31: Learning Radical Forgiveness with Brenda Reiss

Welcome to my podcast called you'd Must Be out of youf Mind. My name is Dr. Don Wood. Everyone has experienced some trauma at times during their life. These traumatic events and experiences create a significant impact on how your mind works on a day to day basis. At the same time creates long term effects on your emotional and physical health. It will interfere with your ability to stay present and in the moment. After years of research, I used my knowledge of neuroscience to to create what I call a memory reset. This memory reset reduces and eliminates the impact of the trauma and allows you to experience peace and clarity. My podcast will share many stories of people experiencing similar symptoms to you and how their lives have been positively impacted by our TIP program. I can't wait to share with you how the impossible is possible and why you must be out of your mind. And there it is.

Well, welcome everyone to another episode of you Must be out of your Mind. And as you know, I always bring in some amazing guests that have so much to offer and what we do and complimenting what they do. And today is another great example of that. I have Brenda Reese, who is a transformational forgiveness coach and does a lot of work in that area. So I'm excited to talk to her because there's so much overlap in what we do. So Brenda, welcome to you Must Be out of youf Mind.

Thanks Don. I'm really happy to be here.

So tell us a little bit about what does it mean to have to be a forgiveness and transformational coach? What does that entail?

So what that entails is teaching a forgiveness process. So as we know, we have all sorts of definitions and programming that we have received in our lifetimes around forgiveness, whether it's religious or from our families. And it has caused a lot of angst for people. Some people can't even say the word forgive because of the things they witnessed in their lives or because of the hurt that they have experienced. And it was an interesting way how I say that the forgiveness work found me because I hadn't even thought about that before. I was doing my forgiveness around my, you know, my divorce and my. It was my third divorce and that was pretty heavy duty learning a lot of lessons. And so it found me and I went into a deep process using these five steps and that's what I was introduced to for radical forgiveness. And it helped my give my brain something to do so my heart could heal. And that's.

Yeah, I love the term they use radical. Right.

Well, and it is a radical and it's radical that the whole Thought around it is radical because it is blending the heart. It's taking the mind, which I'm fascinated, you know, like. But what you do, taking the mind and subconscious beliefs and it's learning how to shift our perception around them.

Yeah. And a lot of it comes down to a shift in perception. That's one of the things that we talk about as well. And this is where there's so much complementary work in what we're doing because we're really coming from the standpoint of I developed the program because of trauma. It was a trauma based program, but as you can tell by the name of the organization where the Inspired Performance Institute. Because I say there's nothing wrong with anybody. Trauma is interfering with our ability to enjoy life to its fullest. There's a trauma loop that continues to run. And this is what I think dovetails into what you're talking about is if the trauma is unresolved and it continues to run, it's very hard to get to forgiveness because the mind does not want to go there when it's continually feeling the pain of what happened. So that resonate a little bit with you and what you're doing?

Totally. Yes, totally. It won't. Yeah. It wouldn't let. And. And this. And as you know, and most people probably listening know, and we don't even know that we're in resistance to it a lot of times because it is so programmed and ingrained that, you know that I'm the victim.

Yep. And so when you get stuck in that loop, that's what I call it. It's a trauma loop. The mind is going to continue to try to protect you. It's going to try to get you to safety. And forgiveness may interfere with that.

Yes.

Because all of a sudden, if I forgive now, I'm vulnerable again. Right. And I let my guard down. Right. And one of the things that we talk about too is we don't have to be okay with it. We're not letting him off the hook. We just need to understand, right, it couldn't have happened any other way. Right. People are coming in with their own set of atmospheric conditions that may have their own pain. Right. That may be causing them to respond to you in a certain way. So it's not okay that they did it. Right. We're not letting them off the hook. Right. But if we want to heal, that's an internal process that we've got to go through. Does that sort of dovetail into what you're talking about as well?

Absolutely, yes. Because, you know, the Way that I look at to with forgiveness, it's our ability to regain control when we experience something that seems to take away our choice.

Yeah.

Right. And that's that safety piece. Because I've got a conditioning that's running under me. If I've been trauma and we've all experienced trauma of some sort. And so I've got that programming that I'm conditioned to go to safety and I'm not able to see past that. So yeah, it dovetails beautifully into what you're talking about.

Yeah. And what people. Sometimes what we talk about is if that's been keeping you safe to not get to that point. I always use it this way. If you walk two miles every day to get food and on that two mile trip, you had to navigate through snipers and landmines. But every day you got there and you got back and then somebody goes, well, why are you doing that? There's a really bright lit convenience store, grocery store 100 yards down that road. It's really safe. Your mind won't go there because it doesn't know that that's safe.

Right.

You're gonna have to do a process to train your brain. Right. To get to that point. It won't naturally go there consciously. That makes perfect sense. Right. But subconsciously it's like, I know I can do the two miles. I don't know I can do that 100 yards. So there's. Where it'll keep coming back to the default mode. Is my pain. Right. Is my pain. I'm not going to let anybody off the hook. Right. And so that they can't get to that forgiveness.

Well, yeah, because we get familiar in our discomfort. Right. That's the way I, A lot of people will say that. It's like, oh, I realize how comfortable I am in my discomfort and I'm scared to go down that road because I do not know it's there. And that's the thing about forgiveness is they don't know. They think that they are feeling like they're. They're betraying themselves by forgiving. Right. I'm betraying my own hurt, my story, my own pain, my scars. I'm betraying that if I give that away. And I also. There's also that false sense of power.

Yeah.

That we have. Right. That, that it's kind of that illusion of power. If I'm holding, if I'm angry with you for hurting me, even though I'm giving away everything to you, I'm giving away my energy, my, my thought process because I'm focused on it. I don't see that I'm blocking myself from, from my own, you know, my own creativity, my own performance, my own anything that is taking so much energy away. People don't realize that.

And I, I talk about it like it's a program. So if you power up your cell phone at night and then you wake up in the morning and your mind starts powering up ten different programs. Right. All about your pain, the battery is going to drain very fast.

Yes.

So you have to start closing those programs down. And the problem is for most people, what they don't understand is that program that has been running. Right. Has served them in their mind very well. And so it's hard to give up a program that served you well, even though you don't realize it's not in your best interest. I'm alive. Just like the two mile trek. I can do that. I'm alive. That's all I need to know, that it served me well. Why would I take a risk? Because our brains are risk adverse.

Yeah.

Doesn't like risk. And now somebody comes along like Brenda and says, well, let's just start thinking about some forgiveness. Mine goes, whoa, right. Don't do that to me. I'm safe. Even though they're not really safe.

Well, they're not. And that's why looking at the beliefs and the patterns is where you have to start. Right. We have to start with the story. What is the storyline that you've been playing with? What is it that's showing up in your life? And that is that you can see that there's a pattern of. So relationships. Beautiful. Right? Everything shows up in our relationships.

Yep.

You know, and I always say that relationships are for growth and healing. Somewhere along the way we think that they should be Hollywood. Right. And. And it's like, no, no, no. If we really look at the meaning of it, for me in the forgiveness work, it's a. About the reflection of what I'm seeing in this relationship. Because an, a simpler way would be to look at it as whatever I'm seeing in this relationship is what something I've denied, repressed and rejected about myself, which you were talking about the programming, the unconscious beliefs. Right. And I've got a guardian up here that's going to say, nope, nope, nope, can't go there. But when we sneakily kind of do these little exercises around what is it that you see? Like they annoy you, they're frustrating you. You know, they treat people like crap or they, you know, or they are belligerent. To others. And it's like, well, where are we doing that to ourselves?

Right. Yep.

You know, looking at that reflection, is that what you do in your work?

Yeah. And when I talk about it was just sort of funny because this is what it sort of reminds me of. I think about beliefs are you're a lawyer and your accountant.

Yes.

Right. And so you say to your lawyer, I'm thinking, I'm going to do this. Nope. And your accountant says, I think I'm going to invest in this. The accountant goes, nope. You can't afford to do that. Right. They're not trying to hurt you, they're trying to protect you. Right?

Yes.

But they're dealing with limited information. They don't have all the information. So if they don't have all the information, same with a belief doesn't have all the information. The secret to healing is to expose all the information about this event. And when you bring in that exposure right now, you can see it differently.

Yeah.

But if you're in that situation and you've only got chapter one of the book, Right. You don't have an ending, so you've got to rewrite the book. So you can rewrite the ending. But as long as you only have chapter one, you live by chapter one.

Yes.

And so it's who's writing the story. So if you. A good example is war. Right. And. And this isn't meant to be against Germans or anything, but if, if Germany wrote the book about World War or World War II, right. They would write it differently than the people who won.

True.

Right. And that doesn't mean that they're wrong. It's just their version of it. And so they're going to be seeing that version, you're going to be seeing a different version, but maybe you have more information, you're writing it from a different perspective. There's. We just talked about that shift in perception, right?

Well, absolutely. And we all have our own perspectives. That's what's funny, you know, how you look at family dynamics. We can all grow up in the same family. Right. But we all have a different version of childhood and we have a different version of the parents.

Yes. Yeah.

You know, and I think that's fascinating, too. And that goes with our beliefs. And, and what I term is, this is what makes it radical. Forgiveness is also the fact of looking at it a little bit differently in the sense of, wait a minute, maybe life isn't happening to me, but for me, because maybe these people are showing up in my life, maybe these circumstances are Happening so that I can learn.

Yes. Yeah. And, and you can take all those experiences like one of the things, the best. I wrote about this in my first book, which is the same title as the podcast. You must be out of your mind. I, I wrote about when I was about 13 years of age. The tennis pro who taught me gave me one of the best life lessons I've ever had and I still use it today. He said to me, he says, you really want to be a great tennis player, right? And I said, yeah. And he goes, and he looks around to make sure no one's looking and he says, okay, I'm going to tell you the secret. And when you're 13, you actually think there is a secret, right? So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get this, it's all over. And so what he said to me is. And he whispers, he goes, lose a lot. And I said, I don't know what you mean. And he goes, you're playing in the 13, 14 year old divisions and you can win in those divisions. He says, but if you play in the 15 and 16 year old and 17 and 18 year old divisions, you're going to lose a lot of, but you're going to learn a lot about the speed of the game. You will never experience that speed unless you go to that level. And so that's going to help you grow. But it's going to be very difficult, right, because you're going to take a lot of losses.

Losing. What great advice about life.

It's perfect because we have to take a risk.

We have to take a risk and we have to be willing to understand that we're going to lose. I'm a 13 year old, I'm not supposed to beat a 17 year old or an 18 year old. Right. However, if I didn't play against him, I would never have experienced that speed and power. What he said is, you're a really good athlete, you will catch up to it eventually by experiencing it. But if you never experience it, you're going to have to wait till you get that power. Now you're in the same proportion. He says, you want to be disproportionate in the power to learn faster.

Oh, that's beautiful.

That great.

That is really good. And where does that show up in your process?

So that's what I talk about is that people look at this and all the pain or the hurt. So I'm really dealing with trauma and then people are looking at trauma as. So I had a lady come in, I'll Give you an example. She came in, she sat down and for the first 15 minutes told me about all these traumatic events and experiences in her lifetime. And as she finished, right. She stopped and I said, is there anything else? And she goes, well, that was a lot, wasn't it? And I said, oh yeah, it was a lot. I says, however, for the last 15 minutes, I've learned a lot about what happened to you, but I haven't learned anything about you yet. So let's start talking about you now. Because that's just what happened to you, right. Because that becomes identity. Right. And start identifying with it. And there's where the forgiveness would be difficult if in their identity, right. They. They've identified with being that victim.

Right.

They. It's hard to give up identity.

Oh, really? Hard to give up identity.

Yep.

Yeah.

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So you talked about a five step process. So what? Tell me a little bit more about that.

Well, the five step process of the radical forgiveness is what I'm trained in. And that's what shifted my whole ability to look at my victim consciousness. Because that's what I had had. I had looked at life as, this is just who I am. And things, these things keep happening to me. I was the one that all of my baggage. That's what you would meet first. Right. You know, the backpack is in front of me instead of behind me. Right. And so when you meet me, that would be what you, what you would see first is I would be like that woman here. Let me tell you about me. This happened to me and then this guy and then my mom and you know, and instead of going, you know, I'm a woman who loves to teach about forgiveness and you know, instead of that piece. But this five step process, what it did was it helped me to get my head. It gave me a process. Okay. Like that's what I needed. I wasn't safe. I had had trauma, I had had betrayal, I had all that. And I wasn't realizing how protected I was for myself.

Sure.

And so what this did was, it gave me. It's like, oh my gosh, it's the first time I had ever heard of a forgiveness process. So, you know, so I thought I can do a process. Right. I'm analytical, I'm in incorporate. Yeah, I got all that. I got I into performance and goals and I can do a process. I didn't want to go into the heart, but I could do a process. And so what it did was working with a coach is what got me to go, oh my gosh. This opened up where I learned more about my beliefs and I learned about where things were showing a pattern that I had not even through years of therapy. And all the different modalities that I had done to help me heal, they all help. But I had not been able to get to this one point. And the interesting part was when we look at it, we do telling the story like you were just saying, our story needs to be witnessed and validated. We need to, we. It's. It's like having someone hear you because a lot of us haven't been seen or heard. So it's listening to our story for the last time the same way mean, right. The victim kind of story. But we need, we get to have all of our parts come out and we get to be witnessed and validated. And then we. The other part of this is learning to feel our feelings. Because how many of us were taught to do that? Or were we told to go to your room if you're going to act like that, shut up. Don't be a crybaby. I mean, I had a client, he was told he was a crybaby at 11 years old by his father and he didn't cry for 20 years.

Right? Yeah.

You know, because of that, because of that belief. And that was just tragic. And all of that, that was being. He was holding himself back. And so feeling the feelings is a really valuable point. And learning how to do that and having a safe space to be able to learn what are these feelings? Using the emotion wheel, you know, and being able to go through these different. What am I feeling? And Then being able to provide exercises and things to be able to help people feel those feelings safely. And that's where that trauma work. Right. Would come in. Because so many of us shut it away because of that.

Yeah.

Then there's. Then there's the third step, which is collapsing the story. So this is where we separate fact from interpretation. What actually happened versus what's that story.

Yeah.

We made up about it. And then the fourth stage is where that's the radical piece where we look at it from a different perspective. And that's where it comes in saying, well, wait a minute. What if life happened for me, not to me. Maybe if I had some sort of say in this, from. This is where the spiritual perspective comes in a little different than the logic and analytical in the mind. But maybe on a spiritual level. Huh? Maybe I chose an experience and that's all it is. Right. An experience. What if I look at it that way? And it takes a while to get to that point, but it's like that shifted everything around me because a lot of my trauma had been around my dad leaving when I was five.

Yep.

And I thought he left me. Right. Because he didn't pay attention, he didn't want kids. I didn't know it at the time. Right. But he left, you know, for another woman who had a daughter just like me and my same age. And when we would visit for the visitation after the divorce, he would pay attention to her and not me.

Right.

And through this forgiveness work, I discovered I had made up a belief at that time that says every man that I love is going to choose another woman over me. Which came true in every single relationship.

Right? Yep.

Right.

Yeah. And so what I talk about with that and why so much of it comes back to those early ages is because a child doesn't have enough life experience.

No.

To understand what's happening. So they attach their own meaning to it without a lot of experience. So you can see how that can get messed up really quickly.

Really quickly.

So it's like taking a person, put him in a foreign country and saying, interpret what's going on. Right. In this group of people. And they don't understand the language. And they're going, I think those people over there are happy. Right. And they're actually laughing at somebody. Right. And these people over here look angry and they're actually upset that somebody got hurt. Could completely see those two situations very different. And, you know, another example, sort of a simple example, there was a guy that I knew who he was, and he was illiterate. He couldn't read or write. And so he was. I. I saw him one day. He worked at this company that my brother ran, and there was a picture in the paper of a police officer. Right. With a young boy. Right. And he said, oh, he go. And you could tell he was trying to interpret what. Make it look like he knew. And he goes, oh, he says, that kid's really in trouble. Right. And I looked at it and I. And I read the caption. It was. The child was being given an award by the police officer. He assumed, because he didn't read the language. Right. That the child was in trouble. Because that's the automatic assumption. Yes. And that's what I say is happening to children. They're putting assumptions on things because they don't have enough life experience. And a lot of times, parents don't understand how to communicate with their children. They think they know what they mean, but they really don't know what they mean. So I just written my fourth book, and I talk about parent and child relationship, and I titled it Don't Mess with My DNA.

I love it.

Because you can affect the way the child's DNA is read and transcribed. So if a child gets traumatized, it will change the DNA code. And so that's the idea, is you need to understand how a child is interpreting the world and how easily they can get a wrong impression about something. Like you did. And it was more about what your father was experiencing about, not what he didn't want. Right. But you can see why a child. That would make logical sense. He. There's another girl that looks like me, and he went there and not here. Well, obviously it means something about me.

Well, of course, because we're egocentric, too, which we're supposed to be. Right. In our young years. It's. It is about us. Until we learn that, it's that, oh, there's others out here, not about us.

I always thought it was about.

I know. Oh, no, exactly. I love that you brought up the DNA, too, because that was something that I noticed with the forgiveness work. The. The energetic piece of the forgiveness that I do and how it can help with that DNA. It can change that ancestral line. It can change it. And I'm watching that happen in the work that I'm doing. And the grandchildren that my kids are having now, they're having a whole different upbringing and experience. Like, we had a lot of patterns in our life of sexual trauma and abuse in every generation, and I have now a generation that doesn't have any of that.

Right. Yep.

And it's powerful.

You can break. I call it coding.

Okay.

The. The brain is constantly coding and writing codes. It's a giant computer. If I start typing on my computer, I'm writing code. Your brain is a computer that is coding your response and your experiences. So it's constantly coding. So if you write that code, your computer doesn't say, hold on, that's not a good code. It just writes the code. Right. It follows the commands, right?

Yes.

It's only the logical 5% of our brain that would go, well, that doesn't make sense. Right. But the subconscious is literal. It doesn't see right or wrong, good or bad. It's just literal. And so there's where the beliefs start showing up. And then so that trauma, you know, especially with children growing up, you can imagine how confusing it is for a child growing up dealing with sexual abuse. Oh, and. And why so many women end up later in life doing things they don't even know they're doing. But women will put on weight to be less attractive, right?

Yes.

Women will end up becoming angry or promiscuous or there's all kinds of things that show up later in life and you don't know, or comes into fear. So they live their life in fear. So there's all kinds of responses to it. But I like what you said earlier, too, about in terms of how two children can end up completely different living in the same house.

Yes.

And one of the things that I talk about is it's coming from what I call their atmospheric conditions.

I love that you said that. Atmospheric conditions. I haven't heard that term before, so I really like that.

So what I'm talking about is, so my wife and her sister grew up in the same house with the same traumatic father. Right. My wife comes out very loving and caring.

Yes.

Her sister comes out very angry and bitter. Right. They're in the same house. Right. What was the difference? The difference was the grandmother. The grandmother was very spiritual, was very into. Right. Church and God and stuff like that. And my wife resonated with that and gave her hope that things would get better. At one point, her sister didn't gravitate towards that. And then they have different experiences with friends and connections. So their atmospheric conditions, even though they were in the same home, their atmospheric conditions were a little different.

Absolutely.

That created a difference in my wife and her sister.

Yes.

And those atmospheric conditions then create thoughts because your mind filters through them. What does this world mean about me? What have I experienced before? And so I talk about, think about Thoughts. If I took a filter and I take water and water are our thoughts. And I pour water through the filter, the water comes out clear. If I put some mud in the filter and then I pour the water through it, the water comes out muddy.

Right.

So what was wrong with the water?

Nothing.

It filtered through the mud. How could it not come out muddy?

Yeah.

That's the atmospheric conditions. So if you don't clear out that filter, it will continue to filter through it. Those are those experiences. It's going to change the thought process.

And then that's going to become a pattern. Just so you talked about, which is a code.

Yes.

Great part about it is just like a computer and just like software, we can change code, we can rewrite code.

Yeah.

And again, I use this story. As I said, if every time I touch the M key on my computer, my computer shut off. I wouldn't say, oh, I've got a bad computer, there's something wrong with my computer. No, there's something that got coded. So if I took my computer to the computer therapist and I said, every time I touch the M key, the computer shuts off, the computer therapist may tell you something like this. Don't touch the M key.

Stay away from words with M's in them. Avoid M's at all costs. Right. Buy a thesaurus that can give you words without M's in it.

Oh, my gosh.

The idea is just to go there and rewrite the code, which is what you're doing, you know, for people. And I always say why it's so important to have a coach like you. Right. Is because. And I, I'm a big sports guy. Why does Tiger woods have a coach? His coach can't beat him, but his coach can see things he can't see. Yes. We don't see ourselves that well. It takes other people to help us. Right. Discover. Right. What we can do and how we can fix something. And so that's why it's so important. And then what you talked about, which I love, is a process.

Yes.

You have to follow a process where your coach knows the process and can guide you through the process if you try to do it on your own. Not that it can't be done, but it's difficult because you may not see the little change that you need to make because it feels normal. Right. To do it that way.

Well, and we can't celebrate ourself either. That's the other piece, like I'm sure you have in, in your program too, because, you know, you mentioned the lawyer and the accountant and I use an. A description of, you know, we've got the judge, the jury, the defendant, and the prosecutor. Right. All here. That's like going, oh, no, don't do that. No, this. And, you know, it gets confusing when we try to do it ourselves. And the other piece, so having. Having someone or a process that can help us along the way, but also to celebrate, because I love how you were about before. I was listening to a few of your things about the. Where you talk about the reticular activating system and what we look for. And, you know, I love that piece because it's like learning to rewire that or recode it to be able to see what you want to see. But it's also to celebrate ourselves that that changes that dopamine in our. In our brain. Right. The chemistry.

Yep.

And I didn't celebrate for the longest time. I didn't know how important that was. And I wasn't able to do it because of my programming, because of the beliefs and patterns that I had.

Yeah. I talk about it with my wife and myself because, like she described, we were the perfect petri dishes for this, to develop this program.

Isn't it great?

I had no trauma. I had this idyllic childhood. Everything worked out for me. Everything was generally pretty positive. I could get bumped here and there, you know, like a coach or a teacher or a friend or something. But my home environment was so safe that my nervous system was constantly being trained how to regulate. So I came home all the time into safety. So all of a sudden we go, I'm safe. So I saw the world very differently. So when my wife, we get married, right? We're doing well, we've got a good business, three beautiful children. Things are going really well. It was difficult for her to experience that level of happiness. Right. It wasn't that she wasn't grateful, but it was hard to see, Right. Like, to get happy about something. Not because she wasn't wanting to do that, but as a child, she had learned, don't get too excited, because when things go bad, they go bad fast. So stay level. Try to level everything out so you don't get hurt by the drops.

Yeah. Oh, yes.

That was a protection system.

Yeah.

And so when I described that, I. I had. I was on a podcast and somebody called in who plays in the NHL, and he's in the NHL for 13 years, and he goes, when you were describing your wife like that, he says, you were describing my wife. He goes, we're millionaires. We fly in private jets. We have everything, and yet I feel like something's missing. She's not getting the enjoyment that I'm seeing that I think she should get.

Yes.

Why? There was nothing wrong with her. She was protecting herself.

Yeah.

Right. Because if I get too happy, too excited, and then it falls apart, I'm gonna get hurt again.

Right.

So I'm just gonna try to go along and keep everything status quo so I don't get hurt.

Yes. And we miss out on life. Right. So much of life. And we don't even realize how much we're missing out on.

Yep. And so that's the idea, is to get that. So forgiveness could be in the way of that trauma can be in the way of that trauma can also create a problem with getting to forgiveness. So that. That's why I'm saying the work that we're doing is fairly similar, is how do we get them there? So we've got to resolve the trauma and get through the pain in order for them to be able to get to forgiveness.

Exactly. And that, I found, was really important to be able to understand, get it away like you have and I have a different way. But the way that we get to that by noticing the patterns and beliefs and then seeing our story and being willing to feel the feelings and experience it around it. I know some people don't want to go into the feelings. Right. They want to stay more. Let's just stay in the process. But it's like, you know, there's so much information out there about we're meant to have these feelings and have them move through us, not stay stuck in it. Right. And attached to it. Right, right. And those attachments that. That we do around those stories or like, that protection. We're attached.

Exactly.

Yeah. And so learning to detach from that in a safe way and then be able to create the new story that we want to be able to be present with, because that's one thing the forgiveness work has done for me, is to be able to be present, be able to work through my trauma and the fear that I had because I lived that life of fear. I was one of those that you mentioned earlier. And I'm like your wife. It's like, nope, nope, nope, nope. The shoe's gonna drop. If I get too excited, it's gonna drop.

Yep.

And, you know, you learn, and you don't even know it's there until it's time. Until it's time to become aware that you're ready. I'm ready to release this. Because, like, with addiction, if people Aren't ready to release it. They can't. And that's why I love the fact that forgiveness is a choice.

Right. And. And I talk about addiction is. Addiction is a code. It's not a disease.

I love that yours is a code. I love this.

Because if you change, still true. The brain codes. So if I have pain. Right. And every time I take a drink or I take a drug, the pain stops, even if it's temporarily. Right. The subconscious operates in the present. It only deals with now. So what does it want the pain to stop now.

Right.

Take that drink. It solved the problem.

Yeah.

Your subconscious can't see consequences to actions because it has no connection to time. It's only the conscious mind that can see consequences to an action. But who's in charge of survival?

The subconscious.

It's going to overrule the logical, reasonable part of your mind to say, if I keep on drinking, I'm going to get addicted. Right. And the subconscious part of your mind says, we're safe.

Yeah.

Story, Right?

Yes.

It wants to stop the pain now. And pain is such a powerful message. So I, I tell a story I found during my research. I thought this was fascinating, is a German sniper wrote this article. And, and during World War II, he said when they fought against the Russians, the Russians didn't have a lot of weapons. They had a lot of people, but they were limited in terms of weapons. So their strategy was to charge at the German lines to overwhelm them. Right. And some of them would get through, get into the bunkers, overtake the Germans and get their weapons. Okay. So his job as a sniper was to shoot them. And he says, but we would shoot them and then another wave would come. And that was endless, wave after wave after wave. He says, and then I figured out the way to stop them. He says, I didn't kill them. I shot them in the stomach.

Now all these Russian comrades are lying on the ground screaming in pain because that's the most painful place to get shot. Oh, that was a bigger deterrent than death.

That is really fascinating.

That's the power of pain. So power. The power of pain, death. Like even when people talk about suicide. Right. Subconscious people say, how could they possibly have committed suicide? Well, the logical part of the brain would know I'm gonna die. The subconscious part of the mind would say, I can stop the pain.

Yeah. Yeah.

And doesn't see the consequence to it because it's logically. Doesn't make any sense why this person could do that.

Yes.

It's not a logical decision It's a survival decision about pain that stops the pain now. Right. Death does not look like a consequence to that. It's the pain that it wants to stop.

Yes.

And that's why they can commit suicide. Right. When it doesn't make any sense.

Right.

Yeah. Yes.

And I think learning that what you just shared is really valuable to help people understand. I had a therapist help me to understand that when my ex husband committed suicide. And yeah. And it was. It was powerful to understand because we want to take on the blame. We want to, you know, we don't understand it. How could they do this to the kids? You know, how could they do this to me? And it was like, it's not about me.

It's not.

It's about the pain.

It's about the pain.

Oh, thank you for sharing that.

Yeah. I had a father that has same thing. He talked about his daughter. She was 15 years of age. The mother had a lot of addiction issues. So they. He was really raising her. Right. And. But she would go to the mother every once in a while. But anyway, he had her. And he says, we went out for the day, we went to a movie, we had a great time. We came home, we were baking cookies. Everything was great. And I said, well, the cookies are in the oven. And she says, I'm tired, I'm going to go to bed. She went to bed. And so the cookies got ready and he thought, I'll go up, maybe she hasn't fallen asleep yet and I'll take her up some cookies. And she committed suicide. And he was like, how could we be laughing in the kitchen right. In one moment and then her take her life? Right. She had no other resource. She hadn't found anything. Even her mother's addiction was. Was not a resource to stop the pain temporarily. It was. But she could see that her mother was an addiction because she was in pain. The addiction really wasn't stopping it. She had no other alternative. She wasn't trying to leave her father.

Right.

Which is the first thing that you think of. Why would they do this to me? Why would they leave me? Right. But it was never about them. It was about the pain.

Right.

And the extents will go to stop pain.

Yes. It's powerful. Thank you for sharing that story.

Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, I deal with a lot of people who have that, you know, and I'm sorry that that happened to your husband as well. But it explains a lot. Like I said, I've learned so much about how our brains are responding, how our minds are Responding to some of these things. And like I said, I never had any pain. I never had any kind of trauma happen to me. I've never had a drink in my life. Never touched a drug in my life even once. Wow. So it's not about my character or morals or willpower. It was about the pain. So when people say, well, how can you help people in addiction? You've never experienced, you know, addiction. How could you help people in addiction? Oh, because I know what the model is supposed to be. Right. We should be living without that pain. Right. But trauma. Right. Builds codes and trauma loops. And so that trauma loop, creating that pain. Right. They look for a way to stop the pain. And somebody says, well, why would somebody use drugs and alcohol? And I said, you know why? Because it works.

Yes. Yes. Temporarily.

Yep. But when does the mind want the pain to stop?

Right now.

Solve the problem.

Exactly.

So becomes a resource. And then we want to shame them and guilt them and say, what's wrong with you? Why would you do this to your family? Right. They're not doing it to their family. Right. They don't have any other resource.

No.

And so they look for a way to stop their pain. That's human nature.

Yes. Yes. That's beautiful. Thank you.

You're welcome. Yep.

Yeah.

So we're getting a lot of people out of addiction by taking that kind of an approach to it. The first thing I say to everybody when they come in, Brenda, is I say, there's nothing wrong with you and there's nothing wrong with your mind.

Oh, I love it.

Mine works perfectly fine. You have developed some behaviors and codes and patterns to protect you from pain. Yes. If I lived your life the way you lived your life, I'd be doing either the exact same thing or something similar.

Yes.

How could I not?

Yes. I had a. I run an eight week course that we do on self forgiveness. And I, the participants that I have in there now, I always share with them something like you. I don't use the word coding. I love that, by the way, because it simplifies it. And. But it's like when I say to them, you're not broken.

Yes.

You're not broken.

Yep.

There are just some behaviors and patterns and defense mechanisms that our brain has made up for us and to protect our heart. Right. And tears. Oh.

Always tears. You know, there's so many tears over not being broken. Like you just said, there's nothing wrong with you. It's. I think the more we can spread this message that more people need to.

Hear that when people Come in, they'll say I sabotage myself. What I say is, it's impossible. The brain can't sabotage itself. It's a survival mechanism. It's protecting you, it's changing you in a protect and a pattern to get away from pain, right? To stop pain. So people say, well, I'm doing, I'm going really well. Everything, my career is going great. And then I go and do something stupid. Why would I do that if it's not sabotage? And I said, because your brain, right, Your mind, right. Saw danger in whatever your path you were on. And I'll give you a great example.

Yeah.

I had a guy who, very, very successful business owner. So high functioning people have this problem. Everybody, oh, it's only people who have, you know, these dysfunctional ways they operate. It's not, it's high functioning. I have world class athletes, executives, CEOs that I work with. So I had one guy come in, he makes $2 million a year trading options, derivatives in the stock market. Pretty successful guy.

Yeah.

Nobody's going to feel sorry this guy's only making $2 million. But what he said to me, he goes, every time I get to the fourth quarter, he says, I shut down. I lose all my motivation. I can't seem to get motivated to go to work. And my two partners, I leave them with the bulk of the work. And he says, I feel bad about it. He says, I try to work around it. I say, I'll just take two weeks off, I'll go on a trip and then I'll come back and I'll be re. Energized. Right. He says it never works. There's nothing I can do that can get me motivated in the fourth quarter. So we examined everything and what it came back to is something this simple. And he never thought about it. His father was his hero. His father was a very successful business owner. Right. Made a lot of money, but went bankrupt four times. And he said we would fly in private jets and then move in the middle of the night because we were being chased by creditors, we'd be back in private jets, be back to moving in the middle of the night four times as a child. Wow. So what his mind was doing is when he got to a certain level of success his mind was distracting him from. Right. Now the reason why that doesn't look like sabotage is because he made $2 million. But he's describing it as, it feels like sabotage.

Yeah, right.

But it wasn't sabotage. It was protection. Don't get too far because you could lose it. All. Yes, he was protected himself. Yes, that's it.

Amazing.

It's amazing how the mind work. It's funny, I just had a client go through that same thing. When she got to a certain level bank account, she would, she called it sabotage herself.

Yeah.

And because. And then figuring, you know, going through, it's like what, what's here? And going through this process. Oh, her mother would always would. Yeah. Same kind of thing. Would go bankrupt at a certain level. So she was telling her, never have more than this much money.

Yeah.

And she didn't remember that?

No, no. Simple things like that. All the way to another client. She was 4 years of age, her sister was 10. And then they had a young baby sister.

Okay.

The parents went out one night and the father hired an 18 year old young man from his work to babysit them.

Okay.

Never hired this guy before. So the parents left and then this 18 year old tried to sexually assault the 10 year old.

Oh.

And so the 10 year old was smart enough to say, don't do this in front of my sisters, let me put them away. And she got them away and then locked them all in the bathroom. And he couldn't get in. He was standing on the door trying to get in. And so she said, but he couldn't get in. And then event they were in there for a couple hours.

Oh.

And then when the parents came home, this guy bolted pretty quickly. And then they came out and they told their parents. And so she said, I've been angry with my parents ever since that day. They didn't believe us. And I said, so how do you mean they didn't believe you? They said they did nothing about it and we never talked about it again. And so I said, so nothing ever happened? She goes, no, she goes, I've still been angry about that over all those years. And I said, and how old were you again? And she says I was four. So what I said to her is, I said, I don't know what happened. But let me just ask you this question. Is it possible your parents did do something, you just didn't know it? Is it possible he got arrested? There was never a trial, you never got asked to testify. The guy just confessed and he got prison time. Right. Or he got, you know, whatever happened to him but your parents never talked about it and nobody ever talked about to a four year old?

Yeah.

Is that possible? Not saying it's true. Is it possible? And as she thought about, she goes, yeah, that could, could be possible. And I said, did he ever see him again? Did he ever babysit again? She goes, no. I said, you ever see him working at your dad's business again? She goes, no. I said, so it may be possible that they did believe you, but just never knew how to talk about it to a four year old.

That helped her forgive her parents.

Yes.

She couldn't see that because she's stuck in the story.

That's powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's the power of like witnessing a story. That's what I call witnessing when I'm witnessing something like that and help them kind of shift that perception. Did have you thought of it this way? Is so good because it just, you know, it's like that lens, right? We change the aperture of the camera lens to be able to go, oh, never thought of that, Don. That's powerful.

Yeah. And the key is what we do is as we take them through this process, we have them in a restorative mindset. And the mind is willing to accept change when it feels safe.

Yes.

Right. And so when it feels safe, it'll look at different ways of thinking, different ways of processing, and that's where the healing starts to take place. And we can reset the memory. That's basically what we're doing, is resetting the memory.

Oh, I love that.

High definition into low definition. So the mind no longer responds to it. Now it's just data, right? Yeah.

Oh, thank you for sharing that.

Well, Brenda, it's been amazing to have you on. I love what you're doing and congratulations on helping so many people.

Thank you.

So if people are interested in learning more about you and your program and your process, how do they find you? Can you give it? And we'll put it in the notes as well. But maybe you can just share it.

Yeah, they can go to my website, Brenda at Brenda Reese R E I s s coaching.com and that has the blogs that I also has my podcast. I have a Forgive Yourself podcast that's on all of the podcast apps. They can also access it there and all the programs are there. And then social media for Brenda Reese, coach, if they want to just kind of tap into what I share and the information that's out there.

Awesome. I encourage everybody to do that because it's a powerful resource. So, Brenda, thank you so much for spending some time and sharing your wisdom on. On our podcast and any questions, any thoughts before we we wrap up?

No. I love what you're doing, dawn, and I'm so grateful that we got to meet and I got to learn more. You know, I've learned a lot today. Myself and forgiveness. I love how we're approaching it differently right we're coming at it a little bit differently but also the same. So that's what I notice is and each technique or modality, you know it's, it's different but we need to come at it. It's not just a one time thing for me, you know it's not just a one, one stop shop. So for all of us to be able to have access to these kind, this kind of information is powerful and forgiveness is key. It's so key to helping us to move forward in our lives as, as one of the components right with it like you were saying, trauma healing the trauma, forgiving ourselves and others so that we can live the life that we're meant to live. But thank you.

Well thanks so much and thanks everybody for listening to another episode of you must be out of your mind. And there it is.