109 - The Most Transparent and Ethical Gold Exchange in the Country with Alloy Market's Brandon Aversano

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Brandon Aversano, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the CEO of The Alloy Market, and the website is thealloymarket.com. Thanks for joining me.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Tell us a little bit about your backstory before we get into what you do and who you are.

Yeah, absolutely. So I've been kind of bouncing around corporate America for a little over a decade. I started my career in management consulting based in DC with Deloitte, working primarily with the federal government doing human-centered design work actually. So I spent the first couple of years of my career traveling the country and speaking with veterans actually, and interviewing them and then designing new products and services at the Department of Veterans Affairs for veterans. So that was really exciting, and that was kind of my introduction to product design. Um, from there I jumped ship, or I should say plane, uh, to JetBlue Airways, uh, and worked for the CEO and the Chief Strategy Officer on, uh, ad hoc projects sort of across the organization. Um, but then ultimately had a, a really fortuitous opportunity to launch an internal startup. And I worked closely with a very small team to essentially carve out all of JetBlue's non-air ancillary products into a wholly owned subsidiary that's down in Fort Lauderdale. So moved down to Florida for a little while, actually worked at the subsidiary for a year or two, and then made my way back up north to JPMorgan Chase, where I was serving as the Vice President of Business Development. And then that's kind of what led me to Alloy. I was actually diagnosed with cancer about a year and a half ago. And so that's sort of what led me to where I am now. So that's a little bit about me.

Wow. So tell us about the alloy market.

Yeah, I would love to. I'm a little bit, just a little bit passionate about it, if you can't tell.

But a little bit of energy there.

Yeah, a little bit. So unfortunately, I was diagnosed with cancer in September of 2022, and When I was diagnosed, I was working at JP Morgan and had to take some time off for disability. And so my income was pretty severely depressed, and I decided to sell some of my gold jewelry that I had inherited from my grandmother who had passed a year prior. And the experience was horrible, to say the least. I was living in Philadelphia at the time, so I took it to a couple of jewelry stores and pawn shops in person. And I was bullied and intimidated into selling the items for far less than I knew they were worth. And so I ended up not selling them. And then I took a look online and, you know, the solutions that are out there feel very similar to what exists in the brick-and-mortar world. It kind of just feels like an online pawn shop. And so what we decided to do, what I decided to do, was take a step back and recognize this problem for what it is, and that is there is no good solution for folks, regular folks, to quickly and easily exchange their gold or other precious metal, um, for cash with a company that's transparent and ethical. Uh, and so we created sort of the first brand-led, uh, gold exchange in the country, um, and we've introduced a whole bunch of new customer-friendly features. Uh, and so by solving the problem for me, I was really hoping to solve it for others.

And I hope you got through your cancer problems okay.

I did. I was just at University of Pennsylvania Hospital earlier this week, and I'm still in the clear, so that's a good thing.

That's really great. Good for you. So the, so the alloy market is designed for a place where somebody's got an heirloom and they, they've got to sell it because they need cash. Um, they would go to the alloy market, and here's a clean, safe, transparent place where they can get cash for gold.

Correct. That is correct. And, you know, one of the things that we really pride ourselves on is transparency. And, uh, you know, we, we kind of landed on transparency because we saw that there was a gap in the market, right? And so what I mean by we, we pride ourselves on transparency is that we're introducing features and benefits to customers that have never been seen in the industry before. So let me give you an example. So if you were to go online right now, not on Alloy, and attempted to sell any gold piece, so let's say it's like a 14-karat gold men's wedding band. In order for you to get a quote, you would actually have to send in your item to the company, and then they would likely underquote you, and then someone on the phone would go back and forth with you until you got to a final offer. And then you would accept your payout. What we've actually done is empowered consumers. And so we actually put the power of estimates in consumers' hands. So you can be in your pajamas watching Netflix and get the estimate from the comfort of your own home. So if you were to download our mobile application right now, 10 seconds, you could get an estimate, highly accurate, 100%, what Alloy Market would pay you out if we had that asset in our hands today. And so that is an industry first. That does not exist anywhere else today. And we're really, really excited about that. And then the second way we kind of bring Transparency to life is we video record all of our appraisals from the moment the box arrives at our lab to the moment we make the final offer. So essentially the unboxing, um, the purity testing, which is a cool little X-ray machine, and the weighing is all done under camera. And our customers actually have access to that, so they know there's no funny business happening. They know they can actually see the appraisal. I like to say that it's almost like our customers are in the lab with us when we're making their final offer. So we really care about transparency and, you know, we're really excited to be bringing that to an industry and a market that needs it.

So the way this works is you get, you got your app on your phone and you, I assume, register and then put in the description of what you've got, what you think you've got, and maybe even a picture. And then you've got an algorithm that's able to assess that data and come back with a fairly accurate estimate of what the thing's worth and what Alloy is willing to pay for it.

Correct. You're 100% correct. As long as you put in accurate inputs, you get accurate outputs, right? So if you put in 24-karat gold ring and it's only 14-karat, your estimate would be slightly off, but it's as accurate as your inputs are.

Okay. Yeah, that had to be an interesting algorithm to develop.

Yeah, it took a long time. And I'm working with such an incredible team, so many smart people. And so, you know, we took a step back, we did a ton of secret shopping in the industry, and then kind of built our algorithm and our payout standards based on that.

Got it. And then people still have to ship their, whatever it is, heirloom, say, ring, they still ship it to Alloy, and then Alloy tests it to make and verifies that it's as represented. And then if so, then the offer is made. And the offer is usually what— assuming the item is accurate, the offer is almost— is very usually very close to the estimate, correct?

Yep, nail on the head. You got it.

And then, and then if they say yes, then you keep the— Alloy keeps the, the ring and the cash goes to the customer.

Correct. Yep. And we've introduced a whole bunch of payout options too, which is really great to see. And it's very interesting to see how customers kind of have strong preferences when it comes to how they get paid out. And so we're really excited to bring all sorts of payout methods to the market. You know, we use Zelle, PayPal, Venmo, ACH, direct deposit. And, you know, that's one of our differentiators as well.

So, so people can choose how to get paid.

Yeah.

How's it, how, how long, when was the app launched?

So we launched sort of our ideal tech, or I should say MVP, but it was better than what it was before in June of this year.

Okay.

And so it really hasn't been that long. It's been about a month and a half since the new tech rolled out. And it's been just an incredible, incredible journey so far. Of course, like any startup, there's been kinks in the road and, you know, we've worked them out. We've had a lot of great customers teach us things. And be super patient along the way. So that's been excellent. But yeah, I would say we've been, we've been sort of live in the market for about a month and a half.

And you're getting some traction on people using the service?

Yes, almost too many. I don't want to say too many, but yeah, so people are using the service. The demand is, is exceptional. We were not— we 13x'd our first month projections. So Yeah, we're getting a lot more traction than we thought. And, you know, customers, when they have a set of options and they see Alloy versus their other options to sell their piece, I think for them it's a, it's an easy choice, you know.

So how do you make your money?

Great question. I mean, we don't just pay people. No, we, we've actually contracted with some of the largest industrial refineries in the United States. And so they are contracted to buy all of our precious scrap metal, and they essentially melt it down, refine it, and then sell it to buyers who use it in electric vehicles, healthcare equipment, other jewelry, electronics, et cetera.

Okay. And how do you get paid? Is there a difference between what you pay out versus what you sell it for? Is that where Arbitraging the cost of the gold or the silver?

Yeah, yes, yes, exactly. So, you know, a little bit of research, you'll kind of turn up that folks can typically expect to get, you know, maybe 50% of the melt value depending on where they go. Um, and I'm not going to give you the exact percentage, but I'll tell you, you know, we're significantly higher up, up at the top end of that, um, in terms of payouts. And then, uh, yeah, that spread is where we make our money.

Well, good for you. So what is it that gets you excited every day to get up and do this work when you were formerly a high-paid, high-flying consultant?

Yeah, well, I'm super poor and don't have an income right now, so it's definitely not the money. Honestly, my team yells at me because I end up talking to customers too often and I should be focused on other things, but I love chatting with our customers. Last weekend, a couple weekends ago actually, we'll call him Joe, a customer named Joe, is a fictitious name, rang me up, rang Alloy up, and, you know, he was a little bit skeptical, which a lot of customers are, but we look at that as like a challenge and an opportunity and an opportunity to kind of make them feel better and reassure them. And this gentleman shared with me that he just got out of the hospital. He has been in cancer treatment for 3 months, and he is looking to sell his prized men's signet ring to help pay down his medical bills. And, you know, for me, that was like a really kind of full circle humbling moment because here's this gentleman who's a complete stranger who I just happened to be answering, you know, the Alloy corporate customer service number over the weekend. And he's a very similar story than mine. And, you know, it was just a really, a really incredible experience to be able to know that unlike my experience, Joe was going to be taken care of.. And so that, that gets me outta bed all the time. We have customers like that daily.

Wow.

Hmm.

And what do you think it is that's unique about you that you bring to the table that's made this venture successful so far?

Uh, well, it's kind of like the name of your podcast. Um, I'm, I'm just a listener, uh, really. And I, and I think that's kind of what my, my team would share with you also is that, um, I tend to do a lot more listening than I do talking. And I think that has, uh, you know, sort of sort of enabled me to be successful in the ways that I have. Because at, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about teamwork. And so if you're not kind of paying attention and listening to your folks, you're not going to get anything done.

Well, that kind of feeds into my next question about listening. But let me preface it by saying that I teach listening at very different levels, but I've kind of— I'm isolating listening now into Type 1 listening and Type 2 listening. Type 1 listening is the kind of listening that we all engage in. We're asking questions and maybe we're listening, maybe we're not. I mean, if we're really engaged, we're gonna paraphrase and reflect and, and really try to get information. In ordinary conversation, we're listening normally, we're not listening, we're formulating what we're gonna say next. That's typical everyday Type 1 listening. Then there, and, and Type 1 listening is listener-focused. It's what I want to get outta the conversation, what I'm trying to learn. Because maybe I need to make a decision. Type 2 listening is very different. Type 2 listening is speaker-centric. So we want to listen from, from the frame of reference of the speaker. And this is why I think it would be interesting to get your reflection on this. In, in, when we're listening in Type 2 listening, one of the types of listening is called affect labeling, where we're listening to the emotions of the speaker and we are reflecting the speaker's emotional experience as they're talking. And what The science shows is that when we do this, the brain literally calms down and people feel validated, they feel heard, they feel safe. And in that kind of listening, it's not about me, the listener, at all. It's about me making sure that you, the speaker, are feeling heard, listened to, validated, and appreciated for who you are. Yeah. And as you think about that, how do you see those, those different types of listening playing into the work that your people will be doing as you grow and have more people talking to customers?

Yeah, I think it's an excellent question. You know, I think I wasn't quite aware or I didn't, I did not properly account for sort of the level of human touch required in this industry. But Since launching, you know, we've, we've spoken to a whole bunch of customers, hundreds of customers. And you know, what I found is that they just want to feel heard and validated and connected with, you know? And so one of the things that we teach our small but mighty customer service team to do today is to pause even when it's uncomfortable because folks typically fill in the space, right? And if we can learn just a little bit more about why a customer is coming to Alloy or is choosing Alloy, we can go that extra mile to deliver an exceptional experience. And honestly, like my, the Joe example from a couple weekends ago that I called, you know, by kind of putting myself in his position, frankly, I had been in his position, but by really kind of validating him and listening to his story, you know, I think it went a long way, not only in terms of his kind of trust in the company, but really just in his sense of self. And that means a lot to us. You know, we're, we're, we're a human-first company.

I think that's really important. I mean, when I visited your website and looked at this, and I saw that, wow, empathy is, that's their stock and trade. And if they don't, if their customer service people don't have empathy, they're not going to do well.

Correct.

But if they are, if they can learn empathy, what I call cognitive empathy, um, then people are going to flock to them to the point— for the exact reason that you mentioned— that people are going to feel safe, they're going to be heard, they're going to be validated, they're going to feel appreciated, and finally somebody gets them, finally says who they are. Yeah, that relationship is more valuable than any other kind of relationship you can possibly have.

You are so right. We're actually, uh, we're launching a new program, so this is an exclusive, uh, we're launching a new program called Alloy Advisors. And every customer who converts on our website, so essentially, you know, you'd go on or in the mobile app, you put in some information, you will actually be assigned an individual who is your point of contact at Alloy.

Wow.

And while they might not be online 80 hours a week, they are your sort of window into our operation. They are there to help answer your questions. They are there to make you feel safe, secure, and heard. And so, you know, we're taking that sort of human touch, that empathic listening, that type 2 listening, kind of to the next level.

Excellent. I think that, I mean, because the people that are, it strikes me that the people that are going to be needing your services probably need money right now, and they are heartbroken that they have to let go of something that probably has a lot of meaning to them. And so they're anxious, they're nervous, they're upset, they're sad, grief-stricken. And they're feeling pretty much abandoned and unloved. And, and they, but they got to deal with it because they're just at a place in their lives where they need the cash.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's, um, I think one of the things that kind of energizes our customer service team is that every single one of them knows unequivocally that we are offering an ethical, transparent service and we are offering the highest payouts in the industry. And so I think that knowledge and that truth really goes a long way, because as our, as our customer service team makes those one-on-one connections with customers, they can be proud of the product that they're selling. They can be completely truthful and they can win, you know, they can really take care of those customers.

Yeah. So that, that would, yeah. So that, and if your people are feeling good about themselves, feeling like they're really providing a service and not ripping people off, and that makes them loyal to the company. And makes them more effective. Are you— are you— is your company pretty much remote, people all over the place?

Yeah, we're, we're up— yeah, kind of a pandemic-inspired company. People are all over the place.

And what's it look like? What's, what's growth look like to you?

In what sense?

Uh, just in the sense of expanding volume of, volume of business, uh, your reach, revenue, number of employees. Yeah, what's that going to look like?

Uh, well, maybe ask me again in a month or two when I have a better idea of what our actual volume is going to look like. I mean, look, since we've launched, we've, you know, grown sort of exponentially, uh, day over day. And so we're just in kind of like major planning mode. I, I, we're— what I mean, I'm knee-deep in the data every day. And so I know I'm not, um, directly answering your question, but we're trying not to jump to any jump to making any really big decisions until we just kind of have our baseline and we're learning what that baseline is right now.

Wow. Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, it's really exciting.

And how are people finding you?

Yeah, great question. So we are working on a combination of affiliate marketing, a heavy, heavy, heavy focus and emphasis on organic and SEO, and then paid ads. And so I would say our sort of primary channel in the short term is paid via Google. And, you know, we're working closely with some, some experts in this space to really kind of tailor that, those campaigns and that program to kind of capture the customers that we're looking to capture. And then with affiliate marketers, we're extremely proud to be partnering, you know, with other like companies and also with blogs and writers who are writing about this industry in this space and, you know, providing folks really kind of true insight into what options are good, what options, you know, you might want to take a second guess about. And so that's kind of how we're— it's like a 3-part approach at the moment. And that's primarily due to being cash-strapped. We'd like to be doing some more marketing, but, you know, we're taking it one day at a time.

How were you funded?

Bootstrap?

We are bootstrapped.

Good for you.

Yeah, yeah, we're trying, you know, our ultimate goal would of course be to go cash positive before sort of needing to raise. You know, we have a decent runway in front of us and so, you know, we would gladly partner with an investor, but we're definitely focused on trying to make this product the best it can be before doing a more formal raise.

So as you look back on the last 3 or 4 years of your life with everything that you've been through, considering, you know, where your professional career was going and where it is now, what are you thinking about all of this?

I ask myself that question every day. Look, when folks ask me, you know, how you feeling, how you doing, and this path it very much felt inevitable to me. Like when the idea struck, when, you know, when I was off because I was ill, when all of this sort of came together, it didn't really feel like a choice. It felt like I was in, you know, the right place at the right, right time. And I kind of had to walk that journey and walk that path. And so as, as hard and as stressful as it is to start a company, I very much feel like I'm in the right place and doing the right thing. And, you know, I'm just, I'm incredibly proud of the product that we're putting out there because I think it has already positively impacted lives. And at the end of the day, that's kind of what I'm most proud of.

Yeah, well, good for you. Well, one more question, I'll let you go. What's one, what's one thing about yourself, Brandon, that we would not have a clue about unless you revealed it to us?

Um, I'm actually an introvert.

I don't doubt that one bit.

How do you know? How could you? How could you? Could you tell, or you're just—

you're— believe it or not, I'm— I even as a former trial lawyer, I, I am an introvert. And let me, let me define that. Um, so from my perspective, I gain my energy from myself, from my inside. And so when I'm working with people, teaching, training, doing this, whatever, I'm pushing my energy out. So I am not sucking energy in. Extroverts are people who love to go to parties, they love to go to gatherings, they love to go to concerts. They pull, they grab energy from the crowd and pull it into themselves. Yes, I hate that.

I'm with you. I'm with you. So yeah, I think, you know, I think when I meet folks, they tend to think or assume that I'm an extrovert. But at the end of the day, I'm in bed by 9 o'clock with a book.

Itself. Exactly. It doesn't— you know, I think people get introverts confused. It's not that we can't speak and we can't be present and we can't be energetic. We can be. It's just where are we getting our energy and where, and where are we putting our energy? And so hearing that you're an introvert didn't surprise me in the least. That's too funny. All right, well, thank you so much for your time today, Brandon. I'm glad we finally got a chance to hook up and talk. I've really enjoyed learning about you and your company.

Thank you so much. It was, it was really a pleasure to be here.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this of you, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team.

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