97: Angela Ficken: Teaching Strategies to Manage Stress, Reduce Anxiety, and Set Boundaries

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Welcome to the Course Creators MBA podcast. I'm your host Dr. Destiny Kopp and I help business owners increase the revenue with digital products and automated sales funnels. In this podcast we tell the stories of ordinary business owners just like you. We talk about their story and how they got started, the challenges they've experienced and how they overcame them. And these are discussions with real people who understand what it's like to own an online course or membership business. Before we begin our show today, I want to let you know that this episode is sponsored by our flagship Course in a Box program which helps you create your revenue generating course in less than a week. Course in a Box is available on AppSumo at a special deal and you can learn more about Course in a Box by visiting the link in the show Notes. Let's jump right into our show.

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Today my special guest is Angela Ficken. Angela is a full time psychotherapist in private practice. She specializes in ocd, eating disorders and anxiety related concerns through her writing and hearing from her clients how difficult it was finding an understanding therapist, one who could actually teach coping strategies to manage difficult emotions. She then decided to create Break In Every Day Into Slivers Worry to Wellness Balance course to reach more people other than those she can meet within her office. The course is designed to help those who have significant stress in their lives and struggle to find ways of coping and managing their emotions. Angela, thank you so much for joining me. I'm super excited to dive into this with you. I love what you do and how you're helping people and just look forward to our conversation here.

Well, thank you Destiny for having me. I'm very excited about today.

So why don't you take a few minutes and tell the audience a little bit more about your entrepreneur journey and how you got into what you're doing today.

Yeah, sure. So, you know, it's interesting. Maybe a lot of entrepreneurs can relate that it was never in my kind of thought that I would become an entrepreneur. I started off as a social worker at McLean Hospital, which is one of the country's leading psychiatric hospitals, and worked as a primary social worker on an inpatient unit for anxiety and depression. That's really where I got my first start. And it was there that I learned from some of the best clinicians, psychiatrists, other social workers in the field really working with depression and anxiety. And I learned that there are several gold standard behavioral therapies that can help treat anxiety and depression. That's Cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT and Dialectical behavioral therapy, DBT And I won't get into the weeds with those. But I started to learn at my career then as a young social worker that there are strategies out there that can be really helpful in treating people who are really struggling. And in the hospital, people don't stay that long, it's usually a week. So they're coming in very high stress and they're leaving better, but, you know, not 100%. And I found that those two therapies that I was, that I was learning about in the hospital can really be helpful in teaching people strategies to feel better, to feel like they have more control over how they think and feel. So as my training at McLean went on, the six years that I spent there, and eventually became the senior social worker there, I got trained and certified in both of those things, therapy modalities. So when I was seeing patients in the hospital, I was actually able to teach them strategies on the fly so that they, when they left, they had a bit more cushion. And from that I started a small private practice on the side and really started to fine tune my skillset and really working with people with more high octane anxiety disorders like obsessive compulsive disorder and eating disorders. After my time at McLean, I went to Harvard University. I was a primary therapist there for undergrad and graduate students. It was there that I actually got to follow people for an extended period of time. Freshmen coming in or graduate students and seeing them for years, but witnessing what it's like to be in a pressure cooker environment and not really having the skill, skill set to manage all the vulnerable emotions coming in. And the strategies I was trained in, both in cognitive therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy, those skill sets were incredibly helpful for them and being able to witness their journey was lovely to see. And then still having that private practice on the side, I realized I was kind of burning the candle at both ends. In practice by day, at Harvard, in private practice, at night, on my own. And I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I started to feel a little burned out, a little crispy as I like to say. So I just jumped in full steam ahead into private practice. And that's where I thought my journey would end. Honestly that, you know, I made it full time private practice, hang up my shingle, call it a day. And it didn't end there. It's just when the journey began, when I started seeing people in my practice who weren't just in college, but entrepreneurs, people in Boston in the kind of the startup world, people moving into their new careers and feeling Incredibly anxious and stressed out. And the strategies I had, they were practicing and feeling better and being able to kind of do the work that they wanted to do and have the connections with people that they wanted to connect with. And what they were saying to me is that, Angela, thank you so much. This has been helpful, which is great, but that it took a long time for them to find me. And Boston's not that big of a city. You can pretty much walk most of it in a day. And I thought, okay, if they're having a hard time finding me and what I'm teaching is helpful, how do I reach more people? And that's when the kind of brainstorming started. And I guess my, I started to dip my toe into the entrepreneur world. But that's kind of where the journey started for me.

So let me ask you this. You mentioned that you were, you had your private practice on the side at that one point. What year was that? Do you remember when you first started that?

Oh, you. Yes.

And I'm putting you on the spot, right?

No, I'm going to guess 2007 or 8. 2008, let's call it 2008 to be safe.

And at what point did you start working at Harvard and working with the students there?

2011. And then I left around 2013, and that's when I started my full time private practice and just kind of jumped in to see what, what would happen. So from 2013 to now, it's been kind of the full swing journey.

And then you mentioned that you, you know, started getting feedback from folks, you know, they were telling you it took me a long time to find you or, you know, they and you. I think that's, you know, the case for a lot of people out there. You know, there's a lot of people like you who have these special talents that people we just don't know that you exist. I wouldn't have known something like this existed. And I, you know, and I live in Atlanta and I'm sure there's people that you know with your type of background here and you started thinking about how do I reach more people, how do I let more people know that I'm out here? At what point was that? And then where did you take your journey from there?

So I, after hearing probably from like a handful of people that in a short, it was probably within the first year, so 20, 20, 13, 2014 year, kind of spring span where I had heard enough, like frequently enough, maybe five or six people were saying it took me months to find you. It Took me a year. Or there's wait lists everywhere at different hospitals, have different clinics. And it can take, you know, you're going to be on the waitlist for six months to a year. I started to think, how do I. How do I share what I have? And so I just started doing some research on how to do that and I started Googling, like, how do I get a business coach? How do I. Because I didn't know how to branch out or even like what my options were. And I wanted a business coach who kind of would be able to specialize or understand my world, my field. Is there another kind of social worker or psychologist or psychiatrist out there turned business coach who can kind of help me figure it out. And there was, and her name is Gail. And she was incredibly helpful in just helping me brainstorm different options because without asking for help, I wouldn't have known how to do it. I am not tech savvy, wouldn't know how to build a website, wouldn't know really how to do that or how to get my message out there. And she had recommended, why don't you start writing a blog and just putting out your message that way and see what happens and just getting, creating some content. I thought, okay, I will, I will give that a try. And so that's what I've been doing pretty much every month, minus maybe I was gone for almost, almost a full year. When I had my daughter three years ago, it got a little bananas there for me. So I took a break from writing. But that was really where I started, was writing blogs and trying to get out the message that way and building a following of subscribers who were interested in kind of my monthly takeaways, whether it was something that I was hearing in my practice. And I thought, you know what, I want to talk about negative thoughts this month. And here's a strategy on how to manage negative thinking. Or if you're feeling stressed in relationships and not sure how to set a boundary or what a personal boundary even is, this is what a personal boundary is. And if you're struggling with saying no or feeling burned out, like, here's some strategies that you can use to try to set that boundary and not feel guilty or feel bad for saying no. So each month I really, and I still write my monthly newsletter, really do try to take a theme and offer strategies. So that's kind of really where it started. I got help immediately and then from with Gail. After I stopped working with her, she referred me to Kristen Marquette of Marquette Media. And she has been with Me ever since for like four years. And she's my PR manager, but she also is my everything. She's like the behind the scenes. I consider her like my business partner. I would be lost without her. So I think just having that help was tremendous for someone like me, who I literally had no clue how to do anything. And I could brainstorm ideas, but had no idea how to create it or where to put it. And that's where help was essential for me.

Okay, so you started out writing the blog, and I'm assuming at that same time you were also. You also had some type of lead magnet or you're inviting people to your email list where you had your, I believe you said, your monthly newsletter that you sent out.

Yes.

With the themes in it. At what point did you decide or did you start thinking about I need an online course and what were the steps that you took to actually create it and launch it?

So with talking with Kristin, we were going back and forth. My private practice was pretty steady and full and talking about what might be the next step for the brand and how to build from all the kind of content and ideas and strategies I have, and working with wanting to get that message out there that these skills, you don't have to stay stressed out. You can actually learn to manage it. Anxiety, we can't get rid of it, but we can learn to manage it. And if, when you have the right set of tools in your toolbox, you will feel better ongoing. It's not like you can't unlearn what you already know. So once you have the tools, you will always have them. And I wanted people to be able to get that without having to necessarily meet with me, knowing that my practice was full. But then also thinking outside. I think that was kind of the first time we started thinking outside of Boston, because with my newsletter, I thought, you know, I had all my clients follow me or subscribe. And then outside of that, there was doing a lot of work with Pinterest and creating pins that go directly to my website where you could kind of sign up for the monthly newsletter. And in talking with Kristen, we were kind of figuring out, like, how do we kind of take all of what I know and do something with it? And that's when we started thinking, what about creating a course, something that is for everyone? And that's how I created this course. And what's in it is essentially I consider it like my mini dissertation in stress management. It took about four or five months to write. I was pregnant at the time, and it was My kind of my journey, and I think I just finished it right before my daughter was born. But I wanted to make sure that each module, and there's seven of them, was a course in what I teach in my sessions. So everything that I will go over with someone in my office, I have now included in this course. It was really important for me to kind of get that knowledge into something that would be accessible and kind of like fun and interesting to learn, rather than having it feel like a slog.

Did you say you created it while you were on maternity leave or.

Oh, when I was pregnant.

When you were pregnant. Okay. So when did you actually launch it to the public? Did you wait until you came back from maternity leave or. And tell us a little bit more about that process?

Yeah, so it was right up until last, probably a week. A week before my daughter came into this world. I was just finishing up the audio because the course is written and audio because the other part of it is I wanted people to be able to take it anywhere. So you can listen to it in the car, you can kind of, wherever you are, you can have access to the tools. So we weren't able to really launch it until I got back from maternity leave, which was in the early fall. And it took a while just for my brain to kind of catch up. So it was a slow. It was slow going at first, just getting back into my private practice and trying to figure out my own hours, my own brain space, that it took a bit of time to get it up and running. And it was probably not until kind of January of 2019 that we really were starting to kind of get back on the same kind of movement and swing of things, just because I was juggling a little bit more than previously.

And that's understandable. I think a lot of people listening to this can relate to it, both dads and new moms. So.

Yes.

So tell. Tell us how you actually launched it to the world. How do you let people know that it was there and a little bit more about that process?

So there were a lot of different ways that we were thinking about launching it. One was through an email sequence that we wrote, which again, for anybody who's written their own email sequences, it takes some time. And just going through that process of writing it. What's the message? How do we. How do I stay my authentic self in writing and writing it? Not wanting to feel kind of as so salesy, but more of like, this is what I've created. I want to kind of share in that. So we actually Launched it to my subscribers through my newsletter first, just to kind of see where it landed, because these were people that have been with me for a few years at that point. And the list was growing and kind of took a bit of a lull again for maternity leave. But we just wanted to see where it kind of landed. And it did pretty well. We got some sales, but based on the numbers, we had kind of anticipated a bit more. But we were trying to kind of fine tune the kinks of like click throughs versus how far people are getting, trying to figure out what we can add to the course, getting feedback from people. So that's kind of where we started. And then we kind of grew into getting back into Pinterest. So being able to run some ads on Pinterest, doing a landing page and kind of a free download offering of a cognitive behavioral therapy workbook that I've written, which in cognitive behavioral therapy is essentially, just because you think or believe something doesn't mean that it's true. But when it feels true, how do you know it's not true? And when you're stressed and anxious, all the thoughts that you're thinking start to feel true. And this kind of magnet, lead magnet was more of giving people that kind of idea of like, this is what the course can offer and giving a real piece of significant information and strategy to just let them know that this is what the course will look like. So that's kind of where we, we've been. And then what we're working on now is kind of growing more on the Instagram end and seeing if, if that can be a part of marketing and sales as well. Okay.

So I'm a huge fan of Pinterest. I love Pinterest, especially for what you're doing in terms of the blogging and because it sounds like you have a ton of content for, from a blog perspective, you've been doing it for many, many years for the Pinterest, for the download that you had. How do you. And you might not know this. So I'm asking a question that you might not know the answer to. Do you know how well that particular download did? Like, was it converting, like what you anticipated it to convert at?

So it was. If Kristen were here, she could totally tell you like the right stats. What I do know is it the click through rate was actually very good, but the sales at first weren't matching. So that's when we had to go back and really look at like, is there something off with the sales page? Do we need to give More information. Do we need to tweak things a little bit? And that's where all the fine tuning kind of behind the scenes work happens, which a lot of customers and clients like you don't see that work. And I think for the entrepreneurs, like that's really, I think where the learning experience is. You're really trying to figure out like what is the best way to share this message. But Pinterest has been wonderful for us and definitely the kind of medium we like the best. And I love it myself just in terms of. And I kind of offer that as a strategy for people as well in terms of creating vision boards and being able to kind of think about things if you're a more visual person, that really creating boards to help you do that has been wonderful for people. So I love Pinterest as well, but that's been a wonderful medium for us.

So did you have them going from your lead magnet and then once they downloaded the main lead magnet, you had some type of nurture sequence. And at the end of that nurture sequence, you are offering the online course? Is that how you had it set up?

Yeah. So what we did is we had the lead magnet and they would download it, we would have the thank you page and then offer more information on the course if they were interested in more. Here is the breaking every day and just slivers, nut chunks course and kind of going over that in a bit more detail. So they were able to get that. And then also if they wanted to sign up for the monthly newsletters, they could do that as well.

Okay, so it was basically a tripwire on the thank you page, correct?

Yes.

Yeah. So let me ask you this and I'm going to change kind of direction a little bit. You know, I think across the world people have gone through a lot of stress and anxiety, you know, with the pandemic and everything. Did, you know, see any changes last year either in your private practice or kind of people who were coming to you and wanting help in this area?

Yeah, it's been, I think 2020. I know we're in 2021 and it continues has been the busiest year for me by far. And especially in private practice, people who were not stressed or that anxious pre pandemic became anxious because. And stressed because coping strategies like going to the gym and seeing friends and getting out and having dinners with people, you know, just life stopped. And so people had to get creative with how to manage their stress. The other is that people are now, for those who are able to work from home, that Meant that not only were they working from home, they were doing everything from home. And that also meant that notifications for work email were going off at like 10 o', clock, 11 o' clock at night. And there they are kind of about to go to bed or trying to have dinner with family and they're responding to email. So work was not shutting down either, which was that that kind of boundary has been a struggle for many people. And so that's when people will come to me and try to figure out how do you revamp something that you've never done before and how do you kind of set your own limits and boundaries and how to do that in a way that maybe was a little bit easier kind of leaving work at work because you worked in an office and could kind of go home and had some time. So I've definitely seen an uptick in people wanting to meet with me and I know many clinicians have felt that as well.

So let me ask you this. Given the changes with this past year, what do you see as next steps in your business to kind of help people through this crisis, if you would?

Yeah, so I think the next steps we're working on, one is a membership program so that for people who are wanting more strategies, a bit of help, maybe not wanting to necessarily commit to weekly therapy, or, you know, might not have time for 45 minute sessions once or twice a week, but want something and some help. We're creating a membership program where every month you will get something in your email inbox on anxiety management, stress management tips from me, including some other things that we're working on that you wouldn't get just in the newsletter. The other is I'm creating a mini course that's just video, but I'm taking three modules that I think are really important and that I've seen a lot in the past year. One is knowing the difference between good and bad stress. I think a lot of people are surprised that there's good stress out there, but there is. People can really thrive. And good stress, I think a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to that. Otherwise we wouldn't be in this field that's inherently stressful, that there's a lot of us, that when the pressure is on, we actually feel really energized and motivated and ambitious. And then there's bad stress that can really hinder us in our sleep or appetite or relationships with other people. So really wanting to understand what your good stress is and what your bad stress is. So that's one module to the course, another is really going over cognitive behavioral therapy, which is, again, you can have negative, anxious, stressful thoughts. They don't necessarily mean that they're real. Just because you feel something is true doesn't mean that it is true. And cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the gold standards for rewiring our brain to think more clearly rather than letting the emotions dictate what we think and feel. I want to do a module on that, then. The last module to this is doing a course on boundaries, setting your personal boundaries and knowing what your limits are and how to say no. A lot of us in the kind of business world want to say yes to everything and everybody because it's networking. It's how we grow. It's our reputation, it's. We want to help. And that's when we get into trouble and we feel taken advantage of sometimes or we start to feel burned out. So being able to look at what you want your personal boundaries to be and how do you start saying no and not feeling guilty for it, not feeling bad for it, is, I think, another skill set that I've seen people come in with not having and desperately wanting. So all this kind of knowledge I've seen in my private practice, what people are really wanting now, I wanted to take and create something that would help them moving forward. And instead of just doing written and audio, which is the big course, I wanted to do something that was video so they could see me and it could feel like they were kind of being in a class with me. And they're short modules, they're 15 or 20 minutes each. It's nothing major in terms of time that you need to invest in. But again, really wanted to take what I was seeing in my practice over the past year and thinking if somebody else is out there that is needing all these skills and strategies, like, here's another way to do that. So that's what we have on the horizon.

I love the membership idea. I think that's. I mean, there's probably others out there similar, but I've never heard of it in this field. And I think that there's a demand for that. So I'm anxious to see. We'll have to have you on another year or so whenever you watch and see how that's how that's going there.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, Angela, I have one last closing question for you. You've been doing this for a while in this business, in this entrepreneur world for a while. You've been blogging for a long time. What advice do you have for other online course creators or entrepreneurs out there.

I think the biggest piece of advice I can have or offer, which I wish I had when I first started, is that we learn by doing and that it can take a while to really find your audience and kind of hit your note. My first thought out of the gate as I wrote this course, it took me five months and we're just going to throw it out there and it's going to sell. It took a while to really figure out how to do that and work out the kinks. So I think part of being an entrepreneur is embracing failure and things not running smoothly, things not going according to master plan. And sometimes just remembering that and knowing that you're in it to be creative and find your way through, I think is something that I wish that I had remembered and held on to years ago. And that creating a course is a big piece of work and to be something that you're proud of, that you have a knowledge set that is important and people are looking for it. And the fact that you can create that and offer that to people is wonderful. So if you're able to create a course, say, pat yourself on the back and embrace that, it might, you know, that there are, like, anything, you know, kinks to work out, and we learn by doing. So once you start kind of moving through, through that, you'll be able to figure it out and kind of see that growth in yourself and in your course, which I think is a wonderful part of this job.

And I think that's some great advice. And, you know, in everything that we do in business, right, you just gotta get it out there and tweak it as you go along. Because for certain, marketing is all about tweaking and testing. Yes, Angela, where can people find you if they want to learn more about stress management? They want to learn more about your course. Where can I send them?

Sure. So there's two places if they want to check out my practice, you can go to progress, well, wellness.com which is my website, and on there you can see me. And I really like the website because I think it represents very much my style. You can sign up for my newsletters there as well. And if you're interested in learning more about the course, you can go to worriedtowellbalanced.com and that's where the course is located.

And I will make sure that those links are in the show notes so everybody has that and they can click on them and find you. Angela, thank you so much for sharing your journey today and how you kind of got into the online entrepreneur world and in launching your online courses. I appreciate everything you shared and I know that others can learn from what you've done.

Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun kind of going through the journey and hopefully right people that are listening know that there's help out there and I'm glad that I can be a part of that for people.

Thanks. Thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you love the show, we'd appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform and show us some love there. Have a great rest of your day and bye for now.