Sex on Campus

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Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, we have a really interesting episode for you today. We're going to talk about some of the counterfeits we have believed, the lies we believed from our experience on campus. And we're going to talk about maybe some of the things that we need to watch out and be telling our kids to watch out for when it comes to sex on campus and just, you know, trying to avoid those pitfalls for our children, but also dealing with our own, dealing with our own baggage when it comes to this. So. And you definitely want to wait for the question at the end. It's a really good one, one that we can all learn a little something from. But before we get to all of that, Dave is going to share a review with you all today. And thank you guys so much for taking the time to write a review over at Apple Podcasts, because, guys, that is the best way to keep the message going about the Naked Marriage podcast and to help other couples know that they can learn how to have a stronger marriage just by listening to a free podcast. So thank you guys.

And that's why we read these. It's one to affirm and thank the folks who took the time to leave them, but also, like Ashley said, because we want to encourage more reviews, because reviews help others discover what you've already discovered.

Yes.

So Today review, 5 stars from Austin Mann, manager. And it says, truly a great podcast. I don't remember how I found this podcast, but I'm so glad I did. I love listening to episodes and then sharing what I've learned or what I feel with my wife. And it's a great and easy way to start discussions on sometimes difficult topics. I also appreciate Dave and Ashley's openness. My marriage has had similar struggles as theirs, and to hear their stories and advice and candidness on certain topics is refreshing and resourceful. Thank you so much. And thanks to you so much for taking the time to share that and thanks to all of you for listening or watching right now on YouTube. Like Ashley said, we've got really an important topic. We're going to cover some stuff today that we've never talked about before on this podcast. And I think it's going to help maybe shape the way that you talk about sex within your own marriage. So let's dive in. Sex on campus in our new book, the Counterfeit Climax, which is out in less than a month. So if you haven't pre ordered it, go to xomarriage.com or Amazon.

And there's so many perks you guys please. And I mean, it's. You don't want to miss out on these perks.

Yeah, the preorder perks that you preorder after it's out. So you got to get it early.

Yes.

And go to counterfeitclimax.com, the book's website, and you can find out all about what you get when you pre order. And there's a lot to it. You know, you get a ton more than we can list here. But go to that website and you will, you'll see. One of the things we discuss in the book, we discuss a lot in it is a little section called Sex on Campus. And you might be thinking, what does that have to do with, with marriage? The reason why we wanted to talk about sex on campus, couple reasons. Number one, we found that a lot of the sexual baggage people tend to accumulate very often that is tied to their own college years. It's just kind of a time when people tend to make some of those mistakes that they later regret sexually. But also, and perhaps even more importantly, because understanding kind of what, what's being taught culturally on college campuses, university campuses, and how it's shaping the broader conversation about sex, it's having a huge impact on the way we see sex, the way certainly our children are seeing sex, the way that culture is talking about sex. It's these conversations that happen on campus. In the book. I share an experience when I was in grad school at the University of Kentucky.

Go wild cats.

Go big Blue. And I had a professor there, real interesting guy named Dr. Alan DeSantis, not sure if he's still there or not, but really a bright, interesting dude. And he was at the time doing a research project that later became a book called I think like Inside Greek you. And it was all about sex within the fraternity and sorority systems. And he shared a lot about what his research found of how these young adults were really viewing their ideas around sex. It was specific to Greek life, fraternities and sororities. But really there was a lot of broader application to sort of the sexual culture and sexual mindset that people were having on campus and how that was extending not only on University of Kentucky, but campuses all over the country. And it was really fascinating. And it was also really disturbing to see some of what, you know, kids, young adults were believing was normal sexual behavior. And it was more than just kind of the hookup culture and things that you might expect of, you know, casual sex and all that. But it was. It was much deeper than that. It was. It was, you know, kind of sex is power of young women feeling like they had to be aggressive with their sexuality to kind of have power in the relationships. It was men kind of playing these games to try to get, you know, just coerce young women into. Into. Into doing things that maybe they had not been comfortable with. And it was really. We talk in a lot more detail in the book, and I cite a lot of Dr. DeSantis research in that particular section. But it was eye opening to me to just see how when we take our minds and our eyes off of God's design for sex, which is the only design that really works, then there's this void left where we can just start doing whatever feels right in our own eyes. There's a part in the Bible, the Book of Judges, where there were kind of. It was sort of a free for all time in Israel's history. And the Bible said everyone did what was right in their own eyes. And what happened with that is it led to complete chaos. And we're in a time now where, from college campuses as kind of an epicenter all across our whole culture, when it comes to sex, everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes without any higher truth that they're anchoring it to. And it's creating a lot of chaos and certainly a lot of baggage.

Yeah. You know, as Dave was talking about, you know, guys kind of. I don't know if the guy maybe in and of himself or by himself would necessarily want to do this. Maybe he would. I don't know. But I do think that there, you know, there's guys that get together and they talk about their sexual conquest, so to speak, in certain circles, not all guys. I'm not saying, like a blanket statement, and then coerce girls to do certain things. And I. I was just instantly brought back to a conversation I had with a friend of mine during college. And she was a virgin, hadn't really dated, really. I barely even kissed A guy. I don't even know if she had kissed a guy. And, you know, just kind of. Not because she didn't have options. It's just she hadn't. She was. You know, it was important to her. And she gets to college, and it's just a lot, you know, and people. I think sometimes you get to college and your eyes are open, you're on your own for. For the first time, and you have all these feelings going on, you know, and you're like, oh, my gosh. And I remember she shared with me that there was this guy that was kind of known to be a big man on campus, held himself really confidently, had a lot of girls putting it out there that they'd like to be with him, and just had. You know, he had a lot of influence on campus. And I remember she really had her eyes on him. And they were at a party one night, and he noticed her. And this is a girl who, you know, she had always been shy, and she, I think, had had a little something to drink, and so it loosened her up a little bit. And so she. You know, she's drinking for the first time, she's being noticed for the first time, and she ends up essentially talking to this guy, and she's thinking, oh, my gosh, he notices me. He wants to be with me. And before you know it, they end up in his dorm room, and she has sex for the first time with this guy, and she ends up. I mean, he was really pressuring her, and they end up doing it, and then he basically is like, okay, well, I'll see you around campus. And basically is like, go on. You know, I've had my conquest. And she was just crushed. I mean, and I remember she came to my dorm room and just sobbing. And it broke my heart. Like, it just broke my heart for her because she had. You know, she just didn't think it was gonna go there. And I think that's a story for a lot of people. And, you know, I hope this guy has changed his ways, but I think he did run among. He was an athlete, and he. And I'm not saying this is always so. Please don't misunderstand me. This isn't always the case. But I do think that when you have a lot of influence, you have muscles, you have people eyes on you. And at the time, our school was very successful, so it was very known, like, if you're part of this program, go you. You know, and. And so I think that it was a breeding ground for those kind of behaviors. He wasn't the only one in his group. And you know, but that doesn't make it right. But I think in his mind, locker room. It's just that locker room we talk.

About in the book.

We do. But it crushed you guys. It was. I saw my friend, I mean she really after that went through pretty much a depression. At the time, I didn't recognize it. I didn't know and I hadn't gone through my own at the time. But like she went through a depression and it really kind of came back. And again you could say, well, was it shame that she was kind of allowing to enter her life because she had lost her virginity? Was it, you know, was she steeped in purity culture? Maybe, maybe. But I think that she was coerced and she gave in and she just.

That to be your very first, her first experience and then to feel so tossed aside and disposable to somebody.

And then she had to see this guy, like we went to a small school. She had to see this guy walking around.

And that. It does create so much hurt. And that's, that's one of one of the scenarios. Yeah, one of the scenarios. Another is, you know, a lot of times, and it's not always the guys doing the pressuring. You know, we're not trying to create scenarios here where it's like, no, always the guys doing the pressuring. But you know, part of even what that research I mentioned earlier talked about was, you know, how there could be a. There was a culture, at least within this research of guys pressuring girls to do more than they wanted to do.

Right.

Even if those girls were virgins and wanted to remain virgins. But a guy like kind of coercing and convincing her that we could do all these other things, all these sexual acts.

Yeah.

You know, pressuring, oral sex, even anal sex, and then saying, but you can do all these things and still be a virgin. And I praise her for her technical virginity, but then at the same time praise her for meeting these kind of self focus. It's extremely common sexual needs. It's not based on love, it's not based on even having a relationship, but it's just a guy wanting to have an orgasm or a fantasy this young woman's a part of and then making her feel like, or a culture as a whole, making her feel like it's her job to help just meet this need of a guy completely void of commitment, completely void of any of what God's original design for marriage is. And then that creates a lot of baggage and brokenness. And even it can kind of create resentment around sex even later on when that young woman is married and feels like, am I just here to kind of help facilitate an orgasm for my husband? Which, of course, there's so much more to it than that. God created sex to be mutually pleasurable for man and a woman. And if it's all just about one person, then that's way out of bounds. That's something else we talk about. But again, regardless of what your personal experience was in college, this isn't just about. Let's talk through all of our college regrets or baggage we have from college. Really. This is a broader conversation of just understanding where our counterfeit mindsets come from. And there are a lot of counterfeit messages related to sex. And if you rewind the clock, a lot of the counterfeit messages in culture, in our own lives and our own experiences, and certainly what's happening now, it's kind of happening on campus. And even if you're years removed from that, even if you don't have kids that are going to be in college soon, like we do, where this is extra important to us right now because we've got a junior in high school, a freshman in high school, we've got kids that are going to be there soon. And we're trying to equip them now with the right messages about sex so that when they are exposed to all these counterfeit messages, they'll know the truth.

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I just think these are important conversations to have.

You know, they really are. I know some other things that we've kind of seen in our research and heard even from friends. You know, again, because we have kids that are on the brink of college. So we have a lot of Friends who are already there. And I know that. And it's always, you know, there are trends there, there are things that are kind of never change, you know, when it comes to this kind of stuff. But there's also new things because we have new technology. You know, I think back in the day I'd always heard that maybe in fraternities or just guys among campus would pass around like an actual porn, you know, VHS or dvd. And like nowadays I think they just like text like, hey, have you watched such and such porn? You know, or I mean they act like it's just not a big deal. And I know we talk a lot. I mean, I'm not even going to belabor this point. We have tons of, of whole books on this, but we also have whole episodes on this about porn and the damage that it does. But it's just, you know, I think on, in, on college campuses, pornhub is just like, well, yeah, you have a membership to that Netflix. Like it's your Netflix for your sexual needs. Like it literally. And, and this is even research has shown even among Christian men and even a lot of women, like there's a lot of women. I will never forget talking to a friend of mine years ago and, and she said, you know, she got into porn simply by not knowing what to do. Like, she just said I innocently, like.

Was looking for instructions.

My friends were talking about parts and what they'd done. I did not even know how my body worked. And I was embarrassed. And she said, I didn't say anything at the time, but she said I went and I watched porn just to learn how to do stuff. And I think that that's what happens is we. And again we introduce this counterfeit into our life not even knowing what we're doing. Like she said, I just, I literally didn't know the damage I was causing myself. And she said, and then there was that shame attached to it later on. And she's since come through that. But it's just, you know, I think we knowing, you know, knowledge is power, we hear that all the time. But it really is. I mean, just really knowing kind of what we're facing or what our kids can face, that is powerful. But I think also for us who are already married, maybe you've been married for years, to be able to go back and recognize, recognize, like, where did that lie begin? Where did that counterfeit begin? Is so powerful. You know, I'm actually in a master's program for biblical counseling right now, and I'm actually studying this in My methodology of Biblical counseling class. And there's such power in being able to recognize where did the lie begin so that you can actually replace it with God's truth. It's so powerful to do that. And there's exercises you can do where you do go back and think, where did I hear this? And, and why, you know, what, what caused me to believe this lie? And then what really is God's truth and then replacing it? And this is biblical. I mean, we talk about it all the time on here. It's, you know, renewing it. God wants us to renew our mind, okay? And in him we are new creations. And so that means that we have to really, first of all recognize the lie, recognize the counterfeit, but then also ask God, say, God, help me to know your truth, help me to replace it with your truth. And a lot of times it takes a counselor to walk through this with you, you know, and I would just suggest, you know, go to your pastor and say, like, would you recommend a biblical counselor in my area to me? Because I really have these hang ups from my past. And you don't even have to get specific. I mean, maybe you do, maybe your past, your pastor is a counselor. Sometimes they are. But I think it's really important to go and have someone walk through this with you. And it is so, it's, it's just so freeing. I think people who've walked through this process, it's very freeing because sometimes we are so just steeped in counterfeits and in lies that we don't even know what we're missing.

Like, exactly.

And I think with, with the sex on campus, it's a culture that, that we've, you know, we become just kind of brainwashed to accept as normal. And then we carry these things into marriage and, and it really does affect us even in like a, a subconscious level sometimes. And so that's why we do hope that when you listen to this, you really think about it. Like really think about it, like, is there something that a lie I've been believing? Or you know, do I avoid certain sexual acts with my partner just because I have this past and somebody used me for that?

And it's triggering, it's triggering, right, this memory.

And have I ever told my spouse about it?

You have to be honest about this stuff. And that's why we have these conversations and why we point back to the truth of scripture and why we wrote this book is we just want to help the blinders come off of your eyes so you can see kind of what Those blind spots have been of, like, what am I allowing to hold me back? What are those counterfeit messages that I've believed? And how do I get to the root of healing in it? And how do I, you know, if I'm raising kids, like, equip them for all of that false mindset that they're going to most likely encounter on a university campus, which is kind of a perfect storm. You've got young men who are at the peak their whole life of their sex drive and testosterone levels will probably never be higher in their whole life than right then. Combined with a culture that's saying, you've got to try and do all these different things. And the prevalence of porn, which says, you've got to watch this so you know what you're into, but what porn does. And we won't again, belabor this point, but part of what it does is it turns sex into a commodity that's based only on your individual needs and preferences, where you start just seeing other people as just a means to meet that end or to meet that fantasy and love and commitment. And all of that is completely separate from it. And it is cheapening sex in the name of just like, I'm just exploring what I'm into. And it's sabotaging yourself. It's absolutely sabotaging yourself. And so many of us have sex, some baggage related to that. So many have kids that are going off to school that we're trying to help protect them from falling into some of that damage. But it's important to know what's going on there. And again, part of what we do on this podcast is we just try to be a safe place to have these conversations, because the worst thing we can do is put our heads in the sand and pretend like issues aren't there, or to live with these issues in our own lives or baggage or whatever else and just never deal with it. Never really have a great sex life and just convince ourselves that that's the way it's going to be or the way it has to be when it doesn't. If we'll have the courage to really get to the root of where this baggage came from, what counterfeit messages we've believed, and talk through it. You'll be amazed at how much more intimacy. And I don't just mean intimacy as a code word for sex. I mean intimacy as connection on every level you can experience with your spouse.

Because that's really the goal. We do want pleasurable sex lives, obviously. I mean, we all do, right? We're human beings, we would love to experience that, but really, when it comes to married sex, which is the point of sex, right. It's really about connection. It's about this deep connection and trust that you have with each other. And I do think that these things that we maybe have learned through our time on campus, and maybe even if you didn't go to college, I still still think you could experience a lot of these things just in the clubbing scene or whatever. I mean, it, you know, being a young working person, the same rules apply. I don't think it's just on campus, but I think that it's just that. That breeding ground for using each other. And, like, I just want to feel something. I think that a lot of us that's. That's kind of what if we have that baggage? That's how we fell into it, is like, I just want to feel something. I want to be adored for a night. I've heard women say that before. I've heard them say, I'm not looking for forever. I just want to be adored for a night. You know, And I remember one of my friends going through that and just feeling like, I just want to be adored. And then later on, her hoping that that one night of adoration would lead to, like, secret, like, deep in her heart, she wanted forever. She wanted. And every time I remember just breaking her heart, breaking her heart, breaking her heart. And she, you know, talking to her later, she's like, gosh, I just wish I wasn't so lost in that, you know? But, you know, the good news is, and I want to say this before we get into our Q and A for today is, guys, we. We all have a past. We all have baggage. We all have things that. That we regret or that we wish had gone differently. And. And God is bigger than it all. I just want you all to know that you're not doomed. You're not damaged goods. Your spouse is not damaged goods. But that doesn't mean that you don't feel hurt. And God wants us to have freedom and healing and. And so the reason we're talking about this isn't to shame anybody or to scare anybody. If you have children, you know, that are heading off to college or in college right now, it's really just to have that knowledge so that you can choose to walk in freedom. And it's a choice, and it's right there for the taking, right from God when we choose to be his follower and say, like, lord, I give my life to you. He gives us that freedom. But we have to, you know, it takes practice of us renewing our mind and saying, God, enter in this, like, holy Spirit, free me from this baggage that I feel. It takes us being intentional about that, but it's always right there for the taking. And so, you know, I think that sometimes we just expect it to be a one moment thing, but really, you know, Satan loves to just come in between a husband and wife and to beat us up and to make us feel like we're damaged. And so it might take, you know, it's going to take a while sometimes to really start believing those truths and resisting the lies. But you can walk in freedom and. And I'm proof of that and Dave's proof of that. And we've walked that road and we still will continue to monitor and adjust and make sure that we're living in freedom and not living in bondage. Because I think that, again, we're in a broken world, that we're getting mixed messages even as married people all the time. I think, you know, this kind of sex on campus mentality is what leads a lot of people to become disillusioned and to look outside their marriage because they want to feel something again. They just want to feel something. I haven't felt something with my spouse in forever. I haven't felt adored in forever or adored someone in forever. You know, so we, we have to resist those lies and really come to the Lord, be honest, and then go to our spouse and say, I am flailing here. Like, I. I haven't done right by you. I've let my mind wander. I've started thinking about maybe past relationships. I've started doubting our, our relationship. We need help. Like, I, I really feel like this is a crisis moment and I don't want, I don't want us to get suffocated by the rubble kind of falling on us. I want to get help and I want to be honest with you. And I'm telling you, I know this is scary, just me talking this way, but that's where freedom is, guys. That's where freedom is, man.

That's good. That is good. Those few moments of what Ashley just shared might be some of the most important advice you've heard in your life. And so apply that. Apply what she said if you find yourself in a place like what she described, because that could be the difference in your marriage. All right, guys, it is time to transition into Q and A. Thank you for those who send in questions. By the way, we love your questions, whether you send it to us at Dave and Ashley Willis on Instagram or you find us on Facebook or you write to the nakedmarriagepodcast.com which is where this one came from. Yes. And it says, is reading and responding to a text for work. Okay. When foreplay and arousal have already begun, does it show a lack of priority set on the relationship and a lack of importance placed on intimacy?

And I think they mean this is like when they're in the moment with their spouse, right? Like they're messing around.

Yeah, you're getting there.

Then all of a sudden it's like, bing, buzz.

Or just one thing.

That's a great. We've never had this question, but, you guys, I actually, I. I got a message not too long ago, very similar message. So I'm really excited we're talking about this.

Well, go ahead, Go ahead.

You. Well, and you guys, obviously this. This does show a lack of priority set on the relationship. I would say this person, clearly, it's a blind spot. Maybe they have a job that they feel like if they don't answer that text right away or that call right away, they're gonna lose their job. But I would say we have to put boundaries in place. You know, I've heard of couples maybe saying, like, you know, when I come home, I'm gonna have dinner with the family, and then I'm gonna have one hour where I answer my emails or get my texts, and then I'm shutting it off and I'm gonna let my colleagues know because, you know, from 8:00am on, I'm just, I'm not going to answer it till the next day. And I think that's so healthy because then you can have those moments where you're making out and you're, you know, having a great night together and not have to be interrupted. Because what it says to your spouse when there's a buzz on the phone and they all, you know, you're like, hot and heavy and there's a buzz on the phone. It literally is like, I don't care about you. I'm excited about the distraction that I just got. Like, it really sends that message. And I bet this. This spouse is not thinking that.

No, it probably is totally a blind spot.

And they're thinking, you want me to keep my job, don't you? So you're not going to care. Just go kind of keep yourself riled up over there. And, like, I'm going to come back in a minute. Like, I'm sure that's what this person's thinking. But you guys, stop doing it. Stop doing it. It's rude and it definitely kills the mood. It's literally like if there's a flame in a candle and you just went like this and took the oxygen out, that's what you're doing.

Boom. Yeah. Once, once you start moving the locomotive.

In the direction, keep that train going.

Keep the train going. Keep throwing coal on that fire, not water on that fire. So. But also have grace, because a lot of times, like Ashley said, this is a blind spot.

I think it probably is.

We're just in a digital world. We're always connected. My phones, our phones are sitting right here, right now. And there's something instinctive in us that when we hear that ding, like our mind tells us, oh, I've got to deal with that. And so I would say just put.

It in airplane mode.

Yeah. Keep the phone out of the bedroom.

Yeah, don't put it even in the bedroom.

I mean, just do those things to kind of just remove, remove the distraction so that you guys can focus on each other. Great question, though.

Yes.

And yeah, turn those phones off and turn each other on.

Oh, there you go.

All right. Well, guys, thanks so much for listening. We appreciate you so much. Check out the Counterfeit Climax, the new book. You can get all the pre order perks for it@counterfeitclimax.com and if you would like to join us for one of the live events coming up, we've got a bunch of them starting next month and you can find those@xomarriage.com we hope to see you there. God bless.