Live at XO 2019

Hey, guys. We are so excited about today's podcast. You get to join us live at XO 2019. So let's dive in. All right. Welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And, my darling, right now we are in a really unique podcast setting. We are live at the EXO Marriage Conference, Gateway Church's Southlake campus. There are 4,000 of our best friends here. That's right. And this is just really cool. Cool.

This is XO 2019 doing something unique where we are taking their questions right now. So we are so excited to dive into some of these questions here.

That's right. We got an iPad here. And real quick, if you guys ever want to communicate with us, reach out to us. Obviously, the podcast is a great way to do it, but I'm going to give you our email address. This isn't like an email address that goes to some assistant that we never see. I want you guys to be able to contact us directly. And it's real simple. It's davewillisarriagetoday.com ashleywillisarriagetoday dot com send us whatever questions, whatever you want to send us, and we will read that, and we would love to correspond with you that way. Also, want to give a quick plug to the new book, the Naked Marriage. You guys can pull out your phone right now if you want and go to Amazon.com and order this thing. We're so excited to share this book with the world. It's our story, but more importantly, it's the story of what God wants to do in your marriage. And. And 100% of the proceeds from the Naked Marriage book go back into the ministry of marriage today. And xo, so when you buy this, not only are you helping your marriage, but you are investing and continuing this important work to help marriages across the globe. And so thank you so much. Thank you so much for reading that and for sharing that. All right, so let's get to the questions.

Got our first question here. It says, how do I develop vulnerability in my marriage? And I know we touched on this a little bit last night, but vulnerability is this word that I feel like has become, like, kind of a scary word in our culture. You know, I think we are taught from a very young age that we really can't trust anybody. And I think even some parents who are meaning well will even kind of instill this in their kids because they don't want their kids to get Hurt. And so we have this epidemic of people going into their marriage kind of half hearted, and they'll even have, like, exit strategies going into the marriage. But when we do that, we're really setting ourselves up for a lot of disappointment and ultimately failure. Or maybe even just a distant marriage where you're just sticking it out, but you're not really connecting.

So.

So how do we become vulnerable? I think really the first way we become vulnerable is just through communication. And I know we throw this word around a lot, and it sounds like, well, of course you just want us to talk. But when I say talk or communicate with each other, I think it needs to be more than just like, the business talk. I think it's so easy, especially with kids and busy jobs, to fall into this kind of negative dynamic of just taking care of the kids and talking about the kids, taking care of the finances, talking about that. But really, when it comes down to it, you're never talking about your hopes, your dreams, your fears, or anything you're struggling with. And I think when we hold back from really connecting on a deeper level that way, on a daily basis, okay. And it doesn't have to be lengthy, but on a daily basis, talk through these deeper things. I think that you'll start to see your marriage change. Because when you're vulnerable with each other, even if it's about the hard stuff, the messy stuff like we just talked about. Cause it really gets messy when you're vulnerable. And, you know, we were just talking to a couple just today that said they had a fight last night because the talks from yesterday really started opening them up to kind of needing to talk about some hard things. And they said, you know what, though? It's okay because we actually are talking about it. And, you know, having a disagreement isn't a bad thing. But when you can disagree in a respectful way and talk about the hard stuff, your marriage is gonna go to a whole new level.

And that's good. You know, you are so cute when you talk. Also, I was just noticing, not only so wise, so, so wise, but I was taking pictures of you over here. Just because I'm like, she is just.

She is a nut.

She is just beautiful when she's teaching. So. And that's great advice. I mean, I hope that's. That's great advice about vulnerability, which is really the key, the cornerstone of a naked marriage.

Yes.

All right, number two, this is a good one. How do you admonish or correct your spouse without coming across as critical?

That word admonish. I mean, does that not like. Like, drop the mic, admonish, you know, we need to use that word more, right?

Yeah, but it's.

But probably not when it comes to.

Right. Critical.

Because some people not like that.

Some people criticize their spouse and they just think, well, I'm just being honest. I'm just calling it like it is. If he wasn't being such a slob, I wouldn't call him a slob. You know? And we're like, the Bible says, I got speak the truth. Here's what the Bible says. It says, speak the truth in love. And some of us think that we have the spiritual gift of criticism, which isn't actually a spiritual gift.

You can look it up.

It's not.

It's not.

Encouragement is. Encouragement is a spiritual gift. And yeah, there are times in love that we have to correct. But because if your spouse is being vulnerable with you, which is what you want, that's where love really lives. It also means that vulnerability is giving somebody else the ability to hurt you, and they're trusting you with that. And if you misuse that trust and that vulnerability, it's gonna shut off your marriage. Because almost every man and every woman carries around insecurities that we don't verbalize out loud. Most men carry around an insecurity that we ask ourselves this question. Does my wife believe in me? Does my wife think that I'm capable? Does my wife trust my judgment? Does my wife respect me? We ask ourselves this in every different way. And every criticism wives you give your husband, it chips away at that vulnerability in his heart. Now, women have vulnerabilities too. Hers goes something like this. Would my husband still choose me? Does my husband adore me? Does my husband have eyes only for me? Would my husband lay down his life for me the way that Christ calls husbands to? And guys, every criticism you give her, she is playing it against that reel in her mind of those insecurities that are deep within her heart as a wife. And we gotta be so sensitive to that. And when, if there is a spirit of criticism that's happening in your marriage, or sarcasm or negativity or cynicism, and you might think, well, I'm just calling it like I see it. I think sometimes we don't call it like we see it. We're looking through a broken lens. We all think that we have this perception of reality the way that it is, but really, oftentimes we don't. I'm going to do a quick experiment for the live studio audience and for those listening to the Podcast. You can actually do this. You can still do this and kind of follow along. Unless you're driving, don't close your eyes because that's part of this in a minute. But I'm going to give you guys in this room and those watching right now and those listening right now, five seconds to look around. Wherever you are, look all around. In five seconds, I want you to find every. You can find every red exit sign, every. Not yet. I have a stack counting yet. Jesus sees you cheating in church. But as soon as I say go, I want you to look every red purse, every red shoe, every red hat, and mentally catalog it. And then when I say stop, I want you to stop. We're gonna close our eyes and we're gonna see. We're gonna see what you saw. All right? Ready? Go. Look for red. Red exit sign, red shirt, red hat, red shoe. Red, red, red. And stop. Close your eyes. This only works if you're closing your eyes.

All eyes closed now.

Out loud, you perceptive people. Out loud. I want you to tell me everything you blue.

I know.

Open your eyes. Look around. There's rooms full of blue. There's more blue than red. And you didn't see it. And why didn't you see it? Same reason we don't see most things. You were looking for something else. Jesus said, whatever you seek, the verb tense he used in the Greek is, whatever you keep on seeking is what you will find. If all you see in your spouse is reasons to criticize, it's all you'll see.

It's true.

But if you will let the Holy Spirit renew your mind and change your thinking, you will approach your spouse with a spirit of gratitude and respect and honor and affirmation. And you say, lord, help me to find reasons to praise. Help me to find reasons to give thanks. I'm telling you, you'll see it at every turn. And so ask God to change it. Lord, help me stop looking for the red and to see the blue. Help me, Lord, to see the good that's right in front of me. It will change the tone of your words, will shape the tone of your marriage. It really will.

Absolutely. And I would even venture to say, too, don't only look for those things. Call out those things in your spouse. I mean, you need to call them out. And sometimes it's looking for the most. Like, what you think is insignificant, but to them, it could mean the world. Because the more you praise your spouse, the more you compliment them and encourage them, the more they know you believe in them. So when you do have something that is very serious that you need to come to them and say, hey, I'm noticing something that could hurt you and hurt us, and I wanna talk about it. It's not gonna feel like an attack. It's gonna feel like something you're concerned about because you care. But when you're always cutting em down, you're literally just hacking away at their confidence. They're not gonna really wanna listen, and they're gonna feel like you're just out to get them. It's really kind of put you in a position where you're fighting against each other instead of fighting for each other. But when you choose to call out those good things, they know that you're for them and you're assuming the best in them. And so they're gonna have more of an ability to listen and to really start making those changes that need to happen.

Yeah, that's a good word. And that's the admonishing part that I kind of skipped over the actual question. But that's so important. There are times you have to do it. But the more, like Ashley said, your spouse knows you're for them and you love them, you've built up that trust. The more that when you do have to kind of speak words of some loving correction, they're gonna be open to that. All right, next one's a good one. How do you make sex fun and different and godly at the same time?

This is a great question, man.

I'm.

Thank you for asking it.

Thank you for asking. I think first you need to invest in a curling iron. If you were here last year.

If you were here last year, you know what we're talking about.

No, that's it.

So, yeah, don't take anything off the table. No, I'm just kidding. No, you know, I'm waiting.

Yeah, I was ready to dive in.

But actually I was ready to jump on it.

I want to hear what you have to say.

Well, honestly, I think this is the thing. He's going to record me and be like, you said this last year. Okay. Sex was created by God. And I think so many times, thank you, Jesus. Like, so many times we act like it's something that is just of the world and it's this dirty thing. And it's like, no, God created sex for married couples. And so as Christians, we need to proclaim that. Like, we need to be excited about that. And it's not a bad thing. And you know, some of you. Yes, I know. I love it. Some of you maybe grew up in homes like I did, okay, where your parents and maybe even your pastors in your life would talk about sex negatively because they wanted you to be scared to death to have it outside of marriage. Okay, it worked for me, okay? But when you grow up like that and then you get married and suddenly, you know, it's like, okay, sex is good. It's really hard to flip that switch, and it's really hard to not keep on looking at it as a dirty, shameful thing. Or maybe you have a past where before you were a Christian or before you realized what sex was meant for, you kind of did things you're very ashamed of. And so you've brought that to the marriage, and that's all you can feel and all you can think about. And so I get it that sometimes, even as Christians, you know, sex carries some shame with it. But I wanna remind you of this, that as a married couple, it is a beautiful gift from God that can only happen between a husband and a wife. It's meant for the two of you, and it's something that can bring you closer together like nothing else. And so we need to see it as something that's beautiful and it can be fun. And we talk often. We've had some podcasts about this, some blogs about this. You know, people often ask, like, are there any things that are off the table? And, you know, we're a bunch of adults in here, so we're gonna talk very openly about it. And I would tell you that God gives you a lot of room, okay? He gives you a lot of room. If you don't believe me. I know. He's like, I'm gonna record this if you don't believe me.

I'm just so excited right now. Like, I can't believe this happening.

It's a dream.

This is like, I feel like I'm in this awesome dream where I have thousands and thousands of witnesses. And Ashley's saying, go for it.

Cloud of witnesses right here. Okay, no. If you don't believe me, read the book of Song of Solomon. It is steamy. Oh, yeah, it is awesome. And they're just passionately pursuing one another. And so you, as a couple, have to talk about your desires. You have to talk about what you like, what you don't like. And when you talk openly about this, and sex is something good, sex is something that you are excited about, that you want to see, satisfy your spouse, that it's not something you're just thinking about yourself. It's a beautiful thing. And it also protects us from Wanting to look outside the marriage. And we want to be protecting our spouse. We wanna protect each other. And so we need to foster the gift of sex. So that means we need to have it often. It's gonna look different for every couple. Okay. Some people ask us all the time to give them a number. I will never do that because I'm gonna get lots of emails from angry people and maybe people who are really excited.

You mean like a frequency number?

Yeah, frequency, yes. Like, how often fre. But, like, I won't ever put a number on it. We'll just say a lot. And I wanna say this. It's a great opportunity to really talk to each other. And I would even challenge you to do this, too. And we read this in a book years ago called His Needs, Her Needs. It's been around forever. But in our premarital counseling, I remember reading this. It said, it really would be good if every couple would really try to meet the needs of the one at frequency wise who has the greater desire for frequency. And the reason is because it helps to protect the marriage. And some of you are rolling your eyes right now. I totally get it, okay? But this is the reason.

What do you mean? I totally get it?

Well, I'll be honest. I'll be honest.

Yeah.

In our relationship, Dave has the greater need for frequency. And it's not always the man. It can be the woman. Okay, I get this. We're just very honest. It's. There's probably way more than you wanted to know, but it's something that kind of helps you work it out. But I wanna say the person. The person who has the greater frequency. This doesn't give you a license to be like, I want it now. We're gonna do it now. Okay? You cannot use sex as a bargaining tool as a way to manipulate your spouse. It is a gift. Okay? It's a gift. It's a way to serve one another. It's a way to come together and really talk through things and really connect on a deeper level.

Man, that was amazing.

I don't think you've ever heard me talk about sex.

That was like, the best five minutes of my life. That was great. But I will say. I will say in hearing some of that, maybe there are some guys or some wives out there that are like, okay, I can pressure you to do whatever I want whenever I want. That is so not the spirit of the vulnerability and the love and the trust that has to happen in the bedroom and in all places in your marriage. And so don't pressure don't put this pressure on each other. You know, look at, like, sex is in all things, is a way to serve each other. But don't make it about this pressure. Don't make your spouse feel inadequate because they're not comfortable with certain things or that you want to do. You have to have the trust and the vulnerability to be able to say, you know what? I'm not comfortable with this because, you know, because of, you know, maybe how you were raised or something that happened in your past or. Or maybe the fact, like in our situation where I had this past problem with pornography. And you're trying to cleanse your mind of these images and guys, you should never, ever, ever, even if that's something that's part of your past, try to get your spouse to act out these twisted fantasies that came from that dark and poisonous world of pornography. It has to be a safe and a sacred place for both people. That's the way that God intended it. And I would say, you know, Ashley said, meet the need of the spouse who has the greater desire, or to at least aim.

Aim for that, Aim for that.

I would say, not only in sex, but when it comes to communicate, conversation. One of you wants to talk a lot. One of you wants to talk a little. Meet the need of the spouse that has the greater desire. When it comes to communication, I would say, when it comes to every part of your marriage, try to meet the need of the spouse that has the greater desire. Cuddling.

I'm trying.

Meet the need of the spouse who has the greater desire.

But it isn't on to serve. It's not to serve one another meeting.

In the middle, all this like, oh, we meet in the middle. We're 50. 50. Marriage isn't 50. 50 divorce is 50. 50 divorce is splitting everything in half. Marriage is 100. 100. It's saying, I'm giving you my best. I'm giving you 100% of myself. Even. Even in those moments when you don't reciprocate. Because love isn't a reciprocal transaction.

That's right.

Love is given my best because I'm so wholeheartedly committed to you. It's what God's done for me, so it's what I wanna do for you. So treat your spouse not the way your spouse treats you. That's the world's way. I'll be good to you when you're good to me. God calls us as followers of Christ. Treat your spouse the way God treats you. Give them your best when they're at their worst. That's love. That's what God does for us. And it only takes one spouse to start the process of transforming a marriage when they really follow God's plan. And God will often use that to soften the other spouse's heart. And I'm not just talking about in the area of sex. This is in all parts of the marriage. So.

And I wanna say this too. We're getting a lot of questions about porn because it is a big part of our story and kind of how to get through that. And, you know, I wanna say, especially when it comes to sex, I always get questions about this, especially from women whose husbands have maybe had a porn addiction or porn habit. They always say, like, how did you eventually start making love again? Because. Because suddenly sex is an ugly thing. And I totally get that. Like, when I found those images on our computer all those years ago, I mean, I was just disgusted. I was hurt. I felt very inadequate. And I thought, why does he feel like he needs to go and look at these things? And then I felt a little bit like, what did I do wrong? Which, just to make this very clear, you didn't do anything wrong to make your husband go look at porn. I wanna make that crystal clear, okay? It's just sin and it's temptation, but I had all these host of feelings, and I called Dave and I. I just said, do you have something to tell me? He immediately knew what I was talking.

About, and he told me, hey, guys, if your wife ever calls you and says, do you have something to tell me? Just start confessing. In second grade, I stole a candy bar. In third grade, she already knows. Just.

She knows it.

Just get it out.

That's right.

You'll feel better. Get it out. You'll feel better.

And so he did. I mean, he did. And it was honestly, like, the most awful thing and the greatest thing all at once. Because I had known for a long time something was off, and finally I knew what it was. And so, you know, I had all kinds of feelings. And I had to really choose in that moment to forgive Dave so that we could work towards healing. Because if I didn't forgive him, and I every day chose to just hold the porn addiction over his head and say, like, you're damaged. And how dare you do this to me? You took a vow to me. I can't believe you were lusting after those women. Like, if I just did that every day, our marriage wouldn't be. We wouldn't be up here talking to you guys. It would have destroyed us. I had to choose to forgive that day, because God forgives me every day. I mean, I have had so many times where I don't deserve forgiveness or grace. I mean, pretty much every day of my life, I need God's grace. And so, in the same way, I knew I had to give Dave my forgiveness, because if I didn't give him forgiveness, he could not rebuild my trust in him. And I knew that, especially when it came to our marriage bed, it was gonna be real empty, in a really cold place because of my hurt and because of what he did. And so we chose to walk the path of healing, and there was forgiveness. He started rebuilding the trust. And I will tell you, when there is some kind of infidelity or a porn addiction or something that directly goes against physical intimacy, it can really mess with you. And you can want to have nothing to do with each other for a while. But we really chose to go against that. And I think it's an opportunity to talk about it. And Dave was very patient with me. I had to feel comfortable. I think when it comes to sex, it can never be something that you're forcing. It can never be something that you're guilted into or that you're feeling pressured to do. Like Dave mentioned earlier, it really needs to be something where you're coming together, you're being vulnerable, you're talking through those feelings, but you're also actively trying to get back to having sex be an important part of your marriage. And if you don't make that an important part, you'll really start to feel it. I mean, I. You know, sometimes we've met with couples, and there's just this harshness in the room, and they're kind of going at each other all the time, just nitpicking at each other. And when we start talking about sex, and we're like, when was the last time you had sex? It's been, like, months or it's been years. And, I mean, you'll really start just totally rubbing each other the wrong way and seeing each other in a negative light, like Dave was just talking about a little bit ago. And so it's really important that we do our best to make sex a priority and to deal with those issues that are affecting our sex life.

And Ashley had some just nuggets of wisdom in there. And I think one that we can hold onto in marriage is to realize that forgiveness and trust are two different things. And biblically, forgiveness means giving somebody a grace that they don't deserve. Nobody deserves forgiveness, but yet it's a Free gift of grace that cannot be earned. And it has to be given instantly, really. We give our trust, our forgiveness instantly. We give our trust more slowly and carefully. And so if your spouse has broken your trust, you have to give them your forgiveness instantly. And what does forgiveness mean? It doesn't mean what you did didn't hurt. It doesn't mean even you're off the hook. What it means is because of what God has done for me and because I love you, I'm choosing to lay down my right to get revenge and instead choose restoration. I'm choosing to pursue healing instead of bitterness. I'm giving up the right to hold this over your head as leverage or ammunition in the future. I'm freeing both of us of this. It was St. Augustine who said, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and then hoping the other person dies. And there are so many people in marriages that are just gulping on poison of spite and bitterness toward their spouse. And it's only hurting you, and then it's poisoning your marriage. And you have to let the Holy Spirit bring cleansing and healing to you. Freedom. And sometimes the forgiveness isn't a one time choice. It's a minute by minute when you want to grab a hold of it again, saying, God, you got to take this. I can't hold onto it. I don't want bitterness to take root in my heart. And God will bring freedom and peace to you and it'll allow the process of trust to be rebuilt. And trust is built like Jimmy preached yesterday. It's built in drops. It can be lost in buckets. You build it a drop at a time through consistency, consistency. And give each other the benefit of the doubt in those situations. And you will get there. But I think one of the biggest things we need to do as a church, as a husband, as a wife, is to be willing to let go, let go of those past hurts that just keep coming to the surface because you're gonna find so much freedom. And as a kind of a quick side note before we move into wrapping up, I know that in a podcast like this, in a conference like the one that we're here live in right now, there's so many things happening, there's so many things coming at you that it's like, man, there's so much information, I don't know where to start. And the temptation is to have your head full of all this stuff and to kind of have this sort of like amazing emotional experience, but then go home and nothing looks any different other than we put it on the calendar to come next year, and I hope that you do.

That's awesome.

But if you want your marriage to look different next year, pick one thing. Pick one thing that you're gonna do every day that's different. That one thing might be, we're gonna carve out 30 minutes a night when the kids are in bed. We're gonna talk 30 minutes uninterrupted. No phones every night. And then that one thing mean we're gonna put a date night on the calendar. That one thing means we're gonna maybe get in a. We're gonna read a marriage book together. Pick one thing and do it consistently, and your marriage will look different this time next year. You won't have to come frustrated next year saying, we learned all this stuff, but then we went home and everything was the exact same. So before you leave here, pick your one thing.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, just pick one thing. Cause it is. It's like a fire hydrant of knowledge, right? And you're just. Your head's spinning and you're like, this is all good stuff. But I don't know what to do. So, yeah, I suggest, you know, a lot of times we go to conferences, you'll take a lot of notes, and when you get home, you feel like you gotta put it into practice right away. I challenge you. Just take a week debrief and then come back to your notes and go through and think, okay, what are those few little nuggets that I know we can apply practically every day and that it will make a difference in our marriage? Because, I mean, it's definitely just. It could be the smallest thing, like you said, putting the kids to bed early that makes all the difference. Or maybe committing to having a regular date night that can make all the difference. So, yeah, definitely, we could just talk to you guys all day. You guys are the best audience. You guys are listening and sending in questions.

So. And stay connected to us, you know, through email, through, you know, Instagram, David Ashley Willis on Facebook, you can find us. Wherever you are, you can find us. And check out the Naked Marriage podcast. If you're. Even if you're not a podcast listener, we hope it blesses you. One final plug for the book. Get the Naked Marriage book. I really feel like it could be a blessing to your marriage, and it's going to help this ministry you're investing in, this ministry of building stronger marriages when you purchase it. Thank you guys so much for being here. Thanks for listening, podcast listeners. God bless you guys. We'll see you next time. God bless you guys.

We'll see you next time.

Ashley and I had so much fun doing that live Q and A at this year's XO 2019 marriage conference. And we want to give you full and complete access to the entire video library from everything that happened at XO 2019, including all of the main sessions from Jimmy Evans, from Ashley and me, from a lot of great community communicators like, like Jefferson Bethke, Dr. Les Parrott, Bianca Oltoff, Pastor Mike Todd, and many, many others. But beyond that, even if you were at the event and you want to relive those main sessions, we also want to give you access to behind the scenes interviews with all those communicators that really take their content to the next level. The only place you can get full and complete access to XO 2019 is through our streaming service called XO Now. If you sign up for a one year subscription, you will get full access to XO 2019. But when you sign up for XO now, not only will you get that access to 2019 XO, you're also going to get the full catalog of all of marriage today's video content. This is thousands of hours from Jimmy Evans, from Ashley and me, and from many other communicators teaching on marriage and conferences and workshops and in a variety of other settings. I think this is one of the best investments you can make for your marriage. It's. It's inexpensive considering the impact that it can make, and it's going to support the work of marriage today to help us continue to produce resources to build marriages all across the world. So thank you so much for partnering with us in this. Thanks for being part of the Naked Marriage podcast and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.