118 - Belief-Driven Branding: Bridging the Gap to Connect with Your People with BLVR's Adam McWethy

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional, and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Adam McWethy, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the Chief Operating Officer of Believer, which can be found at blvr.com, believer.com, not spelled out, but blvr.com. Welcome to the show. I'm glad to have this conversation with you.

Thanks for having me, Doug. Appreciate it.

Absolutely. Uh, so tell us a little bit about your backstory. I know you're, you like me are a Southern California native, um, down in San Diego County. Tell, tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today.

Yeah, so, uh, I've always been a serial entrepreneur and dating back to junior high really is when I started my first business. I had a candy business in 7th grade and didn't take books home from school. I took candy and made about $200 a day in cash. And that was my first business and I was hooked. And I think I've started probably 7 or 8 businesses over the years. One of the businesses that I had had gone under shortly after 2001. After that tragedy, it was a travel company. And I had learned how to develop websites. My brother, who was also just getting out of a position, his company got acquired and he was looking for something new. He knew how to design. He was a creative director. And long story short, his roommate needed a website. So he said, I'll design it if you develop it. And so we sort of became accidental agency owners. It was not intentional and never thought I'd go into business with my brother. Uh, had a lot of fights early on and had to learn how to work together, especially when we brought people on board, you know, so they wouldn't see us arguing. But yeah, we've been at it for 20 years and I feel like things are going pretty well.

So tell us a little bit more about Belieber and its business.

Yeah, so at its core, we help wellness brands, and wellness is a pretty big category. So it's made up of a lot of subcategories like nutrition and fitness and wellness travel, home products, and so forth. And, you know, we get in there and work with clients to figure out what their core belief is. And then we use that core belief to create a true competitive advantage for those brands that's gonna ultimately drive really meaningful growth for those companies. And we do that through what we call a belief method.

Mm-hmm.

And Sand, so you've been doing this for 20 years. And seen a lot of changes in the internet, what gets you up in the morning? What gets you excited to keep going?

Yeah, well, we have a passion for helping organizations that, you know, stand for more than profit, companies that are purposeful and making a difference in the world. And, you know, I mentioned that I was a serial entrepreneur. It's amazing that I get to, you know, for my day job, work with companies and help them, you know, grow and just add ideas and be a consultant for them. Um, and just, you know, sort of be an entrepreneur over and over and over again with our clients, um, and helping them.

So, and, and the other thing I noticed that is that you're a believer as a B Corp, so that you're doing philanthropic work as well. Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, that's been a passion of ours since we started. Uh, never really got into it for the money. Uh, we weren't into it for profits and We just have a passion to make a difference in the world, a positive difference, not just any difference. And we started working with, you know, back in 2008 at the height of the last, you know, economic downturn. We had a lot of team members sitting idle and not much to do. And we said we could either lay these people off or we could find a worthwhile charity or, you know, ministry and help them out with branding and web and So we chose a foster youth organization and, you know, helped them with their logo and their identity system, their website, their marketing materials. And it just made us all feel good. And ever since then, you know, we've tried to pick nonprofits and charities mainly in the, you know, child space and social impact space that, you know, we can give our time, talent, and treasures and make a difference in the world. And we do work with a lot of for-profit clients and we try to instill that same philosophy, like how could you use your company to help your, you know, employees to help, you know, make a greater impact in the world.

So how do people receive that?

So we've had to do a lot of thought leadership and content develop over the year— content development over the years, you know, the trend with purpose-driven branding and how customers are, you know, seeking out brands to associate and spend their money on. Has really grown over the last, you know, 10, 15 years. And, you know, conscious capitalism, I think, is what a lot of people refer to it as. And so people are really familiar with the purpose-driven side of things. And where we're coming at it from is more of a step back, you know, you need to figure out your belief, you know, what you believe about the world before you can figure out your purpose, you know, what you're gonna do about your, you know, belief. And so that's really part of our belief method. And we develop a lot of, like I said, free content, free resources. It's great now that we've, you know, developed this belief system. We finally, you know, after 20 years in business, you know, have something, you know, unique that differentiates us over other creative agencies. Historically, we've just talked about, you know, an award that we've won or a project that we've, you know, finished and we have a case study and that was just getting lost in the sea of sameness. And so now we're able to communicate around this belief system, belief methodology, and how, you know, your brand can make a positive difference in the world too.

And so the brands that you work with, I mean, you're the people that are attracted to you are people who want to make a positive difference in the world. And so they're attracted to you because you're gonna give them the tools to be able to create the brand that allows them to do just that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, sometimes brands that are just in it for profit, you know, they might be stagnant and they can't figure out how to grow. And so we sort of come alongside them and teach them, you know, here's where, you know, the Gen Zs and the millennials, you know, where they're spending their money nowadays. And you can't just, you know, preach features and benefits. You need to connect with your tribe at a much different level than, you know, companies did 15, 20 years ago. So And we preach that through the belief and then the purpose, vision, values. And then ultimately, you know, where we go with our clients is their behaviors. You know, we see a lot of companies today and a lot of brands that are doing one thing and their customers expect them to be doing something else. And that has huge financial implications for those brands if their behaviors aren't matching up with their beliefs. And we call that a say-do gap, or, you know, where you're you're not walking your talk, so to speak.

I can tell you that I see a lot of that, and it, and it, that all then makes me very skeptical of the motivations of companies that claim to be doing stuff like ESG. And they, they say one thing and they do something completely different. You just got to shake your head and say, you know, same old, same old, you know.

It's happened, it's happening more and more, you know, and customers are seeing through it. And it really does have a, you know, market share drops and You know, Bud Light's probably the most recent example. However you, you know, whatever side of that discussion you fit in on, it has a financial implication for them. They're doing one thing and, you know, their customers feel they should be doing another. So that's the type of stuff we get into with our clients, you know, making sure their behaviors align with their belief and with their positioning and all of that.

So what is it that's unique about you that you bring to the table that has made all of this so successful?

Me personally, or a believer, or both?

You personally.

I keep going back to that entrepreneurial mindset. I've tried to work for people over the years, and it's tough for me to do just because I like to create and be innovative and just build. I'm more on the— not the client service side of the business, more on the finance and operation side of the business. You know, just innovating and creating and, you know, coming up with, with new ways to do things. Um, you know, I feel like I get to be very creative, uh, throughout the day. Uh, another thing that comes to mind is read a book a handful of years ago called Rocket Fuel. Not sure if you're familiar with it, but it talks about the CEO, um, COO relationship and how companies that really take off, you know, hence the, the rocket fuel, um, concept or name is that, you know, when you have a visionary CEO and then you have a COO that can complement them and come in and execute on the vision, I feel like that's what I do really well. I can take— we have a very visionary CEO and he has big lofty ideas all the time, and, you know, taking those ideas and putting them into operational, you know, plans and, you know, very organized, very detailed, and able to delegate down to the rest of the team.

Is your brother still in the business?

He is still in the business. He's a senior, you know, creative at the company. He's, you know, we're right brain, left brain, you know, different in that way. And so he is more on the day-to-day creative side.

So, and you guys get along now? We do.

We don't see each other as much on the weekends because we spend all week together. But yeah, we still get along.

That's, that's good. So what, when you think about the work that you've done, can you think of one project in particular that would, where, that you're exceptionally proud of because it hit all the buttons, beliefs, values, vision, and execution?

Yeah, there's a company, uh, that I always point back to. We worked with them, uh, a number of years ago and we're just starting to work with them again. It's, they were the largest golf bag manufacturer in the world. I'm a golfer and enjoy getting out there and being with friends and so forth. But they contacted us and they were starting a consumer-facing brand and they needed a name and they needed strategy and identity and marketing. And so we got to do the full shebang with them and we named them Vessel. You know, a golf bag is a vessel that carries your club and they believe that each person's a vessel that can go out and, you know, make a difference in the world. And You know, like I said earlier, we try to infuse, you know, the give back, make a positive difference in the world with all of our clients, and we were able to convince them to do a— this was in— buy one, give one was a relatively new concept, but we were able to implement a buy a bag, give a bag program. So every time someone bought a golf bag, they would donate a school backpack to a kid in need, you know, either in the US or over in Uganda. The brand has really taken off. And, you know, still friends and play golf with the owner and just a great guy. So it's whenever, anytime you can mix friendship, you know, business with, you know, friendship, we try to develop those relationships with our clients and just great to see them doing so well and that the, you know, branding and the give back component and the purpose-driven aspect of that brand has really resonated with their customers and they've done so well over the years.

Hmm.

So I'm, I'm curi— this, this show is called Listening with Leaders. Um, tell me, how important has listening been in your career and in your work as COO?

It's been really important. You know, I, I think, uh, of my wife. I married a wonderful lady from New Jersey, and so anytime we, uh, have a conversation, I get to do a lot of listening. Uh, she's just a a talker, and, uh, she's great, I love her, but I think it's taught me a lot. I still not the best listener, there's a lot of practice that goes into it, but it is something I'm conscious about and we're conscious about at Believer. Um, another book I read earlier this year, uh, Trust and Inspire, it talks about the philosophy of managing things and leading people. Uh, and we have really been trying to work on that concept where we don't leave— we don't manage people, we lead them. No one comes to a company to be managed, you know, they want to be led and inspired. And so that's led me to really spend a lot more time. We always did, you know, one-on-ones and, you know, end of the year reviews and check-ins and stuff like that. But I'm very intentional now about preparing for the one-on-ones. And the more time I put into it, the better the outcome. And we center those things around, you know, helping, you know, the the direct reports or, you know, the people I meet with, the challenges that they're having and their personal growth and where they want to go and, you know, what we can do to help them get there. Another thing we did in regards to listening, you know, we were having— we used to have departments at Believer and we were finding a lot of, you know, breakdown in communication and, you know, a lot of back and forth and it wasn't very efficient. And we moved to what's called a pod model last year. Where we have pods of 4 team leads. So we have a creative lead, an account lead, a strategy lead, and a project management lead. And those pods each have a client and their client, they encircle the client and they're really, we're training them and they're getting really good at it is to develop deep relationships with the clients, to understand their business problems, to understand their goals and just really know anything and everything about that client, not just deliver the services, but go above and beyond. To grow, you know, that relationship and that trust. And that, that causes them to really be intentional about listening and hearing what clients are saying. So, and then a third thing in terms of listening would be like, we employ a philosophy called humble, hungry, smart in our hiring practice. And we try to make sure that the people we're bringing onto our team when we're recruiting, you know, sort of, they're not jerks, they're, they're good listeners when we're interviewing them. And, you know, we're listening to them. And so I think, you know, sort of safeguarding who comes onto our team, which is making sure that they're good listeners, and we're all good listeners has been a helpful practice for us.

With your, with this new pod idea that you've developed over the last year, how have you gone about training the members of the pod to be able to listen to each other and listen to the clients?

Well, we got rid of the departments entirely, which was a big challenge and a big change for us. So it sort of broke down those silos. And now these 4 people, you know, we don't change the pods. They're together each and every day. So they know how to really work well with each other and they know each other. They hold each other accountable. And we check in, we have monthly, you know, meetings where the pod's telling us what's working and what's not and what we might need to change, or if they're, you know, the goal is not to overwork them, to have them, you know, utilized but not over or underutilized. So there's a lot of communication and a lot of, you know, listening to them, them listening to us. And, you know, we're about a year into the pod model and it's working really well. So it was a lot of work to get there, but very pleased we did it. And, um, yeah, I think the team's excited about it too.

So I'm just— a couple of things you said. First of all, the idea that we manage things and lead people, I've been, I've been preaching that since the early 2000s. Um, yeah, picked it up and put it in the book, huh?

Yeah. And, um, his name's escaping me. It's The Seven Habits, uh, of Effective Leadership. Yeah, it's his, it's his son.

Okay.

Stephen Covey, I think is his name. And yeah, amazing book. And I think it's a lot of the things we were already doing, but it just sort of put it into a nice, you know, leadership style called trust and inspire.

Right.

Versus, in the contrast, is command and control, which no one likes. No one likes command and control leadership.

Although a lot of people in leadership still believe that, I think that There are a lot of leaders that I run across that they may not say they do command and control, but they really do command and control because it's how they were brought up and they've never been taught any other way to do it. Exactly.

And so we're not the best. I mean, we're getting better and we're trying to like push it down and make sure everyone, you know, all the supervisors are following through with that. A lot of the things we do are aspirational. We might not be perfect at it yet, but we're working towards those things, so.

So when you have these pods, how, how, how do the, how do, who do the pods report to?

The pods report to the executive leadership team.

Okay.

So we have an executive leadership team, we have the pods, and then we have a group of specialists that the pods can pull in to do a lot of the hands-on work.

This would be designers and coders and people like that?

Strategists, copywriters. Yep, exactly.

How many people do you have?

We have right now 24, 23, um, and we might be adding a third. We have two pods right now. We might be adding a third pod later this year is the goal.

Wow.

So it's a nice tight small organization. How are you handling, uh, remote work?

Uh, at first I was really reluctant, you know, uh, always loved being in the office and You know, no one was coming in during COVID and we gave up our lease and moved remote. We've gotten used to it. You know, the goal is to still get back to a permanent office, hopefully later this year, early next year. We're just sort of seeing how the commercial real estate market works out and let the dust settle on that a little bit.

Yeah. You have people that are all over the place, or most of your people located in San Diego County?

The majority are located in San Diego County. During COVID we got a little— and during the hiring, you know, craze and tough, tough hiring, we hired people all over the country. But lately it's been mainly San Diego with a few people maybe, you know, in Idaho or, you know, up in Oregon. But yeah, we like— we still do get together and we do have a shared office space down here where we, from time to time, some people work out of there and we have meetings there. So it is nice to see each other face to face from time to time. Not ideal, but being flexible and adaptive.

Yeah. You're in Solana Beach, right?

Yes. Yep. Nice area.

For people who don't know where that is, it's north of the city of San Diego in San Diego County, one of the nicest beaches in the world.

It is. We are very, very blessed. Yes.

Well, good. One more question and I'll let you go. What are What's one thing about yourself, Adam, that we wouldn't know about unless you told us, revealed it to us?

One thing, um, first thing that comes to mind, I mentioned I started a lot of businesses, and when I tell people this, they have a hard time believing it, but we traveled to— a buddy of mine traveled— a buddy of mine and I traveled to Europe shortly after college, and we had no idea what we were doing, and, uh, I took a duffel bag and a bunch of other stuff that I didn't need. And so we had the idea to start a student travel company. And one way we chose to market that is through a reality TV show. And so we took 12 college students over to Europe for the summer and filmed them traveling around Europe. And Travel Channel said they were going to buy it from us and it didn't work out that way. But yeah, filmed a reality TV show that never made it to air.

So good for you. Well, it's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for your time today.

Really enjoyed it. Thank you, Doug.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.

DougNoll.com/podcast.

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