116 - Unleashing Success: The Power of Kindness and Compassion in Business with Trusted Tech Team's Julian Hamood

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes.

So let's get started. Julian Hammoud, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the president and CEO of Trusted Team Tech, which can be found at trustedteamtech.com. Welcome to the show.

Doug, thank you. Thanks for having me.

I know in our Authority Magazine interview I learned a lot about you, but for my audience that hasn't read that amazing interview, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, your backstory?

Yeah, absolutely. So I started Trusted Tech Team going on 7 years now. I grew up in Southern California, went to Cal State Fullerton down here in the area as well, and I've been involved in Microsoft since I was around 14. I was a gamer, used to built computers, worked at a computer store, and that's how I really got some grounds on, you know, Microsoft licensing and started learning a little bit more in regards to the tech side of things, specifically on the software side of things. Again, when I was, you know, 14 to 18 was really my ramp-up period.

Wow. And so what does, what does Trusted Tech Team do? It looks like it's a licensing, it's a licensing platform. Is that what it is? Yeah.

Yeah. So we started back in 2017, we started licensing commercial entities. So anywhere from 100 employees and above. We started licensing them with Microsoft software solutions like SQL Server, Windows Server, even Microsoft Office, the on-prem versions of it. So I built that up. You know, we started first year, we ended up doing $5 million in revenue, and then every year we would triple in revenue. So we went $15 million second year, and then again, we were pushing $43 million just a few years ago and just continue to expand. So we started with just base level licensing for commercial entities, and now it's evolved into the cloud side of things. So we work with employees now minimum expectations 500 employees and above. So we'll do the cloud infrastructure under Azure and then we'll do their anything in the Microsoft licensing, whether it's security, whether it's of course the email hosting. So all the solutions and we work in US, Canada, and also now the UK.

How many employees do you have now?

We have a little over 200 or so now.

And you're based down in Southern California in Orange County.

We are, yeah. Yeah, I'm big on having everyone in office as well. So we have 31,000 square feet down here on the UCI campus, the big university down here. And then we just opened up an office in London as well, just east of Soho, if you're familiar with the area.

Uh-huh.

Wow.

And yeah, you're starting, you're just starting to penetrate the European market.

Yep.

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah. We, we had some solid traction in there last few months.

So you started this thing from nothing. What, what do you think are some of the biggest lessons you've learned in the last 7 years as you've grown this company from 0 to what, 7,000 employees, something like that?

Yeah, in regards to customers, so over 7,000 customers that are billing monthly now. And then of course we have over 80,000 customers that are more on the transactional side. So the one-off purchases. Every year I've learned something different. The first year was how to manage people. We had a small team, we had, you know, 8 employees and we were doing $5 million in revenue. So how to be conservative and to start, how to be cost conscious. We were in 250 square feet for the first 2 years, even though we're a $15 million company, we were bumping chairs with one another. And then as we scale again, start, you know, putting those resources down, looking at bigger players. It's all about the people you can, you know, attract to the company. I was doing all the sales for the first 2 or 3 years. I was underwater. I was like, I literally can't even interview top-level talent. Getting off that and then, you know, getting some all-star like a CRO and COO every year has just been fundamentally different. But yeah, from the get-go, it's just show up every single day. I was up at 5:15, 5 o'clock in the office. I was waking up at like 4:30. And I'd stay until 3 o'clock. I'll be the first one in, the last one out. I'd be always responding to customer emails. You name it, I was doing everything. Wow.

And so today, now that you see this phenomenal success, what is it that gets you really excited in the morning, gets you up out of bed going early to get there?

Yeah, I'm in the robotic mode right now, so I just get up and go. The most eventful, I think, for this year, of course, is how much we've been expanding and growing. In European market that's been really getting going. We're continuing to expand the sales team. We have so many different levers in place right now where I don't have to micromanage the team anymore. I have such awesome key players in place. I have 5 or 6 really, really strong key players that are handling most of the day-to-day. And now I'm focusing on most of the expansion. So it's so, so comfortable, especially after just being in the trenches for, you know, 5, 6 years, being able to peek my head outside and say, okay, here's the vision of the company, which is very, very unique.

Okay. And, and what is it that gets you all juiced up? I mean, you're obviously energetic and excited. What is it that gets you excited?

Yeah, my routine. I work out, I play golf, I'm a sommelier and trade just as a, as a hobby. So just very routine. I have to get up, I have to come to the office first thing in the morning. I'm still here around 5:15, but after I get a workout in, I work out 5 days a week. And again, it's just, it's the same routine. In bed by 7:30, 8:00, getting up at the same time, 4:30 or so. And then again, just the energy is maintained.

So you find that having these healthy habits really, really makes a difference for you? Yeah.

And one thing I never heard anyone say, and I'm big on podcasts, I've always looked at people for instruction as I was building my company. Gary Vaynerchuk was big on, you know, me growing into a CEO. One of the big things you really never hear is the routine prior to starting the business. So people come in and they're like, I want to start a good habit and I'll start working out. I want to start eating healthy. But whatever you take going into starting and developing a company is what you're going to get moving forward. It's very, very hard to create new habits once you start a company because of just how enduring the whole journey is. So since I was 18, 19 years old, I was always working out. I was counting calories. I always knew food really well. And again, going into the company, just having those healthy habits really, really saved me.

So that's an interesting point that I've never heard before. The habits that you have before before you start a company are the habits that you're gonna carry into the company.

Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't imagine starting healthy habits. If, if you, if you abuse alcohol and you start a company, it's gonna get even worse. If you're, you're down on yourself, if you lack self-confidence, it's just gonna get even worse. Those are, yeah. And that was something I never heard before until, you know, I started.

Really interesting. So what is it that's unique about you? That you bring to the table that's made the company so successful?

Yeah, I think the one trait that I have above and beyond is just my ability to attract people. I give out kindness, I give out compassion, I give out love just because I always received it growing up from my parents. And that's, I think, been my ability to retain, ability to meet new people and ability— going back to, you know, one of the last few questions was ability to bring in talent— has been by far the biggest thing of starting a company and going from, 0 to 100 just so rapidly is you need to be able to bring in people and you need to show compassion, you need to show kindness. You have an agenda, we all have an agenda, we need to push things forward, but continue to attract those people that are going to stay with you long term and just showing that family dynamic. It's very unfounded. In the last company I worked for, we always have those dynamics of ownership doesn't show up or management doesn't show up and people always remember that. That's what expectation is. So if you show up every day, you treat people with kindness, they're going They're gonna push the agenda much, much further and faster.

And how have you been so successful in recruiting your team? It sounds like you have an amazing team behind you.

Yeah, even showing up to the gym and putting a smile on my face years ago. This is probably going 8, 9 years ago. I met some kid at the gym. We were working out at 3 o'clock. I was at the last company, I was always up early as well. I was at a local gym, 3 o'clock in the afternoon, very odd time to meet people. And just showed up, always had a smile on my face, ended up dialoguing with him and he ended up coming aboard, you know, in 2020 or so as director of sales. And he's the one that started our entire like sales team here. And then another gentleman I met at a hotel, him and his wife in passing, we started talking, we met, he was from Scottsdale. We ended up talking about technology. I ended up just saying, hey, I'm gonna call you Tuesday, 8 o'clock, called him right on the dot and he's now our CRO. So just these small dynamics of meeting people, just showing face, always being kind, always being compassionate, You never know who you're gonna meet. Always look good, always be presentable no matter where you're going. If you're going to the airport or if you're going to pick up groceries first thing in the morning, always be presentable. Always put a smile on your face 'cause you never know the person that you're gonna meet could be the one working with you or for you or partner with you.

Those are, those are really foundational values. Where'd you pick those up from? Is that you from your family?

Yeah, I think mom and dad. Mom was a, my parents are both from Lebanon. I'm first generation. Dad, was 23, my mom was 18. They moved down to the States. There was a civil war going on over there. So yeah, mom was always, always presentable. She always showed up. She was always at the school functions. She always looked good. She was always smiling with people. My dad was always working. He was making the money for the family and still always showing up. But I always saw the way my mom interacted with people and it was always so compassionate and so kind and so much love. And I think I just grew up and that was always on the side. I never, never got coached or never taught that, but that was always a dynamic. And I always relate that back to the upbringing I had from my mother and father.

So you picked, you picked that, you sort of picked it up by osmosis, by their modeling. I think so. Yeah.

Just time over time over time. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm as a peacemaker, lawyer turned peacemaker, you know, having, being kind, having compassion, listening to people, those are foundational for sure. Absolutely. I find them to be very rare. What's your experience?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think people always start on the wrong foot and there's always a point of escalation. There's always times where you need to escalate, whether it's escalating to someone else or, you know, even in customer service, But people just start on the wrong, on the wrong leg. Always start with kindness. Always start with listen to the tone of your voice. Always encroach very passionately. And 99% of the time you're going to get what you want. But I think just people don't have that dynamic. They're either burned out on life, they don't have patience anymore. They think they're going to be able to drive the ball forward faster with a different dynamic. And I've just— that's never been my approach to life in anything, whether it was university, whether it was general manager at my last company, or even here.

Yeah. And I think there's a misguided belief that if you're a hard charger and you're command and control and drive and push and really don't care about people and just care about the bottom line, that that's gonna be, that's the goal to success. And I just don't think that's true. I haven't met, I've met very few CEOs who've been truly successful in all aspects of their life that were hard chargers. Not hard chargers in the sense that they aren't good people, people. They, they, they're not really good with people.

Yeah. It's, it's just the approach with people. And I think 30, 40 years ago that used to be the approach, but there's just too many options of, of, you know, workplace success, especially in, in America, especially on the West Coast. Right. With that, with technology and now with remote work, if you're not compassionate to your employees, they're gonna go somewhere else and get paid the same, if not more for less work. So the people stay for their managers or stay for their bosses. It's just doesn't work anymore.

That's right. I mean, the great, the great resignation was due to poor management, not—

Absolutely.

And so absolutely so many people don't get that, you know, it's, it's crazy, it's crazy making as I listen. And the solutions are so simple. Yeah, I mean, all you have to do is treat your people nicely.

It's harder said than done. And, you know, especially with the stress of being a CEO or being in a, you know, high-level position, there's so much stress that comes in every single day and, and people falter. I've seen management or I've seen CEOs that go a year, 2 years, and on that 3rd year with it they've made some success or they're going through a hard time, they get their first civil loss or whatever it is and it deteriorates and it never comes back. So sustaining that over ups and downs, the ups are, you'll see very, very high ups, but you'll also see very, very low downs. So just sustaining that pace through ups and downs is what you look for.

I think the secret there is recognizing that as a human being, you're successful and not attaching your success to the ups and downs of what's going on in the business.

Yep.

And I think too many people over-identify their identities. They over-identify themselves with the business. And so when the business is up, they're high, and when business is down, they're down instead of being detached and saying, I am who I am and I'm successful and I'm just being the neutral observer watching stuff go up and down. So I don't get carried with the swing.

Yeah. And there's always the result of that as well on the back end. If you analyze those individuals when they're on their high, their spending habits, they start to spend when they're on their lows, they go into very cost conservative mode. And that's not just with cars and planes or, and you know, whatever it is, it's also with hiring, it's with staffing, it's with dynamics of, you know, what's in the office. So you can usually catch those waves based on, you know, what, what they're doing, what that individual's doing. The one that's very moderate, that always shows up to the office, that always is speaking very kindly with people, you really can't tell the status of the business because they've always been the same.

Right. And I'm curious, when you're looking to hire people, are you looking for people with the same basic values that you have in terms of kindness and compassion?

Yeah, really good question. So very interesting dynamic. I think the average age here is like 27, 28. I'm 31 years old myself. Yeah. And it's not because I've looked for it, but it's because the dynamic, they match the dynamic a little bit better. And we have, of course, our CRO is, you know, 56 years old. He's brought so much experience, but I've always been on the side of I'd rather have someone with a really good energy and really optimistic and showing kindness and compassion and lacks a little bit of experience and we can train them than someone who comes in here with a ton of experience very bad morally. They just, they lost the patience, they lost the dynamic, and they don't want to get in the trenches with the other staff members. So yeah, absolutely, I do look for that kindness, that compassion, that enthusiasm. And I typically find it, it ranges, but I'll typically find it with, you know, like middle experience and middle age. That's, that's, you know, 25 to 40, 45 has been really our, our age gap there. And again, we, we have all different types of characteristics coming in, but yeah, I think that, that kindness and compassion especially with my generation, it's a little bit different, different dynamic, I think.

You know, there are a lot of, a lot of people that, that are, that go get technical training and engineering of all different kinds. They, they tend to go into engineering because they don't like the messiness of human relations. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Have you seen that?

Oh yeah, for sure. Definitely.

Yeah.

Your architects and your engineers are always, you know, are always gonna be more introverted in nature. But even for some of our like Azure architects, like these guys are, they get in the trenches of the cloud environments and so, so complex. We look for people that can interact with customers and that can still talk to the staff. It's a major component. It's, it's if not half of it.

So, so, so I'm, I'm wondering how difficult it is to find people who have engineering expertise or can be trained up and also have the kind of values that you're talking about that I think are so important.

Yeah. And Doug, I, I had a tertiary benefit there, or I guess struggle there, having them in office as well. Because these guys do not want to be in office and I'm a big advocate even going into COVID, 3 weeks in, so everyone's gonna come back to the office. We're not gonna do, you know, work from home. This is just my selection, but that's caused a whole set of, you know, intricacies in itself. But again, we overpay a little bit on our architects. We want them in office. It's just been a huge component. But yeah, it's very, very tough.

I bet.

Luckily Irvine is a nice seed for some talent. But yeah, it'd be very tough in secondary or tertiary markets. Yeah.

And I'm thinking also you're in Orange County, which is not exactly the cheapest place in the world to live.

Not at all.

Yeah, not at all.

That's why we So, so because we got some big payrolls and some, some big names here.

Yeah. So this show is called Listening with Leaders. And, you know, as a lawyer turned peacemaker, I have believed that listening is the foundational skill of life. Tell me about the importance of listening in your company and as you've grown it and developed it.

Yeah, Doug, I think just an experience— my experience has been even in dialogue with the staff or being in meetings, I've always sat as the moderator between whatever group we're setting or whatever meeting, and always just dialoguing, letting people speak, especially if it counters the micromanagement of the staff. But allowing people to flourish in their role means that you need to sit and listen to what they're presenting or what they're bringing to the table, because you can have, you can have 99% of that being fluff and you're gonna catch that 1%. But if you start talking or you start interjecting where you shouldn't, you're gonna miss that 1%. So again, when it, when it comes to meetings, I always act as the moderator, and I always ask questions to the staff instead of actually commenting on, you know, what I should be, you know, where we should be going, or, or whatnot. And I always keep my meetings to 30 minutes. As soon as we sit down, I want, I want presentation. I want to let, let's get going. But again, everyone listen, listen to the content that's being brought. We use data to support, you know, everything we're doing. And again, in regards to just everyone sit down and listen, because from listening we can also, also improve the staff member that's, that's talking. So we can improve their dynamic, we can improve their long-term performance. They feel empowered and entitled to continue to progress. So yeah, I think, I think listening is a key dynamic. Don't talk, just, just listen.

When you, when you're engaged in decision-making process and you got your team around you, how do you, how do you make sure that the introverts have a voice?

Yeah, I think number one, if you have introverts in those big decisions, big meetings, assigning each individual a certain key component of, you know, what we're trying to to drive the ball forward, whether it's expansion into the UK. Here are our KPIs and we really wanna push this agenda forward. We want to have attendance at this level. We want to have meetings booked here. And those introverts, have them speak first. Also have them bring content to the meeting where they feel comfortable. And then again, going back to your point is just listen. Everyone listen, be quiet and listen. The introvert will be forced to talk. They'll get outta that, you know, phase of introvert. And we usually don't see introverts stay introverts when they come into the company for longer than 90 days. They like the culture, they feel empowered, and usually that gets kicked off pretty rapidly.

So that suggests to me that you're doing something really wonderful, which is you're creating emotional and psychological safety in your organization.

Absolutely, yes.

Yeah, you know, we know from the Google studies and other studies and the work of Amy Edmondson that psychological safety is the key number one driver of team success. Yeah, and leaders that can create that are going to do just exactly what you're doing. And if— and to the I mean, I've never heard this before too. If you're— what you're saying is that we bring introverts in, in 90 days they're participating along with everybody else because they feel safe and they feel heard and they feel empowered.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see this even in, you know, starting a new relationship with someone after 90 days or 120 days. If both, both parties feel comfortable with each other, they start coming out. And again, that's the same dynamic we have here. If you're instilling love and confidence and empowerment and trust into that individual, they're just, they're not gonna be an introvert any longer as long as they feel comfortable in that environment. And that also helps with retention. They're not going anywhere else. They don't feel that. They come to the office every day and they feel that and they don't, that's why we don't have turnover. We don't have any issues with retention. Right.

So what would your recommendation be to another CEO who wants to cultivate these qualities that you've been describing that have been— Yeah. Yes.

I think to cultivate all these characteristics externally, you need to cultivate them internally. You need to practice what you preach. You really, really need to practice your, you know, treating people well. And it's so hard when you don't have that dynamic growing up. And but I think, again, practicing everywhere you go, you're showing up to the bank, be compassionate to teller. You go to the grocery store, be compassionate to the cashier. You go to the gym, the front desk, whatever dynamic it is, again, just show compassion and smile because those same people that you talk to could be the same people that are working for your organization. So cultivate it outside of the office and then slowly start bringing it up. You don't want that synthetic nature of passion and compassion in your environment because people can immediately tell that that's not authentic. But practice it outside, practice it with your family, practice it with your partner. And then again, just continue to push it into the organization.

Wow, fascinating.

Yeah, absolutely.

Uh, yeah, I mean, you've done an amazing job. I'm— hats off to you.

Thank you, Doug.

Yeah, you've been so successful. It's incredible. Um, all right, one more question, I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself that we wouldn't know about unless you revealed it to us?

Look, I think, um, the biggest thing— and again, still, I think this is going to be a fight forever, uh, with myself— is is, you know, relating back to a prior question, it's just confidence, having that confidence to go in. And I've always struggled with, you know, confidence. The company was growing and I just, I didn't, I lacked that confidence. I knew I could talk to people. It's just the confidence when it came to doing things outside of my comfort zone. Traveling internationally by myself was, was one of them. Dialoguing, you know, with a new group of individuals, that was something I struggled with 3, 4 years ago, even though I talked to hundreds of customers every single month. So I think there's just so many different dynamics that I really struggled with the interim that I'm still continuing to work on. And I think, you know, forever moving forward, continuing to build your confidence, do things that, you know, bring you outside of your comfort zone, whether it's, you know, I joined a president's organization called YPO and I traveled to New York with a group of individuals, 20 individuals I've never met before. I met Jamie Dimon from, you know, JPMorgan. Just these really, really surreal experiences that I've always been sort of tentative and hesitant to step away from the office to go do. I'm starting to do more. And those are the things that really, really build my confidence. So that's one thing I think, you know, not a lot of people know about me is every day I'm practicing confidence.

Good for you. I think that comes, I'll tell you that it comes with experience.

Yeah.

Don't doubt yourself because you're obviously successful and just say, I'm still learning and growing. 31 years old. I mean, what was I at 31? At 31, I'd been a trial lawyer for 4 years. You know, I mean, it was nothing.

Being an attorney is a long, long journey and it's very trying. Cheers to you, Doug.

I guess it's, you know, age gives you perspective. I'm 72 years old, so that was a long time ago. Yeah. And, and, you know, I can look back and say, yeah, where did all that come— it just came with experience. Yeah, it came with— it came with just year after year after year doing new things, trying new things, taking risks, failing sometimes, succeeding sometimes, and just— and then realizing that I'm just as smart as everybody else, if not smarter than everybody else in the room. And there's no reason for me to be afraid of that. Somebody's going to call me because there's nothing to call me on. I am, I am, I am, I am.

And realizing that just time under tension, and when it comes to other people, the bar is set so low. If you can show up every day, that's 99% of the battle because the bar is so low. People will falter over time.

That's right.

So just continue to show up and smile. And that's, that's been one of my biggest propellers.

Well, and it's obviously succeeded. So my advice, having been down that path many, for many decades, is don't worry about your confidence. You got everything you need. You just keep doing what you're doing. Yeah.

Thank you.

You've got your path to success. No, there is not a person on the planet that can call you out and say you're bullshit because you're not. You're authentic, you're honest, you're successful. You know, you're driven, you know what you're doing.

Yeah, yeah, thank you, Doug. Yeah, I appreciate that.

You're good to go.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just, just keep pushing, have the patience to keep on pushing forward.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for this conversation. It's been—

this was a blast. Thank you.

I, I just really love talking with young entrepreneurs like yourself who have been enormously successful in a very short period of time, and, and your particular path to success, kindness and compassion, really resonates with me. So thank you so much.

Yeah, absolutely. No, thank you for the time. Thank you for your experience, and really, really appreciate, uh, being on here with you.

Absolutely.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media, just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up Your ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.