The Argument Hangover

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And we are coming to you. If you're watching us, you can tell this this new spiffy desk is kind of a newer thing in our studio here in South Lake, Texas, the marriage capital of the world. And we are here at EXO headquarters and we have an awesome episode all about what is referred to as the argument hangover from our friends the Freeman's. We're going to tell you all about it, but before we dive in, I'm going to share a review with you. And I love the title of this review. It is from a person who calls themselves Property of Jesus, which I just love. And they entitled their review Nessa is not as smart as Dave and Ashley, which is probably the biggest compliment we've ever received. That is amazing.

Maybe it's accurate for Ashley. She like, was valedictorian. I, you know, I kind of thrived in the, in, in mediocrity.

That is just not true. She is so smart.

She could have worked at NASA.

No, no. But I really appreciate this title. So five stars. Thank you, Property of Jesus. Here's what they had to say. This podcast is incredible, priceless information in here, stuff you may never hear from any other people in your life. These people reveal the awesome treasure that marriage is and that protecting this treasure is one of the most important things we can do. So this podcast will open your eyes to truths that we all need if we want to protect and cherish our marriage. This is a godsend. So nice. Thank you so much.

Yeah, your feedback, really, it encourages us so much and it also helps other people discover this podcast. So you're actually, when you leave a review or you share this podcast in any capacity, you're partnering with us to spread a message of hope all around the world. You're part of our Naked Marriage global family and we appreciate that so much. And so today we got a great episode. Great episode to listen to. This is also a great one to watch though. If you've never gone over to YouTube and watched this, you can see the whole thing. And so go over to YouTube and check it out. Totally free over there, just like it is on, on all platforms. And you'll be able to meet the Freemans today. Aaron and Jocelyn Freeman are super popular relationship coaches. They're authors, they're great content creators around all kinds of subjects related to marriage and relationships. We're going to talk today about their brand new book the Argument Hangover, which could be a game changer for how you approach conflict and conflict resolution in your marriage. So we're so excited about today's conversation. Let's dive in.

Well, Jocelyn and Erin, welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are so excited to be finally talking with you guys. We've been fans of yours for a long time, and so welcome.

Thank you so much. And we've also been fans of yours, so this is something we're very excited about.

Yay.

Well, you guys have a lot going on. I mean, you've got a baby coming. Yes. You got a hot book that's out right now. We want to talk about all of it. You know, baby stuff, book stuff, but specifically, kind of launching in, I want to talk about the Argument Hangover, which is the name of your new book. Such a practical resource, and I love the content. I love the topic. And I think a lot of folks that are tuning in today, they're tuning in because they can relate. Like, even without maybe having read the book yet, Argument Hangover, they feel that when you just say it, they feel. They're like, man, I'm having that right now. Like, we're coming off of a disagreement in marriage and just, you know, all the junk that kind of follows that. And so tell us a little bit about what an argument hangover is, why you wrote the book, and then we're going to dive into how couples can. Can do a better job through the inevitable disagreements that can happen in marriage.

Yes.

Yeah. So the Argument Hangover. Right. So many couples can relate, just like you said, to the experience of the period of time after a disagreement. You're disconnected. You sometimes feel guilty for what you said or how you said it. You feel hurt, you know, by your partner's behavior or things that they said in the emotion. And so afterwards, you're definitely not feel your best.

Yeah.

And for some couples, that is a day, three days. We've talked to couples where it's either weeks, months of a hangover, because that hangover period lasts all the way until it's fully resolved emotionally. And for some couples, they don't even come back to resolve it and repair it. And perhaps we'll talk about that a little bit later. But some couples just try to say, well, I'm sorry, and they hope that's what allows them to move on. But why do couples then feel like a couple of weeks later, the same disagreement comes up again or they refer back to it? Oh, yeah, this is just like then, you know, that time a couple Weeks ago. And so that's a sign that the hangover hasn't fully been resolved and that there's still emotion lingering. And it kind of came out of my mouth one day on a session with a couple. I said like, I think it literally just came out from an inspired moment, argument hangover. And they laughed. And so we started to realize it gave couples language to describe that period of time afterwards and then go, okay, how do we cure this hangover thing?

And it's not bad to bring some humor as a pattern interrupt to conflict. So we're like, oh yeah, argument hangover.

That's perfect. It is perfect.

No, it is. And I love how you said giving people language because it's good to identify. Okay, I have not resolved this yet. You know, if I'm going to bring this back up, clearly I haven't really forgiven them. I haven't really let this go and move past this. And so what are some things? And we don't wanna give everything away because we want listeners and people watching to go get your book. But like, if you wanna give us kinda just a little of what are some practical steps that people can take if they are listening to you right now and they're like, that's us. Like, we're still in this lingering argument hangover. There's these little things we can't get over. What are some steps they can take?

Yeah, great question. And we love practicality and things that are so simple. So let me go just a step back. You know the difference between healthy and unhealthy conflict. It's not that you have or don't have conflict at all. And we go more into that in the book, how conflict can be a great thing for your relationship. But at its basis, unhealthy versus healthy conflict, is when that emotion starts to come up. Do you pit yourselves against each other like a boxing match or it is the Olympics now, right? Maybe any sort of one on one event. Badminton, where it's you against your partner or a healthy conflict is where things come up but you stay like a team. You're a basketball team or a volleyball team, right back to the Olympics, but you're a team still looking at the challenge and then able to use that to grow more together. So in that instance right there, if you just use a code word or a phrase like same team, as a reminder, in that moment, hey, we're together, we're a couple, we're married, we love one another might not have felt it in that exact moment, but something that reminds you, let's stay on the same side rather than being against each other. Now you're on the path to healthy conflict.

If I could just share too briefly from an authentic place. So I grew up and watched my parents go from being madly in love to a very intense divorce. And, you know, it was shocking because everyone saw them as best friends. And long story short, I started to repeat a lot of their conflict patterns unconsciously, unintentionally. Oh, when you're mad, yell. When you're sad, you can say and do whatever you want. And so, like, just what you're speaking about with this code word, which is just one technique for how to de escalate conflicts, you want to interrupt your normal default patterns, which you either observed from your parents or movies or maybe some of your formative romantic relationships. And that's the key thing we have to first address. How do I show up by default? And how can we prevent those patterns from causing damage?

Man, I love that. And thank you so much for sharing that. I think so many of our listeners and people watching on YouTube can relate to that. They came from a home where, you know, maybe at times it was volatile and they thought, oh, they're just arguing passionately because they love each other. And then all of a sudden it's not working and they divorce. You know, I think so many can relate to that. And I know. And you talked about the patterns, you know, recognizing your default patterns. When we were early in our marriage, I did this thing that I so, like, looking back, I'm like, what in the world? Like, that was so unhealthy. But I would, you know, Dave would come to me to be on the same page and be like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this thing on Wednesday. Are you good with that? And I wouldn't be good with it. And instead of saying, no, I'd really like to spend some time with you that day. Can you do it? This other day, I would give him this weird look and I'd be like, do what you wanna do. Oh, do what you wanna do.

It's terrible.

And I would just thank God.

I don't know what to do with that.

It is horrible.

And I. And I did it for, like, several years, and I think it's something I saw at home. Like, I. I do.

Yeah. I think all of us. And I love how, you know, you refer back to kind of the origin stories of how all of us sort of get to where we are emotionally and relationally. We all have the propensity to kind of fall back into the same patterns that we observed growing up, whether they were good or bad, and none of them were perfect is the thing. So all of us have learned some unhealthy behaviors.

Yes.

Just from life, from our own experiences, from watching how our parents did it. And like we've learned some bad stuff, but then that bad stuff starts feeling normal and we'll fall right back into it without meaning to. Even if we recognize, even if logically we could say this isn't healthy. But it just feels like, well, this is what I do. This is what happened in my parents house. This is what I do now. So what's some of the advice of just I guess being aware of, of kind of those triggers without falling into the minefield of pointing it out to each other, like, oh, we're not gonna just live like your crazy, angry alcoholic mom. It's all your family's fault.

You know, this is just like your family.

You're turning into your dad without kind of pointing the finger at each other. Like, how can we individually and collectively, with unity and support, like recognize where we're falling into some of those maybe negative patterns and then help? And I love just the code word like you said. I think that's a great way to kind of pull out of it. But maybe some couples are listening and they aren't yet fully aware of some of those blind spots that they have of things that they're doing that aren't as healthy. And so how can we just be more aware that something we're doing or a pattern that we have is leading to conflict that maybe shouldn't be there?

Yeah, well, great question. I know you wanted to talk a little bit about the five Rs to repair after a conflict, but the first step is kind of a piece to your question. It's reflecting. So to answer your question, you have to give yourself time to reflect on what some of these patterns are for yourself. And in doing though, what you're wanting to look for are the two places. Again, not where conflict comes up, but where did this get escalated where I did or said something that is now a little more damaging to Jocelyn or the relationship, or where you contributed to a prolonged argument hangover. So now what you do is you look for those now triggers. And in the book we talk about three parts to a trigger. There's a triggering event. So. And all this happens so fast. There's the triggering event. Sometimes it can be something your partner said. It can be body language, facial expression, tone of voice. But something happens in a split second. You have A triggered emotion. That's what sets us off down the path of automatic triggered behaviors. And that's really where we want to look.

Right.

You really want to interrupt the behavior because that's what sets you off on doing more damage. And to do that, you start to look for these moments, okay, where did I contribute to this problem? Or this turning into an argument hangover? And now I want to come to Jocelyn and not tell her, here's what I realized that you need to stop doing.

Right. Right.

It's really about first looking at your own pattern. So I come to Jocelyn and say, hey, in reflection, I realized that for me, a trigger is when you relate to me like my dad or how my dad acted, or you raise your voice. You raised your voice, or you turned and went out the room. Now, what I'm saying is, I'm not saying you have to change this. I'm saying it happens to be a trigger for me. So what I can now do is make a request that we make an agreement for times of conflict. Hey, I noticed that. That's a trigger for me. I like to make an agreement for both of us that we don't just turn our back and walk out of the room. We don't relate to each other as our past parents behaviors either.

Yeah. And the agreements piece, I just want to underline. That is so key. You know, we really recommend, and we talk about this in the book, like having a game plan for how you handle conflict. And that includes having agreements. And agreements aren't. Okay, I'll try not to yell at you. Okay, I'll try not to storm out of the room. If we identify those are triggers for each other, and we just know it's not going to lead to a constructive conversation. We are agreeing, as in giving our promise, giving our word. Just like when you share your vows with each other. And so that has really helped us and so many couples be held accountable to your agreements as if you are truly giving your word to something.

Yes.

No, it is kind of giving yourself some boundaries. Like, this is going. This is crossing the boundary of having healthy communication. And, you know, that's the thing, because. And I heard you talk about several different things, like one being avoidance. You talked about Erin walking away. Cause I do think for some people, that's how they grew up in their house. It was, well, if you just walk away, blow off the steam, you don't really have to deal with it. It's fine. And really, it's just, you know, like the term brushing it under the rug and Just acting like it's gonna be okay. And we know avoidance doesn't. Doesn't solve anything. So maybe that's an agreement that a couple has. Is like, when you start to feel that resentment towards me, or you're angry or sad or whatever it is, you're gonna, in a very calm fashion, come and talk to me about it. You're gonna tell me that this has made you feel this way. And, you know, and on the flip side, the yelling. I love that you guys talked about that because I do think when you have grown up in an atmosphere where that's how conflict seem to be resolved, it can become a go to because it's just all, you know, And I'm not even trying to just act like, oh, we're gonna blame everything with our conflict issues on our parents. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying we are a product of our environment, and we often, even though we recognize as children. I don't like this, and I don't think this is healthy. We can just so easily fall into it. And so I think what I hear you both saying is just being. You know, you talked about reflection, and that's being mindful. Just be really mindful. And I think so much of conflict happens because we go on autopilot, because we just follow, like you guys said, following the emotions. And, like, that's when it gets out of hand. And that's why you have this argument hangover, because it's just. It's like this snowball effect and it's getting worse and worse. So I love how you guys giving these practical steps of reflecting and deciding on what are those agreements. It just really gives people very practical things they can actually do today. Like, if this is their current reality, they can do today to have better resolutions to their disagreements in the future, because they're gonna happen. Like you said. I mean, everyone has conflict. Just because you have conflict doesn't mean you're not a good match or something or that you're doomed. I mean, this is part of life.

Yeah. But.

Yeah, if I could jump into. I got excited by something you said. Sorry to jump in.

No, go for it.

The avoiding factor. You know, from all the couples that we talk to, we. We found that if they really did avoid conflict, we actually have a quote in our book that avoiding conflict in the short term because it seems like, ooh, that's the better thing to do. It doesn't ruin our Saturday.

Right?

Yeah, right. That was you. In the long term, avoiding conflict turns into resentment. And resentment is what feels harder to even repair. And so we talk about, actually, I think it's the second to last chapter where we talk about the four communication personality types. And Aaron falls into a reserved communication personality. It's called reserved inflexible. We won't go into this too long because that'd be a whole other topic. But that was his pattern. And what he thought was, oh, this is better because I'm not doing the yelling. And what it did though, was it isolated me and it left things unresolved and it created more potential for resentment. So I just really love that you address that because you want to avoid not conflict, but you want to work to keep the conflicts from getting escalated and then work to repair faster. Like that's the whole thing that we're trying to create in the argument hangover is learn to fight fair and fight smarter and learn how to truly repair afterwards.

Yeah, yeah. Last thing for all my reserved brothers and sisters, I really want because when we think of triggers, we think of the reactive, loud, outward reactions. But triggers can be repressive also and are more common and defaults for reserve partners. And I did that right. I just shut down and I walked away. But as Jocelyn said, that can be just as damaging. So I just want to say your triggers can be reactive as well as repressive, though both can be damaging.

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Good points. Yeah.

Listen, I, I love, I love your five R's. I think that just the practicality of once damage has been done and we're trying to get to that repair mode afterwards and I think that's where a lot of folks are. They feel like there's so much damage that's been done because we've just been in this cycle, exhausting cycle of conflict. We're in a perpetual argument hangover and we don't know how to even start to limp out of that back to a place of healing. But walk us through the five R's you guys lay out in your book. That can be part of that very practical path to healing.

Yeah, and thanks for saying that. Still it's practical that we think if it's not practical, it's not usable. It's got to be that in the moment, in the heat of it, of the emotion, it has to be something that you can actually do. So I'll do the first one. The first R is reflect, which we kind of mentioned a little bit earlier. So you can use the code word, hey, same team. Which can have you try to remember that. Okay, let's stay on the same side here. But if it gets to the point where that triggered emotion is really starting to have its way with you in a sense, then you want to request a pause. Hey, it seems like this is not very healthy right now. So like to request a pause and we're going to come back to this in 15 minutes or by the end of the day, it's important to say we're going to come back to this conversation. Now what you do on your own in reflection is think, what was the source of this for me, Was there a triggering event? What kind of trigger was this? Did I have an unmet expectation? Which on another note is often unexpressed. An unexpressed, unmet expectation. What was the source? What was the root of this? And really reflect on that. And that's really the first piece when you're in this pause.

And then the second R is to then take responsibility, which a lot of people step over. Both reflecting, but also, yeah, to really go, okay, I did play a part in this. Responsibility is not self blame. It's coming from a place of power and saying, I did have a choice in this. I could have acted differently. I could have done something here. And when you take responsibility, you actually need to get to that place. Because a lot of times in people's reflection, they're actually reflecting on where their partner is wrong. That's not a place of power. It is. I had a role in this. That's the thing you want to then go to them with for the third R, which is to then reconnect. So you've reflected, you've taken responsibility. Now you're coming to them. And one of the first things that you want to say to them is, hey, where I take responsibility is, or what I take responsibility for, your partner will be like, this is a new approach. Like, wow, you've never started a conversation with me like that.

You may fall on the floor. Yeah, well, you know what happens? What's really powerful is that if as a partner, if we can say to ourselves, I'm going to step up and be a leader for the household here, and I'm going to be the one that goes first to take responsibility, you actually leverage two really powerful principles. Number one, reciprocity, and number two, something called mirror neurons. Now, we don't have to go into that, but the reality is, if you lead with, hey, where I see I can take responsibility for this hangover or this escalating is really my tone of voice, then Jocelyn in turn, with reciprocity and mirror neurons is probably going to say, well, where I see I can take responsibility is too. So you do get to the same kind of place of I wanted her to sort of admit. But now if I can go first and take responsibility, it leads us into reconnection and an opportunity for me to also validate Jocelyn's experience. Not that I agree with the events and how it went and the activities. If I just validate, hey, and I get that the actions I took had you feel disrespected, frustrated, not heard. All of a sudden, I'm validating that perspective and we're truly reconnecting.

So then the fourth R is to remind, and that's to remind each other of what you're committed to. Because sometimes, especially if there was a lot of damage done, you can feel a little bit more insecure or like, do you know, sometimes people even wonder, do actually want to be with me? Because some of the things you said. So you're reminding each other of your commitment and your agreements. And if you're like, but Freeman's, we don't have agreements, that'll be a helpful chapter for you in the book to create those. So that's remind. And then lastly is to reconcile. And that's actually to reconcile the disagreement as an opportunity, which sounds very odd for people because mostly people think it ruined our Saturday, it ruined our vacation. You don't want to remember it that way. So you actually want to say, what's the benefit of this? Did we learn something about each other? Did we become more bonded? Did we actually heal something that we really needed to address? And so that reconciliation of the conflict as an opportunity is really a powerful close to the conversation.

I love that. And I love reconciliation. Just that word. I mean, that's what we want to do. We want to have reconciliation. And yeah, it's awesome.

And that's so rich and practical. And for those listening right now, you know, just, you know, Maya Day, we would call it rewind. People don't rewind anymore. But, like, skip back and just listen to that as many times as it takes to just learn that pattern, those five Rs, and start implementing that. And that, that very simple but powerful and practical pattern, I believe can lead you out of the, the rut that all of us can fall into. And so now Freeman's we're going to dive into the questions. So thanks for sticking around for the Q and A. I love this part of the podcast. Every episode, we answer a listener's question. Thanks. For those who send these in@nakedmarriagepodcast.com Today's question says, my husband and I have been married for 10 years. Throughout our marriage, he's gotten into working out and bodybuilding. He started using steroids to get better results for his workouts. This has put a big strain on our marriage and it's even caused us to separate a few times because I wasn't on board with it. Two years ago, he stopped using them and promised he would never jeopardize our marriage again by his drug use. But I recently learned that he was using them again because we were trying to get pregnant. And our specialist told us that his drug use was affecting his fertility. I'm struggling with figuring out how to move forward with him. This wasn't the first time he broke my heart, and I don't know if it will be the last. I'm having a hard time letting go of what I thought my future was supposed to be. So, you know, really, you know, heartbroken wife who feels like she, you know, there's been conflict here that's anchored in broken trust. And then that broken trust is having a physical manifestation and them not being able to start a family because of the steroid use, I guess, is impacting his fertility. And it seems that he's choosing this lifestyle over her, over their family, over their future. And of course, that's going to cause conflict and a really unique type of conflict. But a really good question. So thank you so much to the wife who wrote that in. So, Freemans, I'd love your thoughts. Let you go first because this is a hard one and I need time to think. So I'm just going to make you guys deal with It. Because this is a. This is a heavy one.

It is a big question. And, you know, there's a lot of different angles we could go to because there's obviously more than one source to this just, you know, this challenge. Right. Both for him and for her. And so there's definitely multiple layers. But one thing that came to mind was, and this addresses, you know, couples run into financial frustrations, you know, how we each parent and then dynamics like this, and we talk about the difference between a compliant. Yes. And a commitment. Yes. So sometimes when couples are, like, saying, okay, fine, yeah, yeah. All right, I'm not going to take that anymore. I won't take, you know, those. What do they call them?

Steroids.

Steroids, thank you, or, okay, fine, I'll stop going shopping. Right. Like, we just say things out of compliance because we don't want it to keep causing an argument. And, yes, we want to make our partner happy. So sometimes we're doing it because we want to satisfy what they're saying, but that's out of compliance. And that's not coming from a place of I'm actually committed to keeping this promise that I'm making. And so this comes back to, like, the two of you have to be people of integrity and people who are saying yes. When you're actually committed to keeping it. And you want to make sure you're discerning those. When you're having those important conversations. Anything you'd add?

Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, there's a bit of a longer process that we talk about around unmet expectations. So it does sound silly at first, but we get into places in our marriage where we do make assumptions about what our partner says, how they should be showing up. And it's like they should just know that. Right. But we really have to get down to, I think for her, there was for sure an unmet expectation, and that's what's leading to initially a disappointment and now becoming a trigger. But if we track that back, the unmet expectation, 50% of the time is unexpressed. She just wanted something in particular and hoped or assumed that he would do that. So you have to say, did I get really clear here about what my expectation was around the use of steroids and the timeline of that? So really getting that specific, because once you express it that clearly, now the other 50% that's usually missing is an agreement. Was I so clear on my expectation? And we both got it. And the timeline such that we can now create an agreement specifically. And that was probably a part of what's missing that we know now leads to over some time, an additional trigger and upset and obviously a predictable future happening. But if you track that back, all disappointments come from unmet expectations that are usually unexpressed and then usually then don't have any agreement.

So I would go there, absolutely.

It's such good advice. And I wanna add this too. And just like you said, Jocelyn, this is very layered and there's a lot that we don't know in specifics. That's the hard part of these questions is we're just hearing a little snippet of it. But, you know, this, possibly if this is something that he has relapsed to, there might be an addiction going on here, which is an entirely different kind of thing to deal with. But there is hope in dealing with that. And, you know, I wanna say this, and this goes to your reconciliation point. In light of the opportunity, I feel like if they could work through those five Rs, they might see this as an opportunity for him to have a wake up call, that these steroids are not giving him the life that he wants. Yeah, they may beef up his muscles for a time and he could maybe lift more than usual, but ultimately it's keeping him from having a child at this point. It's keeping him from his wife trusting him. It's keeping him from having the kind of marriage and family life that I know that he wants, that they had talked about wanting. So I think that if they could get to that point and she could, especially because I know her heart is really hurt because this is not the only time. This is a, you know, this is something that has become a pattern for him and for them. And so I think if they could work through this and it will take time. I just want to say again, we always say on this podcast, it usually takes longer than we ever want it to finding reconciliation, working through these issues and really old habits too, and addictions even, it's a process. It's a process that takes lots of patience, it takes lots of grace. It takes being there for each other and really, you know, saying, listen, you really, really upset me and I, I'm just so angry at you. It's really even hard for me to find the words. But I am standing by you and I want to help you get the help that you need. And I want us to work through this so we don't keep on coming back to this same issue. I don't want steroids to be the thing that comes between us. I don't want this to be the thing that keeps us from having, you know, a family and from getting along and having the kind of marriage we want to have. So I really, I encourage this couple to get the Freeman's book, the Arnie Meant Hangover. I also think this because it is, you know, a pattern. I think that bringing in a professional is always very wise too. I think reaching out to one of our marriage coaches here@xomarriage.com help would be a vital resource for you. And even if your husband isn't quite ready to talk to them, I think even if you talk to them and just have someone in your corner who can kind of help you process this before he will join you in talking with them, I think that would be a huge help as well. Would you add anything else, sweetie?

No. I mean, I think what was said is so good. And like we said, this situation, like all the situations we hear from are very nuanced and there's a lot that goes into it. But doing what we've talked about here and getting that extra help through counseling or through one of our coaches, I think could be a game changer because sometimes that third party trained, impartial voice kind of being able to come alongside you and say, let me help both of you see the situation in a new way where you can find unity, that counseling can make all the difference. So thank you for your question. Thanks you guys for listening today. And thank you to the Freemans. Listen, if you're not following the Freemans on social media, you're missing out. Yes. Because they're awesome. So, guys, before we, before we click off, tell folks where they can connect with you online. In addition, of course, to getting the Argument Hangover book. Where can people find you online?

Yeah.

And thank you so much for the kind words and for having us on your show. We love what you are up to in your mission. So we're as you said, very social, especially on Instagram. We respond to all the comments DMs, and that's meetthefreeman. So you met the Freeman's. Now meet the Freeman's on Instagram. And then also to your point about the Argument Hangover, we actually wanted to provide even more resources for couples. And so you can, when you enter your receipt number, you can get $200 worth of extra goodies and bonuses. There's a communication and conflict course, a workbook, a whole training on listening and communicating with each other. And that can be claimed atthe argument hangover.com. so those are free extra $200 worth of bonuses with your receipt number. So Instagram and the book are two great places to start, right?

That's awesome. I know you're going to have a lot of people reaching out to you and with more questions and as they I hope they get the book and work through that and also get the free goodies. That's awesome. But we just appreciate you guys. Thank you all so much for sharing your wisdom with us. And we just want you to know we are so excited about this new, new life you're bringing into the world. And I love you guys. Follow them. Meet Underscore the Freemans at Instagram because they're, I'm sure going to be sharing pics of when the baby is here and all those things. And I cannot wait. I'm so excited for you guys.

Thank you so much.