Overcoming Past Sexual Abuse

Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we've got an episode today that we've never really talked about before, but that is so important, and I'm really excited for you all to tune into this.

Yeah, it's. It's one of the most important and significant topics that I think we could address, and it's about overcoming past sexual abuse in marriage, which, tragically, so many couples are in that boat, and it's. It's something that's not talked about enough. And today we're going to interview our good friends Tyler and Alyssa Gordon, who've really just become champions in my mind in this issue. And we'll talk more about what that looks like. But Alyssa experienced horrifically, tragically, years of sexual abuse at the hands of her stepfather from her childhood through her teenage years. That man is now in prison where he belongs. And Tyler and Alyssa have not only worked through that, but they've really become a voice to give others hope who've experienced similar kinds of abuses in their own past and how to deal with it in their marriage. And so if you or someone you love have experienced abuse, and frankly, all of us have someone we love who've experienced abuse, I think this interview is going to be a real encouragement to you. But first, we want to tell you about a very important resource. So check this out.

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Well, Tyler and Alyssa, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. In the intro, we told the folks some of you your powerful story, and I'm just so honored to call you friends. And thank you. Thank you for being willing to come and share here on the podcast.

Yeah, of course.

Thank you, guys.

Well, let's. Let's just jump right in. You Know, we're talking about past sexual abuse, and you guys completely understand how it is to walk through something like that. And so, Alyssa, if you could kind of start us off by telling us a little bit about your story.

Yeah. Well, the sexual abuse started when I was really young. I was eight years old. From there, it progressed. It was. The abuse was from my stepdad. The older I got, he started, you know, bringing in his friends. He brought in a cousin, and, you know, it just. It progressed from there. The abuse stopped when we were 17. When I was 17, and. And we got away from it, you know, and then I met Tyler. I don't know how much detail you want me to go into, because I can, you know. Right.

Well, when Tyler first came into the picture and Tyler, you noticed that something was off and kind of initiated the conversation, if I remember correctly, to kind of bring it out.

Well, we had dated almost for a whole year, and I'm a little younger, So I was 16 when I met her, and she was 17. And it wasn't until her papa on her mother's side offered me a job because I was working full time at Mott's Barbecue. Her mom told me at one point, she said, if you don't get a job, you're gonna have to break up with my daughter. So. And some khaki pants and a collar shirt in the summertime. And I walked door to door to restaurants and Paul and Martinez and got a job. And then eventually her papa offered me a job. And one day I was working with him, this is a year later, and he just started talking about her stepfather and just kind of raised some concerns, almost prodding me to ask her some questions that he was. Been asking, you know, the whole time a lot of the family had been asking. And so I did. The next day, we were at Monterey's, and, you know, I bought my own truck from my first job, so I was able to pick her up, take her, went to Monterey's and asked her if she was ever sexually abused by her stepfather. And it was a. It was a pretty tough moment. I certainly didn't know what to do. I almost acted impulsively. It's not as if I wasn't quite thinking about her feelings anymore. I was just like, you know, just about me for just a split second, you know, until I regained my thoughts and realized, well, this is about her. And so I called my dad and with her permission, and we. We talked about it. And then I think it was not even a week later or maybe two weeks later. Dave we came to the church and sought some pastoral guidance. And you were the one who sat with us.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I was. I was honored to be there in those early moments. Yeah.

We went upstairs with Dave and your mom, and we talked about it. And then from there, we. She decided to make a report to the cops when we pressed charges.

And, well, I didn't really have a choice at the time. Cause we told her, his mom, and his mom was like, if you don't come out about it, you have until Sunday, that Monday. If you don't report, I'm reporting.

Yeah, my mom works for the courthouse. So once we told her, I guess it was just one of those things. She's like, no, we're gonna. We're gonna take care of this the right way.

Because the abuse happened for so long, it wasn't only sexual. It was also physical, emotional, verbal. The abuse was very, very intense. And so I was petrified. And so when Tyler asked me at Monterey's, you know, like, did your dad ever abuse you or sexually abuse you? And I don't even think I answered him. I just broke down and cried. And then he was like, all right, we need to check. We got to go. And so then we went out to the parking lot. You know, Tyler was freaking out. I was freaking out because it was the first time I told anybody. And the only thing going through my mind is, you know, my stepdad's gonna find out. He's gonna find me. He's gonna kill me. You know, he was. He. Although him and my mom were separated, he has a son with my mom, so I have a half brother, which is, you know, belongs to him. And so he was still coming around regularly seeing him. Even though the. The sexual abuse stopped when they separated, he still had that emotional hold, and I was still petrified. And, you know, he'd still threaten me if I ever came out about it. And so I was definitely on the verge of. I was like, you can't tell anybody, Tyler. Like, you don't know this person. He's very dangerous. And so, you know, he called his dad, and I did give him the permission. And then, you know, then we told his mom. And from there, it just snowballed, right?

Yeah. I mean, those. Those kind of evil victimizers like. Like, he was. They rule by fear. And I'm just so proud of you for the courage that both of you showed to walk through this with. With faith and with bringing it to the light. Because once. You know, once something comes out into the light, it has less power over us. And I'm so thankful that that justice was done. And now he is in prison, hopefully for a very, very long time. And you can. You can experience just kind of the freedom of knowing that he's behind bars where he belongs. And I just want to commend you, before we jump in deeper, that, Alyssa, you did not let this steal your light. You are such a joyous person. You and Tyler both. So many people could have just completely been crushed by this and never smiled again. And you just refused to let him or anyone steal that from you. And you're, you know, you've got the joy of the Lord and you've got peace, and you're a wonderful, wonderful couple and wonderful parents, and I'm just so proud of you, just as your friend and, you know, having been your pastor, I'm just so, so proud of you both.

So, Alyssa, you know, what did it look like in those early days? I know you. You know, you talked to his parents, you talked to your mom. You guys, you know, sought justice. And was counseling, you know, a big part of that? And if it was, what did that look like for you, and how did that help you?

Well, talking about it. Definitely talk. You know, I wasn't able to talk to Tyler about it just because I didn't want him to have those images in his head. You know, he had the gist of it. He knew, you know, what. What all happened. But I'm talking about it to a counselor. Just being able to talk freely and talk about every single thing that I went through without, you know, knowing that it could affect this person anyway. That's. I think what really helped me the most is just being able to talk in detail what happened. And, you know, that just that it was like a weight just lifted off because all those secrets that I was hoarding and that I had to keep inside, you know, being able to just bring those out to light, helped so much.

Yeah. That is so healthy. And, Alyssa, what would you say to encourage that person that's listening right now? And maybe they're still holding on to their secrets. Maybe they've never told anybody, even their spouse, and they're trying to deal with this on their own, and it's creating just kind of all kinds of baggage that they just keep burying down or maybe, you know, they've shared just a little bit, but they haven't really done the hard work of bringing it all out into the open like you did in the counseling process. How would you encourage that person who's listening to take those Healthy steps that you took.

I would definitely encourage them. Well, when I was in counseling, you know, I was a teenager, so after I kind of. I did counseling with child enrichment for a year and a half. And then after that, you know, I still needed those people to talk to. So I, of course, joined a small group at my church. And the ladies in that small group, they really helped me. So I would definitely encourage the people going through these types of situations to definitely tell somebody, like, even if it's starting. Start out with a friend and just get connected with somebody. Because there is no way you're gonna get through this on your own.

No way. It's so true. You know, your community that surrounds you and your support system is essential in times like these. And I do think, though, it's just human nature, especially when it's such trauma like this, when someone has abused you in this in a sexual kind of way, I do think people tend to shy away from talking about this. Cause they feel like other people would look at them differently or they couldn't handle it, and. Or they would, you know, maybe have pity, and you wouldn't want them to have pity on you, you know. How did you. How did you wrestle with that? Because we hear that a lot from different people who write us as to why they don't really come out with it, because maybe they do tell their spouse, but then they never take that next step of joining a small group or getting in a support group or going to a Christian counselor. You know, what would you say to that person?

You know, it took me a long time. It took me years to come out and be comfortable with it. Because that was my main thing. I didn't want people to start looking at me different. I didn't want that. Like you were saying. That's. That was my main thing. I wanted people to see me as me and not that the girl that was sexually abused.

Right. Yeah.

I did not want that image over me, so. And even when. Because with all the. Everything that's been coming out, you know, we had an interview with the news station. They were trying to call us victims. And I was like, don't call me a victim. I'm not a victim. You know, I was very adamant about that. And so I did struggle with that. I didn't want to be looked at as a victim. Right.

And that's so understandable. And I hear you saying that you kind of have to be your own advocate and stand up for yourself a lot, you know, And Tyler as her husband, you know, I'm Just trying to give the timeline here. So when you were dating, you know, you talked to Tyler about it, he asked you the question, you told him about it, you guys sought justice, and you started, you know, getting the help that you needed. And then you guys get engaged now, and you're getting ready to get married, and then you get married. What did those kind of conversations look like? Because, you know, when it comes to sexual abuse specifically, this can really hinder a married couple's sex life. Because, you know, there can be. Like, you said you didn't want to tell Tyler all the details because you didn't want him to have those images. But, Alyssa, you have those images. You know, you have that trauma you live through. How did you guys navigate that?

Well, when it came to intimacy and sex, for the longest time, like, I couldn't close my eyes because when we were having sex and I would. If my eyes were shut, I would automatically start picturing my stepdad. And then I would, you know, I start just getting terrified. And so for a long while, I had to focus that you're with your husband, you know, you're at the love of your life. This. You know, you're willing this time. You know, so for a long time, and there were times where, you know, we would go to do something sex wise, and I'd be like, no, I don't want to. And, you know, thankfully, I don't know if Tyler can speak on, like, if he knew what I was thinking or if he would, you know, Tyler can speak on that aspect.

I was. I was just humbly denied. That's all. The hardest part for me was just her waking up in the middle of the night, some nights crying because of a bad dream.

Yeah.

That had the most impact on me. And I've never really been a cuddler because I sweat at nighttime, but it's during those times where cuddling was my best attribute.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. Well, you were her safe place. And I think it's a privilege for one spouse to be the safe place for the other. And I know you two are that for each other. And it's just so healthy how you've navigated this. This together and really were able to enter into your marriage with a. With a fresh start. And you didn't let this. You know, Alyssa, like you said, you were not defined by this abuse in any way. You're not defined in any way as a victim. You know, this is something terrible that was. That was done to you against your will. And you've. You've embraced the Healing journey that God makes possible. And you've. You've taken every healthy step imaginable to continue to pursue that. And it's just such a. Such a great. Such a great roadmap.

It is absolutely. You know, I know for a lot of people who walk through this, both for the person who was abused and for their spouse, I think it can also cause a crisis of faith. You know, how did you all navigate that? Cause when these horrible things happen, that's when people do question God. They're like, God, you know, how could you let this happen? And, you know, why me or why us? How did you navigate that?

I definitely did question God, especially throughout the whole time I was being abused, because I would pray every single night. Like, just do anything to take me out of this situation. I don't even care if you kill this man. You know, Like, I just. I would pray every night. And so after it went on for nine years, you know, after it happened for so long, you're just like, is there even a God out there? You know, am I praying to air? You know, is anyone hearing me? So, yeah, definitely. It took a toll on me. And, you know, I even grew up in church. And my stepdad is actually the one who got us at Stevens Creek Church.

Wow.

And the only reason why we started going to Stevens Creek Church is because my stepdad was a huge Carolina Gamecock fan, and so is Pastor Marty. And so that was the only reason why we started going to church. And so he actually got us involved in it. And, you know, although I don't. I can't tell you his aspect on God, but.

Right.

Going. Going there, you know, even though I was with my abuser, there was just something safe about the church, you know, and so that's why we. I continued to go. And, you know, my. My faith just continued to grow. And you start realizing, like, things happen for a purpose. And I think my. Although I would not. If I had the chance, I would not go through all that again, obviously. But I do think my purpose in life is to kind of be an advocate for, you know, people going through this and let people know there is a light at the end of that dark tunnel you're going through right now.

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do with my life either. I just graduated Youth Challenge before I met my wife. I was kind of not sure what to do. And she. She brought, you know, God put her in place for me as a part of his purpose and his plan for my life, which would be A father and a husband, ever growing family. I hope there's more and more to come. And so it's made my faith just. I mean, I still feel like a baby Christian, you know, if that. If that makes sense to you guys. Because I'm studying and I'm, you know, I'm doing the things that God's calling me to do. And I think that's what List is doing, too. And she's. She's just growing and growing in her faith. And God's blessed her with a pure heart. She can do good without even trying. And it's frustrating because I'm, like, asking for forgiveness for all these sins that I can count on my fingers, and I can't even name one, even though I know nobody's sinless. But to me, she just continues to grow in that way, which is really cool.

Well, she. She is an extraordinary lady, for sure. And you and I, Tyler, have that in common. We both married extraordinary ladies. And you're an extraordinary guy as well, for sure. And I love how you guys have approached this tragic situation and let it bring you closer to God instead of a wedge to drive you away. Because we know that God did not cause this horrific thing to be done, but this was done by the evil and sinful choices of someone who is far from the Lord. But we also know that God works all things together for good. And he takes the broken, you know, the ugliest parts of what sin can do and what life can throw at us. And if we'll let him, he will not only bring healing to it, but he will. He'll bring some good out of it. Like you said, like he's done for you in making you advocates now and allowing you to be an inspiration to so many others who have allowed sexual abuse to define them and to be the thing that killed their faith or the thing that crushed their marriage or their dreams or their soul. And you guys are such a beautiful and real example of those who've grieved and those who have suffered through this. And yet, at the same time, you've emerged in such a beautiful and healthy place, and you continue to heal and emerge in such a healthy place. And I think that that's. That's wonderful.

It is. And I just wanna say, too, what I hear you guys saying is, in different situations, I want those of you who are listening, maybe your story is very similar to Tyler and Alyssa's story. And you're thinking, I don't know if I could do what they're doing. I don't Know, if I could actually bring it out in the open and have the whole public know this story, and I just wanna say that's okay. What I hear in their story is that Tyler really, you know, he looked to Alyssa as to how she wanted this narrative to play out because she was the one who was abused. And I think it's really important and that those of you listening hear that we're not saying that, you know, anyone who was abused, that they need to bring it completely out in the open to the public and start support groups and be an advocate. That may not be the journey that God has for you, but what we are saying is that you do need to talk to your spouse about it. You do need to talk to a counselor about it. Those are steps you definitely need to take. But, you know, your story may look different than Tyler and Alyssa's. You know, he may not want it to be something that the news brings out in the open and started ministries from it and be on a podcast about it. But for them, this is their story. And there is power in this, as you can hear in Alyssa's voice. Like she said, she's not a victim. She is not allowing her abuser to have any more power over her or her life. But that has taken years for her to get there. So I just want to make that very clear, because I know that if you're in the early phases of dealing with this, you know, when you're listening to her story, there are many years here where she has done the hard work and she's allowed God to move in her life. And she's chosen, you know, she's chosen really just to walk a road of integrity and to not allow resentment and bitterness to take root in her heart. But I know, Alyssa, that. That. That's been a journey. Right? I mean, that's. Just speak to those people who are kind of in the early phases of really coming out with the truth of their abuse.

Oh, definitely. When I. When we first came out about it, because my sister, along with me, was also abused. Yes. And so I also had her to go through, but, you know, she was. She didn't want to talk about it. Whereas I, you know, I was the one. I wanted to tell the counselor about it. You know, I wasn't about being out in the open. I didn't want anyone in the public to know about it. It has taken nine to 10 years to even talk to the news about it, you know, and just the only reason why the news came in is because we now know somebody that's working child enrichment. And so they. They were like, hey, you know, you. You. You were counseling a friend of ours. And, you know, so that's kind of how that came about. But, you know, it's. It's taken nine to ten years for me to be completely open about it. So it's definitely was a journey, and it was not an easy journey to overcome.

I. I can't even imagine.

Yeah, it's. And you guys have done it so heroically, and I. And I love how you. You know that this is a part of your story forever, but how you're refusing to be defined by words like. Like victim and so, like Alyssa.

How.

What was the how. How did. How did you rise above ever seeing yourself with that label sticking on you? And, Tyler, how did you just. Always, in a loving, supportive way as you supported your wife through this, but never looking at her with. With a label like victim as well, because you guys have clearly done it in such a healthy way. So what would your advice be to those who can't seem to shake those kind of labels?

Well, for me, the. I never wanted the word victim, not only because my stepdad always told me that I would never amount to anything. You know, I felt like he had. He had every single aspect of my life, controlled every little thing. You know, he had control. So as soon as we broke that, I refused to let him have that control. I refused to let him have that fear over me. I refused to let him control anything about me. And I just feel like the word victim, that kind of still gives him that authority, if that makes sense.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it does.

It does. And, Tyler, how did you kind of not, you know, see her as that.

Well, as somebody who pretty much wanted to escape their own past also, it was almost like. It was almost like a relieving task of mine to make sure I do my best to make sure we're always looking forward and not have her thinking that I'm thinking because of what happened to her in the past any differently of her than she would think any differently of me because of what I've done or what happened in my past. So, I mean, that should apply to anybody, really.

Yeah. That's very well said.

Yeah, absolutely. As you guys move forward now and you're in such a place of healing, but I know that. That, you know, these. These. These scars are real that you carry. Do you. Do you see any side effects now that you still have to deal with? You know, big or small things that pop up that. That you still deal with as A residual effect of this. And if so, how do you work through that?

I definitely still have, you know, some aspects of it. Like, anytime sometimes I still feel the need of Tyler's wanting to have sex, and I'm not wanting to. I feel there's something inside of me that still says, you can't tell him no. So I still, you know, I still struggle with that. And, you know, I think he's kind of caught on. If I, like, look a certain way, if my face is kind of giving him an expression, he's just like, okay, I feel you. You know, but, like, I still struggle to this day to where I feel like I can't tell my husband.

No.

You know, I was never allowed to do that. And so that's still a struggle that's ongoing. And I have found my voice in that for the most part, you know, like, I. I can tell him, like, you know. No, but sometimes I still get that to where I'm just like, okay.

You know, and I still struggle not to be frustrated in that moment.

Right, right.

And I think some of those are just frustrations any couple, you know, can kind of navigate.

But there's a whole other layer when there's been this past, you know, deep layer. What I hear you all saying, though, is you guys have just tremendous respect for each other in those moments. You know, you're trying to serve one another, both of you. And really, it is that navigation, you know, it's a journey. It's something that, you know, you're constantly kind of staying in tune. And I think it's awesome that you guys are aware of that. You're both very aware of that. And like you said, Alyssa, you both are able to voice kind of your true feelings in those moments, and that's kind of how you have to get through it in marriage. Because like we always say on here, most issues, no matter what the kind of. The source of the issue, a lot of it, if it continues to be an issue, it's a communication issue because people just don't talk about it. But you guys are talking about it even when it's hard. And that's just. That's awesome that you're choosing continually to walk that road. I wanna ask you, before we wrap this up, I wanna ask you. You guys have two kids now, correct?

Correct.

And they are five. And what's your youngest age?

Two, five year old son and a two year old daughter.

Oh, how precious. And you're in the thick of parenting, you know, in what you guys have lived through with this how has it been becoming parents? Has it been redeeming for you? Or has it been scary since, you know, kind of how dark things can be in the world? How's it been?

It has been terrifying for me on my end. It has been, absolutely. Because, you know, growing up, I would be. Our whole entire family would be together, and sexual abuse would be happening right under the roof of everybody. You know, we'd be at a family event. And so it makes me nervous, you know, like, you. Although you're my family, I still don't know your deepest, darkest desires, you know, so it's. It is very, very terrifying for me. I feel like I can't let my kids out of my sight and just even, you know, be with the closest of family. And I'm like, I've got to keep my eyes on my kids at all times, you know, so it's. It's a scary and a sad thought that you have to think that way, but my mind won't go anywhere else.

Yeah.

Yeah. We can also rely on the discernment that God gives us in a lot of cases, so long as we continue to be faithful and choose to follow him and everything he says. Because I feel like a lot of times it's a parent's decisions that lead to tragedy. So as a parent, you know, we have to be on our toes at any given point.

You're so right. And I love how you talked about discernment. That's right. Just staying in tune with the Lord. And. And really, I think so many times what happens in these kind of situations is we make excuses. We see things that are off, and then we justify it in our mind, and we make excuses, and it's so easy for us as human beings to do that. So I know what you're saying. It's like if something seems off and you notice something about somebody and maybe they're acting a little, you're like. That doesn't seem right to me. It's like not dismissing it and actually going through and asking those hard questions and. And being vigilant, but also knowing that God is in control and not allowing fear to kind of just take over. Because I think in these situations with especially what you all have walked through, I mean, fear really could just take your breath away every day. Especially, like you said, Alyssa, there are moments when you can have eyes on your kids. You send them to school. There's different situations they're in. And so the enemy would love nothing more than here. You've come through everything. You've come through. And now you have these beautiful gifts from God of your own, and he would love nothing more than to throw us off our game and let fear take over. But you guys are being so just mindful of where your mind and heart goes and doing, you know, being prepared as parents and being vigilant, but also allowing God's peace to be in your heart and your home. And so I commend you all on that. And you all are just amazing. You really are an inspiration, not only to us, but to so many.

Yeah, Tyler definitely balances me out because although the fear I feel like, you know, I didn't let my stepdad take the fear. I stopped his fear on me, but now it's transferred over to my kids, and I feel like I fear the world with my kids. So Tyler, definitely that fear I had for my stepdad is now the fear I have on the world. Right. And so Tyler definitely balances me out with that. He, you know, has to tell me a lot of times, like, Alyssa, just breathe.

Right, that's good.

The kids can go 10ft from the park in the park from you.

Right? Yeah.

So, yeah, Tyler definitely is my balance on that.

Well, you two are a beautiful balance for each other and just a beautiful couple in every way. And before we wrap up, we want to invite you to be part of our Q and A segment. At the end of every podcast episode, we have a real question that comes in from a real couple, and we just do our best to answer it. And so today's question is one that I think you guys could. Could really help with. And so we're going to just read this question, and then we'll wrap up just by talking about it together.

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So here's the question. It says, over the last year, my wife came out and said she's never enjoyed sex due to sexual abuse when she was a child. We've not been intimate since, and she will not go to a counselor. She said she is working on it by herself, but I see no changes, and she won't talk about any of it. I'm trying to be supportive, loving, and caring to her, but it's wearing on me. What should I be doing? And so here we have just a heartbreaking situation of, you know, of a woman who. Who can't move forward and won't, you know, just doesn't know how to move forward, and a husband who doesn't know how to help her move forward. And they both feel stuck in a cycle that could potentially, you know, end the marriage. And that's just a tragic situation. And so I think we've talked about some things already that. That could help this couple, and I hope that they're listening today and know that we're praying for them. But what would. What would your advice be to. To this couple? Yeah.

You said they were married, right?

Yes, yes.

I'm not sure how long he's known about this sexual abuse, but she's basically told him that she has never. I think, obviously they have been intimate. They've been married for at least a certain amount of time. But she just confessed to him that she's never really liked sex because she was abused. And now she's stopped. She's refusing sex, and he's, you know, obviously. And counseling. And he's getting frustrated because of it, but also really wants to help her, definitely.

Well, I guess I would. I would start by addressing it the same way I would or suggest the same way that if somebody who lost the ability to have sex.

Yeah.

For example, but are still married, God's still calling you to be that special someone to that person. And he's definitely gonna have a lot of work to do. If he's frustrated, I would probably certainly be frustrated too. I'm sure Dave would also. But they're married, so in that light, I would put that marriage first. And then sex would come way later, you know, because if they're struggling with something like that and they need help, then, you know, obviously he's gonna have to try and encourage her to get help, but he's just gonna have to be the best husband he can be at this time. I feel like it might just be a Waiting period. I don't know. What do you think, babe?

Yeah. I mean, speaking on her side, I can understand where she's coming from, definitely. I mean, there have been, you know, Tyler would, you know, talk to me about. You can make a small group, and it can be about past sexual abuse. And I'm like, whoa, you know. You know, and so I feel her. Her pain in that. And so I would just recommend just hold off. You know, just hold on and be there for her the best way that she will allow you to. And right now, she doesn't need anybody pushing her towards that. And although that. She will get there. She will get there. You know, I have faith that she will, but right now, she just needs to know she has that safe place. And the more she's pushed towards coming out about it, the further she's going to be about it.

You know, that's so true. I think so many times, especially when one spouse has gone through something and is really coping and they went through a trauma and they're trying to find healing, but I think when the other spouse hasn't been through that same thing, it's hard to not want to rush it because, you know, you obviously want to see your spouse have healing. But the. The truth about healing is it's a process, and it looks different for every single person, even if they went through a very similar trauma. And so, you know, I love what you guys are saying about just being patient. And this is a time too, really seeking the Lord, you know, like, God can fill that void kind of in his heart when his mind starts going to, man, I'm just so frustrated. I haven't had sex in forever. It's like, that's a time to pray for your wife. And I know that's hard.

I mean.

Oh, exactly. It is. It's our greatest weapon against anything that's just trying to separate us in our marriage or maybe even bring us further from the Lord. It's going to our knees in prayer. So.

Yeah. And from her perspective, you know, I've never personally experienced what she's experienced, but I can imagine that when you're in a situation where all power is taken from you and things are forced against your will, that anytime you're being pushed, even if it's out of love, towards something healthy like counseling or whatever, if it's not originating with you, you feel like potentially somebody's trying to take your power again and to just be sensitive to that, you know, like what Tyler and Alyssa have said to love her and support her and Let her come to this in her own timing and her own terms.

Right.

But then to encourage this woman as well, to make those decisions quickly to pursue healing, because you say, I'm dealing with this by myself. We're not meant to deal with anything by ourselves in life. God did not design us to fix ourselves. He did not design us.

We can't fix ourselves.

We can't. We can't do it. We need help. His solution for any kind of healing in the Bible, it always happens through relationship, relationship with God, relationship with loved ones, relationship through seeking wise counsel. And if we truly need healing in any part of our life, then we have to not listen to that voice of pride to say, nobody can tell me what to do, but to really listen to that voice of love that says, you don't have to get through this on your own. And I'm so thankful for that.

I would even suggest he start doing things in secret, special for her, as our Father in heaven does things secretly for us that we don't know about, to start showering her with secrets and maybe study up on. On her situation through people and through it. So I think he's gonna be just fine.

Yeah. Thoughtfulness will go a long, long way. And our prayers are with that couple and with all who are listening who are maybe in similar situations. Well, Tyler and Alyssa, before we wrap up, what resources or final words of wisdom would you share with those who are listening? And many who are listening and who have continued to listen now to the end of this episode either themselves have experienced the kind of horrific abuse that we've talked about today, or I have a loved one who has. And so what would you suggest for those who've been so encouraged, hopefully, by this conversation, but want to take next steps to continue healing? What should some of those next steps look like?

Well, I would say I know Alyssa has her own things with counseling, and that's really good. She'll mention that in a minute. But I would say the first thing that I would suggest is go find a church now, because there's so many churches out there, you may have to go to a few to find out where there's one who will fit and help you, where you need to be. I think that's important to find a connection between people and outside influence. And I believe the church to be the best outside influence you could ever get. And that would be my suggestion.

Yeah. As far as counseling, the only counseling that I'm aware of, of course, is child enrichment, just because that's where I went. But I Do know they only deal with children that was sexually abused, and they don't necessarily help adults, but they. That could be a start. They can refer you to a counselor. But if you're just wanting to help, I know Child Enrichment is always looking for volunteers. They're always looking for help and, you know, helping children. And you can become. You can become someone that can help them with the kids that come in, because Lord knows, that place is what got me through and got me on my path.

Wow.

There are a lot of children.

They are overflowed with abused children. The CSRA right now probably goes for.

Almost any counseling program for child abuse, unfortunately.

Absolutely. And thank God for those places that offer children. And even, like you said, Alyssa, I mean, sometimes people don't come to terms with this until they're an adult. But I know that there are counselors out there that specialize in sexual trauma and just make sure to, you know, to do your homework on your counselor, too. And I think, just like Tyler said, you know, you might have to go to several churches to find that right church that really speaks to your heart and really shows you the Lord in a very real and fresh way. In the same way counselors are the very same way. So many times people go to one counselor and they're like, they just didn't get me. And I didn't feel like they were really understanding my situation. It's very similar. Sometimes you have to go to several counselors to find one where you can really get the healing that you need. So don't give up just the first time if it doesn't work, Keep on finding that right counselor that can really help you and lead you on your healing journey.

Yeah. And then definitely just pray about it.

Oh, for sure.

Yes.

I mean, exactly. I know we keep on coming back to prayer. I mean, we've got to have that discernment like you guys talked about in every way. And not even in, you know, even if you've never been through a situation like this, we all need discernment in all of our situations and in our marriage and our families, and so definitely pray about it. And God will lead you to the right person, to the right path, and definitely bring you the healing that you need. And we just appreciate you all so much. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedules to talk to us. I know this is helping so many. Sure.

No, we love you guys and just are cheering you on and praying for continued blessings for your family, for your kids, just for all the great things God has in store for you and we know that he's got great things in store and and thank you again for your courage and sharing this today. I know that it's impacted those who've listened and thank you all who have listened. Thank you for being part of this online community here at the Naked Marriage Podcast. If you'd like to send in a question like the one we just answered, you can do that@nakedmarriagepodcast.com you can also find Ashley and me on social media, aveandashleywillis on Instagram or just search for marriage on Facebook and our page will pop up and we love to interact with you there. And we also encourage you to check out all of the podcasts and resources Marriage Today and EXO make possible and you can find out more about all that@marriagetoday.com thank you for listening. Thanks for reviewing. Thanks for sharing this podcast and joining with us and spreading this message of hope around the world. We love you guys. We'll see you next time.

Bye guys.

Thank you.