101 - The Ins and Outs of Influencer and Celebrity Management with Little Red Management's Courtney Bagby Lupilin

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Courtney Bagmay Lupilan, you are the founder and CEO of Little Red Management, which can be found at littleredmanagement.com. .com. You are one of the most interesting young people I've met in a long time because you are all about influencer celebrities. Tell us your backstory.

Yeah, well, so I mean, where do I begin? Um, it's, it's kind of been a whirlwind, um, and crazy to think that, um, I work with all of my favorite, like, reality stars and people that I used to watch on TV and like can actually text them and FaceTime them if I wanted to, which is super cool. But I really, you know, when I was in college, so this was back 2015, it was kind of the first year, Doug, where like people from reality TV were actually getting a following on Instagram. And like Instagram was still fairly new. Like I think it was like, 3, 4 years in the making, and people were like starting to get a following, and marketers were starting to realize that like this could be like a new outlet for marketing, right? And I studied advertising at the time at University of Colorado in Boulder, and I was always super into social media. All of my like internships were all like social media coordinator, marketing coordinator, things like that. And it wasn't until I would say, God, what year was that? It was like, I wanna say like 2014. Someone told me that there was like a meet and greet with like Demi Lovato in LA. And I was like, oh my God, like I'm from the Bay Area. So it's like a 6-hour drive to LA just for reference. And I was like, and this was again when I was in Colorado and they were like, oh, Demi Lovato, like around Thanksgiving break. Like, like you could go meet her. And I was like, oh my God, she's my favorite, like I want to go. So I like dragged my friend with me, drove 6 hours to LA, and like ended up meeting her and like ran into all of these people from one of my favorite TV shows, X Factor. Sorry, X Factor at the time. I don't— did you ever watch that?

I don't watch television, but I'm aware of the show.

Oh my goodness, I haven't owned a television set in 40 years. Oh my, so you don't even know any of the people I'm going to talk about. I'm just kidding.

That's all right, you're excited about it and that's the most important thing.

Ah, um, yeah, so like we ended up, um, we ended up like going to the movie theater and like meeting the whole cast of the show and I just had never felt that kind of high in my life, like just meeting celebrities and like taking selfies and just like, I guess the, the reactions that you get from people when you tell them who you just met, you know, and like everyone telling you how cool it is and like that just like never gets old. Honestly, even to this day, like doesn't get old. Like even taking pictures with someone that you're excited about and like showing other people. But no, that's like when I realized that that's what I wanted to do. And I was just kind of Doug Noll all about like figuring out how to get there. So that was kind of—

so starting from there to getting your own management company going where you're managing these celebrities.

Yeah.

How did that, how did that happen?

Yeah, so I ended up like working in tech for a few years, super random, for 3 3 years, and after a while, um, I moved down to LA. And in the meantime of like working in my tech company, at the time, at my tech company, at the tech company, I would DM these influencers and like try to befriend them and offer to volunteer and like create their website for them and like do design work and create a media kit and like all these sort of things that I offered to do for free, right? Of like to just like build that connection. Um, and I ended up finally like being ready to move to LA, and that was 2018, so 5 and a half years ago. And, um, I got a job at a talent agency, worked there for a year, and worked like— learned all about like more about celebrity endorsements and how that all worked, and it was super amazing. And you know, they just didn't want to work, like weren't super open with working with reality TV talent, and that's what I wanted to do. Um, so that was kind of the sign, like I knew, I would say, Doug, like personally I probably knew about like 8 reality stars. Um, and I ended up like essentially being like, hey, can I pitch you and make you money? And like, who's gonna say no? You know, I was like, I can't hear you. Oh no, you're good now.

Okay. Um, so you asked people whether or not you could, you could represent them.

Yeah, I mean, I asked people if I could pitch them to try to make them money.

Okay, got it.

And, and that was like early on where like I was just trying to get a hold of everyone and anyone so that I could essentially pitch them and make them money.

That takes a lot of guts.

I know, that's what I've been learning about myself lately, is that apparently that's not something everyone would do.

And you would go to these major companies, potential sponsors and brands, and say, hey, I got, I got somebody that I think could really be great in your influencer campaign. What do you think?

Literally, yes.

And then you'd negotiate a deal.

Yeah. And like, I work— I know. And I work— I worked at an agency for years, so like, I kind of saw it, but like, it definitely was a lot of like And it still is, Doug, like with pricing and stuff and negotiations, like I'm still learning every day, like, because there's no like right or wrong answer for negotiations. You know what I mean?

So, but this, this can be technical stuff. I mean, do you have, do you hire lawyers or, I mean, how do you handle the contract details?

Yeah. So I do, it was crazy cuz I actually did a lot of even though I'm not a lawyer, I did a lot of, I guess, like redlining, like in general for like what to look for, for social media partnerships, because a lot of them can be like anywhere from like a $200 partnership to like a $10,000 partnership, maybe more. Right. But like, it is tricky because like it is the talent's job legally, like, it is the talent's job to review each contract they sign and hire their own lawyer. So I can do my best to guide them and read it, but like, I am not responsible for what the contract says. Like, and I know, I feel like I know a lot these days, right? And like, I know what to look for and all that, but I'm not a lawyer, right?

You can't practice law. You can't give advice.

No. And I, and I have a lawyer, an internal lawyer here at Little Red Management that we refer to for basically everything that comes down to like really big deals and when I need them. But for the most part, if it's a big deal, the client is technically should get a lawyer if they want a lawyer to look at it. Wow. Yeah.

So anyways, in this 5 or 6 years, you've built up this big enterprise. How many, how many celebrities do you have?

A big enterprise.

Wow. Well, you're big names and you've done some big deals, right?

Yeah.

All right, I call that a big enterprise. What do you call it?

Um, a small business.

I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Yeah, right.

But I mean, you, you represent some pretty big people. Right.

Yeah.

Well, so, and you put together some pretty big deals, like we're talking big deals.

Yeah. No, I mean, I've worked with honestly almost any big brand that you can think of. McDonald's, Nike, Macy's, I don't know, Burger King, any Coca-Cola. Like I've done multiple campaigns with all of these brands and agencies and um, with a variety of different clients just depending on what they're looking for, you know.

So good for you. So what is it that gets you really excited in the morning, Courtney?

All the unread emails. I'm just kidding. Um, you know, I always wanted to be— my dream job, which I know you've never seen this movie, so you're not gonna—

that's all right, just Tommy is an older guy.

So, well, so there's this movie. Have you heard of Freaky Friday?

Freaky Friday? I've heard of it, but I—

okay, there was like this mom in it that had like 10 different phones and like was— they were all ringing at the same time. And I was like, I want to be that girl. So I think I just like always wanted to be busy and like in chaos. And I think it is funny that I'm saying like what makes me happy in the mornings like is unread emails, but like It's kind of true. Like, one of those emails could be a huge deal, you know? And like, you never know when the next big deal is going to be. Like, that's what's insane, right? Like, whether I'm reaching out trying to make these deals happen or they're coming to me, like, you just never know when they're going to happen. And I think, like, I mean, really what I wish I could do all day long if I didn't have to coordinate a lot of these campaigns that were already going on, which I'm super thankful for. But, and I have a team, a team that helps me with this, but like, I wish I could spend all day taking like a client, for example, spend an hour like pitching just them and brands that make sense for just them. Like right now, today, you know, and like reaching out and pitching them for an hour, then taking the next one, pitching them for an hour and like literally doing specific outreach. Cause every client is different and like, could appeal to different brands. And I just wish, and I will get there, where like I have more time to really hone in and like pitch those people for specific things.

I, I see a lot of things that are unique about you, but what do you think is unique about you that you bring the table to the table that makes you so successful in such a short period of time?

Hmm, I mean, it's so hard because I feel like more like honestly just me like caring and being like emotionally invested in each one of my clients. Like I think it's a really big deal in this industry because a lot of people separate that emotional relationship between like a client and manager, client agent, whatever you want to call it, and um, you know, they're just trying to make money, maybe whatever. And like, for me, it's like I really care about like each individual client, and I know that that's what's brought me closer to the talent side of things. And then I honestly think even like me, because like obviously getting, you know, the brands are the— and the agencies are the ones paying me, right, and paying our talent. So like with that, I just feel like I always try to be memorable and like personable and like care about them. And like, oh, and I do, like, I'm always like, okay, like, I want to see you get married on Instagram, like, let's follow each other, like, what's going on, where are you from, like, always just super personable when it comes to like knowing anybody and talking to anybody and like not just being dry.

Well, you have a lot of, you have a lot of energy, and I suspect you're an extrovert. Uh, and you really didn't know? No one's ever told that to you before, huh?

No, never. I'm an introvert. What do you mean?

Uh-huh. Right. Uh, um, so tell me about the importance of listening in your work.

Yeah, I mean, look, I wish that my clients listened more to me. You know, when I think about that, it's so funny because I was, I was talking to my employees today about sort of like every other week we kind of go through this thing of like, what was the highlight from the past 2 weeks and what was something that was like not great? And, and like, how can we improve it kind of, you know? And the thing this week, and I know that this like doesn't totally apply to me personally, but like I constantly feel like every time we have a campaign, Doug, like, and I'm wanting content from clients, like, I feel like it's almost like they're not listening to me, like, in the sense of, like, due dates, post dates, what I need done from them, like, and, and I try to make it so clear, like, I feel like I'm one of the most organized managers that can be out there, like, with just, here's the content due date, here's the post date, here's all this, like, I am so transparent about that stuff, and so I just like talked to my team today because I was like, I feel like I'm like a mom pestering their children to get their homework done. Like, why is, why is that these 25-year-old, 30-year-old, whatever-year-old people need me to hold their damn hand to get their content done?

They're, they're, they're on social media and influencers for a reason, and that's because they're highly creative. And they go moment to moment and they don't think ahead. And social media is perfect for that. They have an impulse, they pick up the camera, they shoot a little video, they post it, and they go on. And that's, that's who they are. If they were just— if they were disciplined and focused people, they'd be working for McKinsey or KMPG, right?

Well, you know, it's funny that you say that because This is the exact same conversation that I actually had with a friend like 2 weeks ago, was kind of like, they have the right, whatever it is, like the right side of the brain and like the creative side that like the organization is gone. It's not there, but it's hard because the ones that like are organized are the one that's, that are making so much money on social media. Like the ones that really have their shit together and have like a content calendar.

Like, look at Taylor Swift. She's in LA, right? And I mean, this is a billion-dollar-plus tour. She's one of the smartest young women I've ever heard of, and she's, she's a very, very smart young woman, uh, and disciplined. And she's not— she's knocking it out of the park. So you're right, if you've got the creative instinct And you've got the discipline, killer. But if you've only got the creative, then you can do okay.

Yeah. Like, cuz I can't, you know, I can't sit there and edit for 3 hours and take content for 3 hours. Like, I don't wanna do that. You know? I mean, hence why I'm behind the computer for them, but it's just hard, Doug, when you like feel like you give every little thing to someone to get something done and they still can't get it done, you know?

No, it's— that's very frustrating.

Yeah, but that's what listening means to me. And the first thing that came up to me, like, when you said that.

So if you think about you're working with creatives and talented people, how much chaos do you see around you? Is that just typical?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I was like, I don't know if I'm the one that starts the chaos or talent. Um, you know, it is like very rare to like not have a chaotic day, like, and everything just go right, I guess. Like, for example, a client today like doesn't have product, like, and he had to reshoot content and like we cannot buy the product anywhere within where he's located and content is due today. And I gave him, he had to do the content since Monday, Doug. So if I knew that he didn't have product, I could have overnighted him product and he could have gotten it done on time. But now we're dealing with a situation where I might have to go pick it up in LA somewhere, overnight it to him in Chicago. I mean, it's like, that's just one point of chaos that happened to me today, like one thing. And I'm like texting my assistant to call, you know, every store in Chicago to see where it is. I mean, it's like But that's one little thing. I mean, there's always things where like if someone posts wrong, you know, like on Instagram, I have to have them delete it and repost. Or maybe someone's not happy with an edit that the brand made. Maybe we have to reshoot. Maybe a campaign was canceled and I have to provide the bad news that it was canceled. Um, there's—

so you deal with a lot of emotions.

I'm just waiting. Yeah. And I wonder why recently I've been like sort of on edge. Like, I feel like my personality has been sort of on edge recently.

They can get to you after a while.

Yeah, I think that that's kind of what's happening. And I honestly wish— and maybe throughout my career, like, I'm still— I feel like early on, so like I'm hoping throughout my career I just like don't care Well, that's— I hope I don't care as much.

That's unfortunately what happens in the business, in the entertainment business, is people become very cynical. But there's— there, I think there are ways around that.

Yeah, what do you think? What are some tips?

I think that— I think, you know, I don't know if you know anything about my background and if you watched any of the videos, any of that stuff, but I'm a lawyer turned peacemaker.

I did— I did know the lawyer thing.

Yeah, and what I've learned is that when you learn how to listen to emotions Magical things happen with people. So for example, you have a situation with, uh, one of your clients, and they tend to— they get really emotional about something. All you need to do is listen to and reflect what they're feeling, and they'll calm down. And that's when they can listen. And that takes all the stress off of you, because you know, no matter how intense the situation, you know exactly what to say. And how to say it, and you know exactly what the outcome is going to be. And that's the power of listening.

Yeah, so more so like if they're complaining about something.

That's right. It's not about— you would say something, oh, you're really frustrated, you're really upset, and you don't feel listened to, you don't feel respected, you feel completely unappreciated and unsupported, and you're a little pissed off. And you're a little worried and concerned, and you're distressed and upset. And in some cases, you might say you feel a little abandoned, a little rejected. And then that drops their emotions down to ground zero immediately.

Yeah. So, okay, I'm gonna try it next time. Doug, I need someone to do that to me too, though.

Well, there you go. There we go. All right, one last question. I'll let you go.

Oh my God, you're the best.

What's one thing about you, Courtney, that we would never know unless you revealed it to us?

Oh God, it's so funny. I like came up with this. It's just a silly fun fact, right, Doug?

That's it.

Okay. Cause I came up with two this morning. We did this for our team meeting actually, because I have a new employee. Um, I put one that I wasn't Irish because I think people like assume I'm Irish.

Uh-huh.

Um, and the other one was like I went to a Catholic all-girl high school.

Where? Oh, oh, you did? Okay, in San Francisco?

Near San Francisco. It was like more like college prep, and I'm not really religious or anything, so I feel like—

well, there we go.

I meet people now, it's kind of random. And I met my fiancé, soon to be husband, on MySpace when we were 13, which is kind of fun. Yeah, that's different. Let's just say social media goes way back for me.

MySpace, that's, that's way back. All right, well, thank you so much for your time.

This has been a really amazing interview.

You are an amazing young woman, and you are—

oh, thank you—

continue to be successful.

Thank you.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would you think would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.