12: The 4-Step Facebook Messenger Marketing System to Fill Up your Online Course

Welcome to the Course Creators MBA podcast. I'm your host, Destiny Kopp. And in this podcast we're covering actionable tips to grow your online course business. And today I have a special guest with me, I have Kris Tan. Chris is the founder of Chris Media, where she helps coaches and online course creators fill up their webinars and online courses with Facebook messenger marketing. She has been featured on Buffer, our Social Times, the Business Hour podcast and has spoken at conferences such as Social Media Day Houston. Originally from Singapore, she now runs her messenger marketing agency online while traveling the world. Chris, welcome. I am so happy to have you here with me today.

I am super excited to be here today.

Before we get started, I do have some specific questions to chat with you about, and I'm personally interested in learning all about Facebook messenger marketing myself. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to working with your agency today on Facebook Messenger Marketing?

Sure. So, I mean, let me just condense the many years of entrepreneurship into just a couple of sentences. So as you mentioned, I run my messenger marketing agency online, Kris Media, but way before that, I used to work for Singapore's largest ad agency. So this was back, I think it was like seven years ago, eight years ago. Now I know I have a very young face. If you actually see my, my profile picture on a website, you'd be like, how is this possible? She looks so young, but actually I'm pretty old. It's just an Asian thing. Well, so I started my journey as an, you know, in the advertising agency and then I eventually left it to start my first startup. It didn't quite work out that well. And so, you know, I was kind of traveling the world and needing, you know, find a way to earn some money. So I got myself into social media marketing. So I was a social media marketer because that was what my background was all about. And that was all I knew and just kept doing it just to kind of, you know, find some clients and earn some money to keep on traveling the world. And eventually I came across this thing called messenger marketing and I was blown away because I'm a marketer. You know, I love everything new to marketing. It excites me. And when I found out about messenger marketing, it blew me away. I mean, with the results that I got and, you know, what I could do with it. And so that's kind of how I found myself from working in advertising, traveling the world, becoming a social media marketer, and now eventually running my own messenger marketing agency.

Very good. And obviously you have Delved into this, and one of the first questions I have for you, I want you to kind of break it down. A lot of the course creators listening here today, they might not have been exposed to Facebook messenger marketing. So can you tell us what is Facebook messenger marketing? So when you refer to that, what exactly is that? And also talk about what is Facebook messenger chatbot? So what are the differences there? Are they the same? Can you tell us a little bit about that there?

It's exactly the same. Okay. So, I mean, Facebook messenger marketing is basically just marketing to your target audience, to your customers, to your. To your students inside of a fake inside of Facebook Messenger. That's as simple as it is. Right. A lot of people, I don't know about you, Destiny, but when people hear about the word chat bot, did your minds get blown apart? They're like, oh, my God, what is this thing? Chat bot? But like, with, you know, the whole politics and how Russian and bots and everything, people are just right. So the moment they hear chatbot, you're like, no, I don't want to touch it. But it's as simple as messaging and marketing to your customers inside of Facebook messenger, and it's very similar to email marketing. So I like to use email marketing as an example, because everyone knows email marketing, right? So it's very similar to email marketing in the sense that you are basically growing your list, you are messaging your list, you're nurturing your list, and eventually you're selling to your list, but inside of Facebook Messenger. So don't be afraid of the word Facebook messenger chatbot, because there really isn't nothing to be afraid of. I'm not a coder. I don't know how to code. I'm a marketer. But I can build chatbots easily, and I think we're going to talk about that as well. How can we actually get started with building your first chatbot?

So, basically, as I understand it, and I use manychat myself, and I do have it, I haven't done a ton with it yet. I'm still trying to figure out what's the best way to use it, and so on and so forth. So basically, you're building a subscriber list, if you would, but you're building it inside of Messenger.

Exactly.

Okay, so tell us a little bit about why should online course creators even think about using Facebook Messenger? You know, whatever system they use, but tell us why they would benefit from it.

Exactly. Destiny, here's a question for you. Do you use email marketing right now to communicate with Your audience?

Absolutely. It's my number one tool that I use to, you know, nurture, nurture my audience and also for selling to them.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that email marketing isn't working, but Destiny, what's your open average open rate?

Right now I have over 30%. I think it's like 30%.

That's great because the industry average is only 20%. So that means that eight out of every 10 people will not even over open your emails. So you know, Destiny, you probably spend like, you know, an hour before the email goes out. You're like writing it, you're crafting it, you're making sure it looks good, it sounds great. You know, you've got a flow going on and then 7 out of 10 people don't even open it. Right? That's a total waste of time because you're putting so much effort and time into it. And the click through rate, I'm not sure what's yours, but the average is less than 4%. So that's like 4 out of every 100 people will click through. So right now you've got a course going on. You know, you, maybe you're, you know, waiting to launch your course, maybe you already have a course, you know, maybe you want to, you've got an evergreen course and you're building that list because that's what all of us do, right? As entrepreneurs, we've been told you have to build your list, but your list, like building your list is like probably the number one thing on your, on your mind right now. And the problem is you're spending so much time building that list and no one is actually reading that email. So like, if you're spending so much time building that list and no one's reading your email, you're missing out on a huge opportunity to sell more of your courses, right? So the great thing about messenger marketing is that we are seeing a huge open rate right now. And this has been the open rate for the past two years. So we're seeing around 70 to 90% open rate. That's amazing. Destiny, that means that seven to nine people out of every 10 people on your list will open your message so they will see your content, they will see what you've written about, they will build a relationship with you and, and eventually they will be nurtured to buy that course from you, right? So that's one of the things about Facebook messenger marketing that why I'm so passionate about it is because the greatest thing about messenger marketing right now is that you are marketing to your target audience exactly where they are hanging out? Because, Destiny, tell me about this. Do you actually use email marketing to message your family and friends, or do you use Facebook messenger or WhatsApp to message your family and friends?

So, family and friends. A lot of times I do use the messenger app in Facebook. Yes, that's correct.

Right. So we have really seen a research that have proven that people are moving away from emails and they're using more of, you know, messenger apps such as Facebook messenger or WhatsApp or in certain countries, line or even Instagram marketing. Right, Instagram. Direct messages. Right. So people are moving away from, you know, typing emails, checking emails, to really just spending more time on all these messenger apps. And so we want to be where people are hanging out. As marketers, as course creators, we want to be where people are hanging out. So if your customers are moving away from checking their emails, maybe they check their emails now once a day or once a week, then we want them to spend some time marketing to where they are hanging out multiple times a day. Like right before I jump on this call with you, Destiny, I was checking my Facebook messenger because my friends were sending me messages. I was talking to them. I have used Facebook messenger to communicate with businesses as well. In fact, did you know, destiny, that 55% of people who were surveyed, they have said that they would buy from a company that they were able to message on Facebook. So they prefer to message them so that they can solve whatever problems they have versus sending an email. People do want to message companies, and you want to be there to answer whatever questions they have on Facebook, on whatever platform that comes up next line, Skype, whatever. Right. You want to be there to answer whatever questions they have using a chatbot, which helps you just automate that process so much easier.

So let's talk about this a little bit. And, you know, some people might not be focused on Facebook marketing. So maybe let's just say that their majority of their audience is on Instagram. So do they still need to care about Facebook messenger marketing if they're not focused on Facebook?

Right. I get this question all the time, Destiny. It's true. I mean, if you're focused so much on Instagram, you might not think that you need to be focused on Facebook Messenger. Right. But here's the thing. Is your audience on Facebook, and the chances is they're probably on Facebook. I mean, yes, you know, a lot of people have left Facebook, you know, because they probably were protesting against whatever privacy issues and all that, but the majority of Your target audience are still on Facebook even if you are not on Facebook or if you are not focused on Facebook. Because the truth is, when I'm looking for a company, I will look for them on Facebook as well, right? Besides Googling them, I will also search for them on Facebook and I might send them a message. And if they are searching you on Facebook and they are looking through your Facebook page and you have a Facebook messenger chatbot in place, you are able to capture those people as leads. As compared to now they are just browsing through your Facebook page and they are just moving away. So those are leads you did not capture. So even if you are not focused on Facebook, Messenger, Facebook as a marketing tool for you, because of whatever focus you have right now, maybe you're focused on Instagram, maybe you're focused on running ads, but if your customers are on Facebook and they are likely on Facebook, then you want to focus on Facebook as well.

Okay, so tell us a little bit. I know that you have four steps Facebook messenger marketing system that you use and that you work with your clients with. Can you tell us how that works and how we would use that to fill up our online course or whatever? Whatever we're doing, let's just say we're doing a webinar or maybe even a five day challenge, which I have. You know, I have a five day challenge that's starting on Monday. So how would I use that?

That is so exciting. Destiny five day challenge. I am in the midst of running a five day challenge right now with my clients. So she's a course creator. She's selling a course for virtual assistants at the end of it. So she's running a five day challenge to drive people to that course. And so one of the biggest issue is basically getting people to open that email. Especially if it's a five day challenge. You know, first day you might see 40% open rate. Second day you might see 30% open rate for your emails. Third day you might see 20% open rate. And so the number keeps getting smaller and smaller. And so one of the challenge that we wanted to fix for her is with messenger chatbot is to increase that open rate for her, to increase, increase that engagement for her. So here's what we, here's what we do. So the first thing of that, the four step system is the list building. You know, just like email marketing, your Facebook messenger chatbot will not work if there's no one on your list. Right? You are just basically sending messages to nobody. So you have to build that list and this is my favorite part of the system. I love building a list using different ways. And one of my favorite ways, Destiny, is to run a quiz. So Destiny, what's your five day challenge about?

It is, it's called the six figure Course Creator five day challenge. And basically I'm going to be walking them through ways that they can fill up their online course.

That is so exciting. So you could actually create a quiz about maybe for them to kind of figure out are they doing their marketing right at the moment as course creators or if they are ready to be course creators. So those are like little quizzes that you can run inside of Facebook Messenger. So they can take that entire quiz, go through all those questions inside of Facebook messenger, and at the same time they become your subscriber. So you're growing your list at the same time and you're engaging them, so you're giving them value. So instead of saying, hey, you know, sign up for my stuff, right? You know, give me your things now you're saying, hey, I've got this interactive quiz for you. You don't even need to give me your email. It's going to go right inside of your Facebook Messenger. And, and so they engage with you at the same time. You get to know who they are. Are they new to creating courses? Are they seasoned course creators? Are they struggling with mindset issues? Are they struggling with marketing issues? So all these things as they go through the quiz, you can tag them and you can serve them content that is personalized for them down the road. And so the first step of the four stage process is to build your list. So quizzes is one of them. You can run contests as well. So give away something. You join a contest and you get something for free. You can give away a free lead gen as well. So a lot of people like to give away a free PDF, a free, you know, video series and all that. Now, I mean, that works great. I do that as well. But here's the problem with that. A lot of people sign up for those free lead gens with, you know, a secondary email address, right? So I have my personal email address that I use it for, you know, personal stuff. And I've got a secondary email address that I use to download all these marketing stuff. I don't know about you, Destiny, do you have a secondary email address that you use?

I have probably three of them, right?

Absolutely. So here's the thing. We're building our email list and what we don't realize is that half of that list, or maybe even more are Secondary emails that people don't actually check, right? They just want to download it, they have a look at it, and then they forget about it. So that's another reason why, you know, email is seeing such a low open rate, because people are using secondary email addresses. And people are also really blind to downloading, you know, lead gens and banners and clicking on the banner to enter the email address. It's just, you know, people are so blind to it. Email has been around for the past 20 years, right? So people are getting used to it. They don't see it anymore, even if it's on your homepage. Now, with messenger marketing, people don't even have to enter the emails unless you want them to, right? So that's the beauty of it. Now, another thing I like to do to build my list is to run polls. So, for example, I want to know if you are a course creator or you are a coach or if you're neither, right? Because I work with coaches and course creators, I don't want to work with other people who are neither a coach or a course creator. So I run polls, and I kind of figure out who they are as well. So these are some great ways to build your list. In the beginning, when you're first starting out and you have nobody on your list, right? And now we move on to the second stage where, you know, these people, they're on your list, and here you want to, you know, nurture them. So it's similar to email marketing, right? People get on your list, you want to nurture them with regular emails. So same thing here. You want to nurture your list so they become warm audiences so that they get, you know, even harder and harder and harder. So you want to build a relationship with them. And here's what I like to recommend my clients who are course creators, you know, build a relationship with your audience with Facebook Live. I love Facebook Lives. Do you run Facebook Lives, Destiny?

I do, and I plan on doing them every day next week, week during the challenge.

It is so awesome running Facebook Lives. I mean, even if you're afraid of the camera and all that. I love recommending Facebook Lives because you are building an authentic relationship with your audience, right? People get to know, like, and trust you way easier than reading an ebook or signing up for your email series. I mean, I get to see who you are. You know, I get to listen to who you are. I get to feel your vibe. And so it's so important for course creators to at least try going on Facebook Live. And here's something Interesting. So destiny, you have to try this when you run your Facebook Live because you already have ManyChat, right? So you want to use ManyChat's command growth tool, which is, you know, a tool that basically allows you to set up your Facebook post so that once someone comments on that post, you can automatically send a lead gen or a message to their Facebook messenger without you doing anything. Right. So during that Facebook Live you can say, hey, you know, comment below and let me know, you know, what's your thought about. Right? And I'm gonna send you my thought inside of your Facebook messenger or I'm gonna send you my free PDF guide on whatever to your Facebook Messenger. Isn't that awesome?

That is awesome. So let me take a me ask you a question on that. So let's just say I had a workbook, which I plan on having a workbook next week. So would that be a great way to send the workbook for them so they could do the activity for the day?

I would not send. If the workbook is very, it's key to that challenge, I would not send it as part of the Facebook Live. And the reason is because not everyone is going to show up for your Facebook Live. So they might miss having this workbook, you know, if they don't join your Facebook Live and comment on the Facebook Live. However, I mean, it's not a bad thing to give away, you know, it's like in case you haven't gotten the workbook, you know, in case you haven't checked your email, for example, you know, just comment below and I'll send it to you in your Facebook Messenger.

Right, that's what I was thinking about because not everybody's going to be, not everybody opens their email. Right. Or it gets lost or whatever. So.

Exactly. Yeah. And if you have, I mean, if you're deciding to do a five day challenge inside of Facebook messenger as well, you'll be surprised with the open rate as compared to, you know, whatever open rate you're getting right now with email marketing. Because my client, as of today, she's seeing an 80 over percent rate just from the opening of the messages. Right. So people are actually opening those messages on Facebook to read about, hey, today's day two, you know, here's what we're talking about. Whereas for her emails, you're seeing right now a 30%, 20% open rate. So I mean, three times the number of people are checking her emails, checking the message, basically. So let's move on to step number three, which is basically about urgency and Reminders, So people are now on your list. They get to know you, they get to know you a little bit better. You know, they get to know who you are and they're getting to see your Facebook lives and checking out your content because you're promoting, you know, if you've got a podcast, you're putting your podcast episodes in it. You know, if you've got block articles, you're promoting your blog articles in it. And they're getting to know you better, right? So how do you get them to buy that stuff? Buy your course, right? So we use urgency and reminders. So with my clients, a lot of my clients, they do run discounts for, you know, their audience inside of Facebook Messenger. So they might say, hey, Chris, you know, if you are interested in buying this course, here's a 20% off. If you, you know, just for you in this Facebook messenger subscriber, 20% off by whatever date. So you are promoting that urgency. You're giving them a reason to buy now, right? So this is especially great if you're running a challenge. You know, Destiny, if you're going to run a challenge, and at the end of the challenge, you can say, hey, you know, Chris, if you're going to buy, if you want to buy my course, right, at the end of this challenge, I've got a 10% off, you know, for you, use this coupon code whatsoever. So that is great. And then you also want to send reminders, right? So sometimes, you know, we are so busy with our lives, right? Destiny, I don't know about you, like, I've got like a million things on my mind right now, and I've got, you know, all these things to do after this call. And so we're so busy, so we might forget, like, I might be interested in buying your course, but I might, you know, forget about it, right? So you want to remind them, hey, you know, I've got this thing like, the cart is closing, the school is closing, and Roman is closing, you know, in four days, right? Or four hours. Don't forget about it if you're interested in it, right? So you want to give them the reminders that they need so that they can buy that course. Now, of course, you know, in the past, you probably send emails, right? That's what I did. So I would send emails and I'll send emails and I'll send emails. But again, the problem is people aren't opening my emails or it goes into spam or junk. And I'm like, I'm not a spammer, so that's one thing to remember. Now the last stage of the system is to re engage them. So if someone bought that course, right, you, they're probably interested in you. You can, you know, in your stuff, you can re engage them with another course or your service or you can, you know, go back to them and say, hey, did you enjoy the course? Like, you know, what did you think about it? Do you have any feedback for me? Right, so we used to ask that questions in emails, but no one ever replies. No one ever replies to emails, right? It's not a conversation. So with messenger marketing, you know, if a chatbot, people actually do reply, you know, they're like, okay, I like it, I don't like it. They give you a feedback. You can run a survey on a scale of 1 to 10, how did you find a course? And people will actually reply, right? So there's like engagement going on. Or you can, you know, send them quizzes as well. So just move them, you know, like, hey, I'm engaging you again now. If they did not buy that course, it doesn't mean that they don't like your stuff. They might not be interested in that course, but they might be interested in something else. So you want to follow up with them and reengage with them and, and introduce them to something else. So another course that you might have, another PDF that you might have, a service that you might have. Right. So that is basically the four step process that my clients basically go through to really get from, hey, I don't know who this person is. I'm going on her list now, getting to know her better and then I'm buying from her.

So I love all of that. So let's just say you sold me. I definitely want to get started. So what tools do I need to get started or how would I go about setting all of this up?

Right. So you remember Destiny when I said earlier that I am not a coder, I'm not a programmer, I don't know how to code at all.

Me neither. So.

Thank God for tools out there. That's what I'm saying. Because it is so difficult to build a chatbot if you don't know how to code in the past. But now there are awesome tools out there. My favorite tool and the tool that I use the Most is called ManyChat. Many as an a lot and chat. So ManyChat is a tool that I use. It's a tool that I know you use as well. It is so easy to get started. So what you want to do is to sign up for their free account. They have a free account. Sign up for it, connect it to your Facebook page, and then, you know, take some of the classes that they have for free and get to know it a little bit better. And so, you know, you can start building your chatbot. Now. What I recommend as well is before you build your first chatbot, go and see what, you know, other chatbots are like. So go to my Facebook page, you know, and interact with my chatbot and see what it's like. Go on to, I don't know, Destiny. Once your chatbot is ready, go and, you know, have a look at it and Destiny's chatbot as well. Have a look at chatbots before you even start building it so you know the potential that you can create. Now, manychat is one of it. I also like another one that's called Chat Phil. Right? Chat Phil is another. It's like, you know, different. There are a few companies out there that does it, so Chat feels one of them. Mobile Monkey is another one. So that is by Larry Kim of Wordstream. I think that he used to be the founder of Woodstream, so. So he created Mobile Monkey as well. So those are some tools that you can sign up and use. Now. Manychat has a free account that you can sign up for, but as you grow your account and as you want to have more features and functions, then you want to pay. I think the starting price is $10, which is really cheap, for, like, $10 a month. That's what, if I remember correctly.

So I love Minitrap. I've looked at some of the others that you mentioned. I think they're all good options here. One of the things that, you know, concerns me a little bit about Facebook messenger marketing, and, you know, some of this has come up in the. You know, I've seen it on the chatter here lately, but it's the rumor or maybe it's true, I don't know for sure yet that Facebook is stopping the broadcast feature. So can you tell us a little bit more about that and if that's anything we should be concerned about? Because from what I understand, that might affect our ability just to send out broadcast messages to everybody that's on our subscriber list, Right?

Mm. Now, before I even explain what it is, the first thing I want to say is do not panic. Right? I received so many messages from my clients panicking. They're like, screenshotting, you know, that. That announcement, it was actually a Facebook post, you know, freaking out, like, oh, my God, like, how is this gonna affect us? Like what? Like, my challenge is coming up soon. Do not panic. This is not. This is not a bad news. In fact, it's a great news, right? So for basically what Facebook is, it's actually not a real announcement by Facebook, to be honest. Someone was at Facebook, just ran a conference recently called F8. And so one of the. One of a marketer was at F8, and she was talking to one of a Facebook representative. And so he casually mentioned that Facebook is going to pull basically stop broadcasting. Broadcasting. And now you're gonna turn it into paid announcements or paid, you know, if you want to send out a message to your subscribers outside of the 24 plus one rule, which is basically the first 24 hours of someone engaging with you, plus one, outside of that, you have to pay to message them. And so a lot of marketers are like, oh, my God, now I have to pay to message my subscribers. Like, is messenger marketing dead? But it's not, right? It's a great thing. Because, Destiny, I don't know about you, but I'm on a lot of people's chatbots. Like, I'm subscribed to a lot of chatbots and sometimes a lot of marketers, whether they realize it or not, they are actually spamming people, right? So the rule of thumb is you do not want to message someone once more than once a week, right? So some people are messaging them once every single day. And it's okay if you're running a challenge. People know that they're signing up for a challenge where they know that they're going to receive a message or for five days in a row. But a lot of people, they are messaging, you know, their subscribers every single day with a sales message. Buy my course. Buy my course. Buy this course by that course. And it is annoying, and it's so annoying for subscribers, especially because messenger marketing is so new as a marketing channel. So people, firstly, they don't even realize that they're subscribed to your chatbot, right? So I don't know if this. Experience this, but, you know, a lot of people don't realize that they're subscribed to a chatbot the moment they interact with your Facebook messenger chatbot. So if you've got a chatbot set up the moment someone messages you, you know, whatever, right? They might. They have a question about a course, they message you about it. They are automatically subscribed to your. To your list, so they don't even realize you're on your list. And then they start Receiving all these sales messages from you every single day or sometimes even multiple times a day, and it's so annoying. So Facebook, you know, and there's been talk about this for a while, actually, you know that Facebook is going to eventually start charging for broadcasting, and that is totally okay. So Facebook wants to protect their customers, right? They want to protect their audience. They don't want to spam their audience. So what they've done and what they've been talking about is moving forward, they're gonna stop free broadcasting. So you have to pay to play. And we kind of knew that that was gonna come, you know, eventually, right? It was gonna come eventually. Facebook would charge just kind of like how they've gone down the Facebook page route, right? So now, right now, if you post on your Facebook page, the chances of people actually seeing that post is 0 to 1%, right? So, you know, people have kind of moved away from Facebook pages for that very reason. Now it's a good thing, because what this is doing is basically, it is. It is weeding out those spammers and marketers who don't know what they're doing. So now that, you know, if you have to pay to send out a message, people are going to be like, a little bit more conscientious about what they send out one day. So they want to be spamming that much. So that's a great thing. And the real messenger marketers who know what they're doing, the entrepreneurs who know what they're doing, the course creators who know what they're doing with messenger marketing will know that. Okay? So there are multiple ways to go around this if and when Facebook decides to get rid of the free broadcasting, and one of it is to use automated sequences. So like I said earlier, the 24:1 rule is so important, and it will still exist. So you want to make sure that within that first 24 hours that you're engaging with your subscribers. So you have an automated sequence set up, just like email sequence, right? So right now, if we've got emails, you probably have an automated email sequence set up. So you want to have an automated sequence set up for your chatbot as well, and you want to engage them, and you want to make sure that you're not salesy in that first message, right? So there are ways to go around it, like destiny. Don't worry about it, people. Don't worry about it. If and when Facebook decides to remove free broadcasting, it is for the better. Okay? So fine, you know, you might have to pay just a little bit. So Right now, I think they were talking about it's $24 per 1000 CPM. So that is not a lot. I mean, it's. It's okay. And you don't have to run it every single week. You know, right now, I don't even send out messages to my subscribers every single week. I probably sent out, like, once every two or three weeks. So, I mean, it really doesn't affect me at all. And it shouldn't affect your business as well, so don't worry about it, Destiny.

Okay, well, you mentioned the 24 +1, so can you tell us a little bit for those that might not be familiar with what that term is, can you tell us a little bit about that rule and any other rules that we need to follow when we're using the Facebook messenger chatbot?

Sure. So the 24 plus one rule is basically Facebook's way of ensuring that we do not spam our subscribers. Of course, right now, a lot of marketers, they might not be aware of 24 plus one rule. So they might have heard of, you know, Facebook messenger marketing. I'm gonna. So they get excited about it. They go sign up for ManyChat, and then they start messaging their audience. And marketers screw everything up, right? We come in and we screw everything up. So they start, you know, spamming their subscribers. Now, the 24/1 rule is basically Facebook's way of saying. Facebook's rule that you cannot send a promotional message outside of the first 24 hours of someone engaging with your chatbot. Not subscribing engaging. So it's basically Facebook's way of saying, like, don't spam my people all the time. Right? You know, stop with your sales messages all the time. Build a relationship with them. So engage with them. Ask them questions. So what I like to do, Destiny, is I like to ask a very innocent question before it. So, for example, if I've got a course coming up for social media marketing, for example, I've got a course about Instagram marketing, I might send a message that says, hey, Chris, like, how well do you know your Instagram marketing? Then they replied, like, you know, from the scale 1 to 10. What? Like, how well do you know it? Now, that's not promotional, right? You're asking them a question. You're asking them to engage with you. So it's a back and forth, right? And in my next message, I might say, well, it looks like, you know, you might be interested in this. In this course that I have about Instagram marketing. So this is what it is about instead of me going straight to them and saying, chris, I've got this course, it's about Instagram marketing. Sign up for it now. And that's in the first message. That is a big no, no outside of the first 24 hours of someone engaging with you. So remember that. So if you want to send a sales message, just kind of, you know, sugarcoat it and, you know, make it your second message instead in the first message, ask, you know, a different question, a more generic question that ties in to whatever that you want to sell. Does it make sense?

Yeah, that does. So let me just ask a clarifying question here. So I'm thinking about it from, you know, all of the course creators here. Could we ask, could we, like, talk about an upcoming Facebook Live that we're doing and ask them if they want to be notified? Is that acceptable or what. What really is acceptable there?

That is. You know, here's the thing with Facebook, as, with, as of everything, Facebook is very gray about a lot of things. With Facebook lives, it's okay with. If you're pointing them out to a third party website, I would generally not recommend that I would say, you know, in my second message. So if you've got a Facebook Live coming up, you can mention it and. But you want to ask them to. For example, here's an example for you. So, hey, Destiny, I've got a new I've got a Facebook Live coming up this Wednesday about Instagram marketing. Would you like to be notified about that upcoming Facebook Live, yes or no? I mean, there's a button that says, yes, I would like to be notified or no, I'm not interested. Right. So if they click yes in my next message, I'm like, awesome, Destiny, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you know, I'm gonna keep. I'm gonna send you a message, you know, before we start the Facebook life. Or if they say no, I'm like, that's cool, that's okay. You know, stay tuned for my next message you get. I mean, so it's kind of like a. It's like a conversation going there. You want to ask them a question, they answer. You know, so you kind of figure out, you know, if they're interested or not. Instead of going right in for the kill and saying, hey, Destiny, I've got a Facebook Live going on, like, I'm gonna send you a message about it. Okay? I've not even said I'm interested in it. You know what I mean? So there are ways to go about it that makes it sound more conversational and instead of going in straight for the sale.

Perfect. Excellent advice. So, Chris, anything else? Any last minute tips that you want to share with the audience here?

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that course creators struggle with is engagement during the course. So someone signs up for your course and, you know, as with everyone else, they buy a course, they get excited about it, they take the first module, and then they kind of drift away. I've bought many courses in my life, and I always drift away after a few months or even weeks. And one of the things. Because it's not engaging enough. Right. I mean, sure, there workbooks, there are, you know, videos you can watch, but it takes a lot to engage someone these days, you know, with so many things happening right now. And so you can actually consider using a Facebook messenger chatbot to engage your subscriber, engage your students as they go through that course. So whether that's, you know, giving them a quiz that they can, you know, go through inside of a chatbot, or asking them questions, sending them additional materials inside of the chatbot, or reminding them to go and check out their course after they sign up. So there are many things you can do to engage your students once they sign up for the course, because that is always great for retention and you want them to actually complete that course. Right. As a course creator, nothing makes you prouder to know that someone has gone through that course, implemented the strategies, and actually succeeded. Right. So this is one of the strategies that I like to use with my clients.

Chris, I love that tip, and I haven't even thought about that. So that is. That is absolutely solid gold.

I'm so glad to hear. I mean, I love course creators. I mean, I used to create courses, and so I know exactly what, you know, the struggles and pains of running a course and selling courses. And so I'm so glad that you found it useful.

So, Chris, can you tell people where they can find you?

Sure. So I've got a little something special for you guys. So go on to chrismedia.com that's C H R Y S media.com thecoursecreators and you will, you know, basically get a chance to experience my chatbot, you know, specifically just for you guys. So. Chrismuir.com TheCourseCreators Chris, I'm gonna go sign.

Up for that now. Now I really want to know how you're doing this. Oh, thanks so much for joining us today, Chris. I know that this was extremely beneficial to everybody in the audience that are listening to this. If you have not done so already. I'd love for you to rate the podcast and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks so much for joining us today and bye for now.

Yay. Thank you so much, Destiny.