Around the Kitchen Table - How to Make Chicken and Shrimp Pepperoni

¡Hey everyone! I'm Chef Dennis Littley and welcome to another edition of Around the Kitchen Table. We're happy to have you here today and we're going to make something, one of my wife's favorite meals actually, and it's chicken and shrimp pepperoni. You know, I sometimes feel like I say that every week, but she loves all of my cooking and so almost everything I make is her favorite. Every now and then we hit something she's not too fond of, but for the most part She loves it. We're having a good time today in Florida. It's a beautiful sunny day, no humidity. The past couple of days have been perfect after about 3 days of rain. We're enjoying this before the heat of the summer starts. We're going to make a nice meal today that's one of my restaurant-style meals, and we'll get you in and out of the kitchen in under 30 minutes. How's that sound to you, Susan? Sounds like a pretty good deal?

Yes. Oh, that sounds great. Come on, no humidity? So really? Yep.

The past 2 days have been like paradise.

Wow. Well, enjoy them. I hope you're enjoying it because let me tell you, I told you last week I was in 90% humidity in New Orleans. And Pensacola— forget Pensacola. After we had the show, we had the biblical storm to end all storms.

I know, we had it here for about 3 days. Friday I drove up to Daytona for a Ford event, and on the way back it was— I wanted to stop and build an ark, that's how bad the rain was. It was really bad.

Oh, it was so bad, and I don't know if you saw any of my postings, but we were supposed to go back to New York Thursday at a 7 AM flight, and that was when— oh no, Wednesday. And the storm was in full force, full force. So we go down to the parking garage level, the elevators open, and the water gushes into the elevator. Let me tell you, it was frightening. And then we were in a little elevator room, and then we were scared to death to open up the doors to the parking garage because then we thought we'd be submerged like in Tucson. So eventually It worked out okay, and we actually got to spend another day at no charge at this beautiful, beautiful resort. So it worked out okay. And here we have sunny skies too, so it worked out well. And you know what's coming up is Mother's Day.

Mother's Day is not too far around the corner.

Yeah, so what did— what did you like to recommend for, you know, the brunch or a late breakfast or brunch?

Well, you know, it all depends what you like to eat. You can make some, you know, some sweet things. You know, I go with some kind of an egg dish, and I used to like to make frittatas, an Italian egg dish, and you can put just about anything you want into it. They're very forgiving. Rather than just a plain quiche, you know, it's a little something different. I even threw a day-old crusty bread in there, pieces of that in there to build it up with. So you can have fun with that, and maybe just think a little bit outside the norm on whatever breakfast meats. If you want to get some bacon, get some really good applewood smoked bacon or some nice fresh ground sausage and form your own patties and cook those up, or even make a type of hash with some potatoes. But I think anything you make for mom, She's gonna love it. Yeah, she doesn't have to cook. And make sure you clean up too.

That— there you go. You know, in my house we have bacon wars, and the war is— I mean, I was brought up that you sauté bacon and then you put it on the paper towel. And, and my son comes in and he lives with us now and he says, no, you don't do that now, you put it in the oven. And it takes like 3 times as long in the oven., but I have to say it's drier and crisp, and it's like straight. It's perfectly straight. You don't have that curliness. Do you have a preference?

Well, I've been using the oven for years.

Oh, you have.

I love bacon, but the one thing I don't like is while the smell of it cooking is a wonderful thing, the lingering of the smell of it cooking is not a wonderful thing. After a while, I don't want to smell bacon anymore. To be honest with you, unless I'm doing something really special with bacon, I buy the precooked bacon now. Are you kidding? Nope, because I can have bacon in minutes. I just throw it in a frying pan. There's no grease. It really isn't very bad at all. It's good. You can make BLTs with it. You can make grilled cheese with bacon with it. You can really use it. I picked that up at a big box club, and it's really not expensive. I wouldn't use it if I was sautéing something or if I was trying to make a a bacon blue cheeseburger with some really nice thick slices of specialty bacon. But for bacon and eggs in the morning when I'm half asleep, or for just a BLT real quick for lunch, you can't beat it.

Yeah, no, that sounds great. Hey, I have a few props here and I want to show you. I'm newly obsessed with organization. And you know, all your little— it occurred to me that I have a million tiny things, like electronics or for my camera equipment. I saw in my son's— over his door he has almost this shoe, you know, the hanging shoe rack, but it's all for electronics. And I said, that's it. My desk is a mess, so many tiny things. So now I'm totally obsessed with organization. And then I looked at my kitchen counter and I saw I have the 3 different ways to store salt. So I thought I would show you. First of all, I have this, this little guy here, which is a, some sort of wooden, it's a gift I got at some event I went to. And what you do is you take this part down, and then you slide this over, and then here, here's the salt. So it makes a nice presentation, it keeps it sealed in a way. The only thing, Chef, is these— I don't know if you can really see it, but these salt crystals are enormous. I've never seen— I think I got the salt as a gift. What do you do with these enormous salt crystals? Can a salt crystal be too big?

It depends how you're going to eat it. If you're putting it in something that's going to melt, it's going to melt. A lot of it is just for show. You wouldn't put that on vegetables and get a big unless you really have a salt thing, a really big piece of salt on it. If you're making a soup or a stew, and it's out on the counter, and you want it to look pretty, then you can use it. I try to buy a finely ground sea salt for just about table use, and then a medium grind for cooking.

Okay. Okay, that's it. I don't know. The salt confuses me. What can I say? Then I have these little salts where I went to Spain in February, I got these— there was this spice, this whole entire wall. There had to be 50 to 100 types of salts. These are 4 types of salts. One is a barbecue salt. One is an olive salt. One, I don't even know what it is. It says, "Sal Aje Roja Hawaii." Who knows?

Red Hawaiian salt, sea salt.

Okay, so what do I use that for? Anything special?

It's just, you know, a lot of the salts have minerals in them, and depending upon where they came from, you know, it's like anything else, mineral deposits will change the color of them. You know, it's just like shrimp. You know, shrimp are different colors because of what they feed on. So, you know, that's pretty much it.

Okay, all right, so it's a color thing. And then I want to show you— this is one of my favorite things. This is a typical Scandinavian piece of porcelain that is actually a salt container. And there's a little hole here, and you put it on the, you know, attach it to the wall, and then you have a beautiful, beautiful container of salt. So I just thought I'd bring my salt paraphernalia here and show you a few little pieces here. And today our special guest is none other than you, Yeah. So I thought it would be fun to kind of dig a little deeper and do the whole 60 Minutes, you know, interview of Chef and what's he all about and where did, you know, where did all this fabulous food come from. So a little later in the show we'll, you know, talk about you. So, yeah, so what else is going on?

Anything? Not a whole lot. You know, I'm just happy to be be in nice weather after all the rain we had and enjoying the life down here, getting ready for summer to take hold and just beat us to death with the heat and humidity. But for now, we're still loving it.

Good, good, good. Okay, so you have the trifecta today. You have fish, meat, and chicken. So tell us about the dish.

Okay, it's a dish that I was taught early in my career, and it was actually just chicken pepperoni.. And a friend of mine that I worked for had come up with it. There was a movie with Chevy Chase and Goldie Hawn a few years back. I can't remember the name of it, but their housekeeper was making chicken pepperoni for the governor, and the guy never really knew what it was, but he decided it sounded like a good dish, so he just started working with it until he got it where he liked it. So, you know, it was always a big hit at the restaurants, and then I started adding shrimp into it because, you know, everybody loves shrimp. Again, it's a nice way to serve an upscale dish without costing a whole lot of money. You just add a few shrimp into the chicken with the chicken and you've upgraded the meal to more of a memorable occasion rather than just chicken.

Sure, sounds good.

I'm getting my pan hot here. I'm going to add a little extra virgin olive oil into the pan. Change these cameras so you can get a good bird's eye view of that. Alright, and then what I'm going to put in are the things that are going to cook, take the longest to cook, and we're going to start with the chicken.

Okay, I already have a question on your flouring it.

Yes.

And then you— and I saw the recipe says skinless chicken thighs, and we know we love chicken thighs. But now my question is, you know, what happens when you brown, when you sauté and you brown skinless, skinless chicken? I mean, does it get tough on the outside? Or because I think for a lot of us, we have recipes that say, you know, brown the chicken, brown the skin chicken, but we really want to take the skin off. But we're also afraid that the outside will get strong and tough. What do you think?

Not really. It depends how you cook it. You just have to control it. Chicken will only get tough if you overcook it. If you cook it correctly, the outside is still going to be nice. It's going to have a little crust on it. One of the reasons I use flour is to help that. It helps protect it a little bit. It helps it build a little bit of a crust on it. So it's not getting as overcooked. Or it's burned. So we want to get a little color to it. We want it to look pretty. And one of the reasons, you know, using the thighs are in vogue right now. Most of the restaurants you go to, people are finding out pretty much, you know, what we as chefs knew all along is that the more the flavor was in the thigh. It's got a little more fat content in it. It doesn't dry out as quickly. So it's going to carry more flavor than the chicken breast would to begin with.

That makes sense that it has sort of a protective coating and you can really do— have the best of both worlds.

So after I turn, whenever— my rule of thumb on cooking is whenever I turn chicken over, that's when I start adding things that are going to take a little bit longer to cook. And the bell peppers are going to take a little bit longer, so they're going in next. Then you just keep an eye on it, stir it up a little bit. I'm going to actually put in a little bit of garlic right now too. I didn't want to add it too soon because I didn't want it just burning away. True. So I'm going to add the garlic in.

Mmm, anything with garlic, I'm there. That's it.

I'm not sure if I have that on the recipe or not, but I do use a little garlic. Now I'm searing the meat. I'm getting it sealed. So I've seared it up pretty good. And then I'm just going to let it cook a little bit. If you want it to look pretty, you can let it really get a nice crust on one side, and it'll be brown. And then when you go to serve it, then you can leave it with that side up. So now I'm going to add some mushrooms in.

Mm-hmm.

And again, we use mushrooms for a bunch of reasons. One of the reasons is it's a lot cheaper than meat, and it extends the meal, makes it look larger. Mushrooms are flavorful, and mushrooms also help cut the calories down. So if you're cooking at home and you use mushrooms in place of more meat, you're actually saving yourself some calories from other ingredients as well. So it's a really great way to make this meal even better.

And are those regular white mushrooms, or are they— That's white mushrooms. Okay.

Regular buttons. Or not buttons, but the smaller ones. They have these huge mushrooms too. All right, so, you know, it's getting to where it's moving along pretty good here. Chicken's getting cooked, peppers are getting cooked. It's a nice color. See how I'm getting some color on the chicken and parts of it?

Yeah, yeah.

So that's what you want. That'll look pretty. So it's almost where I'd want to stop it to move on here. Now you can, if you have white wine in the house, you can hit it with a little white wine now, and that's going to deglaze the pan. That's going to pull all the flour bits and meat bits that were on the pan and to help make the sauce. I'm just going to use some chicken stock because I don't have any white wine open. Okay. I'm not really going to open it just for this. I put a little chicken stock in. That's going to do the same thing as deglazing. I'm going to turn my heat down considerably. I'm going to add in— there's only a few more ingredients. I can put the shrimp in now because it's almost done. So let's put those in. I actually should have sautéed them up before I hit the liquid in, and I did forget, but they'll still cook fine here.

Yeah, I was just going to say, does it even matter? Because I like to dry cook—

honestly, I like to dry cook things in just oil more than I do in liquid with proteins because they tend to get a better— they cook a little better. It's not like you're boiling them as much as you're actually sautéing them. I should have put the shrimp in before I hit it with the liquid. I just missed that.

Do you think there's a little bit of a difference with the flavor when you— in the difference?

Not really. It's just that the shrimp are just not cooking quite the same. The consistency and texture of them finished will just be a little bit different.

Not a lot.

We're still going to finish cooking them in the liquid some. It's not a deal breaker, but it's just again a matter of I should have known better. It's my preference of how I cook them. These are really nice Gulf shrimp, so they're going to cook well.

I had a lot of shrimp in the last week when I was traveling down on the Gulf Coast, and that is fantastic.

Gulf or Pacific Coast shrimp are the best. Generally, the Mexican shrimp or the local no US done shrimp. You just want to look for wild-caught and whenever you can, get Gulf shrimp. I have the shrimp in. I am making my sauce. What I use in this is a little bit of marinara sauce, or you could just use crushed tomatoes, or you could just cut up some cherry tomatoes and add them in if you wanted to.

Would that be bottled or canned tomato sauce?

If you were going to use— if you didn't have fresh made and were going to use a store-bought, I would just use a fresh crushed tomato. Okay. I wouldn't use a spaghetti sauce.

Are you a San Marzano fan?

Yes, absolutely. That's the only tomato I use.

Yeah, me too, me too.

Okay, now I'm going to add the pepperoni in. Now I didn't want to put that in too soon because What happens is it gets a little too greasy and cooks down a little too much. That's going to go in right towards the end. I'm going to turn this up just a little bit. I think that's about it. The only other thing it gets is it gets some sliced artichoke hearts.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

My wife loves the artichokes.

Wow.

A little bit of the juice because the juice softens the flavor up a little bit.

Nice. You know what, between the mushrooms and the artichokes and the chicken stock, I think it's a savory, just such a—

The pepperoni just gives it that little spicy kick to it.

Yep.

And all the flavors are just wonderful. So this is pretty much it. You saw how fast I cooked that. I mean, we're only 20 minutes into the show and I just started. It's done.

It's really funny because when I looked at the recipe, I said, "Oh boy, this will be a long one." Yeah, it's done.

Sauté dishes are so easy and so fast and so easily adaptable. If you don't like pepperoni, leave the pepperoni out. If you don't like bell peppers, leave the bell peppers out. Somebody said they were going to use chorizo instead of pepperoni. Wonderful. If you don't have shrimp in the house, we'll just do chicken pepperoni. You're only limited with what you can make, what you want to do. I'm just getting the shrimp out of the heat a little bit. This is pretty much done. The only other thing I have left to do— you have plenty of salt in there. I don't want to add any more pepper because of the pepperonis.

I'm going to hit it with a little salt. I have salt over here, Chef.

I don't need any more is what I should say. I'm just going to add a little grated cheese into it and it's done. I'm going to take a little pat of butter.

Oh man, go ahead, let's see how you do it. Oh yeah, there he goes, takes the butter with his fingers.

With the fingers, absolutely, and put it in.

Oh man, butter, garlic.

I only added a little bit of butter and it went in right at the end. I don't know if you can really see or not, but the sauce is thickening up beautifully. It's done.

Boom.

That's all there is to it. Chicken and shrimp pepperoni done in the time it takes you to cook the pasta. I'm going to plate it up for you.

Pasta, that makes it perfect.

Perfect. Yeah, you don't have to use pasta, but we like pasta.

Sure.

So one nice thing about this induction cooker is when you turn it off, it's done.

Oh yeah. Okay, so you're sort of putting it all on top of instead of to one side, you think?

No, on the pasta.

A little more cheese, would you put more cheese on after?

Yep.

How about any herbs, does it even need any fresh herbs?

I'm just gonna get a little fresh parsley on it.

And I think the secret too is just to cook it in as minimal a time as you can, because that keeps everything tender, don't you think?

Oh, absolutely.

But now, can you cheat? And sometimes what I do is if I'm unsure about the cooking time of, say, peppers, you know, I'll steam them, I'll put them in the microwave.

Oh no.

Oh no? Oh no. You know, like in a Pyrex sort of measuring cup with a little bit of water, just to soften them.

Did you say a microwave?

No, I didn't.

No, I didn't think so. No, no, I would never do that to them. You're going to change, you know, again, whenever you're doing something like that, just like I said with the shrimp, you're boiling them. You know, you can get away with it with some vegetables like spinach maybe, but still, you know, all that stuff you're cooking in, you're losing all that extra flavor that's going to come out as they cook. And sauté is really one of the easiest, best mediums for cooking your dinners to really get all the flavors together. By putting them in there, you know, it's really letting the flavor— and you gotta sauté them just like when you do soups. You know, you never just put a pot of water on and dump all the vegetables in it. You let them sweat down a little bit first. You put the vegetables in, you sauté them a little, you season them, and then they just— when they start to get liquid coming out of them, that's when you put the water in. Well, same philosophy in the sauté. You know, they're precooked. If I really didn't have time and wanted to precook them, I would sauté them first. I wouldn't put them in a microwave. But really, you saw how fast this was. Yeah, it's going to take you longer— no, not really, because there isn't very much— but to cut up the pepper and cut up the mushrooms almost than it's going to take you to cook everything, cut up your parsley. You know, it's something I would put a pot of water on, start it boiling, or if you wanted to have rice, you know, start the rice cooking and then start sautéing your dinner. And about the time you put the pasta in, you know, if you were done prepping everything, you could start cooking it. And if it wasn't done on time, if you still had to cook it, take your pan before you put the butter in, just move it over to the stove off the heat Soon as your pasta's done, when it's draining, then put the pan back on the stove, put your butter and the flour in to thicken up the sauce. You need a little more liquid added in at that point. And again, you're sitting down at the table 25 minutes, 30 minutes tops.

And you have so many— I know, I was really surprised. Plus all the dishes that we're doing, that you're doing, are one-dish meals. One Pan Meals, which are so good for the busy cook. There's no reason not to eat so well.

If you master the art of sauté, you can feed yourself so quickly all the time. Our first dish was Chicken Marsala, and you saw how fast that is. I use a lot of chicken because it is cost-effective. You can eat fairly well and still keep the price down. One of the things I do to overcome the boredom is then to put different ingredients in with the chicken to blend flavors.

Would you say that the art of sauté is the balance between keeping something tender and cooking it thoroughly or putting a crust on it? Is it sort of that balance? That's the art?

Yeah, the art of sauté is knowing when to turn it over and when it's done, pretty much.

Yeah, there you go.

That's it. If you learn that and how much fat to keep in the pan while you are sautéing so you don't get to braising or steaming, which with fish you can do. We wanted to build a fish dish, and I'll have to get some fish and pan— do it in the pan for you, so I poach it with everything and show you how that comes out. Anything you can do in one pan, and again, these are how I was trained in the restaurant to cook one meal at a time for everyone that came in. Sometimes if they were both ordering the same thing, there's some things you could cook two in a pan, but not everything because you had to gauge what went in them. Then when you served them, it would take more time to separate them than it would just to do them separately. It's a really great way to cook. You're getting all those flavors. You're keeping the nutrients in there if you're not precooking everything. You're blending together just a beautiful meal.

Yeah. Timing is everything.

I don't have time to cook, and I'm a chef at home, so how would I expect people that are out there working 9 to 5 or 10-hour days to come home and have the energy or the time to cook.

Yeah, you're right.

And if you treat it like an event too, you know, like if your significant other can help prep or even just sit across from you, in my case, and drink a glass of wine and talk to you while you're cooking, you know, you make it some downtime and make it fun, and then the meal's going to taste even better because, you know, you're doing something together and you're making it into more of a a special time rather than just you have to eat.

Well, that's what's happening in our kitchens in terms of kitchen design today. It's the social part that's becoming so important as we're appreciating, you know, the ability to do it all, to cook, to have someone, you know, gather around us and enjoy the time. So this is a beautiful dish. Beautiful dish. Should we take some comments?

Sure.

Let's see what we got. Let's get some comments. Okay. Well, Christopher Vogelman says, "Microwaves are hell on proteins." Boy, do I feel— I just feel like I should throw my microwave away.

No, no. Microwave has its place. It's great for heating up carbs. Coffee and for melting butter for popcorn, you know, really.

So why not, right? Why not get the biggest one you can get? You know, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, as a kitchen designer, it is the— it's funny, there's a place for everything. But it's always, I have found, the most difficult place where to put the microwave, because some of them are very, very deep front to back. So, you know, you don't want to take up counter space. And, you know, others are too small and others, sometimes people put them on the counter and then you're really taking up counter space. But you know what, the ones that are microwave and convection and that are drawers, microwave drawers came out in the marketplace about, oh, I'd say 5 to 7 years ago. And as soon as I saw it, I said, You know, why didn't people think of this 20 years ago? Right under the countertop, just pull it out, you know, easy access, doesn't take up any space. So those are quite popular.

I haven't seen those.

Oh, they are very sexy. So let's see. And there's another one from Christopher Vogelman. Haven't found any gulf shrimp. Golf shrimp. Yep, in the sand trap these days, not on the fairway either.

Sorry, that's my accent. It's confused because I spent too much time in New Jersey, so it's part Southern and part New Jersey, and I don't know what it is, but it's a mess.

Okay, well, I can relate. Trust me. Although mine is pure. I have a very pure accent, a very pure Long Island accent. So if you If you've ever heard the— oh, what's the Long Island mediator? No, not mediator. I don't know. I can't remember her. That's me, too. Delilah Taylor, monogamous temptress, says, "I've always preferred chicken thighs. They seem to be juicier." It's funny.

When Lisa and I first met, she was always eating chicken breasts. I'd roast a whole chicken, and it worked out well. 'cause I like the thighs and she would eat the breasts. And then all of a sudden, I guess she realized that I was always eating the thighs. Well, now she eats the thighs too. I said, "Didn't you used to like the breasts?" "No, I don't think so." You know, I said, "Yeah, you did. Now you're like, you saw me eating them, so now you have to have them." Right. But now all I buy is thighs, so it works out.

Yeah, no, it's funny. My son, who's in his late 20s, he is an avid cook. I mean, I'm ashamed to say that he's introduced me to chicken thighs, and he buys tons of chicken thighs. I'm kind of a late bloomer when it comes to chicken thighs, but I'm a believer.

I did an event, one of my last events I did working full-time, I did with chicken thighs, and the president of the school asked why. She thought I was downgrading or trying to save money. And I went, no, you know, they're trending right now. They're big. People are eating them out there. That's what chefs are using. That's why I'm using them.

So yeah, no, they're great. And David Leopold, our friend, says microwave above the stove, Susan Sarah. So he's asking me about how about putting the microwave above the stove. So many millions of homes do that. I am not a fan of that. Sure, sometimes if you need the counter space, you have to. It's a very common thing. I'm not a fan of it for several reasons. One, because I feel that the access, there can be a little danger. Say you have some things cooking on the stove and then you reach up to the microwave just above you and you're taking down a hot vessel. You know, I feel that there's a danger there. Another part of it is that the hood mechanism is always terrible. It's always, always terrible. And oftentimes the microwave will come out only to halfway to the end, the back two burners. So it's very ineffective. Very ineffective. The hood is very ineffective over the range. If we're talking about an over-the-range microwave. The other thing is it's usually short, so if you have a tall stock pot and you have the microwave coming down, you can't get your spoon in there in the back. For those 3 reasons, I am not a fan.

It's just like in a professional kitchen. A lot of times we used to put what they would call a salamander, a little broiler— Yes. —over the stove, over the hot stove., and you had to reach up and put things in there and take things— I mean, it was hot, and it would be broiling right at head level, and you have all that extra heat to contend with, too. I hated those. And then when you wanted to brown something or melt something, you had to put it up there, and it was really precarious to take something that hot down. You don't want to be doing it overhead.

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that. And David Leopold— and for some reason, Chef, I have heard this on other shows. Food always tastes better if you consume a glass of wine while cooking.

Yep. I know Maggie Unzueta the other day put a comment on this. She says she likes to use wine while cooking, and sometimes it goes in the food.

That's true. That's true. I mean, make it for lunch. It's 5 o'clock somewhere, right? Absolutely. Yep. So this— okay, and here's another one from Christopher Vogelman. One of my friends who's a chef in New York City mentioned that many high-end restaurants there do microwave green beans in order to have consistent texture. Now, he's talking about high-end restaurants. What do you think?

It's possible, and he's absolutely right. You know, you'll have the right texture of things being done It's just not something I do. To each their own. If it works for you, that's fine. I read a book years ago that microwaving food changes the molecular compound of the food. When I read that, I said, "Well, I don't want to use it." Too many bad things about them. There's certain things, and it could just be me, so if you're comfortable using one and you like using one, please, by all means, don't stop because of me. It's just one of my things.

Yep, well, I, you know, those are a few great comments, and I think the dish is just beautiful. Do you want to take a taste for us? Take a taste for you?

Absolutely. Let me get a fork.

I mean, you have to have a taste test. Alright. The question is, what do you take? You have the meat, chicken, fish, you have Beautiful vegetables. I mean, how many ingredients? There must be about 10 ingredients in there.

Get a piece of chicken and some pepperoni.

Hmm. I think you need some bread for the sauce too.

Absolutely. Yep. I am a pasta fiend. And I would hit it just a sprinkle more cheese too.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. Okay.

Good. Very good. Great. It looks terrific. So next I want to talk about, I want to talk a little more in depth about you being the special, the special guest. So let's kind of segue into our next segment. And everyone, this is Chef Dennis Littley. Of course, we all know that. And tell me something, you know, I am curious and it's really great to get to know you a little bit better and for everyone to— where did the chef, you know, idea or desire, where did that come from?

Well, my mother was a nurse and she worked nights so she could be home when we were home or to get us to school and from school. She would sleep during the day whenever she could. I don't know how she survived as long as she did on the kind of sleep she got. She really put herself out there for us. When I started learning that I could cook, I started going into the kitchen and making things. About the same time I started doing that, there was a guy came on TV. His name was Graham Kerr, and he was the Galloping Gourmet. I would watch his shows and just— he was having so much fun, and the people coming down from the audience to taste his food were oohing and aahing, and they were just loving life. And I thought, you know, wow, what a great way, you know, to make a living with food, making people happy. And it just segued into that. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to find my way into cooking. You know, I had some really good teachers or people in my life that taught me some very valuable lessons on cooking and how to really listen to food and how to— it will tell you, you know, what else it needs or what else it wants if you pay attention. So you learn to really get the flavors right. And it just was something that I did very well and something that I enjoyed doing. And I'd get a rhythm, and once I was going, I could cook all night long and and, you know, not even think about anything else except the food that I was making. Wow.

So you, you must have started then pretty much as a teenager?

I started in fast food as a teenager.

No, but I mean cooking from home.

Oh, home, yeah. Yeah, I started, I think I was maybe 10 or 12, in that range, when I started making food at home. Wow. I remember. Before, it was before high school. And I'd ride my bike to the corner store and pick up some things and come home and make lunch and then wake my mom up. And my dad was working all day, so, you know, if I wanted to have lunch, that was the easiest way for me to do it. And make— That's interesting.

You know, we have something in common, not you and me directly, but my husband's mom was a nurse and she worked nights. And his father worked all day, and she slept during the day as well, and he cooked too. He didn't take it to your level, but the same lifestyle. And it was tough, and she did that shift for, I think it was 12 to 7, something like that. That was her shift. You know, it's at this time near Mother's Day, Mother's Day, it's really nice to remember.

Yeah, she really did a lot for us growing up. And, you know, she was always there. So she never really enjoyed cooking until her later years. So it was, you know, it was something that I really did like doing. I had fun. I love to eat. So cooking was just natural for me. And it really is about enjoying what you do. There's people that just don't like to cook. You're never going to have fun cooking, and you're never going to enjoy what you eat if you don't like to make it. Granted, you can enjoy good food, but if you have to make it, it's not going to taste as good as if you go out and buy something and you can just relax. There's two different kinds of mentalities. Lisa can't cook anything, but she certainly loves to eat. It just depends on how you look at it.

Yeah, I think it is, you know, a lifestyle thing, how it fits into your lifestyle. And I was a young mother. I had 3 young kids under 5, and I guess I was looking for some stimulation, and I cooked up a storm for years and all kinds of things. And that was my creative outlet. It was an intellectual outlet. It really served me very well. I loved it. How about food memories? We all have food memories. Do you have any early food memories or traditional foods that your family made?

My earliest food memory was putting waffles in a toaster. I must have been 2 or 3, but not understanding the toaster had to be plugged in. And they were still probably frozen, and I ate them anyway. But that was the earliest thing I can remember ever dealing with food myself.

I love food memories. I love food memories. You know, when you think of it, you just— I mean, especially if they're positive ones. You know, there are some meals that I'll just never forget. Who knows? I think because they can touch touch you sometimes. It's not every meal, but it's an occasional meal that really can touch you. I think—

Gettin' food will take you back to a time and a place, just like music will. Music will remind you of a specific time. Well, certain foods will, too. They'll remind you— I can smell tortillas frying in the oil, and I think of my grandmother all the time with her making tacos for me or frying enchiladas up. Just cooking them a little bit. So that takes me back. So certain smells always do. Fried shrimp makes me think of my father because he was in the Army. I was born in Louisiana, and he was stationed there, and shrimp were throwaway foods in those days. Only the poor ate shrimp. And when we ate shrimp, we ate like a 5-pound box at a time. We would fry up half or three-quarters of the box and make shrimp cocktail out of the rest, and they were always big shrimp. You never bought the small shrimp.

So do you have— I know I have a few specific food memories, whether they are from eating out at a restaurant that I just can never forget about, you know, to being a child. Do you have any particular fabulous food memories that, you know—

One of the, I think, the most impressive or the earliest memory of an impressive meal, at least to me it was at the time, was the first time I ate at Mama Leone's in New York when it was Mama Leone's. Yes. And they fed me, and I could eat back then, and they kept bringing me food, and I thought I was just gonna burst. And it was like they just would keep bringing you more food. It was— I forget how many courses it was, but they would keep bringing you more of each course until you called them off. I remember going there a couple of times and then years later going back in the city to look for it, and it had changed to some restaurant. It was no longer Mama Leone's, which was— the place to go in was amazing, too. I think I remember being in a cellar part of it, or— it was just incredible.

I think it was around Times Square or something.

Yeah, I don't remember where, but I've been there. Bacon the bus or the train in. I think once I took a bus in and once I took a train in and going with friends to eat. And they had those laddie da, they had duck and they had, you know, fancier food too. And I remember having fettuccine Alfredo there and I don't remember everything else, but they would just, they just fed you like it was just amazing to me.

So you were all, by that time you were already in the food culture and you were already on the path?

Not so much. I was in that I enjoyed cooking and enjoyed eating, but that was really compared to the restaurants we had locally, you know, in the Atlantic City area, and there were some good ones, but it was just a whole different world to me at that point.

Yeah, no, I remember it well. I remember Mama Leone's very, very well. How do you, you know, this is something I'm sure a lot of us think about. You know, many of us read recipes and follow them to the letter, which is great because it's reliable, but how do you get the confidence— do you have to know about science to deviate from the recipe? And when did you, you know, really begin to experiment as a creative athlete?

I had a mentor that taught me how to really look at food differently and how to smell it and to feel it and to, like I said, listen to it. It sounds crazy, but to listen to it, to know what other flavors were going to go with it or what else it might need, what seasoning it might need, or, you know, just to get it to where you wanted it to be. A lot of it just became intuitive at that point, and because I enjoyed doing what I do, and I read an awful lot. I mean, I went through— I was opening up an Italian restaurant, and the guy wanted to go really, really strictly regional Italian, and I consumed every book in the county library system, every book I could get a hold hold of. There was no real internet at that time for me to Google anything or do anything, so I developed a menu that was so Italian it was almost too much for him and had to back it down a little bit because it was too authentic. If you start to look at some of the authentic Italian dishes and how they eat, some of it can be a little scary to us Americans. You have to really tailor it to what we're used to eating. That was the big part of it. Like I always said, knowing how to read and then having some people just refine certain things and skills in me. The guy that taught me to sauté and taught me to toss the pan, once I learned to do that, I felt comfortable with the pan. The person that taught me about flavors and taught me about textures and about combinations and about blending and how to listen to the food and how to just trust my instincts. That was the next step in it. Then it was just a matter of what I knew what should go in.

You can read all the books that you read, which is helpful, but it's really learning by doing, isn't it? Yeah.

When I read the cookbooks, I wouldn't necessarily make something the the way it was in the cookbook, but I get an idea, and then I would take it from there. Like, we're gonna have one of the shows we'll do later on was a dish I had at a Cuban restaurant, and I had imagined this dish, and in my head it was magnificent. When it was served to me, it was quite a disappointment. It wasn't that it was bad, it just wasn't what I kind of had envisioned. So we'll be making it as I envisioned, and a lot of things came to be that way. I'll order things that sound really, really good, and then when I'm getting them, "Why didn't they do it this way?" or "Why didn't they do it this way? It would have been so much better if you used this or you cooked it this way." That's how a lot of my stuff comes to be. You can't invent the wheel. You can't go out and reinvent it. People have been making dishes since the beginning of time, and there's only so many recipes out there, but what you can do is you can refine it. You can make it your own, and you can make it with foods that you enjoy. That's, that's one of the keys to good home cooking, is cooking with foods that you enjoy, that you really like, and not to be afraid to experiment with some foods that maybe you didn't think you liked.

That's, that's one of the main purposes, I think, of our show, is to give people confidence both in both in food and both in design. And this is why I asked the question too, because I can, you know, design out of the box and everything, but for food I need a little encouragement, and I'm sure a lot of, a little confidence, and I'm sure many of us do. So, you know, that's great. Have you had any big cooking disasters or bombs that you can think of?

Oh yeah, you always overcook something, you burn something, you know, just when you don't have time, you drop something, you know, when you don't have time to redo it, you know, it's just— there's always— when things can only go get worse, they do. When things are going bad, they never get better, they always get worse.

I know, and when they come in multiples, Just forget it.

The one thing that you always have to remember, and it's like anything, it's like performing a piece of music, it's like acting, it's anything. I tell people on the show, you're going to make a mistake. 99% of the people aren't going to realize it. I told a story about my Black Russian mushroom soup, about how the mushrooms are so dark, the soup got black, and I just changed the name of it, and everybody thought it was amazing because it was a dark special soup, mushroom soup, you know. And I had an instructor— I didn't go to culinary school, I was an apprentice— but I had an instructor who later became the head of the culinary. They brought some big-name guy in, Austrian, in to head the school when it first opened, and he left. And this guy that had taught me Ended up becoming the head of the culinary because he was that good. What he taught me a lot of things, too, was how to fix things. Things are always going to go wrong. Some days, you get a really good day and nothing goes wrong, but other times, things are always going to go wrong. It's just knowing how to fix it. That's all. We're talking about food. We're not talking about putting men on the moon. For the most part, no one's going to die I love it.

I love that philosophy because that's true for everything. You know, let's all lighten up and get perspective. Mr. One Last Question, and let me tell you, I could have a million other questions and I think we're going to have to continue this on another day. But tell me about your dream kitchen. What is a chef's— I always wonder what kind of a kitchen kitchen that a chef wants?

I want everything. You know, that's the problem. You know, you would make a kitchen, and it would depend upon whether it was a commercial kitchen or a kitchen at home. No, kitchen at home. A kitchen at home, I tell you, I have never had an island like this before, and I absolutely would never ever have a kitchen that was in my control without one again. I would never go back to just working on countertops. It's just— this has been the most amazing experience for me. I'm enjoying cooking again. I'm having a great time because I have space. And, you know, I've been in kitchens that were so small you couldn't turn around, and of course you still make good meals, but it takes a little of the joy out of it. And maybe at my age now too, I needed this. When you're younger, and if I was feeding 50 out of a small kitchen, I would still do it, and it would still be excellent. Yeah. It might not fill me with the joy. In here, I stand at this countertop, and I cut vegetables, and I look outside. To me, having windows and having this island are the two most essential items in my kitchen. After that, I would like a better countertop. We talked about man-made stone. I had this vision of a nice granite or marble or something, but man-made stone sounds nice. And having drawers that work— like, one of the first things I did in my last kitchen was I put those pullouts in all of the bottoms so I could pull out all the pans, and it made life easier in storing things. Those were great. Yeah, yeah.

Well, thank you so much for the insight. Site and the interview and, you know, let's— this is fun, let's continue this again.

I see Nazim Beltran is in the house. Thanks for being here, Nazim. I see a comment by him, "The art of improvisation." You know, and that's really what it is. When I was teaching my girls at school, sometimes I wouldn't have time to prep, so the lesson would be, "Let's go on a walk and see what we have." Then I would make dinner for them and show them, give them a lesson in making something. Don't be afraid to experiment that way. It's always good to keep a few key items in your refrigerator. If you run out of inspiration— last night, I didn't feel like cooking, so I was lucky enough to pick up a box of lobster tails at Restaurant Depot. I asked Lisa, "Do you want some grilled lobster?" We had grilled lobster salad and rice for dinner last night, so it was simple. Nice. You know, you split them, you oil them, you season them, and you throw them on the grill. It really didn't take much skill. But you look in the refrigerator, if you've got some leftover ham or some, you know, something leftover that you can make into a casserole or add over pasta or serve over rice, you know, think about what you have.

Yeah, that's true. You know, I want to add another minute one or two minutes on a chef's kitchen, which is, you know, the trend in kitchen design is, or I should say, many people want the feeling of a chef's kitchen, and there are some things to look out for. And one of the things would be appliances. You know, the commercial appliances are so popular. Some of them, they have to have the 48-inch range. But the question is, you know, does your lifestyle warrant it? You know, there's always a balance between storage and between appliances, and you know, you go to the appliance store and you just want everything. But the question is to really be honest with yourself. You know, do you need that beverage refrigerator? Do you need the 48-inch refrigerator? If you cook mostly fresh foods, maybe you don't need the 48-inch refrigerator, or maybe you do and you need a smaller pantry. So the lifestyle, the kitchen design should absolutely be around your lifestyle. Also popular in chef's kitchens, that chef kitchen look is— it might be wood countertops, which I happen to love wood countertops, but there are some finishes, they can often come in acrylic finish or an oil finish. If you get an acrylic finish, you know, it can— knife marks will mar it. So, but you know what, a chef's kitchen is about use. So one thing I want to say is, you know, imperfection is— can be beautiful. It's like when we go to go to the cities of Europe and we see this incredible architecture and we see all the wear surrounding it and it's warm and it's good, but you have to be able to accept it. For example, when people use marble and they have marble countertops, you know, if they're going to get crazy about, you know, the wine that spills or the etching, then you should not use marble countertops. But at the same token, the flip side of that is when the marble etches, which means that it gets a matte sort of finish. I don't know, personally I think it shows a lot of good times have been had. So you have to also know your tolerance for, you know, the durability certain products, you know, such as white cabinetry, pristine white cabinetry. Well, it's going to wear, and if you're a heavy cook, don't get white cabinetry. Be careful of marble countertops, things like that. So, you know, it should make sense. So just a few words on that.

One of the things you were talking about too, use— it adds character sometimes to your kitchen. If you go into a kitchen and it's pristine. First thing comes to my mind is, well, they don't cook very much. So, you know, it's got to have some kind of wear. And, you know, it's one thing to be clean, it's another thing for it to look unused and show like a showroom to me. I mean, I found very few kitchens that I've ever been in where it looked that good and the people actually did cook at home. A lot of people buy kitchens, you know, in the upscale homes too because it's trendy and they want wanted to look really nice, although they never— I remember being in one place and they had a broom propped against the oven to keep it closed because it had broken. They really don't use the oven that much, so I was like, oh my God, really?

That's funny. But one thing I do— I don't want to let go was that it absolutely blew me away that you said that it was about the island and about the windows. And really about your line of sight, which is what you loved, is what you would want for your dream kitchen. You didn't mention a product per se, you didn't mention appliances, but it was more about the quality of life and the feeling that you wanted to have in the kitchen. And I, I'm surprised because I thought it would be more about equipment. So, I mean, I know kitchens can be such a soulful place. And, and I was delighted to hear that that's what you enjoy about your kitchen. Oh yeah, I mean, anybody's—

I mean, I can put all kinds of appliances in here. People always comment that I cook on electric. I said, yeah, I can cook on rocks. You know, would I like to have gas? Yes, I would. Okay, but I love this induction cooker. You know, that has been like the best thing I ever found. It's not about what you cook on. It's about how you cook and how your attitude is when you cook. You can cook anywhere. Like I said, you can cook on Sterno. You can cook on rocks outside. It's about how you go about doing it and your whole attitude while you're cooking because that's what makes the food. It's what you put into it. It's not the appliance that it's cooked on. Stored on or the fine china it's served on. Granted, they all make for the experience, but you can still eat really, really good food out of a piece of Saran Wrap wrapped up around it or on a paper plate. We've all had some great street food that was served to us in less than sanitary conditions. Oh, yeah. It's still been one of the best things we've ever eaten. It's all about the love of the food and how you just think about the food.

Yeah, yeah, and the global experience that you can get with as little or as much. The beauty of it is that it changes for every meal and changes every day. This is great. Well, thank you for this interview. I think we got a lot of information out of you. And it was fun. Great dish.

It was fun. We had a great meal, and Lisa's out at the parks right now. That's why I didn't cook everything, because I'm not sure what time she'll be home. She's over there with her niece and her boyfriend, so I will eat this and I will make her dinner when she comes home, or she can have it tomorrow, one of the two.

Good. Sounds good. Okay, Chef.

Yep. Thank you so much for coming around the kitchen table, and we hope you spend some good time around around your kitchen table, and we'll see you next week.

Bye-bye.