes. And there have been times that. That yes has gotten me in trouble or yes to some things where Ashley's already said no. And I didn't realize that.

Right.

And so we've had to kind of really, really let the Kids know, listen, we, as husband and wife, we're the same. We're on the same team. Do not try to work us against each other. Do not ask either of us a question you've already asked the other, because that's just not gonna work. But it took us a while to kind of get to that place of unity.

It did. It's like we are united. And so if Dave has already told them no, I'm gonna support that. Or if he said yes, you know, I try to support that too. And if I disagree, let me just say this. If you and your spouse are trying to be a united front, but your child ask your spouse something, and they gave an answer that you don't agree with, don't have that conversation in front of your child and let your child know, I disagree with my spouse on this. And how could you say yes when I've said no? Don't have that in front of your child, because that shows them that you're not united. You can still have that conversation.

Show no witness.

That's right. Have that conversation. But have it in your bedroom. Have it where the kids aren't around, because that's a private conversation. That's one where you're like, sweetie, listen, I'm gonna support you and that you said yes this time. But I really don't think our kids should be staying up all night playing a video game with their friends in Japan or whatever it is. Like, you gotta. You know, you gotta stay together and do it, but support each other when your kids are right there. Because that's what we need to do as parents. We have to show them that we're united. You know, my kids joke. I don't know. A few years ago, there's a Meghan Trainor song called no. And it was like, my name is no. My sign is no. My number is no. You need to let it go. Okay. That was me. Like, seriously. It was like, every time the kids would ask me something, I was like, no.

And they were like, no, I need lunch money. No. Mom, can I. No.

No. Because, I mean, it was like, especially if it came to, like, you know, asking for something that they knew my answer would probably, you know, that I wasn't gonna necessarily agree with. They knew it was no. And eventually they started just asking Dave, like he said. And so I've really had to step back and say, okay, what have Dave and I agreed are the values that we want our kids to have together? Does this go with the values we have as a family? And if it does, if it kind of meets along those values, those things we stand for in a family, I need to give more yeses, because I think I'm so prone to no. And in the same way, Dave's tried to reel it back and say, I'm not gonna be such a softie.

Yep.

I'm gonna stand my ground more, you know, and so we've. You know, over the years, we've done different things to kind of help us get on the same page when it comes to parenting. We've shared this before in some of our blogs and different videos that we've done, but we went to a couple in church, and this was Dave's idea, and I thought it was a brilliant idea. But he asked me one day when I was just super frustrated. He had said yes to something that I had already said no to to the kids. And he didn't know I said no, but he said yes. And then it was kind of like we were in this conundrum, and I was just like, ah. And so, you know, he was like.

And that causes stress when there's a lack of unity in your marriage, when you're feeling like you're being worked against each other, when you're out of sync, that is gonna cause so much stress, that's gonna trickle down, and it's gonna impact every part of the relationship. And I just. I'm like, I've gotta get rid of this stress. Like, I want. I want there to be joy and unity, and I don't want her to be mad at me.

Well, he said, I can see in your eyes that you're starting to resent me and my decisions as a parent. And honestly, you guys, I was. I mean, I love Dave to death, but this one area was so frustrating for me, and I hated the way that I was feeling, because I know he's a great man. I know he's a great parent. I know he wants the same things I want. But I felt like, man, we are, you know, not on the same page. And then back then, I really felt like he's not supporting me, like. And I. It was just really a hard time. I mean, we were trying to work through that. So Dave said, sweetie, listen, I don't want us to keep on going around in circles on this one issue. He said, how about you tell me a family in church that we know that is, you know, years beyond us in this parenting thing? And tell me, you know, is there a family that you look at? And you're like, you know, I would love for our family to be like this family one day where they have a great marriage and they have kids that love God and, you know, like each other, want to be with their parents and have, you know, want to serve the world and make a difference. Like, is there a family like that? And I said yes. I think Todd and Stacy, Lore and I hope they're listening. We love them.

Hey, Todd and Stacy.

Hey, Todd and Stacy. They have four kids just like us. They're grown now. And I was like, you know, I love their family dynamic. Maybe we can talk to them. And he said, yes. Let's invite them over for dinner. Let's tell them that we just want to kind of pick their brain and talk to them about parenting. And so I honestly, my first thought was, they're so busy, they're probably going to say no. And, you know, honestly, I wasn't expecting them to be able to do it. Well, Dave asked them, and they were, like, so quick to say yes. And in fact, they were excited.

Excited. They wanted to share their wisdom. And when you ask them someone and you're genuine in it, I want to learn from you. I'm not trying to backdoor trying to sell you something. This isn't a bait and switch. I want to learn from you. I want some of your wisdom. I just want to ask some questions. I'm telling you 99% of the time, if there's any way in their schedule they can do it, that person will be honored. Honored by that request to say, yeah, I'd be happy to share with you some of what I know to help you out. And they were. They were honored. They were. I mean, I would be honored and like, someday, you know, and folks ask us similar things as it relates more to marriage, just in the season that we're in. And as the kids get older, I'm hoping that it will be for parenting as well. And in fact, there was one yesterday. I had a friend reach out to me and text me.

That's right. And he was so honored.

He was like, hey, I'm sorry to bother you, but it was this parenting question he gave this predicament that he was in, and it was about how to teach a child, discipline a child in a very specific area. And it started a dialogue. And I was so honored, I didn't feel the least bit interrupted. I was honored that he thought enough of me to want to reach out and ask my perspective on it. So never say no for people. Like, on a side note, I don't want to jump down that rabbit hole, but never Say, I don't want to bother. Then they will say no. Don't say no for them. Ask them and you'll be amazed at how many yeses you get. And so sorry to interrupt you there.

But no, no, but it's so true. I mean, because I was quick to be like, no, no, I don't wanna bother them. They're probably too busy. And da, da, da, da. Well, they ended up saying yes quickly. We had em over for dinner, we told em what was going on. And we just learned from them. I mean, Todd and Stacy both were just kind of telling us from a wise perspective how to navigate this. And really they just kind of, you know, told us about some ways that we can get back on the same page and how we need to support one another, how we, you know, these things that we're teaching you today, a lot of it is what we learned from them. And it was such a great healing thing for us. And we went back to them at least one more time. And we see them at church all the time too, when we lived in Georgia. And they've been such just a fountain of wisdom for us. And it's so nice knowing we have somebody, you know, kind of in our corner that we can go to. And a lot of you listening are probably like, well, why didn't you go to your parents? Or why didn't you go to a family member? And I will tell you this, I'm sure your family members have tons of wisdom. But when it comes to something where you and your spouse are in a tiff and you're having issues, I don't necessarily recommend going to your parents because they remember, especially if it's something your spouse said to you that was hurtful or if they did something, it's very hard for them to forget that and they kind of hold it against them. It's just kind of part of being a parent. We get that mama bear, papa bear mentality. And so it was nice with Todd and Stacy. They love us both. They love God, they love us. They're pro marriage. They were good people to go to because they're not related to us. You know, they can kind of see this from more of a neutral perspective. And so it was nice to have them help us through this. And I would call them till this day. I know that if we had an issue that I could call them up and they would help us. And I love that about them.

No, it's so good. So thank you for Todd and Stacy and for all the mentors we've had along the way. Now, as we prepare to wrap up, we're coming in right. Kind of near the start of Christmas break. Had a great episode recently. Encourage you to go listen to with Cassie, who we talked about holiday stress and freeing yourself of the pressure of trying to do it all. But then at the same time, we do want to do some things to really celebrate Christmas. Those of you who are listening right now, as this is coming out at Christmas time, especially with the kids out of school, not letting the stress of being out of the routine throw us off and really finding. Creating opportunities to celebrate the season, to go into that special Christmas service at church, to go in to see the Christmas lights, then maybe just getting some hot chocolate, going on a drive, seeing the lights, not feeling like you gotta do everything. But how do you manage the stress of being out of the routine and also carve out some time to really create some special Christmas family memories this year.

Yeah, I think what we need to remember is we don't have to do it all. You know, I think it's perfectly fine that there's a lot of veg time during Christmas break. I mean, I fully. Our family, we used to feel like we had to do it all, and we realized that was, like, killing us.

Yeah, we veg with the best of them.

We veg with the best of them. We do. We love to veg when it's appropriate to veg. Right. And. And we really embrace that during school breaks. It's so nice because, you know, we can be so busy, especially when school's in session and you have work and all these different things. But when you have some days off work and your kids are home, veg a little. Just have time. Watching Christmas movies, get some Hallmark movies on. I guarantee you they're on because they're, like, constantly on right now. And. And just have time together, like Dave said. You know, put on some Christmas music, sing those tunes together. But I also think it's a great opportunity to find a local place where you guys can serve together. I know churches offer a lot of these opportunities, but there's also all kinds of places, like soup kitchens, different places where you can serve and help the community in some way. I know we're planning on doing that with our family, and we always love it when we do that.

And serving is an antidote to stress.

Absolutely.

We don't naturally think of it because we're all, myself included. We're selfish by nature. And our first thought is, and how can I go serve somebody else? But what happens is our Own stress disappears, and we take the focus off of us. And together, especially as a family, we find a way to serve together. So, sweetie, that's probably the best nugget of advice this whole podcast. I hope people have listened. If you're still listening, thank you for sticking with us.

That's right.

And put that one into action. Go and serve together. As we prepare to wrap up, a few quick announcements. Here's a little gift for you this Christmas. And that is if you pre order our Naked Marriage book, you can go to nakedmarriagebook.com you'll be the first to get it when the book comes out in February. But you'll also get some instant goodies, including a download of our book, the Naked Truth About Sex, which you can instantly start putting into practice, and it can be a real hot night tonight. Plus, two of our XO Marriage conference sessions. Two of the most popular talks we've done around marriage and sex has been part of those. And we have also talked about being best friends with your spouse and other tips. So, sweetie, why are you excited about this whole book project?

Because I just feel like it's gonna take your marriage to a whole new level. You know, the whole foundation of the Naked Marriage book is that we need to be vulnerable with one another, that we need to be open and honest and transparent. And when we're not, we're really missing out on the kind of naked marriage that God really wants us to have. And so when you read this book, it's gonna help you to open up like you never have before. And it's gonna enhance every single aspect of your marriage and your family. And that is literally what makes us get up every morning and do this. Because that excites us, man.

It excites us. And what else excites us is you guys. Listening, watching, sending in your questions, rating this podcast, sharing this podcast. And together, as we spread the word, we are helping build and encourage marriages. And it means so much to be in partnership with each of you guys. You can find more of our resources@marriagetoday.com and we'll look forward to connecting with you at the next Naked Marriage episode.

Bye, guys.