Start Where You Are

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we Undress the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we have a special treat for you.

Today.

We have a bonus episode with our amazing friends, Rashawn and Denise Copeland.

Yeah, Rashawn and Denise are dear friends and one of the most inspiring young couples on the planet. Like, I just, I love these two. They're gonna share a lot of different things. They're gonna share about life and ministry and the busy season of raising young children. They've got two young kids and are pregnant with the third. They're gonna talk about Rashawn's new book, which is a powerful book called Start where youe Are. And you're gonna love their story. You're gonna. By the end of this episode, you're gonna love them as much as we do. So let's dive into today's conversation. Well, hey, Naked Marriage podcast listeners. I am so excited about today's guest. As I said in the intro, you heard all about them. But just to like, build on that for a second, we love Rashawn and Denise Copeland. They are some of the most amazing, authentic, world changing young leaders on the planet. And they're joining us today and we just are so excited.

We are welcome, you all.

Dave. Hey, Ashley.

I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm so honored to be on this podcast and we really look up to you guys. One day, we want our marriage to look like yours.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

You two inspire me. You're just two of the most encouraging people that we know. I talked a lot about you in the intro, but just give us a snapshot of what your life looks like right now because you're keeping your marriage strong in the midst of writing books and doing ministry and raising two beautiful children who could be like child models and, you know, your whole family.

Yeah, your whole family.

Yeah.

You guys just do.

You do so much. And so just unpack what life looks like right now because you guys are doing an awful Lot.

Yeah, it's totally busy. I can say that for sure. So I think that's what I would say, especially with my book coming out soon and Denise writing. But more important than that, trying to disciple these children, you know, God has truly entrusted us with these phenomenal children, that we either have the power to bless them or even curse them. And I take that, you know, with a grain of salt, like, so. I'm enjoying it, though. It's exciting, exciting times. You know, Dave and Ash.

Yeah. I would say it is super busy. And we do have another baby on the way, so.

Oh, congratulations.

Thank you. So we did. So right now I'm on my second trimester, just now entering. So in the beginning, having to go through the morning sickness all over again, Rashawn working on a book, me trying to keep up with, making sure there's food at the table, laundry taking care of myself, me working on the book. It's super busy. And I don't know how I even do it half of the time, but just the grace of God. And at one point, we did need help from a nanny, so we got a lot of help from that. So that was a blessing to have her for a season. We. We don't have her anymore. But, yeah, she was amazing.

That was a clutch. Like, if you don't have a nanny out there, guys, go grab one. They're game changers.

Send her to our house, too, while you're out there.

I know, I know.

We could use the backup.

And you guys are so. You're so wise to do that. You know, just kind of camping out on this thing. I remember years ago when we had, you know, our three older boys, and then I think that Chatham was a baby, our fourth. And I was actually talking to Shanti Feldhahn. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Shaunti Feldheim, but she's an author friend of ours, and she's been in ministry for many years, and she's about 10 years ahead of us in raising kids and things like that. And we had her over at our house for something. I can't even remember what we were doing. But I don't know. I guess she could sense that I was a little stressed out. And she just sat down with me and she was like, ashley, what's going on? Just tell me how family life is. Tell me how life is. I know you guys have all these kids and Chatham's a baby, and you're trying to do ministry and things like that. And I was like, well, I said, you know, we just. We're really having a hard time, you know, figuring out the whole, like, if we need a nanny. And we really would love to have, like, a consistent, you know, person that we can lean on, that we know is, you know, not only just good at taking care of our kids, but would truly love our kids. And she took that moment, she prayed with me, and she said, listen, I don't think this is by accident. Like, I'm gonna join you. And you and Dave need to every day pray that God will bring you this person, this nanny that you will need in a season. Like you said, sometimes it's for a season, sometimes it's for. And sure enough, he brought that person to our minds. We talked to her. She has been a gift for how many years? I mean, well, for Chatham's whole life. You know, off and on, when we travel for work, she's amazing.

Mostly just with the travel, but having somebody that we can lean on, that's like, part of the family has been a gift.

And she came several times a week when I was working, too, and so she would come. So I think it's no accident that you mentioned that, but it's so true. I think so many times we make excuses, and we're like, oh, no, we don't need that. But what happens is we end up being squeezed and stretched to the point where we're being nasty to each other, and we feel like we can't do anything. And then even those, you know, our kids are like, man, what's going on with mom or what's going on with dad? When really sometimes we just need to reach out and ask for help. And maybe it's not a nanny for those listeners, you know, maybe it's something else, some other thing that would help you all in your daily life. And I think, you know, we need to just stop making excuses and do our best to get the help that we need. And so thank you all for mentioning that.

Yeah, absolutely. And we don't have any family, like, locally, so doing that was such a blessing. And Rashawn's back. He had problems. Yeah, like, for a few. I mean, it was just three months. It was just a season of humility. Like, the Lord really humbling us to, like, you know, that it's okay to reach out for help if you need it. And a learning lesson for us, like, while I was going through, it was both health. Health issues, you know, his back, my morning sickness, the kids. And it's just having a nanny was just a blessing. So we learned A lot in that season.

Good. That's awesome.

That's so good. Yeah. Hey, to kind of, like, rewind a little bit. I want to jump back to, like, what you guys got going on now and talk about the book and how you guys support each other during busy seasons and all that. But I want to rewind a little bit because I've never heard the story of how you two got together in the first place. Like, I want to hear the love story. So I know a lot of, like, Rashaun, your testimony, which is just powerful. Like, you know, you shared a lot about you were far from God in some of your younger years, and then you shared about your very brave military service, which we're all thankful for, and then how God has really transformed your life and made you just one of my favorite human beings on earth. But, Denise, I don't know much about your background, and I don't know anything about how you two got together. Cause where did this epic love story start? That's what I want to know. So give us kind of the nutshell version of that. I'm sure you'll probably be able to sell the TV rights or movie rights to it someday and figure out who's going to play you two on the big screen. But just give us a little bit of that, and then. And then we'll jump back to modern day.

Love it. Love it. Dave, man, thanks so much for allowing us to have the ground to share, because we love sharing our story. But I'll start it off and I'll have wife take it over at some point. But it was right after I came to Christ. Probably a year after that, I was back in Oklahoma City from la, and I was just in love with the Lord, just trying to know him more, growing him more, discover my purpose and make a difference. And along the way, you know, I started doing these Snapchat sermons where I would go in there and just preach what I was learning and share my experiences. And there was one sermon, quote, unquote, that I was doing when I was on military training in Minneapolis, where this pretty Puerto Rican cutie. Come on now. Came up on my messenger, and we just started talking a little bit, and I think she wanted to know a little bit about what I was sharing that day. And we end up. One thing led to another, and then we said, hey, I want your testimony. She said, I want yours. And then we started talking on the phone and. And then. Babe, you take it from here.

Okay, so you're ready for this part. So, Rashawn, y' all not gonna believe this, but I was at work and my phone started to ringing and it was Rashawn calling me. So I pick it up and it's the first time ever that we're on the phone and, you know, he asks me, hey, how are you? I'm like this and that. And then next thing you know, he's asking me, so do you like chocolate brothers?

It was totally bad. People crack up every time they hear it.

But I cannot believe what this man just asked me over the phone. And, you know, I had just came to Christ and I just got out of a relationship and I was me and Jesus. Me and Jesus. And I didn't want anything to come in between that. And when I heard that, I was like, here comes another guy trying to get in between my relationship with Jesus. And it was just such a turn off for a little bit.

I was around military guys. I was the babe in Christ. Come on now.

Like, I never thought about that. A chocolate brother. Like, I never got anything like that. But yeah, so we like stopped talking for six months and nothing, no hard feelings or anything, which is. We didn't feel that connection right there. And I just kept growing in my walk with Jesus and he did as well. And we connected on Facebook. He. He posted a status and Denise went over there and commented and we just. He commented back and we just felt that connection and we started talking again. And he went to Florida to visit my family, meet them, and I went to Oklahoma, meet his family. And then he flew back to Florida. And next thing you know, I packed myself in my car and we just drove all the way to Oklahoma. That was a long drive.

Yeah.

And then we lived together for a little bit and then we got engaged.

Yeah. And we're totally not endorsing or condoning, you know, marriage before or, you know, living together before marriage. But thankfully we have brothers and sisters who would speak the truth and love to us. And yeah, they help lead us out of that.

But yeah, yeah, we were engaged for one week and then we got married. And we just been learning about each other throughout the marriage. We've been married for four years and it's been a journey. So, yeah, we have babies after the year.

Yeah, I love it how, how God brought you to each other right in the midst of you seeking Jesus, like both of you seeking Jesus. And pretty early, pretty early in that, you know, journey. And then so a lot of your marriage has been even both of you, collectively and individually, you know, getting to know the Lord more. So how has that Been like, what's that been like?

You know, it's been. There's been times where it's frustrating, but then there's times where, okay, we're in this together. Like, I'm learning, You're learning. We didn't grow up in a Christian home. We didn't see this play out before our eyes while we were growing up. So it's really just giving ourselves grace and just learning really, as the Holy Spirit lead us on. Okay. Like, this is my first time, you know, raising a family or being a godly wife or being a godly mother, having Christ in our home, raising our children, you know, in the ways of the Lord and it just. Really. Just giving ourselves grace because I. We can both be hard on ourselves and that we have counselors, like mentors that help us, like, you know, lead the way and how to raise our family and deal with one another. Like in our marriage, it's been a game changer.

Matter of fact, our best friends here in Oklahoma City are our marriage counselor. But also, he's just that example, and she's that example for. So they've modeled what it looks like to have a thriving marriage that's, yeah, built on a rock. You know, like you guys from y', all, like our digital disciples.

Going back to the Word to like, help us a lot. Whenever we don't know what is it that we're feeling now or what to do, we go to the Word and we find different pastors like you guys that, you know, speak on godly marriage and Christ centered families and help us get back to the Word. It's always, you have to go back to the Word, you know, that's a foundation. That's the right way to do life and you can never go wrong with the word of God. So, yes, that's so true.

And you guys are just so authentic. I feel like that's why so many people are drawn to you. I mean, I was just instantly drawn to you and we met several years ago and just your hunger to grow more in your faith and your hunger and your authenticity to just chase after Jesus and connect with other people on that journey and encourage other people and to be just really honest about what you're learning and how you're growing, but also honest about mistakes too. And that resonates with people. And I think that's part of why God's blessed you guys with such a huge platform. I mean, if you guys look up Rashawn and Denise on social media and their feeds are just full of such wisdom and Encouragement. And it makes a difference to me, like, when I see what you post and what you guys share, and it encourages me. I know you guys say you're young in your faith and you're learning from others, but, I mean, I know that I've got some gray hair, but I've learned a lot from the two of you and really just look good, bro. Stop.

He is right. He is.

Well, you know, Ashley had me using some just for men for a while. So, like, it's $8 on Amazon. I dyed my hair, but all the gray's coming back, which I kind of like. I kind of like a little bit.

Of salt and pepper.

That's right. Salt and pepper. She can't get enough of the salt and pepper.

Hey, welcome into Walgreens.

Hi there. Hey.

All right, hon, I'll grab the gift wrap cards and oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.

Great.

And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drops?

This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.

I'm fine, honey.

Well, just in case. You know what they say, Tis the season.

This is help staying healthy through the holidays. Walgreens.

Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this. That's why Columbia engineered everything we make for anything nature can throw at you, Columbia engineered for whatever.

But I just wanted to affirm you two and what you're doing. Seeing you grow in your faith, seeing you inspire others to grow in their faith, and just seeing how God is blessing your family and your ministry as you create a completely new family legacy from what either of you experienced yourselves. You know, I know I'm sure you guys love your families, but you say you didn't grow up in Christ centered homes. And so you've got to forge that as a brand new direction and as a brand new legacy. And you're doing that. And I think generations to come, your children, your grandchildren, all the way down, are just going to have this blessing because of the decisions that you two have made. And it just encourages and inspires me. So I want to talk more about that. But first I want to make sure that we talk specifically Rushon about your book because it's just come out, start where you are. And I had the privilege of kind of reading an early copy. This message is so, so important. So just tell us a little bit about why you wrote it, how you got Manny Pacquiao to do a forward. Cause I need to get in on that and just what the message of this book is. Cause it's one that I truly believe could be life changing for those who read it.

And Dave, thank you. I want to say thank you first and foremost. One, I don't know if you knew, but not this book. But the Seven laws of Love was the very first book I picked up and actually bought at Barnes and Noble as a Christian.

Wow.

So I appreciate you for really helping me grow in wisdom, how to love well, and all that. So thank you so much, bro. Yeah. And outside that, I wanted to tell you, this book that I wrote, start where you are, was really birthed out of a place of. I was so tired of even the old Rashawn and what I used to process through. There were times where I would feel like I had to be perfect to go to God. Like, a lot of. Like, even as a parent, I feel this pressure to be perfect all the time and uphold this sort of perfect dad, perfect husband all the time. And I realized that it's not my weight to carry all the time. And I need to be led as God leads me in these things. So I really felt like this message, start where you are, is for those people who feel far and broken and need help. And this is exactly. You're exactly who Christ came for. You don't have to have it all together. And, you know, he didn't come for the perfect version of you, but are who you pretend to be, but who you actually are, which is someone who needs them, you know? So that's my hope for start where you are.

And the way you unpack that with stories, with your testimony, with, you know, inspiring scriptures, the way it's all put together is really masterful. And I think that for those who are watching, wherever you are right now in your marriage, in your faith, you might feel like things are broken or I've messed up too bad, or, you know, there's not hope for me, and things are never gonna be the way that I pictured or I wanted. God has a beautiful plan for your life, and you can start right where you are in your marriage, in your faith, in all parts of your life. And, you know, this book that Rashaun's written, I think it could really, really help you take those next steps in your walk with Christ, your next steps toward healing in your marriage, your next steps in just personal growth. And I'm just. Yeah. I'm just so proud of both of you and everything you're doing. Denise, what are you working on? He said you're working on something. Yes.

Yes. So I just finished writing my book Set apart Stock Comparing own your giftedness and rest in Jesus. So it's all about, you know, being set apart and worry. And it's based off the story of Martha and Mary and just using your giftings and kind of not shaming Martha or Mary, but knowing that God blessed both of them with a unique gift. Martha had a gift of hospitality. Mary had a gift of just being still and just embracing. I think we can be so hard as women to just shame ourselves because we're using our gifting and we're using it from a place of, like, anxiety and not from a place of rest. So really just learning how to use our giftings from a place of rest, abiding in Christ and not out of anxiety or fear comparison, which was what's driving Martha to serve the way that she was. She was anxious, which. That's what Jesus says. But yes, it's all around that story, and I'm excited for it. I really love how it turned out, and I think it's going to bless a lot of ladies.

Oh, I'm so excited. When is that supposed to come out?

It comes out 2021 fall, I believe. Yeah. So it's still some time, but I.

Can'T wait to read it. I love that.

Yeah, we have to have you back on. Back on for that. That sounds great. I'm just so excited about what God's doing in your lives.

Maybe Ashley can endorse it too.

Yes.

Seriously, I would love to. I would love to send it on. Seriously.

Sweet. I'm really excited for the book. It's a different perspective. It's like a fresh perspective on these sisters. And I feel like I can be a little bit of Mary, a little bit of Martha at times, and, you know, it's gonna be nice.

It sounds awesome. And you're so right, I think. So many times it's like we were like, I'm either like Mary or I'm either like Martha, but for a lot of us, like, we go through seasons where we could be either one, you know, so. And maybe different parts of our life, we kind of go to that. So I can't wait to read it. Yes. That's awesome.

Such an important message, guys, before we wrap up with you, just to kind of like, bring it back to marriage, since on every podcast, we try to leave listeners with some very, very just specific, practical tips that they can apply to their own marriage. And I want each of you to share one piece of marriage advice specifically for couples who are in a similar season of life to the two of you. Like they have young children. The busyness of just trying to keep all those plates spinning between work and ministry and kids and financial pressure and just all of the many, many different things that so many couples face in those beautiful but sometimes chaotic early years of marriage. As you're building a foundation for the rest of your lives together and you guys are just. You're doing it right, and there's so much that we could all learn for you. But I think specifically couples who are in that same season of life who just feel overwhelmed and feel like, oh, my gosh, they're doing all this stuff and writing books, too. I can't even feel like I can get through a day and take a shower. I don't know how to. And what would be just some encouragement and advice for couples who are just feeling overwhelmed and wanting to. Wanting to start where they are and take a step in the right direction.

Love that. You want to start? You want me to start? Okay. Well, I would say one of the greatest things we've done is really set up an environment where it's okay to fail. We don't want to stay there all the time, but it's okay to fail and talk about it. So we're modeling to the kids that, hey, you have to be this perfect person all the time. And that they can see that even through our lives. Like, we make mistakes, but we want to always find a way to point them back to wholeness in Christ. Like, back to, you know, the thing that will sustain them and satisfy them and fulfill them.

I would say for me, don't be afraid to ask for help, to reach out, because I know for me, you know, super moms, super parents, like, you want to take control of everything. You got it all. You know, this is what you were created to do. And so we can sometimes let kind of pride get in the way of saying, I don't need help. I can do it. But when in reality, like, this is, like, an opportunity that God is extending for you to reach out for help because you need other people in your life. It's not just, you know, just us, too. It takes a lot to build a.

Marriage and a family.

And I think not being afraid of reaching for help is really good if that's a close friend or family or, hey, maybe test some waters like we did and just find someone that we didn't know. But it was in the faith, you know, a beautiful woman of God. She was amazing. She was heaven's end. I really said she was amazing. And I'm just so grateful for her and just the rest that she brought to us. Cause we felt refreshed after she took care of the boy so that I could focus on catching up on everything else.

Our quickie life went up too.

Now I'm just sitting there. Hey, nothing wrong with a quickie. I mean. Yes, sometimes.

No, we talk about. Yeah, there's power in the quickie.

Yeah. So maybe that's for you listeners, that's like the one takeaway.

That's right. Sometimes, especially in busy, busy season and having young children who are constantly at your door, you know, I mean, it's.

I can't use the potty with all my little one year old.

I know, I know.

At the door I'm like, I'm just trying to use the bathroom.

I just need a moment. No, it is like. I remember we had your first two. How far apart are they in age? Your first two kids?

One and two, so.

Oh yes, they're even closer. Our first two were two years apart. And I remember, I mean, it's almost. I mean, I know having twins is like next level, but I felt sometimes like we had twins. And I'm sure you guys, especially only being a year apart, it's like you have twins.

Yeah.

And it is very challenging. It's awesome. And they're gonna be best friends for life. And this third child too. It's just awesome to have them so close. But it is hard to invest in your marriage. Like, you know, besides quickies, the awesome quickies, like, what else do you guys. Are you guys strategic about doing to invest in your marriage? Especially with, with having such young children.

Yeah. That's good. So every night we try our best to have that one on one time, you know, where we're being intentional about connecting. Like everything off to the side. And either it's in bed or it could be in the living room, but we could turn off all electronics and we try to talk through things, communicate. And I think that's been real huge. Especially last night because we're banging each other yesterday, you know.

Yeah.

Because it was just a big day with a lot of tension. I still got my back pain.

And then the book, you know, the.

Book.

And wife's navigating the waters of taking care of the boys and the house, man. It's just a lot. But towards the end of the night, we felt so much peace in God's presence. In the moment where we just let everything go and talked.

Yeah.

And it was beautiful. I went to sleep as a joyful, happy man.

That was good.

That's huge. Yeah. The end of the day that way. Carving out time. That's one of the healthiest things a couple can do. That's so important.

It is, it is.

Denise, what would you add?

I like what he said. That's true. But also, we. We get date nights. Like, we. We have somebody watch the boys at night, and we've had a few date nights that were really fun and really great. Unforgettable.

Yeah.

And I think making time for, like, going out with your spouse without the boys. And when we went to Washington recently, we. We left the boys with my in laws and it was just a great time to just be us by ourselves for a couple of days and wake up and not worry about a diaper change or the. It was just amazing. Okay.

No, it really is. You almost forget, like in the midst. I always say, in the thick of parenthood, you know, like, it's awesome and it's a huge blessing, but you can forget what it was like to just be the two of you. And it's important to remember that, you know. Cause one day those kids are gonna, you know, fly from the nest, hopefully. And it's just gonna be, you know, the husband and the wife. And so you guys are so wise to be four years married with these two young children and you're doing all those things that you're supposed to be doing. I just wanna commend you on that because I know you. It's not easy. It's not easy. It sometimes takes moving heaven and earth to find a time to go to Washington or to find a time to go on a date night. Even just a simple date night. Like I remember going down. We've lived away from our family for most of our marriage, and definitely the whole time we've had children. And there's some times where we would go down, like seven babysitters deep just to have a date night. Because we would feel. Rashawn, that tension you're talking about, we could just feel it building. And we're like, we just need to have a timeout here.

We need some time. We need a moment a couple hours away. So build that babysitting roster. Budget for it.

Build the roster. That's right.

You two have shared such great wisdom today. You should pick up that microphone you're talking into and just drop it. Drop. Because you've shared a bunch of mic drop moments. But it looks expensive, so don't actually drop it. But just know, you two have shared so many mic drop moments, and you guys are just so authentic, so encouraging, so refreshing. I want to encourage you guys who are watching right now. We're out of time. I know our listeners are ready to get out of here and go have a quickie after this conversation.

Please do.

But I want to encourage listeners, two quick things. Number one, check out Rashaun Copeland's new book, Start where youe Are. It's a powerful book. And be watching for Denise's book coming out next year. That's going to be powerful as well. And then look them up on social media. It's R A S H A W N and D E N I S S E Copeland. And look them up wherever you're on social media. Their daily feeds, what they're putting out there is so powerful, so encouraging. And it's. Of course, social media is totally free. And it is. They are gonna add some encouragement into your life. You need to connect with these two. And Rashawn and Denise, we love you guys. We are praying for you and cheering you on. God is doing amazing things in your family and he's just. I'm just excited to see what he does next. I'm honored to call you friends.

That's right. Thank you all so much for taking time out of your busy schedules to share with us. You guys are awesome. God bless you both.

We love you guys and hope to see you on Dallas soon.

Yes, we hope so, man. Anytime.

We would love it. We would love it.

Come on down.