The Four Laws of Love

Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis. And the episode we've got today I've been excited about for such a long time. We are interviewing Jimmy Evans himself. If you don't know who Jimmy is, I'll give you a quick bio in just a second. But he is a world changer in the space of marriage ministry. Before we dive into his interview, my lovely wife, the brilliant and beautiful Ashley Willis is going to share a recent online review. And thank you, by the way, for those of you who are who are leaving these reviews, we read every single one of them.

We do. And it just keeps us going. I mean, it's so awesome to hear from you all and how it's helping your marriage. So if you wanna leave a five star review and tell people why you like the podcast, please do so. Today I'm gonna share one that is entitled Best Marriage Podcast and it says, my husband and I reached a very low point in our marriage right after having our first child, when the word divorce was being thrown around like nothing. After a friend of mine recommended the podcast, I decided to give it a listen. The first listen turned into a binge listen. Dave and Ashley are transparent and vulnerable with their own struggles, using their experience in their own marriage to deliver real talk. But at the same time, they are hilarious. They found the perfect balance of giving true advice in an entertaining way without lessening the seriousness of what we can struggle through in marriage. Most importantly, Dave and Ashley gave me the courage and very practical resources on how I could be the change in my failing marriage. After a couple of months of listening and applying their tips, I have seen tremendous turnaround. Divorce is no longer a word nor an option for us. And since then we have been able to laugh together again, dream together, work towards goals together, and sleep in the same bed together. Thank you, Dave and Ashley, so much. May God continue to use you both and your marriage in mighty ways, expand your territory and allow you to reach more and more couples across the world. I mean that. Thank you so much. I mean, that just makes my heart grow like five sizes. To think of what God has done in your marriage. I mean, that's amazing. And you know, that's really the heartbeat of why we do what we do. We know that we all have imperfect marriages, marriages that can improve with God's help. And that's the message we want to spread, is that, you know, even if it's one little thing that keeps on tripping us up, that we can make our marriage better and we can learn how to Communicate better, how to get closer to God together. And so thank you so much for sharing that story with us.

Yeah, that kind of encouragement really does keep us going.

It does.

It means a lot. So thank you. And it's an honor, an honor to know that, that God's used us in that way to be an encouragement to you.

Very much. Very much.

All right, guys, so it is time. I want to introduce you to Jimmy Evans. Jimmy has been really a world changing force in our life and in the lives of countless other couples. He and his wife Karen started in marriage ministry over four decades ago. They've been married for 47 years. He is the founder of Marriage Today, the ministry of which we are a part of the team and a proud part of the team. A best selling author and a pastor and the author of a brand new book called the Four Laws of Love, which is an absolutely incredible resource for your marriage. That's what we're going to be talking about today. You can find more about this book at 4lawsoflove.com. So let's dive into today's conversation.

You guys, you are in for such a treat today. We have Pastor Jimmy Evans here, the founder of Marriage Today and the legend, marriage extraordinaire, the legend himself.

We are truly honored, truly honored.

Jimmy, welcome so much to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are thrilled to have you here.

Well, I'm just honored to be here and I love you guys and I love your marriage ministry and you guys are great. Thank you.

Well, we are honored. We've learned so, so much from you and most many of our listeners have as well. Of course, you're the founder of Marriage Today. You've written Marriage on the Rock. For the last quarter century, you've been the leading voice helping all of us grow with stronger marriages. And but we want to talk to you today specifically about your new book, which is absolutely fantastic. The Four Laws of Love. Straight from scripture, what you've learned from 40 years of marriage, a quarter century of marriage ministry, distilling everything the Bible has to teach us about the laws that God himself created for marriage and how those laws navigate, help all of us navigate what marriage should be. But before we kind of dive straight into that, tell us a little bit of the backstory because your stories from early in marriage are so great. And by the way, you can hear some of these live if you go to the Gateway Church podcast or the sermons. Jimmy's doing an amazing series right now at Gateway on this book. But tell us a little bit of that origin story.

Well, Karen, And I started dating. We were 16 years old, and I was not a believer, and I was a bad guy. And. But, you know, we. We started dating, and I really fell in love with her. I mean, I really loved Karen, but I didn't know how to love her, you know? And we had a rocky dating experience. A week before we got married, she told me she wouldn't marry me because I was a bad guy. And. And that's when I received Christ. And I really didn't receive Christ because she told me she wouldn't marry me. I received Christ because I was empty. And I did everything you shouldn't do, but I did everything, you know, that I thought would make me happy. And it didn't. And so I received Christ a week before we got married. And then we got married. And even though we were Christians, we had a terrible marriage. And I was just a terrible husband. And I was dominant. I was very selfish. I played golf all the time I was working or playing golf. And my friends came before Karen. There was just no doubt about that. And so after several years of that, we almost divorced. And one night I came home from golfing. And Karen, not in a bad way, but she just confronted me and asked me to come home and be with her and be with our daughter, Julie. And I told her to get out of the house. I told her to leave. And I didn't care where she went, just to get out. And that was the night. And I know that Karen had been praying for me, but that is the night that the Lord broke through my heart. And I had read that morning. I read my Bible every day. We went to church every Sunday, but we were miserable. And I read that morning in John 16, where Jesus said, when the Holy Spirit comes, he will lead you into all truth. Well, it interested me. Well, when I told her to leave that night, I went into the living room. And that's the scripture that came back to my mind. And I thought, well, you know, the Holy. Because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do if she stayed. I didn't know what to do if she left. I just didn't know. I was lost, right? And I said, holy Spirit, teach me how to be a husband. And that. And at that moment, first of all, I had had so much anger at her for so long that the devil had used that to really deceive me. And I really believed that she was the problem and that. And I was great. I was just Mr. Wonderful, and she was the problem. I really believed that until I prayed that prayer. And when I prayed that prayer, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. And the deception came off of me. And I realized that I was just a total jerk. And the camera was wonderful. And so I apologized to her that night. And when I woke up, I don't know if it was the next morning, but it was one of the mornings after that. Every day when I woke up, I just said. And I hung up my golf clubs, by the way, and I started coming home, started spending time with Karen and Julian. But I was praying. One morning soon after that evening, we almost split up. And the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, turn to Genesis 2. And I turned to Genesis 2, and I knew he was responding to my prayer, to be a husband, teach me to be a husband. And I turned there and I started reading it. And Genesis 2, 24 and 25 just jumped out to me. But it was a funny verse, you know, just for this man. Cause a man believe his father, cleave him to his wife, all this stuff. And I thought, well, yeah, I've heard that before, like at weddings and stuff. But, you know. And the Holy Spirit said, read it again. And I read it again. He said, read it again. And I just sat there and I just read it, and I just thought, what does it mean? And all of a sudden, the four laws were there. See, when. When God created marriage in Genesis 2, God said He had created Eve for Adam. And God said, for this cause a man will leave his father and mother. Well, they didn't have mothers. See, Adam and Eve were the only two people in human history without mothers. And so when God said, the laws, the four laws of love are right there. When God said, for this cause a man will leave his father and mother, God was speaking laws into existence. Well, everything that God creates is orderly, right, and safe. Marriage is the safest relationship on earth. And people are surprised when they hear that because there are loss. Well, imagine for just a minute when God created the world in Genesis 1, that he didn't create laws. Laws of gravity, aerodynamics, thermodynamics, physics. Well, it'd be chaos. It'd be chaos, pure chaos. It would just be pure chaos. But he did. So we know when we walk outside, we're not going to drift into outer space. Because the law of gravity is not a principle. It's a law. And that means it's orderly and safe and predictable. Okay, well, when God created marriage. See, this is what the Lord showed me that morning. And that he created four laws the instant he created marriage. He spoke these laws into existence. Marriage is not complicated. Everything God had to say was around four laws of marriage or four laws of love. So the Lord showed me the four laws that morning and I violated every one of them. I didn't know that I was a lawbreaker. Marriage was just so frustrating for me and just so fearful. And if Karen would have left, I would have remarried, got a divorce again, and I would remarry and got divorced again. And you know, it's. Jesus went to the woman at the well of Samaria. She had been married five times and now she was living with the guy. Well, that's what happens when you get your heart broken enough. You just become cynical and self protecting. Right. And that's our society today. Well, the Lord showed me the four laws. Well, first of all, we were out of love. Okay? Karen forgave me the night that I apologized to her, but we were numb. You know, we did not have any positive emotions. And so I saw the four laws and realized I haven't done any of those. And I violated every one of them. Well, I started changing and I started doing the loss, which were simple. It profoundly affected our relationship. And really after, you know, a week or 10 days, we weren't deeply back in love, but we were enjoying each other. After several months, we were deeply in love.

It's huge.

And well, that was. We've been married 47 years.

Yeah.

And so 44 years ago, the Lord healed our marriage. See, when you do marriage, right, first of all, it's safe and fun. But the other thing is it gets better every year. And so 47 years later, we have a wonderful marriage. And it's not luck. Some people just think, well, I'm just unlucky. Well, this has nothing to do with it. It's like gravity. You know, if you jump off your roof, you're going to get hurt.

Yeah. Every day.

Well, it's impersonal. You know, gravity doesn't care what your name is, doesn't care if you're a man or woman. Gravity is just gravity. Well, the laws of love are just laws of love. And when you respect these, when you understand them and respect them, life is so good. And see, the other thing is this. When you understand the laws and you break one and it affects your marriage, you know what you did wrong? Oh my gosh, I just broke a law. No wonder that it was so bad. So they're simple, they're easy to follow. And these are the four laws that God created for marriage. And I want to Say what I'm saying. That is they create love. The laws create love. That's why I call the book the four laws of love is when love is present, the laws are present. When love is absent, the laws are absent. So the four laws actually create love. They maintain love and they protect love. So love is not this ethereal, mysterious thing for a lucky few. You can absolutely, every day of your life, create love in your marriage by following the laws.

I love that.

Yeah, it's so, so good. I love the subtitle, which isn't just the subtitle. It really is the heart of it. It says, guaranteed success for every married couple. And something that we say here at Marriage Today that you've said many times is every couple has a 100% chance of success. It's not this 50, 50 coin toss that society wants to act like marriage is. And looking at the real life example of how this has played out for you and Karen, I think so many couples that write us online or part of the ministry at Marriage today reaching out for help, they're in that place where you were, where they feel lost, they feel broken. And in their mind, winning is just surviving. Like, I think they believe the lie that we'll never have a great marriage. We'll never be passionately in love, but if we can just get to a place of survival. But what I love about your story, what I love about the four laws of love and God's plan for grace in all of our marriage, is that he doesn't want us to just barely get by. You and Karen went from a place of having a marriage that no one would want to now, a marriage that millions around the world want to emulate. We want to be like you guys when we grow up still. And that is such a gift.

It is such a gift. So we're going to talk about. We're not going to go into great depth of what each of these laws mean because we want you guys to get this amazing book because it really impacts how to actually live out these laws and embrace these laws to bring more love into your marriage. But we're gonna go through kind of each of them. I'm gonna say them. And then, Jimmy, we can kind of hone in on one of these if you want to. So the first law is the law of priority. The second law is the law of pursuit. The third one is the law of partnership. And the fourth is the law of purity. And, you know, we actually attend Gateway. And so we got to hear Jimmy's amazing sermon this past Weekend talking about the law of priority. And can you explain that a little bit to our listeners? Cause it's just amazing. And it's such an important part of marriage.

Well, it's the first thing God ever said. And so the law of priority is God said, for this cause, a man will leave his father and mother. Okay, well, before you get married. And the word leave means to let go of. Doesn't mean to hurt, doesn't mean to reject. It just means reprioritize. Before you get married, your closest blood kin is your parents. Your most important priority. The way you say it, well, when you get married for this cause, you have to reprioritize your life. Marriage only works in first place in real terms, okay? And so, of course, I put golf before Karen, you know, and I told Karen every day she wasn't first and was wondering why we had such terrible marriage. Marriage has to be first. It has to be before your children. It has to be before work. It has to be before friends, social media, everything. And by the way, every person that falls in love falls in love because you put each other first. See, it's a natural thing that when Karen and I, when I was 16 years old and just dumb as a box of rocks, I put Karen first for that period of time when we fell in love, I put her before my friends. I loved being with her. But as time went on, all of a sudden she wasn't first anymore. And that's when the problem set in. So God never leads us on. It's very clear that for the sake of marriage, okay, you're gonna have to reprioritize your life. Let me talk about most couples. There's the saying, the honeymoon is over. Well, what that means is, no longer are we focused on each other. Now, work, kids, other things come up. Let me talk about work and kids for spent. So, typically, men make the mistake of turning outside the marriage, okay? So they're no longer prioritizing their wives, and they begin to work and the women begin to complain. It's called legitimate jealousy. In Exodus 34:14, God says, Don't you worship any other God because your God, whose name is jealous, capital J, is a jealous God. Well, if jealousy were always wrong, God wouldn't associate himself with it. Well, jealousy is a protective emotion. Jealousy means I'm intolerant of rivalry. And you're only jealous to the degree that you love. You never get jealous over somebody you don't love.

Sure.

That's true. So you get married and your spouse begins to take the energy that he used to give you, and now he takes it to work, and you begin to complain. Karen began to complain about golf. I never ever validated her complaints. I just thought, well, she's just nagging. And so we begin to complain. And women typically will say, I want you to come home. I want you to be with me. I'm thankful that you're a good provider, but I want you to turn your heart toward home. Okay? Men say they complain about the kids. The energy. You're always worn out. The energy used to give me. You give all to the kids. And so typically, women turn to kids, men turn to work. That's typical. But it doesn't matter what you turn to. Social media can ruin your marriage. Friends can ruin your marriage. Most of the things that destroy marriage are good things. Church can destroy marriage. Yeah. See, I made the mistake when the Lord healed our marriage. Then I came into the ministry and we almost. We didn't almost divorce, but we went through a couple of years of the first church. I didn't. I never went to seminary or anything like that. I went from business into the ministry. And the first church I pastored was a thousand people. Well, I was terrified. And so I tried to be all things to all people. And we had conflict over the church. And finally I had to repent and say to Karen, I'll leave the church, but I don't wanna lose my marriage. And as soon as I put her first, our marriage began to work. And so most of the things that destroy marriages are good things out of priority. In real terms, you have to let your spouse know you're first, and I will protect you against all competition.

And that's huge.

That it really is. I mean, I know those listening. That might be the very thing that is just gonna turn your marriage around. You know, it's what you needed to hear to kind of have that 180. Cause I do think, like you said, I mean, it could be a lot of different things that we're giving that first priority to. But no matter what it is, it's totally out of the order that God has given us. If we're not putting him first, then our marriage and then everything else, you know, our kids, clearly, if we have children. But I think a lot of times, especially when it comes to kids, you know, we've had people write us and say, no, but when you have kids, they have to come first. But every time we do that as parents, it not only hurts our marriage, but it hurts our kids, too.

Absolutely. If you love your children, don't let them be the center of the universe. And you hear people say, make comments, men and women, oh, I live for my kids. Huge mistake. Your kids are gonna leave home. And you know, they're 18 years old, 19, whatever, they're gonna leave home. And the thing is this, if you forsake your marriage for your kids, how are they going to succeed in marriage? Because only thing they've seen is a rotten marriage. The other thing is when your kids leave, you're in crisis because you don't know each other. You gave up your. And by the way, bad in laws. This is where they come from. Problem in laws forsake their marriage, they over attach to their child, their child leaves home and they follow them emotionally. And then that's where in laws come from. So a good marriage, first of all, God comes first. That is not church. That's your personal relationship with Jesus. Your spouse comes second, your children come third, church fourth. You know, like that in real terms. So when our kids were growing up, Brent who president of Marriage Day, we trained them to respect our marriage. And we put them in bed at night. When they're little, we put them in bed eight or so or later. They put themselves to bed, but we let them know we ate dinner together as a family. We were with them. I prayed for them, put them to bed every night. And then they knew this is mom and dad's time. And we gave you your time. And kids are master manipulators, you know. Oh, yeah, and I want water, you know, I want to go to the bathroom. There's a monster in my room.

Well, you say they want to possess your soul.

They want, they want to possess your soul. And you say, well, you're not going to get any water in the morning. You got a diaper, use it. And if a monster's in your room, you got somebody to talk to. So just leave us alone. But see, if little kids, if little kids feel like they're the center of the universe, they'll consume you. And they don't care.

No, they don't.

They don't care how tired you are. Okay? So you have to train them to respect your marriage. And the other thing is, so Brent and Julie, our son and daughter, they both been married for over 20 years. They have wonderful marriages. Exactly what we did with them is what they do with their kids.

And it works. It's still working.

It works.

And you know, they're going to. Your kids are blessed because now they're seeing the way marriage ought to be and they're going to do with their kids and they're going to do with their kids. But when you forsake your marriage for the kids, the kids are going to leave and they do not have the resource of having seen their parents have a good marriage.

Yeah.

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Yeah, that's one of the. That's why so many couples end up with an empty nest and an empty marriage at the time. Same, same time we say because they've done exactly what you're describing and really it creates a codependent relationship with the kids or a broken in law marriage dynamic. Yeah, there's so, so much that can go wrong there. Kind of turning the page just a little bit. Talk to you say, and I love this just because I think it's funny and I think so many can relate. But every marriage, even the healthiest marriages, have those points where there's maybe a little more tension, even if it's kind of tension in a funny way. And I think it's both hilarious and practical when you talk about how you and Karen have a great marriage everywhere except in the car.

And I love it. Oh, it's true. Oh, it's true.

I just. Every time you kind of talk, you peel back the curtain and let us see that dynamic. It's so funny. But I also think that it's practical to talk about because every marriage has some of those areas where in this particular context we have a harder time finding unity. So talk us through that.

Well, you know, we're just humans and it is important that you agree and that you respect each other and meet each other's needs and all that. But when we get in the car, Karen is just bossy. I mean, she just turn here, stop. Well, she just thinks she's right about everything in the car and you know something. And it still bothers me to some degree. But as you get older in marriage, you just kind of give each other grace. So when we get in the car, we just kind of give each other grace. And so. But she'll say turn here. That's the wrong way. You know, you should have taken that you should have stopped there at that light. Now you just ran that light. It's just. It's never ending. Okay, well, Karen drives like a crazy woman. Is. She is the most aggressive driver I've ever ridden with. And Brent, her son, is the same way. She scares me to death. And so I get in the car, she'll say, we're going to take my car. She'll grab her keys and I'll go, oh, gosh, Lord help us. Lord help us. And so, oh, I get in the car, I'm so nervous. And so she'll be, you know, just going fast or, you know, doing crazy stuff. And I'll say, karen, Karen, slow down. You just sit over there and relax. It's like I haven't been relaxed since you grabbed your keys.

My life's flashing before my eyes every. Every turn. I love it. I love it.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, that's. That's so, so good.

Yes.

Well, we're gonna. We're gonna pivot just a little bit and enter into one thing we do in every episode is a Q and A time. Listeners write in just some great questions. And we've got. I mean, we've gotta take advantage of the fact that we've got the marriage man himself here to help with today's question. So if you're listening and you want to send in a question, you can send them to nakedmarriagepodcast.com and we'll have one that might get on the air. So we haven't seen this.

They're always fresh to our eyes.

So it's fresh.

So we'll dive in and I'll read this, and then we'll talk about maybe how to apply the four laws of love to this specific situation. The question says, I found you by typing in frustrated with spouse, I suppose, much like how everyone else discovers your channel. Thanks for all the work. Keep showing up. There's people like me out here thinking of leaving their marriage. And although bitterness is real, you give hope. I'm frustrated. Frustrated with my wife. Frustrated by how she spends money, how she raises kids, her inability to connect with me sexually, her insecurities, her lack of discipline and work ethic, her anxiety, her lack of faith. I don't know how else to describe what I feel besides that word at time. Fantasizing about something other than my marriage is the only thing that keeps me sane. I've listened to your podcast enough to know where I'm going wrong. The biggest challenge for me is to grow in my love for her and not Necessarily her weakness. So, you know, here you got a guy that's tired and frustrated, but he's saying, in his own admission, that he's focusing on all the negative.

The negative, right.

Instead of adoring her and pursuing her and loving her. But maybe right now he's saying, I feel so kind of tired or beat down or whatever that I'm not sure that I've got the energy to do these things. And so we've seen so many marriages like this turn around. And Jimmy, and the work that you've done and the stories you've shared, you've seen so many couples, and you were one of those couples. I mean, you were one of those couples. And so in some ways, you could be, like, talking to yourself from 46 years ago. But what would you say to this guy?

Well, everything you just mentioned is in the book. Specifically, you know, sex, everything. Understanding your spouse, all that. Let me talk about redemptive love for this minute. I don't think he's a very good husband. From what he's describing, it sounds like he's turned his heart away and that he's angry, you know, and he's saying, well, you know, we're not connecting all this stuff well. So in first Peter 2, Peter is talking about redemptive love. And what he says there is, jesus died for you when you were in your sins, and he left you an example to follow in his steps. Then, in the context of redemptive love, redemptive love means doing the right thing for a person who's doing the wrong thing. Right? Okay. So in response, the only way you can defeat a spirit is with the opposite spirit. So Jesus said, love your enemies. Okay? Why? Because if you hate your enemies, it just. There's more hate. And so do the opposite of what you feel like doing. Once he says that in 1 Peter 2, he then says, wives, husbands. He addresses wives and husbands in 1 Peter 3, talking about redemptive love. So with wives, he says, you can change your husband without a word as he observes your chaste and respectful behavior. Respect is a man's number one need, and it is so powerful to us that we will change our behavior to a person giving it to us. So it's saying, do you want to redeem your knucklehead husband? Your husband who's not doing the right thing? And that's the context. Don't yell at him. Don't use unrighteous behavior because it just makes the situation worse. You can redeem your husband without a word as he observes you Being pure and respectful toward him. Okay, now then, husbands, live with your wives with understanding. As with a weaker vessel. As a fellow heir of the grace of life, lest your prayers be hindered. Okay, so it first of all says there, love your wives with understanding. Okay, what does that mean? It means she's different. Okay, so Karen, see, a woman's number one need is security. Women need non sexual touching and affection. Women need open and honest communication. And women want leadership. They want their husband to be the leader. Not to dominate, but to lead. Those are woman's needs. Well, men don't understand that understanding. Women are completely different. If you married someone normal, they're not like you. But what happens in marriage is a lot of shaming is. We see he's talking about sex. Well, men need sex. But women get turned on by their husband loving them and sacrificing for them and talking to them and holding them and leading them. That's where women get sexually responsive. Karen asked me for years to talk to her and I thought, well, she's nosy and I'm not going to feed them monster, you know, is the information is the worst thing you give that sister. And so I'm just. I'm. I'm not doing it right. Well, then when I changed and decided to try to be a better husband, I said to Karen one day, I'll talk as long as you want to talk. And Karen. And she didn't want just talking. She wanted feelings. Right. You know?

Yeah, of course.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And. Which is. I was terrified. Yeah. But it helped me so much, you know, to talk to her and get in touch with my feelings. But so we start talking and she becomes more sexual. And I'm thinking, idiot, why didn't you do this a long time ago?

I didn't know this was foreplay.

I've been talking all the time. So going back to this guy that wrote in the question, he says, I'm frustrated. Well, so is she.

Yes.

Okay, so live with your wives with understanding. She's different than you. You have to meet the needs in her that you don't have. Okay. As with a weaker vessel. What does that mean? Be careful. If fine china. Be careful how you talk to her. Be careful how you treat her. She's precious. And she's also a fellow heir of the grace of life, which means she's an equal. Don't talk down to her. Okay. Lest your prayers be hindered. And what that means is you start being unrighteous in your behavior with your wife. God's not Gonna hear your prayers. And I'm sure that this guy's praying and saying, change my wife, you know, And Lord's saying, well, let's change you first. So redemptive love means I'm not going to react, I'm going to respond. And the way I'm going to respond is the way Jesus responded to me when I was Jesus worst enemy. He was my best friend. When I was putting Jesus on the cross. Cause my sins put him on the cross. He was dying for my sins. And so in marriage, if it's gonna be a tit for tat thing and you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. You put a knife in mine, I'll put a knife in yours. And that's the way a lot of people live. So I'm saying to this man, you're not helpless. And see, anytime a person says, well, I just feel helpless in my marriage. When you change, your marriage changes. If you're on your heels, just reacting to everything your spouse is doing, well, it is helpless. Get on the balls of your feet and wake up in the morning and treat your wife. If your wife's not doing anything right, you do the right thing, you be the best husband you can be. You love her, and I'll guarantee you now she will change in the presence of a good man.

That is so, so good. So good, guys, I'm telling you, like, if you just, just do what Jimmy's talked about for the last 20 minutes, just that your marriage will transform. And we've only scratched the surface on what's in the four laws of love the last couple minutes. Want to do this? First off, sweetie, I want to give you a chance to weigh in from the wife's perspective. Like, what can this guy and all of us husbands do to really make. Make a wife feel loved? And then, Jimmy, I want to let you share any final words that you want to share. And then we're going to close out just by letting you guys know where you can get this book, the Four Laws of Love, which every one of us, every one of us needs. Whether you've been married for six months or 60 years, we've all got stuff to learn, and there is so much gold in here.

So, sweetie, yes, No, I. You know, I remember and I've shared on this podcast many times and in our online videos. But, you know, I went through a period where I had anxiety. I mean, he listed anxiety as one of the things he's really frustrated about. And I know you can relate to that, sweetie, especially if you you know, as someone, this husband, I don't think he's probably ever experienced that. And so it frustrates him that she has anxiety, and therefore it's affecting how she is in the home. Right. And, you know, one of the things you mentioned about, you know, maybe they're not having sex regularly when you have anxiety, whether you're a man or a woman, that completely squashes your sex drive. And so I would just say, especially when it comes to that, like, help her get the help that she needs. And that's not by banging her on the head, saying, like, you need to read this book, or you need to get to your counselor. But just being loving and being a listening ear. Like what Jimmy said about the feelings, I just can't put enough emphasis on that. And, like, the many nights that I woke Dave up and I didn't even know what he would say to me because that's not what I was looking for. But I was looking for someone to just hold me while I cried, or to just rub my back when I just felt so weak, or when I just ran to the bathroom because I felt physically ill from my anxiety. It's like, that's what we need. We need someone in our corner who's not saying, I'm frustrated with you, but who's saying, listen, I don't know how this feels, but I love you in spite of how you're feeling right now. And I wanna be in this corner with you. And I'm telling you, just doing that thing and showing her that you're supportive and that you're not judging her, but that you see the best in her. I mean, sometimes we need our spouse to call out the truth that God says about us. That we're a masterpiece, that we are not damaged goods. That we're not gonna just be this way our whole life. You know, there were so many nights where Dave would pray with me and he would just say, you know, we're claiming this healing, and we're praising you in advance of the healing that you're doing in Ashley. And in the same way, I encouraged his husband to pray for his wife, to say, lord, I am so frustrated right now. Help me to rise above these feelings and be the husband I need to be. Help me to exhibit that redemptive love that Jimmy was talking about. Because I can't do it in my own strength. I need your strength. And I'm telling you those prayers and those moments of intimacy. Cause that's really what it is. That's an intimate moment when you're both being so vulnerable. Her saying, I'm dealing with anxiety. I feel this certain way, and I can't really get through my day. And you saying, I've been frustrated, but I know that I'm kind of lost in my feelings, and I don't want to let this hurt our marriage. But I'm here for you. Let's get through this together. Those kind of intimate moments where you're connecting with each other and with the Lord, those are moments that you're gonna look back on after you do this time and time again and you start to get that healing, you're gonna look back on that and say, wow, that was really hard. I don't know if I necessarily wanna go through that again, but I know that God taught me that we can get through anything together with God's help. And so I just wanna encourage you to start doing those things that you don't feel like doing but you know are the right thing to do. And you will see God do a miraculous work in your marriage.

So, good, good. Pastor Jimmy, any final words of wisdom for us?

Well, hope, you know, there's just. There's always hope in God. And the Four Laws of Love book is the culmination of 47 years of marriage and 40 years of marriage ministry. It's the best book I've ever written. It's the most important book I've ever written. And it gives people hope and skills, specific skills in the book. There are four sections in the book, four chapters per section, and they're all about the laws. And it just gives you very practical information. Sex, communication, children in laws, money, everything is in the book. And so it gives you hope. We all fear what we don't understand. And a lot of people today are fearful and feel hopeless regarding marriage. It's the safest relationship on earth. You have a 100% chance of success in marriage when you do it God's way. And God's way is not complicated. And so I just encourage people get the book, and I promise it'll help you. And the other thing, too is you may have a child about to get married. If your child's in high school or college, they need to read the book. It'll help them tremendously to understand marriage. Maybe someone that they know is struggling in their marriage or something, and you can save a marriage by getting a person the book. So I hope this is encouraging to people.

And just. Just to echo that, we've. We've read a lot of marriage books over the years, and. And I would Say that apart from the Bible itself, the Four Laws of Love might be the most significant and potentially life changing book you could read for your marriage. And so get this book. You can get it at, @4lawsoflove.com or anywhere books are sold. Also want to invite you to our live exo marriage conferences where all year Pastor Jimmy is going to be teaching through our tour. Our tour stops all year on the Four Laws of Love and you can hear him live and, and, and get a book there as well. But don't wait till then to get a book. Get the book right now.

And it's also available on audible.com. yes. And so if they want it on, if they want to listen to it, they can go to Amazon or Audible and get it there. That's insane.

And Jimmy himself narrates it.

Yes.

And I could listen to Jimmy narrating the phone book and get something out of it.

Yes.

And so this is a, this is a treasure to be able to hear him narrating this book. So again, you can get that on Audible. Find us@xomarriage.com for those live events and marriagetoday.com, the Ministry Jimmy and Karen founded that we're honored to be part of, that team with just a whole bunch of marriage resources for you there. So guys, thank you so much for listening. Thank you for those of you who help support this ministry, for, for those who subscribe and let others know about it. Thank you, Pastor Jimmy, for your wisdom and for the life changing impact you've made in our marriage, in our life, but in the millions, millions of others as well.

That's right. Thank you so much for being here. And those of you listening, thank you so much for listening. We will see you next time.