Marriage Triggers

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we have got an awesome episode.

For you all today.

Yeah, it's a great topic. You know, marriage triggers, those little things that can just trigger an angry response and keep you in a perpetual cycle of negativity or conflict. And our friends Guy and Amber Leah have written a new book on that topic. It's called Marriage Triggers. And they have graciously agree to do an interview with us today to just have a conversation with some really practical tools that I think are gonna help you and your spouse. Because every couple has some marriage triggers, and learning to navigate them well makes all the difference. So let's dive into today's conversation. Black Friday Savings are here at the.

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Guys, I am so very excited to be interviewing this couple. I actually just recently got to meet Amber in person, and she is even more lovely in person. I just. I'm telling you, they both have such wisdom. We are going to talk about marriage triggers today. So welcome, Amber and Guy.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you for having us.

So happy to be on with you guys.

Yeah, we are so excited about this topic, too, because in the work that we do, we see all the time the triggers that couples have, these little things that seemingly are little that end up causing these huge outbursts, these huge emotional responses. And when we don't get to the root of them and don't identify them and work through them in a healthy way, it can really, really cause a lot of trouble. I mean, even King Solomon said in the Bible, it's the little foxes that spoil the vine. You know, sometimes we're looking for these huge, big things in marriage, like an affair. And of course, that's something that we should safeguard against. But often what kind of creates the most tension in a marriage, it's these little foxes. It's these little triggers, these little nitpicky things or these little things that happen that might expose old wounds or old habits that's just so hard to work through and. And the way that you guys in your research and in your book, kind of give couples real tools to navigate that I just think is so healthy and something every couple could benefit from.

Yeah. Thank you. Well, you know, it's interesting, you know, you mentioned, Dave, that there are these little things that really can build and become big issues. Bigger issues. And it's so true. Guy and I experienced that in our own marriage. And when I first started stepping, studying about anger and frustration as a mom, which is where the Lord really began to work and transform me, I began to have a mind shift about all of these triggers. That these triggers could do one of two things. They could definitely cause anger, frustration, conflict, a lack of peace in my parenting or in my marriage. Or I could start viewing them as how I think God wanted me to actually view them, which was opportunities that these triggers would become actually opportunities for me to grow and for my children to grow and for my husband to grow. That it was really God saying to me, okay, you're starting to get impatient and aggravated. This is an opportunity for you, Amber, to grow in patience, to learn ways to use these circumstances to refine you and to grow you and to actually make both your parenting relationship and even your marriage relationship stronger as a result. So when I started looking at these triggers, these little things, more in a positive light as to how God could use them to change my life, really, everything changed in my relationships, in my home as well.

I love that. I love that. And I love how, you know, especially when it comes to these triggers. And the message of your book is that we don't have to just allow our reactions to kind of rule our home. Like, our feelings and our reactions rule our home, that we have more control over these things, and that God and the Holy Spirit specifically will help to lead us to have better reactions. And so, like, for you guys in particular, you've been married 14 years. You have four boys. Dave likes to say you're part of Club Quattro having four kids. And not only that, but four boys. It's like, you know, I love being able to talk to you all because I feel like we can relate on so many levels. But, you know, in your. In your early years of marriage, what in particular, like, what were those triggers that really got you all?

Yeah, I guess I'll jump in. I really felt like. I always thought when I was getting married that I was prepared for being married and prepared for being a parent. And I think that early on I found. Well, I mean, Amber and I, we got pregnant within three months or so after our marriage. So we literally went from trying to be a married couple into switching our focus completely towards parenting. And for me, that was a really, really sudden and big shift for me that I was ill prepared for. So instead of really having a strong foundation built going into that, I didn't do that. And so I became someone who reacted to the things that were happening versus being prepared with the responses that I would need when situations came up. And that even means we didn't even get to do marriage counseling because of a number of different things that kind of fell apart. So we didn't have an opportunity to talk out a lot of issues. Not just the basics, not just the, you know, finances and sex and, you know, some of these things that are really common talked about in premarital counseling. But there's other things about, like, parenting, like, how do we parent differently or what does it look like to make the sacrifice of being a parent to you and what is your vision and what are you bringing into the relationship? So instead of being prepared with responses and ready for those things, I just reacted to very. To many of these things. And a lot of times, I kind of shut down. And I think that that was one of the big problems early on in our relationship was that I was unable to communicate my feelings with Amber. And I just tried to put one foot in front of the other and just tried to, you know, survive. In many ways, you know, I think.

You touched on something that's so true. You know, not everyone responds to stress or responds to frustration in the same way. Like, for some, it is an outburst. It's yelling, you know, but for others, it's the shutting down. And both can cause a lot of problems in marriage because either one, you know, it can. If you're yelling at each other, it can be really toxic, and it's disrespectful, and it's hurtful. But also, if you're shutting down, it becomes a cold place. It becomes a place of disconnection instead of connection. And. And so, yeah, I love that. And I know that there's people listening who are totally relating to the whole parenting thing. I mean, Dave and I, that was.

Part of our story.

That was honestly one of our marriage triggers for a long time.

Big, big.

Yeah, I would say a big one. That we had such different personalities as it related to how we should discipline the kids and how we, you know, I was the yes man. Like, I would end up saying yes to everything, and so they would ask me stuff, you know, intentionally not asking her. And so then when I would say yes, not really thinking through it. And then actually.

Because you're just nicer than me.

I'm not nicer than you. I'm just. I'm wimpier than you, is the thing. No, no, no. But it created a lot of tension. We had to. Eventually we connected with a mentor couple, which helped us a lot to work through that. It's like, let's find someone who's doing this that we're struggling with, doing it in a healthy way that's further along, and that really helped us a lot. So I think that parenting issue, I can see there can be a lot of marriage triggers within that. I love the research that you guys had in your book where you identified 31 very common marital issues that can be triggers for folks and give practical examples of how to work through it. And very common types of triggers, like poor communication, lack of spiritual leadership, busy schedules, different parenting styles. What do you feel like are the ones that. In the work that you're doing that you see are maybe some of the most common and maybe the most kind of understood, underreported, you know, maybe things people don't really look at as a trigger, they just think it's part of life and it's something they're going to have to deal with. But. But what are some of those things that you wish you could point to and say, okay, every couple, beware of these few triggers that if you let them keep going, it's. It's going to potentially cause a lot of pain down the road?

Well, we really do. We. We spent years talking with couples and just working through our own marriage relationships. But also, you know, I. I'd first written a book for parenting triggers, and so as a result of that, everywhere I went, I would hear parents say, okay, this has really transformed my parenting toward more gentle, biblical parenting. But I just need something for my marriage that really speaks specifically to these issues for Guy and I, and we. We write. One of the chapters in the book is when you're married to a backseat driver. I mean, some of our common fights happened because we were in the car on the way somewhere, and I was a backseat driver. I admit, I testified you and Ashley.

Could start a support group.

Yes, yes.

We're not saying that we have fixed all of these triggers in our marriage, but we now have the tools to deal with them.

We know how to respond to them instead of react. But even things like backseat driving can be an issue. But really, honestly, I think one of the root Issues for throughout the book that we address the issue of communication in many of the chapters. So there is a specific chapter on communication in particular, and that was clearly an issue for Guy and I, and I think it's an issue for many. I've run into a lot of women who typically are afraid of confrontation with their spouse, with their husband. They are unwilling to gently, biblically confront them on issues. And likewise, those conversations are difficult even if you're not afraid of confrontation. And it's not a pleasant thing. And we've only got so many hours in the day, so who really wants to spend your evening getting into it about these different issues? So we know that even just the opportunity to have time to talk through some of these issues is an obstacle for a lot of couples in dealing with anger and frustration. So one of the things that Guy and I lay out, just on a practical sense, we work together a lot. Guy and I are together a lot. So we have many opportunities to talk and communicate now. But when we were first married, our hours were very different. He worked long hours in the entertainment industry. I was a teacher. I had a lot of things on my plate as well, and then into motherhood. So we learned eventually that one of the key things we had to make time for and that we encourage couples to do is as you read through this book and you think, okay, there's 31 triggers. I have 30 of these. This is the problem. Where do I even begin? We encourage couples to take even just every other week or even once a month to start with. If you can do it weekly, that's awesome. But even just once a month, if you can come together, to agree to set aside a time where you just do a little bit of a tune up check on your marriage, a triggers check, so to speak. And so we encourage people, whether it's a coffee on Saturday morning for an hour or two, or after the kids go to bed every Sunday night, so that you have some uninterrupted time, whatever it is. Even better if it can actually be a date night where you also integrate something that's lighthearted and fun into the mix. Even better, there were many, many years in our marriage where that wasn't an option just because of financially, or we lived in a town where we didn't have babysitters or family help, but we tried to make it work for whatever our circumstances were. But we carved out that hour or two once a month, or like I said, every other week, or even weekly to set aside that moment where we say to each other okay, this is the time when we agree to be open to hearing what each other has to say, to be receptive and to be empathetic and compassionate toward one another. So that's the attitude we have going into this. And I get an opportunity to mention, preferably just one. One trigger, one issue that's really on my heart. And you can identify that by what's the kind of recurring thing that happens over and over and over again? Is it every time you get in the car, you have an argument? Is it every time you get the bills in the mail and somebody spent money they weren't supposed to spend or something was mishandled? Whatever that thing is that keeps recurring that you identify as one of your biggest issues, then say. I would say to Guy. Okay, my trigger that I'd really like to try to work on for the next month with you is our finances. What we're doing right now isn't working. And here's some of the issues. And I've noticed that even though we have a budget for spending money, you're going over that, and I never do that. Would you be willing to really take a look at this with me more clearly and carefully and agree to these terms for these reasons? And can we work on this? What's something we can do? So you're coming together to talk about it, to identify the problem, and then to collaborate together on some better responses so it doesn't become this trigger into this angry argument every single time. And then, likewise, Guy and Guy can say to me, okay, you know, Amber, and this is true for me, you know, it's just your body language. You know, you have this habit when we're talking where you do this thing, and it comes across as critical. The way that you look at me, the way that your tone of voice and can you work on that? You know, and I will. I have to be willing to say, you know what? This is my opportunity to listen and to take it to heart and to take it seriously, because we're a team, and we are for each other, and we want our marriage to improve. And so we're going to listen to each other. We're going to lovingly confront one another, and we're going to collaborate together as a team to move forward and just take one thing at a time.

Yeah. I always found that when Amber would talk to me about things like this in the moment or try to bring them up, I started to feel like a lion in a cage, you know, and the walls were closing in, and I'm like, I Don't want to talk about this in front of the kids or I don't appreciate, you know, you bring this up right now. And my reaction just immediately was defensive.

Right.

And when Amber kind of. We decided to institute this in our relationship, it literally allowed us like a safe zone to enter into so that we could sit down and talk together about something when we weren't in conflict and we weren't in that defensive mode. And it. It has allowed us to talk through situations that, in effect, get us prepared for the next time it comes up so that we don't react later. Yeah, it's like tools in our tool belt.

Nobody's receptive in the middle of conflict. And in my first triggers book, I talk about parenting outside of conflict. You know, I'm not ready to listen to a lecture when my emotions are heightened. I'm not very teachable in those moments. And so I can't really expect my kids to be either, and I can't expect my husband to be. So we. We agree to take a break when it starts getting a little too heated, and then we know we need to table that conversation till we have our trigger stock.

Amber has this wonderful quote that is, there's nothing anger can do that love can't do better.

Oh, yeah.

And it absolutely is what that's all about. So if you enter into the situation lovingly, you can overcome what normally would result in anger.

That's such a great and practical, practical tool. If every couple would do that. I just. The way that. That preserves respect in the relationship in those vulnerable moments when we feel, you know, like Guy said, like a lion in a cage, we feel a little bit attacked when. When our spouse is kind of. We feel corrected or disrespected. And that's not what it's about. It's about moving forward in a healthy way. And it kind of leads into the question that I had for the listeners and for myself as well, like, how do you respond once you've identified a trigger? And you guys kind of already answered that in part, so I'll kind of add to it. Our last episode, we were talking about how to not fall in. Into a parent child dynamic. And what I mean by that is when. When one spouse kind of takes on this sort of corrective behavior or posture where. Where they. They're talking to the other spouse, almost like you would correct a child. Like, this is out of bounds and, And. And I'm. And they take on that position of authority, and the other spouse takes on the position of. Of being kind of the, the, the child in that dynamic. So what's your advice on how to work through this with mutual respect as partners without in those moments of maybe kind of correction or pointing out things that might be out of bounds without coming across, as you know, is that parent child dynamic that we talked about in the last episode. With keeping the mutual respect front and.

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Well, I do think that those times where you have them set aside outside of conflict to come together mutually with respect and a sensitivity to each other's needs and concerns is critical. It's so, so key. But Guy and I talk about really this idea of serving one another in the book. Throughout the book, we talk about ways that you can serve each other. And I think that service, the root of that really is a sense of humility. And when you are humble, there's no need to overtake somebody else's feelings, their thoughts, their input. You really think of yourself as a desire to bless and honor your spouse. And so Romans 12:10 says, Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. And so again, if you're feeling like you are the child and this other person is the parent, it's important to come together and express that and say, look, this feels domineering, it feels authoritative, when really we should be a team and that we're equal in so many ways. Our value toward one another and being able to have that conversation and then pinpoint, you know, what are those instances where that's where that rises up, you know, is it in conversations just throughout the week, or is there a certain situation where you have those feelings come up and what can you do to both of you alleviate that? But this idea in Romans 12 about outdoing one another and showing honor, that's really, I think Foundational for Guy and I, because when Guy and I were really struggling early on, I would have been really hard pressed to show him honor. I would have been really hard pressed to verbalize the things about him that I appreciated and valued. And we became a lot like roommates or just kind of revolving around each other, kind of co parenting, so to speak. And I remember thinking to myself, well, at some point, you know, we'll just get to a point where our kids are grown and we can kind of move on with our lives. And then I felt sensed the Holy Spirit say to me, yeah, sure, you. You could just be roommates and just try to be at peace and try to not cause any more arguing, but that's not the life I came to give you. I came to give you life to the full, right? And I designed marriage to be a beautiful picture of my love for you. So. So for you to just kind of make peace and get through it is not okay, right? And I was really convicted by that. And so as I began to just pour into lord, what do you have for us? This verse about showing each other brotherly affection and outdoing each other and showing honor to one another, I began to realize that, you know, my spouse's sin did not justify my sin. It didn't matter a thing about whatever Guy did or didn't do in our relationship. It had to start with me. This is not about fixing the triggers so that I'm not triggered anymore or fixing my husband. This had to be about me being humble, serving him, and looking for ways I could outdo him and showing him honor. And the foundation of all of that is because Jesus came to live a life of service for me and to die on the cross for my sin. And so my life is not my own. I am dead to myself. And as an act of love to the Lord, I am called to be humble and to lovingly serve my husband. And so the minute I began to make a list, instead, mentally, I would circulate all the things my husband was doing wrong, all the ways he would trigger me. And when I started shifting that mindset to all right, today I'm just going to jot down in my journal two things about Guy that made me fall in love with him in the first place, two things that I appreciate about him, two ways I know he shows me love, even though I'm not looking at them as ways he's showing me love currently, I do know this is the way that he shows me that he loves me. And just jotting those things Down. And then eventually, the Lord just began to soften my heart toward him, and it became much more about Amber. What do you need to do to respond instead of react? And so I had to work on that attitude, mindset toward Guy. And at that point, then we no longer became these fighting people where I'm the parent, you know, telling him, the kid what to do, and vice versa.

Right.

My goal. Outdo him and showing him honor.

Yeah. And I, you know, had mentioned earlier about how I got caught up in the. In the early days, the early years of our marriage, just falling into parenting very quickly and not having that foundation of a relationship with Amber. I think for me, I forgot going into year two or three, I forgot that we were friends and what that meant for us. And I remember the zinger that Amber used at the end of an argument one day where we had kind of fixed things, at least temporarily. And I said, honey, you know, I just want you to know that I love you. And she was still very sad because of what had happened. And she said, I know you love me, but do you like me? And that just stuck with me because it was like. It was like that friendship that was missing in our relationship.

What a great question. Yeah.

It just caused me. I mean, look, it's like 11 years later, and it's still something that's stuck with me. I think it's in the book. But it's one of those things that I think about a lot in the middle of those arguments, like, I need to make sure that I'm likable, but that my wife does like me and that we have a friendship, that. That is the foundation of. Of our marriage. You know, our kids are watching, and the tools that we give them now as parents and as a married couple is what they're going to grow to remember and is going to be the foundation for their relationships in the future. So I have to remember, if they see Amber and I as best friends, laughing together, playing together, dealing with conflict in. In a. In a. In a. In a great way that is healing, then that's gonna set them up for success versus the opposite. I don't want them to learn that the way that we fix problems is to yell at each other and slam doors and walk out of the room and not heal. And so that becomes.

And we don't want them to think that I'm parenting him or he's parenting me. We are their parents, and we are an equal team where we communicate in healthy ways from a place of humility and love.

That's huge. That's so huge. And you know, you're right. I mean, our kids, we say that all the time. Like the greatest gift we could ever give our is them seeing two parents who love each other and refuse to give up on each other. And like you said, work through. Cause it's not like we're not gonna ever have conflict. I mean, we're two different people. We're in an imperfect world. We're gonna have conflict. But it's like working through it in a healthy way. It really, it does help our kids kind of see what a healthy marriage really looks like and what a loving marriage really looks like.

Yeah, that's so true. And you guys are given so many great tools to help couples get there. We're to the time in our episode and I love this time where we bring in a real question from one of our listeners that was submitted@nakedmarriagepodcast.com and so Guy and Amber, we're going to keep you on the line and read this question and we would love your feedback for this particular couple in light of the marriage triggers conversation of how we can maybe help them out. So here is this week's question. It says, hi, my husband and I have been going through what I'd call an extreme rough patch for quite some time now. We are a blended family and have three kids, two girls from his previous marriage, and we have one boy together. He has a lot of stress at work, so that doesn't help at home either. Our fights escalate into him getting extremely angry and yelling. And it happens in front of our kids often. I've begged him to go to counseling and he flat out refuses because he doesn't think that I will change. And he's been to counseling before with his previous marriage, so he thinks he knows what the counselor will say. I'm so lost. I pray constantly that God will fix our marriage, but I am losing hope at this point. I don't want his yelling to continue in front of our children. So it sounds like whatever triggers he has, whether they're coming from work or just kind of a, a lot of us men do have kind of anger related triggers where anger either is the result of a trigger or anger sometimes itself is the trigger in how we respond to stress. And it's creating this unhealthy dynamic in the home that's creating a, you know, a not peaceful environment for the kids and maybe not the right example for the kids of what a marriage should look like. So kind of in light of our conversation Today, what would you encourage this wife to do as a first step when he doesn't seem willing to go to counseling at this point? And what would you encourage her to do? We'll just leave it at that.

Yeah, Amber. One of the chapters, Amber talks about this, that we need to have a me first attitude, and that it's not what it seems. It's not that I should get what I want first, and I should always have that as my priority. It's about changing me first. I feel like I can't change Amber, but I know that what I can do is I can change my attitude and I can really work on those things myself without the expectation that Amber's going to change, knowing that if I work on myself first and I'm honoring God with who I am and how I respond and how I deal with situations, that eventually Amber is going to see that and be affected by that and come around herself. So I think that's a starting point for us. Is that something that's very, very important?

Yeah. Well, you know, and we're not saying at all that this is easy and that it's not painful. It's very painful to die to yourself, and it's very painful to be on the receiving end of somebody else's sin. Our sin never just affects ourselves. There's a ripple effect where our sin impacts others. And the good news is this world is not our home, that we have the hope of heaven to look forward to. And I can't wait for that day. But while we're here, we're going to be in some very painful circumstances at times. And my heart really goes out to that listener because I know the pain that some of the spouses that are listening to this message now are going through. And they say, look, we're in this situation where we're the only one who cares. My spouse go to counseling. They won't discuss these things with me. And Guy is right. I think foundationally, it starts with that me first attitude. In Matthew, it talks about, do to others as you would have them do to you. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and your neighbor as yourself. There are no disclaimers there. Unfortunately, there's no disclaimer that says, well, if they're nailing you to a cross, then you don't have to love and forgive them. And actually we love Jesus because he first loved us while we were still sinners. So we know we're asking hard things here, but we do believe that having that me first attitude Means, all right, I wish my husband would help around the house more. But you know what? I'm going to have a me first attitude. I'm going to be first to clean, to do the dishes. I'm going to be first to. When I'm exhausted at the end of the day and I just came home from a long day at work and my wife is. Is managing a colicky baby, I'm going to be the first one to delay my rest, to give her rest. Having that me first attitude. And I don't think we can ever underestimate the power of prayer. I know that sometimes it can take a long time and it feels like the story is over and there is no hope. And yet that's really never the case in God's economy. He has no specific timeline that says if you've been praying this long and doing the right thing this long, then there's no hope. We believe that by having that me first attitude, by putting on love and doing what is right yourself, that the blessings that will come your way really ripple into eternity. But we also believe that it's really hard to be loved unconditionally and to be loved well and for that not to have an impact on you. So we believe that when a spouse continues to do the right thing themselves, goes to counseling themselves, gets good counsel from godly pastors and counselors and mentors themselves, and then continues to do what is right on their end, that the Lord will direct your steps. And we do believe that we'll see a shift in that marriage A lot of the time. We'll see the Lord do what he does best. But as long as both of you are entering into these triggered reactions perpetually, that's when it's really going to, you know, there's going to be a lot of more conflict and problems that arise from that. So we just encourage people to not give up praying, to not give up having the me first attitude, and really to trust and have hopeful expectation that nothing is too hard for the Lord.

I love that that's so true. Because, you know, so many times we want to change our spouse, but we just don't have that power. We don't, you know, and thank God we don't. Because God, you know, he sees the full picture. And it's hard for us to come out of our own feelings and how we're feeling in that moment and what we want to do to change our spouse. But God knows exactly what needs to change. And so, yes, I reiterate what Amber and Guy have Both said about just, you know, hanging in there, keep getting prayer. And I love Amber, what you said about, you know, maybe he won't go to counseling with his wife right now, but maybe she can go to counseling. She can go to Christian counseling. And, you know, when we go to counseling and Dave and I talk about this all the time, it's such a. It's like another person in your corner who can not only be praying for you, but also give you new perspectives to think about. Give you verses that maybe you're gonna read in a whole new light that apply to your life, that you can really cling to in this hard season. And so I just wanna reiterate that for that person listening, who is, you know, the wife specifically, who wrote this. But also those who are listening, who are in this dynamic, to not lose hope, to know that God sees you in this really frustrating moment and there's always hope in the Lord, and to keep on saying those prayers, keep on reading those books, just like Marriage Triggers and go get the counsel and just, you know, being as practical as not retaliating. I think so many times when someone comes in the room and they're just yelling at us. I mean, we're human beings. We wanna yell right back. You know, we're angry. Cause it's jarring. But if we can be prayed up before, you know, the husband comes home and just say, lord, help me. Respond in a calm manner and do that. And maybe even have the kids, if he tends to do this right when he gets home, have the kids in another room so they don't have to kind of be taking that anger right away. If, you know that that's a habit he has. And then when you respond in a Conway and just say, hey, I can tell you've had a rough day, like, can I make you some coffee? Or, you know, what can I do to help you feel a little bit better? Because I can tell that you're angry from your day. It's really hard to stay angry at somebody who's asking how they can help us. I mean, it's just human nature. So I just wanna encourage the wife in that. And, y', all, I would love to keep on talking about this, but we're gonna have to let you guys go. But listeners get your hands on marriage triggers. It's such a great book. It's available wherever books are sold. And Amber and Guy, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you, Dave. Thanks, Ashley. It's been our pleasure. We're praying for every listener.

Absolutely. Thank you guys.

Thank you. And I just want to reiterate that Guy and Amber are the real deal. Follow them on social media. That's Guy and Amber, L I A Leah. And the subtitle of the book, which I love, it says, marriage Triggers Exchanging Spouse's Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses. And man, just imagine how your marriage could look different if we would do that. So thanks again, Guy and Amber, for all you do. Listeners, pick up that book and please subscribe and leave a review here on this podcast. Help others discover the free content that we're putting out here on the Naked Marriage Podcast. And we appreciate you listening. We appreciate you taking this time to invest in your marriage, and we will see you next time.

Bye, guys.