Diana Heldfond: Online assessments & the future of empowered learning

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Hello and welcome to the Women and ADHD Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Weber. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45, and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life— school, jobs, my relationships— all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, Both professionally and personally. Okay, we are gonna get right into it this week with episode 96, in which I interview Diana Heldfond. Now, for those of you who have been listening to this podcast for a while, you'll know that most of the women I've interviewed who are moms were diagnosed after one of their kids. That wasn't the case for me. I was diagnosed with ADHD first, and then I started looking at both my kids and the traits I saw in them. I have a 15-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy, and I've been watching them thinking, wondering, is this also ADHD? Kind of going over everything they do with a fine-tooth comb, as one does. I've spoken a lot about this journey of how to seek a diagnosis for them, how to go about it, where to go for one. I wanted to make sure I didn't screw this one up. I've wanted to go about this with a lot of intention. Well, I finally settled on an online company called Parallel Learning. Both my kids completed their comprehensive learning and psych evaluations recently with Parallel. Although at the time of this interview, neither of them had been diagnosed yet, They have since both been diagnosed with ADHD. I have been absolutely impressed with so much about Parallel Learning from the moment I stumbled upon them, and it was no surprise when I found out that the founder of Parallel was not only diagnosed in childhood with dyslexia and ADHD, but that she started this company at the age of 26. Diana is now on a mission to make psychoeducational services widely available across the nation. So as founder and CEO of Parallel, Diana is building the first tech-enabled integrated care model for children with learning and thinking differences. We talk all about the online assessment process for kids, which is a relatively new option for families and schools. We also talk about empowered learning and the importance of positive framing and teaching kids about the strengths of ADHD at an early age, rather than simply diagnosing this as a disorder. I was really grateful to get the chance to sit down with Diana and hear her personal story, and also chat all about this incredible business that she has started and how much it has already impacted and benefited my family's journey. And I'm sure so many other families too. Okay, enjoy. Diana, I first want to give a shout out to whoever does the SEO for Parallel. They need a raise because I have to say, like, I found Parallel. I literally was at my wit's end. I didn't know what to do about getting my kids diagnosed or at least going through an assessment because I know that both of them, I didn't want to just do the traditional route like with their pediatrician. I knew that there was like a lot more nuanced stuff going on with it. Which we'll talk about later, but I literally just Googled on my phone out of frustration, psych evaluations near me, and Parallel came up. It was like the first thing that came up, and then here we are. That is music to my ears. I know, right? Like, I wanted to let you know that that happened because I feel like it was just— it felt like fate intervened, and it was such like this moment of relief, and I've just been so happy with everybody I've dealt with, and I can't, I can't gush enough about how wonderful the company is. So I'm so thrilled to be able to sit down with you and not only to be able to tell you this face-to-face, but also just to hear your story and kind of how this happened and this company that you've created. It must be such a whirlwind at this point. So let's start with your own childhood diagnosis. I know on the website you said that you vividly remembered having one of your peers proclaim that he had finished a Harry Potter book and you feeling like, oh my God, what's wrong with me? So talk about your diagnosis as a child. What was going on and what were some of the signs that your parents saw, your teacher saw that got you that diagnosis? And how old were you?

Yeah. Well, first off, I just got off with my marketing team, so I'll have to get back on with them after this to give them that feedback. They'll be happy to hear. It's always so great to connect with, you know, parents that are involved with the company and students that are actually interacting with the platform and our providers. So I'm so happy to hear all this and excited to dig in more. But in terms of, yeah, my personal story, you know, as I say on the website, on the About page, yes, I do have that very vivid memory. You know, it was reading time in first grade and I was reading, you know, picture books that had maybe 1 or 2 words per page kind of thing, trying to, you know, sound out cat and hat kind of thing. And there were kids that were, you know, finishing full chapter books, right? And that was mortifying when you're 7 years old, right? However, I would say that those certain kids, that one kid in particular, was probably far more advanced than the majority of the classroom. But it was very clear that I was, you know, progressing at probably the slowest speed of all of the other students. And that was— very isolating when you're 7 years old and, you know, you're not super aware, right, at that point of kind of how much extra work it's going to take to, to get through school. But it was just very— it was clear, right, that I was progressing at a different pace than, than peers at that point. Um, that was kind of my earliest memory of kind of self-identifying as maybe quote unquote different. I actually ended up being diagnosed with dyslexia that same year. I was very lucky in that my parents were pretty aware of what the symptoms of dyslexia and learning differences more broadly looked like, and so they really intervened early to make sure that I did get tested and got extra support. And so I also mentioned, you know, in that little story on the About page that I am kind of one of the lucky ones, right? Most students, unfortunately, throughout America are really struggling before anyone ever really intervenes, and of course learning differences can mean a lot of things and also can hit students at very different points or manifest in different ways, right? And so things might be all smooth and fine one year, one grade, and, you know, really, really shift by the next year, right? And so that's where I feel like, again, I do feel very lucky that I was kind of a product of that early intervention, was able to have a lot of resources in place to ultimately help me, I guess, stay somewhat in line with some of my classmates. I would say that I always felt like I was working A lot harder and putting a lot more time into my studies in order to complete my assignments and get good grades and do all of the things that, you know, I wanted to achieve in my academic career. And I think the other thing I'll just note is when you are diagnosed that early and actually get real interventions put in place, whether it's working, you know, one-on-one with a learning specialist or Working with an executive function coach or whoever the specialist is, right, that's needed for that specific diagnosis, you still don't totally process what that means, right? When you're 7, when you're 8, or when you're 9, even frankly all the way, it wasn't until I was in high school that I even remotely began to take note of what dyslexia actually meant, or tried to really understand how I was different from my peers. And That was only because I found myself really having to advocate for myself in the classroom to get certain accommodations and so on, that I did actually truly have to be able to explain to my teachers, you know, this is why I need 50% extra time, or this is why I need to sit in the front of the classroom, right? And it is just kind of a crazy thing. I think a lot of parents struggle with and teachers struggle with is how do you even talk to a 7-year-old or 8-year-old about why you have this kind of scary medical diagnosis and why you're working harder than your peers and why it's good to work with this specialist or so on or get this extra support. But yet you as a child want to be in soccer practice with your friends, right? So a lot of takeaways, I guess, from being diagnosed so early, but definitely feel like I had a very unique story and wanted to be able to make my reality a reality for more students across America. And that's really where Parallel came from.

Yeah. You know, I feel like from all the conversations I've had with women, most of whom were diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood, you know, I've interviewed more than 100 women at this point. And I feel like for me, the trends that I'm seeing, we have a lot of differences, but one of the things I've noticed is that women who were diagnosed with some other learning disability at a young age, usually dyslexia or dyscalculia or dysgraphia, had a much different experience, even if they weren't diagnosed with ADHD until adulthood, but they, at least it was instilled in them at a very young age that there was nothing wrong with them, right? That they had a learning disability, that they needed extra help, and that when something wasn't working, they would get the help and the accommodations they needed. And that was almost like a switch that went off in certain kids. And then for other kids, myself included, who weren't diagnosed, who were only diagnosed with depression and anxiety in adulthood, you know, that, that idea that like the onus was always on me to figure it out. The onus was on me to like get my act together. and to work harder or study harder, you know, all of those messages that I received from my parents or my teachers that it was like I was the problem. And I feel like that is like a real dividing, you know, fork in the road for a lot of us with when it comes to— and this is, you know, not— I'm not, you know, a researcher or anything. This is just my own observations from these interviews. But I feel like that makes such a huge difference. And, and I feel like also with parents who are concerned about like, I don't want my kids to have to live with these labels of these diagnoses, You know, I, you know, we all talk about all the labels we ended up with instead of the diagnosis, right? So I ended up with all these labels of being lazy, being unmotivated, being disorganized, you know, you name it, we're gonna get labeled no matter what. It feels like it will be so much more beneficial to have this like more of a medicalized diagnosis and to be like, okay, now this is what I need. This is how I'm going to get the help I need and not just always to be like, well, I just need to figure it out. I just need to get my act together. I just need to not be Insert piece of shit, you know, adjective. Do you remember the assessment process? Do you remember any of that from that? Because that's pretty young, 7.

Well, I've been assessed many times throughout my childhood, given that I had my first one when I was 7, and you're supposed to do it every 3 years in order to actually get those accommodations. And also, it's really important, right, as I made that earlier comment, so many things change grade by grade and expectations of students. And so even within parallel, right, we see this all the time where a child's diagnosed when maybe they're 7, 8, 9 years old, and by the time that they're stepping into middle school, these conditions have manifested in very different ways and the struggles look very different, right? And so it is really helpful to go and get reassessed and work with that psychologist to really understand what's going on at that point in time. I'll also note from my own personal experience, right, I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was 7, but I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until high school. And that is because, yeah, frankly, I, to your point, I had a lot of the resources in place and was working really hard. It wasn't until, frankly, you had all of these different subjects to handle and a lot of work for each of those subjects that I would just short circuit. I couldn't get anything done because I just couldn't bounce around that much from subject to subject. And to this day, it still weighs on me. As CEO, I have a lot, a very long to-do list of things, and it gives me comfort if there's like one large project to tackle as opposed to 20 different little things that, you know, apply to different parts of the business, because that's truly when, you know, the anxiety kicks in. And I just know that I'm just going to be all over the place, right? Like those little tasks throughout my life have always been the toughest things to get done because I'll get started on one thing and then all of a sudden, 20 minutes later, I'm bouncing around to the next, right? Yeah, it's been an interesting thing to navigate over the years. But yeah, I will say I don't think I ever realized that ADHD was the issue until, like I said, I got to just a different point in my academic career and the expectations were different of me. And all of a sudden— It was very clear, right? Like, I went to go get retested for dyslexia, and I actually was the one that was talking with my parents and was talking with the psychologist, asking, you know, can you test for this? Because it's something that's— it was very clear to my teachers, it was clear to my parents, it was clear to myself that I was having a really hard time just completing tasks, even though I considered myself a doer, like a Type A person. And that disconnect, exactly like you said, right? You start to Really question, like, you're like, is this laziness? Or what is this, right? And like, why can't I get over these barriers? And it can be really, really discouraging for any student or also any adult, right, that's going through it and self-labeling themselves as a result of, you know, all of these struggles, as opposed to going through this more formal diagnosis process. It's a larger conversation, I think, that just needs to be had. And luckily, I do think society is starting to have the conversation.

Yeah, right? I mean, I'm constantly questioning all of that, even with this diagnosis. The number of adults who are getting diagnosed and kids who are getting diagnosed since lockdown and since the pandemic is so crazy that I'm like, is this ADHD? Is something else happening? Are we just going through this like collective trauma? Is it like, are we, you know? And then the answer is always like, does it matter? And then I'm like, I don't know, it does. For whatever reason, it seems to matter for me. And then I'm like, oh right, that's the ADHD talking. So, but it's, it's such a crazy time because I think we're going through this period of time where thanks to social media and TikTok and the internet, the demand for diagnoses are, is getting higher and higher and higher as the conversation is changing around mental health. And as people are starting to recognize ADHD doesn't just look like a little boy who can't sit still. ADHD manifests in, you know, emotional dysregulation and— Paralysis and all of the ways in which we're kind of starting to understand how it manifests, especially in women and in girls. But here we are, everybody wants to get diagnosed and either they're finally getting to see their brick-and-mortar local doctor and the doctor's like, don't be ridiculous, you did fine in school, you're just tired, I think you're just depressed, or all the things that are happening to, especially to adults. Or there's a waitlist of years. And so I feel like that had to have had something to do with when you— how old are you now?

I'm actually 26.

Okay, so you're still 26. I was going to say, so this is when you kind of had this idea that you wanted to bring— get into the telehealth field. So walk me through what was going on in terms of starting Parallel and this light bulb entrepreneurial moment where you're like, oh my God, I have an idea. I'm going to start a business. And I'm sure You went into a hyperfocused fog and came out with all of this VC and everything.

Yeah. I mean, as I said earlier, right, like I recognize that my experience, even just having parents that were aware of what symptoms to look out for or being willing to do this testing in the first place was unique. Right. And when you dig in deeper, right, even parents that are trying to get their kids tested or get services for their kids once diagnosis has been made, it's really difficult, right? To your point earlier, you know, waitlists are very long. It's very expensive to get a private evaluation, costs thousands and thousands of dollars, right? And if you're going through the school district, frankly, you could also be waiting for months and you might not even ever get an evaluation. And I think schools are also under just an immense, immense amount of pressure right now because they're also extremely short-staffed. And, you know, I'm sure school districts wish that they could be doing a lot more for special ed students, but I do think that during COVID it's fair to say that special ed students were probably disproportionately affected because so many of them had services fully, fully cut off. Nonetheless, the idea for Parallel actually had come earlier than COVID, but COVID was kind of the big change agent in which I was like, all right, this really, both for my life personally, but also for The larger idea, it was very clear that this was the right time to start exploring, right? Because the virtual model really has become just the main mode of healthcare services at this point coming out of COVID But pre-COVID, a lot of the folks that would need to buy into virtual testing had kind of been wishy-washy about it. So like the American Psychological Association, National Association of School Psychologists, the testing companies that publish all of the testing materials, you know, no one had really forged into, well, you know, can we actually do this in a virtual setting and have it be accurate, right? Because keep in mind, we're doing very intense, thorough evaluations and using real clinical measures that were historically built for in-person testing. And we're actually very lucky here at Parallel. The head of our clinical team, Dr. Jordan Wright, is actually the researcher who did all of the studies to actually equate online testing or virtual testing with in-person testing and to be able to say that those norms actually do line up. And that has been the research that has really been the go-to over the past 2 years as many psychologists start to use virtual therapy or tele-assessment, you know, in their practice. It's what, you know, American Psychological Association has pointed to. for the last 2 years. And so you've seen this kind of validation of tele-assessment as a practice, which is really exciting to see. And frankly, one of our other clinical advisors, Dr. Damon Korb, who's based out in California, he's a behavioral pediatrician. And when I first approached him about Parallel, he was like, You know, a year ago I would have laughed in your face if you told me you were going to do a virtual testing model. And he's like, but now COVID happened. And he's like, I'm totally on board. Let me know how I can be helpful. So I think that goes to show, right, just how much has changed. And so I, you know, it would be remiss to say that the timing of COVID did not, or has played a big role into why we launched our services. Now, and ultimately being able to provide, you know, much greater access to both testing as well as, you know, all of these different— we bucket as support services, right? But really trying to reach as many students as possible with all of the different services that you would need to really be successful, both in the classroom and in life, right? Because a lot of these executive functioning skills and mental health, you know, support and so on. are so highly relevant, not just to the child here and now when they're sitting in the classroom in 7th grade, right, but also the skill set that they're going to carry into, you know, their careers and the real world, right? A lot of my drive to start this company came from also really wanting to shift that narrative from, you know, these being disabilities, right, or this idea of children being different in a negative light to really celebrating uniqueness, right, of how children and all of us, frankly, think and learn, right? Because I don't think it's a controversial statement to say, like, there are visual learners and there are auditory learners. But the second you start putting a medical diagnosis like dyslexia and ADHD on the table, all of a sudden you're really isolating students. And historically, and this happened to me even personally in school, where it was like, other kids would be like, you're not, you know, you're so stupid, you can't even be in the normal classroom with us when, you know, it was like reading time, right? And That should not be the case through and through. So, you know, that is really the ultimate motivator here is to be able to provide the support to these students so that they feel like they really can go out and do anything that they want to do in life.

That's so beautifully said. I'd like to take a moment to thank BetterHelp for sponsoring this podcast. If you're a regular listener of this podcast, you know, I am a big proponent of therapy. Therapy provides me the best opportunity for verbal processing, something that is so important for my kind of brain and my sense of self. What I love about BetterHelp is that it's not a crisis line, it's not self-help, it is professional therapy that's done securely online from the comfort of your home. They assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist, and it's available for clients worldwide, so you get access to a broad range of expertise that might not be available to you locally. It also tends to be more affordable than traditional offline therapy, and financial aid is available. If you visit their website and read their testimonials, there are actually quite a few reviews that specifically reference help with ADHD. As a special offer for listeners of the Women and ADHD podcast, you'll get 10% off your first month. Simply sign up at betterhelp.com/womenadhd. That's betterhelp.com/womenadhd, and there's a link in the show notes. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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I speak to a lot of women who came to their ADHD diagnosis after their kids were diagnosed, and they started to be like, hmm, that's funny. That reminds me of my childhood. I should look into that. into this, or they were like looking into ways to help their kid from after an ADHD diagnosis, and they were like, oh, this is all ringing true to me. So I'm in a different situation where I was diagnosed, and now I look at my kids constantly and be like, do they, don't they, do they, don't they? And I have a girl and a boy, and my boy was like, you know, neither of them really falls into the stereotypical mold of ADHD. And you know, they're both incredibly well-behaved. They have their teachers always, you know, they have— they always do really well in school. Their teachers are like, they're so great. And I see, you know, I start to see a lot of the anxiety that underlies like how much work they're putting into presenting themselves that way, right? And that's what— and so the more I've sort of looked into ADHD and the more I've talked to women and formed this idea of what it looks like in children, especially the inattentive type, right? Which is just I see more and more of it so much in them. And yet at the same time, like, I was really dragging my feet on getting them assessed because I was worried, like I said it earlier, like, I'm worried that if I go through the school district, if I go through the pediatrician, they're gonna say, oh no, no, no, I don't know what you're talking about. They're fine. They do well in school. And then they rattle off all of these positive traits that as evidence of the fact that they can't possibly have ADHD. And so I was like, I don't wanna fuck this up. I wanted to like make sure I do this right. And so that's why I wanted to go through like a full-on psych assessment, do everything, because I'm like, even if it's not ADHD, I see a lot of that anxiety building up and I see a lot of the dysfunction, that's executive dysfunction that's happening, especially now that my daughter's in high school and there's bigger, more expectations for her to organize. She's just falling apart in terms of like her organizational skills. So I was like, I need to do this right. I wanna do the absolute, like, you know, most thorough assessment I possibly can. Mm-hmm. I live outside of New York City. I was calling the big centers in New York City, which are, like you said, thousands of dollars. I think one of them I called was $7,000 and there was a waitlist until the fall anyway. And I was sort of like, ugh, I was just at my wit's end because I could see that my kids— also, that was the other thing. My daughter was like, when she saw me not looking into a diagnosis, she saw me as not looking into a diagnosis for her. And she was like, what, do you not Do you not think I have it? Do you not care? And she was starting to see my indecision as me not caring. And I kept saying to her, I was like, no, you don't understand. I care so much that I really, really want to do this right. But I also know that like maybe it wouldn't be caught because it's so nuanced. And I get really like befuddled over the whole thing too, because then I'm like, am I, am I seeing something that's not there? And then I'm like, what even is ADHD? Because, because then I think, like, you know, I think like you said, like really what we're talking about is just these sort of neurodivergent ways of thinking. And, and oftentimes it's when you're in an, in an environment that is not beneficial to the way that you think, you are going to have these deficits. But for the most part, if you have all of these wonderful traits as well, if you're in an environment that is, um, helpful to that, right? And so it's like. School is just an environment that is never going to be really very beneficial or hospitable to a neurodivergent brain. And so anyway, they're both in different— as of this interview, they're both at different places in the assessment. My daughter's already gone through all of the assessment testing. She's waiting for the big reveal, what is going on. My son is about to— We've We've had the initial assess— uh, initial conversation with the psychologist, so he's about to go through the testing. So it's just like, I don't know, we're all so excited because it's like, what is it gonna be? Um, but there is a part of me that is terrified that if it's not ADHD, then I'm like, then what? And that's where my daughter came in and was like, you know what? It doesn't matter what I'm diagnosed with or if I'm diagnosed with anything. It's just like knowing Who I am, how I work best. Like, she like talked me off the ledge. She was so sweet. And she was like, it's really, I just want to know and then be able to get what I need to succeed. Right. And I was like, oh, it's so true.

Your daughter seems like, uh, if she ever wants an internship, she sounds amazing. And I think it's really amazing, by the way, when a child is so self-aware. Your daughter, I guess, is a teenager, right? But to be so self-aware to really want this, right? And I actually always equate it to— you see so many other brands popping up where it's like, you know, whether it's your Apple Watch tracking how much you walked or EverlyWell telling you what you're allergic to, right? I think there is like a human nature to kind of want to know how to like optimize for the best. performance, right? And to your daughter's point, right, I mean, who knows what the formal diagnosis comes out to be, but I think one of the things that's really exciting about the way that we've set up the parallel assessments and what you'll see in the final report, right, is that we go through all the good and the bad, right? We go through every cognitive function possible, um, to really say, okay, these are strengths and these are areas of weakness, right? And what I found in my own Experience, right, is where there are areas of weakness is where you learn to compensate, right, or how to cope, right, and work around those, right? But also even just knowing then the positive of like, where are you really strong, you can really start to lean into those skills. And it's extremely empowering when you shift the conversation to that framework, as opposed to, here's a scary medical diagnosis, you're different from all of your friends. and your peers, right? And you have a problem, right? And I think that that is historically— I mean, psychological evaluations are not a fun process to go through for a number of reasons, right? But I think that that is where we really try to put the student first, right? To make this an empowering experience for the student and frankly for parents like yourself, right? So to your point, whether it's ADHD or it's something else, or maybe it's really minor forms of certain things, right? You're still going to get this really robust understanding of still where are her extreme areas of strength. And then, you know, where are, you know, areas that, yeah, maybe the school district is going to say, like, there is a weakness that she needs, you know, specialized teaching or something. But like, nonetheless, it's still real. There's still areas of challenge for her. And she can ultimately, you know, lean into those strengths and also get the strategies to kind of work around those weaknesses, right?

Yeah. And I think that has been such a tremendous shift for me and my own mentality as a parent since my own diagnosis, which is like, I no longer look at any situation with my children with that mindset of like, well, you just need to try harder, right? It's always about like, what I know you want to succeed. I know the desire is there. So what do we need? What help do you need? to succeed, right? And that's such— it seems so obvious when I say it out loud, but it's a huge mindset shift. And I think so many of us fall into that category of like, this system is not broken, the system works, so you just need to try hard to figure out how to work within that system,

right? And the reality is, is, you know, I think to our earlier conversation, right, like you start to identify students as, you know, lazy or disorganized or disengaged, right, all of these really negative terms. But the reality is, is no child shows up to school not wanting to succeed or do well, or they don't want to be any of those things, right? There's usually some other underlying factor, whether it's learning difference related or mental health behavioral related, right? There's something else going on that's inhibiting that child from succeeding, right? But If you just peel it all back to the core, right, no child is showing up to school wanting to be the, you know, anxious one in the class or the disorganized one in the class or the lazy one in the class. And I think that that's what we, you know, definitely take for granted. And I also think that's where starting with such a comprehensive view of what's going on with your child is also a helpful place to start, right? Because you do get that whole picture as opposed to— Saying, oh, I think my child might have ADHD. Let's just do an ADHD test. And to your point, then what happens when it's not ADHD, but you didn't do any of the social, emotional, behavioral testing to say, oh, maybe it was actually anxiety, or maybe actually, you know, we should have done the cognitive achievement testing to say like, there's something completely different going on that we never saw coming.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And you know, when I was in high school, I got so much of that messaging of like, you just need to try harder. What's wrong with you? That I stopped going to class and then I ended up I feel so sad for that girl who just gave up on herself because I just stopped. Then I ended up with an attendance issue because I just didn't know what else to do. I just was sort of, God, I felt so lost and alone back then and I just desperately don't want that for my kids. But I am, to be honest, as a parent, knowing all I know about ADHD and how much I wish I could go back and there's so much of that grief around like, oh, the signs were there and nobody knew. and the life I could have led if anybody had seen the signs. I go through all of that, but I still worry if my kids are diagnosed with ADHD, how they're going to be viewed in the classroom by their teachers. To your point earlier, are they going to end up being put into IEP classes? The stereotype right now is you can't have ADHD because you do well in school. So if you do well in school, If you have ADHD, ergo, will the assumption be that they are a certain type of kid or a certain type of student? And I can't, like, I talk myself out of that, but at the same time, like, I, you know, it is a worry that I face where I'm like, maybe we don't have to tell people, you know, I'm like, you know, not only is there the diagnosis, but then there's like, do we get a 504? Do we go in that route? You know, there's so many of those issues that I'm like, why am I stressing over all of it?

Absolutely. I mean, I, like I said, I was the student in the system that was, I mean, it wasn't often, but I definitely do have memories of people, you know, making mean comments or teachers, you know, not wanting to abide by the actual documentation that I was showing them that said I needed certain accommodations and so on, right? And I will say on the flip side, right, even though that in its own right can be isolating, what's much more isolating is being the child that's getting— being hurt, right, or not being understood in classes or, you know, different treatment from your teachers, so on, right? But the skills that they will learn, I think, from going through that and also getting the support that they really need, which it sounds like your daughter is very self-aware already. But I think that ultimately, like, if I look at my own experience, I think a lot of that advocacy that I had to do for myself and Taking it into my own hands to understand what these conditions really meant and what it meant for me and how I learned best and so on meant that I was 10 times more mature by the time I was, you know, going through college and fully independent by myself. I knew exactly— I joke about this all the time, but like, I was like, I'm not buying this textbook. Like, I know I'm not going to read it. And instead, I went to every office hour and became really close with all my teachers. And I think I got more out of college than probably most college students did as a result. I also saved a lot of money by not buying a lot of textbooks. The reality is, right, like, I think actually when I talk to so many other people that have grown up with these conditions, right, so many people have learned to cope in really interesting ways that I think they end up actually learning life skills that really set you up for success in life. And like I said, I mean, it's always going to be isolating. There's no perfect solution. But I do think we all need to normalize like talking about these differences more because it shouldn't be that, you know, you as a parent don't want to give your child this kind of knowledge, right, or put them in a learning environment that's suited better to their needs because you want them to be treated differently.

Yeah, yeah, self-advocacy is so important, and I think it's drilled out of kids in a school environment too. And I hear it over and over with my kids, you know, where they, they've asked for an accommodation from their teacher something simple like, I, you know, I would— I like to sit in the front row because it helps me focus. And they need a 504 for that fucking thing because the teacher's like, won't do it. You know, you know, my daughter— our last name is W, so my daughter has to sit in the back of the classroom because most of her teachers prefer to put everybody alphabetically. I'm like, that is so ridiculous. And, you know, and I— and I'll say to her like, no, stand up for yourself. This is something you need. You need to, you know, and— and so this is something that you are allowed to ask. And she's like, no, you don't understand. Like, I'm not allowed to ask. And that's That's the reality, right? So I think regardless of what the diagnosis is, executive functioning coaching and just being able to teach kids how to advocate is something I think is so important. And I love seeing that in the parallel as the services that are offered, just simple things like coming up with organizational schedules or learning how to write emails and all of these things that are so important to how you show up in the world and how you— Yeah, advocate for yourself. And these aren't things that are just going to like, you know, you just, you don't just inherently know these things. And so it's so right. I think they're so valuable.

Exactly. And to be fair, actually, so I mean, I will also be transparent. We work with a lot of school districts, right? And we actually do serve their special ed department so that they can ultimately provide services to all the kids that need this extra support or different support, right? I will note is that some of our school district partners actually have been using the executive function coaching for general education students too, because the reality is, is those are skills that regardless of whether you have a diagnosis of ADHD or something else, right, like executive function skills are just core skills, right? And everyone can definitely, you know, benefit from, from some extra support there. And it's something that I never, never had growing up, but Boy, I wish I had, right? Because as you mentioned, right, they're really true real-life skills. I mean, even as I explained, right, like when my to-do list gets too crazy of, oh my God, there's too many things all over the place. That's where like I've now learned the skills to figure out how to like pare that down into digestible, how to get this actually done. But that's the type of stuff I could have been learning super early on.

Yeah, and not only that, but I think through my own diagnosis, I now realize that there are methodologies that work for other people that don't work for me, and that's okay, and it's not a judgment on who I am, right? Another thing that seems obvious, but it never occurred to me, you know, that there are methods that work for people that don't work for me, and that it's not a matter of trying to fix, you know, jam my square peg into a round hole, that it was really about finding the methodologies that do work and not feeling like a total failure in the process. Like, that's the other thing I feel like we need to teach kids from a very young age is, you know, this theme has been going out this whole conversation, right? Which is like, you are not the problem. You just need to find the tools that work for you.

No, absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

Hey, it's Katie here. I wanted to let you know I do not get any money from Parallel Learning to endorse their services. I am just a very Happy customer. And I'm also happy to announce that Parallel is offering Women and ADHD listeners a special back-to-school offer. To get a psychoeducational evaluation or educational support services for your child, call Parallel at 914-377-5655 and mention discount code WOMENANDADHD for 50% off your first month of services and $150 off an evaluation. Parallel simplifies and streamlines the psychoeducational process by significantly reducing waiting times, costs, and inconveniences through its virtual testing process. It has a world-class team led by Dr. Jordan Wright, as well as a team of licensed clinicians to conduct a psychoeducational evaluation that determines your child's learning needs and the best path forward. Parallel also has a team of executive function coaches and licensed learning specialists who are certified in Orton-Gillingham, Barton, Wilson, and more multisensory methods of tutoring. Establishing a support system for your child at the beginning of the school year can help build their confidence and ability to thrive in a new environment. If you're interested in learning more about how Parallel can help your child, please call 914-377-5655 or visit parallellearning.com. And remember to use the discount code WOMENANDADHD for 50% off your child's first month of services and $150 off an evaluation. And you'll find all those links in the show notes. When I was diagnosed with ADHD, it completely turned my world upside down. I looked back at so much of my life, my grades in school, my multiple careers and hobbies, my friendships, my marriage, motherhood, my relationship with food and my body, like all of this with a new lens. And it was overwhelming to say the least. If you've been diagnosed with ADHD and you're feeling blown away by this new insight into your brain and how it operates, I totally understand. I can help you begin to sort through this chaos, explore who you are and how your brain operates, so you can finally start to lean into your strengths and begin to use them to your advantage moving forward. Together, we can work to identify what obstacles you've been facing and create strategies to help you start living a more fulfilling, gratifying life. Head over to womenandadhd.com/coaching to book a 30-minute initial consult with me so we can figure out if my brand of one-on-one coaching is right for you. Again, that's womenandadhd.com/coaching, and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Hey friends, before we get started, I wanted to tell you about something I've been using lately that has made such a meaningful difference in how I plan my days and follow through on my goals. It's called Focus Focusbase pairs a simple, intuitive goal-setting app with a huge menu of community coworking sessions. They have over 100 to choose from every week, and they're all led by warm, dedicated hosts who gently cheer you on in whatever you have to do that day. I love the app. It has a brain dump feature where I can write down everything I want to do whenever I think about it, so nothing falls through the cracks. Then in one of the daily wake-up sessions, I can sort through that list. I can choose what's actually reasonable to accomplish that day, and then map out all of my next steps. From there, I pop into a community session whenever I'm ready, and I get some accountability. I stay focused while body doubling with other people, and then I can slip out when I'm done. Focus Space was built for brains like ours, and I am so glad they exist. The Women and ADHD coaches have all been using it too, and we are all raving about how helpful it's been for organizing our days and feeling more productive. Right now, Focus Space is offering Women and ADHD listeners a fantastic deal. You can try it for free for 14 days and get 20% off of your subscription when you use the code WOMENADHD. With that discount, it works out to be only about $2 a week, which is money well spent if you ask me. So if you're craving a little more structure in your day and a really warm and friendly space to get your work done, head to get.focused.space/WOMENADHD and grab your 20% discount today. Again, that's get.focused.space/WOMENADHD. And make sure to use the code WOMENADHD at checkout. You'll be glad you did. And hey, you'll probably see me in one of the sessions. And I also wanted to go back to the wording and the messaging in Parallel, I think is spot on, you know, just in what you were talking about earlier about like wanting families to feel like it's comprehensive and that there's like a holistic approach to these assessments, right? I felt that it's one of— another reason why I was so drawn to the company right away because I feel like I've done so much exhaustive research and I just felt like you guys just checked off every box in terms of like what I was looking for. Even just like your fonts and your color, the color, like the color palette and everything. It's just for me and my own like journey and searching for the proper way to have, you know, get my kids assessed. It just felt like you guys were like delivered from on high. I really, I'm so grateful. And that the environment of COVID like how random it all has been over the last few years that we've been going in this direction. And, you know, I'm not a fan of two-tiered health systems in this country, but I'm also just like so grateful for the different price point options that are available to different, you know, for families based on their needs. And how are you able to keep it so inexpensive?

Yeah, that is the go-to question. You know, at the end of the day, us being a tech company through and through, right, it's not just that we are putting the services on Zoom, right? There's a lot more that goes into the assessment process and a lot of administrative work and so on. And frankly, a lot of the reason— the main reason actually, when we broke it all down for why assessments cost so much And why they take so long, why there's those crazy long wait times, is that they're super inefficient. Like, honestly, if I was a psychologist, I would not do assessments either. I would purely do therapy hours because the most administrative, awful process. You're writing like 30-page reports from scratch. There's like no software that exists to help you with that. You're completely like at your own whim to like— everything about it is just, it's It's really, really inefficient. And I got really excited early on to be talking with these psychologists about, you know, how can we make your life better, right? Like, what are the processes within the full evaluation, right, that are just painful? And you're talking to these psychologists and they're like, oh, I record the scores 4 separate times. Like, I write it on scratch and then I put it into Riverside or Pearson, and then I get the norm scores and then I write it down again, and then I have to put it in the Final report. And I'm like, wait, how many hours of time is that? And they're like, probably like at least 1 to 2 hours. And then what that translates to for a family is like $400 an hour of report writing time that they're getting charged for. So that was where honestly the assessments have been like probably the most exciting thing to break down from a product perspective of like, where can we just make clinicians' lives better, as well as, you know, increase the actual like output for our actual students and families that we're working with. Because it's just wildly inefficient, right? So a lot of it comes down to automating a lot of processes around the assessment itself. And then, you know, we use kind of— we have this very collaborative model for actually doing the testing, as you've experienced with your daughter, where we have multiple folks involved to really be able to get to the most robust answer by having different professionals involved, right? So the educational professionals as well as the child psychologist. We have a care specialist that's dedicated to the team just to help navigate, you know, through those sessions and so on. It's a very high-touch service in a lot of ways. Like, we can— we hear out every family we talk to during that initial consultation. We hand-match them with the right psychologist based off of all of the information that we're gathering, right? There's parts where we're like, we don't want to automate any of this, right? Because it's so important that there is that human touch. But then there's parts with like report writing, or like, or the scoring is a perfect example where this is a waste of everyone's time, right? So that is kind of the long-winded answer of like what goes on behind the scenes. But yeah, ultimately we want to make it so that clinicians can focus on what they want to do, which is what they went to school to do, and that's seeing and serving these students, right? And being able to provide real outcomes to these students and not have them deal with like the administrative burden of scheduling sessions and buying test materials and writing out like where the child goes to school 6 times and different pieces of information.

I love it. Efficiency. That's what we're good at. Yes. Finding the fastest route, right? I feel like impatience is such a great quality for efficiency, right? You're just like, what's the fastest way we can get this done?

Right. It's also a lot about the collaborative nature, I'll note, about it. I mean, like, to be able to work with different psychologists, for example, like all of the intervention strategies that go into that learning plan that you have yet to receive, but I promise will be very exciting. That goes through a bunch of different strategies, right, to cope with various different symptoms that will come out during the testing process, right? Just to have different strategies, right, from different psychologists Within our network, right? And to have this open forum for all of our providers to be able to work together and interact with each other. Yeah, it feels like we're also kind of pushing psychology along, which is a really cool place to be.

Oh my God. Yeah, right. They must love working in that environment as well too, because it's like they feel heard and understood. And that reminds me of like all of the communication is so clearly written by neurodivergents. Or at least neurodivergent-friendly because it's like, you know, the important things are highlighted in red and I'm told very explicitly like, this is the action plan, this is the next step. First you do this and then you do this. And like every time I open an email, I'm always so grateful because I'm like, thank you, you write emails with bullet points. And so that's been entertaining.

That's one of the things with the reports that we also feedback we got really early on. There's this really awful— with private evaluations in particular, there's this thing where it's like the longer the report, the more you pay for it, basically. And the more I was talking to families, the more these parents were like, look, I've never necessarily been diagnosed with ADHD or dyslexia or whatever, but my child, you know, is clearly going through this evaluation process because they're struggling. I've never liked reading. I don't want to read a 30-page document of medical jargon. I just truly want to know what this means for my child in like plain English, right? And that is exactly what we've tried to do. And the way that we deliver these, these results to families, right, is really making it so that it's actionable, it's understandable, and that it really gets at your core questions that you walk through in that first clinical interview with the psychologist.

Yeah, I know. We often talk on this podcast how like The diagnostic process could not be more unfriendly to ADHD in so many ways. So I do really appreciate, uh, and I've been so hyper-aware through this whole experience with the company, just like seeing how, how like you do check off all of these wonderful boxes as somebody with ADHD trying to go through this incredibly overwhelming process with my kids. So I always appreciate it. Kudos to my care coordinator, Sarah, too. She's been amazing and answered a lot. She's talked me off the ledge a few times.

We have a really— there are some really great people behind our care team, for sure, that are really there to make sure that, you know, everyone's having a great experience. So I'm glad to hear all this feedback.

Well, I am so glad I found you, and I will shout from the rooftops because I think it's such a wonderful service, and I'm so glad it exists. And yeah, I wish such— so much success for the company and One thing I ask all of my guests before I want— before I let you go, if you could rename ADHD to something that's a little less confusing and problematic, is there something you would rename it to?

That is a great question. I don't think this will come as any surprise. I think I would take deficit and disorder out of the title just because I, as you've heard over the past hour, definitely take offense to, you know, a lot of this language of medical diagnoses and labeling and all that good stuff. So I would say that would probably be my, my main piece of feedback to whoever is writing DSM-5 diagnoses.

Right? Yeah, just make it like 5 exclamation marks and then we'll be done.

Yeah.

Well, it's, it's an interesting conversation because I feel like most of the people I interview will say, yeah, you know, take away the disorder, take Stop pathologizing it. But at the same time, there's also that understanding that like in order to advocate, in order to have your needs met, there does have you do have to go through this whole process of of the 504 and like you know it makes it much easier to get accommodations when you have a diagnosis and also it it makes it validates for us that need to say you know I don't need to go to somebody and say I have to sit in the front row because I have ADHD. I can just say. I need to sit in the front row flat out like that, you know, but often a diagnosis will, will validate that for me and for the person who, you know, for the teacher. And so, yeah.

I mean, it's also literally to your daughter's point, the only way to get things done.

Yeah, exactly.

And that is why Parallel exists, right? Um, to be able to make that actually a reality for, for more students.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me and sharing your story and your perspective. I was so excited to pick your brain and, like I said, just get this opportunity to gush over this wonderful company that came in my life at such a wonderful time and has been so meaningful. And like, I'm just so excited. So you better not screw this up. No, I'm kidding.

I hope the report's everything it lives up to.

Well, I know part of me was almost like, maybe I should wait to interview Diana after the fact just to But I like the fact that the jury's still out.

You don't have to publish this until after you receive the final report.

Well, like I said, I mean, even I feel like the whole experience has been so important. And I think regardless, like, I'm already at a place of peace where I'm like, regardless of what this diagnosis ends up being for either of my kids, because I'm still on this understanding journey of like what we're even talking about when we talk about ADHD. I think it'll just be, it'll be fascinating to me either way to find out just a little bit more about who they are as kids and what's the next step in how we can best help them. So I really appreciate all of that, uh, you know, all of that information and just the, the feeling so held, you know, in the way that I think we really desperately need as neurodivergents in this kind of assessment process. So thank you.

I'm glad that we've been able to live up to that. And no, thank you so much for having me on. It's so wonderful to meet you. Really appreciate all the feedback. If you have any other, like, more critical feedback, please also share because we're always, you know, looking to improve our services. But, you know, I'm just so happy to hear that all the core reasons that we exist really are coming through and really excited to hear. So appreciate you, you know, having me on today, and it was so fun to chat.

Awesome. All right, well, thank you. And there you have it. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Women and ADHD Podcast. Also, you know, we ADHDers crave feedback, and I would really appreciate hearing from you, the listener. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple Podcasts or Audible. And if that feels like too much, and I get it, Then just take a few seconds right now to give me a five-star rating, or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency, and they may still be struggling and don't even know why. And if you'd like to find out more about me and my one-on-one coaching for women with ADHD, head over to womenandadhd.com/coaching, and you can always find that link. I'll see you next week when I interview another amazing woman who discovered that she is not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD and she is now on the path to understanding her neurodiversity and finally using this gift to her advantage. Take care till then.

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