S4:E7 Allied Health Clinic Playbook Case Study with Renee Kelly

whoever's listening to this, you're not going to be the person that makes the difference here. It's finding your systems champion who will be your magical unicorn, your wingman that will make this happen.

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Renee, you're a little bit of a legend. You don't even know it, but you are Systemology royalty. We've had so many discussions over the years.

I've—

it's been an absolute pleasure to watch your journey. And I remember the first call that we had. We had first it was you and Matt, your husband. And we were talking about Lyme therapy, and I've just watched the business change and grow. You've got your systems champion, Caleb.

Yep.

And your story is great. I'll make sure I pop a link to some of our previous interviews just so people can follow along with the journey. You've had some significant milestones in your business career, and one that's really prompted us to catch up today with the acquisition, which we'll talk a little bit more about. But maybe just to start to get some people up to speed, can you tell us a little bit about Lime Therapy, what you guys do, who you do it for, and why you do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That's a very generous introduction. Systemology royalty. I'll perhaps think about a crown that I, that I might wear around the, around work. So Lime Therapy is a multidisciplinary allied health service. So started as occupational therapy. So I'm an occupational therapist by trade. The moved into employing other occupational therapists back in the earlier days. And then as the need in the community grew to be multidisciplinary, we employed physiotherapists, starting with Shane and Helen, who really kicked off the business in being a true allied health multidisciplinary practice, having that OT and physio. And then gradually we had speech pathology, exercise physiology join, and we provide clinic-based intervention and also community working in the private sector. But we also have government contracts, so we're a little bit special in that we can act like a government public service, but we're actually a private— yeah, a private business.

Something— we had a little bit of a chat just before we even started recording, and you said something that I'd love you to tell me a little bit more about is, were you called to do this work, or were you called to be a business owner? As in, is this what you're meant to do? And I see the love and the passion in the work that you do. It comes through Lyme therapy, and that's— it's magnetic. I'd love to know if that's something that you have recognized.

Yeah, we have come to recognize it. I didn't at the start. I thought I was doing a job and I had a career. But what I have come to learn through what we do at Lime Therapy, we— it is a calling. The people I feel that are drawn to Lime are very similar in it's more than a career.

Yeah.

And we've termed that the Lime Way and have woven into everything that we do the Lime Way, whether it's ourselves and how we conduct ourselves, how we work as a team, how we interact with our clients, our families, and then that broader community, our key stakeholders and those people that, yeah, that need our service. Interestingly, we were able to weave those values, the Lime Way, into our systems, which, not meaning to have a segue into that, policies and procedures did not reflect who we were and how we do things the Lime Way. And to be able to have confidence in how we have systemised our service that embeds that, that was key and is why we have so much confidence in where we are now and the service that we provide.

Is this like your DNA then, that in these systems and processes, like you've figured out the Lime Way, which is the way that you like things to be done and a certain standard.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is that part of just the way that you see business?

I hadn't thought of it in terms of DNA, but you're right. And when we have— it is, and it's what makes us unique. However, it's also very easily replicated. So we have new people come to us as therapists or administrators, as allied health assistants. And they'll say, this place is different. Yeah, you do this differently. And yet I, I didn't set out to be different. This is who we are and this is how we do what we do. And again, being able to embed that through Systemology and then have confidence that anyone that comes on board with us is going to get that same depth and quality of our DNA without having to sit beside me.

Yeah.

And through osmosis and conversation is— yeah, it was a game changer. Absolute game changer.

If we go back in time a little bit before then, before—

yes.

Having come into contact with Systemology and System Hub and our work, how can you see like the difference between the businesses? Like if you walk in today to Lyme therapy, it's a different business. And I'd love to know a little bit about that, how it was before and how that change has happened. How do you feel about that?

Yeah, there was always excitement when we have someone new coming on board or an expansion in the growth of the service because someone's bringing a new skill set, or we've, we've upskilled in an area and we're now able to provide that. But it always came with an element of dread in. We've got to, especially if that person is new to the service, how do we get them on board with who we are and our DNA? How, using your words, how we do things and not to make it impersonal. That's really important too, because we are very person-centered. But there always was that element of Where am I going to find the time to be able to get this person to where we all are? Yeah, because at Lime, there's no hierarchy of I've been here 20 years, you've been here 5 years, and you've been here 1 year, and we treat you all differently because your level of understanding our service is different. Everyone is on the same playing field. So thinking back then, I would always be apprehensive alongside being excited of recruitment and onboarding or a new area of service with I've got to find the time to get these people or this new part of our business to where everything else is. And that was— it's fraught with if you catch me on a bad day or you catch me in a hurry or I don't find the time when the time is needed. And so I'm missing opportunities that can have a devastating impact on your service and the impression that person then gets of who Lime is. So if you walk into Lime now, we have 7 new people starting with us in this first quarter.

Yeah.

And there is nothing but excitement and confidence because of the systems that we have. In place. And because we know that we can get people on the same page quickly, efficiently, but with that same integrity that you would have if you sat with me and spent that time equally with Systemology, they can be directed and then they're still with me, but they've got that body of knowledge to then ask what they need to that then becomes their learning and their understanding. They're asking the questions that are relevant to them, not me telling them what I think they need to know. Does that make sense?

Yes. Yeah.

Don't miss the part of catching up with me, but it's not that body of time that myself or Shane or Nicole, one of those other more senior therapists, would have to spend with a person and not necessarily have the same quality and the information sharing, you can miss things, you know, and we've seen that. I have missed big things and then I've seen the product and gone, oh my gosh, why are we here? Oh, I didn't tell you about that, or you didn't know about that, or though. Yeah.

How are you feeling back before Systemising? If you were to explain what was going on with you when you found Systemology, was it— were you Yeah, I almost don't want to say anything because I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want to know how you were feeling as a business owner that you were at that point of something needs to change. I'm wondering what was going on then.

Every time that, that when I was talking about that onboarding, the excitement.

Yes. Yeah. Oh, you go.

So, you know, what was your word? What are you going to say?

The excitement. Slash dread. Yeah, it's, it's because you're excited for what's going to equal work, work, and you have a certain standard that you want to deliver to a certain standard. So you're like, as a business owner, I'm going to grit through it and get it done.

But this hinges on me and it hinges on Shane or it hinges on Nick or hinges on Lynette. And I'm like, I've got to find that time for everyone.

And that's, that's just the onboarding piece. Even if we go more about like even broader to do with the business, like Absolutely. How are you feeling about that? If you were to explain or describe to someone what it feels like to be a business owner in the thick of it, how would you explain that?

And yeah, you're right, this isn't just about onboarding. This, it's, that's only one small piece of what we do every day. We're not onboarding every day. We talked about as allied health professionals, we deliver we deliver products at the end of the day and their interventions, it's treatment, it's reports. So how do we guarantee that my report is going to be at the same standard with the same depth of knowledge, the same value in terms of what the person is paying for? If Caleb writes it or Sophie or Tiana, and that's across all disciplines, that those products, how do we make sure that what we're delivering every day is of the same standard and the way we're interacting around that product is with the same— yeah, the Lime Way.

Yeah.

So when you talk about what was it like pre and what was I looking for, I would— I was researching how to fix this.

Yeah.

Wasn't coming from policy and procedure. Yeah. I say that really respectfully because we put a lot of money into that. We need to have those documents and reference points for the team, and everyone still needs to know where they are, and they need to read them and be aware. And we wouldn't hold some of the contracts that we have without that, that backing to, you know, in terms of governance and quality. This is different. Yeah, it wasn't solving my problem.

I like this. This is interesting because there is more to systemology than just a documented process.

Correct.

It starts with the documented process, But it really sets on a journey. And I see a lot of difference between things like when you go for an ISO certification and people just, you know, buy off-the-shelf templates for the purpose of ticking the box and then going, now we've got our systems and our policies in place, give us the checkmark. But no one uses them. No one follows them. Like, it's— there's a very different, hugely different approach here for when you're talking about the Lime Way. Yeah. So what is that difference? I don't know how you'd articulate it.

It's practical because we had many robust conversations about going down the systemology path and whether it was needed.

Internal or to like your facilitator James, or internally, even before you made the decision?

Yeah. So I bought the book And instantly, like, I'm a gut feeling kind of person. And I went, this is the answer. This is— and I get this feeling.

I got it too. As you said that, I was like, yeah, yeah.

And it's the— there's a science, there's like an equation. It works. It's researched, it's referenced, and it applied. I could apply it. And I know you apply it in many industries and You know, where I heard about this too was from another allied health professional within the context of a course we were doing. I can't even remember the course. What I took out of that was Systemology.

Yeah.

And I think we've been trailblazers at Lyme in many ways. And Systemology, I feel, is for those that don't know about it in, in allied health, it is an absolute game changer. And once you get your head around Yes, it's going to mean that you have your systems champion and yes, that person won't be seeing clients, but what you gain in the, the confidence and the momentum that then builds internally, that isn't coming from me, isn't coming from me as a business owner or the leadership group. This comes from within your team with that systems champion. It's, it's palpable.

Like, you can see it and feel it and Yeah, that's the reason you started was to solve some of these challenges that you were having and you read the book and you connected with it. And I know I mentioned something early on that you didn't connect with. It's actually one of the things that I took out of the Systems Champion book because there's reference to exit and selling or being acquired. And initially I thought that could be a bit scary for a team member that's reading that. So I thought in Systems Champion I removed it, but I'd love your take on if you even thought about having an acquisition prior to starting this journey.

No. And in fact, I was nearly put off at the start because it was talking about setting your business up for that scalable and saleable.

Yeah.

And I gave that feedback very honestly to yourself and James. I'm like, I want to introduce a systems champion, but I don't want my team to think that I'm going anywhere and that we're only doing this because there's a— we're looking to sell or for the business to be acquired. We— I was really intentional in that part of Systemology not being relevant.

And we—

when we talked about externally, when that was part of the conversations, I was really nearly defensive in that's not why we're doing this. Yeah, our business needs this, our service needs this. Because we're all doing something different and we all need to be united with the— this methodology. It's not even that. It's— yeah, all being on a different page that I couldn't sew us all together to do the same thing and do it well. But it wasn't to sell a business.

I've even started using the word, and I don't know if you can give me some insight if this is a good idea. I now talk in terms of being buyable, because then you're setting yourself up where you're attractive enough where someone would want to. But not even that. Every day that you don't have an exit or you're not selling, you're effectively the buyer of the business because it's your business and you continue to own it and run it. So you want to have the business in a state where you're like, this is worthy of being owned.

And I didn't know that until we, for various reasons, were looking at really how the current team could own Lime if I stepped aside. And through that acquisition, in talking to the people that have come on board in this acquisition, Genshare, honestly, without Systemology, I would— I couldn't give them the confidence of what this— I couldn't give them the confidence that everything was out of my head or out of anyone else of being that knowledgeable person's head that they didn't— what was being acquired for them and for Lyme was all systemized in the most practical of ways that embedded, as you said, our DNA. So you don't need me. Stand beside them for the next 2, 3 years to make sure everything's as I'm saying it is. And showing them System Hub, showing them how we systemized through Systemology gave them that confidence that I didn't realize 3 years ago, 4 years ago, that would be such a critical point in an acquisition.

I'm now seeing this through you and others now where I'm starting to see this same pattern because I don't know if you ever heard the other case study I had with Jeanette Farron from Diggy Doggy Daycare. It's another one that I talk about a bit, and she uses very similar language to what you're talking about with the acquirer. Other than financial performance, there was actually nothing else that they valued higher than the systems because they were like, the risk is if I buy this and you or key team members walk out the door, our asset devalues quickly.

Yeah.

So the only way to maintain value is to bottle this.

Yeah.

And a lot of business owners, when you're in the thick of it, when you're doing operations day to day, you don't see that. You can't see the forest for the trees because you didn't even think about getting acquired before you started this journey.

No. As I said, I found that quite a, yeah, a sticky point. And then it came to be one of the most pivotal parts of why I could ensure that this acquisition would be successful for my team as well. Yeah, the team first and foremost, but for the people that were acquiring it, which that's going to go on. But Lime owning Lime will be generational ownership. Yeah, those systems will continue to evolve and reflect as the business and service evolves. A policy and procedure doesn't do that.

What changed your thinking on this? Did something happen, or was it when they approached you? Or— you always have to be ready because you never know when someone is going to come knocking, and you really want to exit or be acquired when they come to you. You don't want to— it's never a good thing if it's the other way around and you're looking for someone. You're much better off. Yeah. What happened?

Was it just a knock and say, We've had people interested in Lyme over the years, but again, we were members of the community. We're not— yeah, we're not going anywhere. We have a general— Matt's a generational farmer. The farm is something that we're now moving into, like in taking over that family farm. So it was more seriously the stars aligning in the farm and we've got retirement from Matt's dad and us stepping more into a full-time capacity of running the farm and having a team that deserve skin in the game, that having equity and being part of more than just an employee, if they wanted to do that. The people that had looked at wanting to had shown interest in buying Lime were not who— weren't ever anyone I wanted to speak to. And yeah, this was the right time, right place, right circumstances for, for Matt and I that weren't the same, that weren't there 2 years ago. So this acquisition, when we did have the conversation with Genshare, who then allowed that ownership within the team, it's like everything fell into place like a perfect Tetris line and I guess it was just meant to be because we— I wouldn't have seen this as an opportunity any time before now. Does that make sense? Yeah. But as you said, no, we didn't go into Systemology thinking that we would be in the position we are now, that our business is now in other people's hands, but you don't know what the future holds. And yeah, even just age and stage of your life. Our children are at ages that are really demanding. You think they're demanding when they're little. Wait till they're 4 kids, all teenagers, all wanting to be the best in everything and be run around. And so that was also becoming really apparent too, in where our time needed to be spent. And I didn't want to jeopardize lime because of where my priorities were taking me as well.

I feel sad for a lot of business owners that don't get the reward they deserve for the risk and the work that they take on board. Yeah, the biggest payday that a business owner will ever get is through an acquisition or some sort of exit, and it's the reward for the years and years of hard work and gritting it out and going through it. And sadly, you're the exception rather than the rule to get this exit. I'm so happy for you to have this as an outcome. Yeah, because it ends up being a great example. And for reasons that you might not even realize, you are so many other business owners that I meet. Like you, you didn't see yourself as a systems person.

Oh, hell no.

Yeah. And people are like, how can I own a systemized business if I'm not a systems person? And it's more common than not. But yeah, how do you feel about systems? Like you're not the one documenting it.

It's, it's calm and I'm not a calm person. Like I, but I needed calm for my team. Yeah, that starts at the top. So if, yeah, if I'm running with chaos and where's this and where's that and there's order, but there wasn't because it still relied on me or someone else. Systems weren't about me being the knowledgeable person that had to implement it. And once I knew that and the team did, because they would have laughed if I came in and said, hey guys, I'm going to I'm going to teach you all. Yeah, I'm going to be the systems champion. It's finding that right person, which is interesting because someone within our leadership team who is brilliant in everything— governance, quality— and we thought that would be the systems champion and it's not. And finding that right person and they're in your team and ours is Caleb there that when you find that person with someone like me who, you know, is, yeah, a little bit more footloose and fancy free together. It's magic.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is magic. You know, the person, the me in whoever's listening to this, you're not going to be the person that makes the difference here. It's finding your systems champion who will be your magical unicorn, your wingman that will make this happen and giving them the, the autonomy.

Yeah.

To be that person and not have to check in and check in from a is this right? Is this wrong? Yes. Check in because we need to be sharing this journey, but giving them that autonomy to be the champion. Game changer.

I love catching up with Caleb and hearing how tuned in he is and how much he cares. Like he's got your DNA. Baked in, like he wants to do well, he wants to see the business succeed.

He's—

it's counterintuitive. And this is probably one of the key things that I found that really makes the Systemology approach very different. This is not a Lean Six Sigma black belt who comes in with a $150K, $200,000 salary who's going to install systems. Like, our approach is very different and it's now made more accessible than ever. Because of the introduction of AI and some of the tools as well. You did it just before all of this. You did it the hard way, but it's now so much easier. But how did you make the decision to get the Systems Champion? Because this is a cost. You've now invested in Systemology. You've got time, money, energy. You're sitting, going through the program. That's a lot of cost right there. Throw in adding a team member in here as well.

Yeah.

How did you justify this investment?

Adding an accountant as a husband?

Yeah, that's where the internal robust questions were coming from.

Yes.

Discussions.

Lots of— yeah, Matt would. And yeah, Matt would back this in now. We did very early on. We could see how it was making an impact. So is the question, how did we find Caleb?

How did you make the decision? Because you initially started the program and it was you.

Yeah.

And you— and then you thought, oh, maybe it's this other person on the leadership team. And I know James, your facilitator, as he's going through the program, is he's good at challenging you and making you make some tough decisions.

Yeah, he— yeah, he was brilliant. And everything he did that was obviously anchored to Systemology, was so personable. So within our Catalyst group, it was so diverse that everything that he said was applicable to all of us. Annoyingly so sometimes. Yeah, I don't need to do that. Or were we all right? Or— and yeah, we never were. I needed to do what was being asked. And once I did.

Yeah.

And once I got Caleb on board. It— yeah, we never looked back. And in understanding who was our systems champion, that wasn't easy. You can't just go, who wants to do this? I'll give it a crack. You can't have another, another me type person. But we do a lot of work at Lime in understanding who we are, who our personality traits, and we do Myers-Briggs, we do, we do the bird test. That's quite funny. You're a peacock, a dove, an eagle, or an owl. Guess what I am? What bird do you think I am?

Maybe a peacock.

Yes, yes, I'm a peacock. And Caleb's an owl. Funny.

Awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Matt's an owl. My husband's an owl.

You got to have the yin to your yang.

You do. Yeah, absolutely do. And Myers-Briggs picks up on that. Like, my Myers-Briggs is very much big picture, no detail. Caleb's is very much about detail and order and understanding. And so in putting it out there and having an idea who might because of the work that we do around that. Yeah, Caleb was a really obvious choice in the end.

As you're going through the program, what response did you get from the team? Was there resistance or did they all get on board? Or because the road to acquisition is not a straight line and really business, it's up and it's down and there's no two ways about it that. And even when you have systems and process in place, you still get thrown curveballs and challenges come up. It's—

yeah, you've got to make it a part of your culture, which James spoke about. And it's— until you see it, you can't say this is— you can't say this will change on this date. And what I mean by that is people referring to systemology. So, oh, we'll need to systemize that, or check that jump on and have a look at that system, that language that just becomes part of who we are. And that's, that's where we're at now. And even with AI, like software that we use for our clients, we'd already done some of those prompts because of what we'd done in Systemology. Yes, we were then able to love it within our case notes and some of the work that our software program for clients does.

Yeah.

Which is, yeah, very specific to your case notes and those types of things, we're able to embed work that we'd already done in systemology. And if I had have come in and said, this is what we're doing and we're doing it now, it doesn't work. That's not leading with influence. You've got to get runs on the board. And that's what Caleb did. Caleb is there every day working with the team. Working with those knowledgeable individuals in the team. And you have the early adopters that jump on board. I want everyone on board today.

Yep. You and me both.

Once you get those early adopters and then you'll get the rest of the majority of the team, you'll have those ones that lag at the back, but they get on board by following the path and the steps that are required, but are required in a motivating way.

Yeah. In the process we trust. Was there a point when you felt less dependent in the business? I don't know. Yeah. If it felt like it just happened and you woke up one day or was a gradual thing or what? Yeah. What point did you realize, oh wow, this business isn't owner dependent anymore?

It's—

Yeah, I don't know if that's or if it just happened.

I think it just happened. That's the work we do around the Limeway and culture being so important to who we are. Systemology has become— became part of that. So it was— it was invisible in a positive way. Does that— like the confidence that was growing and now is just part of what we do. Given an analogy, because we trust the process, it happens. And then you look back and go, wow, you know, I think that's what makes systems so hard for many business owners.

They're oftentimes looking for the immediate. Yes, correct. And it's got limited time and resource. I want to invest my money into running some Facebook ads and I'll see the clicks straight away and wow, I get my little dopamine. But then it makes it very easy to jump from from one thing to the next, whereas systems, they're slow. It's— they compound. There's a bit where it reaches the escape velocity and all of the benefits of each system saving time, reducing errors, making things run more smoothly, and then it takes off like a rocket.

Yeah, but it does—

sometimes it feels like it flatlines. Is there anything that you did to pull you through that time?

If this answers that question, it the just getting it done now. Start with what you've got.

Yeah, because—

and I love that because nothing is perfect in my life. And if we had to wait until I had it perfect, we wouldn't be sitting here today.

Yeah.

So I like that. I'm like, cool, let's— and then I started using that language. It's okay. Let's just do what we're doing now. That's— yeah, we're not— we don't want to try and systemize something we're not doing, but we want to be doing. Let's just start with the now. And let's look at what are we doing every day, however many times a day. What are those really important aspects of our role and who we are and who we want to be? No, what we want to be known for. Let's start with that.

Yeah.

And that then allowed us to move quickly. What was important and yeah, what was not easy, but what are we doing every day that this will make it Simpler.

I'm curious to ask you, because we said earlier, did you see yourself as a systems person? All of your language that we're talking about now sends a very different signal to me now. I'm curious, do you see yourself as a systems person now? I'm curious. Yeah, actually, I'm not going to say anything. I'm curious to know what—

Yeah, I—

It's okay to nod, but you tell me.

I have so much respect Yep. For Systemology and how our service is systemed.

Yeah.

Is that the right word? Systemed?

Yes.

Yeah.

You've just created it.

I've created it. Systemed. That's right. And I now see things differently.

Yes.

So I see it. I'm not the person that knows.

Yeah, but you see it. That's all you have to do as a, as a visionary. And I don't like using that word, but as the leader of the business, that's all that needs to happen. You just have to see it now.

Yeah.

That's the key.

And we see it and we'll go, we need to systemize that. That— yeah, let's do this and let's not repeat this. Hang on a minute. We've had this conversation, we've done this training, we've done this learning. Why aren't we capturing this? And that's not to depersonalize it. It's to capture the magic and make sure that the next person that needs to be part of that knowledge sees and feels and understands and still comes and has the conversation with the relevant people. But it's— yeah, it's— I'm saying magical. That's one of the words that we use all the time at Lime.

You are. You're capturing your magic. You have magic. Yeah. And the only way to set a standard, hold someone to an account, is to make sure that standard is communicated.

Yeah.

The only way to communicate some standard is to have it written down or whatever, because otherwise team members go, but I didn't know. I didn't know you want it done that way. Yeah, I didn't know I was meant to fill out the CRM that way.

Yeah. And we have fun with it. Like, it's really interactive. And this is again, what you learn through your program is all the different ways that you capture what you do. And yeah, we're making where we can, where we're recording and videoing and yeah, being really human in that so that when you are part of that learning with Systemology, it's entertaining in a way.

You mentioned the human bit.

Yeah.

Which is so interesting when so many people, they have misconceptions around what systems are and what they bring. And people think, oh, if I systemize everything, I'm actually taking away the human.

Yeah.

And I think more and more in an AI world. Yeah. We're going to crave the human more. Like you want to figure out which of the bits the robots are going to do. And which things need to be done a certain way. We're always going to send out an invoice the same way and follow up and whatever. But where's— we create the space for the human by just letting the system handle everything else. What are your thoughts on the human piece in business? Is that something you consciously think about? How do we bring the human? Because it's, it's counter to what people think about systems. It's a bit like creativity. They're like, systems will take away the creativity or take away the human.

Yeah, no. And they're alive. They're alive, these systems. Systems. They're not done and dusted, never look at that, and everyone just go— these are living, breathing, keep working as they need to be. And I say that, as does Caleb, and again through Systems Hub, giving feedback. How did you find it? Be really honest. We think it's great, but tell us, was it helpful? Did you learn? Where did you see room for improvement? It actually makes the human part of the interaction and the learning, I would say, more meaningful because generations now, the generations that are familiar with how to learn online, they're— they don't feel compromised by having to look and learn that way. But you aren't saying that is the end and now you have all of that information. We are still then part of the next step in saying, how'd you find that?

Yep.

What did you learn? Do I need to come out and do that first session with you? I'm still going to look over your report, but I'm not having to go through all of what they have learned in that system myself or one of the other team members. So what that person is asking, and I've seen this, I've seen this pre-Systemology and not got a good result because of how much reliance there was on the human that didn't give the information to the level that it should have been for whatever reason, versus Systemology where they've gone through the system and the product at the end with some conversation and clarification is perfect. Wouldn't have got— can't compare the two.

I often think about it and it only works for maybe the older generation. But if you've— did you ever see The Matrix, the movie?

I'm not really into movies. Sorry.

Of course. Can't sit long enough to listen to them. There's a moment when Neo sees the Matrix and once you see it, you can't unsee it. And that is it. It's that same feeling with systems. Like once you see a systemized business versus not, it's so obvious They're night and day difference.

I see it like with friends now.

Yes, I'm sorry.

Guys, here's this book. You need it. You guys need to do this. Why aren't you doing this?

Why don't more business owners do this? I'm curious if you've got any insight on this, because this is— I don't know if it's not— yeah, again, I keep holding myself off because I want to hear your thoughts. Why? Why don't business owners do this or Too busy. Yeah, too busy.

Yeah, I was too busy. Yeah, but I was going to be too busy to the point of not being able to even function because it reaches a point where, you know, there's so much in your head and so much responsibility that it becomes a risk. Had I done this— and I say this all the time— had I done this 10 years ago, why didn't I do this earlier? And that, that time, we're a really small business. Yeah, we are really small business.

When you say small business, how many team members are you now?

So we would have around 40. Yeah, but that's not 40 full-time people. We have people that work school hours. They might work one day, they might work 9-day fortnight, whatever it is. This isn't something for you need to be a big business. I can see the relevance for anyone that wants to have confidence in how they do what they do.

Yeah.

That then takes that reliance off them to be the person to step everyone through it and give that space to either spend time not doing your work or to invest that time in other ways that are going to benefit your business, your service, your team. And that's what I've seen. And I think people have got to get their head around the time that you invest in systemizing your business will pay off. Yeah, I don't even— I can't even give you the words for it because it was probably like something that was holding us back.

Yeah.

Really holding us back.

People often ask, what's the ROI on this? How much money is this going to add? And it's a very challenging question for me to answer because it becomes part of your DNA. It feeds through everything. It feeds through every team member. Yeah, there's just no way to compare it. Like, it is literally light versus dark.

It's—

yeah, yeah.

And once it is like a hurdle, once you get over that, once you've put that how am I going to find the time behind? You actually just don't think about it again. Yeah, you just— we now go, oh, Caleb, who he actually has time every week still dedicated to Systemology. That's how much we value it. He's a brilliant clinician. He's mentoring some of our more junior therapists now. Systemology is one of our priorities for his time and how that benefits Lyme. So if you can, when you meet someone and you think, I don't know if this is going to be a good analogy, but you think, oh, I'm not really warming to them. And then you give it a bit of time and they've been told they're a nice person. And then once you know that you've built that rapport and you know that they're that person, you don't look back and think, oh no, maybe I still shouldn't be friends with that person. Yeah, this person's great.

Yeah.

You just push on together. It's like Systemology.

Yeah.

Once you get that idea that this is going to cost me and I haven't got time, once you get over that, you never look back.

Yeah, we do have the business owner's best intention at heart, and that's baked into our DNA and we don't compromise that.

Yeah.

And I think once people start seeing that and working with that, then they realize, ah, we're genuinely here to help. We feel for business owners. I'm curious to know when it comes to Caleb, if do you think he recognizes the gift that you've given him? Like being a therapist, an occupational therapist coming out, you don't learn this stuff at uni.

No.

He's now picked up a skill that will change the way that he sees the world.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. Yeah, I don't know if you've ever had that discussion with him or—

Caleb's really grateful for any opportunity. He's one of those beautiful humans that, yeah, anything that he is tasked with, he will do to the best of his ability. And I feel because of that too, and him being that person in our team, others are drawn to maybe, oh, could I be a systems champion? Yeah. His leadership around this means that others are interested and yeah, yeah, want to be part of it.

Yeah. As we think about the acquisition, like there's a lot of work for you to get to where you are now. Yeah. What role has the systems and the process and being organized played when you're chatting with the acquirer, like when they're asking for things and there's no two ways about it. Every business owner will go, the due diligence process is grueling.

Terrific.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's— tell me a little bit about that and how you feel the work that we did together has impacted that and what they were looking for. And I don't know, just whatever comes to mind.

Yeah. How do I give more depth around the confidence in— through that due diligence process that we had the systems that meant there wasn't the reliance on Matt or myself, that I don't know how in an acquisition and a DD without Systemology how you could give the same confidence. I think it would anchor the owners to being part of the next 2 years or 3 years of that.

Yeah. When they do deals, oftentimes the business owner, they'll put a clause in that you've got to stick around for the next 3 years.

And our situation is that, yeah, I'm still part of Lime in, in some aspects, not in terms of ownership, I'm saying confidence, but it's—

it was from giving them the confidence.

Yeah. And the, the value in that couldn't be understated. And that, that I genuinely could say this runs without me.

Yeah.

How do you know that? Because of Systemology.

Yeah, I think that's key and ultimately what they're buying. And sometimes you don't realize it in the moment, but the multiple that you got and the exit or the acquisition that you got, the value from the systems, like that's what increases that. And when you do the equation and you go, how much did we invest versus what the return is, not only do you feel the return along the way running the business changes and the way that it operates and the outcomes and all that sort of stuff, but equally at the other end as well, the it's a huge magnifier and multiplier.

And as I said, I didn't realise that. I was really proud, to be honest. Like, I'm not driven by money. I did marry an accountant, but— and it's that whole—

yeah, he's the yin to your yang.

Yes, correct. So I was really proud. Like, I— Lime's acquisition was about what's best for the team. And then in speaking to Genshare, I was really proud that we were systemised and that I could genuinely, genuinely say the team know what they're doing without me. That's a good thing. You're not— this acquisition doesn't rely on what's in my head. These guys know what they're doing and the legacy of the LimeWire is embedded into everything because of Systemology. You don't get that out of our policies. Yeah, yeah. In terms of investment in the time and money that that's been spent, I wanted a quick fix, but it would never have worked. And I couldn't have sat there in that acquisition. We've probably bought things that are sitting on shelves or on within our system. I wouldn't even know where they are that were meant to do something. Systemology is different because it becomes part of who you are and who your business is. And yeah, I couldn't have been prouder.

You get to look back now and you talked a little bit about it. I'm wondering now that you've done the systemization, you've gone through this journey and maybe it speaks for itself, but was systemizing worth it? Oh, time, money, energy, everything. Yeah. What?

I wish I'd found it earlier in its evolution. And for anyone thinking, when, when do I do this? It's now. Today you, you get started and you reach out. And that was the other thing that was— it was so easy to engage and get on board with what we needed from Systemology. All of your, all of your side of things was really simple. So you can't wait. Yeah, you don't start it in the new year. You don't start it in the next financial year. You do it now because that is what Systemology is. Just start now and systemize what you have. You don't actually want to systemize what you want because you won't do it. Yeah, it's like saying I'm going to buy a new pair of jeans 2 sizes smaller. Yeah, you want to wear them today. Get started and yeah, you won't look back.

Thank you so much for just the honesty and the way that you approach business and the willing to share. Like in your industry as well, it's quite rare in allied health and in the medical space. There's not too many clients that will come out and tell their story. Different industries, because I get to talk with a lot of different business owners.

Yeah.

And certain ones will like to share more than others, but you are definitely zigging when others are zagging. In your industry, and I think that makes you a trailblazer. People watch what you do. You might not even realize it, and they'll follow in those footsteps.

Yeah, and I'm happy for— that's very kind. I want our communities to have the best allied health services around them. So if anyone wants to talk to me who was in that allied health medical space about Systemology and Yeah, I'm more than happy to discuss why they need to do it now.

What do you do now? Are you going to ride off into the sunset or what happens? Have you thought? Because this, for many business owners, this is such a pivotal moment that just changes the way that you'll see the world because your identity is built around the business. Yeah. So have you thought about what now?

I'm going to— I'm still very much involved with Lion, but with a different role. So not ownership. And that's my choice. And, and working with the team is still really important to me. I'm the farm and this will make people laugh. Yeah, I'm going to spend— so I've lived on the farm for close to 30 years. Yeah, but I haven't really done any farm work. So with this kind of generational change, I'm going to start doing some farm work. I might do some fencing, some landmarking. Matt actually thinks we might rejig the feedlot and I could head up the new automated feedlot a few days a week.

Yeah, I'm imagining shearing some sheep.

I might rouse about.

Yep.

Yeah, I don't think I'll shear.

Have you got a dog or a border collie? Will you be whistling them around to—

Well, I have a border collie, but it is crossed with a poodle. Does that count as a border collie? I don't know.

Does it follow instructions?

Oh yes, Dolly certainly follows instructions. Yeah, she plays with the kelpies on the farm, but she's my town dog. But yeah, I could teach her to do some rouseabouting with me in the yard. That'd be funny.

And you'll bring systems to the farm?

Oh, imagine. Yes.

You'll be so organized. I'm going to love it. Yeah, well, I have to come and visit and we'll have a part 2. Maybe we'll check back in in another year or two, because normally what happens, and I'll just give you a sneak peek on what happens down the road, right? You'll take a year off, you'll recharge, rejuvenate, you'll get itchy, and then you'll want to go at it again. Because this is the business owners, they can't help themselves. You'll spot something on the farm, an opportunity. You'll go, oh wow, you know what? Here's this little contraption invention thing that I can make here, and you'll solve another problem because business owners are problem problem solvers.

Yeah.

So, yeah, watch out for that one.

Thank you, Dave.

Thank you so much for coming and sharing again. I appreciate it. I'll pop some of your details if people want to find out a little bit more.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Thank you.

And Caleb would be really happy to chat with anyone too.

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you.

No worries.

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