How To Become Unskippable w Jim Kukral

All right. Time to strap on that 5-point seatbelt system. Cause I neglected to ask you two for words, but a 5-point seatbelt system is necessary for a show like this. All right. You're about to hear why creating a joyful experience and how to become unskippable is the most important thing you can do for your business. That and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurship Elevator. That's how you start a show. Remember Crazy Eddie? No. Do you remember Crazy Eddie? You're too young. You remember Crazy Eddie? No, you're too young. Jesus, is anyone here in their 40s? How old are you, Kels?

32.

32.

32. How old are you?

37.

Oh my God, like children. So I'm almost 70, uh, in 20 years. So I'm 50, right? Almost 50. And there used to be this guy Crazy Eddie that would go on these commercials selling, uh, electronics. The store's called Crazy Eddie, and the guy would just yell. He'd be like, "You gotta buy my refrigerators! You gotta buy the TVs! It's on sale today at Crazy Eddie's!" And that's like how his whole commercial was. You couldn't forget him. And ultimately got indicted for something, some crime. He was the actual owner, and he was crazy. Hence Crazy Eddie. My name is Mike Michalowicz, called Manic Mike. He was Crazy Eddie. I'm Manic Mike.

Crazy Eddie.

You know, you really can't make one slip up. You know that we don't edit the show.

There were a few that I didn't comment on.

That's true. Yeah, I saw your snarling nose and your twisted lip, like, yeah, trying to hold your laughs in. You are difficult. You are difficult. My name is Mike Michalowicz. I'm an author on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. You know that gap, the perceived success you have and the real struggle that you do have? Well, we fix that on this show. I'm joined in studio by the snarling Kelsey Ayers.

Hello, friend. Thank you for listening to us. Please don't forget to subscribe wherever you're listening.

Have you ever snarled at someone ever?

Like, I mean, not really. No, I don't think so.

Right? I might have once. Like, I was so angry. I think I have.

Yeah.

Have you ever gotten so angry you don't know what to say and you kind of start stomping your feet?

Yeah, more often than not, that's the— I have no idea what to say.

When's the last time you were angry?

Uh, I I would love to see that. I want to see—

I would pay money for that, right?

Yeah.

To be honest, like, it's been a long time. Like, I really can't recall when I was genuinely angry. Probably like during my divorce.

Okay, that was quite a few years back now. I thought, Jeremy, I came into work one day, this is maybe 6 months ago or something, and I was like, oh my God, the first time I've seen Kelsey pissed. Because she wouldn't look at me. I'm like, good morning everyone, you know. And Kelsey's like looking down, she's like, good morning, right? And she's like typing away. I'm like, oh And I came out there, I go, I usually go into my office, I get my music going. It's the same. It's such a predictable routine. I go in there like, Echo, turn on all lights.

And then Echo doesn't listen.

It doesn't listen.

Why? Echo, turn on all lights.

I say it like 6 times over instead of just turning the switch on. Then I go and I go play music and it doesn't play. I'm like, Echo, play music. And then the lights turn off.

Echo, turn on the heater.

Right. It's yeah. You turn on the heater. That's my little coffee heater. It never works. I get so frustrated. So then I go out and get my coffee, right? So it's always, I go get my coffee and I come back and then I'll hold my coffee and I'll just stare at Kelsey. While she's sitting at her desk till she has to look up, you know, which is usually a second or two because she knows I'm there. And then she's like, hey, how's your day going? Super nice. Because I just need that fuel to get started. Well, I come over this one time, I put my coffee down on the desk, and she doesn't even look up. So I kind of pick it up again, put it down towards the beer clock. Nothing. I do it a third time. I'm like, hey. She goes, hey. I'm like, all right. I went back to my office. Later that day, I'm like, you okay?

She's like, yeah, I'm fine.

Well, it ends up she had like a double pneumonia, she had thrown out her back, and the other blurter— usually you ask a question and Kelsey blurts out the answer. Well, there's another blurter here named Amy Cartelli. I'm like, hey Kelsey, what's wrong with you? And then she just jumps up, she goes, Amy jumps up and goes, oh, she's got a bad neck, she injured herself.

Injured, injured, she injured herself.

I'm telling a story, just go with it. Go.

That was what Amy said, so it's okay.

Amy's not the sharpest tool, to be honest. So she jumps up, it's like she injured herself. I'm like, how'd she injure? And she's like, well, and then the whole story. Within a day you were back to normal.

Yeah, yeah, it was good. I did my stretches and she honestly, she gave me a warm compress that I wore the whole day and night.

So does that really work?

Yeah, it really helps.

So I tweaked my neck also trying to lift a tree. So my back is hurting me. I came in, I'm like, my back hurts. And Kelsey's like, what happened? Like, nothing. I don't know what caused it. She's like, well, was there some trigger yesterday? Did you do bent-over rows or something? I said, well, I did try to pick up a fallen tree, which weighs about 400 pounds.

Oh, maybe that could be it.

I'm like, oh, so that's it. I also tweaked my neck, um, which is the weirdest sensation because I want to just roll it until it cracks and it hurts so bad. It makes it worse. Every time I try rolling it, it makes it worse.

Yeah, my back has for the last 5 days has been killing me. Because of the move. Just up and downstairs, up and downstairs, up and downstairs. Like, it's awful. I'm so glad that—

did you rent a moving truck finally?

No, I borrowed a trailer.

So, okay, at least you have a trailer.

Yeah, yeah.

So, uh, little last boring detail about me. So I go to, uh, I bought that new UTV I bought, you know, that's that electric thing. I went out for a day with my son. It was the best, but the, the driveshaft, something happened to it, so it's clunking. It's under warranty. I had to get down to this place in Phillipsburg. I was telling you guys earlier about it. And I don't have a trailer, so I'm like, oh, I'll go to U-Haul to rent a trailer. I measure this thing. U-Haul's like, you can't, you can't trailer that thing. It's too big.

Oh, no way.

Yeah, so I call. I'm like, wait, you can't tow it because it's not road capable. So I call the towing guy and he's like, no. He's like, I got an idea for you because you got a landscaper. I'm like, yeah, weirdo. He's like, call your landscaper, they can tow anything. I'm like, that's stupid. So I hang up, I call the landscaper, I'm like, I have a stupid question that my towing guy said. He's like, you might be able to hold this? He's like, yeah, no problem, I'll be over there in 10 minutes.

Oh, that's awesome.

So I call the towing guy back and say, you know what I think it was—

You know why? Because they have trailers that they drive the lawn mowers up on.

Exactly, they have these massive machines.

U-Haul didn't have a trailer like that?

No, at least not the ones near us. I went to a couple.

Oh, that's crap.

Yeah, that's crap. But my landscaper guy towed it. It was an hour drive, so the whole way we're talking. I'm like, um, so like, what do you talk about?

So what was 5th grade like?

Yeah, so how many bricks do you usually lay in a day?

Yeah, that was basically the conversation. Like, so once you cut the grass— like, so the grass cutting conversation was about 3 seconds. Yeah, he's like, yeah, we use mowers. Like, so how do you like refuel a mower? Yeah, pour gas in. I'm like, okay, okay. The whole conversation like that. And then there was silence for about a minute, and he's like Should we put the radio on?

Yeah.

What's your favorite grass variety?

Yeah, bluegrass. That's a musician song. Kelsey wouldn't get it. Hey, Kels, do we have any, uh—

That's why you called it a musician song.

You know, Kels, you can just leave now. You know the day we declared you president, I regretted it. Like, when we were sitting there, I'm like, this is the worst move. She'll be so— she'll be tripping on her power so much. You were— you actually said that.

I didn't say that, and I said no such thing. Oh, you just said I don't want I want to work for that animal.

That was yours.

Yeah, that's what I said.

And that's how you really feel.

I'm like, she'll be tripping on that power and she'll, she'll just smear everyone. And it started off with me, but it's everyone. Yeah, you are just brutal, authoritarian, angry.

When you do get angry, venomous. Do you get, do you get like snarky? I can see you getting a little snarky. Not snarky, but like snarky, you know what I mean? Like, uh, sarcastic. Absolutely sarcastic. Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, really? You did do that? Yeah, right.

Oh, that's smart.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're too smart for— you're the smartest guy in the room type thing. Tell us about the, uh, nice shout out we got.

Oh, sure.

And pronounce their name, please.

Or HPT Boy 41.

No, you gotta pronounce it.

Hipty Boy.

It's Hipty Boy. That's what it is.

Hipty Boy 41.

Yep.

They write, Mike is an absolute genius and he truly cares about making all businesses profitable. The information he shares is life-changing and I'm thankful for this podcast.

Hey, Hipty Boy, thank you. I appreciate you. Now, if Kelsey wrote this, it'd be like, Mike is an absolute moron. He cares, but he can't speak eloquently whatsoever. He messes up most of his words. I've seen better. That's just Kelsey's compliment. I'm the one who's spiteful here.

I would have never written that.

No, you wouldn't.

For the record.

I know you wouldn't have. I want to thank Nextiva. That's a— I hope he puts this on video when you do your hand gesture like that. Nextiva is a voice over IP phone system, and check them out. We'll tell you more about them in a little bit. Let's get to the meat and potatoes.

Okay.

Jim Kukerl's coming on. Do you know who Jim is? No. Longtime author. You know, when I was getting started, I wrote my first book called The Toilet Paper Entrepreneur, and he was already out there, already writing his books. He's written a— he's a prolific author. He's written a tremendous amount of books. He's got a brand new one out about being unskippable. And we're gonna learn what that means. The book title exactly is Your Journey to Becoming Unskippable in Your Business, Your Life, and Your Career. It is on Amazon right now, extremely highly rated. It is a must-buy book. Now let's get into Jim's background. Jim Cookrell delivers insightful and entertaining content to growth-oriented organizations. The content includes attention-getting marketing, creative branding, and understanding how customers think, react, and most importantly, buy. Jim is one of the top experts in creative marketing and web business building and a 10-time author of books. Wow. 10-time. On marketing, entrepreneurship, motivation, and publishing. With no further ado, I wanna invite and welcome my friend Jim Kukral onto our show.

Welcome, Jim.

Jim, welcome.

Hey, thanks for having me here, guys.

Unskippable.

So I need to clarify, I'm like the less attractive, less successful version of Mike.

The less attractive, less successful, but at least you can speak without stuttering and stumbling over words. What does it mean to be unskippable? I've never heard of that before.

So it's a word I made up, but, uh, it basically is another way of saying outstanding or somebody who just is remarkable, but You know, what I like to say is that, you know, there's two, two types of people in the world. You have unskippable people and businesses and, and skippable people and businesses. And skippable people, you know, they care about their profits first and they care about, you know, their business first. And unskippable people and businesses, they care about building a brand and actually caring about their customers first and things like that. And it's a lot of, uh, things about how people can really stand out in today's world because, you know, there's this argument out there that they say that our attention spans are decreasing. I'm telling you right now, guys, that's not true. The whole goldfish thing, it's not true. Attention spans are not decreasing. Here's what's happening. We're just becoming really, really good at deciding what we want to pay attention to, right? There's this little thing in our brain called the reticular activating system, and it filters out the skippable information and brings in the unskippable information. And that's what we have to figure out as marketers, as entrepreneurs, as small business owners, is how we get through that RAS in someone's brain. And that's what the book's about.

Yeah, I think there's expectation out there. Kelsey's all over Tinder every day. I just see her sitting there going through, just skipping through people. And my perception is Kelsey and others have been trained to just kind of roll through until you find exactly what you're looking for. Isn't that kind of the mentality?

Well, that's exactly what's happening right now. I mean, if you, if you look at the world we're living in right now, everything is skippable. When you're, when you're watching a show on Netflix, what's the first thing that happens as soon as the show ends, right? It's that little red box in the bottom right corner that says you can skip to the next episode in 5 seconds.

That's right.

Because who could wait 5 seconds for the next episode to load, right? But that's exactly what we do. When you're watching a live sporting event or the Oscars or something and a commercial comes on, what's the first thing you do? You pick up your phone and you stare at it, or you run to the bathroom, or you do both of those things at the same time, right? What you're secretly wishing you could do is click the little DVR button so you could skip through the commercials, unless it's a Super Bowl and you actually want to watch them, which is the only time anyone ever wants to watch a commercial. So when you think about that, that's the world we're living in right now. I want you to pay attention to somebody you see on a bus or in a doctor's office or even sitting at a stoplight waiting for the light to change. That's exactly what they're doing. They're scrolling fast through their phone or their tablet and they're looking for things to skip. And what people have to figure out is how are you going to become unskippable because you don't want to be the person who just gets swiped through quickly.

So you can be the weirdo. I see that on Facebook. You scroll down and you just see something that's so unexpected and bizarre, but maybe it discounts the credibility. So as a business, maybe you don't wanna do that. What are ways to force people to take pause on you?

Well, yeah, my first book 10 years ago was called Attention. And Mike, that was the exact argument I made in that book was, you know, 10 years ago, a long time in this digital world we're living in. It was how do you stand out by being the loudest and the funniest and all that stuff. But everything has changed, right? People are looking for reasons to skip your stuff now. Um, to back to my further, my, uh, point from before, if you watch a show on Netflix and you get through and you figure out this is a great show I want to watch, you will sit down for 10 hours straight and watch that show, won't you?

That's correct.

So that proves that our attention spans are not declining. Once we decide what content we want to consume, we will absolutely binge-watch it and consume it voraciously. And part of this whole thing is, one of the lessons in the book is learning how to create joyful experiences with people. Our friend Andrew Davis talks about joyful experiences a lot. And I firmly believe that if you are a business or a brand or a marketer or an entrepreneur, you need to find ways to create joyful experiences. For example, have you ever bought a car, Mike?

Yes.

Okay. What was your experience of going to the car dealership? Was that a joyful experience?

I would say it was marginal. There was excitement in buying the car. There was frustration in I have to talk to my manager about the price and the iterations that had to go through.

Exactly. So it's 3 to 4 hours of your day, right? So now you got to go through, deal with the whole manager shuffle, dog and pony show. Or today you could go to carvana.com and you could pick out a car you want on your phone or on your computer. Then you could get financing with a click of a button. Oh, and then order it. Then they will deliver it to a big giant vending machine thing near your home, which you will drive to. Put a token in, put your code in, and the car will come down and you'll drive it home. So which one—

really, like a vending machine?

Yes. So which one's a more joyful experience? Handling it all?

Carvana sounds amazingly unique and entertaining, right?

I'll give you another example. Um, Peloton. Okay, Peloton is going to be valued at a $4 billion company, and all it is is bicycles in your house where you connect with other people and trainers and ride your bike in your home. Why do— would people want to go to the gym and wait in line and deal with sweaty machines and this and that and have to leave their homes when they could just sit at home and get on their bike and exercise and still have the social interaction that they're looking for? That's a joyful experience, and that's the disruption that is happening with technology in every— in the world we're living in right now. If you can find ways to create joyful experiences you're always going to win out over your competitors. That's just two examples right there.

So, you know what sounds interesting is we had another guest on named Roger Dooley. He talks about this concept of friction. And what he says, the less resistance in achieving the outcome the customer desires, the more likely they are to follow that path. And what I heard in your two examples here is it sounds like they're, they're relatively easy to consume, but there's something more to it. There's an entertainment factor. The big vending machine with Carvana and then Peloton, the fact that you're, you have this video in front of you, you're seeing other people. Is it about the ease of the transaction alone or is there more to it?

Well, it's, there's both of those, right? So people have to come to this realization and everybody listening needs to have this. People don't wanna leave their homes anymore. Everyone wants to blame Amazon for the retail apocalypse, right? But the truth is, is that people have become, gotten an expectation than I could order something on Amazon or someplace else and have it delivered to my home sometimes in less than 2 hours, right? So the expectation has been created. People do not have time to get in a car and drive to the mattress store, right? The, uh, I forget the name of the company, they have mattress stores, they're called the Dreamery, but they don't have salespeople in them. You go there, you touch the mattress, you lay on it, and then you get on your phone and you go home and you buy it. And here's the best part about it.

Huh.

Think about this. Here's the best part about this whole thing. They deliver it to your house. They walk it into your bedroom. They set the thing up. You sleep on it for 100 days. And if you don't like it, you send them an email and you tell them to come get it. And they take it and they come back and they return it for free and refund your money. So you tell me, which one's a more joyful experience, going to the mattress salesperson and dealing with them having to do the dog and pony show with the manager and trying to upsell you to this mattress, or the one where you just go and you order it and they bring it to your house. That's the world we're living in now. There's another company called Hello Technologies. People don't even realize what they do. They— if you buy an iPhone, they will literally bring it to your house with a technician, set it up for you, transfer all your files, teach you how to use it and it's all free. It doesn't cost anything. Oh, so again, right? So again, which is a more joyful experience? And that is what a small business owner needs to think about. I don't care if you own an accounting firm or if you own a tow truck company or, or whatever. You need to figure out how to get past and create joyful experiences because frankly, people will not do business with you much longer if they have a better choice And that's what we talk about in the book.

I'm Googling all these places. This is unbelievable. It's hello technology. So, and it's not just iPhones. It looks like they accept any kind of technology, bring it right to you. So how do we as small business owners, how do we get started on being unskippable?

Well, that's the first part of the concept is first believing that the impossible is possible and understanding that creating joyful experiences is what you need to be thinking about. For far too long, people have got caught up in this whole, I have to create content and ads. You know, at the end of the day, ads are ads. Even content marketing is ads, and people understand that they're ads, and their brain is looking for specific ways to skip those ads. That's the reality of the situation. I talk about something in the book called the Yellow Pages mentality. Now, I'm 48. Mike, I believe you're about as old as I am. The other people here, do you guys remember the Yellow Pages?

They're too young.

Absolutely.

Liars.

Stop it. Liars. They're little babies.

I still have the Yellow Pages. I actually go— I was going through to look for services for a plumber when I need one.

Okay. I'll buy that.

Boom.

But Jim, do you remember Crazy Eddie?

Yes, I do.

Yeah.

I'm going to sell you this TV and this one.

Yeah.

Yeah. You got to act now. They don't know who Crazy Eddie is. I'm like—

Crazy Eddie was great.

So he was great. He was great until he got arrested and put in jail. So tell us about the—

so for the people who are younger, don't remember the Yellow Pages, there were these big, thick, giant yellow books that held all the information in the world before the internet. Yes, the internet did exist before, before you. And if you wanted to order a pizza, you went under the kitchen sink and you grabbed the big 6-pound Yellow Pages and you slapped it on your table and you looked up P for pizza. Or if you wanted to order, uh, get your plumber to work and you looked P for plumber, right? This is how it used to work. It used to be so easy, really. It used to be great because all you had to do was write a check to the Yellow Page company and your ad was in there. And the bigger ad you wrote, if you were in the first position, you got the most calls. Well, guess what? That whole mentality completely went out the window when we came to the internet. And there's still too many small business owners who are under that mentality and And they still take it into the whole internet phase of it. They're like, oh, if I just do more Facebook ads, or if I just do more Twitter, or if I just do more social media. Well, at the end of the day, yes, ads do work. Traditional benefit-based marketing tactics do still work. Coupons, free shipping. Here's the problem. Traditional benefit-based marketing strategies are now expected. They are not the bonus. They are not the differentiator. And number 2, the concept that all you're doing is putting ads out there and creating content marketing is not enough to make you unskippable. You need to, your competition is finding ways to create joyful experiences. They're finding ways to attract a lifetime customer in other ways that you're perhaps not doing because you're so focused on ads.

You know, you talked about, in your book, talking about Yellow Pages, you talk about yellow cars. You said start looking for the yellow cars. What did you mean by that?

Yeah, so I brought this up earlier. This is what they call the reticular activating system.

Yeah.

And I'm not a neuroscientist. I don't know if anyone on the call is a neuroscientist, so I apologize. But basically—

Cassie thinks she is.

Right, right. So in your brain is the reticular activating system. And basically it filters information. There's a reason if you're in a room of 400 people and it's loud and it's a party and your spouse or somebody significant other at the other end of the room yells your name, there's a reason you hear that name. And it's two. Number one, because your brain is conditioned to listen for those consonants. And two, it's coming from a voice that your brain has already determined is a dialect and a sound and a tone that you have already— your brain has already decided to filter in. Okay, and that's the reticular activating system. So the yellow car phenomena is essentially this: if you start looking for yellow cars, you will see them more often. I guarantee you everybody listening to this today is going to see one yellow car in the next couple days because your brain is now activated and you're going to start thinking about yellow cars, and you're going to be open to the concept of seeing yellow cars. So part of what I talk about in the book is not just from a business sense, but also from a mindset sense. The part of the book is how to shift your mindset into believing the impossible is possible and, uh, in having a better career and a better life. Because when you look for the positive, you will see the positive. It sounds so cliché to say these things, but it's absolutely 1,000% true. What neuroscience has has proved this. It's not me, I'm just some schlub from Cleveland. Uh, actual important neuroscientist decided that this was fact. So take this away from this: start looking for yellow cars and also start looking for the positives and the successes and the good things in your life and start skipping the negative things, and you'll be happier.

How do we, uh, instill joyful experiences for our customers with our business?

How do you do it? Well, try to figure out— like, one of the ways that I talked about in the book is, you know, let's say you're an accountant, okay? There's really nothing fun, uh, for a customer about getting your taxes done. You've got to prepare all your stuff, you've got to drive it into your accountant, you've got to hand it to them, and then you don't hear from them for 3 months or 2 months or whatever it is, right? So How does something so boring— sorry to all the accountants listening— how does something so boring, how do you create an unskippable, joyful experience for a customer in that case? So here's my suggestion. All right, so what, you know, understanding the fact that people don't want to leave their homes anymore— they don't, they just don't— people do not want to leave their houses. They will find any possible way to not have to leave their house if they don't have to. You can order a hot— you can buy a house on Amazon. Did you know that? You can buy a small house.

I had no idea.

And have it delivered Amazon Prime. That is the culture we're living in. Walmart is testing out a feature where not only can you buy the groceries online, but you can have them bring it to your house, bring it into your house, and put it in your refrigerator for you, right? Pretty soon they'll be having the feature where the guy will taste it and then tell you if it's any good, and then you can take it back. That's a joke, of course, but that is the culture and the society that we're living in right now. I was at the sub shop the other night and the guy came in to get the Uber Eats sub and it was a $5 sub. And I asked the guy who was picking it up, I go, how much does that cost? He goes, well, the sub is $5, but he's going to be charged $15 to deliver it. And I said, he ordered a $5 sub and he's paying $15 to have it delivered? Yes, because people don't want to leave their houses. This is the fact that we're all saying. So an accountant, back to that. So what if instead, think about this radical concept, what if when your customer said my taxes are ready to be turned in, you said, you know what, I'm gonna come and pick them up. I'm coming to your house, I'm gonna sit down with you, and I'm gonna pick them up, and I'm gonna go back. And then as soon as I filled them out, I created this amazing experience where I sent them a great email, or I called them and said, hey, congratulations Mike, just want to let you know You're getting $1,500 back on your taxes. Isn't that amazing?

Right?

What a wonderful experience that that accountant could create for their customers. Then how about this? How about it's tax pickup day at ABC Accounting and you open, you rent out a restaurant and you serve free pancakes and you tell every one of your customers, we're going to be here all morning. Come down and get free pancakes and pick up your taxes and have a chat with us. Now. So this person who has this great joyful experience with the customer or with the tax firm goes on social media the next day and he sees his friends say, hey, I need to get my taxes done, who would you recommend? So he's either going to get one of two responses. He's going to get the first response, which is, eh, I don't really have a recommendation. Or two, he's going to say, well, I've used these guys before, they're fine. Or three, it's going to be, oh my God, you got to go with Mike Michalowicz Accounting and Tax Service. You know why? Because they came to my house and they picked up my taxes. And then when I got my refund, they sent me this really nice note. I was so excited. Oh, and by the way, then they invited me to pancakes down on that place on 130th Street with the chocolate chip pancakes. It was amazing. It was a great morning. I love that company. Now, which company are you buying from?

Yeah, I mean, the one that they're lauding about, of course, the Mike McCallowitz. And first of all, everyone would buy from a Mike McCallowitz company, right?

Of course.

I would buy from the third option.

Of course I would.

Only if there's pancakes.

Only if there's pancakes though, yeah, and they better be chocolate chip like you said.

But that, that's really where we're headed, right? We have to find ways. I mean, it's, it's the same stuff we've all been talking about and hearing about for years, obviously. But once you start to understand that people want more beyond free shipping and coupons and things like that, then you can start to understand how to take it to the next level. And that's what the book's all about.

You know, Jim, we met, I think this goes back 10 years ago. I remember the launch of your book Attention. I think it's actually one of the best books in the concept of drawing attention. Unskippable has to be on everyone's reading list. Where do people pick up Unskippable, but also your other books?

Yeah, if you just go to beunskippable.com, that takes you straight to my website. It's easier than spelling my name. Beunskippable.com, or just search Unskippable on Amazon. You can grab that book and the other books that I've written. I am— I consider you to be a great author mentor of mine, and I've tried to, tried to build my career around some of the success that you've had, Mike, because I'm a big fan of yours.

Oh, vice versa. I'm a fan of yours. I, you know, I actually just made a note, and Kelsey, could you get Lisa on this? I want to schedule Jim for an interview for the 2022 book. I'm working on, because his concept of our attention's not fading is really something that I want to investigate with you. So Jim, if you're up for that, I'd like to interview you, and thank you for joining us today.

I am. Do we have time for one more quick story?

Oh yeah, jam it in. Bonus, bonus, unskippable.

So in 1975, a young man with the name of Farouk Bulsara wrote a song that essentially became one of the greatest songs in music history. And when it came out, Time magazine called it pretentious and irrelevant. Do you guys know what the name of that song was?

1975, probably a Doors. I don't know.

It was Bohemian Rhapsody, and the artist was Queen and Freddie Mercury. It was lauded as the most horrible song in the world. Now, here's another fun fact to that. The same piano that Freddie Mercury used to record Bohemian Rhapsody is the one that Paul McCartney and the Beatles used to record Hey Jude 7 years earlier. Okay, another transformational song. So the, the plot thickens here. Okay, now here's the thing, it's just a piano. The songs and the artists that changed the world and the, the music they recorded on it were, uh, changed the world because of themselves, not the piano, right? At the time, if you wanted to have get airplay, you couldn't have a song that was really long, but they defied the odds. Hey Jude is 7 and a half minutes long. Bohemian Rhapsody is 5:55, right? What made these songs and these albums unskippable was not a piano, wasn't the tool, wasn't the ad. It was the people who conceived and created that content because they cared about the content, they cared about the vision, and they cared about being unskippable. And that's what you need to think about when you're moving forward and thinking about how to build your brand.

Oh, I love it. I love it. All right, I think maybe Kelsey and I'll do a little duet singing Bohemian Rhapsody in a minute. Jim, thank you so much for joining us.

My pleasure. Thank you.

All right, we'll have Jim's link in our show notes to his personal website, the Jim Kukerl website, but also with the links to his book. It's time for you to be unskippable, so pick up that book. All right, uh, Kelsey. Yes.

That was good.

That was pretty good.

I'm leaving.

This makes Jeremy really uncomfortable.

Yeah, because everybody else is just listening to it. I'm in the middle of it.

Put a gun against his head. Pull the trigger. Now he's dead. Mamma mia. No, I don't know how it goes next. What does it say after that? Oh, we gotta sing that. All right, so I want to thank Nextiva. I mean, talk about musical sources. I don't know if you know this, but, um, you— Nextiva has this technology where you can actually, when people are not listening to you, they push— you push a button called hold, H-O-L-D. It means to play music to them. So they push them, the Nextiva system will play a full concerto, if you wish, of music to the person on the other side while they wait for you. It's called the on-hold feature, only for Nextiva. Amazing.

What will they come out with next?

Check them out, nextiva.com. Seriously, the best voice over IP phone system in the world, plus a NextOS CRM. All right, Kelsey, what'd you learn today? Mamma mia!

Mamma mia! I just really love that Mama, you need to create a joyful experience. And I think singing to people really creates a joyful experience for them, right?

Yeah.

I think we're doing this methodically, Jeremy.

So this experience is so joyful. It's not cringe-worthy.

What was your takeaway?

I was going to say the same thing. Create a joyful experience. Basically step your game up because, you know, the coupons and stuff. It's old hat. Everybody's used to it. That's the standard now.

So yeah. Yeah. I thought there was two mind-blowing comments that I heard. No one wants to leave their home. I thought that was—

Yeah.

And it doesn't.

I think that's super interesting too.

I don't understand this, what's going on, because to me that's so intrusive. I would not want people coming into my house.

That's a good point too.

No matter how convenient the services are. I think it's coming to like a whole— it's like taking it to a whole nother level.

Yeah. I love my home. Like, I look forward to going home. I look forward to being home. I wonder, I don't know if this is true, if homes have become more, I guess, yeah, more homey, right? Yeah. Like, my parents' home, it was, it was very utilitarian and nice, very nicely decorated and so forth.

But my home, we really create spaces now, right?

Yeah. It has like the certain elements. Like, I do have my guitar area where I can do my thing, and I got my football watching area where I can watch my football. So there's these certain elements of my life that football watching area, the living room, the FWA.

This is the television.

You guys, the FWA, you've teamed up with Kelsey. Did you guys have a meeting privately or something?

We did, yeah.

This makes me feel good because I've been trying to stay quiet, so I'm glad that it's not just me.

We should switch every other week. Yeah, like one week you and then the next week.

Yeah, I liked it earlier. I liked it when Kelsey picked on me and I pick on you, J Bone. Yeah, but now it's both you guys picking on me. It's not as fun anymore for some reason.

You're just angry angry at me all the time.

I'm angry at you all the time. Yeah, but it's weird because I— it's like a Bobby Brown situation. Like, I'm angry, but I also love you.

Like, I feel like yelling at you and go, baby, baby, I didn't have a Coke problem.

Bobby Brown didn't mean that. Bobby Brown didn't mean that, baby. Did you just snort, dude? What is up with you? Oh, there's Jeremy.

No, you snorted.

No, it was Jeremy.

You've slandered me so much that I got to get back.

I know, I know. You have to listen. You deserve it. Like, I slandered you. I called you things that no person should call another person. Like, you have the right. Kelsey, I'm like, we'll make you president. And she gets worse.

The powwow.

What was that? My powwow? What'd you say? Oh, that's the word power. Oh, the powwow. Okay. The other thing I like he said is that our attention is not fading because we hear over and over that was—

Yeah, I got it.

We got an interview.

That's so true.

I want to interview him because he says it's just being redirected. And now his example is that binge watching or binge consumption, it's absolutely true. Yeah, you skim through the things you don't want, but the thing you want, you hammer it. Yeah, that's interesting. Um, we want to know what you learned too, so post that in, uh, a little rating and review of the podcast you listen to. And make sure you subscribe, by the way. All right, Kelsey, uh, I think we have a game. Jacob Lone, are you gonna organize it?

It's you guys against each other.

All right. Now, what's the buzzer this time? Last time was the— what do you want it to be this time?

Mamma Mia.

Mamma Mia.

Mamma Mia.

Mamma Mia. Okay, Mamma Mia, Figaro. All right, are you ready?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, I'm listening. Yeah. Okay.

It can be cracked, it can be made, it can be told, it can be played. What is it?

It can be cracked, it can be made, it can be What? Told.

Told.

Jokes. Oh, I'm sorry. Mamma Mia! Jokes.

You got it. You got it.

Jokes.

You sound—

what was that dog? What was it? Scooby-Doo or something?

No, it was something.

Muttly.

Muttly. Yeah. That's what Amy always thinks of.

You do sound like Muttly. All right, give me another one.

You're pretty good at riddles.

I think riddles are your jam. Yeah, maybe. I don't know why.

You ruin everything, Mike. You ruin them all the time.

I know, I know. Give me another one.

All right.

For our listeners at home.

What begins with a T, ends with a T, and has a T in it?

I want to say, if it's not a word, I mean, at first I'm thinking, "Mamma mia!" I'm thinking it's an intersection, but like a T-stop, but—

No, it doesn't end with an N.

Yeah, so that's why it's probably a word.

Yeah.

What's your guess? Because I'm out. Is it the band Toto? No, it ends with a T. Totote?

Begins with a T, ends with a T, and has T in it.

TNT?

No.

T has an N. Start with T, ends with T, has a T in it.

Start— it starts with a T. Yeah, it ends with a T, has a T, and has T in it.

Golf?

Oh no, no, no, it's got to be like, uh, iced tea. No, I don't know. It's a close—

warmer.

Come on, guys. A cup or something. What would hold a tea? Starts with a T. What do you pour tea into? A kettle? What starts with a T? Teapot.

I'm a little—

Teapot.

Teapot.

Teapot.

All right, one last one. There it is. This is getting bad. So Kelsey won, Mike won. It's interesting how you always steal it like the Wheel of Fortune. I give all the answers away, and then Mutley over there is like, it's teapot. All right, it is interesting, isn't it? Freaking Mutley. I almost called you Effing Motley. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to our young listeners. All right, last one.

A monkey, a squirrel, and a bird are racing to the top of a coconut tree. Who will get the banana first? The monkey, the squirrel, or the bird?

Well, mamma mia, they're running to the top of a coconut tree, so there is no banana.

There you go.

No!

Take that, motherfucker!

That was so good.

I didn't think that at all.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. Thank you for doing that, Jeremy, for doing our fill-in. I appreciate that. All right, cows, get us the hell out of here.

Thank you so much for listening.

Don't forget to subscribe and check our YouTube channel. How do you subscribe, Jake?

Yeah, so if you're watching on the YouTube channel, just click the button to receive notifications, a little bell guy there, and subscribe.

And how do you find it? Like, you could type in Mike McCollins and you'll find it.

Yep.

All right, definitely click on the bell. Click on the bell. Sorry, don't kick on it. Did you just blow your nose in your hand, Kelsey?

On the bell.

I You just blew your nose in your hand. Make sure that's on the— the—

it'll be on there. Oh, and if you have any questions for Mike and you want them answered on the air, send an email to askmike@mikemakalitz.com.

All right, we'll see you guys later.

Bye!