Stop Saving For Retirement (And What To Do Instead) with Bari Baumgardner

When I the only reason that I ended up becoming an entrepreneur, I was just, I'll work hard, I'll make more, I'll work hard, I'll make more. And I had this inkling that maybe if I own my own business that it would be different and I could own my future. And I had been percolating on it, but at the time I wasn't quite ready. And this is important because you can get ready to get ready forever and it'll keep you stuck and broke forever.

Own your future. Because if you don't, someone else will. Welcome back to the Own youn Future podcast. First off, I just want to say thank you. Last week we were number one in the world in our category because of you. And if you like today's episode or you like the last ones, make sure to subscribe, follow, Share it with a friend. And I promise I'm not gonna have any advertising on here. It's my way of saying thank you. And today I am so stoked for the guest that's here. You know, I have to tell you, I say this probably too much, but I guess I have a lot of wonderful friends in my life. This is one of my dearest friends. We've been working together for over a decade and she is a hidden killer. I guess that's the best way to describe. I love when people are the experts in the invisible and you should too. Meaning who is the flame or the wind behind the flame? The wind behind the sail. The high powered high octane gasoline that helps so many of us look amazing. And that's exactly what she is. I could read her credentials. She's the founder of Sage Event Management. They created abvio, her and her amazing husband Blue. But they are the invisible. When you see some of the biggest events in the world, whether they're in person or they're virtual, she is the fuel behind it. I am so glad to have her here. She is a dear friend. She is brilliant. She is someone I go to for feedback and advice. We've done so many things. She helped me and was an intricate part of the McConaughey event where 2.8 million people watched on day one and you are in for a treat. She is a pure powerhouse. Please give it up for my friend Beth. Barry Baumgartner. What's up Barry?

Thank you Dean. I appreciate that. It's so good to see you. Thank you for having me.

So good to see you. You know Barry, what I love is I feel so blessed. We're only about eight weeks, 10 weeks into this podcast. Last week, we were the number one in our category. And really it's called own your future. Because in a crazy world, if you don't own your future, someone else will. That's just obvious. And today I would love to talk about how you've seen so elegantly as a woman. I mean, not that that's, that's anything different, but as a woman, you've taken ownership of your life, you've taken ownership of your niche in this industry, and you've done it with class and grace and without apologies. And I think all of us men and all the women listening could gain so much incredible knowledge from you even talking about how you've turned selling into service. You feel you serve people. You do it through your heart. You don't do it with apologies. You do it with energy and love and. And what you've been able to accomplish has been amazing. But I'd love to start off because I start. I've been starting each podcast, podcast off with this, and it's been really powerful because everybody said something different. If I ask you, what does it mean for you to own your future? I know a lot about your past, but I'd love to know what does that mean through your lens?

Yeah, that is such a good question. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about that and the whole concept of owning your future. I grew up, my dad fixed copiers for a living. My mom was a stay at home mom. We lived in a tiny little. Like our neighborhood was literally on the outskirts of our school district. So there was literally, you know that saying, living on the wrong side of the tracks, like there was a railroad tracks and there was our neighborhood. Like we literally lived on the wrong side of the tracks. And growing up, I started to notice when I looked at kids at school that had a lot of their parents own their own businesses and some friends in my family, they'd grown up with my parents. And this gentleman started his own car business, like he'd taken out a loan. Started with used cars, then it went to owning a Ford dealership and then multiple Ford dealerships. And just watching this family that was in our sphere of influence, like, you know, where we lived, change, like their life change over and over as he kept up leveling who he was and what he did and how much they made. And we were kind of just along for the ride because we didn't have anything. But we were good friends. So we just got to live, you know, kind of by care. I think that was the first inkling that I had, that you could own your own future. Like you could take where you were and actually become someone different, have a different life. It didn't have to be dictated by the circumstances you grew up in. And then in college it was the same thing. And then I got out into the work world and, you know, you're a regular employee. And I started. It just the dots really started to connect. For me, the only people who really had control over their life, their future, their vision, their possibility, their opportunity, were entrepreneurs. And, you know, I did not come from an entrepreneurial family, but I just started dedicating myself to personal development and thinking about how I could be better, do better, have more. And I just worked tirelessly. I mean, my first job, I think, you know, I was the first one in and the last one out. I was the only one working on the weekends. But it just was for me, like the starting point of owning your future had to be work harder than anybody else, which I think I probably still do today.

Yeah, you do. I'll give you credit for that.

Yeah, it's hard to outwork me.

Yeah. And what I love about that is you had a realization. There was a moment. I had that same moment in my life watching my parents. I'm like, that they don't own their future. That's probably why I love that statement so much. Because it's the opposite side. If I don't own my future, if I don't own the choice to take my kids to school every day, and if I don't own the choice to. To direct my calendar, if I don't want the choice to go to every baseball softball game, everything I can with my kids. Because I know at the end of my life, that's all I'm going to care about is was I a good husband and was I a good father? Right. Did I do everything in my power? So if I don't own those choices today, I know they will lead to regret tomorrow. Right. And. And, and we already have witness of that. You have your parents to witness who someone else owned their future. Someone else owned my parents future. And. And I still fight to this day as if I'm broke. Like literally, I work. And you know this because we're friends and we just got done working on the McConaughey campaign for six months. I work as if it's all gonna be taken away from me because that's how important it is to own my calendar, own my decisions, and own being the husband, father, leader, friend that I get to be. So I see that in you. And I know that what would you say to someone? And I got some questions that I thought specifically for you, but this, this led to what you shared. What would you say to someone who has been trained? Career. Right. It's a different career is do what you need to do to keep getting the promotions, not get fired, get the vacation, get maybe the promotion and the raise every couple years. And I don't think people realize, and I want you to hear this, I don't think people realize sometimes you're almost trained to be someone who stands in line and don't step off the path. And then all of a sudden there's a moment or an epiphany or a time in your life you go, screw this. I'm going to my future, I'm going to start my own thing. I'm going to do my own thing. But you've had so many years of training, of being quiet, sit back, do what other people tell you to do. That it's also, it feels scary to jump from kick ass career person to starting and then kick ass entrepreneur. What advice would you have? Some, if anybody's listening right now that are kind of in that transitional phase.

Yeah. It's interesting because when I, the only reason that I ended up becoming an entrepreneur, I was just, I'll work hard, I'll make more, I'll work hard, I'll make more. And I had this inkling that maybe if I own my own business that it would be different and I could own my future. And I had been percolating on it, but at the time I wasn't quite ready. And this is important because you can get ready to get ready forever and it'll keep you stuck and broke forever. And so I got a real gift and I decided to take a leap. Just left the center for my career. And I took a pivot in my career. I went from rank and file employee to a job where I was going to get commission, which is the start of entrepreneurialism. Right. Because you're going to get paid on performance. Right?

Yep.

I was terrible. It was like dialing for dollars, cold call sales and I was really bad at it. And I ultimately got fired. And when I got fired and listen, I'm like straight A student out performer. I've always been the best at everything. And then you get fired. Like I got fired. Like I don't get fired. I'm like the best worker. How did I get fired? But I was terrible at that job and it was such a gift. And at the Time my husband said to me, you know, that was a gift to you because you would have never quit. And you were miserable in that job. What do you really want to do? And I decided to start my own business. I'm like, and it was a real gift because, like, it couldn't get worse than this. I mean, I got fired. I don't have a salary. I don't know what I want to do with myself. I know I'm really good at planning events. I'm going to start my own business. And I did, out of a bedroom in our house. It was literally like, I'm going to start this business part time. I'm going to see what happens. And within a few weeks, I had a client, and it was somebody that I used to work with full time as an employee. And they came on board as my first, first client. So the takeaway from this is that, you know, Oprah says first you get a knock, then you get a nudge, then you get a 2 by 4. You could wait for the 2 by 4 or you could take control of your own future. And I wish I'd done it years earlier. I wish I hadn't waited for someone to force me out of the nest versus saying, I'm good enough. I know I'm talented enough. I'm not going to work so hard for someone else. I'm going to work so hard for myself. And I think sometimes we need that.

No, I love, love, love that. And please, though, I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad. If you're in a career and you love it, if you're happy, if you wake up alive and you're, you're tapping into those creative juices and you jump out of bed. But so many people get in a hypnotic rhythm of life and say, this is probably I should be happy. Like, you know, many people I meet that say, you know, I should be grateful for what I have, it's like, no, you actually should be grateful. You either are grateful or you're not. And when you look through the lens, yes, you should be grateful for where you are, but it doesn't mean you need to settle. And I think so many of us look through the lens of, like, there's a lot of people less, you know, they're worse off than me. And I do have a job. And it's what my parents thought was a smart thing for me to do. But how does that really serve you? When you're alone and you look in the mirror, are you saying, hey, we're doing the Best we could be. I'm tapping into my full potential. This is my more. As McConaughey says, this is my more. Or do you look in the mirror and go, ugh, yeah, let's find a way to muster the happiness today. Like, I just. I like people to get in check. I'm not talking about being a dreamer and quitting your job today and just hoping and praying and all of a sudden, wealth falls on you. I'm not a dreamer. I'm a realist. But I also like disturbing people. I love to get people disturbed with their own inaction because we got one shot. You know, this weekend, I did a lot of listening. It was Mother's Day, so yesterday I didn't work, but I got up super early and I was listening to some podcasts and really, like, Michael Singer, who I love Untethered Soul and a couple other books. I was listening to some of his stuff, and he's just like, you know, whatever you believe in the earth, 8 billion years old. I think that was the number he used. And we're here for 80 years. Maybe we're one of the hundreds of millions of stars and planets. Like, he just took. He made it so, like, big that my little life is not as. I shouldn't make it as difficult as I do, right? I got 80 years to try to not pass away at 85 and have regret. Like, I don't want to oversimplify it. And so what are the decisions we get to make or can make or should make the uncomfortable action we should make today so at the end of those 85 years, we can go thumbs up. I gave it my best while I was here. Right.

Well, and I think it's worth thinking of. I think of my dad a lot. So. My dad fixed copiers for a living. He made $45,000 a year and raised our family on that. Like, I mean, that's pretty amazing, honestly. And he worked really hard. Like, it was a hard job. Like, you know, clip on, tie, still toed shoes. So f by chance there was an accident, work, it wasn't going to strangle you if you got caught in the copier. You know, something, you know, fell on your foot, it wasn't going to break your foot. And his whole thing was always about retirement, right? Like, he was saving for retirement. He was saving for retirement, and he was a good saver. And then he died of a massive heart attack at the breakfast table at 48. You know, he never got there. And that really left a mark on me. I really thought when I worked so hard in my job and then so hard for myself. I regularly thought to myself, what if I only had this year? What if I only had two more years? What if I only had four more years? Is this my best life? Am I absolutely living the best life for me? Am I living a fully expressed life from getting to use all my time, all my talents in a way that lights me up? And I think so often we live in this world where people, you know, are getting, you know, medication for depression. It's like, do you need medication or do you need to step out and live a life that's fully expressed that lights you up? And I think a lot of times we're self medicating something that actually could be fixed just by stepping into a bigger version of ourselves. We know we're meant for more.

And when you listen to a podcast like this, we're not saying, oh, today's the moment. Just everything changes in a moment. Oh, thank you too. You changed my life forever. No, this is cumulative. Maybe listening to us today is just that little nudge you to go. Nudge you need for today to go enough. Today I will say I must or I can't, or I won't, or I do, I can't. Is it a day for a yes, a day for the no, or a day to at least investigate? Right? So that's when you listen to a podcast like this in 55 minutes or so. So it's not the whole blueprint of your life. But what I hope is, and I hope that's why this podcast is growing, is because we just want you to lean into who you're supposed to be and we bring in different guests to get the spark and emotion that disturbs you and go, I gotta do something today. Because the clock is ticking for all of us. It is ticking. And I just, the older I get at 54 right now, I just see how fast it's going to. My son was born yesterday, now he's three. Like, how did that happen? My daughter was born yesterday and she drives out of the driveway in her car at 16 years old going into 11th grade. How. And it's just going to pick up speed, right? So I guess these quick podcasts are just to disturb you. So if we do our part, take what serves you, throw the rest of the way for movement. I want to shift gears a little bit. You and I have had some deep conversations and I got a lot more that I want to talk to you about it because I feel like we can do this, something even Bigger. But I love the word common sense. And I feel, and I'm sure every generation feels this way. Our great, great, great, great grandparents thought, oh, this next generation screwed. And our great, you know, three greats ago, two greats ago, one grade ago, like, this next generation screwed. Now there's, you know, media pushes us so far apart, we're supposed to hate each other. And there's so much uncertainty. I guess it's even. It's even more than uncertainty. Uncertainty people can handle. Like, like it's, it's deeper than. I don't even know the word. It's like chaos. Like, it's, it's beyond. It's past uncertainty now. It's like stupidity and chaos. And. And the things that the media focuses on when the things that most of us want out of life are similar, whether you're liberal or conservative or moderate, we all want some of the same things. And I think we are missing common sense. We're just missing it. And here's the thing. I don't think everybody listening to this is missing common sense. I think the loud minorities on both sides are missing common sense. And I think the world, the universe, this country that I live in, that I love America, I think it'll come back together when people go, that just doesn't make sense. Right. So I want to ask you something. Was there, and let's go through the lens of common sense. Was there a moment in your life when you realized no one was coming to save you and it was on you? You couldn't blame anybody else? There was no president, no economy, up economy, low interest rates, down economy, high interest rates, good stock market, bad stock. Is it crypto? Is it AI? Is it the last president? Is it the current president? Is it the next president? Was there? Can you remember? Because I remember a moment in my life. Can you remember a moment in life? Go, oh, shit. This is just me and you. You and me in the mirror. That's it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So clearly. And it. I was getting a divorce from my first husband who. His family business had fallen apart and he had started drinking. I mean, his whole life imploded. He'd started drinking. And thank God I had started this business, this idea of starting this little business out of a bedroom in my home allowed us to pay the bills while he was figuring it out. And in many ways, I thought, you know, I'm going to be as successful as I can be just until he gets back on his feet. And then I realized he's not getting back on his feet. Feet and it ultimately led to us, hard conversation, getting a divorce. And I remember going to my family and saying, I'm going to move to New York City. Now at this time, I'd grown up in Virginia Beach. I was living in Charlotte, North Carolina. I'd never lived in a big city. I'd only been to New York City twice on a quick little trip. And I say to my mom, who had always been super positive and super supportive of anything I wanted to do, like, a lot of my credit, a lot of my success is because of my mother. So I go to this person. I bet a lot of you can relate to this. You go to someone that you trust with this big vision you have. And she's like, barry, you can't move to New York City. Like, you don't know anybody there. And it's the most expensive city in the country. And you're just starting out, starting your life over again and you're starting this new business and it's still fairly young. And why don't you live in the basement? Your dad and I could fix up the basement. You have your own entrance and you can get your life back together while you're figuring it out. And I remember this moment and it's hard. If you've ever had to say something to a parent that you really like, admire their wisdom. To go against that is hard. But I remember thinking just instantly, like, if I go in that basement, I'm never coming out. Like, literally or figuratively, I'm going to die there. Like, you don't go 38 years old and into your parents basement, the divorce and come out, you know. And so I was like, no, I'm moving to New York City. I know it's crazy. And this is a part about common sense. There's common sense and there's also intuition. And my intuition was, I know I'm meant for more. I know I'm meant to live in a bigger place and do bigger things. And I can't do it in the same environment. I've got to break through this environment to be the bigger version of myself. And when I did that, I knew my mom thought I was crazy, my sister thought I was crazy, my friends thought I was crazy because I was leaving everything that was safe and comfortable and going to a place where literally I knew no one and starting over again. But moving to New York City and getting this little apartment on Broadway, like a hat trick just to get that apartment. But thank God, my little. My landlord, Ralph Saab, I'll be forever grateful to Someone. When you're using common sense and intuition, sometimes when you're doubling down on yourself, there'll be someone out there who believes in you just enough to give you a chance. And that was my landlord, Ralph Saab. He said yes to me, even though on paper it was a crazy choice. But he saw something in me and said yes. And in that apartment in New York City, I doubled the size of my business that year. And then the next year, I doubled it again, and I worked tirelessly. Like, to your point, Dean, it's not like a magic wand. It's not like you decide this and all of a sudden everything appears. But it's in making the decision, that combination of common sense, what makes sense for me, what is knowable and true, and intuition. I know. I meant for more. It's at the intersection of those two things, I think that we do own our future and step outside our comfort zone. And if you're thinking about doing something like this, you know, I heard someone say this recently, getting out of your comfort zone doesn't have to mean going out on a ledge. Like New York City was a ledge for me. I went way out of my comfort zone to do that. But if you're just getting started on something like this, whether you're thinking of starting your own business or you've started your own business, or you're growing your own business out of your comfort zone, could be one step out of your comfort zone. Doesn't have to be a mile outside your comfort zone. But I do think it's those baby steps that define us and take us where we're supposed to be. And for me, that was one of the most pivotal moments in my life, is just saying yes to what I knew to be true, even if it made no sense to anybody else.

No, I got. I love unpacking, packing that I have so many thoughts. Because you physically moved, right? So you had to move your thinking true. You had. You had a. You had to question these beliefs. You had to question certainty, and you physically moved. But I was thinking, even if you didn't physically move, the only way that would have changed is if you moved. The other things, if you move your.

Threshold, had to come first. Like, you had to make the mental leap before you could make the physical one. And part of that is believing that there's a different future for you, believing that it could be different, believing that you are meant for more. And I have to tell you, one of the most important things in doing this is to surround yourself with people who think that way. And what really helped me is the business I had started. I ended up serving the personal development space. So this little fledgling meeting planning business I had, out of some, you know, this. This is a little bit God, a little bit faith, a little luck, but I ended up serving the market that you and I are in. I stumbled into it accidentally. And so every time I ran an event, I was getting a dose of personal development, and I was surrounded by people on the stage and off of it who believed not only believed that they were meant for more, but were taking the steps to claim it. And being surrounded and immersed in that gave me permission, I think, to say yes to myself. I don't know if it would have happened if I hadn't had the certainty that comes from seeing other people live their best life and thinking, well, if you can do it, I can do it, too. And now you and I are both in the business of helping people do that. It's like one of the best things in my life is not only did I pull myself out of a future I didn't want and create the future I did want, I get to do that for a living, for other people.

Now, isn't it the greatest gift in the world that people ask me all the time, do you love what you do? It's like, I don't do anything else except kids, wife, work. And I love it. Like, I can't wait to wake up in the morning because we get to do this for a living. And I want to. I want to ask you about this, working with Matthew McConaughey. Great. We got to do something amazing, all that cool stuff. We got some other cool things coming up because as a byproduct of that, I can't wait to share with everybody when it's time. But one thing that really helped me is we did have 2.8 million people. Day one, watched the training that we did, and we offered a course called Road Trip, and tens of thousands of people got enrolled. But what really filled my heart because you know more than anyone how much prep no one would know, the invisible that happened to make that happen. And the things to pull off having 550,000 people live at the same time, and all the things that went on, and Matthew going all in on creating the course and creating the workshop and scripting every word that came out of his head that he wanted to, no one could ever know the countless time. Long story short, though, we go live that day, and I'm going to guess that there was a million people that day. A million Think about that. If you're old enough to know what Woodstock was, if you ever see the pictures of Woodstock, there was a half a million people at Woodstock, and it was miles of rolling people. This was four times, five times that on day one of Woodstock. Right? So I'm going to. I'm going to say a million people, because we surveyed them who have never been exposed to personal development or buying a course or thinking differently or not being trapped with the thoughts that they have or realizing that they had a limiting belief that I'm a woman who went through a divorce and maybe I'm stuck here. And that day there were, like, tears and going, I'm not stuck. Like, sometimes I think, Barry, we take for granted that I'm around this every day. Tony Robbins is my partner. We talk about seven days a week. Like, I work with Brendan Burchard and you and Dr. Amen and all these cool people that are a part of my everyday. And what it made me realize is there's so many people that don't even know that there's an alternative way to think. And as I say that if someone's not new, they're like, well, of course, Dean. And if someone's new, listen to this. Like, yeah, but you don't know what I'm going through. And I don't. But I also know that if I didn't put myself in this business, I could be in my fifth marriage, unhappy, miserable, working on cars still. And I'm not saying working on cars is a bad thing, but it truly did save my life. That was my epiphany that day. And when I see that, it makes me. Because there was even some people saying, why would McConaughey sell a course? I'm like, oh, my God. I wasn't upset. I was like, I want to help those people more because they don't realize that that few hundred bucks could change their life more than any other one thing in history. It's why I love selling courses. It's why I love partner McConaughey and Tony Robbins and Brandon Bashar and all these great people and you and all the things that come is because what it did for me, like, God damn if I would have been stuck. My parents were married nine times. I lived in a trailer park until we got evicted from the trailer park. Like, shifting my thoughts and my beliefs through courses and workshops and masterminds is literally the reason I'm here and blessed to have a number one podcast in our category in six weeks. How? Because of that. So I'm sorry, that was a rant. But that's what I learned. And I felt through that experience, you were with us through the whole journey of McConaughey. I said a lot, so there's a lot to unpackage. Was there something that was an aha for you and anything else that, you know, kind of came to mind as I was ranting?

Well, you know, in aha, just in that whole process of working with you and Matthew McConaughey. So, first of all, I don't think many. Even if you've been following Dean for a while, you might not know how intentional he is, how much thought goes into everything he does. So I get most of my messages from Dean at 6:30 in the morning, his time, and he's usually on a treadmill. So, like, that go, team, go attitude of like, he's up, he's on a treadmill, he's getting after it. He's putting all of his thoughts together for the day. So that piece has always impressed me about you, is that everything you do is so intentional. And that's like in micro moments, like getting up, getting after it before you take the kids to school. It's like you're on the treadmill, getting your thoughts together for the day, getting everybody what they need so that they can help you deliver the big vision that we're creating together. That's micro intention. Then the macro intention was reading that book and thinking, I need to reach out to him. I need to find a way to reach out to him. There's more to this story. Like, I want to know more than I want to know at the end of Green Lights, what happens next. I want to know how to help more people do that. And the ability that your ability to track him down, enroll him, we talk about sales of service and roll him in a bigger vision of what was possible. Because I don't think he really knew what could happen through our industry. He knew movies, he knew books, he knew tv. I don't think he knew what could happen through our industry. Take that bigger vision and roll him in it. And then as we started to partner on it together, watching his intentionality, like every word, like every word was scripted, every word was labored over because he so wanted to get the right method in people's and to serve them. And I don't. I think you might think that at that level, Dean might phone it in or Matthew might phone it in, or they might just be so good they don't have to put a lot of work into it. It magically happens. But the number of hours that went into making that course was on point for the audience we were trying to target and help and support. And the number of hours that went into making sure that that one day, which I think at the end of the day was like six hours live. How many hours were spent to make six hours transform for people? And I think people might miss that in general. And so, you know, you could look at that and say, wow, it's so hard, or look at it and think, it's not hard if every minute of is something you truly love doing. And we pulled a couple all nighters to pull that off. I think, you know, Jeremy Finlay and I were up, I don't know, all night the before working on things. And that for one minute, did I resent it or did it feel like work? Because I so believed in the mission, I so believed in the message, and I so believed in the transformation we could create. And I think that is the heart of the own. Your future concept is that the easiest way to own it is to do something you really love because it will never feel like work. And it's the most easy thing in the world to get paid for something you're really good at. But you have to be willing to A, find out what it is and B, commit the time to mastery, to getting really good at it. And watching you watching Matthew, being part of that process was actually one of the, like, one of my most favorite things I've ever done.

Wow. Thank you for those kind comments. And I have to tell you, what a gift. If we could have every single listener say, I could. I pulled an all nighter and there's no other place I'd rather be. Like, that is the gift that we hope we spark in every single person listening right now. That's why we do this. It's why I'm here. Like I said, I don't do any advertising on my podcast right now. And I'm probably never willing. I just want to give back in a way where it's ignite someone. Whether that's selling what you know or writing a book or doing a course or becoming a coach or, you know, teaching other people in your industry how to go faster or whatever it is that's on your soul. We hope to plant that seed, plant that have you be disturbed without taking action on who you're supposed to become. You know, let me, let me go one step further so many times, Barry, you are. If you guys ever worked, it sounds like we're having a love fest. Here, just bragging about each other. But Barry is. She takes command in such an elegant way. Whatever room she's in, she will take command of it. Not like. More like, wow, there's our leader. Right? You've helped people generate hundreds of millions of dollars. You have multiple companies, you have your dream home and a spare home and a travel home, all this cool stuff. I think sometimes when people see that from the outside, when they're in the spot where their parents say, move in the basement. Sorry about the divorce. That's not for you. You should be lucky. That's for other people. It's not the right time in history. You're too old to start over. You're too young to understand that. When they're in that moment, Barry, it's hard for them sometimes to see someone like you who's killing it and go, you can't relate to me, Barry. Look where you are now. You don't understand what this feels like. What are some of the things that no one would know that you still worry about when no one's watching that are still lingering from that girl who packed up and went to New York?

Well, so I think a lot of us can probably relate to imposter syndrome. I think that shows up in a lot of layers, especially when you're swinging for the fences and you're going outside your comfort zone. And we have a saying, new level, new devil. Every time you uplevel, there's like a new little devil kind of waiting for you, some little problem that you have to solve. But I find for me, a lot of it comes back to, like, you know, I know. I meant for more. I know I'm really good at what I'm doing. But every time you up level, you think, am I good enough for this next level? Like, is this where I'll be found out? Is this where the road ends?

Yeah, they'll find out. I'm not that smart. I always. That was mine for two decades.

Yeah. And it really. It is like that little voice in the back of your mind. And I think part of our journey, especially if you're going to grow your own business, is building this muscle to know that you're capable of that next level. And so you have to keep pushing for it. And when you do, you build that next muscle that allows you to be even more capable to go even further. And for me, I was bullied in high school. Like, I had a terrible, terrible high school experience. I could not wait for high school to be over. It was a very unkind three Years. And I am so glad that social media wasn't around when I was in high school. Like, I'm forever grateful to deal with that, too. But I think these, these circumstances in the back of our mind, in our, in our former lives come back up. Right. So for me, a big thing I had to overcome was visibility. You know, to put yourself out there, especially today on social media and to know that someone might say something unkind is to immediately take you back to high school, immediately bring up imposter syndrome, Right?

Yep.

And so if there's something like that for you, for any of your listeners who are out there thinking, I'm afraid to be seen, or I'm afraid to be visible, or I'm afraid someone will say something ugly, or I'm afraid I won't be good enough, or I'm afraid, afraid, afraid, whatever the thing might be, at some level of probably imposter syndrome, hiding, lurking in the background, it's no, the only way to slay that dragon is to get out there and do it. And it's easier if you go, you know what? I bet someone's going to say something ugly about me. And if they do, they're not my right fit client. You would call it your dot, but you know, they're not the person I'm meant to serve. And once I started attaching myself to that gave me so much freedom. When I really started to look at what a hater might say or someone bullying me on social media might say, one, it was a fraction compared to all the positive change I was creating. But it's really easy to focus on the one negative thing instead of all the positive things. So focus on the positive. And then I'd look at that person and think, are you really the person I meant to serve? Are you really the person that I was hoping to, to work with, to support? And nine times out of 10, I'm like, I, if I. And this, I hope, I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't even want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with you. If I met you, I would literally think you're not my person. And I would walk the other way.

As Trent Shelton Tren Elton calls them delusioned fans because they're still following you. He's like, when I would see people post on like 6 of my videos in a row, oh, you're not real. You're just an ex NFL football player. He's like, I would just write back and say, it's the sixth video you commented on you're a delusioned fan. Come on, let's just get real. And if I could help you, I'm here. I'm like, that is a good perspective. Anyway, I just had to share that. I love that.

No, it is. I'm going to remember that. And so don't let that hold sway over you. You know, do not not let what one person's negative comment, something they said to you in junior high or high school or college, control you forever. Don't let something someone says on social media keep you from doing your big dream. And don't let the. The nagging fear that you might not be good enough keep you from believing you are. Because I think, I really believe we're all capable of more. Like, we're all born with the ability to be more. But you do have to take that first step to do it. And in addition to imposter syndrome, I think most of us are introverts. I think we read as extroverts, but most people in this industry that you would think are the most extroverted people on the planet, truth be told, we're the most introverted people on the planet, but we believe enough in our mission to get out there and be visible and do it anyway.

God, what a great call. I mean, you know, me personally on stage, I'm great. On camera, I'm great. Get me in a crowd with a lot of people, I'm the one hiding. So I understand that completely. What great, great, great words, Barry. Thank you. This is. This is going to help so many people because we're all in this together and we all have the same crap and we got to deal with the same crap. But staying still still gives you crap, right? There's no like, oh, if I put myself out there, I could fail. Oh, that would look bad. Leave yourself where you are. How does that feel? What if we fast forward in five years from now, I do an anniversary podcast with Barry, and imagine if you were in the same exact spot you were today, having the same thoughts that you need to move, you need to shake, you need to say, I do. I don't. I can't. I must. What if you were in the same exact spot five years from now? How much more painful would that feel? Right? I know it's a worn out slogan. McConaughey would call it dusty. We still have McConaughey ism stuck in us because we spent a lot of time together. But, you know, the best time to plant a tree is 10 years ago. Second best time is right this very second. So maybe we can nudge you to plant that tree of who you're supposed to be today. I want to switch a little bit into sales and marketing, influence, persuasion, whatever you want to call it. You know. You know, my feeling on sales is service. And you know that no company thrives until you get a yes. And you don't get a yes until you persuade or influence someone to get a yes. With that said, put a pin in it. I've been helping people start businesses, scale, grow, become a better version of themselves for a long time. And I would say if I was going to put a blanket over it, 75%, especially of women when they first start, they love all the idea, but the thought of making a sale. And I know your story about the Girl Scout cookies, right?

But.

But it's that, ah, I. And. And I think we have a different perspective. Like, sales has a negative. You know, selling drugs is bad, but that's not the selling. It's the person doing the selling. Right? It's the ethics of the person. So I don't want to prompt you too much. I would just love for somebody out there right now where their business is doing okay, but they need to step up their marketing and sales. They're dying to start their own thing. They're a solopreneur, but the sales part worries them or someone. Today is like, I got a career, but it's time for me to shift. But, ugh, I gotta sell. How would you put a spin on it? Not a spin to try to manipulate, a spin of reality because you live in this world. What's your definition of sales? What would be some advice you could give someone? Someone?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think instead of thinking of as I've got to sell, think of it as I've got to serve. Most people I know love serving. It's the selling that makes them nervous. And so I often think of it as the Costco analogy. Like, if you go to Costco on Saturday, I love going on a Saturday because why? They have somebody at the end of the aisle with a little, like, snack a little more. So they're like, hey, would you like to try this? You're like, I would. And you try it. Like, that's amazing. Like, I thought you'd say that. Would you like, one box or two? And before you know it, you've got two boxes in your cart. And it's like. It's like the Girl Scouts analogy. I mean, Dean mentioned it. I quit Girl Scouts because I did not want to sell. I did not want to sell cookies. I literally loved everything about girl Scouts. But the minute they mentioned selling cookies, I'm like, I'm out. That was like a hard no for me. So to fast forward to a career where I'm actually known for my sales and service approach, like, how'd that happen? But if they had told me, Girl Scouts, listen, all you have to do is get them to taste a thin mint. I could have done that all day long. Like, I really believed in thin Mints. I just didn't believe in selling right. But if I had just been able to say, why don't you try this? And someone said, that's amazing. Like, I know they're the best cookie. Would you like one box or two? I mean, at the end of the day, that's really what we're doing with our businesses. Our goal is to get people to try to sample the thing that we're really good at. And I often think of this buyer psychology as like, you can do that. Like, at the sample phase, it's like, really, you can do that? Our job is like, yeah, you can do that. Let me show you how. And the more they learn about it, it's like, well, wait a minute. Now that you explain that, I think I could do that. Now you've transferred the concept of opportunity to them. That's how you've served them. It's like they've gone from I didn't even know I could do that to think I could do that. And then the more they learn from you, they're going to progress to, I will do that. Like, I'm actually going to take what you're teaching and I'm going to go out there and do it. I'm going to apply it. And then our job is to take them to, I must do that, and I'm crazy not to do that. If you think of the sales process and human buyer psychology, it really is the journey from you can do that, I could do that, to I will do that, I must do that. I'm crazy not to do that. And if you really believe in what you're selling and what you're serving, that's an easy journey to take them on. Because at every level, you're giving them a taste, they fall in love with it and say, this is amazing. I want more. Like, I thought you would. Let me introduce you to the next step in my process. And I think just breaking it down that way makes it so much easier to embrace a service based approach. And it's what we do every day, whether we're on, you know, a webinar, a challenge, a product launch, an event, a high ticket offer. At the end of the day, sales, all sales comes down to serving first. So we often say if you serve hard, you can sell easy. So for all of you out there that are like, I love serving, you should be easy, easy, easy, able to make that leap to selling, because serving is selling. When you start to look at that way and focus on the person, not yourself, again, I think that's a challenge, too. We get nervous when we think of selling because it's about us. What if they reject us? What if they don't accept us? What if they don't buy what I've got versus I really want to serve you, and I hope you'll take me up on this because I can change your life forever, or your business forever, or your weight forever, or your addiction forever, whatever. The thing is that you're. That you're. That you're uniquely good at. To know that it would be a disservice not to, like, you're put on this planet for a reason. You have a special gift. You have a desire to share and to serve. It'd be a disservice not to offer that person who needs you the next step to transform their life, their business, whatever it might be. It's a whole different way of looking at it. That paradigm shift can keep you from being stuck and broke forever.

Oh, God, what great words. I don't even need to give any input. Just talking back. Sometimes when Tony and I are doing a live event or we're doing a Challenge or the McConaughey event, and I get the honor of making an offer offer like I did for McConaughey. And sometimes I'll get. Someone says, like, how are you so excited about making an offer? It's like, well, if I work with Tony every day, I watch him spend six months obsessing on a campaign, a product that can serve people when they need it in this crazy world. And I know that he's not sleeping, and he's taken his 45 years of experience and go, I got to give him the best. People need this now. They're hurting, and it gets on stage. I'm not thinking, thinking, oh, my God, I have to sell these people. What I'm thinking is, oh, my God, I'm going to screw all these people over if I don't get them to say yes. I watched McConaughey on and off for six months on Zooms, working Then we sat in the office, just in the other room here. You were at the table five days straight till midnight, going over every word to impact people's lives. I couldn't wait to sell it, because I wasn't selling. I'm like, I get to serve these people with a course that can transform their lives. And I know if you're listening right now and you're not in our world, you could be offended by that, but I'd really ask you to stop and think, right? I mean, we'll spend money on the stupidest things we all do. Guilty right here. And sometimes when we can spend money on the map to get us through the woods quicker to where we're supposed to be, we're like, no, no, no. I'll just go figure it out. The woods don't look that scary, right? And so when people ask me, why do you smile or so happy when you sell? It's like, well, I wouldn't feel that way if I wasn't selling something that I didn't know could truly impact a life. And, yeah, I love drance.

When we were. We were sitting around that table for days working on the course with Matthew, and never once in three days of sitting around a table and scripting the course did you or hear anyone around that table ever say, do you think if we did this, it would sell more? It was always, you think if we don't language this a certain way, though, will they get it? Will it actually serve them? Like, if we don't. You know, there's something in this story I think may not land. Could we push it a little bit further? Because I want to make sure that we.

So true. So true.

And so when you come from that place, I think it's rare that you don't end up with the sales. Following a heart for service leads to an easy sale. And so it's an easy. I think it's easy in our space because in order to build a business, you have to sell to make it about the selling. But if you make it about the serving, the rest will follow.

I love it. I love it. Barry, in this podcast since we started, there's always a part where I ask if you got a question for me, if there's anything you. And I get these questions all the time because you could pick up the phone and we do have these brainstorms, but anything on your mind you want to ask or you feel we should talk about.

So one of my. You do two things I think are amazing. One is your ability to whiteboard and reverse engineer something is like no other that's like there should be. You should actually do, if you haven't already, a podcast on whiteboarding, because it is like your zone of genius. But the other thing is helping people define their dot, which you call their dot, which is the person that you're meant to serve and to talk just for a second about what that is. But more importantly, I think I see people struggle with this every day. Is once I know who my dot is, the person that I know I'm meant to serve, where do I find them? How do I attract them? Because one of the hardest things in our space is to build a list of followers. So once you're clear on who your follower is, how do you find them? Attract them. Because I think your zone of genius is to do exactly that and to do it on a scale nobody else has done in our space.

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And when we say the dot, I just. There was a time five years ago, on a whiteboard, I drew a big circle, then a smaller circle, smaller so it looked like a bullseye. And in the middle, I said, that's who you have to focus on is your dot, your person. Sometimes when we start a new business, we start a marketing business, we start a coaching business. You want to do a podcast, we. We aim too wide. And there's a saying I heard in million times is fuzzy targets don't get hit. If you think you're trying to attract 8 billion people in the world or 7.7 billion, how many people are in the world, that's a big wide, and it's hard to hit that target. And we just got to keep narrowing it down to the person that we want to serve. Like, who can you solve problems for? Who can you help? Go to another level. Right. Barry helps people, a lot of people in the live event business. She's not helping people. She's not helping accountants get better at creating SOPs for the. For the accounting department. Right. That would be outside her norm. So we say that the dot, to me, is your niche, your ideal client, the person that you can serve. Tony and I help people through Mastermind, find their niche to sell a product, a course, what we dealt for McConaughey, or a mastermind or a workshop. So just wanted to give you that reference of the dot. So the dot is I'm going to sell something, or I am selling something. I'm currently in business. How do I find more of my ideal client? Because you want your ideal client. Barry, you said this earlier, when somebody Said something like, that's not the person I want to have coffee with, not the person I want to serve. So don't try. The best definition of marketing is serving, attracting those you want and repelling those you don't. And most people don't have that. That filter. That's just like, I'm in business. I'll take everybody. No, that makes a fragmented, diluted business. And you won't get rave reviews. You serve the person you want. So sorry if I beat that up too much, but I just wanted to be clear on that. So how do you attract that? Here's a couple reasons. If I look through the lens, you know, where I'm at now is a little different than where I was when I first started. And I would say this, I would bet to say I have read. I want you to hear this. I have probably read more comments from the people I want to serve than anyone you'll ever meet. Leave me a comment on my podcast. I probably am one of the rare people who will read it. Let me know what you're thinking. Let me know what you like in our Facebook group. We have one Facebook group with almost a million people. I'm in it almost every day, reading what their comments, what are their dreams, what are their goals, what are their desires? But what are their fears? What are they afraid of? Of where are they failing? Where are they stuck? Where are they uncertain? So I want you to hear this. Live inside the mind of your ideal client. Don't try to create a new conversation. Enter their conversation. Don't try to create a new sentence. Finish their sentences. So how do you know them so well? In our business, a lot of times our ideal client is US of a few years ago. Right? US of five years ago, US of 20 years ago. If you're going into something different, no matter what business you're going into, I promise you there are Facebook groups and Instagram and YouTube. There are places where those people meet. Right? I want to help women going through divorce be more secure and not forget to love themselves. There are groups right now online of women going through a divorce who are losing themselves. Go into that group, read 100, read a thousand comments, and put yourself in those shoes. That is the beginning. Because what most people think, Barry, is where do I market and how do I run an ad? And is it. What's the headline of the ad and is it a blue ad? Do I do lots of graphics? All of that is part of it, but unless you're meeting them where they are, I don't Care how good your ads look or how much you spend for the video or for whatever it is, you must meet them where they are. So. So number one is decide who you want to serve, whose problems can you solve? And go find them and live inside their mind, live inside their head, Stay up at night trying to solve their problems, try to help them get to where they want to go. And then all of your messages seem so crystal clear, right? When I see somebody who's marketing message, and I go, hmm, who's that for? I know they're not going to make it, but did you ever see a message and you go, oh, message? It could be on your social media, on your Instagram page, even if you have five followers. Trent Sheldon always talks. The first year, his mom and his aunt were like, the only two people that watched his videos. Now he's like the third most watched human on the planet. You know what I mean? So. But he had one consistent message, and the more he consistently shared that message, the more that the people that wanted that message found him. And the smoke, the snowball got bigger and bigger. And then the. That led to more followings. It led to a podcast, it led to courses, it led to a New York Times bestselling book. It led to this message and viral, and then led to ads and all those types of things. So there's lots of places I go, you know, my brain, I always go upstream, Barry. And upstream. Live inside the mind of the person you can solve problems for, or you can take them to their goals, see what they're saying, see what their goals, their fears, their worries. See where they've been let down before, meet them where they are, finish their conversations, enter conversations, or finish their sentences. And, man, that's how you serve at the highest level. And all of a sudden, the snowball happens, and don't expect it to happen overnight. I love when Tony says, we all overestimate what we can do in a year and underestimate what we can do in five.

It's so good. That's some of the best marketing advice you'll ever get. It is the best thing to work on to grow your business and to grow your vision of who you're meant to serve. Which makes that selling easier when you do that. And I was going to. And then you said it, progress, not perfection. You know, we were talking about, what epiphanies did you have working with Matthew? One of the things he said is people give up too easy. You know, they just give up too soon. And I think it's so true. Like this, the starting point is to put yourself out there and then it's a process of iteration. Just keep going, one more step, one more step doing it until you get to the success that you're looking for. The journey is part of the joy of being a business for yourself and owning your future. It's not the destination, it's the daily steps. And there's little wins, there's micro wins that happen along the way.

I love it. Barry, where can people find you?

The easiest way to find us is sagehub.com Yep, that's the. You know, right now we're in the process of, you know, serving people through the power of live events and high ticket offers. That's the business we love to be in, is helping people have a sales and service approach to designing a high ticket offer and launching it through the power of a live event.

Well, you're one of the best in the world that it's so good to. I love our friendship, I love our journey, I love to the exciting things we get to work on together. And I got something pretty big coming. Barry, I can't wait to. It's about a week away from a definitive yes and once I know, you'll be the first to know. And then everybody listening, you'll know shortly after that. Guys, thank you so much for being a part of the Own youn Future podcast. And I mean it. Thank you for helping us get to number one in our category. And we just want to deliver value, deliver what you need. If you like this podcast, please please share it with those that you love or those that need it and subscribe or follow. That's how we get to grow and impact more lives. And I will keep bringing you the best of the best. Thank you so much and we'll see you on the next episode.