What to Expect in Counseling

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Hey. Welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. Got a great episode for you today, but before we dive in, sweetie, why don't you share a review?

All right, today's review is from Steph and many numbers after her name and a smiley face that I can't even say here, But Steph is awesome. So she entitled her review our favorite and gave us five stars. Thank you so much. Much, Steph. And she says. My husband and I are newlyweds, and we began listening to Dave and Ashley when we got engaged. They have helped us talk through important topics, sometimes even well in advance. We love the wisdom that they share on such a wide variety of topics and how they always tie it back to what scripture says or doesn't say. We highly recommend not just this podcast, but also their books. So, Steph, thank you so much for you and your husband listening to this podcast and also reading the books and being willing to leave a review or we are so glad that you're finding it helpful. And we also just. We love hearing from newlyweds. Yes, it warms our heart.

You guys are so doing it, right? I mean, we were. We got married in the olden days, before podcasts existed, literally. I know Ashley only looks like 25, and you're thinking, how could you be that old? And if you don't watch this on YouTube, you're missing a lot. Because she's also a fashionista. She's rocking the cutest hat today. It is so cute. I'm being distracted by the cuteness. And, well, I do love a hat. I hope that I can get through this episode without just getting lost in her eyes. So silly. But see, I forgot what we were talking about. Oh, yeah, newlywed. So you guys are on the right track by doing what you're doing. So thank you for tuning in.

That's right. And today's topic is so near and dear to our hearts. We've talked a lot about counseling in the past, but today we're going to talk about what to expect in counseling. What does it look like? What questions are you going to be asked? You know, what should we be prepared for? And so let's dive in. Well, I'm so excited about today's episode because counseling, as you guys know, is so near and dear to our hearts. And actually, I don't know if we've even mentioned this on the podcast, but I'm in a master's program for biblical counseling. So not only have we experienced counseling ourselves personally, but from a professional standpoint, I can tell you what to expect in counseling as well. So I'm really excited about this conversation.

I am too. And tell everybody what your current GPA is in that biblical counseling program. It's a 4.0. She is so smart and is working so hard at this because we believe in this so much and she has such a passion and a gift. And I mean, I'm just so excited for you doing this program and for us to have this conversation about counseling because it's something that's helped us a lot over the years, both as a couple and individually. We've been, we've seen a counselor together. We've both been to counseling individually. In fact, like, very recently, just over this past summer, I was meeting online with a counselor through one of our ministry partners, Faithful Counseling. And you can connect with them actually@getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and go through.

Get a discount.

Yeah. And go through the same process that I just went through and had a really great experience connecting with the counselor.

Tell me what that was like, sweetie, for listeners, because I think the whole telehealth counseling thing is very new.

Yeah.

And it's more popular than ever with COVID But tell listeners, because I don't know, I mean, this was a private thing you were experiencing. It was one on one counseling. What was that like?

Well, it starts out, and it's almost like an eharmony of matching you with a counselor. So, you know, you answer these questions and kind of like what specific topics that you're kind of working through or wanting to talk through. Um, and they ask you other questions and then they, they match you up with somebody and if that person ends up not being a fit, then, you know, you can try somebody else. But you know, my counselor was very helpful in just, I don't know, like, helping me think new thoughts. And they do video sessions, so it kind of looks like Skype, kind of that kind of platform. And then your counselor can also, you know, message you through their, through their app, through their deal. So I would get Messages kind of follow up, like, hey, Dave, how are you doing with this? Or, you know, here's a resource that might help you out this week and really good and interactive and engaging and help me, like, talk through some things that even just recently that I'd never. I mean, I've been to counseling different times because I'm clearly messed up. Like, I've been through a lot.

But you don't just go when you're messed up. Counseling is healthy for anyone.

Yeah, that's even a bad joke. Counseling helps in all parts. The Bible says there's wisdom in seeking a multitude of counselors. That's in Book of Proverbs, the book of wisdom. So seeking out counseling isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. And we don't just go when we're broken. Even though if you are broken, counseling is a great first place to start. But you go when you just want to be better. Like, you want to have a clearer mindset, you want to have a better marriage. You know, it's like in any part of life, it's almost like coaching. You know, pro athletes who are the best in the world still get coaching. They still are looking to people who can guide them and help them get to that next level. And I think that counseling is part of that. So it was good online. I've also sat in person with counselors before, but the online experience I thought was just as helpful. And, you know, you don't have to leave the house. It's really good. We also have a team here at Exomarriage that can do mediation for you again, right from your house through Skype and through different channels. If you go to xomarriage.com help that's a great resource for couples together. So we just want to talk today, though, about why counseling is beneficial, what you can expect, what's it like, you know, what are they going to ask, why you should consider going? And, you know, we're not just trying to push you toward, like, specific places, like, go sit down with a counselor in your town. Like, we're just saying, get Christian counseling wherever you are. This isn't just a commercial for specific places or even for what we have here, but the need to do it somewhere.

Absolutely. And there are so many amazing Christian counselors out there. And I know we often say, you know, Christian counseling or biblical counseling. And the reason we say that is the counselors, you know, they have a lot of power in your life in shaping how you think. And so as believers, you don't want to go to a non Christian counselor because there is there, and I actually studied this, you know, in my program. There's a big push towards kind of this mindfulness wave of counseling, which isn't in and of itself a bad thing because mindfulness is a good thing. We do need to be mindful. Right. But really it errs on being very new age in its thinking and in its roots. And also it's just, it's just not of God. You know, some of the practices that come with that mindfulness. So I just want you to tread lightly with that because if you go to a counselor now, you very well may go to someone who describes themselves as a counselor, but actually is a Christian and maybe will use Christian counseling if you consent to that. Because you're most likely gonna sign a consent form from the beginning as to what kind of practices you're comfortable with. But I would say, you know, I personally would encourage you to look for a biblical or Christian counselor because you know what you're getting when you go there. And again, you still need to sign a consent form because you may want them to use explicitly Christian methods like praying with you or citing verses to you. Or maybe you're kind of early in your walk and you want them to use it implicitly, meaning that they're coming from a Christian worldview and the things they're going to tell you about and the resources they recommend for you are all going to be Christian based. But they're not going to pray with you because maybe you're not at that comfort level yet. And that's fine. But you still are coming. You're getting counseled by a person who believes in the power of Jesus, who believes that God is our source of healing and truth. And that's going to lead you to the best place. Because as a Christian, I mean, that's where we're coming from. And even if you're not a Christian and you're watching this or listening to this, I encourage you to start there too. Because I honestly don't know how I would have ever gotten through my four year battle with depression and anxiety or our different issues we've had with different family member issues over the years or anything we're dealing with without the power of Jesus in our lives.

Oh, for sure.

And, and so I just encourage you to start there now. So you're going to sign a consent form when you go in there again, they're going to ask you about different things you're comfortable with. You know, as far as some different psychological and therapeutic practices. And then you're going to sit down, and that first session is usually a getting to know you session. You know, you're going to get to know the counselor a little bit. And some counselors tell more about their life than others. Like, I remember I was in counseling. My very first counselor, Dorothy was her name, and she was my, like, my first individual counselor. So I didn't know what to expect. And I remember she was really reluctant to share any personal anything in the beginning. But I saw this lady for about a year, year and a half, and towards the end there, she did start to open up more. So some counselors just, they. They want to put the focus more on you and not relate maybe to your situation quite yet, because they don't know if you're going to be sitting, staying with the process. And so that doesn't mean they're not like, they're just this cold, clinical counselor. It's just kind of a lot of times how counselors start out with their counseling sessions. And so they're gonna ask you a lot of questions about your childhood. They're gonna ask you a lot of questions about the relationships in your life. What brought you there, you know, why are you here? If you mention, like, well, I'm dealing with anxiety, they'll say, oh, that's interesting. Well, when you have anxiety, what does it feel like? What do you think about? And they're gonna go through all those questions. And one thing that I think a lot of people don't understand will happen in counseling is the silence. But a trained counselor knows that silence is a great thing. And a trained Christian or biblical counselor knows that it's maybe the best thing that might be the best part of the counseling session. Because that's when the Holy Spirit is, as our counselor, that, you know, we receive as Christ followers. That's when the Holy Spirit is honestly doing his best work. Because you're usually thinking through what they just asked you or thinking about, what is my answer. And so don't be afraid of the silence.

Yeah, silence can be your friend. And there are going to probably be moments that are uncomfortable, because in anything in life worth doing, they're going to be moments that are uncomfortable. Like if you go to a trainer at a gym, there are going to be moments that are uncomfortable where you feel like you're being, you know, you're being pushed and it hurts and it's sweating. Now, you're not going to feel physical pain. With counseling and with a good counselor that guides you through the process, you might not even feel like really a lot of emotional or mental pain, but eventually they are going to lead you back to some maybe painful places because you have to deal with that to really move forward and experience healing. So it's for your good and it's worth the process, it's worth the effort. And at different times I've talked to counselors about different things I've had. If I just felt like a general stress level that felt unmanageable to talk through, like, where was that coming from and where was that drive to like be too busy coming from? Or if I was responding just in anger, you know, sometimes if, like, if anger is my go to emotion, then I know that something is off just with how I'm seeing the world and how I'm responding to things. And I need to talk to somebody about where that's coming from and that stress and anger, maybe you're, you know, tied together. You know, this last counselor I met with, not something I planned to talk about, but something that ended up coming up and I'd never really talked about, at least in a counseling session, is, is a childhood trauma that I kind of not even really thought about being a trauma. It was so long ago. Things that happened when I was about 6 years old that was continuing to still kind of have some manifestations in my life now in some specific ways. And to be able to have somebody help navigate that and to talk through it and to kind of go back to that place and talk through it in a way that I hadn't before, it was really, really healthy. And so I think there is such benefit. There's a temptation in life to just move on from things and bury it and just keep plowing forward. But if we don't deal with things from the past, then we can't be at our best in the present or the future. And so counselor will kind of help help navigate that. You know, if there are issues in marriage, you know, we talk all the time about the benefit of sitting down. You know, a lot of what we talked about up to this point have been that individual counseling, which is important because you've got to be healthy for your marriage to be healthy. But there's great benefit in a couple sitting down together with a trained third party mediator Christian counselor to help you both see things in a new perspective and to be a safe place for you to talk through your differences and those, those ruts that couples can get stuck in where, you know, you both dig in your heels and you both feel like you're right and the other one's wrong. And. And that counselor can kind of help you see the whole situation in a new way, and it can really be a game changer. And so now, again, it's important that you go to a Christian counselor, a biblical counselor, because if you just go out to, like, any secular counselor, you don't know what message you're going to get. Like, we had some friends that were having a hard time in their marriage. They went to a secular counselor. One of the issues was the husband wanted a lot more sex and the wife had, like, zero sex drive. And the counselor's advice, this counselor who's got these people in a vulnerable situation where they're going to listen to what you say, he told them, well, the best thing you could do is just have an open marriage and let the husband go have sex with whoever he wants, as long as he comes home and is a good provider and all those things. Just terrible advice, unbiblical advice, reckless advice.

And thank God they knew better.

And they knew better, and they did not have an open marriage. If it's an open marriage, it's not even a marriage. It's something else. But if you go to a biblical counselor, they're going to say, here's God's plan for you for marriage. And these are words that we can trust. You know, I remember one counselor I was going to years ago, a wise sage, you know, older man that had just had a lot of life experience. And I was the first appointment in the office one day, and I walked in a little bit before my appointment, and it's one of the most touching things I've ever seen. So my counselor, Dr. Kennedy, and then the other counselor in the office, and the secretary in the office, his little small office, he was leading them in a devotional for the morning. And then, you know, I came in on the very end of that, and I stayed real quiet. And then they. They held hands and prayed. They prayed for everybody that was going to come in that day, that the Lord would just give them as counselors the words to say to point people back to the hope that can only be found in Christ, that they would have insight into being able to speak into what the situations were. They prayed blessings on every person that was going to come and sit in one of those appointments. And so there they were, praying for me before I even went in. And if you were sitting down with somebody that, you know, has prayed for you before it even started, you're in the right place, and that's you Know something? I know our team here at, you know, with the XO mediators, they do that. They are prayer warriors. You want whoever you talk to make sure it's somebody that loves Jesus, cares about you, and is going to lead you based on what God's word has to say.

Absolutely. I mean, we've benefited from the prayers of our exo mediators. Like, we'll sometimes just receive these amazing messages that include prayers in them from them because they're like, we're praying for not only the people we see, but the entire exomarriage staff. And it. It warms my heart. And I feel. I feel those prayers. And again, even if, like, you're not to the point where you're like, I barely know my counselor, I don't know if I wanna pray with them. Just know that they're still praying for you. And there's such power in that because they're really kind of saying, lord, you make a way here. Like, you make a way. And they're also praying, lord, help me to be able to have enough perception to really lean into the things that you want to deal with in. In this person. Because when we're in counseling, you know, sometimes we wanna tell too many details, and that's fine. But a trained counselor knows what to really, like, hone in on. Just like with your counselor recently honing in on that childhood trauma that needed to be dealt with a little bit more for you. And so it really. It gave you more freedom in your life, and it led to us talking about it. Even though you were in individual counseling. We talked about it.

Right. It can stir up those important conversations for you to have with your spouse.

Absolutely.

That you might not even have. Well, that you'd never had before. Just because you'd never thought to have it before.

Exactly. And I want to say with marriage counseling, we often hear from people who say, you know, I really liked counseling, but my spouse got really awkward because the counselor kept on really asking them questions, and they felt really kind of focused on, and they didn't like that. And so, you know, one spouse ends up not wanting to go. And I just want to tell you, there's going to be ebbs and flows in counseling. There's going to be times where it's really just on the two of you. There's going to be times where you're in the room, but they see something that needs to be dealt with in your spouse, and so they're really asking them questions. It's not to drill you, it's to bring out the truth. And it's really, you know, as counselors. Counselors are trained to help their clients to see the truth themselves and really even to see what the next steps need to be. It's really. You're more of a guide. You're more of a guide in the journey to help the client to really focus in on what does need to be addressed. And so it's not like they're trying to bully one spouse. And if you feel that way, maybe you're with the wrong counselor. That's the next point I wanted to make, is sometimes if you've gone to, like, I don't know, five or six sessions, and you both are like, I just don't feel like this person gets us and they're focused. Like, I don't feel like they're getting why we're here, and we don't seem to be going anywhere. It might be time to try a new counselor. You do need to give it time. I would say five or six. Wouldn't you agree with that? Like, yeah, I think five or six sessions will give you.

Give it five or six. But just because it's hard at first doesn't mean it's the wrong counselor. Because sometimes. Absolutely, you know, Ashley said, and it's so sometimes things feel worse before they get better because you're dealing with uncomfortable things, often that you haven't dealt with, and that might be uncomfortable, but that discomfort isn't a sign that I'm in the wrong place. It might be a sign that you're in the right place.

Sure.

And that discomfort comes before the healing. But don't give up too quickly.

Absolutely. And I know I've talked with different family members who have been to counseling, both for marital or individual, and they all say, you know, I needed to give it some time. But I remember specifically one of my family members saying, you know, she was talking to this lady, and the lady is highly educated, maybe the perfect counselor for someone else. But she said it's like she wanted to make a bigger deal out of this one issue than really, you know, like, I felt like I had dealt with that, and she wasn't hearing me on what I really was there for. And she gave it some time, but ultimately went with another counselor who ended up, you know, really getting what she needed help with. And it. It has been a huge difference for her. So I think that's something we're gonna have to pray about it and. And really ask God to show you. But be willing to give it some time. And it's not wasted money. I hear all the time people say, no, that's a waste of money. I mean, they're just gonna get in my head and they're gonna make it worse. And you guys, some of the best money we've ever spent, and it's been at times where we did not even really have the budget. Okay, Right.

Yeah.

Some of the best money we've spent has been on counseling. Because you do reach a crossroads a lot of times, whether personally or collectively as a married couple, where you've said everything you can say, you thought about everything that you yourself can think about, and you need someone else to come in there as a neutral party and say, this is the big. This is the rub here. This is where you guys are having friction. Or this is the thought that you're coming back to that has made a nest in your head and it's like festering. And you need to deal with this, because when we're so close to something, we have a tendency to have a lot of blind spots. And so we need someone who can come in there and help us take a step back and say, like, here's how we can move forward. And you guys, there's always a way forward. There's always a way.

So true.

And you have to cling to that.

That should be a bumper sticker, because it's true. There's always a way forward.

Absolutely.

And when you hit a hurdle, it doesn't mean this is a dead end. It just means like, all right, we're going to climb over this mountain. We're going to get around it. But there's always a way forward. You got to keep searching. That counseling can be the game changer to help you find the way forward.

Right.

You don't have to stay stuck. And that might be the one thing that you need to take away from this whole episode. You don't have to stay stuck. There's always a way forward. So, so good, guys. So reach out to those counseling resources that we've mentioned throughout this podcast. Getfaithful.com nakedmarriage for individual counseling, you can reach out to xomarriage.com help and also.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

No, that was basically it.

I'm so sorry. I just wanted to also say, in your church, don't go to your church. That's a great resource. They often have a list of Christian counselors, or you might even try pastoral counseling. But I do want to say Dave served as a pastor for many years. Pastoral counseling is awesome for maybe one or two Sessions, but it is not meant to be ongoing.

No, we're not trained for that.

Right. I'm becoming. I am being trained for that. You were trained, but we're not currently trained for that.

At the time that I was doing a lot of pastoral counseling, I could help people determine really their next step, which was often to just refer them straight to a counselor and bringing some.

Peace in the process.

I pray with them. I would help. You know, I'd listen to their situation and I'd offer some biblical insight. Well, here are a few things the Bible has to say about that specific issue. Here are a few thoughts maybe you hadn't considered. Now let's pray about it. Here's the next step I'd recommend. But it's not the same as sitting down with somebody ongoing and really working through the issue, which is something that most pastors are not trained or equipped to do. I certainly was not. And so I would tell people that up front and then refer them to someone that's getting the kind of training that Ashley's getting now and those that are trained biblical counselors, because that's where the ongoing, deeper help is going to come.

Right? Yeah.

So, guys, thanks for listening. We talk a lot more about kind of dealing with these past baggage issues in our upcoming book the Counterfeit Climax, which you can pre order now. We even share in some more detail some of the specifics of our own baggage that we've had to work through and how this can relate to your marriage and specifically your sex life. Because a lot of times past baggage can have present manifestations in that area. And this book, we believe, could be a part of the healing process for whatever you're working through and also just help you think some new thoughts and a path forward in the intimacy department.

Right.

So check that out. But now it's time for today's question. Yes, we love Q and A. Thanks. For those who send in these questions@nakedmarriagepodcast.com Sweetie, you want to read this one?

Sure. It says, when I reject my husband's advances for sex, he becomes angry. He won't speak to me for days and will sleep in another room. For me, this is a major push away response. When we have talked about it in the past, it's my fault, me not doing this or that. He apologizes for reacting the way he does, but then he goes and does it again. I pray for both of us, but I have reached the point of exhaustion with the subject and response. What can I do, man? I feel the frustration here and I really appreciate her honesty in sharing this, and I think a lot of women can relate to this.

Yeah, I think this dynamic is a fairly common dynamic.

Maybe not going in the other room necessarily.

Right. Maybe not the response, but the frustration of one spouse that has a much higher drive and feels like, this is my deepest need. You're the only place on earth where I can have this need met. And when you reject, when I sense rejection in this area, it is the most frustrating and intimate type of rejection. And I feel like if you knew how important this was to me, you would want to meet me in this place. But because you're pushing me away, it's like that you don't care about me. And for the other spouse, it's like, like, listen, I know you have needs. I have needs. I'm not wired the same. And for me to say, like, no, I'm not in the mood to do that right now, doesn't mean I'm rejecting you as a human being or trying to push you away. It's like, I just, you know, I'm not in the same place right now. I'm wired up completely differently. And so, you know, part of, part of what we do in this new Counterfeit Climax book is actually give a lot of specific conversation guides to kind of help couples talk through this. Like, you know, ask each other these questions to help couples have conversations that are going to lead to solutions in this area. Because here's the deal. The spouse that has the higher drive is not wrong, and the spouse who has the lower drive is not wrong. But what's wrong is to be disrespectful to one another or to disregard each other's needs, or in this case, you know, the husband's response is, is wrong. You know, to pout like a two year old and to stomp off. But he is also coming from a place where he probably feels desperate. And he's like, I want you to see how big a deal this is for me. But what he's actually doing is pushing his wife further away because she's not gonna want to have sex with someone who's acting like he's 2 years old. And so they're both in this cycle where they're exhausted and frustrated with each other. And instead of trying to focus on who's wrong here, which is never the right approach in these situations, it's just that you're both wired up very differently for you to talk together about, okay, what would it look like? What are some things we can do for our sex life to improve, that this is for this to be a priority for both of us. And we know it's going to look differently because we have different needs and different drives and desires. But what are some things that we could agree to do? And maybe for him it's saying, when you say no, I'm not going to throw a tantrum. And when I do, I know that what I'm actually doing is pushing you away and it's going to be harder for you to open up and be in the mindset to make love. And so I'm making the problem worse when I do that. And maybe for the wife it's saying, you know what, like I'm going to recognize that this is a deep need for him, you know, is important to him as whatever my very biggest need is. And I want to be so sensitive to him in that, looking to serve him in that way. And also just for the sake of our marriage, making this a priority, but to really talk through it. And it sounds like they are trying to talk about it, but it always leads back to this place.

Yeah. And to me, I think that maybe for him, maybe this is how it was handled. Like how conflict was handled in his home growing up. I don't know, I'm not making excuses about that because it doesn't make it right, but it sounds like this is a go to for him. And in his mind, I guarantee you, I don't know for sure, but I would venture to say that he's like, well, you are punishing me. Because he maybe sees it as a punishment for her denying him, even though clearly that's not at all.

It's not. But to him it's how it feels.

And so he's like, I'm punish you.

I'm going to punish you. Which is the wrong response.

I'm going to withhold affection from you, I'm going to withhold conversation from you. I'm going to make you feel as lonely as I feel in this moment. And you guys, we can never handle any situation like that in marriage. It's not a tit for tat. I'm going to give you what you gave me and or what I perceived that you gave me or didn't give me or whatever. It's not about punishing each other. That's a very childish way of handling it. And I know this wife knows that. And I will say, men, if you are listening to this or watching this anger towards your wife is a huge turnoff. Like the movies want to make this whole makeup sex Thing or, oh, I find your anger attractive. It's not. Okay. It is a huge turnoff. If you want to squash your lady's libido, be mad at her, okay? Because it is just a huge turnoff. And so he probably doesn't realize that, I mean, literally, you're doing the very opposite thing of what you want to happen. And so the best way to your wife's heart is talking to her. I mean, you've done the first step in saying you're sorry, which is great. But we're only as sorry as our action show.

True.

And if you're doing the same thing over and over again, you're not sorry. Dude, you gotta change what you're doing. And I'm sorry I just said dude, but this is how I talk to my kids when I'm telling them they're wrong.

She does. She's a very cool mom.

But, I mean, you're not. You gotta change something because it's not getting you anywhere. Both of you are frustrated, and so you're gonna have to try something new. This whole episode has been about counseling. I would say this is a time to go to counseling when you've had repeated behavior. And I'm sorry. And then the repeated behavior. I'm not saying your husband. The lady who wrote this. I'm not saying your husband's not trying. I think he really is trying. But you might need a professional to enter in here, because there's somewhere he goes in his mind that is going into his actions in this scenario that he's got to change. He's got to change his response to this. And maybe you've got to change some things too. I'm not saying it's all on him, but clearly this behavior has got to stop. It's very childish and degrading to her and disrespectful, too. And so I would. I would talk to a Christian counselor.

The frequency and the sex.

Oh, my gosh. No, not at all. It's breaking down intimacy on so many levels. And so I would encourage you to talk to a counselor about this. I think it would be very helpful.

Good words, good words. Thank you guys for your question, and thank you all for listening. As always. Thank you for listening or watching. If you're watching this on YouTube, we appreciate you. Hey, as a next step, if you want to stay connected to us, find us on social media if you haven't already. We're aveandashleywillis on Instagram. Or you can just search the word marriage on Facebook. And our Marriage page will pop up and we would love to connect with you wherever you are out in the social world. But thank you so much for being part of the Naked Marriage community and for the reviews for sharing this podcast with others. We appreciate you so much. We'll see you next time.

Sa.