Orlando Coffee Roasters with Chef Bob Aungst

Hey, I'm Chef Dennis Littley, and we finally made it live. I'm so sorry for the delay, but you know how I am with technology. I may know people that know technology, but me, I'm just really kind of happy to be here. So I'm here at Orlando Coffee Roasters, and I've got Chef Bob Oncton, and I'm sorry, Gus Torres. Gus Torres, and Gus is the coffee roaster and owner of the facility. So today we're here to tell you, and I'm really sorry with all the problems, I don't have the, um, comment tracker up. You can leave comments and we'll get to them later, but for now we're just going to talk about coffee, talk about the process and what we're doing. So right now, Gus, I'd like you to tell us a little bit about how did you get interested in coffee?

I got interested in coffee because, uh, well, I was born with coffee, drinking coffee from an early age. I really wanted to open up a coffee shop. That's always been my interest. But, uh, with the downfall of the economy, I took a different route. I decided to go with the roastery. A lot of coffee shops closed, and I was— I started this business instead of the coffee shop. So I'm very grateful for that. And, uh, it's a big difference between being in the roaster side and the coffee shop side, I guess.

So now, unfortunately, we can't be back here with your equipment. I mean, I don't know if you can't really see it in the background, but there's some roasters back there and a bunch of other machines in your office. Loaded down with stuff, which is really— I walked in, it was like coffee heaven. So you've got to love coffee. But when you decided to roast, now how do you decide? You guys were talking before about beans and stuff, and I'd like to continue that discussion a little bit. You, Bob, you were asking some really great questions.

Well, I was talking, you know, Gus has been a great, you know, a great partner of mine and a great mentor for me about learning about coffee. Coffee, as we've discussed, is like a lot of other things. It's It's like wine, it's like oranges, it's like a specialty crop all on its own, and everyone can be different. Just like the vineyards in France, you know, this vineyard is only, you know, 20 hectares, and this one over here is 20 hectares, they're separated by a dirt road. This vineyard is completely different than this vineyard. And it's all about what comes into the earth, comes up through the trees, and ends up in the product. And so I rely on Gus and his knowledge to help me with what I choose to be my coffee. So he takes that process and goes to his people that he talks about. So tell us a little bit.

Yeah, I got the knowledge from the beginning of the process to the end, you know, even the— like we talked about the farms, the coffee tree in itself, you know, the picking of the coffee, the beans have to be ripe, they can't be overripe, you know, when they wash the beans, you know, they could get over-fermented. So there's so much that goes into the process of this specialty coffee that we, that we are looking for now, which is the best of the best, you know. So I mean, the screening size from the size of the bean to the, to the picking of it, you know. So once that's done and it's dried and, you know, it gets shipped from the, the coffee boat that we call all the way from Indonesia to Africa to all Central and South America, some of South America, you know, then we as roasters, we want to, we want to know what's out there. So the our distributors, the people that we buy from, you know, we, you know, we get samples of all different types of coffee— Colombians, you know, Costa Ricans, Kenyans. They're always sending us samples. So what we do is, you know, we, we have a specific coffee we're looking for, a specific type, flavor, and taste for blending or for single origin. If we're looking for a great cup of coffee, so we sit there, we— what we do is we cup it. Just like wine tasting, you taste it. We cup the coffee and if everything goes as planned and it's to our liking, you know, it's a great coffee, we buy it. It's not all— we can't always get the great coffee, you know, you have to— it's so much out there. So we're always looking for good and great, you know, we're looking for the great. If it's there, we're gonna buy it, but definitely it's just so much that has to do with the process of even getting it here. You know, from sampling to roasting. So once the coffee is here, once we, we have— we found the coffee that we want to buy, then roasting has a lot to do with it because you can really take a nice, great coffee and ruin it in the roaster in the process.

I was going to say that. Yeah, I know some big company likes to over-roast their coffee all the time, and, and, and they're buying up a ton of the coffee that's available in the world, but they're like over-roasted and over-roasted. And for me, that over-roasting tends to make it more acidic. Is that what happens?

Acidic, bitter, smoky, you know, if that's what you like. You know, we tend to— when we buy, you know, you just had that Costa Rican coffee. So nice. Yeah. So if somebody came to me and said, you know, I want that Costa Rican coffee, but I want you to roast it French, dark, dark and oily, like I would look at like, why would I do that? Because now I'm going to burn all those nice qualities of that coffee. You know, it's just going to be dark. Not to say there's some great dark coffee that— coffee that do well dark, but for the most part, you want to drink that coffee where it really gives you the most flavor out of it. You know, most of those— most of that's going to be light to the medium roast.

Now, is that experimentation though to see which is the best roast for coffee?

It is. It is just like for dark coffee, we have to experiment which really does well dark. You know, because, uh, you know, some people do like the dark, uh, the caramel, the chocolate notes, those flavors. And, uh, but a lot of these coffees do well, a lot better in the medium, you know. And so we have, uh, you have people that like the, the mochaccinos, uh, lattes, you know, that are, that are loaded with milk and sugar and caramel and chocolate. That's okay to get a dark coffee for that because you want that coffee to overpower those flavors.

But you want the coffee flavor to stand out then.

Exactly. It's not a dark roast, you're not get it.

No, too weak. Exactly.

So that's why they always use espresso for— so it really depends on the— what do you like, you know? That's what we say. What do you like? Do you like a medium? Do you like a dark? Uh, we tend to cater to those who don't like the dark coffees, right? So we're looking for coffees that do very good in the medium to light roast range. And so that's what we go to, these Costa Ricans, Panamas.

I think a lot of people have been fooled by flavors someplace when we get them out.

There's—

I mean, you don't have a lot of choices when you buy coffee out. Yeah. And a lot of roasters roast dark, so that's all we get. When we get a good cup of coffee like you're doing, it's like a whole reawakening.

Yeah.

The flavors, I mean, there's subtle differences in the coffee, just like with wines. And I would guess that a good coffee bean one year might not be a good coffee bean the next year if it's like wine.

Yeah. Uh, one, you know, we learned that the You know, the climate, you know, right now everything is changing. Sometimes we get rain, we can see here we have drought, that definitely affects the growth of the coffee. We bought certain lots from, let's say Costa Rica, I use an example. We're using an estate coffee, and estate is one single coffee, you know, from this region, from this farm, but we noticed the differences throughout the years. It wasn't always the same. And, you know, and that's why I say it's like wine, you know, sometimes you have a great crop, This year you don't have a great crop and definitely the weather plays a big role in that. Weather, fertilizers, whatever they— if they make any changes, it's definitely going to affect the flavor of the coffee.

Speaking of fertilizers, how are you on that? I mean, I know organic is a big push. You look for that in the can?

We've had the organic and not organic. The organics are okay, but we have, you know, we have more people looking for just regular coffee. Uh, you know, do you have some people— you know, like I said, there's people that are looking for all types of— some people want to get—

yeah, one of the wines that— wait, one of the wines that he prepares for me is an organic.

Okay.

Um, because I have a clientele for it, so we've developed that one. That's exactly where he goes. But let's talk about the small batches. Yeah, some of these estates are 20 trees, right? Yeah, they're 20 trees. They're small. They're, they're small. And that's the difference between a mass producer drive-through with an awning versus a guy who's buying coffee from, you know, Costa Rica. That's—

I wouldn't even have thought that there would be that.

There's small farms and they— and, you know, these guys get together and they put their coffees together and take it down to get, you know, when they're that small.

Yeah.

So it's basically a blend coming to you at that point.

Yeah. A lot of the coffees that are out there, you know, you you buy Colombian in the store, the Honduras, it's going to be blend of a bunch of farmers. So, you know, the more select, you know, the more this farm from here, from Nicaragua, let's say that we buy San Jose, we buy from the specific farm for San Jose, well, it's going to cost more money because, you know, sure, and now he's taking the best out of his crop. Yeah. And then, you know, it's not a bunch of blends that, you know, it's going to be better tasting and everything.

So is that a single origin?

Single origin, single origin, uh, well, single origin could be from Panama, could be Colombian.

So it can just still be an area?

Yeah, so you— now we're talking about single estate, single farm. Yeah, so you got the single origin, which you say, hey, I want to cost, you know, I want a Costa Rican, I don't want to blend, I want a single origin. So I get you coffee from Costa Rica. They sell it like that, Costa Rica by itself. But now we got Costa Rica select farm, you know, micro lot, uh, single estate farm. And so those coffees fetch more money because now you, you want more direct, more specific, uh, you know, it's gonna be a lot better every year. It's still going to be, uh, the same versus when you get a blend, you know, a lot of things that could change in that.

So single origin isn't really what you want to look for, which a lot of people are putting now on their labels. It's like that natural label that anybody can pretty much throw on. You got to be a little more specific about what you want.

Well, you know, it goes— if you buy coffee at the store and then you move up to a single origin, that you're nice, it's great coffee, you know. And then once you go to a single origin and you go to the micro lot and we get something great Yeah, then you're like, you're ready to move away from the single origin to now select a lot, you know, select a farm.

Great example, last night Kristen and I were at dinner last night, one of our favorite restaurants. They have their own, uh, their own bottled wine. We've always gotten that bottle of wine. It's been a great journey for us drinking it. Last night we haven't been there in a couple of months and we've been drinking some really, really great wine and I'm drinking it and, and I kind of put it aside. I didn't say anything. As we're about to pour a second glass out of it, Kristen said, did they change their wine? I said, you know what, I don't, I don't know, but I know what you're talking about. And we talked to the, to the bartender, and, and, and we talked to him, and, and it came down to, I think what it was is just that we had been drinking much better wines.

You changed.

And so our palate got more adjusted to a better wine, and, and And when we drank that, when you— you don't notice it until you go backwards.

Yeah.

And so if you were to drink— I only drink our coffee, that's all I drink anymore. And so for me to get—

we—

it happened at breakfast the other day, we had another cup of coffee and we couldn't even drink it. Just— this is just awful.

So now you're a coffee snob?

We are coffee. Yeah, I've been a snob of many things for a long time, but if it's— if it's a quality product, then I'm okay with it.

I know I am a coffee snob. I don't I don't really drink much at all anymore, but when I get a cup of coffee, it better be hot and it better have some flavor.

And it better be good. Yeah. Life's too short.

No, no. And don't give me this crap about, well, it's 185 degrees and I wanted a 198, 200 degrees in there. Serve me a nice hot coffee. Yeah, hot coffee. And I think coming from restaurants, I got spoiled in that because our coffee brewers at restaurants always brew a fricking hot cup of coffee.

You can't drink it till 4 hours later.

Yeah. I mean, and it'll hold up.

Nothing will irritate me more than warm wine and and, and, and too hot coffees.

So too hot is not good, but in there in that range where you can— where it's— and I drink it black, so yeah, if it's not hot to me and I drink it black, I can't imagine what my— what Lisa was getting. She puts cream in hers.

Well, now that's a point that I didn't know either, is our flavored coffee that we do, we do a French vanilla and then we do a seasonal, um, limited edition one which is often a flavor. We last time we did a chocolate cherry cortado. And I learned this from Gus, that flavored coffees need a little bit of cream and a little bit of sugar, right? Isn't that correct?

Yeah, totally. It just brings the flavor to life because, I mean, you're already drinking flavored coffee, why not add the cream and sugar?

Go all in.

Yeah, and so, you know, so definitely I encourage those who drink flavored coffees, like, you know, add the cream and sugar. You see how that flavor comes to life. We just did a cherry— uh, was it a blueberry? I'm sorry, we did a blueberry. Yeah. And, um, one of the— you could get blueberries naturally from coffee. Ethiopian Horar has these natural blueberry notes in it. And when I was tasting this blueberry coffee with it, it's like it just reminded me of the Ethiopian, because here's a natural, here's an added flavor, you know. Uh, we had a choice, we would go with the natural Ethiopian, uh, Horar. So you can taste strawberries. Yeah. Wow. So there's coffees out there that you could get some of these flavors naturally, uh, but yeah, we can't get a chocolate cherry out of the coffee plant, you know. But definitely I encourage those who drink flavored coffee, you know, go ahead and add the cream and sugar.

Well, that, that's, that's a good thing to know because, you know, I, I stay away from flavored coffees because I drink them black and they just never quite seem right. But I have no problem getting a latte, you know, and having, or having them pump caramel into it. So I, you know, I need to start rethinking that if I'm gonna drink a flavored coffee, it's okay to put a little cream.

A little bit of cream. You don't have to go crazy, but it brings out— and when we do events that feature my coffees, whether it's a coffee cocktail or it's a coffee drink, as an aside to the event, I always do a little bit of an educational piece with my guests. And here, try it black, and now try it with just a little bit of cream and a little bit of sugar. It makes such a huge difference. And yeah, especially to a lot of coffee connoisseurs who drink it black.

No, I do tell you though, if you have a great coffee, like you came here and I told you, drink that Costa Rican. Yes, black, no sugar, no cream, because I really want you to taste the coffee, right? And that's the opposite, you know, it's like leave the cream and sugar away.

Absolutely. You know, you drink anything but a flavor.

Yes, that's the only thing that I, I Yeah, so, you know, so now we roasted the coffee, we have great coffees roasted, uh, you know, we, you know, small roasters like us, we can really give you what the customer wants. If you want a dark coffee, we're able to do that, you know, like I said. If you want a medium, if you want a blend, we're able to do that versus the larger companies, you know, they already got, you know, uh, they can't roast 1,000 pounds for you and just change up the roast, you know, they're gonna So that's where a small roaster is able to really, uh, it's not a challenge for us to make what you want. So you come to us like, listen, we're looking for this type of coffee, this espresso, we want this to taste like this, we want it to be this dark, this medium. And so we're able to do that. We'll get different coffees together. You tell me the flavor profile you're looking for, you know, we want some chocolate in there, some caramel, you know, uh, we want it a little smoky. So we're able to do that with the roasting. So then we created a blend, we created a coffee for you, and now we package it for you. Now it's up to you, the end user, the coffee shop, or at home, to grind that coffee right, to brew it right, because now you got a great coffee, you got roasted right, and now you can still mess it up.

Let's talk a little about home grinders. What do you recommend?

Uh, let me see. I, I only used a few. Okay, um, so, you know, definitely burr grinder, not a blade, right? You know, uh, it's definitely going to give you, uh— we're trying to grind the coffee, be consistent in the ground.

So the more consistent in the grind, the better cup of coffee you're going to get.

What brand? There's so many different—

yeah, I know. I spent almost as much on my grinder as I did on my coffee maker. I mean, because I knew it had to be, you know, I didn't want beans getting too hot while they're getting brown.

Yes, right, right.

Which, because then you're cooking them somewhere, right? And the burr, I knew from all the reading I did that that was the way to go.

So yeah, and every coffee is— you're gonna have to adjust the grinding, you know. Some coffees do well fine, others you have to grind it coarse. Uh, if you're doing an espresso at home, you know, you just open that bag today, just because you set it to a specific grind, tomorrow you might have to make adjustments. Yeah, depending on the heat, the, you know, how— here we have humidity, so depending how humid it is, you know, you might have to adjust your grinding to that. So there's definitely a lot of variations even within grinding, but that's the fun part of it. That's where you get to have fun and, you know, you get to experiment at home and with a grinder. And then from there you go to a brewer. You know, me, I have like 5 or 6 brewers at the house. What's my favorite out of I got this one now I'm using, it's called an Aeropress. Yeah, it's, um, so Aeropress, you put the coffee in there, it comes with a little filter, you know. I like my coffee strong, and you know, like you were talking about temperature, so I temp my water, pour it in there, you know, and I let it sit for my 4 minutes, 5 minutes, you know, and then I just push it down into the cup and it extracts so much flavor out of it. It's very, it's very simple. And, you know, yeah, it takes 4 or 5 minutes, but I have food, you know, if you really love something great, one has to take a little more time to do that.

It's just like we do in cooking. It's just like we do in culinary.

Yes.

You know, the reasons that I love working with Gus is he's no different to me than any other small farm or small partner that I have. I go to them for their quality., and then I try not to mess it up. And then you get that quality and you bring it home and you, and you prepare it the same way that you would prepare any other quality ingredient. You don't just take it and throw it in something just because it's good. You have to, you have to give it the respect that it deserves. And if you want it to be great, take time to let it be great. Do it the right way.

Yeah, I have a Technoform at home that I had gotten.

You do like that?

I like it, it's good, but I think now sometimes I'm looking at the pour-overs and some of the other methods.

That's what I was asking you, but I mean, I want to go to that experiment. You'd be surprised that, you know, um, coffees, they— you could brew 5 different methods and it's going to be— you might like it. Yeah, 5 different results.

I will tell you this, we 3 may like 3 different ones.

Yes.

Yeah, and it's against our palates and what we educate them. But I— when we first moved here, I had to fly down, uh, early to scout out and buy stuff for the house, and I didn't have a coffee maker. I wasn't going to keep running back and forth, so what did I do? I bought a cheap one at our favorite store, Walmart. And with— not Walmart's wonderful, I'm not saying anything bad about them. Oh my God, it sucked! The coffee was so bad. It was bitter, it didn't have flavor, it was— it wasn't hot. It was like the worst cup of coffee I've ever had. They have a great return policy. They do. But I didn't return it. It's sitting on the top shelf in our room.

Waiting to be a housewarming gift, not mine.

It definitely— it's, um, I say you got to spend a little money. Yeah, you know, you can't go cheap when it comes to getting great results from good coffee. You have to spend a little money.

Yeah, if you're spending money on your coffee You know, you got to spend some money on the coffee maker. You're gonna buy it most times one time to go, unless you're like me and like toys and want to buy a new one every few years just because you can.

Other than that, so, you know, the next thing we're going to talk about is, you know, the freshness of the coffee. You know, when you buy coffee from a roastery, we tell people our coffee is too fresh. You, you gotta let us— it's gotta It's a resting period. If I roasted the coffee, you tried it today, and then you try it tomorrow, the next day, you see how that coffee comes to life.

Uh, I did that when we first started working together. I did exactly that. And he told me, so this is what you're gonna do. I'm giving you this coffee, you know, you're— we roasted today, you watched us roast. So you're gonna have some tonight, have some tomorrow, have some the next day, have some the third day, and then call me and then we'll talk about it.

So what is it about a 3-day rest then?

You could 24 hours, anything up to 24 hours, you know, but you see how it changes the chemicals in the coffee itself. It gets better, you know, then there's a period that now is not so good, you know, a week later, 2 weeks later. Every time you open and expose that coffee to oxygen, it just changes the same— the coffee, especially if it's ground. If you're buying it ground already, you know, it's— it just has— it lives the life span of that is just that much less. Whole bean coffee is going to last a little longer, so it's recommended that you grind it at home, your beans. But if you can't, we'll grind it for you. But, you know, once again, uh, spend a little money, get a grinder, and you're going to see that you're going to have a better all-around experience with the coffee. Now you got the nice fresh beans, fresh roasted, not from the store. You don't, you You never know how long it's been there. By the time it gets to the warehouse, you know, it could be months. And then, you know, we really love coffee. You want to go try to buy from a local roaster, uh, and even then, you know, uh, you know, with us, one or two weeks, you know.

We've never— it's like, sort of, it's like the, it's like the corks they get you can buy for wine bottles. I never understood this. I never not finished a bottle of wine. I've never gotten coffee from Gus that ever got to the point where it was old, it's gone before it gets even close to that. So, you know, that's, that's, that's the, that's the part.

If you're gonna open the wine, drink the wine. I saw it and it had a picture of a woman holding a bottle. He goes, I hope that someday they make a bottle big enough for two people to share.

Yeah, exactly. Well, his coffee is just like that.

Yeah.

And you know what happens with wine? The oxygen just ruins it.

It does.

And same thing with coffee. It's just, it gets stale.

It's open, you might as well finish it.

Well, let me ask you about beans.

Them?

Because I remember, and it may have been wrong, but I remember reading that a bean should have a little wetness to it sometimes, or wetness.

Yeah, they probably talk about oils. The bean should be dry. No, we— that comes with the roasting. The darker you roast it, they come to a point that the oils come to the surface. So that necessarily doesn't mean the coffee is fresh.

Gotcha.

You know, that's just— fortunately for me, before, you know, we have about 30, 40 years experience with all the— you know, we get with other roasters and we talk about roasting and everything. So there's a lot of experience here and And, you know, at first you have these misconceptions. I used to look for that dark, oily coffee before, you know, I knew any better. That doesn't— that's what I thought. I was like, oh no, I want that one, that looks fresh.

Yeah.

And the other one looked old to me, you know, the dry beans like that I roast now that I love so much. So yeah, that's a misconception, you know, that comes from the roasting. Oils— darker the more we roast the coffee and darker it is, oils come to the surface. You're gonna get that next day, 2 days, you know. So that doesn't mean any— that's not gonna—

it's not gonna do anything.

No, that—

when it comes to— so I guess the fact is when I was younger and I drank dark roasted coffees more and enjoyed that flavor, now that I'm older I can't take it acidic. Yeah, I mean, I remember growing up, but one restaurant I had was, was Kona, and the first few days you drank it, it was when Kona was really Kona, I mean, 30 years ago, and, uh, my teeth would hurt because it was so rich and so dark and so heavy. And then after a couple days, everything else tastes like water, you know, the coffee you would drink. So, you know, it's just a matter, I guess, of what you get used to, what you drink, what you like.

Yeah. And that's it. Now you have so much variety that you could just change, you know. If you— it's just, uh, you drink— let's say you drink Hawaiian Kona, you could look for something, some other coffees, and see what's out there. Because we, we're able to get a hold of so many different coffees nowadays. Before you couldn't, you know. Now, can people order from you? Uh, yeah, yeah, orlandocoffeerosters.com. You know, they can order online. Everybody wants to come here and just enjoy the experience. Everybody lives in Orlando wants to come to the warehouse. Like, this is a warehouse, but they want to come here and talk coffee, you know.

You hit it pretty well, I'll give you that. Okay, you know, if you, if you make it here, it's definitely worth the trip to come and say hello.

Okay.

Yeah, you're gonna drive by it 2 or 3 times like I did.

Definitely.

But we ship, we do a priority mail, 3-day shipping. You live in California, no problem. You live in Seattle, no problem.

But if they're here in Orlando, especially in Seattle, yeah, I know, right? Let's send us some real coffee.

We'll send you some real coffee.

You would think, wouldn't you? Well, let's talk about how you guys got together and how you decided on your coffee.

Well, I, I, I was, I was introduced to Gus by, through a mutual friend in the coffee business, and he knew that I was looking to have a private line that represented my quality and my standards. Um, and I chose, I chose Gus over anyone else that I spoke with because of his quality, his reputation, and the product that he, that he provides to me. And one of the things I love about working with Gus is we have a great relationship, we have a great conversation. It's just like talking with any of my other, um, purveyors, whether it's whether it's vegetables and produce or whether it's pork, chicken, beef, you know, this is what I'm looking for. This is the quality of what I'm looking for. This is, in this case, what I would like it to taste like, what the notes would be. And this is what my— I and my clients are going to do with this coffee. We're not just going to drink it, we're going to use it in recipes. So it's going to be— it's going to have multi-use. So, um, so we talk and we get together on, okay, well, this is This is what we're looking for, for this packaging. And we have a couple of— we have 3 core lines that we use: the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe, we have a proper beginning, and we have the flavored coffee. We'll do a special limited edition, um, and use those in recipes. And so I chose Gus based on that criteria. He's, he's another one of my partners that I get great product from, offer to my clients online and, and in my events. And then using recipes as well. Cool.

Now, how did you decide what coffees to use though? How did you—

I went, I went exactly with, with what Gus recommended. We had a long, long conversation. What's your clientele? What's your demographic? What are you trying to achieve? What are you trying to, you know, what are you trying to have represent you? And he researched me and figured out who Chef Bob was, said, okay, for you, this is you. This is your coffee. This is, this is not everyday coffee. This is great coffee. And this is what, if I were you, I would want. And that's how I picked it.

And people can find your line on your website. Absolutely. Along with your gluten-free flours.

Along with my gluten-free flours.

We'll need to talk about that.

We'll talk about that in the future. Yeah, for sure. Great stuff.

Yeah, yeah. We may have to go do one of those cupcake tastings.

Oh Lord.

Yep. Yeah, but, uh, well, you know, it's all about relationships.

Yes.

And I think as a chef we understand that because all of our lives in business we've dealt with relationships.

Yeah.

Some people may be, may be new to them to know that they can come to Gus and say, hey Gus, this is what I want to do, what can you do for me?

Yeah.

Now as a small restaurant, how much coffee would I have to buy from you at one time? Like I say, I'm supplying— is there a short minimum if I wanted you to develop coffee for me?

Uh, you know, if I develop coffees for a restaurant, uh, it all depends how easy they want. You know, we, we have the— we could do a Frac Pack, which is a 2-ounce, 2.5-ounce, you know, coffee for you. Uh, we sell it by the box, you know, it's a 40-count. So minimum, you know, we do minimum runs of 5 boxes. Well, it's not much, so that's not much, you know, for a restaurant. So that's what we like to push for. And, uh, and I always say that, like you said, what do you want? Now, it's not what you like, what your customers—

what do you want, right? What do you want to represent you?

That's right. And that's where we focus. Well, okay, so what's your clientele? What are they like? Because that's what we're really trying to cater to and to please. And so that's what we look for. Because when it comes to the restaurant, I say if you start great with a great appetizer, the food is great, why not finish great?

Exactly.

With a nice great cup of coffee.

And people remember the last thing. You stop annoying me like crazy if they were They were talking about the coffee or they were talking about the dessert.

What about the entree? Yeah, about that.

Really? The appetizer?

I know that's 38, you know, hours on that sauce. You said bread in it, you don't even remember.

So it is important, I mean, to finish a meal. And then now, do you do decaf as well?

Yes, we do. We do, uh, we have a variety of decaf, Swiss water process, like Colombian decaf. We don't have a lot of decaf, uh, most of the, you know, they're going to ask for regular coffee, you know. But we do have the decaf here, but we focus more on the, on the regular coffee. But we do care about those that drink decaf.

Well, you know, again, for years to me it was brown water, and now as I get older, it's like, I want coffee, but I'm gonna be up all night. Let me have a cup of decaf.

Oh, you could do half and half.

That's true.

I recommend that too. Cut back a little bit, you know, a little wind yourself down from that.

Well, the problem is, if it's not too late, it's easier for me just to do a quick espresso. So I do Double shot of that.

That puts you to sleep, huh?

You know, it depends on where I'm at in the day, but I can go right to sleep after a double shot of espresso. Some people can't. Now, later on that night, it's a whole other story, but right away, yeah. So I mean, I, I, it depends. I have to feel how I am on what coffee I drink.

But do you have some teas too now?

Are you working?

We're working on some teas.

Yes, we are.

We got some samples coming in. We definitely, uh, Trying to be different, you know. Everybody's got a line of teas, so we're working with different companies, got samples coming in. We're really looking forward to that. So we got, uh, once they come in, we'll sample them and put them against some other teas. And we're trying to—

yeah, I think, I think we're getting drowned out a little bit. Noise on this side is fine.

We gotta compress it.

Just keep it.

No problem.

So I'll be excited, and I think we'll talk about that too for the Chef Bob one. Yeah, but to offer teas in that as well, because we have a lot of, uh, tea. It's, it's just like exactly like we talked about today, just as unique as coffee, just as unique as wine, just as unique as many of the other things that we have that we offer.

Yeah.

Yep.

Well, great. So we're going to say goodbye because it is just about time anyway. We've learned a lot about coffee, and we've—

it's been great to visit with you with us.

Thank you so much. And Chef Bob, thank you.

And we'll be—

Chef Bob will be on Around the Kitchen Table in 2 weeks, so we'll get to see him then in his new house, in his new kitchen. So I'm excited about that. So thanks a lot for coming on the road with Chef Dennis today, and we'll see you soon. Bye-bye.