Stop Fighting In Your Communication

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Hey, friends. Welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis and we are talking about communication, one of the biggest issues in marriage. And today specifically, Hot Topic one that everybody can relate to because every couple's had disagreements. And what do you do if you're just in that cycle of disagreement? And specifically, how do we stop fighting? If you're in that rut where it seems like every conversation just turns into a fight and there's tension and there's. There's miscommunication and it's exhausting. And if you're listening watching today, welcome. If you're in that dynamic, you're not alone. We're glad you're here. This is a safe place for you to kind of process and hopefully learn some new tools. And we're gonna. We're gonna dive in and talk about it today.

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We do. So we're continuing in our series about communication, which is just a huge benchmark in marriage. Like, you've got to, like, we have to really get a handle on healthy communication in order to have a healthy marriage. And the thing about communication that is a big misunderstanding is like, oh, well, we just arrive at being great communicators and then we just never have to really ponder communication again. But God in his great mercy of, of growing us, of sanctifying us and keeping us on our toes has not designed us that way. Because what happens is life throws new things our way. And, you know, we may have children, we change jobs, we move, we have new people come into our life. And so we constantly need to come back to honing those communication skills. Right, sweetie? I mean, We've been married 22 years together almost 24 years. We've had to work on communication a lot.

Yeah, it's a never ending skill set that you're developing and you're learning each other. Right. It's not just these blanket principles that automatically work the same on everybody, even with our own children. Communication tactics that work with one don't necessarily work with the other. It's rooted in relationship. You have to get to know that person. You have to grow along with that person into who they're becoming to really be able to communicate with them. And in marriage especially, your spouse is changing and growing. You're changing and growing. The dynamics that you're living in are changing and growing. And you gotta just, you gotta stay in tune. Last week's episode, if you missed it, I encourage you to go back and watch or listen. It's all about, it's called how to get your spouse to listen. And it's really also about how to get your spouse to talk. I mean, really, it's just, it's really both.

It's both because if you're going to. You can't really talk well to your spouse if you haven't listened well, and vice versa.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And then. But today, well, what if. What if it's that the talk, the talk has become just negative. You know, it's fighting. It devolves into negativity. Every time we try to have a conversation, it just gets to this place of a fight where we dig our heels in and we can't seem to find common ground. What do you do? And I mean, I would say, like, the Bible is the best communication manual ever written. Among many other things, it's God's living word. It's relevant to every part of your life. But Ephesians, which is a book in the Bible written to the church in Ephesus, that's why it's called Ephesians. That's just what the people were called who lived there. And it has a lot of great relationship principles in it that apply to us 2,000 years later. And Ephesians chapter 4, verse 32 says, Be kind and compassionate to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you. That one little verse has so many important communication principles that it starts with kindness and compassion that as soon as we start becoming cruel or cynical or sarcastic towards each other, we're already failing. We're already sinking the ship, sabotaging the communication. We got to start with kind, kindness and compassion and forgiveness, believing the best in each other, offering grace and then being tender hearted. Even if your spouse is being rude to. Instead of throwing gasoline on that fire, choose to be a peacemaker. That doesn't mean you're a doormat. It doesn't mean that you just take verbal abuse. But as far as it depends on you to be the one to bring peace and to try to diffuse the situation and to really get to the heart of where's this frustration coming from? Right? I mean, what is might not have anything to do with you? I mean, a lot of times when Ashley comes to me and she's like, are you mad at me? And I'm like, no. Why? It's because I'm coming across as like, angry and frustrated. And she's like, well, it seems like you're mad at me. It's like, no, I'm just frustrated. I'm frustrated about this thing that's happening at work or this unexpected bill we got that I'm trying to figure out how to pay or the way that the kids are. It could be a million. I just don't feel good. Today. But when we believe the best in each other, instead of taking it personally, like, oh my gosh, my spouse is being frustrated. Well, I've got even more right to be frustrated than you. What do you got to be frustrated about?

Well, see that, it's that spiral. Yeah, we get into that just, I mean, we do. And I think if you've been married any length of time, you can relate to this. Like, that spiral is very easy to fall into. In fact, I feel like that's. If we don't, if we're not intentional, that's what's going to happen because that resentment builds up. And I'm telling you, so many couples that we've talked to over the years, that that is the thing. It's like they get in the spiral. You know, in my studies in marriage and family therapy, I've learned about, you know, Dr. John Gottman. He's not necessarily, he's actually Jewish, so he's not a Christian per se, but he is a great researcher of relationships, wealth of knowledge, let me tell you.

He and his wife have spent their lives creating the Gottman Institute, which is a research based institute where they have, you know, labs, the love lab.

They've observed couples over decades.

Amazing. A wealth of research they are. And great insights that point back to what the Bible does tell us about it really does.

Like, that's what. The whole time I'm reading his book on seven principles to make a marriage work. Like, it just. The whole time I'm smiling and I would relay this back to you and I'm like, this is what the Bible says, you know. But it's so cool to see that researchers discover this as well. Like, you know, God's truth is always true. Right? And it's, it just always comes back, you know, we come back to those truths. But one thing that really stuck out to me about that is he describes this cycle and he gave it a name. I think sometimes when we can name something, it just helps bring clarity to the problem. And when we can bring clarity to the problem, we can also. It's like the solution becomes clearer as well. We kind of know which, which route to take. And he talks about this dynamic where you feel like you're fighting all the time, you're in this negative spiral. We've called it like the marriage tornado. Like in certain talks, you can actually look that up and find our talk that.

The F5 marriage tornado.

The F5 marriage tornado because it talks about.

Start with F. They kind of.

That bring you down to this just Never ending spiral. And then you repeat it and you just keep on coming, a bigger and bigger and bigger tornado. But he calls this like when. When you tend to have a negative bend to your spouse because you've gone through a long season of disappointing each other, frustrating each other, not really working. Well, he says that when you have that negative bend and what the Bible calls a hardened heart, okay, essentially like your heart has become hard to your spouse. You're not even really listening anymore. You don't even really want to talk to them. You just try to. You're walking on eggshells around each other, or maybe just rage, you know, you're showing rage to each other. He calls this flooding. And where you're flooded with emotions like you just can't.

And all of us have been there.

We've all been there. And he said, but it starts. It starts with having that hardened heart and by assuming the worst of your spouse. And you have this negative bend, like, towards your spouse, instead of a positive assumption that they don't mean you harm, right? And he says, and we just like, the quicker we become flooded, really, and we don't. We're not quick to repair that, right? We're not quick to repair. Then the further down, the further frayed the relationship becomes. And so it's so important that we really take an assessment and really pray, like, God, reveal the blind spots. God, you know, search my heart. Like, are we. Am I flooding? You know, like really on a personal level, like, am I becoming flooded with my spouse? It's good to self assess there and ask God to really make it clear to you. Because if you are there, it is a crucial point. And I'm not saying this to be gloom and doom. I'm saying this because when we can say, wow, this is a crucial, crucial point, then we know we need to get help, right? Because if you're already at the flooding point, you need to seek professional help like you really do. I would say probably 90. Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi there.

Hey.

All right, hon. I'll grab the gift wrap cards and, oh, those stuffed animals the girls want.

Great. And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drop? This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.

I'm fine, honey.

Well, just in case.

You know what they say, Tis the season.

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Go seek a professional to help them get out of this. Because once you've reached the point of flooding where literally like your spouse could walk in a room and you feel annoyed, like, just annoyed. You haven't said a word. They haven't said a word. You feel annoyed. You need to, you need to repair that because it's a crucial point. Now you may be like, well, no, it's just the seventh year of marriage. You know, we have a seven year itch. It's just this, it's just this season of life. It's, it's a busy season.

Every season is a busy season.

Yes. You just don't make excuses. You need to get repair. And if you're at that point, a lot of times you've been through a long season of not repairing and there's a lot that needs and you totally can be healed. You totally can be helped. But a lot of times it takes getting a professional. And that's why our mediators here at exo marriage, they can be a game changer for you and they can meet with you virtually. I know you guys are like, man, you guys are like just, you know, saying this all the time. But it's because we know what they can do. They actually have, I think they said like an 85% success rate.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's very high.

Many of them are, you know, some of them are here just working through like a specific issue, that the marriage overall is in a good place. But many who come here, they are just at, they're at the doorstep of the divorce attorney.

Right.

Like, they feel like this is just kind of a last hope.

Like I'm just, I'm going to do this, do my due diligence.

But if they go through the process and like Jimmy Evans, our ministries founder, said, your marriage has a 100% chance of success if you do it God's way.

Right. And you're both committed.

Wholeheartedly believe that you're both committed and we'll give you the tools. The tools are there to help you. If two people are committed and our mediators, they do an amazing job, you can go to xomarriage.com help and learn more about that. They can meet with you virtually from anywhere in the world. Or if you're in the Dallas Fort Worth area, you can come to our offices here in South Lake and they can meet with you like they're doing right now on the other side of these doors down the hall. There are several conversations going through mediation and getting great benefit from it.

And I would say, too, you know, if that's not something that right now you're like, I don't know about that. I'd rather meet in person in my hometown. You can go to aacc.net and see a long list of local counselors in your area, and that is the American association of Christian Counselors. Because you want to have a Christian counselor. You want to have someone coming from that Christian worldview who is going to be in agreement with you that your marriage is worth fighting for. And, you know, sometimes when you go to some of these counselors that are more secular, you just don't know what you're going to get. And I'm not saying that they couldn't be of help. Maybe they could be, but you just don't know what you're going to get. And so, you know, it's important because I think sometimes you can have, you know, one of you who. And maybe it's, you know, the one who's watching and listening today. You recognize there's flooding going on. We are at this crossroads where, you know, my spouse could not show up and say he wants a divorce or she wants a divorce tomorrow, or we could just continue in this kind of fractured marriage for years. You know, some people exist like this for years, and then they just live parallel lives. And they, you know, they're maybe tell themselves, well, we're staying in it for the kids. But really, the kids sense all this, you know, distress in the house, too. I just want to. I want to level with you and say, like, I am so glad that you're listening to this because you are not, you know, too far gone for God to do a miracle. You're not. But I do think it's important that even if it's you at first going to the counselor by yourself, it's important that, you know, you do your part that you can do to create peace in your home and then keep on in a gentle way, in a loving way, inviting your spouse. And I'm telling you, we've seen God do this over and over. I can't tell you how many times with Dave being a pastor and us meeting and doing, like, pastoral counseling with couples, us meeting with a couple and not being sure when they leave what's going to happen. I love, like, I really, like, I'm, like, they could. God could do a miracle here or they could tell us their divorce next week. Like, I have no idea what's going to happen here, but let me tell you Most of the time, I would say most of the time, they, like, actually, I mean, just the other day I was at the ornament exchange and found, you know, saw one of the wives from a couple that many years ago we counseled and they were. It was for communication. They were in there. They weren't sure they wanted to stay together. And kind of in this counseling session, what it came down to is the husband and the wife both felt like the other. They were hardened heart. They had hardened hearts, okay. Because they felt like the other just didn't want to enter into their individual worlds of interest. Like, and I remember the husband in particular, like, we were. It was. He was real quiet the whole session. And the wife, she was very just. You could tell she was hurt and upset. And, you know, Dave, I think you posed the question. You said, well, what. What is something she could do that she's not doing that would make a difference in your marriage? And he paused for a long time. And it was, you know, in counseling too, nobody likes the pauses like the counselees or the counselor. Like, we're all pretty. But what I've learned through my counseling classes is that's when the Holy Spirit is doing his best work. And so you have to give him the way. But what this guy said, y', all, it was just not what we expected. We were like, what, you want to share it?

He's like, yeah. I mean, so, you know, I love, just love country.

Like this strong, strong, hard working, hard working dude. Yeah.

And he's like, well, I'll tell you something she could do. And like, I like, okay, here it comes.

It could be anything.

It could be anything. He's like, you know, you know, he's gonna be, you know, I thought he'd say more sex, some sexual thing.

That's what you assume, right?

But it was not that at all. He said, she used to play with my remote control cars with me, and I really enjoyed when we would play with them cars together. And she quit doing that. And it kind of hurt my feelings.

I mean, legit, this is.

And I was like, am I being punked? Is this really happening?

But you know what? And he teared up. He teared up talking about this because it was the time together.

Yeah. And she's like, I didn't know it was that big a deal to you. And he's like, well, it was. That's when we would really talk and have fun and laugh. And it was so sweet. Cause, like, what he was saying is, like, I just. I miss my friend. Like, I want to connect again. I want to have fun again. I want to just play together and laugh together. And I miss that. And every couple needs that. Like, if it just becomes all, like, the business of marriage, like the paying bills and running kids places, and we start drifting apart and losing that connection, that deep connection.

The friendship.

The friendship, yeah. Like, we gotta get back to that. What is it in your marriage that you used to do that you stopped doing along the way? You know, what were those habits, those priorities that you used to have that brought you closer together?

Right.

Cause you didn't outgrow those things. You just quit doing them. And it's time to maybe get back to some of those basic things and then creating new adventures too.

Right?

Like, let's find some new. New hobbies to do together. Let's. Let's try pickleball. Let's do something.

Let's see if we. Or pickleball.

Pickleball. Let's see if. I mean, let's try some things and see if maybe. Maybe we hate it. Maybe we'll laugh and say, well, that was an adventure, but we'll probably never do it again. But find. Find some things that you can enjoy doing together just for the sake of having fun and growing your relationships. It's.

And not talking shop and not talking about the big elephant thing. I mean, you've got to talk about the elephant in the room, but sometimes you just have to have reprieve and you have to have just something where you have that. That breath of fresh air just to have fun, you know? So I ran into the wife, and she was glowing and just had her whole family there. This is many years ago, but I do remember when we left that appointment, I mean, that was a breakthrough moment, and she shared something that.

Oh, yeah, she.

I can't even remember what it was, but it was very pivotal for them. But when we left that appointment, I do remember there was a lot of work still to be done. But I remember fast forward a few months, and they ended up renewing their vows.

I got to do, like, a vow renewal song.

It was the sweetest thing ever. And, like, they're still going strong, and I just. I look at their beautiful family and I just smile. I mean, I just. I just smile. Like, it just warms my heart. But I do think sometimes it's not even this big thing that needs to happen. Like, it's the little things.

Yeah, it's getting back to little things.

And I just think, you know, one thing too I've learned kind of over the Years is. And this is in a lot of different books on marriage. But you have to remember that, like you said, sweetie, that deep inside your spouse is still. That little boy, is still that little girl that, you know, that is sensitive and wants to connect. And I think we forget that. Like, we forget that. Like, we might be in our 40s, but really in our minds, we're still young and we still have all these hopes and dreams and interests. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're. I think we get so caught up in just the business of life that.

We forget that, like me, there's like.

Yeah, do they still want me? Do they still like me? Do they still want to be my friend?

They still want to hang out with me? Do they still intrigued by me? Are they still attracted to me? I mean, there's a little part of all of us that's always asking. And so don't make your spouse have to wonder about that. Let them know. I'm so. I just love being with you.

Yes.

I just love the adventures we have. I'm so. I'm so attracted to you. I mean, you've never been more beautiful. You've never been more. I mean, compliment each other, and if you're stuck in that negative cycle, be the one that goes first to break out of it. It takes somebody going first to just commit to, you know what? I'm just gonna stop being negative. Like, when they're negative, you know, I might have, like, I'll try to respond with positivity. If that doesn't work, I might have to just. Just sort of say, well, you know, you seem like you're in a really bad mood. Let's. Let's reconnect when you're feeling better. But just to really, really try to commit to that path of. I'm going to be encouraging. I'm going to show gratitude. I'm going to thank them for the things they are doing well. I'm going to look for things I can thank them for. I'm going to be an encourager, not a critic. And if you'll do that, if you'll commit to that for long enough, you'll start to see a change in them. I'm not saying that you can change your spouse's heart. I'm not saying because each spouse is responsible for their own activities. But I'm saying it always takes somebody going first or else the marriage is never going to move forward. So you be the one to go first.

That's right. And you might be like, well, I'm always the one to go first. But it's like. But if you. I mean, maybe that is true and that can be frustrating, but it takes somebody. Somebody's got to. Or you're going to stay in that tornado. You're going to keep. Keep on building up that resentment, keep on building up more ammo, kind of to where you guys are just hurting each other, you know, bringing up stuff from the past and calling each other names. Like, I would take that stuff off the table. I wouldn't bring up the past. Don't cuss at each other or curse or swear, however you say it around the country. Don't, you know, call each other names. Don't. Just don't do things that, you know, we always say below the belt where. Where it's meant to hurt them. You gotta go in with the posture of I want to heal this, I want to repair this. You know, this is someone I love. Yes, they've hurt me, they've hurt me recently. And this isn't to discount that hurt. You need to address it. But you're going in with the posture of repair, and that makes all the difference.

Absolutely.

And again, don't be slow to reach out for help. I think so many times, Dave, don't you think that we wait till we feel like it's just dire?

Yeah. Don't wait for there to be a crisis. I mean, if you're in a crisis, obviously, reach out for help. But. But as soon as you see those warning lights pop up on the dashboard, so to speak, that like, okay, we're a little bit off, we've gotten into a rut. It's time to do something different. Reach out for help. You don't have to figure it out alone. Don't let pride keep you from getting the help that you need. And like we said, we've got help here. Available xomarriage.com help and there are plenty other places, too. But I'm really proud of the team we have here in house that can help you. And feel free to reach out to us anytime on Instagram. We're Ave and AshleyWillis. If you've got a question or just anything you want to tell us, you can send us a message. We always love hearing from you and we love you guys. We appreciate you. Do us a favor and share this episode. I promise somebody out there needs to hear it. Thanks for partnering with us to spread this message of hope around the world. God bless you guys. We'll see you next time.

Bye, guys.