23: The Power of Positivity with Dawson Church

Welcome to my podcast called you'd Must Be out of youf Mind. My name is Dr. Don Wood. Everyone has experienced some trauma at times during their life. These traumatic events and experiences create a significant impact on how your mind works on a day to day basis. At the same time creates long term effects on your emotional and physical health. It will interfere with your ability to stay present and in the moment. After years of research, I used my knowledge of neuroscience to create what I call a memory reset. This memory reset reduces and eliminates the impact of the trauma and allows you to experience peace and clarity. My podcast will share many stories of people experiencing similar symptoms to you and how their lives have been positively impacted by our TIP program. I can't wait to share with you how the impossible is possible and why you must be out of your mind. And there it is.

So welcome to another episode of you Must Be out of youf Mind. And as you know, we always bring on very special guests who provide some amazing insight into what they're doing and what we're doing and where there's some collaboration. And today I'm very excited to have Dawson Church along with us. He is a best selling author, scientist, visionary and scholar very involved in a technique, eft. We're going to learn a little bit more about that here today.

So.

So welcome Dawson, to the you Must Be out of youf Mind podcast.

Oh, it's a thrill to be here. I know we'll have a great time. Thank you for having me.

Excellent. Yeah, so I've read a lot about what you do and it's fascinating. So tell us a little bit about what the technique that you're using and training people. And I know you train a lot of therapists in this technique. Can you tell us a little bit about eft?

Yeah, EFT stands for Emotional Freedom Techniques. And it's often just called tapping because rather than acupuncture and using needles, we use acupressure. Putting pressure on acupuncture points by tapping on them. It's really interesting to work with people with say, a diagnosis like PTSD. We've now worked with over 20,000 veterans through our nonprofit with PTSD and they come in with flashbacks and nightmares, intrusive thoughts. They can't put combat out of their mind. The those past insults to their system, to their body, to their psyche are in the present still. They're not able to disentangle the past and the present. And we find that after six one hour sessions using EFT that those symptoms just go away in 90% of veterans. 10% of veterans doesn't help them or doesn't help them very much. 90% are symptom free or largely symptom free after six sessions. And as they tap, they just simply tell us their stories. They're telling us their story about Vietnam or Afghanistan or Iraq. But while they're doing it, that they're tapping. And these tapping points are drawn from ancient acupuncture meridian charts. And what we see happening in their brains is that the fight or flight response just quietens down when they're first telling you about. Well, I'll give you actually a graphic example. I have a little prop over here. So I was with a one veteran at Omega Institute, which is a beautiful campus, upstate New York. I teach there every year. And I was doing an interview with him with a TV crew, and he was talking about his experiences in Afghanistan. And one of the TV crew members did this.

They had a plastic bottle and they clenched it like this while they were in the studio. And this man was about to dive under the table, and it turned out that that sound was triggering a memory of small arms fire in Afghanistan. And so here he is assigning the same stimulus to an innocuous, innocuous stimulus, Same response to fight or flight as out to combat. And so I tapped with him, we worked with him. His response just went away. Later on, someone could walk into the studio and do that same thing. And he was just perfectly calm. No emotional response. We've now done this with, with thousands of veterans, tens of thousands of veterans, and we see their levels of fight or flight just go down. And the parts of their brain, the emotional midbrain, which is highly active on an MRI or an EEG you see there, their emotional brain is just super activated when they're in fight or flight, that just goes away. And it goes away in a few sessions. And when we test them, then a year or six months later on, they're still fine. So EFT is a way of really quickly regulating negative emotion. It works great for ptsd. It works fantastically well for pain. It's in use now in a lot of addiction clinics because when people are addicted to whether it's. Whether it's fentanyl, oxycodone, whether it's to alcohol or other kinds of prescription drugs, we find that if they tap all of that emotional response to whether it's the food, whether they're doing binge eating, whether it's the drug, that emotional response just goes away. You then show them their food again, their favorite food that Used to make them crave it like crazy. They'd be salivating when they saw that chocolate cake. Now, after tapping, they that that emotional brain is calmed down. So that's what EFT is. It's a way of very quickly calming the stress response or the emotional responses inside the brain to inocular stimuli.

Awesome. Great explanation. That made a lot of sense. So it's similar to what we sort of do. It's a little bit different in the fact that I sort of developed the tip product for basically because of what happened to my daughter and my wife. They both had had trauma. We didn't know about my daughter's trauma until she was much older and she had developed Crohn's. When she was 14. She was diagnosed with that. She was also diagnosed with a second autoimmune disorder called idiopathic pulmonary hemosiderosis. In both cases, they told us there's no cure for it. We don't know what causes it. They just need to live and manage and cope with it for the rest of their life. So My daughter had four operations where they took about 24 inches of her intestines over four different times. The cells were just dying. And so that's when my wife, when she got the hemosiderosis diagnosis. Basically, the lungs are starting to fill up with blood because the immune system is releasing the iron in the blood. And my wife said, if we don't figure out an answer to this, we're going to lose our daughter. So I started to research, and what I gathered and put together was this. All these people I kept running into who are dealing with autoimmune issues had a common thread. They've all had trauma. And so what are they doing about trauma? Right. Well, most of the times before EFT comes along, and what we do is it's all about managing it, right? And we're going to medicate you because it's going to create symptoms of anxiety, depression, things like that. So just medicate it. And I said, why aren't we fixing it? And so that's what I did, is I started to figure out a way to shut down that fight or flight, that amygdala response. And what I found is it's coming from a glitch. It's the way our mind continues to view memory in real time. Because your subconscious mind is fully present. It sees memory in real time. So what I say to people, there's nothing wrong with you and there's nothing wrong with your mind. If your mind thinks there's a threat happening now, it's going to activate your nervous system. It has to. It's a program that's running. And so all we have to do is reset that memory of the way your mind, I say, sees high definition. What I talk about is our process resets the memory into a lower definition format so it doesn't activate the nervous system.

Yeah, that's exactly what you see happening when you look at the way the brain is functioning is that the people still have the memory. They also describe the trauma, but it's no longer linked to the stress response. And the cool thing is once you break that association one time, usually it tends to stay broken. So we find that a lot of our veterans are not using much personal, personal growth tools after their, their, their first six or 10 sessions. But then when we test them again six months or 12 months later, that association is broken. And when it's broken, it stays broken.

Exactly. And that's what people say, well, how do I know this isn't going to come back? And I said, well, we've reset it. We're doing the opposite of the wizard of Oz where it was filmed in black and white and they converted to color. We're taking it from color back to black and white.

Right.

You'd have to re experience that event in order to record it that way again. Right. Your mind has now reset that memory. It's not going to activate your nervous system. It doesn't see a threat.

Well, you know, when I was studying evolutionary biology 20 years ago, that put so many of the pieces of the way we function, the way our brains function and our minds function in place for me, because I realized as I looked at the way we evolved, that that capacity, dawn, was highly adaptive for us. Like 100,000 years ago, a million years ago, your ability to have a hair trigger response to even the possibility of a threat was highly adaptive. And so one of the great examples my buddy Rick Hansen uses is the rope or the snake. And actually that rope or the snake analogy has been, you go back 3,000 years to the Upanishads in Hinduism, they use the rope and snake analogy 3,000 years ago. And so if you, you're walking down the path and just imagine your ancestor a hundred thousand years ago and there's this brown thing laying across the path. If you're an optimist, you say, oh, it's probably just a stick, I don't think I'm going to pay that much attention. And you get bitten and you die. So Mother Nature just weeded out all the Optimists in the gene pool a long time ago. And the paranoid people, people survive. I mean, the person who's mistaking every single stick for a snake lives, even though it's only a snake one time in a thousand, the fact that they're making that, that mistake 999 times, the one time they aren't mistaken, they live. Whereas the, the happy go, lucky person, the or the happy bard is just thinking everything's fine. And, and they're, they say it's 999 times as a stick. They're the person who gets, who gets bitten and dies. So it was we, we literally got those traits weeded out back along the road. Those people with the gene mutations that caused their cortisol to rise, their adrenaline to kick in a nanosecond sooner, their threat response to, come on, they were the ones who survived, passed those gene mutations on to the next generation and again, those people with the fastest stress response then survived. Multiply that by 10,000 generations and here we are. I can sit here in my armchair with a glass of wine at six o' clock at night and everything is totally wonderful here in my, my home and I can worry myself sick. So. And Mother Nature saying, dawson, fabulous. Wow. You're just, your brain is working just the way we designed it to do. So our huge challenge from again, those Upanishads 3,000 years ago to modern psychology and spirituality is we're fighting the current of millions of years of evolution. How do we turn that stress response off?

Exactly. No, that, that was great. I love the fact about the optimist. That's, that's a funny way to explain it, but it's true. And I, and that's what I say to people. They'll come in and they'll sit down and, you know, I had one lady come in for 15 minutes. She's just sitting there telling me all these tragedies that she's had in her life. And I asked her, I said, was there anything else? And she looks at me, she goes, well, that was a lot, don't you think? And I said, oh, yeah, it was a lot. I said, however, for the last 15 minutes, I've learned a lot about what happened to you, but I haven't learned anything about you, so let's talk about you now. They identify with these events and experiences and the labels that are put on them. They'll come in and say, I'm just a very anxious person. And I'll say, well, no, anxiety is a symptom. That's not what you are, it's not what you have. You didn't catch anxiety. Anxiety is your system's response to something. What is it anxious about? Let's get to the root and let's resolve what your mind has actually been trying to accomplish for you.

One of the things. I wrote a book called Bliss Brain because I had a traumatic event myself five years ago, and that was that. It was the middle of the night, was like after midnight, and my wife shook me awake. I looked at the alarm clock, it was blinking 12:45am I looked out the window and there was a glow on the horizon. And so I sprinted outside and looked over our deck and the. The valley opposite us was just consumed with flames. And there was a wildfire racing toward our home. And I just yelled at my wife, we're getting out of here right now. And so we literally threw on some clothes. We grabbed our car keys and cell phones. We ran to the car just as the flames were. Were catching up to our property. And we had a long driveway. We drove at high speed out of the driveway. We drove like crazy down the road. And we were the last people to get out of there. Many people died in the, in the, in the, in the conflagration. 5,000 homes were destroyed. The winds were gusting up to 70 miles an hour. It was an inferno. It was just like, unbelievable. We stood, when we got to safety eventually, about three miles away, we stood there and we watched the fire, which is slow down at that point, cresting the hills. And there was all the sound in, in the night, these just explosions like you're in the middle of a war, as propane tanks were exploding, car gas tanks were exploding, natural gas lines were exploding, and the houses that were being burned up. And so we had this, this period where we, after the fire, we. We got ourselves to safety. It's a long story, but anyway, I wrote this book, this Brain, because in the year after that tragedy in which we lost our home, our office, all our possessions, all our money as well, it's another whole story. But it was just this cataclysm for us, all these things. But we were meditators and we've been tapping for 20 years. And so we found we had the tools and skills not just to cope, but to thrive. And so I wrote this brain about these extraordinary states you get into, because like a lot of these monks and nuns we look at in the EEG studies and MRI studies, they didn't have happy childhoods. They were like Dalai Lama. I mean, when he was a Teenager, the Chinese invaded and took over Tibet and he, he lived, they demolished his, his home. He lived in constant fear of his life for several years and eventually was smuggled out of, out of Tibet because the threat of the Chinese killing him was a daily possibility. So a lot of these people, they're in these blissful states, didn't have easy childhoods or easy lives. And so I, I wrote the book this Brain to explain how we can enter these states and we can enter these states and, and stay there. And so if we practice these skills like self regulation, like breathing, like movement therapies, like grounding ourselves, like time and nature, like tapping, like meditation, all of these things are great ways to support our resilience. And we have bad stuff happen. It then is, is a very different experience for us. We, it's, it's a tragedy, it's a loss, it's, it's, you know, it's still horrendous, but we're bounce back and research shows that 2/3 of people who go through a trauma experienced post traumatic growth, only a third are going to go into PTSD and have all those, those common symptoms. And one of the fascinating thing is, is that unlike our ancestors, we are and we can in fact, unlike any other species, we can change our brains. And the speed of neuroplasticity is really amazing. In bliss brain, I have an image from an electron microscope of two neurons that are firing together and they're firing together and you see them as they fire. They start to get closer and then their synapses start to touch and they actually bond. And the whole process, Don takes 12 seconds, 12 seconds for us to actually wire a new connection. We can start to release old connections. Pruning happens starting in about two weeks. So we start to snip away at these old connections so we can after a while literally build a happy, creative, positive, resilient brain. And we're not just, that's not just our mood. We don't just feel that way. When disaster strikes, like for me, the fire and all those losses, then we have the hardware inside our heads. We fire those circuits for so many years we've wired them and they become so large, like in the monk studies, we find that structures like the ventromedial prefrontal cortex that regulates negative emotion starts over here, runs back into our limbic system and allows the prefrontal cortex to down regulate negative emotion. It's highly developed in those months in people with major depressive disorder. It is like a rope that is in tatters and is frayed. It's just not an effective circuit. They aren't able to control their, their negative emotion.

Are you tired of dealing with stress? Anxiety, panic attacks, depression, even feeling broken? Have traumatic events and experiences in your life created post traumatic stress for you? Perhaps you're an athlete, an executive, trying to reach that next level of performance. Well, there's nothing wrong with you and there's nothing wrong with your mind. Your mind is dealing with some glitches and error messages as a result of these traumatic events or disturbing events earlier in your life. It's interfering with your ability to stay present because the memory keeps on looping, activating your nervous system. I've helped thousands of people deal with anxiety, panic attacks, depression, feeling that sense of brokenness. We can clear that in as little as four hours. Check out our website, inspiredperformanceinstitute.com and check out some of the stories and testimonials. Some of these may relate to what you've experienced in your life and we look forward to helping you reach your next level of performance. And there it is.

So what we do is we can actually, over time, over a few months and certainly a few years, start to rewire our brains and then not just have that state of resilience, a state of happiness or state of joy or feeling good, we literally have that as a trait hardwired into our heads. And again, in terms of being able to do this evolutionarily, it's unprecedented that a species actually is able to restructure its own brain.

And that's what I talk about all the time, right? We're designed to heal, we're designed to do this. Our bodies and brains are always being, trying to heal. A lot of times what happens is they get so stuck in rumination on what's gone on and they can't get out of it. I, I just actually had a, a session this morning with a young man, 16 years old, who had had a sexual assault about a year ago. Started to, his parents had called me, they wanted him to go. They didn't know about the assault right away. They did find out about it. And then they asked me if I could help and I said sure. So they said, can you talk to him about going through the session with you? And I did. And he agreed. He said, okay, that sounds really good. And then after I got off the phone call, I guess some of the behaviors he's been showing, they were going to discipline him. And they said, you know, you don't get your phone back, you don't get your car back, you know, until we get all this sort of sorted out. Well, he went into a fit of rage, pushed the father, pushed the mother, kicked his door completely in. And they called me and said that, you know, they called the police, he's been taken to the hospital. And I said, that's drugs. There's something else going on that they're not going to get into that kind of rage. I said, is he taking that spice, the synthetic marijuana? And they said, well, he was doing something, you know, with. And I said, that's where we're coming from. I said, because that is that normal behavior for him? And they said, no, not at all. And so, anyway, I had him in the session today, and what I explained, he's a super athlete, very gifted athlete, going to really be recruited very highly. And I said to him, as I said, you're putting a chemical into your system that your system doesn't need. It's fully capable of doing 10 times better a job than that junk that they're going to sell you. I said, if the pharmaceutical industry could tap into what you personally have, right. They would make hundreds of trillions of dollars from it. You're capable of doing that. And I says, now you're an athlete. I says, you understand the purpose of training. Let's train your brain to do exactly what you're looking for. Right. And what is training? It's work. You're gonna have to put in some effort. You're gonna have to be intentional. Right. Or you can hire somebody to go in and play for you. Which are the drugs?

Yeah, right. That's a great analogy. And the reason people reach for those drugs and want those drugs is they just don't know that our brain produces all these drugs innately. Our brain has the ability, our bodies produce all of these drugs endogenously. And so, for example, the, the, the, the, the. The neurotransmitter we find abundantly in the brains of meditators and monks is anandamide, otherwise known as the MIS molecule and has the same chemical structure as thc.

Oh, this is so funny, Dasa. I had this exact conversation with him.

Yeah, absolutely.

But an endamide and thc, Anandamide.

And people who are wanting marijuana and THC just don't realize that you can get it. And in large amounts if you just meditate in, in the right way. Dopamine in the brains of meditators can rise by 65% in a few minutes if they are doing the fact of meditation. So dopamine, serotonin, Beta endorphin, norepinephrine, the, the pleasurable side of norepinephrine. Too much norepinephrine is that panic attack, but a moderate amount of norepineph. Norepinephrine is a focusing neurochemical and allows us to focus. These monks have a small rise in norepinephrine. They light up those parts of the brain and then they can really focus on the object of the meditation. So serotonin, when we produce dopamine, that triggers the production of serotonin. When we produce oxytocin, that produces serotonin. And serotonin has the same chemical structure as psilocybin. So when people are going and doing microdosing, all they're doing is they're taking the same thing, but it's not one produced endogenously by their bodies and they're inserting it in their, their into their biochemistry and it's having that effect. I'm a real advocate of just learning to do these kinds of practices ourselves. I mean, getting a 65% rise in dopamine, big rise in serotonin, floods of oxytocin, floods of norepinephrine, floods of beta endorphins which mark, Mark pain enormous. I mean beta endorphin is three times as potent as synthetic morphine. Ounce, four ounce. And so those are the brain drugs you want to be, be getting. And you can get them all endogenously through these self love practices. You don't need to go take a pill or swallow something or smoke something.

It's so funny because you're the only other person I've ever heard talk about that that way because I taught people say, I've never heard that, you know, And I said thc, right? When it hits your system, your system. And that's almost the exact chemical compound, right, of anandamide, right. Which is going to create a response in the body because it's going to attach to those receptors. I says, but you could do that all on your own. So even I use a simple explanation. I'll say people who smoke. And I actually did this with him today and I said, when people who are smoking and they want to quit smoking, what do you think they're going to tell me that they're addicted to? And he goes, nicotine. And I said, what? I tell people who are having, you know, problems with cigarettes, they want to quit. I said, you think you're addicted to nicotine? I said, you're not addicted to nicotine. I said, nicotine has almost the Exact chemical compound of a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which is the precursor to the release. Right. Of dopamine. So what happens is when you take the cigarette, the nicotine enters your bloodstream, hits your brain in five seconds. Your brain thinks it's time to release dopamine. It thinks the. The nicotine is acetylcholine, so it releases dopamine. I said what you're addicted to is feeling good, but it doesn't last. So you have to go take another cigarette and you have to keep taking cigarettes which are, you know, producing all kinds of chemical, other imbalances in your system.

Yeah.

And so most people don't understand that. And when you explain it, as I said, there's nothing you can take into your own system that you're not capable of already doing.

Yeah.

You just have to train it.

Yeah. Yeah. I was one of my colleagues, actually, she's writing a book now called EFT for Addictions. And she's running, been running a program at a clinic called Avery lane for almost 20 years now. And they use EFT, their other energy psychology techniques. And what they do is they're working again with addicts. They have inpatients, they have outpatients, and they're training them to do this. And the data done from her clinic is astonishing for a grant. I just looked at the suicidality numbers, and people, when they come in, they're hooked on fentanyl or they're binge eating or whatever their, their addiction to tendency is. And so their, their levels of depression, anxiety, trauma are sky high. Don. She doesn't even begin treating their addiction until she treats trauma. And she doesn't treat trauma. As a corollary to treating addiction, she treats addiction a long second. Feeding trau trauma. They first go through trauma treatment, and then she starts to work on the addiction. And the suicidality numbers are, they're. They're off the charts. There is an 80, 87% drop in behaviors, like thinking about suicide planning, suicide planning, how you'd commit suicide, having a date for your suicide, visualizing your suicide. They're these screeners that, that therapists use to screen all those behaviors. And there's 80% drop and 7% drop in symptoms. And study I did of healthcare workers, doctors, nurses, chiropractors, alternative medicine practitioners, we found that when they tapped, they had an 87% drop in cravings for whatever it was they craved. So, I mean, these, these therapies that we're coming up with now, these are all body based. Therapies These aren't cognitive therapies. These are all to do with breathing. They should do with feeling your body, becoming mindful like you do with yoga. Nidra eft is tapping yoga therapy is effective qigong or all of these ways of getting back into your body. You are dissociating, you're staying in your body, re experiencing your trauma, you're letting it go. And then a lot of the stuff here you were using to get high, you don't need any more because you're generating all of this positive neurochemistry internally. And again.

The relapse rate is really low for people who learn these forms of self care.

We're doing a lot with addiction as well. And again, the approach that I take with it, the first thing I do is when I sit down with them, I'll say again, there's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with your mind. You've had trauma, right? And you found a resource to temporarily stop the pain. It's all about pain. Addiction is a code, right? The brain has coded a response to pain. And so if you have this emotional pain and every time you pick up, you know, that drug or you pick up that drink, you temporarily stop the pain. The subconscious mind is fully present, it's in the moment. So when does it want pain to stop? Now, right? You found a resource that did exactly that and then you repeated it. So you built a code. So I had a young lady come in who had been seven years on heroin and she said, I have to tell you up front. My therapist said to make sure I was honest with you and let you know I have self destructive behavior. And I just smiled at her. I said, really? What would make you think you're self destructive? And she looked at me and she says, well, I'm sticking a needle with heroin in my arm. Don't you think that's self destructive? I said, no, I don't. I think you're trying to feel better. And I'll bet you when you stuck the needle in your arm, you felt better. I says, now the substance you're using is destructive, but you're not destructive that totally. She looked at it completely different. I said, I've never touched a drug in my life. I've never even had a drink in my life. Never once, Dawson, have I ever had a drink or had a drug. But I never had any trauma. I had this idyllic childhood. So I learned to regulate my nervous system as a child. And so I always knew how to come back. I always Knew it wasn't that as an adult, you know, you get bumps along the way too. But I was always able to regulate again and I just naturally did it. So I said, but as a child, you had a lot of childhood trauma. You didn't get that skill, you didn't learn how to do that. And so now as an adult, what do you do? You shut it off.

Yes. And reach for things outside of yourself, whether they're prescription drugs or street drugs. And we do want to feel good. And I, I just, I wrote Bliss Brain partly because I just wanted people to know that there are ways of getting all of those things. Acetylcholine, gaba, serotonin, dopamine. And they don't have anything to do with, with exogenous sources, endogenously, your body makes all of them. And I remember I got the idea for the book partly because after the fire in the, in the, like in the first year, this is about two years to pull ourselves together again. And I'm not wanting to pretend either that we didn't have ptsd, that we didn't need treatment, we needed, needed PTSD treatment. I got therapy from some great psychologists, from some wonderful energy workers, but very, very quickly. We were able to in a few weeks, actually, I mean, actually the week after the fire, I flew to, to Vancouver, British Columbia and Canada to keynote a trauma conference and a one week trauma workshop. And here my house had just burned down the week before. So I remember standing up there to give my keynote speech and the guy introduced me is a famous psychologist called David Feinstein, several best selling books. And he said, Dawson's church is standing up in front of me now to give this keynote speech on trauma. Either this man is a total fraud or our methods really work.

That's awesome.

So we recover very quickly and people don't realize they can get all these things endogenously. And so in the year after that I found myself hitting these highs. And I'd always felt really amazing during meditation and had the sense of communion with you all. It is. But I then began to look at.

I looked for example, at a 1601 painting, painting from 1601 of St. Francis of Assisi by an Italian painter. And this is St. Francis in a prayerful ecstasy. I thought, he looks stoned. I look at some woodcuts of Rumi, I thought, he looks stoned. St. Catherine, she looks stones. And Teresa, she looks stoned. And I realized they are because I was sitting there in meditation here. My house had burned down. I was, I had lost all My retirement savings, I fear. I mean, I should have been in dreadful shape and I was in absolute bliss. And the cognitive dissonance was so great between my external circumstances and how I felt, I, I just had to look for the answers. That's why we got to really look into manamide, its effects on the brain, on the body, dopamine, serotonin. And I've a whole chapter in whispering about these seven neurochemicals of ecstasy and how when our body secretes them, it secretes them in the perfect dose. They fit properly in that lock and key receptor model with our body's natural receptor sites. We can't overdose on them. We're not going to produce way too much of any of those things. Usually what's important about them too is the ratios. I found that the ratios were actually more important than the absolute amounts. So for example, it's the serotonin dopamine ratio. It's quite low in some people, it's quite high in other people. But when we're happy, it's about the same ratio whether we have naturally high or naturally low serotonin and dopamine. So I found all sorts of interesting studies around this. And then, I mean, I looked at all the brain hacks that are required to drive ourselves into those blissful states. And of course these are all learning chemicals. You get that reward from that heroin you're sticking in your veins because it feels rewarding, it feels good. How do you then get the reward from someplace safe and healthy? But you're getting the same brain drugs either way. The one way though is going to really propel you into lasting self generated joy. The other is going to make you dependent upon an external source and give you all the side effects.

And what's interesting about that too is this is what I was trying to explain to this young man is I said when you put that chemical into your system, it's only turning your system on to do what it can naturally do. I said, so it's your system that's producing you to feel better, right? It's not the chemical. Right. It's just starting the system to do what it's going to do, but your own system. So what does that tell you? You don't need that chemical. You can do it all on your own. You just have to find another way around to do it. And, and when we get trauma out of the way, it's a lot easier. Like I said, I, I've been fortunate, you know, as a childhood, grew up in this very idyllic Childhood, my parents never yelled, never raised their voice. There was constant safety in my environment, so I never felt unsafe. And if I got bumped, you know, by a teacher or coach or somebody like that, as soon as I came home, my nervous system just came right back into regulation. So my system trained itself. And it wasn't until my daughter had experienced what she'd experienced and then we connected up that she had had some trauma. She didn't tell us about it. That's what led me into the research saying, what is trauma doing? Well, trauma creates inflammation. Inflammation compromises the immune system. That compromises the neurotransmitters. So people are getting sicker because their immune system's compromised, and they're feeling bad because their neurotransmitters are compromised. And so what do we do? We medicate them. We pump other chemicals in to try to do something. So with my daughter, she ended up having four resections done. They took out 24 inches of her intestines because the system was dying, right? Her intestines were just locking up, and they were in an inflamed state. They couldn't process. So once I took her through our program, her Crohn's is gone. Her lung disorder is gone, right? So she had a cyst formed on her ovary a few years ago. And the doctor went in and operated, and he said, I'm confused. Your chart says you have Crohn's. She goes, yeah, I have Crohn's. And he goes, well, I operated. There's no evidence you have Crohn's. And she goes, well, no, I haven't had a Crohn's flare up in a while. He goes, but you're not medic on any medication for Crohn's. She goes, no, I don't take any medication. And this is what he said to her, Dawson. He says, I hate to tell you this. You've never had Crohn's. She goes, no, I've had four resections. I've gone down to 95 pounds. She goes, I've had Crohn's. He goes, but Crohn's doesn't go away. It's either active or suppressed by the medication. So I explained to him, once we got the trauma reset, the inflammation came down, right? And her immune system came back online and neurotransmitters came back online, right? He goes, that's impossible. He goes, if that was true, you'd have a Nobel Peace Prize.

So I says, then you tell me what Crohn's is. And he said, crohn's is a lifelong debilitating disease with no cure. I said, I disagree. Crohn's is inflammation.

Yeah.

You know, no sense to him.

Yeah, that's the tragedy here, Don, is that we are in a world in which people still look for external cures. I mean, the person shooting heroin is looking for an external drug, but our whole medical system is highly focused on drugs. And, you know, you mentioned managing disease earlier on, and that's a common term. But if you, if you go back to look at medical papers, go to back the New England Journal of medicine in the 50s and 60s. They don't talk about managing diseases, they talk about curing them. They really focused on the cure. Now we talk about managing the disease with drugs or whatever it is we're going to use. And we, we don't usually talk about. And often, even, especially in terms of autoimmune diseases, look for cures. I went on the front, on the, on the homepage of the Mayo Clinic, and I don't know about to write today, but when I went on there a while back, I looked at five myalgia and the very first line in the very first paragraph of the Mayo Clinic Website under the F's for Fibromyalgia, the F entry was 5. Myalgia is an incurable disease. And I thought there, you know, I have two randomized controlled trials of EFT that show two thirds of patients either getting better or being completely cured by just doing an online program. They never even saw a nurse or a doctor that is tapped online with somebody, you know. And so we have this, this mindset of going and getting medicated, and these are the experts. And a lot of the, A lot of our model is just so out of date. We look back now and we look at, you know, Barbara surge in the 1700s, and we say, oh, how barbaric. I can tell you that our grandchildren will look back at a lot of what we're doing now in medicine, and it'll look as crazy to them as bloodletting looks to us nowadays, because it is so out of step with the way our bodies work and how we really do heal.

It's amazing. Everything you're saying is things that I've been saying. You're the only person that's sort of totally in line with everything that I've been talking about for a while. Same kind of thing. And when I started looking for answers for my daughter, right. It kept coming back to live, manage, cope with it. And I said, why aren't they fixing it? And so I said, so what is, what's actually happening? What's happening to the brain, what's happening to the body with trauma? And that's when I, you know, started realizing this is all about inflammation. And I talk to people, they'll come in and they'll say, well, I have depression. And I'll say, they'll tell you this depression is a dysfunction of the brain. It's not, it's a function of the brain. Right. So if you have trauma and your mind can't get this trauma resolved, so it keeps using emotions to try to get an action. The purpose of an emotion is a call for an action. So if something has hurt you 10 years ago, and for 10 years your mind has been getting you angry, wants you to fix it, it actually wants you to make it stop, but it doesn't understand. You can't make it stop, it already happened, it's 10 years old. But your mind keeps viewing it in real time. So if your mind keeps calling you into an action by trying to use the emotion of anger and you don't get it resolved, how does your mind protect you? It shuts down. It stops using the emotion to protect you because it can't get the action call. So depression is the absence of emotions you're not feeling now because it couldn't get the resolution that it was looking for, resolve what it was trying to fix the trauma. The depression will lift.

Yeah.

It's a function.

Yeah, yeah. The rates we see of reductions in anxiety, depression, traumatic stress, physical pain, phobias, all of these things. But energy therapies are amazing. Like when I was doing, I did a lot of gestalt therapy training and work back along the road in the 90s and 80s. And you know, I, I think gestalt is a really powerful technique. It, it's got a lot of research behind it and it's very effective in some, in some, some ways. But energy therapies, when you add in body based stimuli like tapping, like breathing, like meditation, like movement, like time in nature, grounding all of those things I mentioned earlier, I've got 30 of them in my book Mind to Matter that are evidence based and you add in those and then suddenly the body just starts to reset. Now you're telling the person, oh, I'm remembering that insult, I'm remembering that traumatic event and I'm safe now. That's what psychiatrists learned after World War II, working with veterans of World War II is they found that if they could do something to keep them in their bodies. They could process trauma. If they dissociated, they couldn't. And so a lot of our therapies are, and a lot of our mental health treatment is very dissociative and doesn't get us back in our bodies. You have to get people back in their body. They actually do re experience the trauma. But then from this anchor point of safety and regulation you mentioned earlier and that that's when the subconscious figures out, oh, it's not a current event, it's the past, it's not not here now. And people heal.

It's exactly what, what I talk about too. And I say I worked. Dr. Benjamin Hardy, he writes for Psychology Today. He said, I want to write about what you're doing. How are you getting these results so quickly? Because in four hours we can get this taken care of. One four hour sitting. He went through the process and then wrote about it. And what I said to simplify it is I said if you have a traumatic event, you're going to be in a very high beta brainwave state state.

Yes.

And so your mind's going to be cycling at, you know, probably close to 30 hertz, very, very active, taking in tremendous amounts of detail. So that's going to get stored in explicit detail in your memory system. So now you have this explicit memory. Every time your mind thinks about it is something reminds it of it, a smell, a sound or whatever it goes through the memory to see what do we know about that? That activates the nervous system. So now you go into traditional therapy and they're going to talk to you about trauma. Well, what brainwave state are you going to be in when you're talking about the trauma? You're going to be in the same brainwave state that you were then when you experienced the trauma. Pretty close. So how do you fix beta and beta? The reason I use four hours because by the time we get an hour and a half to two hours in, everything I've been taking you through has you in a dominant alpha brainwave state. Very safe, very focused. Now we're going to bring in a two minute highlight reel of that trauma event. Right. But the dominant state is alpha now. It resets it.

Yeah. And that that window of four hours has been studied in the research into memory reconsolidation and extinction. And they find that when you have a. So there are several conditions that be met for the emotional tagging on a memory to be removed. But when somebody is reflecting on and in that state of re experiencing that window opens, that four hour window opens up. And what you do in that four hour window is incredibly important. And then after four hours they're really interesting experiments showing how they measure this window. But after, after certainly four and a half hours, five hours, it's, it's shot again. And this is this. So there's, there's enhanced neuroplasticity in the four hour window. And when you, when you revise those highly emotional memories within that window, then they stay revised. The research shows that again this is, there's a lot of, a lot of human trials here, a lot of rat research dating from about 2000 to 2005, human trials starting in 2005 to today on this, this four hour window. But when you re revise that emotional learning in that four hour window, you reconsolidate the memory without the emotional tag of trauma. And when they retest those people a year later, that tag is still not there. If it's not fixed within that four hour window, the tagging is still there. Yep.

And so what I do for the first hour and a half to two hours, it's all talking about stories. I talk about the science, why they're experiencing, what they're, I haven't even talked to them about a trial trauma. And I say to him, I said when we get to the trauma, I'm going to do this three different ways. One, if you want to talk about it, that's fine, but I'm looking for movie trailer like, like a couple minutes, right? That's all I need you to do or I'll do it all visually. So there's a couple different ways we can do it. But at no point do you have to tell me what the trauma is. I don't need all you, your mind knows what it is. I'm just going to run you through the process of getting your mind to re reset it. And, and it does it. People are like, I had a US army sniper who had to shoot and kill a 12 year old boy. He was just sobbing when I first sat down with him. And I said, we're not going to be talking about it today. And he goes, well I got arrested at the VA last week because I started throwing tables and chairs. They arrested me. He said I can't talk about this again. I said, well I don't need you to talk about it. He goes, well, how are we going to fix this if I don't talk about it? I said, well I'll show you your mind can do all this work for you. I'm just Going to guide it through the process. By the time we were finished, he could give me a complete description without the emotion and said to me, goes, how did you do that? And I said, I didn't do anything. I said, for eight years, your mind has been trying to get you not to pull the trigger. It thought you were shooting somebody now, but you're not shooting somebody now. You're sitting with me. Right. Your mind reset that memory. It's not going to call for an action again.

We test people. Then a year later, that reset is still in place. So, yeah.

Yep.

John. That the trauma can be released. And then all the things that are secretly of trauma, those addictions, those panic attacks, those other behaviors, all of those tend to diminish or go away. So this is really the. The root of it all that you've got, you've got here. And then if we can reach people at that level and they can learn to regulate and release all that, that emotional tagging, then other. All the other things that they thought were bothering them, they're just dominoes that are later on in the sequence, and they all fall.

I only work on two to three events. And then I say, your mind will reset everything else for you. Right. It's designed to heal. It'll go through the process of looking at all that data and reset it. So I had a lady who had. Had really bad sexual abuse as a child. She had multiple events. We worked on three. And then she said to me, well, we're going to be here all night because I have a lot of these, but we don't need to do anymore. She goes, don't I have to go through each one with you? I said, no. I said, your mind will reset everything else for you. So when you go to sleep tonight, you're going to go into theta. It's going to continue to process.

Yes.

And she goes, even if we didn't talk about it. And I said, right. I ran into her a month later, just by chance, at a store. And she said to me, she says, I've got to share something with you. She says, for the. After we did that session, she goes, for the first time in my life, I was able to sit down and talk to my husband about it. And she says, and I wasn't shaking and crying. She goes, that was an amazing bonding experience for the two of us. She says, but I'll be honest with you. When you told me my mind would clear everything else up because I didn't believe you, I thought I'd be coming back in she said, but I was at Universal Studios on the weekend with my husband and my daughter, and I was riding on the escalator and I was looking over the railing and my daughter said, mom, look at what you're doing. She goes, I never told you I had a fear of heights. And it's gone.

She says, I got up to the top of the escalator and I went over to the rail and I watched people walking under the bridge. She goes, I couldn't do that before, but we never talked about it. And I said, yeah, your mind reset.

And then there are stubborn things too. Like I, I wonder, Don, why that I mentioned that in our, our randomized controlled trials that it's effective for 90% of veterans. But I looked at the data, I've met the veterans who are in that 10% and their numbers just don't budge. And so I, I, and I have no, I have no really good idea about why, why they can't. I mean, maybe they have secondary gain. A few veterans have told us, for example, a few have refused to enter treatment. They say, I big pension as a result of my PTSD disability. I don't want to come into treatment. So they have very clear secondary gain. But you know, why is that, that 10th veteran not responding? And I, do you have any, any theories about that? Any ideas?

I think, I mean, maybe just that the individual maybe has something that they can't reach, that they just can't get to. Right. Is. But I think, you know, maybe it's just part of the system. Maybe we can't fix a hundred percent. If we could, it would be great because I have a few. But generally it's same thing as I say it's 90, 90, 95% of the people I work with. Right. Are able to do it and get through it. So that's it. That would be an interesting study to try to figure out what those few that can't get through. The only time I've had an issue is if they're heavily medicated.

You know, sometimes. So if they're so especially veterans are very heavily medicated, their mind can't process. That may be a big part of it.

Yes. Yeah, you wonder medication can get in the way because medication is actually affecting the way your, your neurochemistry works. And so if you've had especially years that interference, then that pattern may be so strongly established that you can't change it. Also, there's a phenomenon in EFT we talk about called psychological reversal, where the body's energies aren't Flowing correctly. And so acupuncture corrects that. So put in the acupuncture needle, energy starts flowing and the person feels better. I think that some of those.

Energy flows have just been impeded for so many decades and that neural wiring.

Is so substantial around that behavior that it's really hard to change. So I'm really interest. I usually call for people in my live workshops and my people actually in a room like an Omega Institute, I'll ask people to come up front and work with me. I'll often pick the toughest nut in the room because I want to prove to people who are watching. So these are all students. Usually they're getting certified in EFT and I want to show them, hey, not every session is going to be a piece of cake. So I don't tell anyone this, but I'll pick a person, I'll pick a subject. Well, I know we can't fix. Like I had somebody in, in a workshop who had a, a bone spur on his foot. So I thought, ah, perfect example. Guy with a bone spur on his foot. No way a bone spur is going to go away in a 30 minute session. And I sat there and tapped with him and there was all this emotion around the bone spur. What does it mean? What does the name of the bone spur mean? Will I, will it get, get, get, keep getting bigger? Will I develop more spurs? Why did I do this? Why is my body doing this? Can I trust my body as I'm aging? Blah, blah, blah. I mean, there had to be 40 negative beliefs attached to that, that bone spur. So we tapped on all of those. Not that he was just kind of mildly interested in the bone spur, but no more so interesting. Yeah, yeah. People with, you know, incurable, incurable conditions, people with, with say a pain that hasn't gone away for 40 years, you, you start shifting their energy and then they usually do shift. And then every once in a while there's somebody you run into and there's just something about their energy flows or about their physiology or about their neural wiring that is just so set that changing it is hard. Actually, one example probably is serious mental health issues. Diagnoses like schizophrenia, borderline schizophrenia.

Things like that. I mean, there are some therapists who are treating those with EFT successfully and yet they seem to modify them. And I hear a very few cures from serious psychiatric diagnoses like that.

Well, one of the things that's interesting when you mentioned schizophrenia, because to me, schizophrenia is the most extreme response to trauma. The brain has come completely disorganized it just can't handle that amount of detail. So they become schizophrenic. So it's all coming down to safety. They don't feel safe. Right. And so they've experienced a lot of unsafe, you know, no lack of safety in their world. But here's an interesting thing that I found in my research. There's never been a documented case of a person who has schizophrenia that was born blind.

Which is interesting. Right. So there's no documented cases of a schizophrenic who was born blind. Suggests that they didn't record. Right. The visual side of it. So how much of it is coming from that visual memory? I think a lot of it. And so I could see how tapping could probably help. What we do can help, but it's a lot harder because it's so entangled. It's a, you know, a ball of yarn that you've got to get through. But I think it's possible to do that. It would just be a lot of work. Most of the people we're seeing, we can, we can clear pretty quickly.

Right? Right. Yeah, that's the minority of the people. The majority of people. And for me, just to watch those layers of trauma just peeling off me, there were people who sat down. Like one woman who sat down had been sexually abused from the age of 2 to the age of 17. So just 15 years of early life developmental trauma. And again, developmental trauma is, it's a whole different category from PTSD because it was those, those traces, those neural pathways, those memory traces and the, the hardware that, that, that keeps them in place. It was all being laid down while they're being traumatized and they were learning the world as an unsafe place on a visceral neurological level, not on just a mental level. And so I just watched as layer after layer, she. Almost like she looked like she was shedding just garments as all these layers. Fe has done a lot of work on herself. She was a therapist and done a lot of other work on herself earlier, but she was finally ready to sit there and just let it all go and just watch. It was just miraculous to watch that, that, that process with her. At the end of which he stood up and said to the audience.

Nothing that man could throw at me for those 15 years could take away my joy. I realized I was a joyful two year old underneath the abuse. I was joyful, and I'm joyful now at the age of 46. And so I got the worst he could throw at me and I was still joyful through it all, and I am today. And I'm strong, I'm resilient. And so she actually turned her story of abuse into a story of triumph, victory, and becoming fully empowered. And it's just amazing to watch people do this. And then they describe the things that had been their disabilities before in terms of what's helped propel them into a new phase of growth. So it's just. I'm just so gratified we have these tools now that can do this, and people don't have to suffer the way they had to suffer a generation ago.

Yeah, it's so exciting to watch people. I had one of the Boston Marathon bombing survivors come in and see me. And she came in during the day, and then she was there with a couple of other people. So they came the next. So I took her through the session that one day. The next day, she was just coming back in with some other people. But she said to me, she says, let me share something with you. She says, last night, she said, I was feeling great. She goes, there's no question, like, this was life changing for me. She says, so we. A few of us went out to Universal Studios. And she says, and I forgot at the end of the night, they have fireworks, right? So she says. Says the fireworks are going off. And she says, and I'm standing there watching the fireworks, going, oh, my gosh, they're so beautiful. She goes, oh, my God, I'm watching fireworks.

I couldn't believe it. She says, before, if I'd have made that mistake, I'd be on the ground having a panic attack. But her system knew this was just fireworks. It was. It wasn't bringing up the old data about the. The marathon.

And then one what. In my book, the Genie in youn Genes, it's all about epigenetics. And we look at identical twins and how people born with the same genome, exactly the same environment, growing up in the same family, can have radically different health and life outcomes. On average, they die more than 10 years apart. One twin will get heart disease, one will not. One will get cancer. The other one won't. So how can they be so different? And so there's a lot of research now in epigenetics about. About the answer to that question. But what I do when I see the people we work with is I'm imagining a bifurcation in their timeline. Now they're doing the work. Now they've released that. So this woman who's watching the fireworks and enjoying them now, what's happening to her gene expression is that those genes that code for those stress biochemicals aren't turning on. And so now there's been an epigenetic modification. Epigenetic coming from outside the system, outside the cell, outside the body, that is modifying her gene expression. And it's different today and it's different tomorrow and a bit different the next day. And it's only going off one degree in each direction every few weeks or months. But over 10, 20 years, that's where you see the longevity research, for example, showing that optimists live an average of 10 times longer than pessimists. And so, cumulatively, we're having genetic divergence after we have this healing experience. And our gene expressions are very different. We age more slowly, we have less of a burden of disease, our inflammation goes down, our immunity goes up, all kinds of good things happen. And it all begins with that healing experience. So it's worth doing now to relieve yourself of the burden of the past. But what it's going to do in the longer term, in 5, 10, 20 years, you will have a radically different life than what you would have had had you kept on going along that same limited pathway. So this has the potential to really shift people. Shifts their anatomy, shifts their physiology, shifts their longevity, shifts their health span, gives them dramatically better lives. And the effect is contagious. And that's the other powerful social effect of healing, is that research shows that if I'm happier, my neighbor is about 35 more likely to be happy. His neighbor is about 15% likely to be happier, and her neighbor, who I don't even know, is 6% likely to be happier. So we become agents of emotional contagion in a positive way for all those around us. And we literally make the world a better place by healing ourselves.

Yeah, that's beautifully said. One of the interesting facts, I was adopted, so we. And at one point, we didn't know any about my family history. The only thing that I did know when I was 18, my mother told me that our family doctor was my grandfather. So there was some sort of a connection from that. He asked my parents to adopt me, but that's about all I knew. And so I've been healthy all my life. I've lived in Florida 30 years, never been to see a doctor. I've been always healthy. I was healthy as a child. I played hockey. I'm originally from Canada. I had 60 stitches in my head, six concussions, never missed one hockey game. I played through all of those injuries. My teammates, right, would get the same kind of injury would be out for two or three weeks, two or three days. I'm back playing. I always. They always said, well, it must be some sort of a genetic thing with you. We don't know your family history. I think it was a combination. I think what it was is that my nervous system was so regulated that I got maximum maintenance done. So if I'm getting two or three times the maintenance rest that my teammates are because they're dealing with all the trauma. I didn't know a lot of my friends were being physically, emotionally, sexually abused. That was news to me. I didn't know anything about that growing up because I didn't see any of it. My friends didn't share it.

Parent.

So we had our first grandchild a year ago. So my daughter decided to do the genealogy to get our history. And so what I found out is I have six siblings, and so three that were born before me and three that were born after me. And what we found out was, is that my mother was in a very abusive marriage with the first three children, like violence, addiction, alcohol. Right. She just walked out and left the three kids. Nobody knew where she ever went. Well, obviously she met somebody, got pregnant with me. My. My parents ended up adopting me, and then she went and had three more children in another marriage identical to the first marriage. Violence, addiction. The three siblings who were born before me, two died of cancer. The third one has a heart condition. The three siblings who were born after me all have health issues. All six of them had addiction issues. I've never had a drink in my life, Never touched a drug in my life. Right. Never had any health problems. What was the difference? The environment. I was in an amazing nurturing environment. So my activation of my genes really didn't come in. I was safe. They didn't have that. And so my own little family history is an amazing study. It just sort of proved what I've been saying all along.

Wrong.

When I talk to people, they say, what's the best advice you can give to parents? I said, make your home safe. Because my wife didn't have that. I remember one time she looked at all my report cards and she goes, wow, school was so easy for you. I went, well, of course it was easy for me. I didn't have to worry about what was going to happen to me when I got home. I didn't have to worry what happened to me last night. I said, you had nowhere to land. You were in constant flight. Home was not a safe place for you. So she was living in that environment. I didn't have that. So of course I could focus in school, I could focus on performance. It really just comes down to that activation of our nervous systems.

And then that's going to happen for each one listening to us today. That's to happen for you over the course of the next while. So you, you may have had the most trauma in your past, you may have had little trauma in your past. And the big question is, as you heal today, what choices do you make today? And then as you allow, as you commit yourself to that healing journey and you release all the emotional impact of that past, you will have that genetic divergence from today onward. So some people in my classes will say, oh, I wish I'd learned this stuff before I have my kids, or I wish I'd Learned this stuff 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And I say, it's fine, you're learning it now. And you're going to start to shift your gene expression right from today and then keep it up and you're going to be a very, very long way from where you were before. And also as you look back on your past, one of the interesting, I'm doing a lot of research now on transcendence, on self transcendence, on people who are moving into monk and nun, like higher states of consciousness. And one of the questions we ask them is, don't you regret that you only trip the switch into that state at the age of 60 or the age of 80 or the age of 45? You know, if you'd been able to get there at 25, you'd have had another 40 extra years of being in that elevated state we call Bliss Brain. And they, not one of them says, I wish it had happened earlier. They all say, I completely accept my life, life exactly the way it is. Even if they awakened at 83, they're completely fine with having had a chaotic life up to 83. And then, you know, maybe they're 87 now and they've had four years of bliss Brain and they, they, they, they have no regrets and they also have no desire that it would have happened earlier. That's the amazing thing. So, so you may look back at your life right now and have a lot of regrets and, and wish you'd done things differently. I just can tell you from our research into people who, we call them the awakeners, who've gone through the awakening experiences that, that they are completely at peace with their current life the way it is and where their past life the way it is, and they're able to Enter these elevated states, stay there, and then trigger all this neurochemistry in their brain. So don't worry if you had a chaotic life. Don't worry if you had trauma in your. In your near earlier life. As you move into that, that sense of relationship with something greater than yourself, you'll come to be completely at peace with how your life is. Very then.

Awesome. Well, Dawson, this is by far my longest podcast. I had no idea how long. I didn't look at the clock at all. But we could probably do this for two more hours. We do have to break. I know you've got some things that I've got to run. I've got some stuff too, but thank you so much. This has been an incredible opportunity to talk to you and share what you're doing. How do people reach you? Or if they want to learn more? We're going to put a lot of the tags in the notes anyway. But what would you tell people?

What I'd like those listening to do? I'd like you to do a number of things. One is I want you to download the EFT mini manual. And at the very end, there's something called EFT on a page. It just shows the tapping point. So just try it out. That one page. So the, the one, the one page at the end of the EFT mini manual and that's free at the website. Tapping, just the word tapping and then gift g-I f t.com so, so, so download the mini manual tap and just feel what it does for your stress release. Also there you're going to find a. A meditation track called eco meditation. And we, we have several clinical trials of that. One of them showed that it raises your immune markers. And so this particular one is, is really useful for raising your immune markers and do that for immunity. And then through that portal, you'll find books, you'll find certified practitioners. We have an app called Stress Solution where you can do EFT one on one with a certified practitioner. But it all begins that tapping gift portal that gives you access to all of the materials on the website.

Amazing. Well, I encourage everybody to check all that out. It's incredible. Thank you, Dawson, for being so generous with all your time. This was great and I'm sure we'll continue our talks and possible collaboration together.

I can't wait. Thanks again.

So thank you for your time and thank you for listening to another podcast of you must be out of your mind. And there it is.