Summer Quickies: The Right Way to Fight

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Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, we have come to the end of our summer quickie Q and A series. And you guys, it's been so much fun. It's bittersweet, right?

It is bittersweet. The end of summer.

I know it's still hot outside in Texas and Georgia. Both places. We go back and forth to both hot places. So yes, we were at but we're.

Still wearing jackets to kind of.

It's cold in here.

Will the cool weather of fall to come upon us. We're just willing it in this lovely air conditioned studio.

That's right.

But it's been a fun summer. Thank you guys for, for being part of it. Thank you for the questions you sent in@nakedmarriagepodcast.com continue to send in those questions because at the end of every episode this fall and beyond, we'll end every episode answering one of your questions. And then in addition to the on air questions, you can also write us on social media. If you're not following us, Ave and Ashley Willis on Instagram or on the marriage page on Facebook. Follow us. We would love for you to be part of those online communities where every day we're posting marriage content and and also doing our best to engage with you in real time. So thank you guys so much for that. It's been a fun summer. Stay tuned. This fall we've got some big surprises planned. Planned and you're not going to want to miss it. So continue to watch every Monday as new episodes drop and even some bonus episodes. And listen. Yeah, and listen. Yeah. If you want to watch though you might not even know this, all these are on YouTube. And so you can look up the Naked Marriage podcast with Dave and Ashley Willis on YouTube and all these episodes, including some clips from episodes and full episodes and a bunch of other bonus content is available exclusively on that YouTube channel. So check that out too. But of course, if you just like to have us in your ears. We're cool with that, too.

Totally. Okay, so our last question of this series is a really good one that I think all of us who've been married for any length of time can relate to, and it has to do with fights. Okay? So the question is, how do we fight and resolve conflict without starting a war? Every time we try to resolve conflict, it turns ugly. How do we fight in a healthy way that will actually bring resolution?

Boom.

Oh, my goodness. We can relate to this.

No, we can't.

I know.

We don't fight.

Well, I mean, we've come a long way, sweetie. We've been married 20 years now, and so we've learned a lot, you know, and we still have to keep ourselves in check. Absolutely. But I know early on in our marriage, I did this weird thing, okay, where I expected Dave to read my mind, and then I would, like, give him reactions through my body language and literally fight with him through my glares and huffing and puffing or give me.

These kind of invisible, unspoken tests that I would continually fail and not realize that I was being tested or failing. And so it would. And then you get frustrated, and I would get confused and frustrated. And, I mean, I was doing unhealthy stuff, too. I wasn't just. This wasn't all on you. Like, I was making a lot of mistakes.

We learned a lot.

We did. And we continue to learn. And you guys are continuing to learn by just continuing to invest in your merit, by listening to the podcast and doing things like this. To say, I want to get better. This is a lifelong journey. We never arrive. I want to keep getting better. And we do, too. And so we're glad that we're in this together. And so part of what we've learned in our work, in our higher education studies on these kinds of things, in studying the Bible and living out real life application, and in working with thousands of couples through the years, is number one. You have to realize you and your spouse are always on the same team. That way you'll understand this is the most important principle. I believe in disagreement. In marriage, there's never a winner and a loser. You either win together or you lose together. And the moment you both can grasp that concept, you argue differently. Because it's no longer, I've got to get my point across and I've got to win this argument. I've got to show him or her that they're wrong and that I'm right. Instead, it's like, I need to listen and understand where they're coming From I need to try to really understand and respect their perspective so that together we can move to a solution where we both can win, because we're either gonna both win or we're both gonna lose. And if you'll understand just that first principle, it will change the way that you disagree.

It will. And I think that, you know, we have to realize, too, that we have to be good listeners. So we do have to speak in a clear way and not think that our body language can somehow get our point across. I mean, that's madness, right? We can't expect our spouse to know how we feel and what we need just simply through our huffs and puffs and our negative body language. We need to go to them and just speak plainly in a loving way. And again, I had to learn this the hard way, but that's what we need to do. And, you know, this person who's writing it sounds like they're going through a rough patch. This is a season where they are rubbing each other the wrong way. And it's. It's. You know, I don't know particularly what's going on in their life, but Dave always describes it this way. You know, it could be. And I don't know if this is a husband or wife either, so I'm not sure what's going on. But let's say that it's a wife who really needs to resolve things with her husband. And her husband comes home and she decides, you know, I'm going to address something with him. And she could say it in the most respectful way possible, but no matter how she says or what she says to him, he just takes it negatively. And it could be that he's going through a rough season at work. It could be that there's something he hasn't told her yet that he really just doesn't want to burden her with. That's what he's telling himself, at least, or maybe something he really needs to confess to her. And so he's kind of holding it inside, and it's really making him as if he's like someone with sunburn. So whoever really comes to him who's close to him, who's trying to resolve something, if you put your hand on someone's shoulder who has sunburn, even if it's a caring hand, they're gonna kind of retract and jump back because they're hurt. It stings. And I think that's kind of what's going on here, is they're going through a rough patch and they're Just kind of rubbing each other the wrong way. And she's putting that hand on him to try to resolve something, but he's taking it as a slap to his back that is filled with sunburn. And so it's really important that we come to our spouse using. And we've said this so many times, but I'm gonna say it again using I statements. Okay? When we come to our spouse saying, listen, I'm feeling this way, you know, I feel like that we're going through kind of a rough patch here. And I want to ask you if I have done anything to make you feel like you're not close to me or to make you feel like you can't talk to me. Because I'm going through a rough patch too. Like, I'm stressed out now, too. But I don't want to make excuses. I really want you to tell me honestly if I've done something because I'm not aware of it.

And then don't get offended by what they say. Don't be like, well, I didn't mean that. And be open because they might say, like, something you weren't expecting. Like, I'm really sexually frustrated, and I feel like you're not prior. This is my biggest need. And you're not prioritizing it. And I find myself just kind of feeling resentment towards you that I'm trying to work through or, you know, or it might have nothing to do with you. They might say, you know, I'm carrying all this stress from work and I'm trying to not burden you with that, and I don't know how to process it, or I feel like a failure in this part of my life, or I'm feeling just physically not at my best, and that exhaustion and stress is wearing me out. And I've just been having a short fuse lately. And at different seasons of our life, we all have those different kinds of feelings, I think. But you have to have the ability to talk about it in a safe and supportive environment. And when you go to your spouse with these kind of concerns or questions, had the right tone makes all the difference. Sometimes you could say all the right things, but if you say it in the right tone, then the wrong tone, right the wrong tone, you've already lost. You've got to take that. Any sharpness or sarcasm out of your tone and really approach your spouse with warmth. You know, it says in the Bible, the book of Ephesians, be kind and compassionate to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God, through Christ has forgiven us. And that's Ephesians 4:32. And that's a powerful verse when applied to marriage. That kind and compassionate, tenderhearted, forgiving. Those are the attitudes we've got to approach each other with. But when we go in with our fists up, guns a blazing, then we're creating a fight when there didn't have to be a fight. It could have just been a conversation to say, like, you know, I'm concerned, or I'm feeling this way, and what can I do to help us work through this together? And when you remind each other, I love you, I'm for you, I believe in you. I'm so thankful to be married to you. You're the best thing in my life. And I want to work through this together so that we can have the best marriage possible, and so that I can help you be at your very best. What can I do to serve you in that way? Man, those kind of statements are so disarming. It's almost impossible to be offended by that. And so we just need to be very careful not to give offense and not to take offense in marriage. To choose to believe the best in each other, even when your spouse is coming to you, and they might be a little prickly, they might be a little frustrated or angry, to choose to believe the best in them, saying, look, I know they're in a bad mood right now, but I know he or she loves me, they're for me, and we're going to get through this. And their motives are pure, and they want the same thing I want, which is just for our marriage to thrive. And so I'm gonna listen to what they have to say, even if they're saying it not the nicest way, and choose to believe that this doesn't represent their whole heart of how they feel about the marriage. It's just how they're feeling right in this moment. And we're gonna believe the best in each other.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, let's say that your spouse does respond kind of in an unfavorable way, and maybe they start yelling at you or saying things that are hurtful. I do think you need to call them out, though, and say, listen, I know you don't mean this. I know you're gonna look back on this and you're gonna regret this. So let's pause and wait till we're both more calm. And I think that because that's how you don't start a war. You know, it says, how do we resolve conflict without starting a war? Is you all don't wanna do or say anything you're gonna regret. So I remember one time, Dave and I, this is before we did marriage ministry, many years ago, as pastors, we were sent to a conference and there was like a session on marriage, because, believe it or not, pastors have marriage issues too. And we all need to work through stuff because again, none of us ever arrive. And I remember we had probably been married, you know, maybe like seven years at that point. And I will never forget what this one pastor said who was teaching that session. And he said, and it's very simple. And he put arm movements with it. And I think I can even remember it. But he was like, be the first to stop the fighting. Do you remember this?

Yeah.

Do you remember the arm movements? Cause those. Watching YouTube, it would be so cool. But I just remember it was something really cool and it was just. It really stuck with me. And those of you listening and watching, you're like, well, that is so simple. But what he was saying is, you have the power to be water or gasoline. And he's like, choose every time to be gasoline when there's a fire, not gasoline. I'm sorry. Choose every time to be water when this fire is going on.

And that's, be gasoline in the bedroom. Stoke that fire, but be water. Be water in the bedroom. I don't fight that fire. Yeah, yeah. Put that fire out. Advice.

No, but when it comes to fighting, it really is like there's this little flame. And you can either, you know, put water on that flame and say, listen, I love you. Let's wait till we're calm. And I'm not saying you just keep putting it off and don't address the problem. Cause you're gonna have to address it. But you don't necessarily have to have that discussion right then and there when the person is about to lose their mind and do and say things they regret. And I just remember him saying, let.

Them be at their best.

Exactly. He was like, be the first to stop the fighting. Take your pride out of it. Take whatever out of it. Just. And say, God help me. Okay. And the timing may not be what you want. We just have to put on our big girl, big guy pants here and just be adults and say, listen, you're really stressed right now. I can tell this is not the right time, and I love you. I don't want either one of us to say anything we're going to regret. So I'm going to give you some time. But we do have to come back to this. So you know, take your time. And then later, when they're calm, say, listen, when do you think would be a good time? I don't want to keep on prolonging this conversation, but I just want us to have clear minds and clear hearts. And so when you can come to a point where you can talk in a really honest, open, and respectful way, that's when the breakthrough happens. But if it's constantly just this tit for tat argument, you never do this. You always do that. You're literally not getting anywhere. You're just throwing gasoline on it and you're hurting each other's hearts. Like, that's where you see couples where they fought so much and they've done the war, so to speak, so much that they end up doing the white flag. And it might look like divorce, or it might look like just apathy where they live as roommates, but their hearts couldn't be farther apart. And that's not what you want. I know that. Like, those of you listening, and that's not what God wants. He wants restoration. He wants healing. He wants resolution. And so what we have to do is we have to. I mean, you guys, a lot of times the root of this is pride. I mean, it really is our own pride.

It really is. Pride is. Is the cause of every divorce. It manifests itself in different ways. But pride is that little voice that says, my way's right. I don't have to listen to you. I'm going to do what I want. And we believe that little voice. And that is just so toxic. And what Jesus calls us to is to humbly be peacemakers. He said, blessed are the peacemakers. That doesn't mean we have to be doormats. That doesn't mean we pretend that issues aren't there. We do have to have the courage to work through them. But when we're the first to stop the fighting, we have the ability to lead the way toward peace. And very often, and here's maybe the most practical thing we'll say in this whole episode, it takes connecting with someone outside your marriage to get that third party perspective through counseling or through mediation. You don't have to figure this out on your own. If you two are stuck in this cycle and you keep going back to the same place and you both say, I want peace, but you don't know how to get there. You need to take that next step and talk to somebody, some impartial, trained mediator who has no agenda but to help you. And they'll help you. And we've got an amazing team of trained marriage mediators right here at Exomarriage. They can talk to you by phone, by Skype, Zoom. You don't have to leave your home. You can meet with one of these amazing folks and they can guide you through conversations to help you think new thoughts, help you break out of these negative cycles, help you see the situation in a different way. And. And it could be the most important thing you do for your marriage. You can find out more about them at xomarriage.com help if you don't get the help from them, find a good Christian counselor in your area and sit down and have these important conversations. But for a lot of couples to really change the cycle, that's the step that has to happen.

Absolutely. Yeah. Especially if you've tried everything and you're listening to this episode and you're like, Dave and Ashley, I've literally done everything you're saying. Gotta bring in professional help. And don't wait till it's just the worst it's ever been. Do it when there's been a week and you can't have a good conversation. That's enough. I mean, that's enough to say, okay, I don't want this to be our life. I want us to work this out. We've gotta do something new. And actually, I think I know the motions. Those of you watching on YouTube.

Okay, she's excited.

Christian camp motions. Two things. Okay? Those of you who've been to Christian camp, you totally get it.

A lot of choreography.

I think I need to sing Lord, I lift your name on high. Like, it's those kind of motions. Okay. All right. So it's be the first to stop the fighting. Do you remember this?

I do now. I think so.

Those of you watching, be the first to stop fighting, okay? And, you know, I think the reason, even as adults, they gave us these motions is there's something that happens with the kinetic learning that drills it into your mind. I really think that's why I remember it, because I do. Like, out of that entire conference, that entire weekend, that's what I remember. And it doesn't mean I know some listening are like, well, gosh, it's always me. Like, what if it's always me? And that might be this person, right?

It's always me. The only reason there's peace is because I just surrender and walk away. And they keep being unhealthy.

Right? And that's not what we're saying.

That's not what we're saying at all. That's not what being a peacemaker is. That's being a doormat. And that's not what God has called us to. But that's when it's always gonna take, even before it gets to that point. Meet with that counselor, meet with the marriage mediator. Even if it is just you solo to get some new tools and some new ways to engage in conversations in a healthy way. You don't have to figure this all out on your own, guys. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, thou shalt figure it out. But over and over in the Bible, we're encouraged to go to God and to go to others who can help us. And that's what you need to do. And we've got some folks here who can help you in that journey. So again, that site is exomarriage.com help keep working to be a peacemaker in your marriage. What a great way to end this summer quickie series with this issue that I think every couple can relate to in some ways. So thank you guys so much for staying tuned with us all summer. Stay tuned again through the fall. We've got great things planned, including some live events we don't want you to miss. If you go to xomarriage.com and look for the events or the conferences section, you can see that we've got events coming up in Florida and in Texas in the coming months. You can also watch those online, but we would love for you to come and experience them in person, if not this fall. Starting in February, we've got a whole new round of events coming. But come to these. They will make such a difference in your marriage. The most fun weekends of our whole year are the exo marriage conferences.

They are. And we often, not always, but we often get to do a meet and greet. And that's literally some of the best moments. Like, we get to meet people like you guys who listen and hear your story. And so we love that at the events. It's so fun.

We love it. We'd love to meet you. We're shorter than you're expecting.

Always. People always say that.

And we can't wait. Can't wait to see you there. Thanks again for staying tuned and keep working on your marriage. God always honors those efforts. We're praying for you and cheering you on every step of the way. We'll see you next time.