135: How to Find, Vet, and Hire the RIGHT Sales Page Copywriter

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Welcome to the Course Creators MBA podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Destiny Kopp, and I help business owners increase the revenue with digital products and evergreen sales funnels. In this podcast, we go deep into product and marketing strategies for digital product creators. We cover everything from digital product creation, how to market and sell your digital products, and just as important, how to find your ideal customer. Let's jump right into our show.

And my special guest today is Danny Page. Danny is a launch copywriter and strategist, and she helps course creators write on boring launch copy so that they can convert more students and create more impact with their online course programs. And Danny, I am super excited to jump into this topic with you today. We have a lot of good questions that we're going to cover and we're going to be talking about how to find, vet, and hire the right sales page copywriter. So, Danny, why don't we jump right in and can you tell the good audience just a little bit about you and how you got started and how you help people in a little bit more detail?

For sure. Hey, Destiny, how are you? So, thanks for having me. My name's Dani. As you said, I'm a launch copywriter. I feel like I kind of just stumbled into this online world. I found the word, kept seeing the word copywriting in these online entrepreneur groups and just kind of went all in on it. I knew I had a bit of a back background in writing, but didn't realize I could really make a full career out of it. So gave myself six months to quit my job and just really ran with it. And it's been one of the best decisions I could have made for myself and my career.

So you kind of just jumped right in. I mean, six months wasn't. That wasn't that long.

No, it's not. Yeah, it's not really something I maybe would like a hundred percent recommend to people. I just, I didn't have like a mortgage at the time. I didn't have kids, so I felt like it was a really good time for me to take a risk like this. And yeah, it ended up, I mean, it worked well, for sure. There's highs and lows, a ton of learning, but overall, yeah, just so happy with kind of going out on my own.

So we have online course creators, people who have memberships, people who have digital products that are just that listen to this podcast and for them, you know, having a dedicated sales page for that course, for that membership is very important to them. But it can be difficult, right, too, because we're not copywriters. I'm certainly not a copywriter. I've never claimed to be a copywriter. I always outsource this myself. Can you talk about why is hiring out your sales page so important?

For sure. So. Well, I'll start with the sales page itself, like how important that one document is. It's really where our buying decisions are made. Right. Someone lands there, it's either going to be a yes, they're purchasing our course, or no, they're not. Right. And we spend so much time and money and effort driving people to these sales pages, and so much time too, on, like, creating the program that we're selling, that it's important that when the right person does land on our page, that we want to have the best chance at converting them. And every offer, like every course we have also needs a sales page to communicate all of this stuff to our readers. So. So that one single page really carries a ton of weight for our business. And when you hire it out to a professional, like someone who is trained in conversion copy, then you can put your time too into like, your time and focus elsewhere. We, we all know how many moving parts there is to a launch. So not just the roi, like the return on investment, which of course is a huge part of it, but for like, the sanity and the support that comes with taking this off your plate during a launch. It's pretty big as well.

So let's talk about. Somebody has this online course, this membership, maybe they just created it. Should they try to do the sales page themselves first and then get a few cells under the belts, or should they begin immediately by hiring a conversion copywriter? Basically, how do they know when they're ready?

Yeah, I think it's a great question because I actually don't say everyone should hire a copywriter right out of the gate. I do think that you want to be sure about your course and actually have some sales under your belt. Like a copywriter can amplify your message, but we definitely want to give them a foundation to work with. So if it's a new program, just having some proof of concept first, so maybe you've beta tested it, or maybe you have even previous clients who you've helped give this transformation to. And once you have that, then you can feel good and confident to hire it out, to really start scaling that program.

And that doesn't require a lot. Right. You're just talking about a group of beta customers that might be 10 customers that you have or did.

Yeah. And like, with that beta group too, I've Even. And I mean I'm a sales page copywriter, but I've just used a Google Doc for when I'm beta testing just to get it out there and get the, you know, a handful of people in just to prove that it works. And then once I have those transformations and those testimonials, then I'm ready to move it to an actual sales page.

I love that. I love just using a Google Doc, get a proof of concept, do a beta test with 10 or so customers and then you'll have what you need to, you know, go, go outsource it. So let's say somebody is ready, they have all of that. What are some tips that you have when they begin their search for a copywriter?

Great. So first and foremost on their end I always suggest give yourself time. And it sounds simple but it's, it's not one of those things that we just want to whip up a sales page overnight. There's a lot of research that goes into it and prep work for the copywriter itself. So definitely giving both of you time for this. And I will also say too, you want to start with the sales page creation as compared to other launch assets. And I often see people doing this backwards. But I teach really starting with that sales page because that's when you can start. You can pull from the sales page for all of your other content. I call it, I call sales pages the domino asset because once you have that page you can pull from it for your emails like the top of your sales page where we talk about the problem, pull for that for pre launching mills or when you're talking about the guarantee or the FAQs, pull that for standalone sales emails. Same with social posts. I use my sales page to create all of my social content. I even use it for my webinar. The top part where I talk about the problem is all my webinar content. Same with like Facebook Live topics. So all of this it reinforces to give yourself ample time with the sales page because that one piece will really propel all of your other launch content forward. So that's the first tip there. Second one here is to I suggest to find someone who is already vetted and certified. And I say this tip because the length and time in the industry matters less here it's more about what your, what these copywriters have been exposed to or what experience they have or what marketing knowledge they have. And that can all be answered by having the right certification and vetting system done for you because it really takes the guesswork out of the equation on that candidate. It's something that I implemented with my program, sales page, prep school. And there's a test at the end now. And I review their sales pages that they've written, among other things. And this really establishes immediate trust in people that hire them now, because I've already done the heavy lifting on that candidate for them. So you want to try to look for that when you're hiring too. Like, what programs have they been through? And was there a test or certification at the end to help give you that confidence in them? So that's a second tip here, and then our last one here is about giving a little bit about the due diligence on your candidate. And there's two things that I want you to check for to make sure this copywriter is doing, and that's one is interviewing your previous members. I think this is a really important step. I never want to overlook it. Make sure that copywriter is jumping on research calls with members and then as well as make sure they're asking for access to your course. Because, you know, we want to make sure that they're writing unique standalone copy and your offer is extremely unique. So we want to make sure they're actually jumping into your program and digging into things so they can write that best sales page for you.

Well, you gave us a lot there. And I had the first of all talking about the. The time and that tip with starting with the sales page and then using that to create your email copy or your social media, I think that's a really good tip. And also getting somebody who's been vetted and certified. So, you know, and there's different programs out there. I know that you have one we're going to talk about in just a second. But that is so important. That normal course creator out there, somebody who has a membership, they don't have to worry about that because they know that somebody else has done all that vetting for them and then talking about making sure that that person will do their due diligence. And I just want to expand on this just a little bit. So, Danny, would you suggest that when they are kind of vetting these people and talking to them about their project, they'll ask them what are their steps that they will go through to actually write their sales page copy?

Exactly. I like to ask or suggest asking, like, tell me about your process or how is our project going to look? And then your copywriter can explain. Like, every copywriter should have their own writing process, you know, and maybe they'll explain well, I'm going to jump on research calls. You're going to have to give me, you know, you can give me previous members that I can connect with so you can kind of ask questions that will open up their writing process so you can really see how that project will unfold together.

And I really liked your suggestion of making sure that they talk to previous members because then they can kind of, you know, write that sales page based on the objections or the questions that they have. So that's a really, really good tip. I know that you have a unique service that helps course creators, people who have membership digital products that they're selling, find the perfect sales page copywriter. Can you tell us a little bit about it and why you have set up this service?

Yeah, I'd love to. Thank you so. Well, for course creators, I know how difficult it can be to hire like trustworthy launch copywriters and then not just finding the right one, but then finding one who's available and affordable too. It can sometimes feel like a bit of a like unicorn hire. So meanwhile, as mentioned, I have a signature program, sales page prep school where I teach my pre, my proprietary method to writing these high converting personality packed sales pages. And what's interesting about these writers that like once they are certified the talent that comes out of this program, they fit into something that I call the magic window. Which is it's a perfect mix of when a copywriter has the experience and the knowledge but hasn't yet had that huge price jump yet so they're still affordable and you know, they're not in this window for long but every copywriter does go through it. And so because of it I have a bit of a matchmaking service called find your copywriter. It's at salespageprepschool.com find your copywriter and the service itself is totally free. You can submit your project info and find our most qualified writers. They'll reach out to you and you're free to connect and work with anyone you'd like. And all of these copywriters are really in that magic window. They're, you know, I vetted them, I've certified them, they're just coming out of it. So they are still available and very well priced. So I really love how these, I can kind of bring these two worlds together. Of course, creators and copywriters. I've been in like both spaces myself so it's kind of my way just to bring these two services together to help you find really stellar copywriters to help impact your, your next launch and.

We'Ll make sure that that link for your free service is in the show notes so everybody can go there, learn more about it and really kind of connect with one of these people who are in that magic window that you're talking about. So let's go into a little bit more detail. Let's say that somebody is ready, they're going to go to your free service that they have and they have a few people that they're interested in. Can you tell us what questions they need to be asking just to make sure that they're hiring the right person.

The right copywriter for sure. So I would definitely dig into that process question as mentioned, just really understanding how exactly how this project is going to unfold together. So digging into their processes and then asking too like do you feel comfortable with my niche? And I ask it that way because they don't necessarily need to be the expert expert in your niche or niche however you say it because that's what having a good process will help them do. But you definitely want them to have like general knowledge and as well as just an interest in your industry as well. So that's a good thing to ask. And then also definitely ask about their timelines, you know, will like when will the project start? When can I expect the to receive the written page? So just clarity around the timeline too altogether.

And let's ask, let me ask you a question about the timelines. Let's assume that somebody is launching June 1st. When do you suggest that they need to get that sales page finished and how long would it take somebody to do it? Because you mentioned earlier that we should be using that finished sale page to do and create a lot of our other launch copies. So tell us a little bit about the timeline.

Exactly. Yeah, it's such a good question. And like how I suggest or how I do my sales pages too. I have it written and then as mentioned, I pull from it for all my pre launch content. So I actually have my sales page written months in advance because you know, my pre launch typically starts two, three months out. So if you're looking at that way, definitely several months before. But copywriters itself, everyone has different timelines too. Some might be doing VIP days, some might be taking several weeks, you know, up to four weeks to write a page. And neither is right or wrong. It's just the process of how that copywriter works. So I would, I need to give you a definitive answer. I would definitely like at least give yourself a month, if not even more because the more time you Give yourself, the more you can leverage that sales page for your other content.

And that's some really, really great advice there. Danny, before we wrap it up here, do you have any thoughts, final tips or advice for the audience?

Yeah, so I think it's, I think it's worth mentioning with all the hype going on right now with AI and, you know, artificial intelligence, which, for the record, I absolutely love. Like, I use it to help with my titles and my content marketing quite a bit, actually. But for sales pages and conversion copy, I really just want to emphasize, like, the importance of writing with empathy and the voice of your customer and optimizing copy based on research and weaving in personal stories and personality traits. And like all of this stuff, which can't be done, unfortunately, with AI. So there's just a level of human skill that's still needed here to make sure you're getting the best shot at true conversion copy. So really just wanted to educate on that too. As much as I love AI, it's not producing, like true unique conversion copy for us. So still worth hiring humans for writing our sales pages.

And I think that is such valuable advice that while we could do a lot with like chat GPT, there are some things that we, you know, it just, it's just not going to cut it. And I think I agree with you 110%. You have to have a conversion copywriter for your sales page. Danny, can you let the folks know where they can find you? And then, you know, we will definitely include the link for your free copywriting matchmaking service too, in the show notes.

Perfect. Wonderful. So I can be found@danny page.com or Instagram. I'm@online.danny page and yeah, I'd love to connect and help everyone where I can finding, you know, the perfect copywriter or any other advice with coffee that I can help you with.

Thanks so much, Danny.

Thanks, Destiny.

Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you love the show, we'd appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform and show us some love there. Have a great rest of your day and bye for now.