The Key to Healthy Conflict

Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, we are interviewing such a precious couple today that has so many great things that you can learn about your marriage. But also, we. There's a story they share that literally will have you rolling, so you have to listen till the end.

They're so funny.

It is epic. And I just want to say handcuffs are involved. That's all I'm saying.

They are. Yeah.

All right.

And the tsa.

And the tsa. And the tsa. I mean. I mean, it's the best. I wish we had this story because.

It'S full of condoms and, well, we.

Don'T want to give too much away.

Well, there was.

There's some stuff.

There's some stuff. All right.

Yeah, you go ahead.

Before we dive in, I want to share. You guys have been so gracious about doing reviews. We ask you guys to do that, and, man, have you guys delivered. Today we have a review from Melanie Faith, and it says this. It says this podcast is so encouraging. I've been married for two years now, and it was hard to find Christian wisdom on tough marriage topics when my husband and I first got married. When I stumbled upon this podcast, I was so excited hearing wisdom from Dave and Ashley. Ashley is just awesome. I love that they don't shy away from tough topics, and they also make talking about marriage just so much fun. Thank you for providing this podcast. It is by far my favorite.

Wow.

Wow, Melanie, thank you so much. And, guys, if you love this podcast, like Melanie, please just go to Apple. It's a great place to leave a review. And just real quick, leave a quick review. You don't even have to write anything long. But just, you know, if it's something that you love, it's the best way to spread the message of the Naked Marriage Podcast. And when you do that, you're helping more marriages. And so thank you, guys.

Yes. And the vast majority of people listen to this podcast on Spotify, itunes. And that's great. But you may not know we put these episodes on YouTube where you can watch. And today would be a great one for you to watch because it's a video interview again with our friends Jeremy and Cory Isaacs. You'll be able to see them all. You'll be able to see Ashley's amazing fashion sense. Right?

I don't know.

Her hair is looking stunning today. You've got this adorable, just whole ensemble put together.

Well, thank you, sweetie.

I know. I mean, the fashion people of the world, you need.

I'm glad you think so. That's all that matters.

Because you're a trendsetter.

I don't know about that, but.

But you can't. You can't see all of that on itunes. Right?

So where can they go on YouTube to watch this?

So go to YouTube. There are two different channels where you can see our content. The first is the XO Marriage channel, where we're putting out content there outside of the podcast all the time, along with others. It's a great channel. And then the Dave and Ashley Willis channel on YouTube is where you can get the Naked Marriage podcast. So check those out. All right, we're going to dive into today's episode with our friends Jeremy and Corey Isaacs. They pastor Generations Church in Canton, Georgia. They are the parents of four kids. They've been married almost 20 years, and they're the authors of the new book, you, Marriage Matters. We were honored to write the foreword for that book. And you're going to love this conversation, so let's dive in. Well, friends, like we said in the introduction, we're super excited to have our friends Jeremy and Corey Isaacs here on the podcast, pastors of Generations Church, authors of an awesome new book. And they're just. They're just great people. And so you're going to enjoy this conversation. We're going to have a lot of fun. Jeremy and Corey, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having us. We're really excited to be here.

Honored to be here.

Tell us. We always like to start. Start with this, like, go back in time. I'd love to hear the story of how you guys first got together, the. The origin of this epic love story. So how'd you meet, like, at first?

Yeah, so Corey and I met at church youth camp. So that's just a plug for everybody to send your kids to camp. You never know who they're going to meet. But we met when we were 13 years old. And so the story that I tell is I was walking this way down the sidewalk, and she was walking this way with her friends down the sidewalk. She passed by and I started following her. And I've been following her the rest of our lives. But, yeah, 13, 13 at church camp became just great friends, best friends, eventually. And that was the day of, like, AOL Instant Messenger. And so we would, like, send messages because we lived about an hour, hour and a half apart. And so we would just kind of communicate from a distance through our Teen years. We didn't ever really date except for a really brief three month period when we were 16. But long distance at 16 is pretty tough, you know, so that didn't, it didn't last. But we stayed friends and then we both ended up at the same college. I was actually sitting in a class one day and she came. She had gone to a community college her freshman year. So she came on like a campus visit. And I looked across the way and I was like, oh my gosh, there's Corey. I didn't know she was coming. And she came over the apartment I cooked for that night, me and my roommate. I made the best macaroni and cheese you've ever tasted in your whole life. Yeah, and so then while we were in college together, we were just best friends, honestly. Like, I would go on dates, she would go on dates, and then we would like leave our dates and then eventually come back and just hang out together. We were just best friends. And I was working at a church and kind of, long story short, our pastor called us to like this season of fasting to start the year. And I wasn't fasting for Corey, I wasn't fasting for a wife, but I was just kind of fasting for the future and God's plans for my life. And her fast ended a few days before mine. And I was sitting at her apartment, she was putting away her groceries in her. In her cabinets. And I had the most like romantic rom com line ever come in my head. I was like, I want her to put my cans away the rest of my life. And so my fast ended on a Friday. We went on our first date on Saturday to, oh, Charlie's. I had loaded potato soup, if anybody's wondering. And then on Tuesday I called my mom and I was like, hey, I need you to help me find a ring. Because I knew. And so that's my side of the story. But yeah, that was, that's kind of our, our love story.

I love it.

Would you add anything else, Corey?

No, I. That was it. I mean it was, it really was just best friends. And then when God saw fit, kind of changed both of our hearts. And it's been incredible. It's something's really special to be married to your best friend. Yeah, so.

Oh, it is.

It really is.

Yeah.

That's so awesome.

I love that.

And how long have you guys been married?

So just over 19 years. It'll be 20 years this year.

Oh, it's a big one. That's awesome.

I definitely look that old. She does Not.

Yeah, yeah.

It'll be 20 years later this year.

20 years.

Oh, my goodness. That's so exciting. I love hearing that. And I mean, to know each other since you were 13, I love it. So cool. And, you know, kind of growing up together. I mean, you're growing up together and growing in the Lord together. I just love that. And I know that you guys, you know, you're pastors and you work together in that capacity, but also you have this amazing book.

And I love your marriage matters.

Your marriage matters, which I love the.

Title and we were honored to write the forward for it. And I'm like, this is great stuff. I mean, I. I learned a lot and was encouraged by. To tell us.

Yeah.

Tell us about, like, what motivated. What the inspiration was behind. Behind the book.

Yeah. So Corey and I come from two different contexts of marriage. I'll even. I'll let her share her side of this in a second. But, I mean, we come from two totally different perspectives. And so since we've known each other so long, one of my favorite things is that I've known her younger sister since she was, like, in grade school. I mean, I've. I've got a large context of her family life, even in our, you know, our personal history. And so my parents were married until my mom passed away a few years ago. Like, my parents were happily married. I never heard them argue. I found out later they did, but their code word was, let's go discuss the budget. I just thought they were really diligent with our family finances and. But I never heard that. So I thought, this is what marriage looks like. She was raised by a single mom. Totally different perspective. So when we got married, we had a lot of learning to do. And so we. Because we had that friendship foundation, it allowed us to kind of lean into what marriage would look like for us, kind of drawing from and then even charting our own course. And so over the years in ministry, we've been able to do premarital counseling and speak at some marriage events in our own church and in other churches. And eventually we just said, hey, let's take some of these thoughts from these unique perspectives and kind of put them into one, you know, one format and see if it wouldn't help other people. And. And that was really the catalyst for the thought is just take what we had already been sharing what we had been learning and. And really try to see. And we tell a lot of crazy stories about ourselves, things we've done, things we wish we wouldn't have done, but to just Say, like, hey, every marriage has its challenges. Every marriage has, like, its matters, things that you do, but that your ultimate marital story is telling this larger story. And I think that was the heart behind it.

Absolutely. I think two things contribute to the book. One, I grew up. Jeremy had the example of marriage in his home, a very healthy, good marriage. And mine came from external factors.

So.

So the Lord in his goodness to me. My mom kept me in church. My mom had been married. I'd never met my biological dad. My dad, the dad that adopted me, took his own life when he. I was nine years old, but my mom kept me in church. And God captured my heart at an early age. And then there were these incredible pictures of marriage within my church. And I remember it was never one of those things that I would go up to these couples and say, like, hey, I'm watching you, or, you know, like, you're my example. It was really just by just watching the way they did life, watching the way they talked to each other, the way they treated each other. You know, being in a youth group with the church, I'd go to some of their homes and see how they'd interact with each other. And I remember just wanting, desiring that. And. And God really was kind of put those pictures of marriage for me there. And so that was a big part of this book is saying, like, whether you saw a healthy picture of marriage or not in your home or if you saw it outside, God still can redeem all of those pieces and you can have what. What God created for your marriage. I think the second thing was really saying that, like, although Jeremy is my best friend, before we ever got married, my relationship with Jesus was first. And so our marriage is now centered around Jesus. I know who I am in Christ. He knows who he is in Christ. Which allows our marriage, I think, to like, filter all things through that, which I think helps as well, which is part of the book as well.

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Yeah, I love that. And just that, that foundation in Christ together and being, you know, I hear a lot of people describe it this way, like two whole people entering into marriage. Two whole individuals worshiping the Lord and keeping him first in your lives and then coming into the marriage. And that's, that's, you know, those who are, we have a lot of listeners who actually aren't married or maybe have been married, but want to marry again one day. And I think that gives them, you know, something to look to. Like, a goal to go for is to heal and to have that wholeness. But, Corey, let me tell you, I love that you're speaking so openly and honestly about how some of us have backgrounds that, you know, like you said, it wasn't in our home, like the healthy marriage that we, that we have seen in our lives. It wasn't in our home. And I think some people when, when they go into marriage or have even the desire to marry, and then they get in their marriage and they're kind of disillusioned. They feel like, well, am I doomed? And I love how you're speaking so boldly saying, no, no, no, like, you know, God uses everything and we all backgrounds, but we can still, you know, have a thriving marriage now. We've got to learn things. We've all got to heal. And, and I would even say even if you did grow up in a home with a healthy marriage, there's still things we all have to work through.

Absolutely.

And because, you know, you are two individuals coming together, your marriage isn't going to look just like any of the marriages you've seen because God's called you to your marriage. And I just love how you all are offering people hope, you know, in that way. And I will say, I will say I was reading your book and I love how you guys go through everything, anything and all things, you know, marriage. And like you said, you share a lot of personal stories, but there was one line when it came to communication that really stuck out to me and you were talking about how, like, when you're in conflict or just in a stressful season, and I can't remember which one of you said this, but it was to the effect and I. If I get this wrong, please correct me. It said something to the effect of like, if everything is a big deal, then when you really do have something big that you need to address, it's hard to even know that it's a big deal. Am I saying that correctly? And you probably said it much more poetically than I said it.

That's a mantra for Corey. Yeah.

Yeah. That really kind of started raising children. I am by nature just a very laid back individual. I mean, almost to a fault, you know. And so it was one of those things that as the kids were getting, like, growing up and what I would focus on as a parent, it really became like, I don't know that everybody has like this like, like home values, but it really did become kind of like a parenting filter value for me that if I make everything a big deal, then what do my kids know to focus on? So for me, ye. It was if. If spilling the milk on the carpet gets the same kind of level of my attention as telling a lie, then in their heads, as they mature, those are equal playing fields and they're not at home.

Yeah.

And you've got to decide those. Those things look different in everyone's home. And so for us, those were just one of the examples. And so really trying to filter, like, what are the important things, like, what do we hold true to that we don't compromise on? Those are what get our attention. Everything else may need correction or may need like some like, correction, I guess would be the best way to say it, but. And then what gets discipline and what gets attention? What gets conversation? And the same is true in our marriage. I mean, if I make leaving the coffee cup that frustrates me on the table out the same as being dishonest, like, you know, then. Then you don't know. You're fighting about things that are trivial, that don't matter. And so really trying to find out, like, what are the things that we value even in our marriage and. And let's have conversation and discussion and really dive into those things and everything else we can kind of figure out along the way.

Yeah. And the phrase there, which I love, and again, she lives this out, is if we make everything a big deal, then nothing's a big deal. Right. And it is this idea that we've seen it in advertising, marketing, like, if everything's in bold font, you don't know what to focus on. If everything has the same. And so, I mean, it really has been kind of a guiding principle in our home, both from our marriage into our Parenting, even into our ministry, like, what are the things that we truly value? And if we focus on those things, like, it. It is. It is guiding, and it helps to keep us on, you know, on the right track.

Right.

No, I just love that. That really. I mean, there's so many things that stuck out to me. But you're right in marriage and in parenting, because I do think there's a lot of couples that write us, and I know you guys, too, in the work that you do, you probably hear from couples in this dynamic that they just feel like they're constantly in a fight, like, over every little thing. And I think just hearing kind of that mantra, so to speak, like, saying, like, we're going to believe this, and so we're going to sit down and as a couple and decide what are the big things? And then we're gonna be willing to not make a big deal about these other little things, to choose our battles wisely. You know, that's kind of a phrase that's thrown around a lot. I think that that will help people to have so much more peace. Right. And perspective.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, even early in our marriage, we had to learn that we did.

Not everything's a huge deal. I think just that that simple truth right there could be so clarifying for so many couples who are listening where you. You get in this negative spiral and you realize part of the reason why is we're making everything a big deal.

Yeah.

And then when we really do have something big deal, we don't have a way to differentiate that when everything has been a crisis. And so, yeah, so we could all. We could all stand to take one of Corey's chill pills.

That's exactly right. That's exactly the other thing that I love. And she's really the one that kind of brought this to our marriage and really helped to create language around this for us. Is like, is this a preference or is this a principle? Because sometimes our com. Our communication, our conflict, like, it was. I'm arguing about, or really, like, adamant about something specific. But that's just the way I prefer it. It's not a principle that we're going to build our marriage on, our family on. It's not something that's worth an argument. We met an old couple one time, and one of our favorite things to do is when we meet a couple that's been married just, like, a lot longer than us, we'll say, hey, what's the secret sauce? Like, what's the. And she's like, we'll kiss Each other on the lips every day. And I'm like, oh, that's so sweet. And I asked him. I was like, hey, how do you stay married? And he was like, just don't fight about dumb stuff, you know, Like. Like, it's just not worth it. I don't have the energy for that anymore. Like, is it a preference or is a principle? And. And ultimately, like, if we kind of find those things, because what we found to be true in our marriage and in other couples that we do life with and we've walked with or we hear from, like, ultimately, you fight about or argue about or have conflict around a lot of the same things. Like, you. You have those things that you just keep coming back to. And if you could determine, like, hey, that's actually just a preference, and we can agree to disagree, or we can find a way to coexist around those preferences, then that will probably remove a certain percentage of the things that you argue about or have conflict about. And I think that's just a huge piece of developing healthier communication skills.

Yeah, totally. I love that. I would love to hear. I know you guys share a lot of stories, but what is your. And we don't want to give too much away. What's your favorite story that you guys shared in the book? And if you want to share a little bit of it, we'd love to hear it.

Do you have a favorite? I've definitely got a favorite.

Okay.

I mean, I've got a couple.

You go ahead.

Yeah. So I think one of my favorite stories for sure came 24 hours after we got married. You know, we'd been friends, and so we have all these, you know, all these experiences leading up to it, but we get married, and we're in the ceremony still, and I think we should.

Probably go back to say, like, we were young.

Yeah.

I was this very shy, you know, quiet kind of girl.

Yeah. And in our. In our ceremony, all of my groomsmen were not that.

Yeah.

And they decided to be funny. And so they're walking down the aisle of Corey's home church. My grandparents, who. The word we would use is, like, they're holiness people. They never cut their hair, never went to movies, you know, but, like, they're sitting right there. And all of my groomsmen would shake my hand, and they had a condom in their hand. And so now I'm standing in the front of the church, and I'm trying to hold, like, a half a dozen condoms, so I'm slipping them in the side of my pants and so after the ceremony, they send our like 5 year old little nephew up with a pair of handcuffs. And so now we're taking pictures. I'm trying to put handcuffs in one side and condoms on the other side. So we get to the, to the, to the reception and I got these things like eating into my thigh in these tuxedo pants that are just paper thin almost. So I slipped them into the side of one of the bags that we're going to use to leave. And so we put that bag in the limo. Later we go to the hotel. The next day we go to the airport. I haven't thought another thing about it. This is not too long after 9 11. Corey has taken off, off her shoes and her belt. She's making sure nothing goes off on the X ray. And she puts her bags up on the X ray machine thing. It goes through and they, they take her bag and they say, ma', am, is this your bag? And she was like, yes. Well as soon as they ask, I start laughing because I'm thinking she's got handcuffs in the side of this bag.

And before I knew it, I was surrounded.

Yeah. The police came, the security came, multiple.

Police officers and oh my God, the.

Lady eventually reaches into the bag and grabs the handcuffs. She's holding them like over her head. Corey is mortified. She was like, those aren't mine. Well, now it looks like I've brought handcuffs to our, you know, honeymoon without telling her or whatever. And I'm like, I'm sorry, my groomsmen are idiots.

Yeah.

She was like, I don't even know how to use these. They're obviously not mine. And I'm like, I've got.

But I'm willing to try. I'm willing to get adventurous.

I mean, you know, is there an owner's manual in there? I'm not really sure what's in the bag, you know. And so we, the lady's like, oh, it's fine. These are, these are fake. Anyway, there's a little safety release right here. And Corey's like, well you can keep them. I don't, you know, she, that, you know. So we take those, we turn around and my parents boss is standing right behind us. And I'm like, awesome, this is great. So that's one of my favorite stories. It's just like, just crazy, crazy things that have happened in our marriage. And you got to be able to laugh at yourself a little bit.

It definitely differentiates like there's a wedding and there's a marriage.

Yeah.

And it, that was like we had the wedding. That's marriage, you know, like, oh yeah. Now we got to figure out like we're dealing with each other's stuff.

That's exactly right. That's exactly well. And this is not even, like, not too long after that. I told you. My parents never fought. They never argued in front of us. And so, I mean, we're a couple days into marriage and we have like this first argument and I called my dad. I was like, I. I don't think it's gonna make like. I think we. This may not work out, but Corey grew up in a home with sisters and a single mom. Like, they argued all the time. It was a love language, you know, and so we talk a lot about that kind of stuff in the book. Just, you gotta laugh at yourself and you gotta be willing to laugh at yourself. Yeah.

Real life, it's. I love it. That's so great.

It's so good. I'm excited about your next book about, you know, different things you can do with handcuffs about.

It's a whole different book. That's a whole different, Whole different wing.

Of your ministry that gets to take off. That's exactly right. Corey, what about you? What's a, what's a story you like?

Oh my goodness, there's. There's so many. I mean, any of the, the. The stories that really are about, you know, the everyday life kind of things are, are my favorite in the book that are just the, the real life. I mean we did. We loved the wedding, we loved the marriage, we loved the honeymoon. We love all of those things. But any of the stories that really do encapsulate everyday life are, are my favorite. Just bring it to because I mean, I think it's easy to focus on, you know, these big moments. But really most people, it's the day to day life that they're struggling with. You know, kids, family. And so when you can bring the realness to that and even humor to it, we do an event here at the church and we tell people all the time, like we gather around round tables to laugh about what people are at home crying about. It's not to minimize what people are doing. It's saying like, you find commonality when you get together and talk about marriage with other people to realize like your struggle isn't like necessarily by yourself. Like other people struggle with the same thing you're struggling with in your marriage too. And so like, you know, then you get around and you tell these funny stories that don't necessarily seem funny at the time. But then you begin to laugh about them, and you can kind of take a deep breath and go, okay, everybody has some similar issues or struggles with some of the same things. And so any of the stories in the book that were written that really do bring just like, this everyday, real life approach are my favorite to write and to read.

Yeah, I love that. And I love how, you know, we're similar to you guys in the fact that we're all raising four kids. And, you know, we all know that. We know it's a lot. And I love how real you guys are about that. And I know for Dave and I, and we've shared in some of our books, too, some of our. Some of our first arguments were around disciplining kids and just trying. Just feeling exhausted. I mean, you guys referenced that just being in that season of just running ragged and just trying to, you know, find each other in the midst of all that and keep your marriage, you know, at the forefront, but also wanting to raise great kids who love the Lord and. And you guys are doing that, and you're. And you're just so real about it. And I think that people who read this book, they're gonna, like, they're gonna have so many moments, Corey, like what you're talking about, where they are gonna be like, oh, my gosh, I'm not the only one. Oh, I can get through this. And, you know, I've never thought about that before. I should try that. I think that would work with our family, too. And I just. I love how. How real and raw you are, but also how practical you guys are. And you do such a great job of that and this book.

Well, I appreciate. You know, my. My favorite scripture in. In especially in the New Testament, my favorite scripture comes from First Corinthians 10:13. And it says there's no temptation, you know, that seizes you or that you face, except that which is common to man. But God is faithful, not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but will provide a way for you to stand under it or a wave escape, depending on your translation. But I love the first few words there. It says there's no temptation. Like there's nothing that you face except what is common. And so, so much, so much of the enemy's tactic is to get you to isolate, to pull back, to hide in shame like Adam and Eve in the garden, and to convince you that you can't talk to anybody, that nobody's struggling with what you're struggling with. Nobody's faced what you're facing, and to make you feel unique and abnormal in your struggles. And one of the things, not just in the book, but just in. In the way that we live. You know, Corey. Corey has said before, you know, people have said, oh, you're so genuine or you're so authentic. She was like, I don't know how to be any. Like, this is just who I am, you know, like, just telling our story and, you know, that kind of thing. But I do feel like that when people recognize, you know, whether it's through the book or hearing other people like, you guys, your podcast, other, like, oh, other couples struggle with that, or, oh, other husbands say those dumb things, or other wives or that they think the same way. It does give us a sense of, like, oh, okay, so maybe we are a little more normal, even in our struggle, than we would recognize so that the enemy can't cause us to think, like, oh, well, we're so broke and nobody's as messed up as we are. There's no hope for us. There is hope because there is some communal aspect to what we're experiencing. And not everybody needs to know your junk, but probably somebody needs to know your junk just to recognize, like, no, I can't. I can open up, and when I do, I'm gonna find that, you know, confess your sins one to another, that you may be healed. Like, there's some healing and just sharing in the commonality of our struggles and our successes. And when we do that, we draw a lot of comfort, I think, at least. At least for us. When we. We hear other couples say, oh, this is what we're going through, or this is what we have walked through, we go, oh, okay, so we've done that, too. So we're not the only ones. And so that. That does provide a lot of, you know, for each of us, I think, some comfort and some encouragement, some strength that we draw in our marriage. I love that.

Love it. There's so much hope in that message, and you guys are the real deal. And just the way you minister to others and you point people back to God's truth, and you do it with grace and with authenticity. And so many people are impacted by your ministry and will continue to be. And this book is another extension of that. So I encourage everybody to go get this book. But, Jeremy, Corey, tell people where they can find you guys online, you know, where they can get the book. I mean, Amazon, of course, but anything you want our listeners to know about how they can get more of the Isaacs family.

I really thought a second ago you asked me my favorite story. I was in the book. I really thought Jeremy was going to do the whole Reflexology essential oil story as his favorite.

That's true.

So I'll leave it at that. I won't go into too much detail about that one. I thought that that one was going to be his favorite and so he can tell you where you can get the book to find out more about that.

Yeah, when you buy the book, it helps me just try to recreate that. And I've invested in as many essential oils as I can for the. The way that it impacted my wife physiologically. But no, yeah, we. I mean, we would love just to connect. We're both on Instagram and Facebook. Your marriage matters. And then the book is available on Amazon. But yeah, any way we can help. We would love to connect and help people and marriages.

That's great.

Well, you guys are a joy and a gift. And guys, if you're listening and you happen to live anywhere near Canton, Georgia, go check out Generations Church and meet these amazing people in person. But if you're somewhere else in the world, there's plenty of ways to get connected to their ministry online and get this book. You will enjoy it. The stories are gold, the wisdom is gold, and these two people are pure gold. So, guys, we love you and we thank you and just pray God continues to bless your beautiful family and your ministry and. And we hope to get to hang out with you again real soon.

Thanks so much, you guys too.