Too Tired for Sex

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Foreign.

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And we have a great episode for you today. But before we dive in, I want to share one more of our reviews. You guys have been so gracious in sharing your reviews to spread the message of the Naked Marriage podcast and to encourage other marriages, and we just want to thank you. So today's review is from Mrs. T3ACH3R and it's entitled Eye Opening. And this person or this woman gave us five stars. So thank you. It says, this podcast has helped me see so much about myself in my marriage. I've realized I'm not always right. Lol. Such applicable advice you're giving. And although you don't consider yourselves marriage experts, you clearly have a calling on your life to help others have a better quality marriage. Thank you for answering the call. Well, that's so sweet. Thank you. My goodness, thank you so much. And if you want to leave a review, guys, you just go to Apple Podcasts and you leave your review there. Even if you're listening somewhere else. That's the best place to leave it because that's how we get the word out about the podcast.

Yeah, we really appreciate those reviews. They mean a lot to us. And you can also find us on YouTube. We haven't said it lately, but that's right, you can watch. You can watch. You can watch us here live from the marriage capital of the world, South Lake, Texas, where the XO Marriage headquarters is being built as we speak.

Yes.

And so we'll have a brand new podcast studio in there. But even now, the XO office is right here in South Lake, Texas, which makes it the marriage capital of the world. That's right.

Okay, guys, this might be one that you would rather watch than listen to because the topic is what to do when you're too tired for sex. And Dave is just kind of tired today. So I'd love for you to see tired Dave.

Tired Dave. So the topic is fitting. It is fitting, summoning the energy, because I am excited to have this conversation because it's important. And a lot of folks are in this boat and they're. I get it. You know, when you're, you know, maybe working busy schedules, you're raising kids, you got a lot going on, and you get to the end of the day and it's like, I'd like to make love, but I'm just too tired for sex. Or maybe there's a frustration point because you are the one in the marriage that's like, I'm never too tired for sex. As long as I have a pulse, I'm gonna have enough energy to have sex. But my spouse, they always act like they're too tired for sex. And this, this hurts me. It's like a personal rejection. And I feel like when you say you're too tired, you're saying everything else in the day was worth me giving my energy to. And you are not. And it doesn't. I know they don't mean it that way, but that's how it feels, especially in a moment of rejection and sexual frustration. And this becomes a contention point that a lot of couples get stuck on. When you get to the end of the day, how. And one spouse, maybe both, but often it's just kind of one that consistently just is like, I'm too tired, maybe tomorrow. And it's like they're hitting the snooze button on their sex life over and over. Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow. And it just isn't happening nearly as much as it should, and certainly not nearly as much as that higher drive spouse would desire it. And then when you get out of the habit of doing it because you're too tired, then it becomes easier to just not want to do it at all after a while. And so it can create some negative habits. We talk about a lot of this in the Counterfeit Climax book which comes out this coming week. What I mean, we're almost there. Like we are in the home stretch. It's still not too late to jump on the pre order perks. If you go to thecounterfitclimax.com you can get in on the pre order and you can actually have access to it through pre ordering. Some. Some exclusive resources that go along with it that you can start reading right now. But man, I think this book could help in your sex life. But in our conversation today, we're going to keep it focused on what do you do when you're too tired for sex.

That's right. You know, we hear from so many people about this where. And it is, it's different things. Like, for example, I know for me, when I can relate to this the most is probably after having children because there is just no tired. Like after having a baby tired, you know, and, and you know, the first six weeks you technically are not supposed to be having intercourse. And so for a lot of people that, you know that we're the most tired. You can't really even have sex. But, you know, even afterwards it goes on for a while, like you're exhausted. And that's not just for women, but the men too.

No, I've been tired for 16 and a half straight years. That's how long I've been a parent. And I, I've never recovered.

I know, parent tired. You know, they say dog tired, I say parent tired.

Parent tired.

Yeah. Because I mean, it is, it's exhausting in the most beautiful way. Right. We love being moms and dads.

We love it. Yeah.

But you know, I do remember, I remember when we hit the six week point and you go to the doctor and they give you the go ahead. And I literally came home and Dave had the goofiest grin on his face.

Is it going to happen? Is it going to happen?

And I'm always. And he's like, what the doctor say? And I'm like, but I'm going to be honest. We usually had sex before I actually saw Dr. McDonough. And then he would ask me, he'd said, you already did. And didn't he already did it? Didn't you?

Well, it wasn't like, like if I was healed early. If you were.

No, I mean, like, I mean like five and a half weeks or something.

You know, I wasn't in the hospital.

Like, I'm just being honest.

After labor, like, how are you feeling, baby?

No.

You need a little company in that hospital bed.

No, that's not nice.

No, no, it wasn't anything like that.

No, I just mean, like you.

Six weeks is an arbitrary number, you.

Know, as tired as we were.

But you, you know, after, like it might be a little over five weeks and you're, you were like, you know, I'm feeling good. I feel like I'm, I'm fine.

Right. And again, like, that's just disclosure, but for most people it's six or more weeks, especially if they had an episiotomy and if they had any kind of trauma down there, obviously. Please do not, like, listen to your doctor's orders. That is the wise thing to do. I'm just being honest about me having to admit to my doctor she just.

Couldn'T stay away from me is the thing. Thing like she was willing to risk injury.

That is not true.

That is not true. Could not stay off of me.

Oh my gosh.

Well, let me just say that's probably not exactly.

This is completely taking a different turn here. So back to if you're too tired to have sex. So yeah, we might have done it before the actual six week mark, but then there would be, you know, longer periods of time than we're used to because I would be like exhausted or you would be like, from waking up in the middle of the night. I was usually nursing our kids. If I wasn't nursing Dave, was waking up and changing our kids. And it was just like both of us were kind of zombies there for a while. And even though, you know, it's like, you know, you want to have sex, you know, or, and, or that you even need to, maybe, you know, that there's a need for that. But we can sometimes get to the point where physically we are just exhausted and it becomes that whole thing between, like, I know for women, especially for most women, we have to be in a mental space to really enjoy sex. You know, yes, we can go through the motions and not it not be really a mutually satisfying experience necessarily where both are going to reach a climax of some kind. But, you know, if we're both going to enjoy it, like, I know for me personally, and I hear this from a lot of the women that write us there, you kind of have to have a mental space where you can have enough things kind of out of the way, so to speak, with sleep being one of them, like that you're rested enough to kind of be in that romantic space of your mind.

Sure.

And. And I, I do remember in those years of raising young kids and having babies that I would tell you that sometimes I'd say, listen, can we wait until this time of day? Like this is the time of day where right now in this season of nursing babies, I know the baby's gonna be asleep and I'm gonna have had a nap and I'm going to feel a little bit better. And you were so gracious during that time to kind of. Because I was the one tending to get up a little bit more than you. I mean, you'd get up too, but I would be up a little bit more because I was nursing the kids. And you would graciously say, yes, of course, you know, I know I need you to be at your best. And I think the key to this, which we've done well, sometimes and then other times we've not done well, I'm not saying we always did this the right way, but the times that we were kind of really listening to each other and honoring each other's wishes were those times we really could enjoy it together. And I just want to say, like, if that's you, maybe it's raising young kids right now like you just had a baby, or maybe it's work that. A really busy season of work. Whatever it is, communication is key. You've got to really talk to your spouse and say, listen, I'm not trying to give you a cold shoulder. I'm not trying to deny your needs. I want this to be a priority in our marriage, but physically, I am just exhausted. And so can we maybe change up when we tend to make love? Like, maybe we just, like maybe on your lunch break, you come home and I come home, and that's when we do it. Because we're going to have energy. Because nighttime right now I'm like, dead. You know, I'm not, I'm just, my mind is, is exhausted and I can't even really. I can't even be in the. In the mood, so to speak.

Yeah. And just helping each other be at your best is not only a recipe for a good sex life, but good marriage in general is saying, like, how can I serve you? Instead of just being focused on your own needs. Like, oh, man, I, you know, I really just, I need to have sex right now, and I don't care how my spouse is feeling. But to take a step back from your own immediate need in your mind, what feels immediate and saying, how can I serve my spouse right now? And if both spouses will do that, if both spouses will take on that serving mindset, it's going to help all the needs within the marriage to be met. And if you are feeling too tired for sex, it's like, let's figure out, okay, right now we're in a busy season and. But let's not just like, let this be an excuse to have like 10 years of hardly any sex. Because there's a 10 year busy season when you're, you know, raising young kids. So let's figure out how to reorder our schedule to where both of us can feel like we're getting the rest we need. We're both, you know, having sexual connection and intimacy and frequency that all those needs are being met. And maybe there's some things that we're doing right now that we need to stop doing. Maybe there are some things on the calendar we need to remove that aren't bad things. We just don't have time for it. We don't have any margin and we've got it eliminated. Maybe there's some things we could do to up our energy level if we exercised more or if we were changing some things of how we were even eating just to be at our best. For me, I feel like I've had to constantly tinker with things to try to be at my best energy wise. With a thyroid condition that affects my energy, I'm always trying to exercise and figure out what works. I'm taking supplements all the time right now at this very moment, even for my last blood test, my testosterone is really low, which really impacts energy and sex drive and even like sexual performance. And so I'm just out of whack. And so I've had to figure out and I'm in the process of figuring out kind of how to get all that leveled out. And Ashley's so patient and encouraging with me in that. But you and your spouse have to just encourage each other to figure here. Maybe you need to talk to a doctor. Maybe you should try this. What can I do to serve you? What can I do to help you? Not to try to parent them and tell them what they have to do, but to just encourage them and serve them and say, I just want you to be at your best. And maybe if you tried this or maybe if you talk to a doctor, got some blood work done, there might be something that could be modified and changed fairly simply that would help you with your energy level and just do those things. But when you just say, no, this is just how I am now and this is how it's going to be, then you're not serving your spouse and you're really, you're not even helping yourself because you're settling for something far less than your best. Right. So you just have to keep at it. And I'm saying this as somebody that's kind of like in that journey right now. I mean, it's not something you figure out one time and never have to do again. Like we say monitor and adjust a lot on here. You have to monitor where things are right now and then make adjustments accordingly. And what works right now might not be working a year from now. And you have to, you have to keep making those adjustments.

Absolutely. And I think, gosh, I love how Dave is talking about that because the truth is, maybe you're listening to this and you haven't had that season yet. Like, maybe you haven't had a tired season yet, but you will. Like, this is just. You will, whether you have children or not, regardless of your job, just aging, life, circumstances, responsibilities changing. You're gonna have a season, so just be ready. I hope that you still listen to this till the end, because we can all learn something from it. I mean, I know that our kind of tired isn't as tired as somebody else's kind of tired. You know, we have friends where not only are they raising young children, but they're also caring for aging parents and having busy jobs. Now, that's tired. Like, yeah. And I just. My heart goes out to him, like, that's tired. Because it's like. What do they call it, the sandwich generation, where you're squeezed. I mean, you are. And so there's all these things vying for our attention. And that's why we always talk about. On here, intentionality is key. We've got to be intentional. And that's where it may take. Writing it down on a calendar so that you can make sure you're ready for it and saying, like, okay, we've committed. And again, the number's gonna be different for everybody. So please don't take this as some recipe that we're putting out there, because this is gonna be between you and your spouse, your individual needs and your goals for your marriage. But, you know, maybe let's say your goal is to have sex twice a week, put it on the calendar, and then make sure that you're ready for that. You know, make sure. Make sure that you get enough rest that day. Make sure that you have a nap that day if you can, like, or. Or that you, you know, maybe if you're not like, that day, you're like, you didn't get enough rest that morning. And you're like, my energy is going to be better at lunchtime. Call your spouse, say, listen, can we meet at lunch at the house? And, like, let's. Let's make it a priority now.

Afternoon delight.

Afternoon delight. Right? That's, like, your favorite, right? Just like the song.

So Afternoon delight. It's from, like, the 70s. I mean, I don't even know if I was.

You know, all the words. Don't even act like you don't.

Well, it is a classic.

But, you know, be willing to communicate. But I feel like putting it on the calendar, and I know you guys, some of you are rolling your eyes right now, like, Ashley, you in the calendar. But you guys, when we put stuff on the calendar, we tend to prioritize it. And so put it on the calendar. You don't have to actually write sex on it. If you have kids and you want them to vomit in their mouth because they can read and know what that is, don't do that. But, like, just you guys put something where you know what it is, you know, to prepare for it. That's the key. And. And then if there is something that comes up that day and you do need to monitor and adjust, the key is communication. But I want to talk about kind of. I want to shift this conversation a little bit and talk about maybe. Maybe actually being tired isn't the issue. Maybe saying you're tired is the excuse that's given. And it's kind of that, you know, that people make fun of this all the time. You see it in movies, you see it in memes. I'm so tired. Like, all of a sudden, she's tired and she has a headache. It's always the girl, too. You always have the woman doing this.

Our pastor years ago, named Wayne Smith, who was like, the funniest. He's passed, God rest his soul. He's in heaven. But he would always, always tell funny stories and jokes, and he had his funny voice. And he would say, you know, from the. He'd say these in sermons. Like, even if it had nothing to do with the sermon, he would just say, like, these funny stories. He goes, so this feller walks into his bedroom, and his wife's laying there. And he talked. Just like that. He talked. It's like such a good wife laying there. And he hands her a couple aspirin, and she says, what's the aspirin for? And he said, it's for your headache. She said, I don't have a headache. And he said, gotcha. And then he laugh at his own joke.

Like it seems to be the headache.

Or the too tired, preemptively trying to deal with her excuse. And so. But that is kind of stereotypical. I'm tired, I have a headache or whatever. And maybe a person does, but a lot of times it's a lot more than that.

Right?

And there's a deeper issue of why they just. One spouse is disengaged or not wanting to. And we talk a lot about this again in the counterfeit climax, you know, the reasons that hold people back, the mindsets, all of the different things that can hold people back from really experiencing sexual intimacy in its fullness and then how to resolve that. But just as a little kind of brief preview, what are some of the ways to get past that?

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I think you have to. If it, if it becomes something that happens consistently and in all truth, this can be men or women giving this, this excuse, so to speak. And so, you know, it might be legit sometimes, so please don't misunderstand me. But if this is something that is constantly a reason given for not having sex, it needs to be addressed. And you need to say, listen, I love you, but I'm, I'm concerned. Like, I feel like every time I, you know, approach the issue of wanting to be intimate, you say you're too tired and. But then I find you, you know, up late on your phone and I, I thought you were tired. And so I think it's probably more than that. And I just want to talk to you about that. Is there something I'm doing that is turning you off? Is there something I've done that you haven't forgiven me for because I didn't even know I needed to seek your forgiveness? And is there something that's just off putting about me? Or is this time of day not a good time of day for you? You know, not accusing them, but just kind of reckoning, you know, saying, like.

I recognize you have no drive.

Yeah. Like, are you just like, what's going on? Yeah, because it, and it could be, you know, odds are it may not be anything to having to do with you, but when we can kind of ask from that standpoint and say, what can I do? Is there something within my control that I can help remedy this situation? And it's disarming and they don't feel, you know, accused. And then if they say, no, none of that, and they'd say, well, have you ever thought that maybe maybe, you know, your levels are off with your hormones or, you know, maybe maybe that there's, there's some other kind of issue, like, that could be affecting you? Because let's get it Checked out. Because I feel like that this is coming in between us. Like, this is. This is coming. This is becoming an issue. And I care about you. And it's not, you know, you're not approaching them from the standpoint of, like, you're making me starve out here. Okay. But you're saying, I care about you, and I want. I want us to feel that closeness that sex brings us, and it's. We're not having it as much anymore. And so what can I do to help you to find out how we can, you know, remedy this. This issue?

So. Good. And that. That kind of honest, vulnerable conversation. Yeah. Can really help you get there. And so. And not just get there sexually, but I'm talking about get there to a place of unity in your marriage. Because marriage is more than just your sex life. Your sex life's a big part of it, but it's much more than that. You want to be connected on every level, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and meeting each other's needs. And if there are any issues, to address them and work through them together. And so keep having those conversations. All right, his. Time for our question.

That's right.

And I love this time of the podcast. Thank you, guys. For those who submit these questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com and also for those who write questions to us on Instagram, Avanashley Willis, or on Facebook, we love hearing from you. And today's question says this. Do I tell my spouse about an ongoing attraction to someone we both have a relationship with at church? Do I stick it out and wait for my feelings to change, or do we need to leave our church? I've distanced myself as much as possible from this person and prayed about it. I wish I didn't feel the way that I do. Great, Great question. You know, here's the deal. Like, attraction is not the same as lust. So lust is a sin. Lust is when we take an attraction. You know, somebody walks by, you can recognize that's an attractive person. You know, Shanti Feldon has some great insights on this in some of her writings about how just recognizing, hey, that's an attractive person. I could be watching a movie. That's an attractive person. I can recognize that. I can feel a sense of attraction to them. And that's just a normal human response. But where it turns into sin is when we allow that attraction to kind of take root in our mind and develop into fantasies that we willingly play out. We willingly are lusting after this person imagining, you know, like, willfully imagining a Life with this person, when it's somebody we know, it's not just like a celebrity on screen, then feeling that connection to somebody, it is something that you have to be mindful of. You know, I know a pastor who, he and his wife kind of have, like, a code language they've developed around this where, you know, he'll say if there's somebody that he feels like that he just kind of has that, that connection to, and they're in his world in a way that he can't totally avoid them. He'll tell his wife, this is not a safe person for me. And I just need, I'm going to do my best to just kind of not be around this person. But I just want you to know this is not a safe person. I don't know that that's the answer. That's just an example. But I think in my mind.

I.

Feel like a husband and wife, on one hand, should have no secrets. I think you should be able to talk about anything. And, and if this is something that's, like, plaguing you, you know, you should talk about it. On the other hand, I think that there's a big difference between deception and discretion. And I think with discretion, there might be some wisdom. And not every time you see somebody that's attractive, you'd be like, hey, I find her attractive. Hey, I find her attractive. I'm sorry, I find her attractive, you know, and her doing the same for you. So that line between, like, you know, not wanting to ever deceive your spouse, but also wanting to be discreet and not wanting to just draw attention to things that aren't really an issue, but could be an issue by planting seeds of doubt in your spouse's mind. And those are things to be mindful of. So I want to commend you first off for writing this question, for just confessing, like, I don't want anything to sabotage my marriage, and if this is something that could, I want to get out in front of it. And he's willing to do anything, including talk to his wife about it, leave the church about it. But you're doing the wise things by, you know, distancing yourself as much as possible from this person and praying about it, those are really good steps. You know, I, I think that you're on the right path there. But, but coming back to your specific answer, what do you think, my love man?

I, I, I know we've shared the safe person thing before, and I'll just be honest with you all. That would hurt my heart. Like, I I. That's not our dynamic, you know.

Right. Yeah. We don't do that.

That would hurt my heart because I would be, like, crushed because.

Yeah. And I think.

Because I'd be like, oh, gosh.

And now you're putting that thought in your spouse's head. And so I think, you know, we. Again, it's not.

Maybe that. That might work for some couples.

It might work for some.

It depends on the couple.

But if somebody comes in, you're like, oh, you know, that's. That's a person that I find myself, like, attracted to, or I feel like a connection, and you're a human being, you're going to feel that sometimes. But every time, like, telling your spouse is going to. More likely than make them trust you more. It's going to make them feel diminished. And the fact that. So I would say, you know, I'm sorry, I've cut you off.

No, no, no. It's hard. This is hard because I don't think it's a one size fits all. And again, we want. I mean, this whole podcast is about not having secrets, and so you definitely don't let this become this big wedge between you, this big secret. But I think the fact that he's writing us, it's more than just, I find that woman attractive. I feel like. And I feel like it's a guy. I don't know why from reading that, but I don't know if he identified whether or not I think.

Yeah, he said it was a man talking about his wife.

Okay.

Church.

So it's like, I. I think that I really feel like if you. Okay, thank you. We're looking at the question again. I feel like if he's saying, I wish I didn't feel the way I do. He's having feelings.

Oh, well, actually, it doesn't say if it's a man or a woman.

Oh, okay.

So it's.

Well, this could be a man or a woman. We don't know. All right, so sorry that we're making that assumption. So, you know, this person wishes they didn't feel the way that they do.

They.

The fact that they're saying that means there's probably been a fantasy there. I feel like there has been a fantasy, but not one they want.

So it's in the unwanted space.

There is a lust there. There's a lust there.

Yeah. And so I think at that point, like, you have to, you know, continue what you're doing, like, pray about it. Try to, like, renew your mind from all that which can happen with just a Random person that you're around. It can happen from remnants of pornography I had to work through even after stopping watching pornography, where you have to continue to detox your mind from those images that were stamped there and the temptation to kind of go back to them or just seeing some random person on the street and being like, oh, that's an attractive person, and not letting your mind go to lustful places. So I think one thing you can do is every time you look at this person or any other person that you happen to find attractive, instead of just instantly going to this place of shame, like, oh, my gosh, I'm a terrible person because I found someone attractive. No, you're human, so you're going to notice people sometimes. But to say, lord, help me not to lust and let this be a trigger for me to think about my wife and thank you for my wife or my husband. If this is a wife writing, it can work, obviously both ways there. So I see somebody I'm attracted to. Let that in my mind instead of triggering lustful thoughts, to trigger thoughts about my spouse and say, all right, that's person I'm drawn to, so that's not my spouse. So it's gonna remind me to think about my spouse and to thank God for my spouse and to say, I can't wait to get home to my spouse. And let all of those things, instead of fixating. Cause your mind, what do you say, feasts on what it fixates.

Well, I didn't say that. Lisa Turker said that. And I love it. I love that statement.

So don't feast on. On just fixating on this person or this thought. But instead, when you have those thoughts, let it redirect you toward, I want to feast on thinking about my spouse, my marriage prayer. And you might have to do that over and over and over again.

You do. And he's talking about kind of a psychological method called association. So he's associating it. You can associate it with good things or with things not so good. And it's really the practice of renewing your mind. I mean, it really is. And I would just say you have to be so aware of where your eyes are going as well as your mind. And so try not to be around this person. I mean, I know it says you both have a relationship, so it sounds like they're friends at church. And I would say if you're in a small group with them, you probably shouldn't be in that small group. It sounds like it's come to a point where they recognize the danger. And if it's something where. If you've tried these things we're talking about, and it's just. It's just something where. I don't know, it's become this thing that you always think about. I do think you need to maybe have some time away, because if you can't avoid them, they're just at church, at your small group, you're volunteering, whatever. It's becoming this thing that you probably need to put some even more space there because the space that you're currently trying to put between you is maybe not enough. And so, I don't know. It's hard to know all the details of this situation with the question that we have. But I do think that it's important to. To really make sure that you don't continue entertaining any kind of fantasies, to make sure that you keep your spouse at the forefront of your mind and even of your desire. And again, don't feed those thoughts. You know, be very careful not to feed those thoughts. And that's. And we feed it. What we mean by feeding is just letting it go to fantasy or even fretting. Like, don't let it become fretting or anxiety. I mean, it's like you've heard us talk about. On the episodes where we talk about anxiety and depression. It's kind of the same principle here where you're fixated, okay, And. And it becomes something where maybe you're not fantasizing, but you're fixated on this person. And oh, gosh, what if. Oh, no, I'm thinking. I'm, you know, I'm doing this thing. It becomes like it's making, you know, it's a bird that flew over your head, like, if it's a thought. But all of a sudden you're letting that thought really manifest itself, like making a permanent place in your brain. And it's like. Like a bird making a nest in your head. And, you know, you have the power. God gave you the power to tell. To tell your thoughts which ones can come or, I'm sorry, which ones can stay and which ones need to go. You can't help which random thought comes into your head. But you do have that power to say, you can stay or you can go. But it takes practice. It takes, you know, methods like association. It takes prayer. I mean, just praying about it over and over again. And. And I think where you could be honest with your spouse about this, and by all means, if you feel led to tell your spouse about it, do it. It's going to be an interesting conversation. And, you know, but. But I always think honesty is a. Is obviously the best policy. But I think what would maybe even be a better conversation would be, you know, just telling your spouse, like, listen, I feel like mentally, I'm just really struggling with having my mind kind of in the right space. Would you pray for me? Would you pray that my thoughts are the thoughts that God would want me to have?

Yeah, that's good.

And that way, share the.

Share with you.

Right.

Being like in your world without, you know, saying something that they would only potentially hurt them.

Right.

So I think, yeah, there's definitely wisdom in that if you want a resource that could help. Because I think this is, you know, kind of probably created some anxiety, these thoughts. Max Takeda has a great book called Anxious for Nothing where he gives some really practical tools about being the air traffic controller of the thoughts that come in and out of your mind and give some very just practical biblical insight about how to move the wrong thoughts along and in this case, thoughts about this other person move them along and create space for what God wants to do. And so that could be a resource that could help. And thank you so much for your question. Really good stuff. And guys, thank you for listening. We just are honored, honored that you've taken the time and we hope you'll share this with a friend and I hope it'll spark some good conversations in your marriage and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.