No Perfect Parents with Dave & Ann Wilson

Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, we have such an exciting bonus episode for you today with our dear friends, Dave and Ann Wilson.

And these guys are the real deal. We love Dave and Ann. They are. They're some of the OG Marriage marriage couple speakers. And they have got so much rich content. They. They're just such wonderful, authentic people. The author of two books, Vertical Marriage and no Perfect Parents. We're going to be talking about their new newest book, which is more about parenting, and it is just full of such rich insights and it's.

It's really funny in parts, like, I was laughing out loud. So, yeah, it's so much fun.

You guys are in for a treat. For today's conversation, David and Wilson can be heard all across the country on the family Life broadcast, radio broadcast and podcast. But today, they're stopping by the Naked Marriage podcast to share their wisdom with us. And we are so glad to have dive into today's conversation. Well, like I said in the intro, I am super excited about today's guests. Dave and Ann Wilson are just an extraordinary couple. They have been friends and mentors to so many around the world for many, many years. And we are among that large group of people who have been directly impacted by their life and ministry. And David, Ann Wilson, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast.

We are so glad to be with you guys. You're kind of our heroes. We look up to you.

Oh, goodness, Compliments.

I am. You might not know this, but I met Dave. I used to babysit for him years ago, and, you know, it was really just good getting to know him when he was growing up.

Oh, my goodness.

You know, we have been confused with you over the every once in a while because our names are pretty close. So they're like, yes, Aren't you Dave and Ashley?

Our initials are all the same.

You know, we tell them we said, no, we're the couple that wears clothes. They're the naked married couple.

Hey, let me tell you, if we're ever going to get mixed up with anybody, I would love. It's an honor to be mixed up with you guys, because we do. We look up to you guys so much. And I have already started reading no Perfect Parents. And let me tell you guys, it's gold. I mean, it's just. And I know this, you've written several books, but this one, in our Season of Life and in many of our listeners. Season of Life in Raising kids and also trying to have a strong marriage. And, you know, as parents, too, we always feel like. I love the title because we. I think as parents, we all know we're not perfect, you know, but we still try, strive to be the perfect parent. And I just love how honest and even funny, in part to me, and the way the book opens up, it just pulls you right in. And it is an amazing story. I don't want to give it away, but it's just really amazing.

No, she really loves.

When you went into labor and all.

That walking around the house, I heard her laughing. I heard her saying, oh, this is so good.

It was great.

So refreshing. And so this is not just like podcast talk, like, we're plugging a book.

It's very helpful.

They're the real deal. And your content is great. Like, your stories are great, your teachings. Every time I see you guys teach or read one of your just any content from you guys, I just think, man, that is so good. I instantly pull something practical out of it that I can apply to my life. And I'm also encouraged. Not only do I have that practical application, but it's like my soul just feels refreshed. I'm like, oh, man, that was good.

Good stuff, man. You guys are so kind. Can you just keep going? This is wonderful. It feels so good.

And we're just being honest, you guys. And I would love to hear from you all, just your heart behind this book. Like, why write it now? Because I'm sure the timing is not by accident, but just, you know, what. What inspired you to write this book?

Yeah, that's a good question. It's interesting. Going through Covid, going through the pandemic, it's been really hard for so many people, and I think it's just escalated a lot of things in parenting, in families, in marriage. And we've had this on our hearts and we've taught on this for years and years about parenting. But I think we were thinking, what's our other passion? We have this passion for marriage, but the other passion we have is family and raising kids. And the other thing we're seeing is people feel like they're failing as parents because of social media and so many platforms that are making people feel like everyone's better than me. I'm failing at this. And we thought, let's just be real, let's just be honest and share what we did that failed, what we did that worked a lot of times or sometimes. But also, how does Jesus come into the midst of our parenting? And Make a difference.

Yes. I love it.

Yeah. And you guys have lived that. I mean, you've come through faithfully parenting all those years, and now you're in this beautiful season of life where you have kids who still like you and.

Want to be around you and want to be.

Yeah. Want to hang out with you. And now that generational blessing is continuing and you're able to now be enjoying your grandkids. That's the goal. I mean, that is what every parent wants. You want to raise kids who end up loving Jesus and liking you still and taking those lessons that you spent all those blood, sweat, and tears to instill in them, that those have taken root. And you've got this multi generational blessing because of the faithfulness of how you did things. Not that it's ever perfect, because Jesus is the only perfect one, but it's real and it's healthy, and it's what so many want. And it seems like this out of reach, you know, thing that people think, I can't have that, or I don't know how to have that. So, you know, I know there's not just kind of one secret to all that. But for those who are in the trenches of raising kids, like, what encouragement, what insights, and you give a lot of this in your book. Would you give to that couple to just kind of keep their eye on the prize and realize that they can have it even if they didn't have it, if their parents and grandparents maybe. Maybe the generations that were before them didn't necessarily do it right, but they have the opportunity to create a new legacy. What encouragement you give.

I mean, the first thought came to my mind is, you know, you've almost made it sound like, you know, we're sort of at this perfect stage right now, which is an awesome stage. And our oldest is 35, and then 33 and 30 and six grandkids. And it's wonderful. And we are really good friends with them, aren't we? Yeah, I think they would. I think they would agree, and they wrote in the book as well so that it could be really honest. But there's also. There's also been really hard conversations, you know, with. With our kids, adult kids. I remember going to play golf with two of my sons, and I thought, we're just gonna go play golf. And then we sat down after lunch, and they both looked at each other, and then they look at me and they said, hey, there's something we need to share with you about some of the things you did as a dad that was Sort of hurtful. And I'm like, oh my goodness. You know, here we go.

Can we get three whiskey? Three whiskeys over here at this table?

He's like, exactly. I'm like, I got a Zoom meeting I gotta run to. I mean, honestly, you know, as soon as they opened their mouth and shared, I was 100% like, you're right, I missed it there and I'm sorry. And tell me more. And then at the end of the conversation, it was the good thing. And I, and I believe this is, it's not over. You know, it isn't like, okay, I blew it, it's over. No, it's like, I can do better and we can have a better relationship in those areas going forward as adult men now.

Yeah. And it's never too late. I think that's really important because as parents, we can feel like when our kids are out of the house, we feel like, well, they're gone and it's too late. It's never too late. My dad's 92 and we still have this amazing relationship. And the things that he says to me are still a blessing and impact me.

Wow.

Yeah. It's so true. I mean, I think about my own parents, you know. You know, and how like right now we're in this phase where it's really sweet. Both of our parents, you know, they've raised all their kids. We like, there's no siblings of ours that are at home anymore. And we've gotten into this routine with both of our parents where they will sit on speakerphone together and call us and talk to us. It's really sweet. And they're both commenting and like my dad, my mom says my dad will cut some cheese and like get some crackers. And it's like the thing they like, they're just catching up on life. And sometimes I'll like have the boys come talk to em and it's just so sweet. And I told Dave, I mean, I got like teary eyed telling him. I was like, you know, I never want to take this for granted because you do. You know, none of us are perfect parents. And, you know, I'm just so grateful to still have my parents and for them to still be interested in my life and to still have wisdom. I mean, like, I still call my mom like, you know, I talk to my mom almost daily and it's just, it's such a comfort and it's just awesome. And I really do, I think, like you said just to your point is that it never really ends and you can Always improve it. Because there are certain seasons of parenting and of growing up where there's friction, you know, there's friction. And as parents, I think when we're going through that with our kids, we really, really carry that weight, you know, and it's. It's just such a weight. And especially, like, for people listening who have maybe a child who is wayward right now, like, they're making decisions that the parents are like, I just. I don't. This may affect their whole life. You know, they're going to sleep with that weight of like, lord, please, please be with my son or daughter. I don't even know where they are right now. And I just. I just hope and pray that they're safe. And, you know, what would you say to those parents? Because I think that that's. We hear from a lot of people where that's the dynamic. And for. And this is kind of a twofold question. So not only are they carrying that weight, but sometimes the husband and wife carry the weight differently, and it really causes marital problems.

Yeah.

Because, you know, one spouse is like, you don't care as much. And the other's like, well, you're too. You know, you're letting this rule your life. You know? What would you say?

Well, I've got to share this one story. This is when they were in the house. I think even with teenagers, we parent out of fear sometimes of what could happen.

Oh, yeah.

Or that I'm messing them up. I remember we went to this big church thing when our oldest was 14, and all our friends were together ice skating. And then we were having this big potluck inside. And so it was this great day. There were probably 25 adults, so you can imagine how many kids. So we go into our friend's house. We're getting ready to pray. All this food's laid out on the tables. All these parents are there. And it gets quiet to get ready to pray. Dave's gonna pray.

I'm the pastor of this church.

All these people go to our church.

So here they all are.

And all of a sudden, out of the silence, you hear someone say, this food looks like crap. And it's our son. It's our son that says it.

Our teenage son, 14.

And I give him, like, the evil eye, you know? And so then we're getting ready to leave later. And again, it's quite quiet in the room for some reason. And I had asked him, hey, could you carry your brother out on your back? Cause he wore his ice skates and not his shoes. And Again, he says, ah, I have to do everything in this stupid family, you guys. I am, like, beside myself. And, you know, you're embarrassed because you look so bad to all these other people.

I think we had just done a series on parenting at church, you know.

Oh, gosh.

And now you're thinking, everyone's judging you, and who judges you the worst? You do. And so then we get out to the car, and he's kind of on this. My son CJ's on this weird balancing, trying to get his brother in the car, and he's off balance, and I see this big snow drift beside the car. And so I just kind of nudge him with my shoulder.

She says, nudge, but it's like.

And he falls into this snowbank. I get in the car and I lock all the doors. He's banging on the window, like, mom, let me in the car. Dave comes out, you know, the pastor, and he's like, what's happening?

Tell him what you told me. When I got in the car, I go.

I told him, I, like, I just want you to. And then I start crying because what do you feel? Total guilt? Like, what's wrong with me? And so I tell him, like, I will never speak about parenting in my life because I have no idea what I'm doing. And so then what happens? You go to bed that night, and you think you just kick yourself. Like, I'm the worst parent. They're gonna hate me. Who knows what they'll do? And, you know, even spiritually, as they get older, you can't control the way they're going spiritually, and that is so scary sometimes. So I'll let Dave answer the part when you feel like you have a child that's kind of on a wayward route.

I mean, if you still want me to answer.

Absolutely, yes. You guys are just real.

We're stuck in a snowbank right now. But, you know, the only thing I can think of. And as you said, Ashley, there's so many parents, and we've gone through that, where there's the wayward prodigal moments or maybe even months or years. I really think the only thing. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do. The biggest thing is pray. I mean, literally get on your knees. You can't change them. Only God can. Can bring them back and pray for other people to come in their life. One of the things I put in the book that I started 35 years ago, when I heard this on Focus on the Family, I literally heard somebody talk about Fasting one day a week for their kids. And I said, okay, I'm going to start that. When our first was born, I'm still doing it one every Friday for the last 35 years, just eating until sundown and all day just praying. And again, I'm not saying there's a guarantee, you know, you do this and you get this, but.

Right?

Boy, I tell you when, you know, when I did our three sons weddings as the dad, but also the pastor, you know, looking at these three young women that they were marrying, I'm just like, they have no idea. I've been praying for you before you were born that you would be a woman of God, that you would be pure, that you would have integrity. I mean, and I'm just looking there like, God is so good, you know, and again, I know their parents really struggle maybe right now. And I would just say, God is the God of the impossible. You can't do it. I can't do it. Maybe you did everything right. And they still walked away. Just ask God, seek God, and in his time, hopefully they can return.

I had some girlfriends that I fasted and prayed with one day a week that we would each, like, put our prayer requests in for that day. And there's something about having people doing it alongside, you know, and even praying with you with what your kids are going through. We had a situation. I have coming up with all these stories. You can.

I love it. I love it.

Yeah, we had a situation this past year where we just all happened to be at this football field. Our son trains guys playing football. And Dave was with him throwing. And when I got in my car, I saw that there was a wallet on the ground. Picked up the wallet. It had information in it. So I brought it home thinking. And it had a lot of money in it and credit cards.

I have no idea you're going to tell this story.

Well, it just made me think of this.

Yeah.

So I get home and I find this person. It's a college student online, and they have their number. And so I text him, hey, I found your wallet. And so he ends up. He goes, I'm going to be at your house in 10 minutes. I have been frantic looking for my wallet. And so you guys. This is so crazy. He comes to the door and he goes, are you.

Hey. Hey. By the way, I got to add this. It's a Saturday afternoon. I've just thrown routes to my son. He played for the Lions for a couple years. I was a college quarterback. So it's this great moment. I Come home. I'm watching college football. I hear Ann, she calls this kid, and I hear her say, yeah, just come to the house and pick it up. And I literally walk in the kitchen and go, you invited some stranger to our house?

What are you thinking? And not only that, I said, yes, yes. And I just. There's something happening. God is in this.

She makes a batch of cookies, and.

I put them in a bag for him. Like, God, I don't know what it is. I just know. I have this feeling that God's gonna do something. So he comes to the door and he goes, are you kidding me? Ann Wilson and Dave Wilson, this is your house that you found my wallet. And I'm like, oh, yeah, come in. Like, he tells us his name. He goes, is Dave here? I'm like, he is here. He's watching football. And then he says, can come in and talk to you guys. This kid is grown up at our church.

Yeah, it was a really cool story as I came out into the kitchen. And again, you know, Ann had already told me God's up to something. And I'm like, whatever.

Yeah.

Exactly. The kid walks in and he, you know, you can tell that he's sort of stunned. He gets really quiet. And I just said, hey, so what's going on? And he said, wow, I've walked away from God. He goes, I grew up in your church. You did my parents wedding. I heard. I was born in your church. I've been in your youth group. I was walking with God and went to a Christian high school. Now I'm in college, I'm about to graduate, and I've walked away from God. And I just said to God, like yesterday, I need a sign. I need a sign that you're real, that you see me, that you care. And he goes, you are. This is the sign.

Wow.

He goes, you guys, you don't understand. This is the biggest, biggest moment of my life. And he's crying. And so I think of all the parents that are so fearful for their kids, you know, their adult kids or maybe college age kids that have pulled away. God's continually fighting for them.

Yeah. When we were standing in our foyer just to say goodbye to him and we prayed for him, I got all teary because what this kid didn't know is I. It just. All the dots started connecting in my head is. And it's a long story, but Ann was supposed to go to this different parking lot. I said, no, go to this other one. And she. I mean, it's just the way it's.

Like, supposed to be there.

Yeah. God took a wallet, a lost wallet, and my wife and put them together to reach out to a prodigal. And it was a beautiful moment to go, and even for us to go. God, you are. You are amazing.

Yeah. Then I gave him the cookies and said, I just felt like God wanted you to have these because he sees you and he loves you.

And, of course, Anne was right again.

Oh, my goodness.

I mean, like, that is. That's just. That's God going after. You're exactly right. The prodigals, like, he's always searching for the lost sheep he's always caring about, even the one you know.

So you. You guys have just. You've. You've led such an authentic life in your leadership, in your home, and. And I think that's why you've had the impact that you've had the influence that you still continue to have, not only within your own family, but, like, with this young man, you know, a person that you had not till that moment met face to face, and yet you'd impacted his life through seeds you'd planted just by your leadership and authenticity. And it's wonderful. It's just wonderful how it's come together. But I want to rewind the clock a little bit from kind of like, some of what I've heard you share in your first book and just in some of the marriage talks that you've done where during the busiest season, some of those busiest seasons, early on, I know, Dave, you were kind of hard charging, doing all kinds of stuff, really important stuff, ministry stuff, serving as chaplain, you were just all over the place doing stuff. But there kind of came. It came to a head where, you know, Ann, you kind of challenged him. If I'm remembering some of these stories, right, of just being gone so much that it was really having an impact on the marriage and in the home. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about what you learned in that season and how you made those adjustments, and then maybe give a challenge to people who feel like they're in that season right now where they're so busy with doing good things. You know, it's not like they're out there just, you know, sinning every night. They're doing good things. But that good stuff has really become an enemy of the best stuff. And it's. And I think any of us can slip into that, and the way you guys share about that, I think is really profound. So take it away.

Well, I mean, I would just, you know, looking Back that, you know, we've been married 41 years in May 24th. And you know, you go back to our 10 year anniversary and I won't go into all the details, it's in the vertical marriage book, but it was simply the year we started our church. I was in our fifth or sixth year as the Detroit Lions chaplain, which meant we're losing a lot of football games. That's what that means. And, but you know, I'm really busy, you know, you know, starting a church is crazy. And. And then we're speaking around the country doing marriage stuff.

We had just started and we had family life. We had a three and a half year old and a one and a half year old. No, that three and a half and like almost two. So that stage of parenting and marriage, you guys know, is really hard.

Yes, extremely hard. And you know, the short story is I thought on a scale 1 to 10, our marriage was probably close to a 10, probably a 9.8. We go out on our 10 year anniversary and have a beautiful evening. We're about to launch this church in a local middle school. And on the way home from the date, I said, let's park in the, you know, the middle school parking lot and pray about what God's gonna do. But honestly, I just wanted to go. Parking.

Yeah, he's all about the parking. Park prayer was like two seconds and then he's all about the parking.

I probably use the prayer to get her to pull in there.

Right, right.

I call that speaking in tongues.

There you go.

There you go.

Anyway, I lean over to kiss her at the end of this wonderful date. Was romantic and great restaurant.

It was amazing.

And she doesn't want to kiss me. And I try again. She really turns her head. And so I just simply asked what every guy wants to know at that moment. Like, is something wrong? And she said no. And I said, well, I just tried to kiss you. And we had this great night. It feels like something's wrong. Is something wrong? And she, I mean, this moment changed our marriage. She said, I've lost my feelings for you.

I didn't want to bring it up. Then I said no, because I'm like, now's not the time. He just went to this incredible effort to give us a great night and it was great. And so when he kept pressing and I just thought, do I really want to bring this up? Because we had been fighting a lot about time, about schedule, about priority. Even when Dave was home, I felt like he wasn't present mentally or with us, you know, and so I just said, I've got nothing. I've got nothing left. And I thought, he's just going to be so angry. We usually. This just usually goes into an argument of how he's going to prove to me that he is home. That's how it usually went. And so he didn't do that. But he said, tell me more. Which I was stunned. And I said, okay. I said, I started out super angry. My anger turned to bitterness, and then my bitterness turned to numbness. And I even said, I would say, you think you were like a 10? I would say, maybe we're a 0.5. And I have no idea how to get us out of here. And I don't even know if I care enough to get us higher than that because I don't see any hope for us right now. And it was like the darkest place that we had ever been. And suddenly, as we're taught, I finished talking, and Dave says, I need to do something.

Yeah, it's interesting. Again, I had no idea that we were that bad. But as Ann was sharing in probably over five or 10 minutes, I heard the voice of God. It was the strangest thing ever. It wasn't an audible voice, but the Holy Spirit of God lives in the temple of the. Of the human soul, and he lives in my soul. And he literally said one word. Repent.

Yeah.

And I knew what repent meant when I heard it. It was simply, you're lukewarm. You. You're pre. You preach a good thing. You're running around doing all these things, and your walk with me is lukewarm. And you're never going to get this marriage thing. We call it this horizontal marriage thing, right? Unless the vertical is first. And so it was really a strong word, like, you think you're gonna solve this? You can't. You gotta get right with me. And that's where we start. So I, you know, Anna know this is going on. She's sharing her heart. And then I just. When she stopped, I said, you know, we need to talk about everything you shared, but I need to do something for first. You don't need to do this. But I do. And I just felt like I needed to be on my knees when I did it. I don't always pray on my knees, but somehow I don't know to this day how I got on my knees in the front seat of a Honda Accord, but I did. And I got on my knees and I prayed out loud and said, jesus, I repent. I've been running around. I'VE been preaching a good game. I am not living it. My walk with you is lukewarm, if not cold. And I need to get right. I need to put you in first place. And I wasn't in, like, moral sin or anything. It was just, you know. And I know, you know, in Revelation, he says to the church, you know, you've lost your first love. What's he telling to do? Repent and do the things you did at first. And I, you know, that's exactly what I need to do. And so I just thought, I got to get right with God, get this right. And then we got to talk. And so I say amen. And I turn to talk to Ann, and I look over. She's on her knees, which was so.

Interesting, because I thought the problem with our marriage is day. You know, like, I felt like I am doing things right. I am just busting my butt over the kids. And I'm working part time, too. So I just felt like it's all his fault. But it's so funny. Like scripture says, a gentle answer turns away wrath.

Yes.

But when he starts praying, I am so convicted because I feel like God says to my spirit, Ann Wilson, you have been trying to find your life through your husband. You've been trying to find joy, happiness, purpose through your marriage and through Dave. And I felt like he said, I never equipped Dave, and I never meant Dave to fulfill all of your needs. That's my job. And so there was. That's why I was on my knees. I was repenting, too. Like, lord, I've taken you off the throne of my life. I've put my eyes. My marriage has become an idol, which sounds weird, but if God's not first, I felt like he's our hope. Jesus is our hope. And so it's like we put God where he belongs to, at the center of our marriage, at the center of our relationship. And that really, that was the beginning. It took a lot of work and time for those feelings to come back, for us to kind of heal. But that was the biggest thing, the big. The greatest step that we've ever taken and learned in our marriage, that we go vertical, that we keep our eyes on Jesus. He's always the first place in our lives and in our marriage.

You know that story. I know it has already impacted thousands of people who've read your vertical marriage book or even seen you guys talking about this on national television. But I just know for our listeners in particular, there are so many people who are at that crossroads, who are at that point of numbness like you talked about, and where there's not the feelings. And maybe their spouses, like Dave was, where, you know, he was in such a busy part of his life, he didn't even realize. You know, I think sometimes spouses aren't on the same page with that and they have different kinds of evaluations when it comes to their marriage. But I think going to your knees and just. And being at that point of repentance and putting your pride away, you know, because pride just wants to. Oh, it's like we wrestle with that so much. God can do the miraculous. And you guys are living proof of that. And you're such a bright light to so many people when it comes to their marriages, when it comes to their parenting and also their faith. And I just, I am, you know, I'm one of the thousands and thousands of people that you've influenced and Dave is as well. And we just thank you guys for your honesty and for your candor. And, you know, both of your books, Vertical Marriage and no Perfect Parents, I mean, they're, they're life changing books and I can't wait for our readers to get their hands on it.

Yes. So get their book. You can, you can follow them on the Family Life broadcast, which is just some of the best content out there across the airwaves. And we're excited to be coming on the Family Life broadcast.

Yes.

Later. Later this summer in Orlando. You guys are moving the headquarters down to sunny Florida. That's going to be fun.

Yes.

Can't wait to have you.

We're excited and truly honored and just honored to know you guys. So before we wrap up, tell us whatever parting words you want to tell us about where folks can find you or anything that we left out. The floor is yours. Yes.

I don't think we left anything out. I mean, I think just as you guys, when you guys communicate on stage or on a podcast or in your writings, we're in sync because we're both saying the same thing. Go to Jesus. He's your rock. You know, there's all kinds of practical things that we need to do and learn and skills. But at the end of the day, you know, if you do all that stuff and you don't have Jesus, you have nothing. There's no power. I mean, the power to do what we're talking about only comes from putting Jesus first. We call go vertical. But we, and I would just say thank you for what you guys do. Dave and Ashley, we love you. We love your ministry. It's so Cool to watch God work through you. And we point people to your stuff all the time and if they want to find us, it's just simple. Dave AnnWilson.com or Dave Ann Wilson, you name, you name it. You guys are so good at the social media thing. We're learning that world. But you are way ahead of us.

On that and you can listen to us on podcast or radio on family life today.

Family life today.

Awesome, man. Well, I love it.

I love it too. And thank you guys so much. We know you're busy people. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us today and I know it's just, it's having a huge impact on those listening. So thank you guys so much. We can't wait to be with you in person soon. I told Dave's already been with you guys in person before and I am so excited to get to actually meet you in person.

Oh, we're going to have a ball. And for those listening and watching right now on the Naked Marriage podcast, thank you for tuning in as always. And go and check out the Wilsons. I'm serious. Like, you will be blessed. So just do a deep dive Googling them. By the end of it, you're going to be so excited. You're going to want to get a David Ann Wilson tattoo somewhere on your body. They're just life changing people and we are honored to call them friends and we're so honored that you've been watching and listening. So thank you guys for listening. Subscribing, sharing this, do us a favor. This message that you just heard, I know it impacted you and it will impact others. And you can partner with us by sharing this, by sharing this link on your social media or by texting it to somebody. There's somebody in your life in particular probably on your mind right now that you're thinking they would really be encouraged by this. So text it to them and just say, hey, this really encouraged me. Give this a listen. I think this would encourage you too. And by doing that simple thing, you're partnering with us and spreading this message of hope and we sure appreciate it. We'll see you next time.

Bye, guys.