Building The bossbabe Brand w/ Natalie Ellis

What's the worst that can happen if you turn down this job and you go and start a business? So many people, when you ask them when they have successful businesses, you ask, how did you get started in the beginning and ultimately, you know, they'll give you a story. But ultimately they were saying I was resourceful.

Own your future, because if you don't, someone else will. Welcome back to the Own youn Future podcast. I'm so excited today because I have a dear friend and I can say that because we've spent years getting to know each other. We spend at least once or twice a year in proximity. She's got an amazing little daughter who's a year old and her and my wife chat non stop. They have cool things in common. And besides that, it's so enjoyable to watch. I can say a young woman because I'm 54, but to watch a young woman in today's world take ownership, to own her decisions, to own and be in control of her choices in her calendar, to be the mom she wants, the significant other she wants the leader, she wants, wants the person who impacts to move forward, even when you're scared, to move forward, even when you feel doubt, to move forward. In today's world, we call it imposter syndrome. And then you have friends and family who pack that imposter syndrome on and it just amplifies and you could just sit still and accept what life have to offer, life has to offer you. Or you could take ownership, take control, take uncomfortable action and move forward. And that's exactly what Natalie Ellis has done. She has formed the Boss Babes brand which is pure fire. Over 3 million followers on Instagram. An incredible company helping women all around the world. And I am so glad to have Natalie Ellis on the show. What's up, Natalie?

Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Glad to have you. So today I want to talk about overcoming adversity, how you got so many followers, how you get to be in the self education industry. Would you have ever thought in a million years that you would be inspiring and teaching and literally selling what you know to other people and them thanking you for it? Like, did you even know that was a business when you were going through, you know, college or going through university? But I'd love to start with a question I love to ask before we get into some of the details, was there a time in your life, was there a moment that you remember? You know, we call it the own your future podcast. I just love that term because if you don't Own it, someone else does. Right? Life's too short for someone else to be in control of your calendar. Was there a moment where you knew like no one was either, no one was coming to save you, so it was on you. That could be number one. Number two, it could be like, man, if I don't do something different, I'm gonna be sucked into the life that somebody else is, not mine. Was there an epiphany or was it like a slow roll into you deciding to do your own thing?

I remember the exact moment. I remember sitting in a cafe in the north of England. I think I was 21 and I was sitting across from a friend of mine and I was in tears, saying to her, I don't really know what I'm going to do. I have two options and I have no idea what I'm going to do. So I just graduated university, I went to business school and I got offered the graduate job of all business school dreams. It was with one of the big four consultancy firms. And even the sign on bonus alone would have paid off my entire student debt. And it was the path everyone expected me to go down, but it just didn't feel right. And I always knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I didn't have a business idea. So I was sitting across from her and I said to her, listen, I've got this job offer that on paper makes absolute sense in my heart. I want my own business, but I don't even have a business idea. So would it be crazy to just turn down this job? And I'll never forget what she said to me. She said to me, what's the worst that can happen if you turn down this job and you go and start a business? And I thought about it and I realized the worst thing that could possibly happen is I'd be in the situation I'm in now. I'm living with my grandparents, I've got tons of debt and I've got no idea what's next. And she was like, can you handle that? Can you handle if that's the worst it's going to get, can you handle it? And that for me was a full body, yes, because I was already handling it. And I made the decision on that day. I was going to go start a business, I was going to find an idea and I was going to go and do that. And it just comes back to that. Own your future. The idea of taking full responsibility for deciding the path that you're going to go down and having that trust in yourself that you can figure it out and you can handle what the worst case scenario is. And I never look back. I mean, it wasn't easy. It hasn't been this upward journey the entire time. But that one decision, it changed everything for me.

Yeah. And what do you feel? I'm just going to go down this road a little bit because you and I get the opportunity to get people at different ages who have that realization. You were blessed. You, you felt that at 21. There's some people listening. They're 31, 51, 71. And had that realization last week, last month, last year. It's like I just spent a decade or half a decade or multiple decades doing something is what everybody thought I should do. You should have. You went to school, Natalie. You should have taken that job to the outside world. You were crazy to people in your family for turning it down. You had to go against the rain, the. The grain. And, and here's the part that I think, I think it is harder to make that decision each year. It compounds. Well, now I have kids, now I have a house, I have a mortgage, I have a car payment. They expect me to do this. I have daycare. Like you could see how that. Imagine that decision, living in your parent, your grandparents basement, right. Debt. But imagine if you stacked on and you had a one year old and a house and your own mortgage and you still feel that way. And that's why I love what we get to do. Because that can feel hopeless. It can feel helpless not knowing where to start. So I guess the question is, how do you see helping people make that decision as they get older? And it's harder.

There's two ways that I look at it. The first thing is I feel like people have to really own their truth in order to be able to shed the shoulds. So shedding the shoulds means shedding all of those layers of shoulds that you've put on since, you know, since being a little boy, a little girl. We put these layers on. You know, I should go to school, I should get a degree, I should buy a house. So many shoulds we put on. And I think to be able to shed those, we have to have really honest conversations with ourselves. Is this life I'm living the one I actually chose? Or is it one that I settled for? And that alone is really powerful to just acknowledge it. It doesn't mean you need to change it tomorrow, but it just means I'm acknowledging there might be something else that I desire for myself. Because there's a big difference between the should and the desire. And the second thing is, we don't have to make the decision like, you know, and throw it. Throw everything away overnight and start from scratch. You know, if you're sitting at home listening to this and you've got mortgage and you've got kids and you've got people depending on you, it's not a case of saying, okay, I'm going to put everything on the line and I'm going to risk everything to go in the direction that I want to go. But actually, how can you do one thing every single day that's getting you closer to the reality you choose? And it might mean you hold onto that study job while taking late night classes, while doing an online course, while working with someone, while podcasting on your lunch break. Just doing one thing that's moving you in that direction. Because one thing I often encourage people to do is just put your steps in a general direction. You don't need this really defined North Star. This really defined direction to start taking action on it. You just need a general direction of where you're going to go. Yeah. And you're going to get there eventually. I mean, when I made that decision, I didn't have kids, I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have people relying on me, but I also didn't have an idea. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew by just kept taking steps in that general direction and saying, yes, opportunities really begin to open themselves up and clarity will come from actually taking action.

Yeah, I love that. You know, there was something I heard years ago. Someone said the strategic byproducts of moving forward are usually bigger than the original goal. So you had a goal of saying, hey, I'm going to start my own business. And you went in that direction blindly in some areas. You had to be courageous. Courage is not moving forward. In the absence of fear, courage is moving forward even though you're scared to death. Right. Confidence doesn't come until you actually move. People say, I need confidence. No, you really need courage. Like, jump out of a plane is courage. Halfway down you go, I think this is okay. You start building confidence to do it again. But you got to jump out first. Right. So how did you. I'd love to hear, so how did you end up? We're in the same business. You help others with your life experience to get in business, to have more followers on Instagram. You teach people things that took you some time to figure out. How did you end up in this business?

By accident? So I remember committing to myself, okay, the next business idea I have that has legs, I'm going to go ahead and do. Because I kept having these ideas, and then a few months later, I'd see someone else doing it. And I was like, oh, they stole my idea. No, they just acted on the idea that I had. And so I commit to myself, if I see an idea, I'm going to go ahead and do it. And I visited America a year before that, and I'd seen that a lot of people were putting powders in their smoothies, which doesn't sound groundbreaking now. You know, putting supplements and superfoods and smoothies is very normal. Back then, and especially in the uk, it was not. And I thought to myself, what if I introduced this to the UK market? And so I started my own supplement company. I went from having zero idea of what that even entailed to 12 months later having this company and I was making this product in my kitchen. And that 12 months I just spent building an Instagram audience because I had no marketing budget. And I thought, you know what? This would be a great place to advertise for free. So I launched this business and it was great. In fact, within the first three months, we were shipping to over 60 countries and we were stocked in over. And we got an order to be stocked in over 260 stores across the UK, all because of the audience I'd built on Instagram, which I think at the time was about 12,000 people on Instagram. And so things were going really well. So on the outside it looked amazing, but on the inside, I mean, it was an interesting situation because I didn't understand cash flow. Even though I'd gone to business school, I didn't learn cash flow. I didn't learn these things. So people were ordering this faster than I could pay for the actual materials to fulfill it. So one day, I think I was in the office, 2:00am, just pulling my hair out, thinking, I'm going to have to refund these people because I can't afford to fulfill or I need an idea? And I thought to myself, what if I sell a recipe book? Because my current audience, they're really interested in health and fitness and smoothies. What if I sold a recipe book that I could actually sell and I wouldn't have to deliver a physical product, I could deliver a PDF, And I thought it was genius. At the time, I thought no one had ever had this idea. And I ended up doing that just as a way to be able to pay for all of the orders and pay for the raw materials that I actually needed. And when I did that, that was a light bulb moment of, wait a minute, I think I'm onto something here because I can actually provide something without actually needing to ship it and deal with all those logistics. And that always stayed with me.

So I kept it.

Yeah, I did different iterations of it, and it went really well. And then eventually, I'd been with that business for a long time, and people kept asking me, how do I start the business? And so I thought, well, selfishly, there's people I want to learn from in the industry. Let me put together a community, and I'll bring those experts in so I can get the lessons from them. And it's turned into what we know as Buspay. But it all started with how on earth do I fulfill these orders without going out of business?

Okay, I had to interrupt this amazing interview, and it only gets better. To remind you to register for the Own youn Future Challenge happening August 1, five days. Tony Robbins, myself, amazing guest. You can't miss it. Oyf2023.com oyf20023.com Go reserve your spot after you listen to the rest of this amazing interview. Isn't it true how desperation is just the mother of creation? Right? I mean, you had to figure a way through. And sometimes I like to put myself back in that place because for me, that's where most of my innovation came, when my back was against the wall. So if your back's against the wall right now, no, that might be the gift from God, the universe, whatever you believe in, it's time to innovate, time to create. Because like when Natalie was at her grandmother's house in debt, there's no other place to go but forward, right? And if you go back, you already know what it's like to be in the basement. So it's not like you don't understand it. You know what I love about this? You know, a couple years ago, Warren Buffet, he does a yearly address to the world. I honestly have never seen it before, but somebody had sent me the clip. And he was asked, what is the best thing to do in a shifting economy? Or it was about inflation or a recession. And he said two things. He said, one, start a beautiful. I remember he said the words. He start a beautiful business that has higher margins. Where people get themselves in trouble is when they have product, they don't understand it, and it's so costly to fulfill. And then if inflation goes up, you can't afford the gap and you go out of business and you realize that that's why I love this industry. It's why Tony and I teach it. It's why you teach it. You sold information. You sold something extremely valuable. That PDF helped people, help them get healthy. And all the things that you did, it was extremely valuable. But you didn't have to store it, you didn't have to warehouse it, you didn't have to ship it, you didn't have to pay shipping. You didn't have to worry if shipping costs went up. You got to sell it. Impact. And the margins, like what Warren Buffett said, are bigger. And now you've gone on to teach people how to do what you do to be in business and start an online business. I love that. And the second thing he said is, even if the dollar deflates and we. What he said, right? Marks or seashells or a deflated dollar, just get better at what you do, and you'll get more seashells than anybody else. And I know that sounds like especially a younger generation is, who's that old white guy? Warren Buffett, the richest guy? What would he know? But think about those two words. It's like, sell something with more margin. If you're going to do the work, you still got to sell. You still got to ask for the money. You still got to create a great product. You still got to have followers, still have to fulfill. You might as well sell a product that you can replicate over and over and pay nothing for it. And secondly is stop dabbling. That's the way I got from it is like, everybody dabbles. They want more freedom, they want to do their own thing, but they dip their foot in, they get nervous, they back out, and then they complain. I'm not trying to be rude, and maybe complain is not the word. Maybe uncertainty imposter syndrome kicks in. But, like, I'm not trying to oversimplify success, but when you have a great product and something you can deliver with small margins, that actually impacts lives. And then you take the uncomfortable action of learning the business and moving forward and marketing when you don't, then I'd love to talk about how you look at the lens of marketing here in a moment. But that's the combo for success. No more dabbling, no more dipping your foot in. And I'm sure you felt that along the way. And now that you help other people, don't you sometimes want to shake them and go, no, no, you just got to do the work?

Yeah, I sometimes just want to shake people and say, you just need to be resourceful. Because so many people, when you ask them when they have successful businesses, you ask, how did you get started in the beginning? And ultimately, you know, they'll give you a story. But ultimately, they were saying I was resourceful.

Yeah, it's never pretty. It's never like it's started and the clouds parted and the angels. You know, it's like, that's not the way it goes.

No, it's exhausting. And you need to work long hours often, and you need to be really consistent. You need to keep picking yourself back up. But ultimately, you need to be resourceful. When I started this business, I was Googling, how do I sell what is an email list? But I figured it out because I knew I had a really good product. And if I figured out if I just. If I can sell this thing, I've got a business. And my first goal was if I can sell enough of this to just make a decent monthly wage that can pay my bills, that's a success to me. And that was my North Star. It's all I focused on, and I wasn't getting distracted. And I think it's very easy to be getting distracted. And, okay, I've got this one product. Let me create a few more, because that one's not selling well. Let's figure out how to get it selling, because you've got a lot more success coming to you if you can actually figure that part out. A lot of people just give up before it's too early or turn their attention to something else too early. And I had one product for four years, and I just kept selling it, and I just kept getting better at selling it. And that skill is what's been able to be transferred into other businesses that I've had. But I learned that from being resourceful.

Yeah, I mean, now that you're a mom, it does change the game, doesn't it, being a parent? Oh, my God. It changes everything. Changes every lens you look through. It's like. It's like you get a new pair of glasses and the world looks completely different. As a parent, and I know you, I get to. As friends, we get. I get to witness that in you. And I love. I love seeing that glow and that shine when you talk about your daughter. If someone is thinking, man, I've been dying to get into this business or to get online or to create a course or a workshop or a membership site or write an ebook or be a coach or be a consultant. I've been doing this long enough personally and Tony and I have been helping people with this for five years, just like you are. And one of the first things where you were at 21, I think it was a gift. You were 21 because the world hadn't told you no enough yet, right? Sometimes as you get older, it's like, no, that's not for you. You're not an expert. You don't have a PhD in that. Do you have a. Do you have a PhD in education? How could you give people advice on how they should eat better? Like, our brains go to that and make mess with us and we sit on our hands for years. If someone was listening right now and said, I'd love to be in that business, but I'm not an expert, what would people pay me for? I'm sure you get that all the time. I'd love to know your thoughts and how you answer that.

I always have people go through their phone book and text some people that they know and say, hey, what do you think I give you the most value on? What do you think I'm giving advice on a lot? And start to ask those questions, and you'll often get really good feedback. I come to you for xyz. I come to you, you for these reasons, and I would love more of it from you. And that alone should be a bit of a signal of, okay, there's some value here that I can provide. And also, we don't need to be 10 steps ahead. You know, when I was. I'll give you a very honest truth. When I was selling that recipe book, I didn't even create the recipes. I found someone that would be great at creating the recipes and taking the photos, and I put it together in any book and I sold it. And I. And I had, you know, I didn't have any kind of nutrition background or anything like that, but I was able to find someone that did, and I partnered with them. And as I was refining my craft, I realized, wait, there is something I could package up and sell, and that would be my expertise. But there's so many ways we can go about this. You can be the one that's packaging it up and selling it. You know, you can work with someone else. Ask people around you, what would they pay for advice from. For. From you. There's so many ways you can do it. You don't need to be 10 steps ahead. You do have value. Every single person on this planet has a unique perspective on something. And the more you do it, the more you master it, the more people. People are going to Want it from you.

Oh, my God, that's so good. So good. And it's like, as you were saying, it's like a singer. You start out playing other people's songs, then when you get comfortable, you write your own. Right. I mean, if you look at all the. When Tony Robbins started, he was sharing what he learned from Jim Rohn, who had been a motivational speaker before him. And Jim Rohn learned it from a guy named Mr. Chef. And you know, they learn from somebody, they sing someone else's song, and then you do it enough and you're in the game. You're like, wow, I could help people with what? Like you went in selling someone else's recipes, someone else's visuals, but it still impacted lives because you partnered with the right person and then you built an actual business around it and go, wow, now I could teach other women to do the business that I did. And you never know where that strategic buy product is. Is what I, what I shared before. You had this goal. First is to be your own business, then to help people with supplements. And then the byproduct was, whoa. They'll pay for information that can help their lives. Wow. And there's no. I don't have to worry about margin on that. And then you did that long enough ago. Wow. I actually built a real business where I get to live at home, I met my bills, plus some I'm building on your way to a multimillion dollar business. It's like, I could help other women do the same thing. Hence boss babe, Right?

Yeah, exactly. And it, and it happens so organically. Like you said, this will start to come for you. People start to notice, wait, she has an Instagram following and she's selling product? People start asking me, can you teach me this? I didn't have a course. I didn't have a perfectly laid out PDF. I just said, yeah, if you pay me, I'll teach you how to grow your following. And it happened very organically, very naturally for me. And I just kept listening and honing my craft. And that's the thing. If you're willing to hone your craft, you're willing to sell to the right people and start before you've got everything perfect. That is the basis for a very, very successful business and a very incredible lifestyle too.

Yeah. And I would bet to say that, you know, during this journey from in your kitchen mixing supplements to this, there was probably no self doubt. You never questioned yourself. You weren't, you weren't worried. I love to ask that question. Natalie You've done so much and you have such an incredible brand and you've impacted so many people. Sometimes from the outside, people don't realize you still have the stuff in the invisible, the doubting yourself the company may be going in the wrong direction, or you went too fast over here and you compromised this. Like, there's always something going on in the invisible. What's something that still attacks you sometimes or makes you question yourself when no one's around?

Something I've really been going through since giving birth to my daughter, which was a year ago, is this fear of losing momentum. I came back after my maternity leave probably a little bit too soon, to be quite honest. Emotionally, I wasn't ready. And I tried to sit back in the seat in the business I'd always been in, and something wasn't clicking for me. And I felt like it just started eroding at my confidence. I started to wonder, am I the person that could run this business? Can I take it to where it's going to be? The sleepless nights I was waking up with no energy and I was questioning, will I ever feel like myself again? Is this just my new identity? I don't have the same motivation and drive and energy that I used to. And as I work through that, I'm still dealing with, what if I slow down? Am I going to lose that momentum? What if I do want to work a little bit less and spend more time at home? Will that mean that I'm not going to be as successful? Will my business still work? What if I want to have another baby? And I'm still constantly going between, will I lose momentum or can I do this? And it's also really interesting because for the last decade, you know, I've done the steps, I've executed enough to be able to trust that I can do it the last year. It's brand new to me to be a mum and an entrepreneur. It's brand new to me to be juggling both. And so I don't have that past history of doing it that's keeping me going. And so on a daily basis, I'm constantly questioning, am I doing enough? Do I still have what I had? Have I changed? It's an ongoing process and I hear that a lot. And I think probably that's something our identity probably continues to change for the rest of our lives. And as you enter these new growth stages, I've heard that it's hard before, it gets easier. And so I feel like I'm riding those waves right now.

Yeah, I watch My wife go through it all the time. You and Lisa are friends and you chat all the time.

Time.

You know, she had, she has her hairstyling business that's extremely lucrative and fantastic. And now she has two children. We, we have two young children, three and a half and, and eight months old, both with allergies. I know you two talk about that. Life threatening allergies. So she cooks for them and manages them and she can't just let them go to school because if they, you know, my son picks up a Cheez it and takes a lick of it, he could die. Or eggs or, or sesame and pea protein and everything you could possibly imagine. And. But I watch her struggle every day. Natalie, because she loved being an entrepreneur. She loved what she did for a living, and she loves being a mom. And she's still. And we get to talk about it every day. She's still navigating the middle and, and it's three years in and simultaneously because she's made the choices she did as an entrepreneur and before I met her, she gets to have the choice of deciding or juggling between the two. And if you're listening right now and you're like, well, that's kind of mean, Dean. I don't feel like I have a choice right now. I think all of us are here for different reasons and at different times in our lives. And maybe this is a little spark to say, I just want to make a shift. And as Natalie said earlier, and I'd love for you to share because I'm sure you're going to go down the road of helping moms. I just know that that's, I know that's got to be your future. I see that smile. My wife wants to do the same thing. My mom. My wife wants to help moms with kids with allergies. That's specific to her. But it doesn't have to happen overnight. Like, you don't hear a podcast like this and go, screw it, I'm quitting the job. I'll figure it out. And then add stress to yourself. It's a pivot. It's Kaizen at its best. Right, Kaizen. How do you run a thousand mile race one step at a time? Like, it's. The reason we do podcasts like this is just hopefully you listen today and you're disturbed enough with where you are that you decide to make a shift. And that shift is exploring, it's investigating, it's understanding. It's, you know, you can measure twice and cut once. It's why, you know Natalie does what she does and help inspire and share and teach us why Tony Robbins do what we do, we inspire, we teach you follow someone that aligns with your soul and learn from someone who's already been there. The greatest thing about this industry is not only will you end up in it, but on the way in, you can learn from somebody who's already it. Right. Is that something you'd love to do, is help women or new moms or moms juggle the two?

Yeah. I was tearing up as you were saying that, because I just thought back to. I remember we had Tony Robbins on our podcast about six months before I got pregnant with my daughter, and I was continuing to go between, you know, when's the right time to have kids? I love my career. I love what I do. I have momentum, and I feel this deep calling to be a mom. And I know that's what I'm here for. And I said to Tony, tony, when am I ready? Can you just give me the magic answer? Like, when's the right time? And I'll never forget what he said to me. He said, the problem is you're thinking in terms of years and probably months right now. You need to be thinking in terms of decades.

Yeah, that's a game changer.

And that changed everything for me because I thought about it and I thought, what do I really want my 30s to be about? And the answer was so clear. It was mothering. It was having my babies and bringing them up. And, yes, I want to do that alongside having a business and knowing that's the theme of this decade. It allows me to give myself so much grace for the season I'm in, knowing that this decade is about being a mother. And, yes, I'm doing all the other things outside of that, but that's my priority. And so everything I'm doing is going to be built around that. And if I know that's my priority, then what have I got to feel guilty about? You know, I cancel that team meeting because my baby needs me, or I take that week off because she's not well. That's my priority. And so the decisions become easy. And I think where it gets really, really challenging for moms that are trying to balance and juggle it all is they aren't really allowing themselves to have the priority be the priority. They think they've got three to four priorities, and they need to be showing up at 100% on each of them, and that's why they feel so stretched and strained. And one thing I've really started to do at the end of the week is first check in. Am I proud of how I showed up as a mum this week? And if my answer is yes, then I'm winning. And if it means that I'm not, I didn't crush it with my goals the way I wanted to with my business, that's okay. You know, if we're growing a little bit slower in this season, that's okay. But if my priorities are off, that's where the misalignment internally is going to come from. That's where the guilt's going to show up. But right now I'm very happy to say I don't have that mum guilt because I know where my priorities are. And I'm not saying for any moms listening that that needs to be your priority. You know, when my kids are in school, things are probably going to change a bit for me, but I just want to have that. I want to give myself that permission slip to just be where I am. And I have a mastermind actually for CEO mamas because I need the support myself. And so I was like, how can I just bring more women together? And it's interesting because now I'm one year out and I'm still so new into the postpartum journey. But I have a lot of women in there at the three to four month mark and they turn up to the call, so frustrated. You know, maybe they're even six months and eight months in, they're so frustrated because they're not making progress in their business. And I just take a minute to remind them, you're probably not sleeping very much right now. Your baby needs you constantly. You probably don't feel great leaving your baby. Your hormones are all over the place. And I just lay all the cards out on the table for them and they look at me and they're like, that's a lot, isn't it? I'm juggling a lot. Like, yes, zoom out. 10 years. This is a blip. This is a season. This is a point in time. You are not going to regret taking that extra month at home. You are not going to regret working those fewer hours for the next few weeks. Just have grace yourself.

That's such good advice. You know, people always ask me about advice. I have four kids now and my oldest is 16, which is a whole new phase of life. And when people ask advice, I said, none of it lasts, like you think. So stop sweating it. You know, when my daughter was two and a half, she'd kill me to say it, but she was still wetting the bed at night. And I can remember. I can remember thinking, oh, God, this. We gotta fix this in the sense of urgency. And I had some people in my life who were older who gave me great advice. And then I remember thinking, well, let me look at the other side. In the middle of night, she does. She comes and gets me. I usually change her. We have a hug, a kiss, and a lot of times she'll say, dad, would you sleep with me the rest of the night? And I'm like, maybe this is my moment of grace. Like, someday. She's 16 now. Like, I get hugs now, and they're a little bit like, side leaning to the side. Like, love you, dad. Like, right. Like, I would take back that moment in a second, Natalie. Like, like. And I feel blessed that I have the 16 and 14, but I have a 3 year old. I was telling you before the camera went on, Luca is in that, say, my boy Luca's in that phase. I come home. Or in the morning when he wakes up, literally, no matter what he's doing, he drops and sprints across the room, leaps in my arms. Every time. Not sometimes, every time. You know, and Luca, we both experience this because I know you and my wife talk is both our children have severe eczema and allergies. And last night, I'm here today a little tired because last night I slept with Luca, and his eczema is really inflamed. And every hour he woke up and said, dad, I'm itchy. Scratch my back or scratch my leg or scratch behind my knee, you know, and maybe because I'm an older dad, but to them especially, but someday I'm going to miss laying next to Lucas scratching his knee. I am. And I just. I love that you're teaching women that in your. In your mastermind. I love that you have a mastermind for women like that, because you don't. When you don't feel as crazy when you know you're not alone. You don't feel as crazy when you can learn from somebody a chapter ahead of you or a year ahead of you or. And it's the reason I love that you're in this business. It's the reason I've been in this business 27 years, Tony. 45. 6. 46 years is. It's addicting because sometimes you just give somebody the shortcut through the ugly, the shortcut through the mess they're in. And. And I love everybody listening has that opportunity to help other people. It's why I love it so much so. You know, I know it's a, it's a, it's a statement that's hard to believe in when you're tired. And I can't imagine the hormones. I could only say I got to watch my wife go through it, but I don't, I can't experience it. But when you're in it, it might seem like an attorney, but this too shall pass. And a lot of times when it does pass, you miss it.

Yeah. And just allowing yourself to know that in the moment, even if it feels like that that late night's never going to end, it will. And I also just want to share too, on the Mastermind piece. Coming back to what we were talking about earlier. You know, I have no expertise in this, in being a mom and a CEO. I'm brand new into this. Doesn't mean that I can't curate a group of people and get them together so we can all have each other and lean on each other and connect and communicate. I created this from a place of I need this myself. So let me reach out to a bunch of people that I'd like to be doing this with so we can support each other. And so it's not even that I'm ahead of them. I'm just in it with them and I can see what they're going through and I can think, you know, what if I need that level of support, I'm sure they do too. And just being that curator of a group and energy and space, that's all I did. I was not any steps ahead from anyone. You know, there's so many women in there that are so far ahead and they look at what I'm, they're like, Natalie, you need to give yourself grace. And they're giving me the advice. But being, getting to be around people like that, and that's something that anyone can do, is start curating spaces and start to figure out what lights them up. What do you want to do even if you weren't getting paid?

No, I really say that, like really listen, everybody listen. That what would you do even if you weren't getting paid? Hence the reason Tony and I bought mastermind.com. what I love about Masterminds is that sometimes you are nothing more than the curator of similar like minded people who all have the same outcome. I think it was Napoleon Hill that said the definition of a mastermind is more than two minds come together and you form a collective that's faster and quicker. Right. You might be the newer mom with a year old, but you have a different perspective that can help the mom that forgot who's got a three year old and also can help the mom who's got a three month old that's like, this is not gonna work. You're like, yes, it is. We're gonna be fine. Let's breathe together. Right? I love that and I love to shift a little bit. You know, one of the. If I think of the evolution of doing what you do, or somebody wanting to start their own thing in any business. Of course, both of us are advocates of being in this industry selling an information right, or the collectiveness or a membership or a mastermind or coaching. But there's a spot where people freeze. And I've watched this being at even women's events. I've been on stage with 5,000amazing business women. And when I ask, was sales one of the things that almost stopped you? And almost every woman raises their hand when they think of it traditionally. Like, I think when you think of sales, you think of a used car or a new car dealership when you pull in and all of them come running at you. Like, I think we have that perspective of sales. But business doesn't live without sales. Well, simultaneously it can live through the lens of service or another definition. How did you tackle that on your journey of selling? Did you ever have any hesitation or was it something you felt good about right out of the gate?

I had tons of hesitation. I found the idea of asking for the payment so terrifying, almost so terrifying that I'd rather give it away for free. I just, I had no experience in it and so I found it very challenging. But I'd read business book after business book and every single message would be the same. If you don't get good at selling, you won't make sales. And I just realized I'm gonna have to get good at selling. It's gonna have to be something that I do and put myself out there. And I started putting myself in really uncomfortable positions. When I had my supplement company, I would take the product to trade shows and I couldn't afford team members. So I was standing behind the booth pitching to everyone. And it was the worst. I would have these butterflies in my stomach and I feel nauseous. Yeah, people will be coming near me and I'm like, I know I have to sell to them because I need to recoup the money that I've spent here and I really don't want to do it. And I would almost just force myself to start speaking before I knew what words I was Going to say before the guilt, before the nervousness, before the. Before anything else could jump in, I'd start speaking, I'd start pitching, and I just got more and more confident because I'd realize I'd start speaking to a certain person. I'd really connect with them and know deeply that my product would help them. And once I'd connected those dots and realized, wait, I'm actually providing something right now that's going to make their lives so much better, it got easier. And it got easier.

Yeah. Once you associate with that, you realize you're actually doing them a disservice if you don't get them to say yes. Right. Because they might stay where they are and you kind of shared it. But where have you evolved to now? Is selling in your life a part of your journey? A part of the impact? I mean, how do you associate it?

Yeah, I get really excited about it. I get really excited about selling because I know that I am supporting and serving someone by doing it.

Not to interrupt you, but could you imagine, this is the part that I think people need to hear. Could you imagine if someone walked up to you, went the trade show when you were shaking in your shoes saying, I can't believe I do this. If someone would have said, hey, in seven years from now or five years, whatever it is, you are going to absolutely love to sell, you'd been like, you're a liar. That's never going to crazy.

You're absolutely crazy. This is never going to feel normal or exciting. But it feels really exciting now. And I don't think there's a shortcut for that other than selling and push it. Because you have to learn how to build, to communicate in a way that you can hear what people need and make that quick decision. Is this a fit for them or is it not? How do I communicate what I do in a really effective way so they can make the best decision? You have to get practice in doing that. And I really feel like if people shy away from that, they are doing their clients a disservice. They're also doing themselves a big disservice. Because selling isn't just business. If you're single and you're looking for a partner, what are you just going to sit in the bar and wait for every single guy or girl to approach you because you're too nervous to go out there? No. If you want to find a partner, you're going to have to actively go out there and make it happen. That's selling. You are selling yourself. You're putting yourself out there, you're having those uncomfortable conversations, or you're at the park with your babies and you're feeling incredibly lonely and you really want some friends that have kids of the same age. Are you just going to sit at the park and wait for the other parents to approach you? No, you're going to get up there and make conversation. And so just practicing this skill. Firstly, the byproduct of practicing is you're going to be a lot healthier, happier, wealthier, because I guarantee you're going to continue to push yourself outside your comfort zone in so many more different areas. Life's only going to get better. And you need to build this skill as an entrepreneur. There's no way around it.

I love that this might be putting you on the spot because there's so many things we do in business, but if there was something, somebody's listening right now and says, it's time to get my business off the ground, or the one I have to go faster or I have to lean in, is there something for that you could challenge somebody to do over the next week or two when it comes to maybe getting more followers or making a sale or identifying what they should sell? It could be anything that, you know, we all have that. One or two things, like, if I was starting over, this is what I would do. Is there anything that comes to mind that you would challenge someone to do?

That's a really good question. I always ask myself. I was starting over. So if someone's listening and they don't have a product, they don't have a service, but they want to get something started, I would encourage them to go out and have conversations with who they think are their ideal clients. The more uncomfortable, the better. Whether this is in the DMs, at the park, at the grocery store. Start to have those conversations, start to ask about the gaps in the products that currently exist. Start to ask where they would love more support, get their contact details. I know for me, if I was starting again and I was building, let's say, my email list in the beginning, if I was, you know, showing up on story saying, if anyone's interested in xyz, drop me a message having conversations, I'd start tagging people in my email list with their interests. From the beginning, I didn't even know what the word segmentation meant. But let's say I have a conversation with Jane and she's a mum and she runs a business and she's looking for mindset support. I take that information and I plug it in with her email address. Maybe you've just got an Excel spreadsheet right now, but start to plug in that data so you have information on your potential customers. Take all of that information, go away and ask yourself, what is the best way I could solve the problem for that person right now and go back and pitch it to them?

Oh, my God, I love it.

Don't go back and offer it for free. Just go back and pitch it to them. A lot of people say too, you know, you know, go ask them if they think it would be a good idea. I don't agree with that.

Me neither.

Because everyone will tell you it's a good idea. Are they willing to give you a credit card?

That's how you know if it's a good idea.

That's how you know. Because someone will tell you all day you've got a good idea. But if they're not willing to hand over the credit card, there's something missing. The price is wrong, the way it's positioned is wrong. You know, the offer isn't clear, you haven't got it dialed. So unless that credit card's being exchanged, you need to be doing more work on it.

God, I love that. So good, so good. Uh, we're not done yet. We got a few more minutes here. But where. Where's. How do people find you online?

The best place is probably Instagram at. I am Natalie bosswave.in or bosswave.com love it, love it.

Make sure to go check out what they deliver. It's so valuable. As you could tell in our podcast, we the the first one this happened and we just kept it. Is there anything I can help you with or anything, a question you'd like to ask?

Yes, I have 10, but I'll stick with one. So I'm really curious because I know how great you are at selling and connecting offers to audience. How do you feel like people can do that with their audience in a way that doesn't burn their audience out? I think there's often this narrative. If you sell too often, you're going to burn out your audience. Or if you sell too many different things too often, you're going to burn out of your audience. How do you feel like people can firstly connect with their audience enough to be selling often enough? And maybe if they have like a product ladder, an office suite, do it in a way that people aren't confused, but they know the values there, what they offer and what the next steps would be.

Such a great question. And for those that might be new to this world is like, as we grow as a company, we have people that opt in with us. They opt in to watch our podcast, or they opt in to be on Instagram, and then they want to get a free newsletter. And they're on our email list. We have some people that. That said, hey, I want your book, or I want your monthly membership, or I want to be a part in our world. It's mastermind or a part of your course. Natalie has all very similar products and services. And the question is, hey, we have some more cool stuff that could really help them, but if I offer it too much, we'll be like, ah, Natalie and boss babe is selling too much. Or if we don't offer to them, they're looking someplace else and they might not get the quality. Is that. That's the. That is the balance. So how I look at it, it is. I know this might not be a specific framework, but I know you have great frameworks. But I look through the lens, and my company, my team would say, this is the lens of what's next. And I look through the lens of if I can deliver in each spot and I can open their mind up to seeing if they need it or not. That when I offer something, if they're already thinking in their head, damn, that was good. What's next? Or, that was good. I need a little more of that. Like, did you see any of the thing we did with McConaughey? It was fun as heck. We did it here in the studio. And I obsessed on that day, right? So I'll give you through an example. I obsessed on that day because there was a lot. There was over a million people that weren't in our world. They just watched him on movies. And we knew we were going to offer his product, but we wanted to deliver reciprocity in advance. And the way I described to Matthew, I said, let's give them so much value that when they started, start this four or five hours, I said, picture them with their arms crossed, and they're like, I wonder what this is? And I said, let's deliver so much value in the first hour. They're like. Arms are uncrossed, like, oh, this is pretty good. In an hour and a half, they got 10 pages of notes. Within two hours, they're like, this is good stuff. And I said, by two and a half hours, I hope people are going, okay, I don't want this to end. What's next? And then we're going to make an offer because we want to help them with what's next? But I also said that same philosophy, and I know you already know this, so I'm sure I'm a reminder service today. But I feel the same way about email follow up, right? Two and a half million people, some of them listening right now, said, hey, I'll go to Art of Living. They decided not to buy at the moment, but they're in the email list. And I want to make sure, working with Matthew, that we deliver so much value to them that maybe they didn't buy that day, that there's enough value that a certain trigger, they go, it's time for me to engage. So the lens I'll look at and I know this might not answer your question totally. And then I'll loop back around and I shared this on a previous podcast at most companies that get stuck, get really good at picking green or ripe fruit. So the day that we did that event with McConaughey or Tony's event, or the event I have coming up, or event you have coming up, it is easy for the people go, I need change. I'm in a bad spot. I have to move. I want this. That's the ripe fruit. It's the day they saw it. I need help. But what about all the other people that showed up? To me, that's green fruit. And I want to nurture that plant. I want to plant fertilizer. I want to let you know I care about you, whether you want to come with me this month, next month, or two years now, I've been in this long enough, Natalie, where I'll run into people. And they go, I watch your damn weekly lives for two and a half years, and I finally got your product. I'm so glad that I did. So I look through that lens of emotional buyers. How do I serve them and how do I help them escalate? They got the course. Maybe they need a coach, maybe they need a mastermind. I want to deliver value in between offering that to them and simultaneously, the people who didn't, I don't want them to think like, hey, they don't want. It's like they just didn't want that thing at that particular time. But if they showed up, they need us. So I want to do enough value, but then persuade them to find a different access point into our company. And I look at it as the tree that didn't bring the fruit yet, But I need to nurture it, water it, love it, take care of it, and someday that fruit will start to ripen. So that's the high Level philosophy. That's not a framework. It's a philosophy. You know, I could give you the value. Value, value off offer. Like, you can go through all that, but if you adopt the philosophy of your team so you're not making all those decisions, they'll make a decision of, oh, you know what? We sold two weeks in a row. It's time to just give pure love. Let's not. Let's not push. Or we've done nothing but deliver value for a month. These people have gotten value. Some of them need more accountability. They need to cut a check. They won't. I mean, I love Zig Ziglar used to say, if people don't pay, they don't pay attention. Isn't that true? Do an event where you charge a thousand bucks. I've done all of this. Do an event where you charge 100 grand. I had $100,000. Mastermind. Everybody showed up. They took notes the entire time. $25,000. Mastermind. Everybody shows up, take notes all the time. Thousand dollar event. 85% of the people show up. $200 event, 70% of the people show up. Free event. 18% of the people show up. Sometimes people have to cut that check to be obligated to get in the game. So it's our job to nudge them to do it. And the last thing I'll tell you is you follow your heart on how often you want to offer looking through a lens of ripe fruit, green fruit. But just know that some people feel, no, I don't want to bug them at all. And someone else is bugging them so much, they go to someone else who doesn't care as much as you.

You right?

And some. So just know that. And the last thing I'll share is people who aren't used to being sold to in this world, they're new to this world, they might get offended. And two things I want to share. Usually it's the loud minority. Secondly, the way I've positioned my company after 27 years of doing this with our team, I said, don't get offended. Realize they need us the most. When we made the offer with McConaughey, there was thousands of thank you. Thank you is amazing. But every once in a while, there was some. I can't believe McConaughey's selling a course. He's so rich. He doesn't need my money or, oh, Dean, you sounded like an infomercial. A decade ago, that would have bugged me in my heart. Now I'm like, oh, they need us more than everybody else who's given us compliments. And it just changes. I hope that helps.

That helps so much.

Thank you, Natalie. This has been so fun. It's been a blast. Make sure you find Natalie online one more time. Best way to find you.

Yeah. On instagram@I amnatalieossbaby.in or love it.

Appreciate you. Enjoy that amazing little one year old. It goes so fast. I know everybody tells you that, but it goes in lightning speed. Each piece of this journey that feels tough, you'll miss it and go have a lot of babies because it's so.

Natalie, because it's so fun.

I appreciate you so much. We'll see you soon. And everybody, thank you for being a part of the Own youn Future podcast. And when I say I appreciate you guys helping us be one of the top podcasts in the world. This is only about episode 14 where we're doing interviews. You guys have made it pure fire. By following, by subscribing, by sharing, with friends. If you know somebody that needs this episode, you know that you do, please share it with them and we'll see you next week.