What Is Life Like Married To Entrepreneurs? 'Married To Mayhem' #EEP Podcast #272 Krista Michalowicz

Hey guys, there's one thing that you need to go to. Well, there's many things you need to go to, I guess, quite frankly, but there's one thing that I want to see you at. It's at Profit First Live. We host it here at our offices. And if you want to do Profit First right, it's real simple. Come to the event and learn how to do it right. I'm teaching with my colleagues here. All you have to do is go to profitfirstlive.com to sign up. There's dates right around the corner. And, uh, I'd like to see you here. You know, you better get ready to strap on your— was it sweat rag?

Yeah.

Your sweat rag?

I don't even know. Is that like a sweatband, but it's a rag? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, strap on your sweat rag, 'cause I have. I am— I've never been this nervous in my life. My wife is here. I thought it was a great idea to bring her in to talk about—

You've never been this nervous?

Could you stop being an asshole?

Only a little dramatic.

Oh, God.

He should be nervous.

I am nervous, because when we came up with this idea 6 months ago, We said we're gonna do an episode called Married to Mayhem. What's it like to be married to an entrepreneur? I'm like, this is the greatest idea ever. And it's getting closer and closer. And as you look at me over your glasses right now, hun, I am terrified. You're about to discover this terror and so much more on today's episode of Entrepreneurship Elevated.

You don't have to grunt, I know, okay.

What are you like teaming up against me? There you go, babe. What are you doing, Kelsey? Kelsey's whispering in Krista's ear. Oh, you don't have to do that. You don't have to— Krista, you don't have to stand for that anymore. You know that. We're together. We're a team now.

She's finally free. Yeah.

We have the power now.

I'm Mike Michalowicz, and I'm in trouble today. I'm also the author on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. The struggles that entrepreneurs have, those magnificent ups and those— oh my gosh, those deep, deep valleys. We're going to navigate through that together. We're going to make sure that your business is successful. And I'm joined in studio with Kelsey Ayers, my good friend.

Hello, friend. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, TuneIn Radio, Spotify, iHeartRadio, any podcatcher anywhere, but please subscribe.

Have you heard of Podbean, Kelsey?

Yeah.

So we're on Podbean. I was typing in Entrepreneurship Elevated and brrr comes up, it's like Podbean. I never heard that before. And sure enough, it's on Podbean.

Amazing.

Yeah. You know, we want your reviews, your honest reviews, so just, you know, Give us whatever you think we deserve. Make some comments. We appreciate it. Also in studio is Jay Cablone.

Hello.

How you doing, Jay Cablone?

Good.

Yeah, I just got some caramels. I'm great.

Yeah. Oh, should we sing Happy Birthday?

Oh, do you say caramels? What do you say?

Caramel. Caramel.

Yeah, me too. What do you say?

Caramel.

Me too.

Yeah, talking to my caramel. You're already doing the look around.

Caramel.

So real quick. We never did this before. I think we need to sing Happy Birthday to Jeremy.

Oh, come on.

No, no.

I'll play it in the audio.

I'm very good at this.

All right, you sing Happy Birthday.

You ready?

Okay.

Happy birthday to you, Jeremy. Happy birthday to you, Jerabone. Happy birthday, dear Jerashlone. Happy birthday to you.

That was awesome. Thank you, Krista. That was great.

Now, I don't know, hon, if I told you this, Kelsey and I started a little band. It's a duet. We've been traveling around because we're not making money in the business.

Do you know what it's called?

Tell me.

Well, you have to have a stage name, right? I can't go up and say it's Mike McCallow. It's people like, what the hell? So I go by Justin Love. Oh no. And she goes by?

Just Kelsey.

It's Justin Love and Just Kelsey.

That's great. I wish you a lot of luck.

Thank you.

I mean, we don't really need it.

We're good.

We're pretty good. We're that good.

Yeah, we're really good. We're really good.

Yeah.

Um, Kelsey, what you been up to?

Well, I told you what I was up to.

I know, you went to the lake.

I went to the lake. Tomorrow I'm hosting book club at my house again, which I'm really excited about.

Okay. And I want to know how your neck was healed. I told Chris this morning that your neck, like yesterday you couldn't even move.

He thought you were pissed.

Yeah, I did, right? I say first time ever you've been pissed. I'm like, you okay? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, oh, she's really pissed. But how did you heal so quickly? Did you go to a therapeutic?

No, our lovely mom friend Amy brought me a warm compress, so I used that all day and night, and I took a lot of ibuprofen.

Would you say you're 100% recovered?

Plus I did a lot of stretching, stretching.

I was like, stitching?

A lot of stretching. Stretching. And are you recovered 100% now?

No, but it's not sharp, so like if I move, it doesn't, It's not that like piercing pain anymore, it's just a little throbby, you know?

Okay, I get it.

And Jacob Blown, I—

well, I was in the same— I told you, I woke up like— I don't know what I did last week, but I woke up and my neck was twisted like 45 degrees, and I was walking around staring at people sideways all day long.

It was just— and you, and you, hon, you've been like hunching around because your back is so messed up, but you went to a therapeutic massage therapeutic masseuse.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm doing— I'm doing better. I appreciate these chairs though.

These are—

these will really, really help the situation.

You're welcome.

We took them from the local church down the street. They needed these little fold-out chairs. All right, um, do we have any listener mail we want to—

we do recognize? Well, let's see. Meow.

Shout out.

So this shout out comes from Michelle L47. "Mike is not only super smart, but also really entertaining. I really enjoy all the topics he covers and his passion for helping business owners get out of or stay out of entrepreneurial poverty.

Win-win." Nice, Michelle L. Good job, Mike. L47.

Thanks, Michelle.

I wonder why people put numbers. I know you have to because there's another Michelle L., right? But do people put in sequence? Like, do you do Michelle L., like, oh, That's what you're thinking? Do I do 1, 2, and I keep going up to 47, or do you think there's a significance?

My assumption is they pick numbers that are relevant to them.

Significant, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like she has 47 children, maybe.

That's logical.

Yeah, okay.

I do want to thank our corporate partner, Nextiva, who makes this show a reality. You know, hun, I got invited to be on their board. Did I tell you that?

I stopped listening.

That's what I'm going to do from now on.

I think I have already done that.

Once you reach 10 times, I'm done.

I had breakfast with my parents this morning. I'm like, because my My father's 92, he's on the verge of 92. The guy is sharp, but I hope he forgets these things, 'cause I just like saying it. Like, hey, I'm going to Phoenix tonight, I'm flying out. They're like, oh yeah, 'cause you're on the board of NextEve. I'm like, yeah. 'Cause I wanted to say it again.

Cut you off.

Yeah.

Like, yes, Mike, we get it.

My mother, she can't stop talking. She's even worse than me, believe it or not. She was eating cereal and could not, she was choking 'cause she was talking, and she kept on shoving more cereal in and started talking more. I'm like, Mom, just stop. Like, you're gonna kill yourself.

Ah, ah, ah, ah.

So guess who's in studio today? It's my wife. I love the bio. Like, there's supposed to be a bio for everyone. It just says Mike's wife. So her name is Krista Michalowicz. She has been a stay-at-home mom. She's worked in the childcare arena for years, and she was also, she's done a keynote or two on this concept of married to mayhem. And one thing she's been a stalwart in—

I thought you were gonna say Star Wars.

Now I'm listening. A stalwart in is being married to an entrepreneur. So what we're gonna discuss today is what that journey has been like.

I have to look up stalwart.

Stalwart means like that you've been consistently doing something. You're always there. You're always present. And the one— it says there's one unique thing about her. She said in her mind she is an amazing air drummer?

In my mind— and not air drummer, drummer. Oh, in my mind, I kind of believe I'd be an amazing drummer.

What band would you play for? Do you have any, like, interest in any kind of music?

I don't take it that far. I'm not insane. I'm just saying, like, in my mind, I feel in my heart I'd be an amazing drummer.

So we're driving down the highway, and you know, truckers throw out, uh, I do not know any truckers, no. No, you know, they throw out— truckers throw out the window, they throw out those Gatorade bottles. And so you had the funniest comment about that, hun. Share it.

Oh, God. All right, this was years ago, but I saw a container, a plastic container filled with a very deep gold liquid on the side of the highway, and I just thought and said out loud my thought, I'm concerned about that driver's health. Right?

It was awesome. He's dehydrated.

Yeah, he needs to stop and take a break.

Yeah, that guy needs more water intake is what she said. I thought it was all about the litter, but she's like, no, it's really his dehydration.

Very thoughtful.

So, just let's talk about what it's like to be married to an entrepreneur as candidly as you can, knowing that tonight we have to have dinner together. You know, what's the unexpected stuff that still happens? We've been married now for 20-plus years.

I just opened a can of wine.

Are you seriously drinking wine? Yeah.

Oh, they're doing canned wine now.

Yeah.

That was from It's Always Sunny.

I thought if this got boring, we could do a taste test. I have another one.

Oh, that's so great.

This is not bad.

And it is, uh, it's 11 in the morning, just everyone knows.

No, it's almost 5 o'clock.

So what's the unexpected stuff still? Like, we've been married for 20+ years. You think you know everything about entrepreneurship, but is there still stuff that kind of blindsides you when it comes to entrepreneurship, being married to one?

Well, I'm not an expert. I'm only an expert in you.

Okay, touche.

So you are constantly evolving and changing. It's not like you started one thing and then you just stuck with that. For the past 23 years. So yeah, you're always changing, you're always doing something new, your mind's always going, and sometimes it still catches me how, uh, far away you can be.

So what does that mean, far away?

Physically and mentally.

Okay, so explain that, because, you know, a lot of our listeners are the entrepreneurs, they're not the spouse, but they don't know what the spouse is experiencing.

Oh, I bet they do.

They don't know the spouse experiencing, I don't think.

I'm sure it's been told to them.

Yes, true.

Um, well, I think it's not for everyone. Yeah, I think it's not always easy, but it also can be really fun and spontaneous, but also isolating at times, lonely sometimes. As a parent, you go through a lot of things alone.

Yeah, it's like a single— single parenting at times, right?

Times.

And is it single parenting because because I'm traveling so much, or is it single parenting because even when I'm home my mind is working? Is it both?

Yeah, sometimes both.

Yeah. So, what, I've started, I think, I don't know, 4 or 5 businesses since we've been married, or as a woman.

I don't count.

You don't count?

Anymore.

But what's it like when you hear it, I'm starting a new business?

Um, well, first of all, I trust you, and I believe in you, and you, are not, um, going into things willy-nilly. So if you're starting a new business, that's one thing, but usually it's writing books.

Oh, now it is.

Yeah.

But back then it was like, uh, remember we had the computer company first, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna start a computer crime investigation business, which was unheard of.

So I didn't even know what you're talking about.

We were watching CSI on TV, or you were.

I know, I was like, where were you? I don't remember.

I don't watch TV.

Um, Well, that was very new. That was not a thing we knew a lot about. It was very exciting and a sexy kind of line of work. And it took off like wildfire. So I didn't really have a lot of time to second-guess you. And I had very small children, so I wasn't always thinking about you.

Yeah. Oh, settle. Settle. Is it taking her to swig your wine?

Oh, the footsie.

We got some Band-Aids out there.

Yeah, right. The first, the first cut's been dug or sliced or whatever you do.

I had a question that I wanted to get your perspective.

Yeah, yeah.

And hers on this. Yeah. So do you feel you, do you feel you have more control of your schedule or less to do what you want? And then the same to you.

That's a great question. So I think it's transition. So I would say in the first 10 or 15 years of business, I thought I had no control. and the only way— so this is my perspective— the only way to feed our family is I gotta work longer and harder. Like, that was totally my belief. So I was working through the nights.

I was—

that's when I remember, Barry and I started that business together.

Yes, the pager would go off in the middle of the night.

Constantly. And I would get dispatched to a client, but I was making money. In the last— it's really been the last 3 years, I've taken more vacation time in my life than I ever have. Yet there's still this sensation that I'm not around, even though I took a 4-week vacation, we hung out at the house, We just did Disney, all these things, but it still feels like I'm constantly going, you know? What's your perspective?

Yeah, you are constantly going, but I would say that I think what I miss sometimes is consistency.

Yeah, that's a big one. Yeah, because there's a lack of predictability, right?

There's a lack of getting used to any kind of schedule where I would wanna like, Um, maybe like, I feel that if you're home, I need to be home instead of like making plans or something because, because you're going to be gone again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I can't— I'm not always available for my friends, say. Yeah, because I would rather— I would rather be with you knowing that you're going to leave again, right? But like, if you're home for a couple weeks at a time, then it's easier. So I can see how when you're in a regular schedule, that's different. But for us It depends how long you've been gone. You've been working on another book, so you've been writing a lot, and your mind is otherwise occupied a lot, plus everything else you do. So I definitely feel like, um, if you're gonna be around, I wanna be around.

So one thing we're doing, so we're gonna be empty nesters this year officially. Kelsey's finally moving out of the house.

Don't go!

It's really hard on me. I don't know why you say it so flippantly.

I know, I know. We'll miss you.

We'll miss you.

So one thing you're going to start doing is start traveling with me, hon.

Um, now and then.

Now, selectively, selectively, right? So I think I had a gig in South Dakota. I called you, I'm like, hey, I'm going to South.

No offense, you said Buffalo.

That was last week. I said, hey, let's go to Buffalo.

I'm okay.

No, you didn't say no offense to Buffalo. No, no, because your response was, who the hell goes to Buffalo? I think I am.

Um, I know you said, do you want to go to Buffalo?

And I answered back, does anyone?

Yeah, that's right, that's right.

No offense to Buffalo.

No offense. In the winter, I get it, but we're going in the summer. How do you think that will affect you? Does it— because that's— now we're traveling together, but does that bring consistency, or it's out of the home element, so maybe the routine's not there?

Well, I'm not used to it yet.

Yeah, of course.

You know, right now it's sort of, oh, all the kids are adults, quote unquote adults, and I have a different kind of freedom. I'm not beholden to the public school system, right, for my whereabouts. I don't, you know, need to be there in case there's an emergency, in that the children can all sign for themselves. Yeah, you know, I don't know, it's things like that that I worry about. So that I have that freedom coming up, I'm excited about it. Yeah, I'm excited.

Your friends—

I'll probably get bored of it though.

Okay, so you're, uh, some of your friends have entrepreneurial spouses? Is that true?

Sure.

Do you ever have confab with them about what it's like to be married to an entrepreneur?

Do you use words like confab when you talk about that?

Oh, what a teabag. I'm so happy we kicked you out.

I gotta look up a lot of words.

I just read a dictionary before I got on here. I did, I did.

Let me get my—

It's confabulation in case you really want the full word.

My canned wine here.

Commissary, right? It's commissary.

It could be commissary. Yeah, it could be commissary.

Do you chat? Can we just say, do you chat?

Can we just say ass, Kelsey?

Um, I— nobody is married to anybody just exactly like what you do though, so it's not, um— I hear a lot of, I don't know how you do it, to you. Yeah, from who is it?

Why are you laughing?

You don't need to know, I don't give up my sources.

Okay, is there a level of like the heart grows fonder because there's that kind of level of unpredictability? So when you are together, you're kind of cherishing that time a little bit more?

There's definitely that. I don't ever feel bored of Mike being around. I do get used to him being gone, and we miss each other, and we communicate in that way. So I definitely feel, like, loved when he's gone. I feel his attention as much as he can. But I think sometimes it's a problem with when he, he's been gone a lot and he comes back, and we all have our own schedule. We all— everything goes on a kind of a, you know, a certain road. And then he walks in the door, and it's like a little adjustment period of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, when you were gone and the kids were little, then it was that kind of mayhem, but it was joyous and exciting and fun. And I would let them stay up a little later so they could jump all over Dad and all that kind of stuff, or he'd pop in for homework and You know, I think that Mike always did a great job of connecting with his kids. They never felt lonely for him. They never felt like neglected because he was gone so much, because when he was with them, he was so plugged into them. And I always say, like, making eye contact with your kids and listening to them and play what they want to play. And Mike was always very good at that. So I always admired how the kids might not see him for days or longer at times, but they were never sad. They were never acting out for attention. They always felt, I don't know, somehow that they had 100% of him. And I think that's so important. I don't know if everybody has that.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And you also have friends with spouses with regular jobs, right? How, how's their— how are their lives different from your perception? Than the life that you're living?

I think they might get a little bit, uh, they're used to each other.

Oh really? So okay, that's on the downside. Tired of it?

Yeah, I guess it depends on your own really. Like, I don't know everybody's relationship, but, um, there seems to be a little bit more of a— I hear people, and I'm sure they're joking, but you hear people out, you know, oh, I don't tell him where I'm going, or I don't tell her where I'm going. She doesn't need— they're joking, but they they know where the other one's at all the time. Like, you know, whenever time they walk through the door, it's like a routine.

Yeah.

So we, we don't have that.

No, that's my fears for some people's marriages. They become complacent. Yeah, don't use big words, complacent. Kelsey will get thrown off. No, but no, they, they become like roommates is almost it, right? Well, some people, I don't know what goes into that, but that may not be the job, that could just be the, the personalities, right?

Well, yeah, and I don't know that everybody loves their job. Yeah, you know, I don't know that everyone is in love and excited by their job. I suspect a lot of people are not. That's what I hear.

Yeah, so I wonder if they bring home— those spouses bring home a— not animosity, but if they don't like their job, that probably translates into how they carry themselves in their relationship, right?

Right. You're not— they're not happy, they're not fulfilled. They feel trapped. I think some people feel that way, and I think that, of course, it will leak into their relationship.

If you could make like the perfect entrepreneur for a spouse, like the scenario, what—

You'd build Mike, right?

A manbot?

Thanks, Kelsey. That was very complimentary if it wasn't said so facetiously. I appreciate that.

I mean, where are you going with this question?

What I'm thinking is like, is it achievable for an entrepreneur to do what they feel called to do, but also to be great— greatly available in their relationship.

Do you feel like you as the entrepreneur have the power to, you know, create a different quality of life at home?

And—

or is this more like your, your own drive, you know?

Yeah, it's a great question.

With your own temperature.

Yeah. So Today I see there's more— I have more control than I really ever thought I did. Secondly, I do appreciate I have an addiction to work. Like, I love— I cannot wait to come in the morning and, and work. Um, and there's always that one more thing I can do, which it's almost an endorphin release. Oh, I can get this done. I can still get this done. So there, there's an addiction component. But, you know, I like being home. I, I like I like having dinner with my wife and my kids. We're lucky 'cause our kids, while they're empty, while we're theoretically empty nesters, the nest is still full.

It's very full.

We have more freaking people living in our house today than we ever have.

Well, that is one thing that I'm a little shocked by in our life. Like, honestly, I did not think I would be cooking this much. I did not think our grocery bill would be what it is.

It's ridiculous.

I know, I think we have done something very right Or very wrong.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, so.

We'll see in another 20 years if they're still there to have them all.

Having said that, I love our kids. It's so fun. Obviously, I love them, but I like them. I mean, obviously everyone's annoying at times, um, but they are nice, fun, funny people, and there's a lot of joking around in our house. And I love moving through this process of raising children and having them become young adults. And how much fun we have with them. So it is sometimes like, boy, I'd like to be alone for more than an hour.

Yeah.

But at the other, you know, the other side of it is they are, they're fun. I'm proud of them, and we all enjoy each other very much.

You know, from my entrepreneurial perspective, I missed a lot of things with the kids growing up. I, I missed the equivalent of the first footsteps type thing. But the fact that they're still around, I'm still able to live those moments. So those regrets, maybe they'll set in for me one day, but they're not there right now. I'm like, oh, I can still see my kids. I have dinner with, you know, I have dinner at home now twice, 3 times a week, which is for me is like a miracle. Growing up, I don't think I was ever home.

You were home.

It just doesn't feel like I wanted you to expand on that because what Krista said was she didn't feel like the kids ever —felt like you were not around. So what was your perspective on that as you were going through it? You know, so—

are you doing some loud whispering?

I'm just also reviewing the wine. Oh, give us— can I shout out the name?

Yeah, give us a commercial break. Okay. Oh, wait, wait, wait, I gotta hit the sound for it, because this is by law, you have to do this. Okay. Maybe they could become a sponsor.

New sponsor. So here's our new sponsor.

I would be so happy.

I wish that the tequila companies would be our sponsor.

Alright, then we'll go to Jeremy's question.

I just want to say that this This particular winery also won our family wine tasting, and it was—

which was earlier this morning, by the way.

It was one of the least expensive wines. It is a Fourteen Hands winery. It has pictures of horses on the bottles and/or cans. So this is the Bubbles, and it's a white, but it has a little bubble to it. It's really nice, floral and aromatic with vibrant bubbles, and it's true. It's good. It's nice. I just wanted to show that. Fourteen Hands.

So, uh, Back to your question, so my perspective with the kids.

Like while you were going through that process, because I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs listening probably wanna hear your side of it because they're the ones going through it thinking like, oh, I'm abandoning, I'm not doing enough.

Yeah, I felt a little bit of that, but you know, I coached their sports, I did all those things, but I think the, what I sacrificed was, Krista, time with my wife, and, and sleep. And, uh, because, you know, here, here's my sense of responsibility. I, I'm, I manage our home finances also. So I see the bills coming in and go, and the money going out, and I'm like, I got to make more money. I gotta make more money. And we made a decision for Krista as much as possible not to work. There was a couple times it was so tight, I'm like, we need you to do some work to just cover the grocery bills. And Krista went back there. Now, you know, with young little kids, You were taking Tyler to, you know, he was in preschool and you were taking him with you on work. So I didn't feel guilt because I'm like, if I don't do this, you know, we got to keep on downsizing. There wasn't much more to go down. And then there was a period to remember. Of course, I remember this. After I sold the forensics company, you know, we were on a high ride and then all that money vanished very quickly. The new business was a total flop. Right, true story. Yeah. And so now, and remember, February 14th, Valentine's Day, I come home, I tell the kids, everyone, like, we're out of money, we're done. And now we sit down and we left the house, we couldn't afford anymore, we moved into a friend's house, effectively, um, a discount, uh, same town, thank God. But Krista's friend, they were going, uh, to do work in Europe, I think, for a year or two, unless— take the house from them, rent it at a very discounted price. We would— we had no place else that we could And we sat down and said, you know, the next step is we have to move in with either your parents, Christa's parents, or my parents. And that, you know, we were in our—

this is not long ago.

Nothing will motivate you to work your ass off, especially after you meet my mom. So it was, well, we were in our late 30s, early 40s. No, because that— no, we were in our—

yeah, we were in our 30s, late 30s.

But, you know, late 30s, you think you'll start getting your, your, your feet under you. There's a saying that your 20s and 30s are for learning, your 40s and 50s are for earning. And now we're starting to enter our 40s, and it's like we have the least money we've ever had. That was tough, right?

Yeah, but you learned a lot, right?

We learned— oh, we're learning so much. I remember us saying that a lot. Oh, look, another lesson. Yeah, we did, but we did learn a lot. The kids learned a lot. We came out of it. Yeah. But it was, yeah, it was, but I don't know, I think I always felt, I always felt that we were gonna be okay. I was mostly afraid of having to live with parents.

Yeah, but at one point I remember you saying to me, 'cause this is for the entrepreneur, this is the knife to the chest, and it was not said to attack, but it was just, you just said it, you said, Mike, I think you need to get a job. And for an entrepreneur to hear get a job, it's like, ugh. I don't know why it's so painful for us, and it was the right logical thing to do was for me to get a job, but, and I looked, but I didn't really look. I'm like, I gotta make something successful, man.

Well, I mean, for a period of time you were contracted to work for—

Was that through Larry? Is that what we're talking about? Robert Half.

Oh yeah, well that was, yeah. And that was a good lesson for me.

Oh, you can't say Robert Half anymore, please. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, they sucked for us. They sucked for us. Um, but yeah, that was a year of you being probably the most miserable I'd ever seen you. Um, it was a soul-crushing commute into the city at a desk with busy work, which I think it was almost like a type of prison for you. And we did walk away after some conversations. You walked away from it with my blessing. And there was some money left behind because you just couldn't live like that. Yeah. And I didn't want you living like that. So we just— if we have to move in with our parents for a year, or we have to downsize, whatever. Like, it would be hard to have downsized more, but right, a van, a van down by the river.

Yeah, I mean, we really downsized. So just to be fully integral, I got fired from that job. Like, so the walk away was like— I was— okay, you weren't refusing to really work.

Yeah, they wanted you to climb their ladder like, this is gonna be great. You're like, I don't like the ladder.

Yeah, so yeah, yeah, so I was a schmo at the job, so I got fired just to be integral within that. But Robert Haskell—

sorry, I can see if you— if like the decision was made where it's like, okay, you got to get a job, I can see you still being like kind of an entrepreneur by getting a job, by being like a consultant or something. I cannot see you taking like a standard, hey, you're gonna sit at this office. Like, I feel like you would go nuts within like a week and just like— Nuts.

Lose your mind. Yeah, and that's— yeah.

He was losing his mind.

Because you're handcuffed and you're too— I think you're too creative. You're just too creative or wild.

Yeah, and that's what Robert Half was. So they acquired our company and listen, the experience was hard. It gave us exposure and money that I've never even imagined. Remember, they're flying us out to California and these these different meetings out there and we were living high on the hog and then the collapse came. It's my own fault for the financial struggles we had. But then when we hit rock bottom, you know, for us financially, we had no car, we only had one beat-up blue Dodge Durango rust bucket we bought somewhere in Newark, remember that? Yes, I do. So we're going around like, listen, Newark isn't a bad city, it has bad parts though, right? And so we're in a difficult area. Like really bad parts.

I felt like we were stealing it. Yeah. I mean, it was so like, almost like a covert mission.

Yeah, like, she had one of our kids on your hip. I think Tyler was running around, and I think Jake was like 6 years old at the time, wasn't he? Yes. Yeah. And I'm paying cash.

I just don't remember. Tyler was on your hip?

Yeah, Tyler, you know, he was already 6 feet tall. No, Tyler was running around too.

But I was scared.

It was new. You had a baby on the hip, you had this cigarette in the other hand, and, you know, we're paying cash for this car. And we pull out of it. But that became the turning point, I think. I think what I realized, hon, I'm curious about you, is regardless of how much income we make or however successful we are, like, the happiness quotient didn't change. I think, we look back at our lives, and I think I'm just as happy then as I am today.

We were very happy in our apartment in Hackettstown, New Jersey. But always happy. We were very, yeah, because, Yeah. That's the irony. Right, I don't wanna say that money is not bringing you happiness. I think it makes you more of what you are. But I think that— A person drinks wine is more of a person. I think 14— May I just? No. Yeah, yeah. Bubbles. I think that we had some very hard times, and I think we had some scary times. Yeah. Any time, especially when you have kids, your mind goes to the worst case scenario, and it's terrifying. Yeah. Um, thinking you're gonna have to move your 3 kids and your dog in with parents— terrifying. Yeah. But at the same time, I think our connection as a couple is very strong. Yeah. I think I'm immensely patient. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, you didn't want to— did you see the look of fear immediately on his face? I'm in trouble now. But I think that we are good communicators in general. So I think that going through hard times, as long as you can keep that communication thing going where you're not berating or belittling, even when you're scared, even when you don't like certain decisions that were made.

You know, one thing I thought was very helpful was a— I don't know who came up with this, but we started doing— we call it couch time. Can you share what that was?

Yeah, I came up with that. [LAUGHTER] I love it. Um, well, we didn't really have money for dates, you know. The money, the money had to go to very specific and, uh, right, needed areas. And so for us, it was what can we do to spend quality time together where we're both feeling like we're being heard and we're, we're feeling like we're doing something. And so we came up with a few areas. We had to do grocery shopping. If you were around on a weekend, we'd do that together. Leave— kids were old enough to leave them home with the oldest, and we would go grocery shopping for a couple hours, get a cup of coffee. Um, at night, glass of bubbles and the couch, and we would tell the kids, including the dog, like, everybody out. This is our time.

And the big thing, there was no TV in that room. And we said no phones. So we put the phones down, no TV, and it's interesting where your conversation just goes. And then recently we just bought, I had a fun time, we bought that box of questions.

Yeah, that's great.

So just about a week or two ago, we were just, Chris and I were sitting, and the routine's always like, how was your day, how was your day? The usual conversation. And then we pulled out this little box and asked these questions, and you start having pretty deep conversations. And there's surface-level questions like, what was your first car, or whatever, but you go down these, interesting discussion paths because you're also learning things you didn't necessarily know.

I know, you know, and we're 23 years and we didn't— you know, there's things that we've learned just through this little box of questions. We have one on the dining room table and we have one on the coffee table in the TV room, and it's great. Yeah, come over, the kid or the kids bust out some questions and everybody likes talking about themselves. So it's really fun.

It was, it was in college, right, that you met in college? Who's Chris and I? Yeah, right after— no, you and your, your husband. Yeah, of course. Like, what?

I'm so slow. Yes, it was. Yes, it was.

I met a lot of people in college.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. No, but Chris went back to college once. I was like, that was a mistake.

Was it? So you remember that?

It's horrible. The first time? Yeah, yeah, it was bad. That was bad. Well, it was a little too close to Mike having just left.

I just left college. I'm like, hey, why don't you come back to Virginia Tech and check it out?

I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah, it was a mistake.

It was our biggest fight.

But we've gone— well, I don't even think I fought. I just sat there and got beat up.

Just as you should have.

Yeah, yeah. But, uh, no, we've been back there many times.

What were we saying, Jeremy? No, like, I was just curious, like, when, like, when you actually met, your first, the first meeting.

Yeah, yeah. What?

He's a little— he's so nervous right now. Jeremy, let me, let me take this, uh, wine in hand. Um, we met at a bar Fridays. Yeah, in the happy hour food part of the bar. So you were sitting at the bar. Do you want me to tell you how you first met me? Yeah, I remember before you thought I was—

yeah, I still think—

do you want a rag, right? Do you want to get a rag? I'm like, so afraid.

We need a different word. I don't like that. Sweat rag is not good. Oh, the listeners will agree.

You don't like it as a pet name now? So, hey, hi, I'll call you sweat rag. Hey, sweat rag.

No, I don't, I don't like that.

Yeah, no, we met through mutual friends. Uh, we were at, I was at TGI Fridays and she showed up. Uh, our friend, our mutual friends had gotten married and, um, met Krista, stalked her, you know, not real stalking, not aggressively, but sweet, just like, wow, she's beautiful. And, uh, I asked and she's like, oh, I don't know if you were not, you were not interested or you were dating someone or whatever. And so I'm like, oh, Okay, but I kept her in my mind for a good year, year and a half, and then one day I got a call from my friend like, "Oh, Krista noticed you at a party. She's interested in meeting you," or whatever, and I had a girlfriend at the time. So I'm like, "Oh, okay." And then that relationship went by the wayside. Thank God. As I knew it would. 'Cause Krista made a nasty phone call in the middle of the night. And then we met for reals at the same couple, these mutual couple, they had a little party at their house, we met. Saw her there, and then I asked her out. Not there at the party, I was too afraid. But I asked you out, I called you on the phone, and she said, "Okay." First date, first date. You ever see The Handmaid's Tale? Yeah. She wore that outfit. Handmaid's Tale, by the way. Handmaid's Tale. Handmaid.

They made lots of hands that year. Well, handsy maids. I can touch this.

Okay. He's not even drinking the can of wine. So she wore that outfit basically, but two copies of it, one on top of the other, just make sure there was nothing.

I needed to send the right message.

So we went to this thing, we went to the Bomb Squad. There was a— I don't know if you know the Bomb Squad. There was an old restaurant, 94th Bomb Group. Yep, Bomb Group, that's right. Old restaurant. And then about 5 years ago, that was our first date there, I said about 5 years ago, like, let's go back to where we had our first date. The place is gone. They leveled it.

It's like, it looks like it's been bombed.

The Bomb Squad got bombed. So, hon, before we wrap things up, the last question is, what's the future look like for you being married to an entrepreneur?

Uh, any entrepreneur, or—

yeah, good question. Yeah, your choice.

I would like to be married to you. Okay. And I would like more of what we're doing.

You get the hallelujah button. All right, hon, well, thank you for joining us today, and don't leave because we'll have more stuff coming up. We have a fun trivia game we're gonna do in just a minute. Um, But here's what I do, Kelsey. We got to recap what we learned. I don't know if I want to do that. We have— do we have listener mail that I have to answer? We do. Okay, and then we'll do a couple other fun things. So let's do that in just a second after I push this button. Kelsey, it's Nextiva who makes the show a reality. And if you want a voice over IP phone system, my friends, or even if you don't, call Nextiva. Call for any reason. Tell Mike sent you, you get 10% off nothing.

Tell him that he's on the board of advisors.

Oh yeah, say I know.

He'll be really impressed with that.

Yeah, that'd be funny. Call Nextiva and say, I know a board member. They'll be like, you do? You'll say Mike Michalis. They'll be like, what? Who? Because it's an advisory board, they don't record who's on the board.

They have cool baseball hats too.

And they have cool, yeah, we have all their gear at our house. Merch. Merch. They have cool merch. So Nextiva, voice over IP phone system. They're exceptional in what they do. Um, Kelsey, what's our listener— oh no, what did you take away from today? That was smooth. I know. What's our listener takeaway from today? I love this.

I feel like I could sit and listen to this all day long. Really? Yeah. I wish a little bit more juicy tidbits came out, but that's okay. Yeah. All you need to do is ask.

What? We still got time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna do a newlywed type game. Um, so anything specific you want to share?

Yeah, I mean, I love when Chris has said the lack of consistency is more of the issue than even the distance Um, and I think that that's just really reflective of human nature, right? Like we want our routines. We want to be able to know what to expect. Um, and I think it's nice that you verbalize that because I think that's a super smart point.

Yeah, I like that. What'd you learn, Jay Shlone?

There is a, there's a quote and I can't remember who said it, but this whole conversation reminded me, uh, you can't have a great— there's a great woman behind every great man. And, and I thought that because as a, as a wife, like, it sounds like you two were very trustworthy and supportive going through the hard times together. Yeah. And I think that, that like for anybody who's an entrepreneur, like you have to have that or otherwise you're not going to, you're going to make it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it was like the consistency, but also what I heard was the flip side is she started talking about her friends and the routine. Mm-hmm. Right, so you can get too much routine, but you can also have too much of a lack of consistency. So there's like this, this balance, right? It can go too far. Yeah. And I love her. That's the other part.

Yeah. I love her. I love you.

I love her a lot. All right, we got a game. Jake Blown.

Okay, so you're gonna need your little pad. Sorry. You got your Profit First pad over there?

Yep. Okay, do you have your pad? Do you have a pad?

I, I, that's personal. Okay.

So, so this is, uh, basically the newlywed game, but it's, you're not newlyweds. No. Well, some ways we are. All right. So I guess I'll start. You answered some of these questions already. Uh, so I'm going to skip those. I'm going to go to the good ones here. Uh oh. Okay. This is directed towards Krista about Mike. Oh, good. What is his most irritating habit?

Throat clearing. Oh, you're gonna write down—

oh, sorry, is it throat clearing?

Wait, next question. Sorry, it's— I'm already sweating, it irritates me so much. Sorry, next one.

So when does— when does he throat clear? Like, all the time?

I never write it down or answer it. I never—

yeah, yeah, just, just answer.

When doesn't he? It feels aggressive.

What did you think it was, Mike? Did you— were you—

did you say that?

Um, no, I, I, he didn't have time to think.

Yeah, I'm like, is throat clearing? She, she thrusts the, the answer down. So I, I would have said throat clearing now, but I don't know. I don't know. I'm terrified. When I lay down, I clear my throat a lot. When I stand up, it's less. Oh, that's what I thought. Maybe not. Okay, okay. This is, this is the worst. Now we're playing.

Exactly. Thanks, Jeremy.

This is great. Sorry. Um, is it hot in here? All right, the worst Worst date together. Worst date together? Yeah, just, I mean, even if you wrote down like just the, uh, the place. Uh, worst date together. Is that too, is that too hard of a question?

No, no, you have all good dates. Well, okay, okay, I got, I wrote mine down. No, we don't have all good dates. Done.

You don't have to fold it.

Oh, now you have to burn it.

Yeah.

What would you, what would you say, Krista?

Well, I guess I would— honestly, I can't really think of a bad date, but I would go back to Virginia Tech.

What'd you write down, Mike?

Tonight. Tonight will be the worst date ever. Um, and the second one was Virginia Tech. Yeah, yeah, Virginia Tech. That was a bad date. That was I'm still scared of that moment. You should be. Yeah.

All right. Who is a bigger baby when they are sick?

Oh, come on. Everybody knows the answer to this. Yeah.

Good question, though. You ready? Oh, look at that. Me. Yeah. What'd she write, him? Yeah. Oh, me. What do you do? I just, I don't like to be sick. No, I just, you know.

Just lay in bed and complain.

Yeah, no, I don't even.

Well, first of all, I will say this, Mike is almost never sick. And in 23 years, he has had one fever, one stomach bug, and that's through 3 kids. And it is so memorable to me that I think I'd kill you before I would go through it again. Yeah, I put you out of your misery. It's for your own— yeah, for you.

But euthanize me. Euthanize me.

Okay, I agree. Oh yeah, sorry, I'd put you down gently.

Yeah. Okay, I thought—

thank you. With a pillow.

That's a good question. How would you kill each other? You would suffocate. It was so horrific.

We only got about another minute or two, so let's do one more, one 2 more questions.

Okay, um, so this is towards Christopher. Mike, favorite body part? Jeremy. Hey, you gotta spice it up a little bit.

Yeah, wait, this is me?

Yeah, well, you're answering about Mike, favorite body part, and he's gonna guess what he thinks you're gonna say. His favorite?

Oh no, my favorite body part. Oh, I can do hers. Yeah, I know, I felt—

it felt aggressive from here. All right, I got my answer. Your favorite body part of mine?

Honestly, there's so many.

Oh, come on, just write one, hurry up. What time's going?

His beard.

Oh, look at that, look at that. Arms, I put arms.

Oh, that's what I was gonna guess. I do like your forearms. Yeah, when we first met, you said you noticed my arms.

Yeah. So that's what I thought.

All right, one more question. This is an all-play, so you answer it from what you think she's gonna answer for you. Okay. And then Right?

So what will Kristen say for me and what would I say for you?

For you. Yeah. Um, so who would you cast in a movie to play your spouse?

It's a horrible question.

Why? Because I don't know any actresses. I know the one that looks like you. Um, but can I— I only can think of one actress right now and it's not who I'd cast you for.

Because you can literally think of one?

Actually, I know nothing about movies.

It's not that Yeah, it's not her.

What the heck is her name? I can picture her face.

Too bad I can't picture it too.

Just say it. What show though? Or movie?

Oh, this is a woman, you know, she was an actress from the '80s. You know who I would choose?

I think he said who I would do.

That's what I heard. My favorite, 'cause I only know one movie ever, it's Terminator 2. Oh, Linda Hamilton.

You better say Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Linda Hamilton. I would choose Linda Hamilton from that generation. She was a tough chick.

I do not think you would like that tough of a chick. You would just sit in a corner.

First of all, I'm casting you in a movie. This is not like I'm dating her.

I don't think he understands the question. Who would you cast?

No, he said cast in a movie.

To play you? Yeah. Gerard Butler.

Oh! I don't know who that is.

What? 300. Oh, he doesn't know. He does not know what you're talking about.

Thank you. Do you not know? For real?

I really have no idea.

It would be good for me. Let's just put it to that.

You answered who you wanted. It would be good for you. It's casting in a movie. It's not who you're gonna date. Oh, damn it. See, you misunderstood it.

I misunderstood it. Thank you.

I didn't say it. God, the two of you. It's like, I gotta tell you, I don't like coming to work. I don't like going home. It's, it's, it's just a constant assault. My life is—

my name is Mike. I take it back. Come on, man.

All right, this is the worst date.

That was— that was— I wish I would have picked a better question. I didn't know you didn't know celebrities.

Yeah, I wish you had picked a better question too. What, um, what do you got for the— I got some listener mail. Oh God, okay, ready?

Yeah, turn that frown upside down.

I know, I'm just pissed.

Geez Louise. This comes from Cindy Johnson. Being new to Profit First, I have a question. I have a small but growing service-based business and I fall into the under, well under, $250,000 group. Hopefully not too much longer. I was wondering if I should be going in reverse with my TAP for owner's compensation. What are your recommendations on that? I absolutely plan on hitting and exceeding the $250,000 mark and don't want to take an immediate 15% reduction to that amount once I do indeed hit it.

I was wondering if I should go in reverse with my TAP. For owner's compensation. Like, that confuses me exactly what you mean by that. So let me tell you why we said $250,000 or less. For most businesses, they will stay— that business will stay solopreneur as the primary employee until you hit about $250,000. So actually, many of those businesses, even when you hit about $200,000, it's still just you, the entrepreneur, maybe some virtual help. It's after $250,000 that the TAPS start to change. Now, here's a reminder about TAPS. That stands for Target allocation percentages. It's not where you start. CAPs, or current allocation percentages, is where you start. So TAPs is just something to target. Start adjusting your percentages, Cindy, so they start working for you. That's the, the simple answer. So I don't really know what you mean by reversing it, but build your way toward the TAPs and see how it's serving you and if you can operate your business effectively. Keep pushing yourself on increasing your pay and your taxes and your profit while you reduce OpEx until you can't do it anymore. It's kind of like exercise. You don't start by putting on the heavy weight. You build your way up to it. So hopefully that answers your question. All right, Kelsey, take us out.

Don't forget to subscribe and leave a—

leave a— leave a review, whatever you're supposed to say. Normally, if I did that, you would be all over my ass. You'd be like, let's make t-shirts. You are right now. No, I'm not. I didn't say what an idiot you are, how ridiculous that was. But you gotta do a retake because that was horrible.

Please leave us a review wherever you're subscribing.

Yeah, that's right. Hey, why don't you do one more thing? Get me out of here, I'm terrified. And go to mikemotorbike.com. It's mikemikalowicz.com. No one can spell Mikalowicz, you know that, hon?

I do know that.

Yeah, so, but you can spell mikemotorbike.com because you've seen me drive a motorcycle never. Well, go to mikemotorbike.com. That was my nickname in high school, and it'll bring you to my website. I have free copies of all my books, at least free downloads of chapters there, plus tons of other resources if you simply click on Get the Tools. All right, do it now, and we'll see you later.

Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye.

Oh, we didn't do the guitar. All of us fading out the guitar, you know, at the end, that final note. Hang on that final note. Join me, Jeremy, on this final note. Join me, Kels. Here we go, everyone.

I'm not doing that.

Oh, we're good.