When You Aren’t “Getting Any”

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Naked Marriage podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we Undress the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And man, we've got a great, great topic today we're going to be diving into in just a few minutes. It's related to sex, but a very specific aspect of it and one of the most common questions and issues that we get written about. So thank for. Thanks to you guys who write us. Thanks for those of you who help contribute by sending us your issues and your topics. And also thanks to those who leave reviews. When you leave a review on itunes or Spotify or wherever you're listening, you're helping other people discover this podcast. So my lovely bride Ashley is gonna read one of the recent reviews.

Yes, this is from Kayla Jean Hansen. It says, I have been following Dave and Ashley for a while now. So I was beyond excited when they started this podcast. My husband and I both listened to this podcast separately throughout the week and then come together and talk about. They offer both a husband and wife's perspective, and it's been interesting and insightful to see the different things that my husband and I take away from it. Well done for creating a podcast that not only encourages communication, but helps facilitate it. If you're married or even seriously dating, you need to subscribe asap. I love that. Like, that is awesome. And I love how they listen separately, but come together and talk about it. You know, we hear that a lot from couples. We were actually at the gym the other day and we, you know, this couple came up to us and we're like, we have listened. We listened to your podcast and now, you know, we're going to walk around the track of the gym and talk about it. And it just made us like, that's why we do. We love it.

It's why we do. What we do is to help you guys who are listening grow closer together and have some tools to help you communicate and have new conversations. And so thanks to all of you who are listening. It means a lot.

It does. So let's dive in.

We've got a pretty serious topic today, and it's one of the most common questions and issues that we get talked about, messaged about on Facebook and on email. Even just yesterday, a guy wrote us with this issue. And the issue is, what do I do when my spouse just doesn't want to have sex with me? And there are so many people and it's not a gender specific issue. You know, there are a lot of husbands who write us and Say, my wife won't have sex with me. But then there are a lot of heartbroken wives who write, yes. And they say, I don't know what the deal is. My husband won't have sex with me, or not nearly with the level of frequency that I desire. And that gap is creating distance in the marriage. It can create resentment in the marriage, and it can be a factor that ultimately will unravel a marriage altogether. And so it really is a big factor to address when one spouse feels sexually starved or sexually neglected and the other spouse just doesn't seem to have nearly the same libido or even concern for it. What do you do in that situation when there's a huge lopsided sex drive?

It's so hard. I mean, it really is. It's such a difficult thing to deal with because it is so important. And we talked about this so many times on this podcast, because it is so important that, you know, sex needs to be happening often. And there are, you know, very rare circumstances where maybe one or both partners can't, for whatever reason. But even in the Bible, this is not just our opinion, okay? Even in the Bible, it talks about this. It says to not refuse one another, to not withhold sex from one another. And it says, and if you do, let it be a short time, and let it be a time of, like, prayer and reflection.

With mutual consent.

With mutual consent, right.

That's the Bible's opinion, not ours. You might think, man, the Bible's talking that specifically about sex. Yes, because God wants your sex life and your marriage to thrive. He wants to safeguard you from the temptation and the frustration that comes when you neglect this sacred gift and responsibility of sex. And I think that we never wanna look at sex as a responsibility. We love looking at it as a gift, which it is, but it also is a responsibility. And you look what Paul wrote to the church in Corinth in the New Testament, and it's very, very specific about saying, like, listen, husbands, you're giving up in a lot of. You're giving up rights to your own body when you say, I do for the sake of your wife, wives, you're giving up rights to your own body for the sake of your husband. And that's part of what a covenant marriage is. It's putting the needs of the other ahead of your own. And so to challenge the person who's just not in the mood as much, I would say mood is not. There's so many factors bigger than mood. If you only do in your marriage what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it, then there's gonna come a time when your spouse just doesn't feel like being married anymore. And so if the trump card is, if I don't feel like it, I'm not gonna do it, then that means your spouse can say, well, I don't feel like talking to you, so I'm not gonna do it. I don't feel like showing kindness to you, so I'm not gonna do it. I don't feel like prioritizing time together, so I'm not gonna do it. And eventually you're gonna say, I don't feel like being married, so I'm not gonna do it anymore. I feel like getting a divorce attorney. We can't worship our feelings sometimes. We have to lead with our commitments and we have to lead with love and let our feelings catch up. And so now I know it's complicated, and it's with this issue of sex specifically because we don't want to just feel like, well, I don't want to just be this warm, lifeless body that is on call, on demand for my spouse, you know, anytime. I don't want to just be this lifeless sex doll that's there and has to meet their needs. Because obviously, sexual intimacy and fulfillment and is about so much more than that. And if one spouse is always expecting the other to fulfill desires in that. In that way, then you're missing out, really on what the gift of sex is altogether. But this, like all aspects of marriage, there has to be a fierce drive to serve the needs of the other spouse, right? And if. If one spouse has a high need for sex and you're not doing anything to meet that need, you got to think of it this way. You are the only legitimate source of sexual fulfillment on earth for your spouse. And so for you to starve them and neglect in that way, man, it's putting them in a terrible position. Like, if your spouse is hungry for food, there's lots of places they can go get food. If your spouse has a desire for whatever, there's lots of places they can go get it. But when it comes to sexual fulfillment, you as the spouse are the only source on earth, by God's design, that can fulfill that need. We're not meant to turn to pornography. We're not obviously meant to turn to other people. It's only for the marriage bed. And so, again, if you're neglecting that, and we're going to get into some of the medical reasons and hormonal reasons that can play into this, but I just want to first challenge that spouse that has just said, my spouse should be content with whatever timetable I give them, with whatever rations they get, whether I say it's once a week or it's twice a month, or it's once a month. And your other spouse might be saying, I want it every day, or I want it, you know, three times a week, or I really have this strong desire and I'm being rationed and I feel like I'm being starved by my other spouse. And it just, it creates so much distance. It creates pain and eventually resentment.

Yeah, definitely.

I just want to give that strong challenge, though, to the spouse that just feels like, well, I don't have the same need and so I don't need sex that much. And so he shouldn't either, or she shouldn't either. Because that mindset is so toxic. It's like saying, well, I don't need to talk that much, so she shouldn't need that much conversation. I'm not gonna give it to her. I don't need whatever. You can't base what your spouse needs only on what you need. You have to work to meet each other's needs.

It's so true. And I think this is something where people do kind of stick their heels in, so to speak, and are like, well, this is just how I feel. I'm sorry, I'm just not this crazy sexual person, you know, like, sorry, you know, and they just kind of toss up their hands. But again, just like what Dave said, this is an opportunity where we can serve each other and where we really need to serve each. And, you know, if we don't have the higher need, we probably need to ask our spouse, like, you know, would you like to have sex today or are you in the mood today? Because we're not gonna. Again, we don't have that higher need for sex, and so we don't maybe have the need for as much frequency as our spouse. So this is something where you want to talk to them because again, you don't want to hang them out to dry and leave them starving. And not to say that this is some kind of excuse. Excuse for the sex starved spouse to go out and do these things. So please do not misunderstand us in this. Like, you cannot look at your spouse and be like, well, you're not having sex with me as much as I want, so that's why I have a porn problem. You know, like, you can't use that as an excuse. But I do want to say, for the sex that doesn't have as much of a need for sex as their spouse. You know, try. Try your best to really meet that need because it's going to bring you closer together. It's gonna help your spouse to not be, you know, having more temptation in their life because they do have a higher sex drive, but it's also. It's really gonna help their mood. I mean, that's something in our relationship, we've been very open about this. Dave has the higher need for sex than me as far as frequency. Like, he. He just needs it more often. That's probably more information than you wanted to know. But I'm just being real here. And so it's something where I will ask him. Like, I. I'm just really open and honest with him and like, hey, you ready? And I've noticed that you are the.

Best spouse on the planet.

Let me say this. I haven't always been that way, though. Like, for a long time, I would get frustrated, and I kind of wasn't exactly probably meeting his need for frequency. And so it's something I've had to learn. But I will say, the more sex that we have, the more I want to have sex. And I've talked to other couples about that, and that's a pretty universal thing. Like, the more you have it, the more you want it. And so the less you have it, the less you want it. So if you already have, like, a low sex drive and you're not having sex often at all, then you probably never think about it.

Yeah. Because you're conditioning yourself to not need it when your spouse is just dying a thousand deaths and starving. Even if you're doing it and you're thinking, like, I'm not even fully into it right now. Well, you don't have to be. Just think of it at first as like, I'm doing this as a way to serve.

I just want to help my right. I want to honor my spouse. I want to do this for them.

I'm gonna do, just to get blunt and practical, I'm gonna give a few minutes even of my day to, like. Cause if they're that ready to go, it's probably not even gonna take long. So to help meet a need that they can't get met any other place, and I'm telling you, is the spouse who has a high need for sex, when that need is met, that spouse with the need feeling like that it's being met, they're gonna want to serve your needs in every way. I really feel like every other aspect of the Marriage will start to improve. Your communication, your connection outside the bedroom will start to get so much better. That spouse will get so much more attentive to your needs when that need is being met for them. And so you have to make it a priority. And if maybe you're there and you're just like, well, there's this medical issue. We're actually gonna do a future episode specifically on when maybe there's something hindering even reaching an orgasm and you feel like you can't even get there. And that's creating a stumbling block in your marriage. And that's. That's a little bit of a separate issue. And we're going to talk about it specifically. But for this issue of just not really being in the mood, not wanting to do it as much, oftentimes there is a medical or hormonal or psychological reason behind it. And instead of just saying, well, I'm not feeling it, and so I'm not going to do it, your feelings cannot be trusted in nearly any part of your life. God never gave us feelings to be the compass by which we make our decisions. Because feelings are deceitful. And so instead of basing on your feelings, say, I know that it's important that we have a healthy, thriving sex life as part of our marriage. That's not happening. And frankly, I'm not feeling it right now. But instead of just saying, well, I'm not feeling it, so it's not a big deal, say, no, we're gonna prioritize this, and I'm gonna get checked out whether it's a medical issue, a hormonal issue. You're smiling. You're, like, laughing. I am.

Because, I mean, I'll just share this. Do you want me to just share?

You share whatever you want. Okay.

So, like, after our fourth child, I think it was after Chatham, I just. And this. Women who've had kids. Your hormones are all over the place during the pregnancy and after the pregnancy. And one thing that can often happen is you can have heightened sexual needs during the pregnancy. And then all of a sudden, after they go, like, totally, like, you don't have any need for it. And plus, if you're nursing and you're chasing around kids, I mean, it's just. You don't feel sexual at all. It's like working breasts. So it's like, even your body, you're just like, I'm just like, I don't feel sexual. So, like, I went through this period of time where I just could tell that, you know, I don't have as high of a desire as Dave, but I do have desire. But all of a sudden, this desire just wasn't there as much. And it kind of worried me. I was concerned. And I was concerned for our marriage too. Even though I knew I was gonna do my best to fulfill Dave's needs. I wanna enjoy this too, because I know that sex is best when we're both really into it, right?

Yes.

And so I went to this doctor who is a do. I think it's like, doctor of osteopath. And they do, like, extensive blood testing. They do more than, like, your average doctor's office. And so I got this full workup and found out that I had very, very low testosterone. And in case you didn't know, guys, ladies have testosterone too, right? Not as much as a man, but I had, you know, for where a woman my age at the time should have been, it was very low. And so she said, like, we have some options to help you. I also had, like, low vitamin D. I found out a lot of different things, so she put me on some supplements. And then she said, we have this option of, like, a natural hormonal booster, basically. And it's called Bio Identical hormones. And I'd never heard of it. I researched it because I know you don't wanna mess. You know, you gotta be very careful with these things. And it's basically a pellet that they put in your hip. And it sounds really bizarre, but it's a real thing. And now that we live in Texas, it's, like, really big in Texas. I've seen commercials about it. So anyway, it's like, you know, it's all over the place. And they've been doing this in Europe for, like, a long time, Even longer than America has been doing this. But anyway, they put in a pellet based on kind of how low your hormones are. And this just boosts your testosterone. Now, if you have low estrogen, it can boost your estrogen. So with testosterone, though, it increases your sex drive, and it also makes you feel better. It helps you get better sleep. It helps you with your muscle tone. There's all these different things.

You did grow a beard, which was weird.

I did not grow a beard. No, you did. If you have too much testosterone, though, I'm sure it would probably have those kind of side effects. But anyway, in the short term, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try this. And I got a low dose of it. And let me tell you, it definitely. Oh, my gosh, it definitely does things.

It was the greatest Era of my life. Like, she's chasing me around the bedroom.

Oh, my gosh. I don't know if it was like that.

And I would have to say, I'm not just a piece of meat here. For your dream.

That's your favorite.

No, it was my dream. It was amazing.

Well, the reason I share this, and I know, guys, you probably hear way too much about us than you'd really like to know, but I want to share this because it takes the stigma off of it. And I've. In personal circles, I've shared this because I think sometimes we're like, oh, I don't know if that seems extreme. I don't know if I want to do that. But for me, I think I.

What seems extreme is not having sex in your marriage.

Well, right, Exactly.

I think we need to redefine what extreme is. I think that it's healthy to take whatever measure is necessary to prioritize it. Like, you did. And I was so thankful that you did. I felt really loved. You know, like, acts of service is my primary love language, and it was an act of service in a really beautiful and intimate way for you to say, like, I want to be at my best, you know, physically, hormonally, in every way, so that we can be at our best with the sexual aspect of our marriage. And so I felt so close to you, not only because we were having sex more frequently, which was awesome, but because simply, you had made the effort to make that happen. And so it meant a lot. I mean, it really meant a lot. And I think if you're listening and you're that spouse that doesn't have higher drive, then taking those steps, even just taking those steps, saying, I want to do whatever I need to do to help be at our best. And I actually went through a season where I did something similar. I ended up getting blood work done. I was feeling real lethargic and just didn't feel good. And some blood work showed that I had this thyroid disorder, and that had impacted all different kinds of things in my body, including my testosterone was way, way low, you know, So I. I had to think, what am I gonna do? Because for the first time in my life, I didn't have any sex drive. Like, I really didn't. And I even had anxiety about sex because I was afraid.

But it made you have anxiety. Yeah, because you were like, I don't know if I'm going to feel this or not. Like, I don't know where I'm going to be. Right.

I didn't know If I'd be able to perform, just to be, like, you know, very blunt, this is not an issue I ever dreamed that I would have, but here I am, you know, feeling like I don't know if I'm even gonna be able to make love, which is just a terrifying feeling and really an embarrassing one. And so we share every embarrassing detail of our lives for you guys to just try to help you, because if it helps you, then it's worth it. So I got the thyroid thing taken care of, got on medication, started altering my diet a little bit. Not with the level of discipline I need to have. I still like ice cream way too much. And started taking natural supplements. There are tons of them out there that are vitamins. So not actually taking testosterone, but there are.

Well, you wanna say something?

Natural supplements.

Horny Goat weed.

Yeah, I tried that.

It's literally called Horny Goat weed.

I tried that, which was just fun. I saw that stuff sold in gas station bathrooms, and then I became the guy. It's really sold in bathrooms, in men's rooms. Yeah. Like the shady places next to colored condoms and stuff.

I guess you think differently about it.

So, yeah, you can get it there. But I only took that a few times. What I ended up taking that was, like, really helpful was this. This variety of vitamins that was designed to help naturally boost testosterone. It didn't contain testosterone, but, guys, you can get this stuff anywhere. Women, there. I'm sure there are natural supplements made for you that are absolutely. That are similar, like, you know, B vitamins and then a lot of other things that just help your body's chemistry get right. But the bottom line with all this, it isn't us trying to push any kind of product or. You know, obviously, none of these people are sponsoring the podcast.

No. And we are not doctors.

We're not doctors.

We're just telling you our personal stories and things that can help.

But what we're challenging you to do, beyond trying any specific brand or product or pathway, is to just make effort, keep making effort until you find something that works for you. You know, I mean, I took some supplements that didn't seem to do anything, and then I would stop and I would start taking something else. But it's like, you've got to make the effort to say, I want to be at my best physically, sexually, mentally, spiritually, in every way. I want to be at my best as a way to honor God, as a way to serve my spouse, and as a way to be at my best for my family and those who depend on me. And don't settle for anything less, you know, because when you're in that feeling of a funk and you're tired, it's easy to just kind of be reclusive and say, well, this is just how I'm feeling. Everybody else can deal with it, and that's not the way to live. And we've got to step up and we've got to make some changes sometimes.

It's so true. And, you know, just to follow up on my story with the bioidentical hormone pellet, I only. I think I did two rounds of that. And then I noticed how I was after. I knew that it had kind of fizzled out of my system. Because you basically, it pulls. Your body pulls from that pellet the testosterone that it needs, which is really cool. And it's bioidentical, so it's all natural, really cool thing. But I found that after I knew that it had run its course, which I think it lasts about 4, 4 months at a time, I was like, you know what? I'm feeling more like myself. And so it was just that boost that my body needed to kind of become back to normal. And so I didn't continue doing it, and I haven't done it in years. And, you know, I don't currently need it. But it is something where I would, if I felt like I was lacking energy, my sex drive was low, I wasn't sleeping well, I would do that again in a heartbeat. And I know Dave even considered it with his hormonal issues too. So it is something that, you know, you might wanna consider. But no matter what, just be willing to do whatever it takes to get your body kind of in the right state to have a healthy sex drive and to want to do it. But I also think one thing we really need to talk about here that's like, the medical side of things is sometimes it's mental. I think we have this mental game going on in our minds where we're like, I don't need that, or we're kind of mad at our spouse. And maybe we don't even realize that we have this built up kind of hidden resentment towards our spouse. And so whether we realize it or not, we're kind of punishing them by withholding sex. And that is a terrible place to be. And we need to realize that, you know, what's really going on in our mind and heart. And we need to talk about that and find healing through that. Because, I mean, we've seen that kind of thinking and that kind of Behavior ruin marriages. And so we've really got to get on top of that and talk to our spouse about it and say, listen, I am so sorry that I've been withholding sex from you, and there's no excuse for this. But when I've really prayed about this and thought about this, what it comes down to is I don't feel like you really care about me. Like, I don't feel like you actually love me. You know, I think sometimes there's these deep wounds that we have, and then we retaliate by withholding sex. So we've got to talk through those things. I mean, that's the whole point of a naked marriage, is being naked in your conversations, being. Being naked about your thoughts, your emotions.

That's so true. And for the spouse who's sexually frustrated, you've gotta fight the urge to just respond to your spouse with sarcasm or with demands or with, oh, yes, the pressure, constant pressure. Even though everything in your body is feeling that and maybe feeling building resentment. You've got to serve your spouse by just letting them know what you need and desire, but then refusing to pressure and looking for ways to connect outside the bedroom. Be willing to showing affection with them and physical touch that is intentionally not meant to lead towards sex. You know, whether it's giving that foot rub, that back rub, and not just in a way like, okay, I touched you and massaged you. Now meet my needs. Now hopefully it'll happen. But you have to be willing to do these things without the expectation. I know that is so difficult, but this is how you can serve your spouse. Just serve them in different ways without asking for anything in return. Pray together. I think praying together about every aspect of your marriage and even specifically about your needs and your sex drive, that's something to pray about. Absolutely. Prayer is one of the most intimate acts. In some ways, it's as intimate as sex itself. When you're praying together with your spouse. And I think that God could use that to bring your hearts closer together, which eventually could bring your bodies closer together. And then if nothing else is really having the desired outcome, then do be willing to seek medical attention and also seek counseling. Sometimes sitting down with a Christian counselor. Make sure it's a Christian counselor. You know, we knew a couple from church that was in the situation, and in their case, the husband wanted sex with a lot of frequency. The wife just really, really didn't. And it had become a huge sticking point in their marriage. And they went to just a secular counselor and he said, or she said, I Don't know if he was a man or a woman, but said, the best thing I can advise for you guys if you want your marriage to last is to have an open marriage. She said, you just need to give him permission to go and meet his need with other women and be okay with that. And so they were horrified.

They were. They knew it was wrong.

As Christians, and just for the record, that's terrible, terrible advice. But when you're out there in the world and people aren't coming from a biblical worldview, you just don't know know what kind of advice you're going to get. And so God's plan is that you're in a lifelong monogamous relationship. There is no area or person or outlet for sexual fulfillment outside of your spouse and outside of the marriage. And so don't bring anything or anyone else into that, but also work hard to make sure that you can, you can, you know, keep moving forward.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, we've kind of touched on this, but just to kind of go deeper with this is you got to have these gut level, honest conversations with each other now. You need to do it in a loving way, not an accusing way, or not in a, in a way where you're just trying to hurt your spouse. But you do need to share the hard truths. Like if you are asking your spouse, which you do need to do this, like if your spouse never wants to have sex, you need to go to him and say, listen, I can tell that you just have no desire for me right now. And you seem to always just shut down when I make any sexual advances towards you. What is it? Have I done something wrong? And I think if you approach your spouse by asking what you've done wrong, it's very disarming.

Yeah, it's very disarming.

And just say, even if, like in your mind, you're like, I know I haven't done anything wrong, you need to go to them and ask because maybe you have and you just don't realize it. And it's not something you did intentionally to hurt them or a need that you're not meeting. I mean, it could be lots of things. And just go and ask them and be prepared for an honest, maybe difficult answer to hear. And once you hear it about you.

Or it could, I mean, or about them, it could be a sexual abuse issue. You know, a lot of people are carrying these deep wounds of sexual abuse and they have a hard time, you know, with just the act of sex itself without identifying it with a horrific Experience from their past. You've got to be willing to talk about all these things.

Yes.

You know, you've got to be willing to confess. Sometimes, guys, if your wife comes to you and she's like, why do you never want to make love? And you've got this porn and masturbation problem where you're meeting this need on your own terms, on your own. Which is wrong. It is absolutely so wrong. We talk about porn a lot. It's sadly part of my past and a sin that we had to work through. But there's no place for that in marriage. But you've got to be willing to get all of that out, whatever the secret might be, whatever the issue might be, and talk about it now. So sometimes it is a sin issue or hurt issue. Sometimes it's something else. And sometimes they might not even know why they're not feeling it. But you have to be willing to talk about it. And also know that just because your spouse might not be the one who initiates doesn't mean that they don't want to do it. So don't take it personally if they're not initiating as much as you are. Right.

I remember during one season of our marriage, we've been married almost 18 years this month, so we're so excited. I know it's almost anniversary, but we. You know, I remember there was a time, I can't even remember when, probably in the middle somewhere, where Dave was just like, you don't ever seem to initiate, you know? And I remember distinctly me saying, sweetie, I would like to initiate, but you kind of always beat me to it, you know, Like, I don't really get a chance to. Because again, like, he had the higher. Has the higher need and the high frequency. I did. I was like, I never get a chance.

Give me a chance. Cause every five minutes I'm trying to initiate. And so.

But you didn't even know, like. Cause you really thought in your mind, you just thought, I never, like, wanted to initiate sex. And it wasn't that I didn't want to. I really just did not have the chance because my need for frequency was a little lower. And so, you know, Dave would beat me to it. So anyway. And I think it kind of gave you a new understanding because you were like, oh, she does want to be with me. She. She is attracted to me. I'm just the one who's always initiating because I have the higher need for frequency.

Yeah. So again, just talking through these things, communicating is always the best foreplay, and it's always Just the way to. To get to the root of whatever's going on in your marriage.

Absolutely.

So this has been a great discussion. If. Hey, if you guys want to continue this discussion or have some tools to help you continue this discussion, we've got a couple books that I think could really help. One is called the Naked Marriage. Same as the podcast. And if you're not a reader, but you're clearly a listener because you're listening to this. The Naked Marriage is available as an audiobook on Amazon and on itunes, and.

It'S with us narrating.

Yeah. So it's us talking through it, and we had so much fun doing that, sharing a lot of our own story along the way. We also have a book called the Naked Truth About Sex, which you can get on Amazon. You can also find these resources@marriagetoday.com we're part of the. The Wonderful Marriage ministry at Marriage Today. And you can find a bunch of resources from us and from Jimmy Evans and others as well. And so we're getting ready to move into a summer season with our podcast. And I am so stoked about what's happening this summer because over this past year, we've had sessions during the XO Tour. If you've never been to one of our XO Marriage Conference tour stops, we'd love to see you in the Future. Go to xomarriage.com you can learn more. But this past year, we ended our final session with a Q and a, a live Q and A where we took questions from the audience in real time, and we answered the biggest questions about marriage. Some of the questions were really funny and fun. Some were very, very serious and heartfelt. And then we've taken those because we had such positive feedback from those who were. Who were there at those live events for the Q and A that we said, we've got to share this with our podcast listeners. Yes. So we're creating episodes this summer that are just building on the recorded answers from those live Q and A sessions from the XO conferences this past spring. Man, there were some great, great questions that we got. And so I hope that as we're taking a little bit of a break from the regular style of the program over the summer that you guys will be really encouraged by that. I'm so excited to share those episodes with you.

That's right. We can't wait. And we hope you guys are gearing up for summer and that you have a great summer and listen to these Q and A sessions. They're awesome. And it might answer some of your burning questions. Because, you know, we get some really great questions out of those. So we hope to see you guys next time.