Should You Hire, Partner, or Outsource? The Technical Co-Founder Dilemma for No-Code Founders

Well, welcome to a new episode of.

The no Code Wizard.

No Code Wizard. No Code Wizardry. Oh my God, you don't even know.

Well, it's a great start. I would probably normally suggest we do another take. I think I loved it. Let's just keep on powering through this one.

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Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to the no Code Wizardry podcast. Yeah.

Today's episode is titled the Technical Co Founder Dilemma. We're going to be talking about whether it's a good idea to outsource to partner or to hire a chief technical officer to help you out with, you know, building your application, building your SaaS solution. And we have some experience doing a little bit of all of these things. So we're going to talk about some of the pros and cons of doing one or the other.

Yeah, this is definitely an episode that is for founders who probably aren't completely tech savvy that maybe they don't understand all of the intricacies of building a tech solution, but they have a deep understanding of what's going on in their industry and they've got ideas that they want to convert into tools or solutions for that industry.

It could be an internal tool, it could be a leap magnet, it could.

Be a full blown SaaS solution for your specific industry. You know, it doesn't matter so much about the scale of what you want to build, but it's, I know it's daunting for a lot of people that, you know, they say, I've got ideas but I don't know how to actually do the build. And, and I don't know whether I should, you know, find a partner. Should I hire somebody? Should I outsource it to. To. To somebody that just kind of helps me get along what's the path, and that's what this episode's all about.

So let me ask you, if I am someone looking to build a full out, you know, a full blown application, should I look for someone? And let's just assume that I'm not a very technical, technical person. Like I, I understand what a website, how things could potentially be built, but I've never built anything myself. Should I hire someone to do this for me?

So here's the deal.

I've seen a lot of horror stories in my time. I've lived through them. I know. So the obvious first knee jerk reaction is I need a co founder that will handle the tech part. That really gets the tech part. I've got the industry knowledge. I need a tech co founder, and that can work. Sometimes it isn't necessarily a bad idea, but you have to be really careful who you get in bed with.

Partnerships are the trickiest thing in business. I think in my personal experience, that you can come across. It's really hard. And I'll tell you this, because I've partnered with family members, I've partnered with coaches, good friends, I've partnered with people that I thought were really trustworthy, and I've had experiences of all colors. And it doesn't mean that it won't work, but it's kind of like getting married, but it's maybe even harder because there's a lot at stake financially and there's not the same alignment of interests. Okay. When you get married to somebody, at least you supposedly love them, right? And there's. There's more alignment because you're forming a, you know, a bond for supposedly the rest of your life. And if you're lucky like I am, then it. It is. And when you're getting a business partner, there's a little bit more distance there, and people's interests change over time, and it can be really hard to navigate. So I always say be really careful about partnerships there. They can be wonderful, but they can end up being nightmares as well.

How do you prevent a very potential nasty scenario where someone gets scammed or gets. What's the proper word that I'm looking for, where someone essentially just BS as you into their tech jargon into their tech.

So the very first rule that you have to take into account as a founder, you do not have the right to abdicate your responsibility of understanding what's going on in your business. That's not optional. Even if you're not tech savvy, you need to understand what you're building. You need to understand the obligations you're taking on. You need. You need to understand.

The foreseeable consequences of the tech decisions that are happening in your company, because in the end, it's your company. And don't let anybody hide behind words that you don't understand. Hide behind technologies that seem mystical or seem too complicated. Don't be afraid to say, no, I'm not going there until I understand. Because if you don't, you will end up down the road in shackles. You will end up down the road handcuffed to technical decisions that you didn't understand, but you made. And you may have made them just by looking the Other way.

Right.

Okay. Just by saying, oh, Tony's got my back on that. He'll do what's right. Well, he'll do what he thought was right at that moment and what he thought was best for him at that moment as well.

Right.

And you're the soul. As the real sole founder of a company, it's your duty. It's your duty to know what's going on. And, you know, if it blows up down the road, pointing fingers isn't going to solve anything. Saying, you know, so and so made really bad decisions and now we're going to, you know, pay the price of not innovating for three years while we sort this out.

That's fine. You can say that till Christmas, but your customers are going to say, okay, well, we'll see you down the road. Right. And it could be the end of your company.

So how do you prevent that from happening? You just get a good understanding of how things work.

First of all, you don't shy away from making stupid questions. Okay? So just ask. Just say, no, Explain this to me in terms that I can understand and.

Keep it stupid simple.

Yeah. Make sure that, you know, and I mean, there's always going to be an element of trust.

Right.

So, you know, trustworthiness comes from being worthy of trust. Right. So, you know, be careful of who you get in bed with. Right. I mean, are they actually telling you the truth? Always keep a certain amount of skepticism.

So that you're willing to question what you're being told, because that'll give you a good idea of whether that person is trustworthy or not.

I think that that is one of the core benefits of building with Bubble is that as a founder, you can understand your application. Okay. And sure, we've had. We've had episodes on this. We've done videos on it, and we'll probably do a lot more as we. As we go forward. But it's not just about saying, hey, bubble's great. It's about really saying you should be empowered enough to be able to understand what's going on in your business. Doesn't mean you have to do it all. Doesn't have to be mean that you go in and you study every workflow or every button or every. I'm not saying that, but if something comes up, you should be able to go in and say, what's going on here? Sit down with me and show me, and let's walk through it step by step. And you can do that with traditional code as well. But it's going to be A lot harder.

So what about hiring? What happens during the process of hiring someone as a chief technical officer.

If you will. It could be someone that's just really good at what they do in terms of, like, you might hire a bubble expert, or you might hire someone that's really good with PHP or CSS or whatever. What traits should you look for when you're thinking about hiring someone?

So let's think about this. Awesome talent is expensive. It just is. I mean, and it's not going to get cheaper just because there's more AI tools out there or what have you. If you want somebody that really carries their weight, it's going to be expensive. Okay? And you shouldn't.

Cut corners in the sense that you might say, well, I think I'll hire this other guy because he's cheaper. Okay? You're going to get what you pay for. Just know that, okay?

If you want to go on a pork and hire, you know, a developer in, I don't know, in Pakistan or India or. And some of them are really awesome, some of them aren't.

Just know that they're going to come. Those lower price tags are going to come with lower capabilities of understanding.

Communication.

Communication. Understanding the intricacies of the business. Okay, they may be awesome developers, but if you're looking for a cto, you're looking for a partner, you're looking for somebody to go the journey with you. It's just as important that they understand and care about the business as you understand the tech. Because if that's not reciprocal, it's a disaster waiting to happen because you may end up with a marvelous piece of code that just doesn't do what you need it to do.

Is it hard to find an employee? Because at that point, when you're hiring a chief technical officer, you are hiring an employee that works for you. At the end of the day, is it hard to, especially with small businesses like, I'm thinking, like a bubble startup, is it hard to. To find someone that you can fully trust that they're going to care about what it is that you're building and not just build or, you know, hand over something to you that they don't. You know, it does something, but it doesn't really. Perhaps it's not been built to be a meaningful solution like the one that you were envisioning.

I think that's the difference between hiring and partnering, maybe. Yeah, or, or just, you know, going after a freelancer or having a, an actual.

Technical partner. And I think that most founders, what they need is somebody that is beside them, that understands the business, that understands the goals that what you're trying to achieve. They may not have the domain experience in your industry, but they're capable of acquiring the vision that you're able to give them and translating it into a technical solution and working with you. And it's not. You may not find that person the first time around. You may not find them the second time around. I'll give you a hint. You're listening to this episode. You're. You're listening to people that have been doing this for a long time successfully.

That's just a subtle hint. But if you're interviewing for an employee, don't just ask them about the tech part of their skills. Okay. Try to suss out if they're able to.

Think from a business point of view, if they're able to bring to the table ideas that you hadn't have. You know, when you explain the idea that you have for your application, do they, do they question you? That's a good sign. If they're asking questions that are like maybe making you uncomfortable, I would say that's a good sign because that means they're putting in some effort to really thinking through the business side of what you're trying to build before just taking your money and delivering something to you. Because, I'll be frank, sometimes we sit down with potential customers and we say, look, this isn't a good fit. Or I just don't see this being a worthwhile venture. And if it's not, we're fine. We're comfortable in saying it because I don't want to take your money, build something, give you something, and then have you badmouth us down the road because we built something that didn't make sense.

Right.

But that's just our way of doing business.

I think this leads into my third point, which is outsourcing. Where does outsourcing fit into this? Because you've, I think you've touched on really good pros and cons about hiring or partnering. When is it, or when does it make sense to just simply outsource?

My opinion is that most founders don't have the resources that it takes to bring in a full time CTO employee from the beginning. Okay. At least not with the quality that they need to make that kind of a decision worthwhile that that usually is. You either go the route of giving them stock and making them a partner and having them work for equity, or you go the route of outsourcing with, with somebody with more experience that.

Has that ability to Guide you. But isn't just a one off freelancer. That's the role that we like to play as ratio.dev. bringing on a partner is another valid option. Don't think it's going to be cheaper just because you're not paying them up front.

Right.

It mitigates some risk. Does because if the project completely fails then they've taken part of the downside with you.

But if it's successful, it could be the very most expensive thing you've ever done. Yeah.

And you know, they're probably not in it for the long term as much as you are.

So let's say that someone might be thinking about outsourcing their technical side of their business to us. For example, ratio.dev what are some good things about doing that?

First of all, we really strive to understand the business models for our customers.

Which means that we don't just build stuff for the sake of building. We try to understand why is this person that is approaching us with this idea of wanting to build this solution.

We stop and we say, how are we going to market? How are we going to build a community? How are we going to make sure that this is an actual viable initiative?

Because if it's not, it doesn't make sense for you to waste your money on paying us to do it. And we'll also have the courage to say, I think we shouldn't do this feature yet. We should put it off. We should get to market first. We should test, you know, with these other features before we, we, we add more to the bill. Because in the end, my experience is that founders love to work on the product because they feel comfortable doing that and they neglect the other parts that are just as important. The cultivating a community, marketing, marketing, making the sales, doing the hard work of actually building a business.

It's tough.

It is. It is tough. And so if you're talking to agencies or out there and they're only talking to you about.

Their bubble skills or they're only, you know, saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love your idea and they're not questioning anything that you have to say.

Red flag.

Red flag for me. Yeah, I mean, you know, it sounds to me like they're looking for a contract which is legitimate. I'm not saying that we aren't looking for contracts as well.

Everyone needs to put food on their table and, and the technical side of a business puts, be, puts foot on a lot of people's tables, which is fine. It puts foot on our table. Let's, let's face it, of course, but there is, I think you're, you're onto something when you say that there's something really valuable on bringing someone that doesn't just take care of the technical side of your business, but then actually wants to build a business. Yeah, there's a, there's a difference.

There really is. I think that that.

Sets, that sets us apart from just being an agency.

I, I think so too because I. There's also the long term consequences of building a business and not just taking care of the technical side of things, which is that we understand and we've made money as our clients have grown as our clients businesses have grown and they become more mature. We understand that that is a way for us to at the end of the day, put, put even more food on our table.

Yeah, I mean it's good for us. I mean we, we like to succeed because our customers are succeeding.

It's, it's a really good way of aligning goals.

Yeah.

But yeah, I think, I think we've broken, you especially have broken apart really well these differences between hiring, partnering or outsourcing.

And there's no one there. I think there's clear cut answer for that. You could just come on a podcast and say you should do this other than hiring us.

Right. There are scenarios where it might make sense to do one or the other.

Of course.

Yeah. And yeah, I guess it depends on your individual case and what you're going through right now.

I will say that I have worked personally with projects that have literally failed after raising hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital because of conflicts between partners.

I look, to be honest, the one thing about partnering that I, I just, it really puts me off from even contemplating doing that is, is humanity. It's like you can't, it's very, it's very, very, very hard for me to trust other humans because at the end of the day it's, it's very difficult to.

Align two different or even three or four. I mean, it gets even more difficult when you add more people into the pie. But it's so difficult to put everyone's interests.

On the same line and on the same path with us. For example, when it's family, it's different.

It's easier.

It's, it's, it's not, not always easier, but it, technically speaking, it should be easier. Sometimes both families have their shit. Yeah, of course it's, it gets tough, but.

There'S no denying that with family, you typically.

It's much easier for, for our goals to be aligned. Like you're you know, you've raised me, I'm gonna raise my, my kids eventually. I want them to do well. They're gonna want me to retire properly. It's. There's.

Sure. I mean, there. That, that's obviously one of the cool things about, you know, about what we get to do. I will say this as a founder, as the person who's taking the. Making the leap of faith to push something forward. Never relinquish control. Okay. If you bring somebody on, make sure that you do so in a way.

That they understand that you're in charge.

And that there isn't an easy path for them to take over. Take over and pull the rug out from under your feet. And I've been through that before as well. So, you know, those are important. How do you structure that? Make sure your contracts are really clear, make sure you do your due diligence. And there aren't shady stories in the past. I've run a few across a few of those in the past as well. These are things you learned with age and experience. But yeah, of the three that we talked about, I think partnering is probably the scariest of them.

And you think that most people want to go that route because it's the cheapest one at the beginning it seems like. It seems like the cheapest one, but it's the one that usually gives you the most amount of stress as well.

It is, it is.

Especially when things go well.

Yeah. And let's be honest, you don't want to have a business model built on the fact that I hope things go poorly so that I don't have a problem down the road. Right.

Let's make sure we don't do too well.

Otherwise, you know, so and so is going to take me to the cleaners. Right.

It's funny. Anyways, I think we can leave it there. There's. That's a funny one.

Yeah. By the way, get our no Code resource center on coderatio.dev it's just full of awesome resources.

Links are in the show, notes in the description box down below. You can just click on there. It's gonna take you to our website. There's gonna be a really slick looking opt in form. Just drop in your email. It's gonna give you access to our no Code Resource Center. There's books, there's podcast episodes, there's a bunch of tutorials that you can watch.

Plugins, plugins that we use to build our applications.

Great stuff. And it's free, so what's to lose? Yeah.

Yeah. Today catch you next week, mister. Appreciate your time.

Yeah, likewise.

I think next week there's going to be. We're recording a special one.

Yeah, yeah, we'll see if. If we get it done on time. Yeah.

All right. Anyways, talk to you guys soon.

Bye.