Deb Coviello: How Can Leaders Cultivate Peace of Mind in Times of Crisis?

Welcome to Media Minds with your host David Wolf.

Welcome to Media Minds. Joining us on this edition is Deb Koviello. Deb, I hope I got your name exactly right.

You got it.

Amazing. You are known as the Drop-In CEO. Superpower, Deb, and I know this about her, is lowering the temperature and elevating conversations with empathy and patience. Oh, do I love this subject matter. The world needs more of what you're doing, Deb Koviello. You're a speaker, an author, podcaster, and consultant. You teach C-suite leaders how to establish this idea of Lift, Light, and Lead. This creates this context, this environment in a world where there's a lot of chaos and a lot of crisis. So you're also the author of The CEO's Compass: Your Guide to Get Back on Track, and also The New CEO Playbook: Stop Chasing Results— this is interesting— and Start Pursuing Peace of Mind. What a concept. And of course, you're the host of your own long-running podcast, uh, The Drop-In CEO, which is your brand. And congratulations, you're 1.5% in the top among Apple Podcasts.

Welcome to the program. Thank you so much for the opportunity. We've known each other for a while, but I am ready to jump in and, uh, put a spotlight on you and share my insights with your audience. So thank you so much.

Well, listen, absolutely. You know, I was going to say, this will be terrific because, you know, I run a small business and, uh, Everything, the work you do certainly applies to me. So I'll have some natural and organic curiosity as we talk about the work you're doing. So the concept for Drop-In CEO, that's like a structural thing. Where did that come from?

So it just fell out of my mouth one day early on when I was being podcast interviewed. Again, I really didn't have a brand. And the host said, Deb, what is it that you do? And I said, well, I am like the drop-in CEO. I drop into businesses, partner with the C-suite leader, assess the landscape, and elevate the people for a lasting impact. And there was a lot more around that. But then he said at the end of the interview, "Deb, that's brilliant. Where did you come from?" And I said, "I don't know. It just came out of my mouth." But then I said, "Wait a second. I was thinking of a CEO that worked with me early in my career that dropped in during a time of crisis. And he rolled up his sleeves, helped myself and the VP of operations get through the issue, and also gave us confidence that we could sustain it. And then they pulled him out and they dropped in an IPO team. I remember what he did and how he made me feel, and that is exactly how I operate when I drop into businesses. So didn't own it for about 6 months, they were pestering me, this podcast company, and then I said, ah, let's finally do it. And I adopted the drop-in CEO as the podcast and also a trademarked brand.

Brilliant. So this concept of Lift, Light, and Lead, I mean, it kind of sounds like it what might be, but how— when you go in and work with a CEO or work with the team or however you administer, you know, the program. How does that— where do you start from and what are some of the challenges that you find as you unpack the business and the leadership and the culture?

So before I get there, a quick story. Where did Lift Light Lead come from? Well, early in my brand building, I realized I had to kind of get a little pithy, a little bit, you know, swanky in terms of branding. And while I was on one of my first consulting gigs, believe it or not, on the back of a napkin, I started writing 3 words that were started with the same, same letter. And out of that came Lift, Light, and Lead. And while I put that napkin away for about 4 or 5 years, I still practice that today. So Lift, I go in and lift leaders and by shining a light on their gifts, such that they can lead better and, you know, leave their legacy. What it is, is sometimes leaders, when they are in a role, they know their strengths, their weaknesses, but they don't know their gifts. I just have a way with an external perspective. I go in and not only look at the organization, but I look at the leadership and say, do you realize you have— you're already acting as a CEO. You're already doing this. Do you see yourself as an equal? And by shining a light, I kind of lift them up a little bit, give them a bit more confidence because ultimately they've got these underutilized gifts that actually help them build more confidence and lead in a different way. So that's kind of my gift to an organization is not just do the work that I'm asked to do, but leave the people in a better place.

And that's interesting because it sort of gets at the idea of imposter syndrome, if we like, or the identity of a CEO leading a company, right? I mean, that really kind of— this shining the light idea. I mean, do you find that some CEOs don't realize the role they find themselves in and don't understand their own gifts? I suppose that's baked in.

Yeah, I mean, exactly it. Again, they come in and ask me to solve either a crisis or some kind of transformation they need to go through. But I have to look at them, right, and their mindset and who they are as leaders, because nothing I'm going to do is going to be sustainable unless we shine a bit of a light on them. Now, I'm going to just— you triggered me. Imposter syndrome. Somebody is making a lot of money off that concept. It's really when you get to the top, it's quite lonely. And sometimes they don't have a support system. They can't turn to the people. They can't turn to a significant other, a partner. A drop-in CEO is that person that can see what they can do or what they forgot they were able to once do. They just need that reminder of their gifts and then it totally changes their mindset, their game, and how they lead.

So the light is part of that, shining the light on them so that they have a recognition about who they really are and what they're super good at.

I mean, I just had an instance yesterday where I'm working with a vice president of operations and the way he had his self-awareness, he positioned himself for his next 60, 90, 120 days. I'm just looking at them. And I said, do you realize you are already speaking and behaving as a CEO? Forget about this VP stuff. When you go in and talk to the CEO over there, you are an equal because you already have what it takes. They just don't realize that they already are ready for the next level. They just think because, well, I haven't done it before, therefore, you know, how can I be successful? God darn it. You gotta look back at all the times where you didn't know how to do something and you figured it out. Why can't you project that forward? I bring that forward, shining a light on their gifts so they can lead in the way that they already know how to. They just don't realize it.

Wow.

What other types of challenges as you go in and start working with the CEO do you find? I hate the word trends may not be the word I'm looking for, but, you know, are you seeing an arc of some kind, some continuity across the client bases, the folks that you work with?

Yeah, so I would say I am brought in more at a time of crisis versus a time of transformation. And the problem with CEOs is that— I was going to mention that. But based on their past experience and their success rate, they are the go-to person to get through any crisis and they wait too long to ask for help. And so by doing so, what might have been just a little bit of an uneasiness or starting to get some complaints from customers eventually gets to a crisis situation and their customers are leaving. You can call me in to solve those issues. I am happy to do so. It is much more expensive even with the relationships you have. They don't have the courage to ask for help and I'm advising leaders. At the point where you're starting to feel uneasy and you and your team are exceeding capacity and capability, that's the time to get your support system, get advice, or bring somebody in. Don't do it alone. Your superpower, your pride, is also your demise. Ask for help a little sooner.

That is really interesting, this fear of wanting to ask for help. Is there a gender specificity to that? Do you find more of that with men than women, or it's kind of equal, or it's not?

It's not a thing. It's not a thing, though I will say in my line of work, just by pure statistics, 60 to 70% of the people that hire me happen to be men. They're in that position. Um, women, women do, you know, hire me as well, but again, they are all celebrated to be that go-to person. They can get through any crisis, they can do it, and with their resourcefulness. And once they've exceeded that capability I once dropped into a company where they're having a recall. They haven't been able to replace a senior leader in their organization and they're getting ready to shut a plant down. Had they called me in 6 months earlier, it might have been a little bit less damaging, but happy to help.

Yeah, yeah. It sounds like a lot of the types of crises that you've encountered— stop me if I'm wrong— tend to be like product-oriented and externally focused, or are there sometimes internal people crises that you find They call you in to help understanding folks, and we're saying all your preferences to work on the character, the leader, the, the, the way they approach what they do, the who they are in their role. But when it is a more transactional kind of crisis management thing, is it internal, external? Does it, you know, what kinds of—

Well, it usually starts from the inside out. If they had the right management practices and behaviors, they may have been able to avert a crisis. So I have been brought in when there was toxic leadership and they had to fire them. Why did they hold onto that leadership so long? Okay, I drop in. I've been brought in at a time where they have a recall. Well, maybe their systems for making sure that they manage risk properly, or were they one of those planetary leaders? Like, let's wait for the planets to line up before we take action. They roll the dice and they become the next person in the news. Those are the kinds of crises that I'm seeing usually sourced from internal. Not from economic, political, or pandemic-oriented. It usually starts with the leadership. Anything that happens, don't talk about, oh, that person made a mistake, let's fire them. There is always a symptom that leads to a condition that leads to a lack of a management practice that needs to be addressed at every single trend along the way. I'd love to work with people to kind of peel the onion on that. And what do you need to fix from a systemic perspective? Those are the trends that I'm seeing. And gosh darn it, too many people just don't ask for help soon enough.

I love the way you're thinking about this and the way you're explaining those situational characteristics of leaders and how they can find themselves in these situations. It's all so fascinating. Let's unpack the book a little bit, if that's okay. So, The CEO's Compass, which is the newer—

that's the new one? The CEO's Compass, for which your company has also helped me record the audiobook. Was published in 2021, Your Guide to Get Back on Track. The other one is aspirational and will get written in 2025. I simply had to prioritize, but I can talk about that as well, what it's going to be.

Yeah, let's talk about both and kind of like how— what's your approaches and what you, what you want the, uh, to readers to walk away from.

So the CEO's Compass, Your Guide to Get Back on Track, just the inspiration was I talked a lot about my thoughts and what I had seen, uh, businesses do wrong. I had to distill it into something that was actionable for a CEO, but anybody can use it. But it's one of those things that I do talk about the 7 compass points that ultimately get you to true north, or peace of mind, people, process, past, pride, performance, etc. But it starts with— and I remember the first chapter is not my cookie-cutter approach. It starts with the leader. And it basically says in the very first chapter, I see you. I see you looking out the window wondering how you're going to get through this next crisis. So many leaders are excellent what they do, but they get to this juncture where the ecosystem, they can no longer manage it. So I do start with saying, if you're not ready to make a change in who you are as a leader, put the book down. I actually tell the reader, put the book down. But anyway, so basically it's create your own adventure. Most leaders are only off in a couple places, go through the book and pick the areas where they think that they need to shore up this process so they can get back to true north. Now, as a follow-up to that, the second book was, I really, really, really realized was that leaders actually have to make a major mindset shift. And so when I talk about stop— the new CEO playbook, stop chasing results and start pursuing peace of mind, they have to have the courage to say, to have discipline to stakeholders to say, I know you're looking for results. I know you're looking for that EBITDA or that bottom line improvement, but have the discipline to be able to fix the processes and the systems and unleash the potential of their people. As a leading indicator, because when you do that hard work, you won't just get the results one quarter and then you don't get them and then you have to beat the people until you get it. But you ultimately get sustainable results. The other leaders that are firefighters that just high-five, work people to death, they'll get the results because they're results-oriented and that's how they're celebrated. They are never celebrated for achieving peace of mind. So I go into great detail into what is peace of mind, what are the things they need to do differently leading indicators, and also the discipline to have the courage to say, I'm in this for the long game. Those are the dimensions of the books, and I can't wait to get the second one out and have you record the audio with me.

Oh, I love that. And I actually need to read it and/or listen. I would like to do that because this all relates to— and I said this earlier at the beginning of this segment— it all relates to all of us as leaders. I'm sure there's a lot of golden, golden stuff. I was going to ask, so who are your influences in the work you do? Even before maybe you started the drop-in concept, who impacted you? You're so rich with wisdom about how to be a leader. I have to say it the most simple way because it's so encompassing. The word compass is inside the encompass. But who are there? Are there any, a couple of folks that you could point to that you've studied, you've read biographies, you worked for them or with them?

Well, it's interesting. I mean, how did I come into my own leadership? It only became, it only became to be after suffering a lot of mishaps or overutilizing strengths that later became my demise. And this is also part of who I am and what I do. I did not have a strong support system. Nor a mentor or anybody that gave me actionable advice. One leader says, you need to get your MBA. Well, why? Well, that was just the trend, but it did nothing to be able to move me forward. Or if I made a mistake along the way, said, Deb, don't do that. Okay, well, where's my support? How should I do? What actions shall I take? So it came from—

It's a no.

My own experience of having a lack of a support system. Now fast forward, I soon realized I needed to behave differently as a leader, not just chase results, but Unleash Potential, the sum total of my 30-plus years experience. I realize what you should do as a leader and what you should not do as leader. So that is the basis for it. But I will say along the way, I have read some great authors that probably came once I jumped into my, my entrepreneurial life, like Dorie Clark, Stand Out, and all of her books. You have to stand out, collect your own ideas and know what presence is like. Who are you as a person? What are your talking points? Start standing out versus just fading in. That was one thing I learned as well later in life. So I honestly, I didn't have any particular person that I role modeled from, but I saw examples of good leadership, bad leadership, and no leadership, and how I formulated my own, for which others are now following some of my work.

Wow.

It's, it's a set.

The book is The CEO's Compass: Your Guide to Get Back on Track. And forthcoming will be the new CEO playbook, Stop Chasing Results and Start Pursuing Peace of Mind, which I also love that. And that's sometime in the future.

Yeah, absolutely. And peace of mind, I just want to throw in here, is really a state of being. If you don't know what peace of mind is, you need to do some self-reflection. I remember peace of mind being a time when we had a major crisis in a manufacturing company, produced training videos to try to avert and train people to do the right thing. But when a technician comes in to view and I'm filming this particular item, they— I said, do you want to actually do the training? He said yes. And when that individual who is so close to our customer says, this is what you need to do, why you need to do it, and if you don't do it this way, this is how you're going to impact the customer. And I just remember I got goosebumps during that moment because I realized we did all the right work to set our people up to understand what they're doing and why they're doing it and the final impact. I realized I've done everything. I have peace of mind. This person is going to protect the customer. This person is gonna protect the business. Those are moments in time that I think C-suite leaders don't necessarily recognize. But when you have those moments or you see a relative or a child walk across the university stage and they've got a job, they've got their degree, you know, your work is done and you have some peace of mind. Peace of mind is a state of being you try to get to in the workplace as well as your personal life.

Oh, I just love that. Um, for those watching and listening, uh, we can reach you on LinkedIn, of course, Deborah Coviello, C-O-V-I-E-L-L-O, forward slash Drop In CEO, like the brand. Of course, the website's one and the same, the drop, dropinceo.com, just like it sounds. And, uh, so glad we could do this, and I'm looking forward— I'm gonna go grab the book now because, uh, I'm excited about the work you're doing, and I think it absolutely applies to how I'm trying to grow my own self as a leader.

So maybe we'll have another conversation about that. But I so appreciate it. I mean, I just love conversing with you, David. It's so easy. And I love you shining a light on my work as well.

Absolutely. Well, this is part of what we're here to do on Media Minds. So thanks again, Deb Koviello. We'll see you next time. We'll have that conversation. And, uh, uh, till next time. Thanks for joining us on Media Minds.

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