Through Thick and Thin

Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi, there.

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I'm fine, honey.

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Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And, you guys, we have come to the end of our series, Back to the Basics. I know Dave's doing a tear. A little teardrop. If you're watching us on YouTube, you saw it. This has been so fun, and I hope you guys have enjoyed it. We wanted to do this because we feel like the longer we're married, sometimes we lose sight of the basics. Like we lose sight of those vows we made on the day that we were married. And so today, we are doing in sickness and in health and till death do us part, because they really go hand in hand.

They do. They go hand in hand. So we're fusing those two together instead of making it two separate episodes, because really, with all of these, with every one of these, the till death do us part is kind of. It's built into it, right? It's for better or for worse, Till death do us part. It's in sickness and in health. Till death do us part. It's forsaking all others. Till death do us part. All of these are a lifelong commitment, and so doing it for life is. Is the goal. And I felt like that's kind of what we talk about all the time. So we would combine it with this last one, in sickness and in health, which is maybe. Maybe the toughest of the vows. Because when one of you or both of you are sick, it's really difficult to, you know, to. It's hard to serve your spouse when you yourself can't physically do certain things. And it's hard to be a caregiver for a long length of time, right? And almost every marriage is going to have this in different seasons. We've experienced this in lesser degrees already with some different health challenges. You know, I've got a thyroid disorder, this autoimmune thing that impacted my energy level and lots of other stuff. And Ashley walked with me through that, and thankfully, I'm good there. But we know that in the future, we most likely will face bigger things, maybe Debilitating things we've seen in our own parents. My father, in recent years, has had some major setbacks. He's had. He's had cancer. He's had an embolism that almost killed him. He had a staph infection in his knee that had him in a wheelchair for six months.

They thought he would never walk again.

Yeah, yeah.

But he's walking.

Really fought to get some mobility back. And serving each other in those seasons of sickness and in health can be difficult. But it's a privilege to serve your spouse in those moments. We have a book called Naked and Healthy that I encourage you to get. I think it's a really important resource to help you grow in your own health, mentally, physically, and spiritually, and help your spouse do the same. And so it's not just for people who are in a season of sickness, but really those who want to be at their peak health in all levels. And. And it's got a lot of funny stories, too, which is. Which is meaningful. But, sweetie, in sickness and in health, we've seen so many couples walk through this. We've walked through some of this ourselves. What are your thoughts, man?

I think the main thing is just remembering why we're together and that it's a privilege to serve our spouse. Like, we have to count it a privilege to serve our spouse. And I do think, man, you know, we have walked alongside many couples of all different ages because, you know, I think we often equate, like, the in sickness as being way far off. Like, when we're older, like, we're just going to have this. What older people deal with. But, you know, we've known people in their 20s. You know, one of our good friends, his wife, really, from the time they met, like, in their teens, and from the time of her early 20s, she had cancer. And so most of their marriage, he was her caretaker. I mean, she just. She would get better, and then it would attack another part of her system. And having to be a caretaker and also raise two young children, doing a lot of that on your own is so hard. And also, you know, I remember him talking. She's since passed, but I remember him talking about how. How she would feel. So I don't know if guilty is the word, but just frustrated with herself that she couldn't help more. You know, I think it's really important, especially in times of dealing with sickness, is trying to see the other person's point of view. Like, if you're the. If the. If you're the caretaker, trying to remember you Know, or try to understand. I mean, we can't fully understand, but trying to understand what it really feels like to have a cancer diagnosis or to. To not be able to move like you once could or whatever it is. And if you're the person who is sick or who has injuries where they can't do what they once could do, you know, trying to see what it's like to be a caretaker, like, trying to take both. Having compassion for the other, I think an empathy. I think that's really important in both situations. You know, I had a sorority sister who many years ago, still in her. I want to say she was in her late 20s. She was. Had always been an athlete, like a star player. And I think on our soccer, um, her and her husband were out skiing, and she, you know, was going fast down a slope and ended up falling in such a way that she became paralyzed from the waist down. In fact, it. She has limited mobility. Even in her arms, she can move them. But this was actually after they had. I think she had just had their first child and. And he was still a baby. And she all of a sudden is like, what do I do? I mean, I'm. I'm in a wheelchair with. We're this young couple. We have our whole life ahead of us, and we have this newborn. What in the world do we do? And watching this couple from afar navigate this, it is. It's just inspiring. And seeing her husband come in and just like, you know, be her advocate and getting the different therapies. She needed surgeries, she needed the right gear. You know, you want to have the right kind of chair and to increase her mobility because. And over the years, she's had different ways to do that. It's just been awesome. And then to see her courage in speaking about this in. And not letting her limitations define what their future looks like. They ended up having another child. And so they have these two beautiful kids, and they just are. They're just taking. Amazing what happened and not letting it. You know, things obviously had to change a little bit, but living their life. And she actually just put a post recently and was talking about it and just how in her post she went on to thank all the people over the years who helped them. And it included all the medical help she had, the nurses, the doctors. It included how her church stepped in and were the hands and feet of Jesus, bringing meals or providing childcare or just trying to find housing for them if they had to go to a different hospital for a different kind of treatment. And it's Just. And then really, ultimately, she really thanked her husband for being such a rock. And it's like they've still been able to live a full life. And I think, you know, some of you who are. Who are listening and watching where that's your dynamic right now, like, maybe you are in the midst of this. What I'm saying really sounds very much like out of reach and pie in the sky. And you're like, Ashley, but you don't know. And you're right, I don't know. Like, only you and your spouse, especially you, if you're the one going through the trauma that happened to you, only you and God know, really. But I think that just knowing, though, that even if someone can't fully understand the pain you're going through, the. The situation at hand, what your prognosis is, just know that you're not alone, though, and that your spouse loves you. Like, lean into your spouse, lean into your community, lean into your family, and just don't be afraid to ask for help. Because I think that that's the thing too. You know, she talked about my friend who is wheelchair bound. She talked about, you know, how it was hard to ask for help. You know, it's hard.

Yeah. It's a blow to the pride, especially when you've been a very independent person. But.

Right. And she. Yeah, but we. But we have to.

We have to sometimes. I mean, the Bible says carry each other's burdens in this way, you fulfill the law of Christ, and we're called to do that. Sometimes we're the ones helping carry somebody else, and sometimes somebody else is helping carry ours. But we all carry sometimes, and we.

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Some people think nature is like this, but actually it's like this. That's why Columbia engineers everything we make for anything nature can throw at you. Columbia engineered for whatever help sometimes we do.

And so I would encourage you and your spouse, like, if you've never talked about, well, what would it look like if one of us got a diagnosis or had an Accident or what? You know, go ahead and talk about it. It can be like I'm, I tend to be one who doesn't like talking about those things. Like, I remember not too long ago we were talking through what kind of funeral we each wanted. I don't know, it got brought up and like, and Dave was like, we do need to talk about this because I would want to honor your wishes.

Right, and burial plans versus cremation, like.

That kind of thing.

And it sounds like morbid, especially when we're relatively young. But I do think, I think it's important to talk through all these things, like having kind of a plan if, well, if, if, if we have a serious injury and we're like on a, on a machine, right? Like, what, do you pull the plug? Do you just kind of stay, stay plugged in for, you know, forever? I don't. I mean, to talk through those things and ultimately to do it with the hope of knowing this life isn't all there is. You know, as followers of Jesus, you know, we hold firmly to our faith that this life is a breath and eternity with our Savior is waiting on us. And we want to make the most of this life. We want to love each other deeply through every second of it and leave a generational legacy behind us. But ultimately trying to, trying to just hold on to this life is futile because it's going to end relatively soon for all of us, whether that's a few months or, or 50 years from now. That's all relatively soon. And, and it's okay to talk about these things, you know, these kind of like, well, worst case scenario, well, what, what do we do? What will we, how do we plan for this?

What kind of help would you want? Like, yeah, you know, I actually have an article about this that goes into more detail@exomarriage.com or Dave and Ashley willis.com but I talked about like, in working with all, because we have had, we've had mental illness, we've had physical illness, but nothing like major, like some of what some people have walked through. But in talking with them, one thing I learned is that, you know, ahead of time we need to talk about, well, you know, what kind of care would you want? Would, you know, would you be willing to go in a facility if that would help you for a short time or, you know, for a long time? Like, you know, things like memory care, you know, like you just think about things like Alzheimer's where you wouldn't even maybe be in a state to decide those things. So if you could talk about it ahead of time, hoping that never happens, but just to know you would have so much more peace in deciding what your loved one, like, what kind of treatment they should have if you've already talked to them about it when they were in their right mind. Okay.

Yeah.

We've also talked about if you're in the midst and everybody can feel differently, but I think that if you're in the midst of an illness, like a really hard illness, or you've had injuries, you need to talk about with your spouse. How many visitors do you want? Do you want visitors right away? You know, do you want us to talk to people about your cancer diagnosis, or do you want to keep it between us and a few family members? Like, I remember years ago, we were talking with a pastor and his wife. The wife had battled cancer on and off. She, the first time she had it, wanted it to be open and was very open about it. People would come to the house, they'd bring meals and all this. But then, you know, she was in remission for many years. But the second time she got it, she said, I don't want to tell anybody. I just want to live my life. She got wigs that matched her hair that she was like, I'm going to keep on going to my job as long as I can. I just want to keep going with life. I just don't want to have to explain to people, you know, it. Exhaust it. Just the thought of that exhaust me. I've already done that in the past. And so he honored that, and he said it was hard. I mean, they told, like, their family, but. But in the church, congregation didn't know at that time until, you know, and then she was in remission again. And until it happened, you know, another time. And ultimately, she lost her life. They did tell, you know, when it got really dire, they did share it. But we have to be willing to honor our spouse's wishes.

Yeah.

Because they're the ones, you know, facing that illness, and we're facing it with them, but we need to honor whatever wishes they have with that.

Yeah, that's. It's so good. And. And just, again, see it as a privilege, whether it's a. It's a mild injury.

Yeah.

You know, I milk a mild injury.

Well, you've been my caretaker with me getting a hysterectomy.

She's so much tougher than me. Guys, though, listen, for one week, I was. She got a hysterectomy and was up in no time. Like, I stub my toe I want to call hospice. I'm like, come in. Just. My life's over. Just keep me comfortable. I. I don't have any pain threshold. Not like you. I get. I get a cold, and I'm like, please, just bring me soup, then rub my feet and cuddle with.

The thing about it is, though, you rarely even get sick.

Thankfully, I don't get sick, really.

Rarely. He has some good animals.

When I do, I want everybody to know. Terrible. This is it. This is the end. Oh, but serve each other, you know, serve each other. Be tender with each other. Ask for the help that you need. Don't be stubborn. You know, Ask for the help you need. And if there's someone in your life that you see them sick and struggling, carry each other's burdens as best you can. Reach out and say, what can I do to serve? You know, can I bring a meal? Can I, you know, help the one who's sick or even help the caregiver in some way? Because the caregiver is carrying a tremendous, invisible burden. Mentally, physically, emotionally. You know, reach out to them, pray for them. Let them know, hey, we're here in your corner. We want to help in whatever way that we can. And let's. Let's help each other. Guys, listen. Hey, we're gonna go ahead and do our let's Get Deep question. This will be the last one of these that we do. It's been a fun game where we've ended these episodes asking each other one question from the let's Get Deep game. And we don't know. We don't know. It's a surprise. So you want me to go first?

Sure. You go ahead.

Okay. This is fun. Yeah.

Okay, good.

So if you were going to involve food in sex somehow.

Oh, wow.

What would you use and how would you use it? Oh, this got steamy.

I saw a post from some fellow. Gosh, what. What is their page called on Instagram? They have some good stuff. I can't think of what it's called, but it's about. Oh, my gosh, that's terrible. But anyway, it was another page where they were talking about this, about involving food. I don't know. I. My inclination is to not add to the stickiness of.

So you don't want syrup drizzled on you? You don't want whipped cream?

Not really. I mean, it's just not really my, like. I don't know. It's like, I don't find that very appealing. But, I mean, I guess you could, like, if I had to. I would probably pick chocolate because I love chocolate.

Okay.

And it would just be any chocolate. It would be dark chocolate.

And what. What would happen with that Dark chocolate syrup? Where would it go? Okay, you gotta tune in next time to get the rest of the answer. All right, so chocolate syrup. I'm down. All right. What do you got?

All right, mine is. Mine's a little more serious or it could be funny. It depends on how you take it. It said, what's a past decision you made and that you wish you could redo and why? It could be about anything. I mean, this could be serious or silly.

Oh, man. Gosh. Well, I've got a bunch, you know, like, financially, you know, there's certainly things I would have done differently. Investments I would have done differently, much differently. On that, I think. You know, obviously, I'd go back and not have had this porn issue and kept it a secret from you. Like, from a sin issue standpoint. What else? I mean, for most of our lives, even the parts that were challenging, even the moves that we made that were challenging, and life might have been easier to not have that season or whatever, I'm thankful for all of it. I'm thankful for every twist and turn and dip and dive in the story so far, because even the hard parts, I feel like we grew. And, yeah, and I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful for the adventure and the growth and. And so, yeah, I'm thankful that God forgives the. The regret parts and the sin parts, and he restores. He redeems. So, yeah, a blessed man. And I'm. And the best is yet to come because I got you by my side, baby.

I love it. I love it.

Love you guys.

If you all want to check this out, they are not a sponsor. I wish they were our friends Heidi and Kitty. I said Kitty, Heidi and Kenny, who are also exo mediators. They're awesome people. They gifted this to us during the exchange. The Christmas gift exchange staff Christmas party.

We work with the best ever.

It's a card game. It says, let's get deep questions for couples. It's actually by the makers of what do youo Meme? So, like, I don't know if you've ever played that game. It's really fun. Our family loves it. There's some good questions, but it's so good. Like, I've really enjoyed this. This would be a great thing to take on a date night. Maybe even like a double date night, like with other couples or a small group. You could do this in a couple small group. It'd be really fun but it makes you think and they have some questions that are just kind of like fun and like they say breaking the ice deep, deeper and then act like things you're supposed to act on. And so anyway, check it out. That was really fun. I enjoyed it.

That was fun. Hey guys, thanks for staying tuned throughout this series. We've got brand new stuff coming next week. We've got some great interviews lined up. There's a lot that's going to be coming on the Naked Marriage podcast if you're not already too. Also check out our Parenting Uncovered podcast which is a separate podcast dedicated specifically to parenting tips and family tips. And we're having a lot of fun over there as well. We love and appreciate you guys. Go to xomarriage.com or follow us on Instagram at Dave and Ashley Willis for more and we will see you next time.