Praying More in Your Marriage // Hump Day

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, I am so excited about the guests that we are interviewing today. You are in for a real treat.

I am literally giddy with excitement. And we're recording. Before I even get to who the guest is, I just want to say we're recording in one of the coolest places we've ever recorded.

So cool.

I mean, the Naked Marriage podcast studio at the XO office is awesome and as is our little makeshift studio at home. But for the first time ever, we're recording in this awesome studio at First Dallas. And the reason why.

First Baptist Dallas.

You said First Dallas.

I know.

Is that like what the cool kids call it?

That's what the cool kids call it.

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

But it's also First Baptist Dallas. And Julia Jeffress Sadler is the best selling author of Pray Big Things, a license, professional counselor, and the next gen minister at First Baptist Dallas. She's also the host of the podcast Unapologetic, which we were guests on and had a great time. Julia is passionate about discussing God's word on today's topics and how to have bold faith in a broken world. We're going to talk so much about their inspiring story. She and her husband Ryan have an amazing testimony. They have three precious little kids, triplets. And so she can talk about life with multiples. Life, you know, after overcoming infertility and man, just she's lived a ton of life and I'm excited just to dive into this conversation. Julia, welcome.

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Should I say welcome? Like it's at your place. I feel like I've like come to your house for dinner in the middle.

And you fetus, come on in.

Yeah, but you've been such a gracious host and so thank you for letting us be here.

Oh yeah, y' all are awesome. I'm excited for this.

Well, we love to start out our podcast episodes where we have guests with hearing more about your marriage story. And I saw here in my notes that you and your husband met in middle school. I would love to hear more about your love story.

Okay, awesome. Okay. So Ryan and I met when we were 13, and our love story goes completely with our testimony. So that's, like, just something neat that God did. I actually invited Ryan to our church, to his First Baptist, Wichita Falls, and we're having Disciple now weekend. And that's when he accepted Christ. And so we dated off and on as teenagers and then got back together when we were 19 and have been together. We're on right now. We're not breaking up. No. But we got married when we were 20, and we've been married for 13 years.

Oh, my goodness.

That's amazing.

I love that. I love hearing these middle school romances or, like, at least when you, you know, you first meet each other. I know several couples like that. And so I always tease parents when they're like, oh, it's just puppy love. I'm like, listen here. I know, like, five different couples.

Yeah, I have a totally different opinion on that because my parents also met in junior high, and so. And we've been in student ministry for 13 years. So I understand when parents are hesitant, but I'm also like, you know, it's not really like you meet someone better when you're 25. Exactly. There's just a lot more issues and you have to work through. So I think. I think it's a blessing. Of course, you have to be careful when it comes with its own challenges. And, yes, we broke up a lot. Like, that was enough of a joke, actually, at the wedding. But I remember when I was a junior high, and I would write my name with his, and we would talk about. I mean, people laugh, but we would say, like, I really think we're supposed to get married. And we. I mean, I really felt that. And so much to the point that then when I was dating other people, I mean, God would remind me of Ryan. And we just. We have so much fun together. We're just best friends, but also have that joint calling into student ministry, which is just really neat. And, of course, I know everyone doesn't have that story, but it has been a significant legacy in our family. Sure, teenage romance. That's a bad way to say that. But anyway, it is. And my dad brought my mom to church, and that's when she accepted Christ. So important things happen in teenage years. Not always, but they definitely can.

Well, and what a beautiful start to invite them to church, you know, and to grow up in your faith. And I'm sure you've been through a lot together and one thing I really want to spend a lot of our time talking about is really your story with infertility. I feel like you are your book, which is Pray Big Things, which I love that title. It's just the perfect title. You said you talk even more extensively about this. So we want to make sure if you guys want to hear even more of a story, definitely go get that book. And I know you're going to want to hear more of it, so definitely put that on your list. But I would love to hear about it because we do have so many people that struggle with infertility. But really kind of I feel like suffering silence. I don't feel like it's talked about enough. And I would love it if you could just share more about your experience with it.

So our story started with prayer. So we had been married for seven years and we really didn't have anything going wrong at the time. You know, it's not like we're like billionaires and everything was amazing, but I mean, there wasn't really anything pervasively wrong. At that seven year mark. We were in London, it was New Year's Eve and we were at a church, which being a pastor's hour, you don't really ever go to another church. And we're in church staff, so we're like, let's go to another church. We're like already feeling so rebellious. But any. We went to a New Year's concert and or service and the pastor said, who wants more out of their lives? And Ryan and I were just kind of like, we do like raising our hand and they're like, who wants more out of their ministry? And we're like, yeah, like we do. And it was just like a different idea. They used very much James 4:13. You have not. Because you ask not. And we went home or we went to the hotel that night and instead of making New Year's resolutions, we made a list of 20 things that we were going to pray until God said no or until he clearly said yes. And so we weren't going to tell anyone. Like it was just us. It wasn't like we're posting it on Instagram, like it was just for us. But it was our biggest dreams and biggest prayers. Our true, like heartfelt desires. Not something like we just thought would be cool. It was what are those true desires on our heart? And so on that list were three children, multiples. Because I had always, like ever since I was young, just it sounds funny, but I had just always really wanted twins. Like it was just this desire God had put in my heart. So we had multiples. And Ryan knew that for God to do more than anything we could hope or imagine. So praying scripture, we had someone close to us that we really wanted to get sober. So we put their sobriety on there. And then our life changed really as teenagers when we caught a vision, a love for evangelism. And so that was something we wanted for our student ministry. So we put their student ministry would catch a love, a vision for evangelism, and just some very, very specific things. And so we were kind of like, that's neat. And so we committed to praying it multiple times a day until it happened or until God was like, no, this isn't what I have for you. So then I got pregnant, like immediately. Wow. And we had never tried. And I remember this is weird. It's kind of a weird memory, but I remember thinking, that was easy. I just need to do it again. Which is like a really. Like what was. I think I was already pregnant. But I remember thinking, well, got that. And then we ended up losing that first baby, which was devastating and very sad. It actually happened on a night we were having this girls event in our backyard and we had a hundred girls. And I call it Legacy night. And it was about living your legacy. That was the catchphrase. And about how God has a purpose for you right here, not just in the future. And so that was very surreal. Like losing our first biological children, where I had 100 spiritual children in the backyard. And so that was an important theme because every miscarriage ended up like going along with a huge spiritual milestone. The second baby I lost, while right before it was the greatest evangelism initiative our student ministry had ever seen. We ended up doing something called Tell the world. We just explained to students how to witness how to share their faith and really did old school on the street. Evangelism saw 150 people witnessed to by teenagers in a matter of few months. And then the last baby, I mean, you just can't make this stuff up. It was when I was speaking at a. At a women's conference on why God allows suffering. So it was very much like I just felt like I really had like a demon, an angel on my shoulder. Because really there really was a very real battle going on. And I didn't, I didn't know what was coming. But it was very clear that Satan was trying to discourage us and God was trying to encourage us. Cause you couldn't, I mean, you just couldn't Sorry. You just couldn't miss it. And I remember one time, you know, we're Baptists, but I remember it was a little charismatic.

Y.

But I remember standing up in my office. Cause I really felt just very taunted. Like, I felt like I was being very almost like, teased and I. Like by the enemy. And I stood up and said, I'm not going anywhere, so you better bring it. Because I know God hasn't forgotten me. And I said it, like, out loud. I don't know who I was saying it to, but I mean, it was very much like, I have to put a stake in the ground and say I'm not giving up. Not going to turn back on my faith or on Ryan or get any weird ideas like, God is for me, you are against me, and I'm not going to give up. And maybe that means we're not going to have codes.

Wow. It's incredible. And I. I love how you spoke out loud. You know, Jesus himself, when he's being tempted by the enemy, speaks out loud.

Scripture. Right, Right.

And. And I do feel like I. I think anyone listening, I'm sure they've had moment like that. And I use the word taunting. And that's what the enemy does, you know, to try to discourage us. And. And man, after so much. I mean, so much like you said, the highs and the lows, you know, in that season. So, you know, I feel like I'm asking too many questions. Did you have another question you wanted to ask? I'm sorry, I'm, like, so riveted. I want to hear more about it. So kind of after kind of that turning point of you putting that stake in the ground, what did it look like in your marriage and kind of in your journey after that?

Well, I told you before we started, I feel like one of God's biggest graces to me was becoming a therapist before all of this happened. It was like training ground before then going into battle. And so that was. It was really good to have an understanding. Like, I already knew infertility is hard on marriages. I already knew. Obviously, losing a baby and multiple babies is trauma. So, like, we had Ryan and I had a good vocabulary around it. Like, very much so. Like, I remember one time even saying, I'm choosing not to process this because, like, I don't have time to with work. So I'm going to process this in a month. Like, I mean, we really had really good communication during that time period. And we kept praying. Like we didn't feel like. We didn't feel like it was God saying no. So it was more of, are you going to keep praying these big things? Are you going to keep trusting me? And what's interesting is how much it coincides, really, the infertility discussion with psychology. Because a lot of Christians don't seek out psychological help. A lot of Christians don't seek out infertility help. And it's kind of the same idea. A little bit of legalism and fear and I think twisting Scripture. And of course, I have had people tell me, like, God told them, like, gave them a piece about not seeking fertility treatment, and that's fine. But there would have been nothing pro life about us just keep getting pregnant and having miscarriages. So really, like, for us, like, we felt all green lights, you need to go see a doctor. It's, you know, I think it was like 2016, and thankfully, like, we don't live in the dark ages where we have to keep having this happen. And so we. We felt like it was fine that we had that freedom in Christ and we knew what we would do and what we wouldn't do. And so we definitely sought out fertility help. The reason I don't mass advertise that is because people think, oh, well, that's how you got the tripods. And. And they think that's kind of an immediate thing where if you talk to anyone who's had fertility treatments, you know, that does not mean you get a baby that is not short sighting God or tricking anything. Like, there are plenty of couples that still don't have kids even after fertility treatment. But I remember they gave me a medication, was not supposed to create twins or we didn't do IVF or anything. But whenever they said that they were gonna put me on this medication, I remember I called Ryan and said, this is how I'm gonna get my twins. Like, I said, that's. And it was neat, though, theologically, just that God put a desire in my heart. Then we had a struggle. And then God definitely used medication which never basically results in triplets. So that's why we just like to downplay it a little bit. Cause we felt like God used that for it to come about. But it all. It did all work out and we ended up becoming pregnant with triplets. And it was just amazing. And you know the movie Encanto, I don't know if y' all have seen it, but, you know, it has the dad fainting and like that. That wasn't us. Like, we were. We were cheering, we were high fiving. We felt like we'd won a gold medal. We were. We were thrilled. And then really heavy anxiety, of course, set in because that was pregnant with six kids in less than a year.

Wow.

Oh, man. That's so much to process. And, like, your body and your mind has been through so much.

Right?

It's a lot.

Right?

It's a lot. I mean, you two just, in a short period of time, had a lifetime's worth of really tense situations. But then, you know, you've got this miracle. Three babies. More than the blessing you prayed for, more than the twin. God said, I'm gonna see your twins and raise you one. And what a gift. But that wasn't the end of the story. You know, there continued to be ups and downs. And so walk us through, you know, the pregnancy, and I know even post pregnancy, some very, very serious health challenges. And then. And then ultimately having an opportunity with the show rattled to live that season of your lives as in a very public way to share your story and the way that you use that to share your testimony, give hope to people. People heard the gospel because you guys were on that show.

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Hey, welcome into Walgreens.

Hi there.

Hey.

All right, hon. I'll grab the gift wrap cards and.

Oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.

Great.

And I'll grab the string lights and some.

How about I grab some cough drop shops? This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.

I'm fine, honey.

Well, just in case. You know what they say, tis the season.

This is help staying healthy through the holidays.

Walgreens.

But. But, you know, there's so much like four. You guys have basically been in isolation for. For four years between, you know, the twins early or the triplets early years. And then Covid right on the heels of that. And it's just. It's a lot.

It's a lot.

Rewind the clock and. Yeah, talk us through some of that.

So the first trimester, I couldn't even say the word triplets. I was terrified. Not because of them. Like, I was so excited, but I was Worried it wouldn't happen. And I mean, that's what a lot of people of course say after loss. But also it's automatically high risk. So twins are not automatically, but it's called higher order multiples. So triplets. And I mean, it's not. Are you, are you going to be. You are, like. And I was scared it wasn't going to happen. So, like, I had a hard time even saying triplets. And then second trimester, I remember just being like, God, like, the anxiety is like, I mean, like, I can't take it. Like, if we're going to have to like, tell me it's going to be okay, or I have a running theory that you're closest to God, pregnant and single. I don't know. I'm going to ask God if that's true, like when you get to heaven. But like, I think scripture backs up when you're in distress and a lot of people are searching for answers and a lot of people are, you know, in distress or searching for answers and they're single or in a hard situation or pregnant. And so I've had, even though it was very difficult, I had some of the most amazing moments with God pregnant. And one was we're on our family vacation and Ryan and I have a ritual of going and praying for the year and there's somewhere we go and I, I couldn't walk to that place. So we're on the balcony and I, I couldn't really find the words to pray. And of course the Bible says the Holy Spirit prays on your behalf. And I was like, okay, Holy Spirit, you need to pray for me. But I just started practicing praying scripture, so praying scripture back to God. And I remember I was praying in Psalms, the verse that says, if you know who will praise you in death. And it's really just talking about how scary it is and that ultimately in some way, like, of course, if someone's dead, they're not praising you, which is a very dark, a dark verse, but it's just true. And that was like how I felt. Like, I was like, I want, I want to live. I want the babies to live. I want us to be able to praise you. And I was just really like in anguish. And Ryan was with me and the clouds, it was all dark outside. And right. I mean, I told God, I need you to tell me that it's gonna be okay. I cannot function. Like, I was just like overwhelmed with fear. And right as we were praying verses out of Psalm, and I like looked up and there was a Light, like, only on Ryan and me. And it was from the sun, but, like, all around us, like, you could see, like, because we're in this field on this balcony, there was no light anywhere, and there was just a light shining right on Ryan and me. And so there were just different experiences, like, that. I went, like, 24 hours without feeling them. And I prayed. I said, God, I need to know they're okay. And I went to bed that night and I saw their faces. And, I mean, I don't know if that's really what they looked like or not, but, I mean, there were just different ways that he encouraged me. But we did feel like there was a. You know, you lost three pregnant with three. There's the bow, there's the story. And then at 23 weeks, we ended up going into preterm labor. And the doctor came in at the hospital and said, I'm so sorry, but they're going to be born blind, deaf with brain bleeds, or not survive at all if they're born right now. And I really. As loud as I've ever heard anything. I heard God say, no, like, I mean, really, like, in my spirit, in my head. And I was like, okay, you're going to need to leave. And. And went in the hall. And I mean, really, I felt like God made promises all along. And just. Of course we know this, but for people listening, the promises of God have to align with scripture. They can't be anything outside of scripture. But I. I felt like he really carried us through that. But then it was 49 days of laying in a hospital bed. People all over the world were praying for us. We had already been cast in the TLC show as. As you mentioned. Not that. I mean, of course, that was so secondary, but we just had people, the world, that were praying for them. And I knew I needed to stay connected to God and to Scripture. And I just prayed through the psalm, like, that's. That's all I could do because really, like, pregnancy brain times three, and we're in distress. And I could only get up to go to the bathroom. Y' all can probably tell I'm very hyperactive. Like, it was very difficult to lay in a bed hoping we all live, which really was the reality. And the nurses, I found out, were betting on. Apparently everyone cracks on bedrest, like, in hospital bedrest. Cause, I mean, I didn't leave the room, like, for almost two months. And, Yeah, I mean, it was really. And so apparently they always, like, decide when someone's gonna be at their end. And I Mean, really. God, like, just really helped us through that. It was this really precious time, and we just made the decision. We don't know what's gonna happen. We feel like God has promised it's gonna be okay. But we celebrated every Saturday. So every Saturday, Ryan would come in with either a big gift or a little gift or whatever, and we would celebrate another life. And then the further along we got, we were allotted 10 minutes in a wheelchair. So Ryan. I think you got it. He planned these hospital dates, and he would find interesting places in the hospital because it was Christmas time, and. And then sometimes we would stay, like, five minutes later. It felt like we're in, like, a walk to remember or something. But, like, it really was. It was really neat. He would find different gardens and find different, like, pianists and different things going on. And so it was really special. But we decided just to celebrate until whatever happened was gonna happen. So I was very peaceful. God carried. It was actually, like. It's weird, but it's one of our favorite times of our marriage, like, looking back on it, because we really didn't know what was gonna happen. We had decided ahead of time. We're trusting God. We're, of course, not gonna turn our back on our faith or each other. But, like, that was a decision. And then, okay, because we've made that decision, what are we going to do? So I did lose it one day, and that was God's grace, because something was wrong. And so I was very upset. I was crying. I told God, I don't know what's wrong. Something's wrong. Holy Spirit, pray for us. Went to bed. And that's the last night I had peaceful sleep. I woke up and one of the babies had stopped growing. And so we delivered that day. Wow.

Wow. I mean, that is like, so many miracles wrapped into miracle.

It is.

And I need Ryan to write a book on creative date ideas within a hospital.

Yeah, I mean, really, like, he does not. Not get nearly the credit he needs to get. Oh, actually, okay. In fairness, they did. When we were on the show, the nurses had started calling him St. Ryan. And so there are a few excerpts in the show where it's like, look how great Ryan is. And then, like, I'm in bed just, like, eating cookies like that. Well. And so he stayed in the hospital with me on. On the couch. It wasn't like, a hospital that had, like, some big stuff suite, and he had his own bed. He slept on a couch for 50 days.

That's.

Yeah.

Yeah. Wow.

So you have the babies now. I know they're preemies now.

Did you have.

How long did you guys have to stay after having the babies?

Yeah. So they were in the nicu for about 65 days. Okay. Which is a pretty long time. And then two of them were hospitalized within 24 hours of coming home. Oh, goodness. So, yes.

And they made it through that, though.

They made it through.

Made it through. And I remember you telling me, but because they were so early, you had to be very, you know, insular because you don't want to introduce your babies to unnecessary germs.

Right.

And so that in and of itself. So you've already been in the hospital all this time, then you go home and you kind of have to buckle down. I know that had to be hard, too. How'd you all keep your wits about you?

Yeah, well, I mean, I have pretty thick skin, clearly. Definitely being like my dad's daughter. I'm not unfamiliar with criticism, but I'll just say it this way. We did what the doctors told us to do. Most people don't because it's just too hard. I think that we had a different experience of the hospital bedrest and then the nicu, and everyone doesn't have that. So we, you know, like, I woke up and they were being resuscitated in front of us. So I just had, like, we had a little different. Like, when you say NICU, people's NICU's journeys are different. People's bed rest journeys are different. It's just. And then, you know, just speaking more psychologically, it just depends on, like, how things affect you. And so for us, we were gonna do what the doctors told us to do. This was before COVID And so it was in the middle of flu season and RSV season, and we used to all care about that. People don't kind of roll their eyes now, but it used to be a big deal. So anyway, yeah, we did what they said we needed to stay home through flu season. And then really, they're not sure what issues health wise kids preemies have until about two. Two is when you're thought to be caught up. So we didn't, like, stay inside until they were two. But, I mean, if someone was coughing or sick, we weren't around them. They were hospitalized many times that year, and that was with us doing, like, our absolute best. So it was definitely. We were fine doing whatever we needed to do. But then I think when they were 2 and then Covid hit and then it was more isolation. It was a lot of depending on one another. And Then, you know, I'm pretty sure this is the only time we're doing this. So we also didn't want it to be a bad experience. So we're trying to have good memories, stay thankful, have a good marriage, stay connected to the world somehow. Yeah, it was tricky.

Even the stay connected part, because as public figures and wanting to, you know, protect your children, I know you've. You've been really intentional about, you know, not putting too much out there of your children and. Yes, and it's fascinating to me. I mean, there's so much fascinating. I mean, you. You could just sell the movie rights to your story and it would be Oscar winning. But. But just these last four. Four and a half years of essentially just only having each other. I mean, there are other people in your lives, obviously, but in a very unique way, it's just been you and Ryan and you and Ryan and the kids facing the health challenges together, leaning on each other for support, all those things. What have you guys learned in your faith, in your marriage, in your family, with the unique season you've had to walk through, of living through these challenges and having to do it, like, not totally alone. You got a lot of people love you and pray for you and all that, but we were pretty. You're pretty alone.

It's okay.

You're pretty alone. That's hard. I mean, that is. I just love to hear you talk so about that.

Yeah.

Okay. This is like, with the premise that we had an understanding about psychology. So we already knew our personalities, we already knew our temperaments. We already knew introvert, extrovert. Like, we were very. We had a good language around. I'm very extroverted. I cannot be at home for 100,000 hours a week. Like, I need. Like, so we already have had. I think that's one benefit of being married young and then, you know, being married for so long before having children. So we had good language around that. And I think for us specifically, what was good is I realized we kind of had to sometimes stop psychoanalyzing everything. So even though I could say, well, this is trauma and this is isolation and this is anxiety and this is this. And then we still have the principles of what, like, what are the biblical principles? And so I think that's what we've learned, like, the important balance of, yes, being introspect and knowing your spouse and all of that. But at the same time, like, biblical principles are still there. Like, it's still. There's still the commands, like, you still gotta go to church. You still can't deprive one another. You still have to have self control. You still are supposed to read your Bible and do these things. And so I think that that's the balance we figured out. Cause there would be times where we would. Because we both have the same language of theology and psychology. And so we would kind of have to say, you know what? We're just gonna have to kind of put a pause on the psychological and just look at what does God want us to do.

Right. It's amazing. You are an inspiration, Julie. You and Ryan both. And Ryan, if you're listening, call me. Give me your romance tips because.

Oh, well, I do want to say this. There's an extremely high divorce rate for multiples families. So it's over 50% in the first year. And so that was something like. We have always been very upfront about whatever the challenges are and whatever statistics are. And so I. I had a interesting community of triplet moms, actually. So they. There are different ways that you find each other and online, of course, and it was significant numbers getting divorced. And it was that first year. And like, of course, like, we've already made the decision we are not getting divorced. And so, like, we knew that wasn't. We weren't gonna do that. And, you know, before anyone laughs at that, I know y' all would agree, you can make that choice. Like, you can decide, I am not gonna do this. You gotta pre decide. We're so that's already been a decision that we've made. But knowing that for whatever reason, whatever the stressors are, there's a significant amount of the first year that get divorced, like, that put us really on guard. And then we always ask for the help we need. Like, I mean, we just say, and luckily God put us together. So Ryan likes alone time. I hate it. And he was fine with me going and hanging out with my friends. But it's important, I think, to know before you just, like, dismiss psychology when you're in a situation that statistically is not in your favor, of course. So with special needs or losing a child or whatever it is. So it was important to know that.

Going in, like, you know, both agreeing, okay, we are going through what people before us have said is one of the, like, a really hard thing to face, you know, and. And like, I love you using the terminology be on guard, which I mean, is biblical, to just be aware of what could be, you know, fighting against you, so to speak. Not the babies themselves, but just the. The circumstances.

Because you are.

I mean, having one child is hard enough.

Yeah.

Having one baby, but having three triplets who are also preemie after you're coming off bed rest and then. And medically fragile for a time.

Right.

And breathing. Right. I mean, that's a lot that you're processing. And I love how, you know, it's really like, you know, getting in a huddle, so to speak, like a marriage huddle. And you're like, okay, we're not giving up on this. This is what we're facing. And I think that, you know, listeners could take so much away from that, because maybe you're listening to this, you don't have multiples. Maybe you've not dealt with infertility or miscarriage, but I think that you've probably faced or are facing currently something hard. And I think just being able to look at your spouse and recognize the season you're in as being hard and saying this is really hard, and if we aren't careful, this could really do some damage. But we're not gonna allow that.

Yeah. Can I say something to that? Cause that was something I was. I just started sharing this, not on air, but with friends who just have kind of started talking to me about marriage issues. And. And I don't think where you, like, give permission for people to say this, I think people don't know it. I learned as a therapist, your marriage, when you have young kids is like, absolutely. When people report being, like, least satisfied. But a lot of people don't know that. And so they're, like, shocked. Like, we're not having, like, the best time right now as a couple. Right.

Well.

And, yeah. And, like, people don't know that. And so I started, and I remember researching that, and I told one of my friends, I was like, no good news. It's okay. This doesn't have to be your favorite season, like, in marriage, hopefully, you're not miserable and you're so able to have fun. And we did. We had a lot of fun and everything, but we just had the understanding, like, this is a stressful time. And the other people I've told that to, they don't have multiples. But just having permission not to love every season.

Exactly.

And I thought that that was neat. And then it's. If you stay together through year 10, 10, and 15, the marital satisfaction goes up, which usually goes along with kids moving into different stages, which is fascinating.

I'm so glad you said that, because there's so much truth in that.

And we've seen, like, whatever the struggle is in marriage, most of the time, if Couples will stick it out through that tough season. It gets better. I mean, you still have to work at it to get better.

And then you have the stories, and.

Then you got the stories, and then you think back, and I'm sure you and Ryan have had many moments like. Like, I cannot believe that we've been through what we've been through.

Yeah.

No, we'll stop in the car and be like, hey, hey, there's. There's no crying. Yeah, we'll go. It's getting easier.

High five at each other.

I mean, with every step, it's just beautiful. It's part of the journey, but it makes you stronger. I mean, you guys, man, you are strong.

You are strong.

You're strong people.

Look, they might have called him St. Julian. We're not.

But we are Christians calling you St. Julia.

You know what I mean? I mean, God has made you stronger, you know, through.

Well and practically, like, even just talking about scripture, I mean, says not to complain. So, I mean, like, yeah, we didn't let ourselves complain. I mean, we would say we're gonna give thanks and we're gonna have fun. And, I mean, that doesn't mean we were perfect.

But I always took that scripture more as a suggestion than a candidate.

Yeah. I mean, really looking at it. I mean, we talk about it. It's not a suggestion. Like, we're not supposed to do that. And honestly, they're wonderful and amazing, so it's pretty easy just to absolutely enjoy it. I think the isolation. So whatever situation you're in, like, we were very isolated just. Just because basically it would take, like, two hours to leave somewhere or get somewhere and just practically isolated. So I think being honest about where you are personally and as a couple and then making a plan to survive that.

Exactly. Like, how can we make things better for each other in this season? So right now, you know, you have little ones still at home. Three little ones at home. What kind of things?

Like, what.

What things do you do right now in this season to keep your marriage going strong?

Yeah, we date. We always have a date night. And we started just really even. I said we put psychology a little bit on hold. We're going back to. Okay. How has God gifted me? How has he gifted you? What needs do we have? And then we literally made a plan of how to get our needs met. So I love charts, and I wrote my favorite five basic needs, which wouldn't be under, like, any list in, like, a therapist's office, but it's like, what do I care most about? What does he care most about. And then we made a plan to make it happen.

And so practical.

Yeah.

And I think for a lot of us, just. Just, like, seeing it in writing. I know I'm more of that person than you are, but I do, like, I feel like there's power in writing it down. And then you can monitor and adjust as needed, obviously, based on the season you're in.

But you can measure it. You can say, like. Like, these are the things. And it's not so scary and murky.

It's like, we can do these things well. And in premarital counseling, I remember our. We did it with our youth minister and his wife, and he said, write down what y' all like doing together right now. Cause you're gonna forget. And so we wrote down, like, we've always liked reading together. We've always liked working out. And then my whole family just loves movies. And so, I mean, really, like, it seems funny, but that's, like, really more of a hobby. So if we're not, I mean, that's when we connect. And then, you know, you always have counselors or say, oh, it doesn't count if you're watching tv the way we watch TV does. Like, we're laughing and talking about it. And, like, that's very much something we do together. So anyway, so, yeah, it sounds not spiritual, but we always watch TV together. I love it. We still have our Pray Big Things list that we do with the kids, and then we. We do something active together. So we like playing tennis and we like working out, and we very. It was a benefit being married for so long before having kids, which I know not everyone has that choice or wants to do that, but that was a good thing for us.

Yeah.

And you guys are doing so much, so much. Right. We could talk to you all day, all night, but respect for your time. We'll wrap this up. But in addition to getting the book Pray Big Things, which, guys, if you're not inspired to go get that book at this point, I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

Were you even listening?

Yeah. Were you even listening? This is incredible. So get that book. And also check out, of course, Julie's unapologetic program. But, Julia, where else? And how else can people connect to what you're doing in the season?

I'm just. Typical millennial. So Instagram, Julia Jeffersadler. And then the new website is ptv.org julia awesome.

And we'll definitely put that in the show notes. But, Julia, we just. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us, and I just. I can't wait to hear more stories about what's going on in. In yourall's world.

Well, thank you for having me on. This is awesome.