Operation Thriving Marriage

Black Friday Savings are here at the Home Depot, which means it's time to add new cordless power to your collection. Right now, when you buy a select battery kit from one of our top brands like Ryobi or Milwaukee, you'll get a select tool from that same brand for free. Click into one of our best deals of the season and stock up on tools for all your upcoming projects. Get Black Friday Savings happening now at the Home Depot. Limit one per transaction exclusion supply full eligible tool list in store and online.

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, we are so excited about this episode. Today you're going to hear from an amazing couple who has experience in the military and they have a special message just for you. But before we dive in, I want to share another review and this one is from Mama May 20th and it's entitled renewed marriage and she gave us five stars. So thank you, thank you. She says. We first saw Dave and Ashley in a simulcast at our Church of the Exo Marriage Conference 2020. Since then, my husband and I started listening to the podcast and after a lot in all caps of big life changes, fighting, et cetera, this podcast has literally transformed our marriage. We started taking each other's wants and needs with grace and love, listening to each other full heartedly and putting in that extra effort daily. We love you guys. Thank you for all of your advice and guidance. It's been life changing. Love the conversation about quote A Communer Marriage. We have a version of this. I Work Graves He Works days. Loved their gems of wisdom. Thank you guys so much. And we do love the Communer Marriage particular episode. That podcast.

Oh yeah, great episode.

So helpful if you have a long distance kind of long distance seasons in your relationship. It's really helpful.

Yeah, very helpful. And thank you again for that. That feedback. Like you have no idea how encouraging it is to us and to the whole team here at ExoMarriage when you write in and say this content has helped renew our marriage, it's helped renew our faith, it's helped strengthen our family, it's given us hope to keep going, it's helped us achieve happiness and health that we didn't think was possible. And guys, that just means the world to us. And so if this is making an impact in your life, leave a review and let us know. But also share when you hit share on this podcast, when you text it to a friend, when you post it on social Media. When you just talk to someone and say, hey, check out this podcast, it's really encouraging and it's helpful you partner with us in this important work of spreading hope to couples all around the world. And today's episode, man, it's going to be a great one. Today we are interviewing Brian and Jen Harvey, and they have got such a. Such a wonderful and unique background. Brian spent years as a pastor. He's now in the military. He's a master sergeant in the Michigan Air National Guard. Jen is an attorney. So they're super brilliant people, first of all, you know, serving our nation. He just got back from a deployment. But they are committed together to helping strengthen married couples. They've got a new book called Operation Thriving Marriage. And if you're watching on YouTube instead of just listening, you're seeing me hold up this cool book. We're going to be talking about this book today and the important message in it, and you're going to get so much from the conversation. These are two incredibly genuine people with a lot of depth and understanding. It's going to encourage you today. So let's dive into the conversation. Well, like we said in the intro, we are so excited to have Brian and Jen here today, and it's going to be a great conversation. So, guys, welcome. Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast.

Thank you so much for having us.

Yeah, thank you guys for coming down. And I've had a chance to check out your book, Operation Thriving Marriage. So good. I mean, you guys have such rich insights from your unique backgrounds in military and law, your marriage together, and just there's some great, great stuff in there. So what inspired you guys to first write the book?

And really, we wanted to write the book. We had been involved in a lot of marriage ministries and singles ministries about 20 years, and it was something where just the backgrounds that we have, me being an attorney and just being able to have people come to me and talk to me, just as far as maybe they're contemplating a divorce, maybe their spouse filed for divorce against them. You just see so many patterns of things that people could avoid to be able to get themselves out of that. And then, you know, Brian, your background certainly staff, being a pastor for so many years and military, right?

Yeah. So I was. Had a lot of different staff positions at different churches, from youth pastor to doing small groups and things like that. So I had a lot of opportunities where people would come and talk to me about their marriages and what was going on. But more so, even in the military, I had the privilege of being a First sergeant in the Air Force for six years. And for our military viewers and listeners, first, starting in the Air Force is a little different from the other branches because they pull us out of our career field first for a period of time to get development training, leadership training, to put us back into our career field. So it's a little different than the other branches. So I was out of my career field doing something completely different. My entire job was taking care of airmen. It didn't matter if the planes flew, it didn't matter any of that. It was just taking care of airmen. And the interesting part about that is while they knew about my faith, I wasn't the chaplain. I was just one of the guys in uniform. I was the first sergeant. And they would open up to me in a different way because I'm just one of the guys, you know, a little bit farther along, but it's not my chaplain. Friends say sometimes the cross walks in before them in a bad way because now all the airmen are, oh, we gotta act. Right? The chaplain's here.

Right.

And they would be willing to open up and just say, hey, this is what's going on right now. And hey, first I, how can I deal with this? What should I be doing? And so I got a lot of insights into other people's marriage where they're willing to open up and let us see our marriages both from the legal perspective, from the military spectrum. Like, we've seen a lot of the similar things. It didn't even really matter so much. Faith based. A lot of the same things were causing the same problems and most of it was happening early in the marriage and not addressed and then later on. And so we're like, well, we have this opportunity that God's given us to see these marriages. Let's share what we've learned and hopefully we can help some people out.

That's great.

My goodness. Like, when it comes to those issues, and I know you go into more detail in the book, but what were some that you that, that you heard from the airmen? Like, what were those issues that they were dealing with the most?

So from the faith based, the ones that do share our Christian faith, it's just understanding what marriage even is, right?

Yeah.

Because you learn about it in youth group. Right. The youth pastor says, hey, don't have sex before marriage. And then it stops. Then you do your premarital counseling. But the only time theology, what marriage is, is taught is at the wedding ceremony. How many people are paying attention to the pastor at the wedding ceremony? I've had A privilege to be background for many weddings because I'm up reading the words and stuff. But they're not paying attention to the pastor. They're paying attention to the bridegroom, which they should. It's a beautiful celebration of what they're doing. So they don't really learn what marriage is from a theological. What God is doing with that union happen. So that's a big thing. The other thing that Jen and I talk about, we call it team marriage. This idea that you're on a team and presuming the best in the other, your spouse is not trying to sabotage you. But so many times, especially in the military side, I'd be talking to these young airmen who are away from home, away from their spouse, and he or she is doing this. That. What is the matter with them? Why don't. It's like, well, okay, back up. Let's start with the presupposition that they don't realize this bothers you. Have you told them? Well, no, they should just know. Okay, so let's start with that presupposition that they are on your side. And so many people just. Well, that's just presume. We should just know that. And they don't presume the best. They don't presume that we're on a team. And so that's a big one. And then the other thing, what we like to call unexpectation, and it's those unmet expectations, those unvoiced expectations and those unshared expectations that since they're every fight that a couple has, I would argue comes from an unexpectation. It's an expectation that wasn't met. Yes, I expected something to be this way, and it didn't happen. And so then the fight comes out. And so that's something else where it's like, again with the airman's, like, I expected this, you know, I. When we got back from this training, when we got back from this deployment, I. Did she know that? Well, okay, no, she didn't. He didn't know that. We need to talk about that. So those are the things that we found. That's really the understanding what marriage is. Understanding. It's a team. Presume the best.

Yeah.

And then understanding that expectations need to be addressed and dealt with.

That's so good. I've heard someone say expectations unsaid or expectations unmet. And I think like, that is so true. But yet so many of us go into marriage and we don't voice what we need. We expect them to Be a mind reader. And then we also come in with different backgrounds, and we just assume, well, this is the way I did it. And so this is the way it's got to be done. Like, one example I love from your book is something as simple as whether or not to lock the front door. Right. You know, so you guys, part of the book you talked about where, you know, Jen grew up, you know, you guys always locked the front door. It was just a safety issue. And, and, and where Brian's family, it was like, like, no, we just, we don't lock the front door. I mean, we're in a safe place. Why would we do that? And so both of you come in to the marriage just assuming, well, that's the way that it, that it is. You never locked the front door. You always like the front door. And there are a million of those kind of things in marriage. And so how do you guys, even just in your own marriage kind of navigate those little differences and bigger differences of, well, this, this is how I was raised, or this is my personal preference, and working through those expectations and those differences of opinion and finding. Finding unity in as many things as possible, which is, you know, an ongoing, a lifelong journey in marriage. So what does that look like for you guys?

And I'd say just as to that, it's about that communication and really making a point to listen to where your spouse is coming from and then certainly making a point to communicate very clearly what's going on. Because I know that we've had some conversations in the past about a lot of different issues where it's just, I'm really upset about this, and I might even be trying to figure out why I'm upset about this. But, you know, help me track through this so that we can figure out exactly what this is, what it is, why is this bothering me and really what can I do to address this and how do we address this kind of a thing together? And that happens, I think, just in so many families where if people are carrying over things from their family of origin, where they're coming out of, it's like, well, it's just done this way. We've heard stories about dad expresses love because on Saturdays, dad details mom's car, but then a daughter coming out of that, and if her husband isn't doing that, has no clue about that kind of a thing, she's not going to feel as loved. And the husband probably has no idea that that's how that love was expressed in their household. So if he's just trying to relax and rest with her and say, babe, you know, we're spending time together, and that's how we're expressing love to each other. She has to have that kind conversation, and maybe that's something that they make some adjustments with. I wouldn't mind if you were detailing my car every Saturday, Brian, but I'm not asking that of you. Not asking that. But it's good to talk those kinds of things through.

And I think the big part of that. Want to highlight what Jen was saying. It starts with introspection. Why am I mad?

Yeah, that's a great question.

Because you're presuming something, and a lot of people, they just emote. They just. Their emotions come out and it overflows. It's like, okay, what is the issue here? And then also in the same thing, when you see your spouse is upset, take a moment. Is there something I did? What did I do? Because we'll have conversations and I'll come back and say, okay, sweetheart, I said this, or I thought this, and I realize now how that affected you. And so if we want to maintain that thriving marriage, we want to maintain that relationship. You've got to be. I mean, it's important to be able to recognize in yourself, this is why I matter. These are things too many times, going back to the we're on the same page or we're on the same team. It's okay. Why are. Why are they making me mad? Why are they doing this? It's like, well, what is it in me? And I really think that there's a huge part of just taking that moment, taking a breath and saying, okay, what's going on?

Yeah, it's smart to address, too. Marriage is not a competition. It's that team effort that you're working on things together. It's not about me versus you. It never can be. It's. It's us working together.

You know, we always say on this podcast, you're either going to win together or lose together. And. And really how you win together is just talking through it, is trying to hear each other out. Even if you don't have the same exact opinion, you can still win together by working through that. I mean, there's certain things where, like, especially when it comes to, like, I. I am just very anal about organization in my house and stuff. And Dave, I mean, he's not a slob or anything, but it's just not as important to him. I know he's never going to feel exactly the same way, but that's it. But he Respects my feelings. And he tries to do his best to. To be tidier than he would like to be. And so it's like, you know, we're not going to see exactly the same, but that's okay. But early in our marriage, I had all this unspoken expectation. I mean, exactly what you guys are talking about with your unexpectations. And I would. I gave him such a hard time, and I. And I also did this whole you need to read my mind thing. Like, that was my. Just a huge mistake as a newlywed. And we talk about this a lot because I really thought, well, if he really loves me, he's going to figure it out. You know, he's going to re. He's going to know what I need, you know, which is just madness. And eventually I just. I realized, like, no, I need to actually say what I need. I mean, it. It just takes so much guesswork out of it. And, you know, I was doing all these mind games with him, and it just didn't get us anywhere. But once I was just. He's like, I really just want to know what it is you need.

I was clueless. I was. Yeah, it's like, listen, you've got to just tell me. Pretend I'm five. Like, just explain it to me as simply as you can, because if it's clear, then. Then I'm like, oh, I had no idea you wanted. You wanted it that way or you liked things this way.

Yeah.

So now it makes sense, like Ed. But so much of it comes down to communication.

Yes.

And so many of the issues like you guys have talked about here and in your book, you know, if you just communicate, say what you need, say what you're feeling, get to the root of why you're feeling that way, work through it together without blaming each other. Man, it can make. It can make such a difference, because the goal is. It's not just survival, but, like, you guys talk about, to have a thriving marriage. And so what do you think are some things, you know, for people who are listening, that they want that in their own marriage? Or maybe they're part of a church and they're like, what can our church do to really help. Help couples to really have that kind of a. Of a thriving marriage? Because I do think that we. We tend to, as a culture, settle for something far less than that. You know, we're just like, if we can just. Just be neutral with each other and just survive and get on autopilot and avoid divorce, then that's enough. But that's not enough. I mean, obviously you should avoid divorce and all of that, but God wants your marriage to thrive. He wants your marriage to be where your best friends, where you're communicating about everything, where you have intimacy on all levels, and every couple can have that. It's not just for some lucky few who hit some kind of lottery with being completely compatible. That's not what happens. Any couple that are committed to God and to each other and to these principles and do the work, they can have a thriving marriage. In yourall's experience, like, how can we get there? How can churches help people get there? What do we need to do?

Well, really, as an attorney, I'm going to say that when you're dealing with marriage, it's not a lawsuit, so you're not going to go for a settlement for that.

Right.

You don't want to just settle where you are. And that said, you certainly don't want to be beating each other up because you're not perfect. You know, we're all on the journey. We're all works in progress. We all have the mind of Christ, but we don't share each other's brains. So we need to be doing that kind of communication there, really. I do like to speak to pastors and clergy families in the respect that you need to walk the walk, pastors, and have that thriving marriage yourself. And I think the unfortunate thing is just through the years, Brian and I have seen so many fellow clergy marriages that end up falling apart and ending in divorce. And, you know, Brian, you. You had a statistic, I think, in regards to pastors conferences as well, right?

Yeah. I don't remember the exact number, but when pastors conferences come into town, the number of pay per views that get bought at hotels goes up.

Yep.

As these guys are away from their spouses and they start watching porn.

Yeah.

And because whatever those reasons, stress relief, I mean, they're just not having that. But I think also with pastors, we need to. And what I love about what we're doing here now and what you guys do with this podcast, we need to share a vision and a picture of what marriage is. Because, like we were talking about earlier, you hear about in youth group, okay, don't have sex before marriage and the wedding. But pastors. And so I asked, pastors, when's the last time you taught a sermon on the theology of marriage? What did God do when those vows happen? What happened in the couple? Because the picture that we get most of the time here is in television, in film, and so we're looking at, okay, that's what marriage is. Or on these ridiculous 90 Day Fiance. And. And it focuses so much on the wedding ceremony and this has to be this and that and everything and the wedding. At the end of the day, what I always tell couples is whatever happens at the end of the day, you're going to be married.

Right.

Okay. So if all of this falls apart, that's okay. It's okay. We want this to be a great experience for you. We want you to have a. But the marriage is more important. And we're getting our pictures of marriage from what marriages look like on television, if people even bother getting married, you know, movies. And it's not the picture of what God says marriage is. And also culture has, has convinced us, I mean, the world, the flesh and the devil, they've convinced us that marriage is about personal happiness. And so if I'm not happy in this marriage anymore, this marriage isn't making me happy, happy. Well, then like my, my car doesn't make me happy. I sell and I get a new one. So with the spouse doesn't make me happy, I'll divorce them and get a new one. Marriage isn't ultimately about making us happy. It's about making us holy. It's about making us more like Christ and learning from that. And that's the theology. That's the piece that churches and those older saints in the church really can help. People say, hey, it's not. Yeah, I get it right now. It is never fun having to rock, paper, scissors who gets to clean the dirty diaper this time.

Right.

That's. Happiness isn't the goal. But I promise you, God loves you more than you can possibly know. And if you pursue holiness, God will give you joy.

Yeah, yeah, he really will.

But if you're pursuing happiness, you're going to miss it. And in marriage, if you're pursuing holiness, understand that that's how marriage is going to thrive. And in the church in small groups, we need to focus on helping people see that if you really want joy, if you really want everything that Christ promises us, then we need to pursue him. Not, oh, I want to be happy in this relationship.

And some of that too, I think, is the repeated enforcement. Because really the churches do a great job saying, we want to get this premarital counseling in place and you want to do that. But I think the idea of if they start off right, they're going to be right forever. That's just not true. We humans forget, you know, we make mistakes. So just the church continuing to reinforce that I had a breakfast with my friend Kathy last week and it's like, well, how come we don't have these check ins, like every year or every five years or perhaps every 10 years to just make sure that our marriages are on the right track. And it's just so important to keep doing that. I think the couples certainly have the accountability to do that again. Exomarriage does so much great work with the publications, the podcasts, the conferences, and I just really urge our listeners to be connecting into that and really urge the pastors to be pursuing perhaps in the event that clergy families feel that they have no one to turn to. And I think we see that over and over again. They feel like they might not have a close friend. There's a lot of loneliness, certainly in the profession. There are resources that they can turn to, certainly through xo, to be able to talk to someone who understands more and that you can confide in. So get your marriage right. You don't want to be the whitewashed tomb where, you know, you're looking pretty out there, but you've really got all of these problems at home. We don't want to hear about any more stories of the affairs and the divorces in clergy. Let's repair those marriages and so that those families are then able to invest in their congregations from that right perspective.

Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this. That's why Columbia engineers everything we make for anything nature can throw at you. Columbia engineered for whatever.

So good, so good, so good.

New markdowns are on at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save even more. Up to 70% on dresses, tops, boots and handbags to give and get because.

I always find something amazing.

Just so many good brands.

I get an extra 5% off with my Nordstrom credit card.

Total queen treatment.

Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best. Best deals. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack.

You know, I love that so much and it really is. We never actually addressed this on the podcast. I'm so glad you guys brought this up, but I think, you know, and Dave has actually said this before to me, he thinks, you know, a big reason why we don't have a lot of sermons on marriage on Sundays is because a lot of pastors feel inadequate to talk about it because they don't feel like their marriage is in a good place. And again, they do feel like, where do I go? Like, who do I talk to? And I mean, we've heard, you know, we get a Lot of emails, and many are from. From clergymen and women, and they're just like, you know, we know it's not where it needs to be, but we live in a small town and we can't. There's one counselor, one Christian counselor that kind of, you know, that we could maybe go to, but everybody kind of still talks. And, you know, we don't want him to get the wrong idea, and we don't. We want to handle it kind of in a way that can help people eventually. Once we get through this, we don't know where to go.

So.

I love that you guys said that. And just to add to what Jen has said, you know, you can go to xomarriage.com help and talk to our mediators. They are amazing. But I also want to mention this.

She.

She talked about having a check in, and there's a resource that we've talked about here on the podcast that I want to mention again, and that's the Vision Retreat book by Jimmy and Karen Evans. And it's a wonderful way to. Once a year, which is the goal, to get away with your spouse. It doesn't have to be expensive. You could literally go to a hotel within your town, which can be a dream if you have kids and a busy work life.

Oh, yeah, that's.

Going to a hotel in your town is, like, amazing. Find one that has a hot tub, nice pool area, and just spend, you know, a day or two talking to your spouse, having time together, but really creating a vision for your marriage and asking God, God, what is that vision that you have for this next five years, for this next 10 years? And, you know, and you can talk about, you know, forever, but it's good to have chunks like, what, what are our goals right now? And you can go to visionretreat.com for more information about that. It is an amazing resource. Jimmy and Karen, as well as Brent and Stephanie. Brent and Stephanie are the ones who kind of lead operation here at Marriage today. They have done this year after year, and they've said, I know Stephanie, she's a good friend of mine. She said, it's been just. It's been life altering. It's something that every year, even though they feel like they have a great marriage, it takes it to that next level. And so, you know, we're not just saying this as people who don't practice this, this kind of thing, we know it works. And so Definitely go to VisionRetreat.com today and get your book to kind of lead you through that.

So Good. Well, guys, we're gonna transition into my favorite time of the podcast, which is Q and A. And Brian and Jen are gonna stick around for this and help us answer this question using some of the principles we've been talking about here. So thank you. For those who send in questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com Today's question says, my husband is in active duty military but has a desk job. So instead of deploying overseas, he gets deployed to different states every four to five years. We're a blended family and I stay put with the kids while he is away. During the time we're apart from one another, how do we stay connected emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically? How do you have a healthy long distance marriage and family? And I know Brian just had a deployment this last year and so you guys are fresh off of having to work through these same questions. So this is a really timely question that you guys are very uniquely qualified to answer both as ones who minister to other couples and ones who've lived through this yourselves. So I'd love to hear your answers to this wife.

Yeah, well, I'd say that certainly the trope in US Military families is when the military spouse deploys or goes away for training, everything breaks. And that is so true. My 10 year old ended up kicking off a shoe broke a storm. The ice maker in the refrigerator ended up breaking. And I think the one that really took the cake was there was 15ft of pipe underneath the basement that was leading from the kitchen sink and the dishwasher, it had to be broken up and replaced. I learned how to take apart the inside of two different toilet tanks. So yes, if you need a plumber, call this lawyer.

So that's you can do it all.

Jen, like that's impressive.

But see I think that that's the good thing if you're dealing with a spouse who's in the milit or who just travels a lot because it's like, hey, I can do this. You know, Christ is with me all the time. Christ is with my spouse all the time. And I might have to do some things a little bit differently, but I'm going to be empowered and I'm going to feel good that I accomplish this. But I'd also say that the spouse that deploys in this particular case in a stateside, there's probably a lot more mechanisms for communication because when Brian had deployed we were very fortunate that we were able to have access to WhatsApp so we could do phone calls. I think Brian was calling our 15 year old really early in the morning so that they could talk and made sure that we were certainly looping in our 10 year old and we were having some time to talk as well. So I think that that's a unique thing to be able to do. And then other other things I think is really communicating what these expectations are as well. Because when are we expecting to be able to talk? What's really practical and what are some things that in the military they call them limiting factors. What is stopping us from being able to connect the way we want to? But in light of that, how do we connect? So what are some things that you might have to add to that?

So first of all, I want to say to all the military spouses, you guys are superheroes. We, those of us who serve in the military and the missions that are accomplished don't happen without you. And I know that you hear that from the commanders and the first sergeants and the senior leaders all the time. It is so true. And having been a deployed first sergeant, talking to those men and women who were doing the mission, knowing what was being taken care of at home and their spouses, it is huge. And so thank you for serving the way you do, because it doesn't happen without that. A big thing that is important is understanding what are those limb facts, those limiting factors, and in advance plan to mitigate them. So where I was, the time zone was one of the limiting factors. So how do we do that? Well, I got up at 4:30 in the morning so that I could call Jen before she went to bed and then we could say good night. And like Jen said, my lunchtime was the time my daughter was getting up for school. So she had gotten up and got dressed and was sitting in her room watching YouTube or something, eating a croissant or whatever. And I'd call on what's happened, we'd talk. So find out what are those limiting factors. But most important, what do you expect in communication and what do you expect and understand, communicate what I need. There were times when things were going crazy for Janet. I'm trying to talk. And you have to understand your deployed spouse, your spouse that's away for work, whatever, they can only be emotional support. That's the only thing they can do. And that is difficult. On both it was, oh my gosh, I can't. When the plumber's not doing what we want them to, when things aren't going the way we want them, we've got to bring in people in this. I can't pick up the phone and say, okay, get over here. I can't do those things that I would normally do. I can't take that. So Jen's doing all that. And all I can do is provide support. Remember, that's a limiting factor. And explain how are we going to handle this. There were times when Jen was so stressed that she just had to say, you know what? I can't talk right now. Yeah, this is Brian, I love you. You're not helping right now.

Like, I need a moment. That's right.

So communicate what you need. Being very open about it and what the expectations are. That that's huge. And I'm just thinking, because I've got. For the military members out there, you need to be aware of this as well. Okay, if I can. I know that wasn't the specific question, but I think there's two sides of this that are really important because the spouse, please communicate to your military member, this is what I need. This is what's going on. And know that your needs are important. It's not just, oh, you're holding down the fort while they go do important work. Everything you're doing is important. And communicate that. That a police house. Remember what's going on. Everything your spouse is doing is so important because you can't do what you do. And you don't want to come home to an empty house. You want to come home to that thriving marriage that you've been working so hard to maintain. So you need to be able to communicate that and understand where they're coming from. One of my problems was, like, stereotypically, guys, try to get into Mr. Fix it, right? Oh, here's a problem, Jen. Here's how you need to fix your problem.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Not helpful.

It's a complete waste of our. I'm sitting here. Oh, you need to do this. It's like, Brian, shut up and listen. Stop that. So for those that deploy, remember that you need to be thinking about that as well. And don't just look at, look, I'm busy. I'm working. I'm working hard. I'm out in the mud in all this stuff, doing things that are really important. But remember, back home, they are too. And you need to look at that and be prepared for communicating to your spouse what they need from you, because they need from you just as much as you need from them. And be prepared to work on your marriage while you're away and use the resources that you have while you're over there. Talk to your chaplain. Talk to all those resources and the spouse Back home. Remember, every base, every unit has resources for you. Do not be ashamed of using them. That's what they're there for. And there's something in the military. Most Department of Defense has these military family life counselors. Yes, they're free to all military members. And so. So call your military family life counselor. If the chaplain's not available or the chaplain's not working for you, they may not have the right skills or the right understanding, but the family life counselor can use those resources. And don't think the spouse that's home, don't think you have to do this on your own. You've got an entire community, you've got an entire support system. Lean into that, because that's vital. Christ sent out a church. He sent them out two by two. He never intended for us to figure this out on our own. And you're not going to be able to pull this off on your own. But there are a lot of resources there, and you can and will have a thriving marriage if you just put the work into it.

And I'd say also make sure you have your routines in place, because that helps bring a lot of structure and clarity. Have your kind of traditions. Just as to how you're connecting. If you have to connect through video for the holidays and things, just make sure you set that up. And I think another thing, both for the person who's deployed and the spouse who's at home, have something to look forward to. Because I even think sometimes weekly, if it's just, I'm going to give myself a treat and I'm going to go out and I'm going to, you know, get this big cookie and a latte kind of thing, you know, of course, we all want to make sure we're being healthy for a lot of different reasons, but if there's something that, that you can do, a meeting with a friend or just some sort of a routine, something that you really enjoy, that you look forward to, that can get you through a lot of tough times.

I love that. Gosh, you guys are just such a wealth of knowledge. Like, we really appreciate you sharing these insights and especially hearing it from people who have lived it and who have also helped others work through these times, because I know you've done that many times over. So we just appreciate all your insight. We would love for viewers and listeners to be able to contact you. So what's the best way to get ahold of you? You know, whether it's a website, email, social media, whatever it is, and also how to get your book.

Oh, you got it. Absolutely. So you can go to operationthrivingmarriage.com and.

Yeah, so operationthrivingmarriage.com you can contact us through the website there. You can order the book. You can just go to Amazon and order the book. Operationthrivingmarriage.com, also you can find us on Facebook, Jennifer Harvey in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Brian Harvey. It's spelled B R Y O N, so there are fewer, so it might be a little easier. But feel free to reach out on Facebook as well. Those would be the best ways. But yeah, the website has all that information.

Awesome. Well, guys, thank you again for everything you're doing and we highly recommend the book Operation Thriving Marriage. Check it out. As with the website that Brian just mentioned. Guys, thank you again for being here and sharing just this wealth of information and for the life you're living together to be an example to so many. And thank you guys for watching and listening. It's been a great episode. Share this one with a friend, text somebody, say, hey, this is one you guys need to listen to, especially if you've got a friend who happens to be in the military. I think this could really make a difference in their marriage. So when you share it, you partner with us in spreading hope, and that's what we're all about here. So God bless you guys. We'll see you next time. Time.

Bye, guys.