119 - Leveraging the Power of Active Listening for a Robust Company with Skyline Robotics' Michael Brown

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Michael Brown, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the CEO of one of the most remarkable companies I've come across, and that is called Skyline Robotics. Which can be found at SkylineRobotics.com. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Doug.

I mean, we got started talking before we started recording because I was just so curious about what you're doing, and I got to say, your energy and excitement about what you're doing is incredible. Let's start with your backstory, which is fascinating. Office products to Skyline Robotics. Tell us the story.

Yeah, sure. So, um, thanks for having me, you know, once again. My father was in the office supply business. Um, he bought a company in 1972, did an acquisition roll-up, uh, then sold to a larger company. And as I got older, I grew up around business. You know, I had pinks and whites of invoices being separated in my house. So I was built around business. So we would— if I was on vacation from school, I went to the office. I would go into the warehouse. My father would tell me, hey, you've got to set an example, so make sure that you're not sleeping on the floor and kicking boxes around. But okay, no problem. But so I wound up going into the business with my father in 1994 to put his business into the coffee business. So I was doing like a line extension where we already had— he already had the customers and he was selling them off supplies. He was making delivery anyway. So it was, what are the other services that we can add on that can— we can become this one solution? Because they were already doing furniture and they were delivering proprietary products all in one box. So law firms loved it. Hospitals love this type of service where they could go one throat to choke and order. So I was one of the first dealers in the United States to launch a company called Keurig, uh, the K-Cups. So for the office market, so by the time we launched, we controlled like the market. I would say about 20% of the whole entire market for the K-Cups in the office business. So yeah, so I went through a bunch of office supply companies, roll-ups, built one company. We got it up to about $400 million in revenue, sold that to Office Depot in 2006, came back with a platform company called Rent-A-Crate, which was for office moves, then went into the shredding business, also related to the office. And we were just leveraging those relationships. Um, sold that company in 2018 to Staples. Uh, company was called HiTouch Business Services, and they actually kept the name HiTouch, um, because they felt that's the type of service that they want. So they still trade under that name, which is great. Um, and then I signed the non-compete for 7 years, stayed with the company for 1. And I had to find something new. So I really loved process and disrupting service industries, and I was looking at robotics and I was looking at assisted living, because in Japan, assisted living robotics is a big market. And I was driving down the highway, dropped off my son at hockey, and I looked up at Hudson Yards and I said, I cannot believe they are still cleaning windows by hand. So from that day on, I went and did a global search for technology that I thought could possibly perform what I— what was needed on skyscrapers in New York. Um, I found— I finally wound up making a determination that Skyline Robotics, that was in Israel, would be the right company. So I went after the company, calling them like, hey, I want to get involved. They just got out of the business. And I said, you know, where are you? I didn't, you know, understand robotics and LiDAR and technology. I'm a business guy. So I said, you know, where are you? Like, oh, it does this, it does that. And my brother-in-law, um, who's a lawyer and has been at startups I said, I want you to take a look at this with me. Just, you know, let's see what this is. So I wound up bringing them to New York after I visited them in Israel, and we were able to convince them that their model number one, they wanted to be a first market where they would go directly to the end user, go to the building and say, hi, we have a robot, we want to come clean your building. And we explained that's really not what will work in an ecosystem that's been around for 150 years servicing skyscrapers. That's— you're just not walking in and doing that. So we were able to convince the board that our vision and our capital could change the trajectory of the company because they'd started in 2017. They really only had a prototype. So we joined in December of '20. Since December of '20, we have been off to the races.

And so describe for us exactly what Skyline Robotics does.

So today, when building— when skyscrapers are cleaned, they utilize a cradle and a crane from the top of the building. So it's— they're called building maintenance units. So you would see them, you know, coming down the building when they have to fix a window, but mostly people see them when they're cleaning windows. So the concept that they had was to go and hitch a ride and utilize the BMU and control the BMU on the descent and then be able to use, um, LiDAR cameras to be able to detect the building surface and then paint between the lines, from a layman's term, of where the windows are. Um, and, you know, so that's the way it, it's working now. There are— it sounds so simple, but it is so complicated in so many areas that I've gotten such a lesson in, in life. Um, What— when it looks easy, it's really not that easy. Um, you know, our— everything we use is off the shelf. We're totally agnostic to the hardware. Our secret sauce is what the code that we're building behind it, all the artificial intelligence, machine learning, the algorithms, and putting that all together so that you can work in a multivariable environment outside, which is very unusual in the robotics field. So in the robotics field, normally you would have a robot that's usually in a contained area where there's manufacturing, and the arm is sitting there, and it gets— it just has one task to do. In our situation, we're hundreds of feet in the air. You have wind gusts coming, you have different temperatures, you have just so many variables that we have to be— we're reiterating 250 times a second to make sure that we're keeping the baskets stabilized if there is any type of wind movement. Even though we're, we can— we're plugged into the building in mullions, what they call mullions, in Israel, where the company, where the R&D resides and where it was founded, It's kind of— they don't have those regulations that we have in New York, so they don't have any state— they don't have any anchoring systems. So when they developed it, the first thing they worked on was the stabilization because they thought that was the most important thing, because how could you allow for a, a BMU to go slamming into the building if something were to happen, because there's no human to stop it. So That was the biggest challenge that they came up with, and that's when they came up with the idea of using a robotic arm, because a 6-axis robotic arm is the same as a, a human arm. So anywhere that robotic arm could get to, um, anywhere a human hand can get to, a robotic arm should be able to get to as well. So they iterated on that, and what's interesting is that the motion of cleaning a window has been perfected already. Like, we know it works this way. They used to use hairbrushes, old hairbrushes, uh, before. And the reason why they went to squeegees was because the people that were working were complaining about their hand was getting tired, it's too heavy, and everything else. So that's why they went to these plastic, very light squeegees. Um, it wasn't a technological advance. It wasn't like it made it clean it better. Um, so we use those large brushes. No, we're not using horsehair, but We're iterating on that large brush idea. And we're changing that brush though on a regular basis as we come across different buildings and different, you know, window frames.

So what you're able to do is have a robot descend down the side of a building, clean the windows, inspect the facade, the masonry, and everything else. Spot problems. And by the time it gets to the bottom, you have a database on that side of the building that can tell you where the flaws are, where the leaks are, where the, where the paint's peeling, and present this to the building owner and say, here's what you got.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and I would say phase one that we have done is deploy robotic arms that clean buildings. We've done demos for that. Every demo we have done has led to either a direct investment from the strategic, uh, real estate company, or now Silverstein CEO, um, is now on an advisor. We really— that's one thing about this business is that we didn't know much about real estate. We didn't know much about, per se, robotics. So I had to surround myself and build myself an advisory board that's very deep. So I have real estate developers, I have, um, construction companies, I have, um, phone and communications companies involved because new construction, you want the whole entire facade to be wired so that you can pull data in and understand what is going on with it. So when, when new construction happens and I, and I'm being asked, hey, listen, can you make our building, you know, future-proof? We're literally at the forefront, or what I call the top of the funnel in the process, where we're now going to be able to come in and say, well, listen, we have to have at least this as a backbone for communications and networking and so forth. So it's really uncovered as we've gone into this business. We've really uncovered a lot of other sub-businesses. And to the point of what you said about the inspection services, we believe that we have a tremendous advantage because we're on the side of the building to be able to give readings. You know, optical— right now, optical cameras can tell you if you've got a broken window or if you've got, you know, some crack in the aluminum. But what we're looking at is more geothermal. So on floor 37, is there more heat escaping on the west facade rather than on the 36th floor? When I'm gonna nano-coat my building, do I really need to nano-coat the whole building, or is it just this area? Because I have the data that shows that this area is getting much more environmental abuse than the other areas. A lot of what's happened, unfortunately, in the real estate for maintenance, especially for the facades, everything is best practice. It's best practice to, you know, to nano-coat every year. It's best practice to do this on no data whatsoever.

Wow.

So, so for us, being able to now grab this data and give this to the building owners, that's real, real power. And there's drone technology out there, but they're— they're really not going to work in cities very well. I mean, New York, you know, even though they just said that you can go with some joint drones in New York, the process to be able to be allowed to do it is going to take them years to get that done. So I really feel like we're in a great position as it relates to where the technology is today and where it's going.

So Michael, you obviously have a lot of enthusiasm about this. What gets you excited in the morning, get you up and get you going?

So my mornings all start very early. I've always been an early riser. My father taught me that to be effective leader, you have to make sure, sure you take care of all your problems before you can see everyone and take care of all their problems. Um, so I used to go to work 4 o'clock in the morning, and either— and most people would start getting in at 6:30, so I was really trying to get ahead of the curve and be ready for, you know, in distribution, if we had 30,000 orders and we ran 99.8%, I still had 0.2% on 30,000 orders that were going to be a problem that day. So it's, you know, it's always honing in on that. Much different type of business, uh, that I'm in today. Um, one, as the company is located really in Tel Aviv, But in Israel, I try to be up around 4:00 to 5:00 in the morning, um, and I try to get caught up from whatever was sent to me in the last couple hours from Israel when they came in. And then we do most of our GCC, uh, calls are in, I would say, the early morning hours. And then I would say the afternoon is more focused on the United States. And then, you know, Europe's in between. Then when you get Asia involved, that gets a little crazy. So I'm really wherever the opportunity is, I'm there.

So I'm curious about what gets you really excited about this business.

Oh, it's the biggest no-brainer business in the world. I've never seen as much demand in my life for anything. We literally get on a, on a basic contact form on our website. I don't advertise nothing. We're getting the Fortune 500 companies sending me notes, you know, all the big banks, all the big, uh, life tech. All these companies had been looking for technology for innovation, but then just because who wants to have humans on the side of a building that are risking their life when there's, you know, so much new technology out there? So I get on average, we're getting on average 2 contact forms a day looking for, can you come to our market? When can you come to your market? How much does it cost? This is so cool. I have an idea. So, and I answer every one of them myself. So, and I'm answering it probably within 24, 48 hours max. And I'm starting every conversation to get it to the next level. So it's a great way to see what's going on all around the world. And to your point, what gets me up in the morning? I can't wait to find out what's going to be in my inbox because I've got the coolest projects coming my way, all from all over the world.

Wow.

And it's just, it's just cool. I mean, like I said, I used to be in office supplies. I worked out in New York, and yeah, we were in all over the United States. You know, I was just in Saudi Arabia, okay, for 4 days. It was the most incredible experience. I was in London. I was— I mean, so Israel. So it's been from a global standpoint, it's been beyond exciting. And I've loved really getting to know a lot of the cultures better. Um, and that was one of the great things, uh, about Saudi Arabia was I was there, and for whatever they did in the past, they did in the past. What they're trying to do today If people focus on that, they're really trying very hard to give people rights, to, to make it a friendly environment for business and for people coming to invest. And the most incredible thing is that 50% of the population is under the age of 25, and, you know, so they are really looking for technology and I was shocked on just, just the optimism of the population there.

What, what is it you think that's unique about you that you bring to this business?

So the difference that I bring to the robotics business is business sense. Most of the people are engineers. They haven't scaled any businesses. They haven't, you know, gone out and tried to understand— not bring a solution to the market, bring a solution to the market that the market wants. So when we bought, we took over, before we went and decided how we were gonna make changes to some of the stuff on the robot, we— when we met with all the buildings that we could, all the building managers that we could, all the building maintenance companies that we could, because this is a— first of all, it's a union labor job. So we work with the union. So we want— I mean, we weren't going to enter the market unless we knew that we could come into the ecosystem without friction. And that's what happened. We're working with the union, and it's now a collaborative robotic as a service that's being provided. They're getting upskilled, earning more money, and being taken out of harm's way. And it's a win-win-win.

I can see how the unions would really appreciate that.

Yeah, no, they do, they do, they do. And, uh, yeah, no, it's, it's just, it's a every— like I said, every day it's something new. And, and I've never built— while I've built out new divisions of companies, I've never built out an ecosystem that doesn't exist. It just doesn't exist. We're the— I think we're one of the first robotic as a service, as a collaborative service with humans rather than— we're not looking to take jobs away. We're looking to say, hey, there aren't enough. 74% of window cleaners in, in the United States are over the age of 40. So you have no new workers coming in really, and you have more windows and glass being put up every year. So, you know, in New York it's an issue, right? In the Gulf country, in the, in the GCC, they have, uh, very inexpensive labor. So for them, we only can focus on new construction because everything is— well, that's so much more expensive. 'Cause in New York and in London, it's not— it's really not a difference in price at all. And we could show savings if we wanted to. I lost your volume.

Sorry. This podcast is called Listening with Leaders. How important has listening been to you as a leader in your earlier career in office supplies and now working in robotics?

So I take listening— one, I am friends— friendly with the person, whether they are cleaning something or they're the highest of the executives. So one, I always want to get different perspectives. So that's one, um, and that's from what I call the internal customer, right? So you have everyone that works there And you want to get a pulse, and you want to be able to touch people, and you want to be able to empower people. Because when you empower people, things— and they can make that decision— listening becomes fairly easy, or easier, right? Because they're not sitting there like, oh, I don't want to do what they want to do. It's, hey, listen, you're in the— you're in the job. You're not gonna kill anyone by misdelivering the paperclips, I promise. So whatever you decide to do, you're fine. And that type of, by empowering, when I had something to say, A, they listened, and B, I listened to them about what they thought about the business, what they thought about things I could do differently. And I think that's critical. I mean, I don't think you can sit in an ivory tower and just try to get a pulse. You have to be listening to the market. You have to be listening to your people. You have to be listening to advisors. You have to be listening to your customers.

I would imagine when you were in the Office Supply Business and you have this huge organization with probably thousands of people, that, that there was always some chaos or messiness going on somewhere.

Yeah, well, so we had a— at our height, um, at Allied, we had about 1,000 people, um, and you had all the different services, distribution, and you had collections. Every day was a fire drill. Every day. Every day. So we had 350 salespeople I had to build an intranet, and this is in like you're talking about the early 2000s, to take in requests for all their questions for purchasing and whatnot. And we were in so many different businesses and offering so many different services, we had to really get what I call the one throat to choke, where someone comes in one place and I'm able to then distribute it and get everything done, um, and track it and make it measurable, uh, and so forth. So Yeah, I, I would say that a service organization, if you don't have— if, if your leader doesn't have a sense of urgency and doesn't have respect, and, and they're never going to be running a great service industry, you know, they just won't.

I would imagine that, uh, uh, Skyline Robotics is a lot smaller company personnel-wise.

Um, yeah, Skyline, when I started, we had 8 people. 2 of those were the founders. Today we have 31 people and there are 2 of us are in New York and the balance is in Israel in our R&D lab. So we've got, you know, algorithm engineers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, and we've got just really a great team. We were voted top 50 robotics companies this year. Wow. Um, by Robotic Review. So it's, it's a— and I, I explain it to my wife all the time because she's like, oh, you seem so overly excited. Is it gonna happen? It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I'm like, honey, I can't— like, this is a process. It's a step by step by step. Every milestone I'm going to celebrate because I don't know if there's going to be another milestone coming. And each one of these things has been an effort Um, so yeah, it's just— but it's, it's fun.

Good for you. One more question, I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself, Michael, that we would not know about unless you revealed it to us?

I have a 19-year-old son and I have a 16-month-old daughter and a 14— and a, and a 14— a 15-year-old stepson and a 16-year-old daughter. So I had teenagers that were, you know, off to the races, starting college, high school, and everything. And my wife and I decided to have another child, and, uh, it's been unbelievable because I feel like I'm not a grandfather, but I feel like I can enjoy what I didn't get to enjoy at a much younger age because I hadn't had success yet and I had to be running around couldn't control my own, you know, schedule.

Good for you. Well, this has been an incredible interview, Michael. Thank you so much for your time today.

Thank you.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.

DougNoll.com/podcast.

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