130 - From Waste Metal Extraction to Shapewear: The Extraordinary Journey with Skanties' Susie Taaffe

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Suzy Taff, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the founder and CEO of Scantis, spelled S-K-A-N-T-I-E-S, which can be found at Giantes.co. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Doug. So happy to be here.

So you've got a master's in finance and a Bachelor of Science in chemical engineering, and you are the founder of a women's clothing line. There is a story. And you, and you were, and you were born in Ireland, live in Australia, thinking about moving to California, and you got 3 kids. There is a story here.

Oh yeah, there is.

Tell us a little bit about your backstory.

So I did chemical engineering at university and then found myself in the salubrious industry of waste metal extraction through electrolytic recovery process in patented technology. Exactly.

You just lost me.

Basically getting the metals out of solution that we wanna like gold or copper or things like that, say like a mint where they're minting coins and stripping them and then we get the waste solutions that could be either valuable or toxic, either or. Anyway, I found I did not love that and I was actually doing a lot of work on their BD side. So business development, I was more interested in the business, like where's the application? Where can we apply this technology? So actually doing the research for all the potential companies that could use that technology anyway. So that landed me into the Masters of Finance because that was sort of going to be my pivot. It was, I was going to brush up on the finance side and then maybe work from an engineering perspective, but in the finance land. And then a part you probably didn't know is I then, that actually launched me and my sister into designing and manufacturing maternity clothing at the age of like 22 or 23. And we, because in Australia at the time we saw a massive gap in the market, which there was. And so we jumped on that and we were in China back before smartphones were invented. So China pre-smartphones was a really interesting landscape. They didn't have computers. They did. They had mobile phones that you could call on, but they just didn't have any of the technology that has brought, made it so accessible to the world that it is today. So a lot of it was like foot traffic. We would physically turn up to places, sit on factory floors. We would trudge through the fabric markets, like having an agent and things like that wasn't a thing. I think it was like DSL internet. We were like, we found a uni student to be our translator because the Chinese didn't speak English. So That was like in the, in the school, school of hard knocks and world learning. That was by far the most interesting experience in education I've ever had. And then the GFC hit and our accounts receivable just turning into bad debts and we decided to close that down. And then me and actually my sister both worked in the same industry after that in gas compressor station construction. So I know that's so out there. But it's actually quite similar because you are designing something, then you get it prefabricated, you quality control, paint it, et cetera. Then we've gotta put it on modular shipments out to site so they can field fit it out there. So it's still logistics, design, schedule, budgeting, all of the same in difficult conditions, I suppose, as China was difficult conditions and working remote sites was also super difficult because there wasn't a courier you could just put something on. We had to, I was in charge of we call them B-doubles over here, and the big semi-truck, like, um, road trains. I was in charge of, like, um, coordinating what could go on where. Like, we're talking heavy pipes, but also they've got weight limits. So actually manually mapping the back of the trucks to go out to site. And then, and we had little light aircraft that would fly from the middle of Queensland out to the remote site, and we could only have certain weights. Again, really important. So mapping what weights and how to get what supply was crucial in the construction schedule because we have a lot of men out there that were earning a lot of money that if they're on downtime, it costs a fortune. So it was a hypercritical role, which I suppose is the same in any business, especially your own business, is that you have to wear so many different hats. Anyway, long story short, we'll just throw in a divorce and 3 kids there and suddenly 3 kids and then the divorce. Yes, 3 kids and then the divorce and then suddenly I sort of had that, um, that, like, that, you know, you go through the, the, what is this life about? What am I here for? What is the purpose of all of this? And the divorce obviously triggered those ponderings. And so I realized actually you're here to actually be of service and to actually bring yourself joy. Like, engineering is a great job, and I find it challenging, and it's, and it's rewarding in that sense, but it doesn't feel one bit of my creativity or one bit of my passion for helping others, um, and being of service. So I was at those crossroads and I was thinking, what can I do that will actually bring me passion and fulfillment and purpose? And so I decided to start Scanties, which was Missy Massey in Australia, and I've rebranded for the US because Scanties is so much more fun.

That's so fast with your accent. Nobody caught it.

It was, sorry, it was Missy Massey in Australia. But I've rebranded to Scanties for the US because it's just so much more fun. So, and I think when I started Missy Massey, I didn't, I didn't put that much effort into the name. I kind of, I didn't really, I actually didn't expect it to grow as large as it did, even though I had grand— when, you know, when you're thinking at the time, and I think that's a big concept of branding, which is not my forte, and some people are so fantastic at it. But Missy Massey wasn't a brand that you could really grow the name. So just the, if I go on the backstory of the naming part, whereas Scanties, I, I can, it's a living, breathing feeling colorful thing that I can see as a persona, etc. Right. So I just, and the reason I decided to do this company was I had made the product for myself when I was doing the maternity right at the back end of that. I created this undergarment for myself that I needed that didn't exist. Same old entrepreneurial, like I wanted something that did 3 functions and there was nothing. In actual fact, I would have taken nude bike pants in a cotton fabric that did 2 functions, but it didn't exist. So I just knocked up a pair for myself when I was still in the tail end of the manufacturing business, etc. So I was super lucky that I had that experience in manufacturing that I could like create a product that didn't exist, I suppose, because not everyone— you might have an idea, but people don't really know how can I start? Like, I know what I want, but it's really hard to enact it. So, and then I tested them. I'd worn them for 8 years before I even realized they had commercial viability. So 8 years through 3 pregnancies, that's a whole changing body shape. And, and yes, so then I realized it had commercial viability.

So tell, tell us a little bit about the product.

So the product is like a mashup of super thin nylon, um, yoga pant waistband and then cotton underwear. So it's like a— it's— I call them anti-shapewear because it's the best way to describe them. Shapewear being something that gives you a smooth line, but it constricts you and suffocates you and squashes you into that straight line. Whereas instead of that, I call them the anti-shapewear because they give you a smooth line. And with— by, by using actually engineering principles of like structurally engineered the waistband to displace the pressure point over 6 centimeters. So instead of there being sharp pressure. It's, it's graduated over 6 centimeters, so it means you get a smooth line whilst it's being comfortable. So just like a second skin. Um, and then the leg length was to prevent chafing, which in hot climates where I'm from is— can be a really big problem for women. And it's also a really shameful problem for women too. So, uh, it hasn't really been— it doesn't really get talked about in female circles. And because we wear— I think men do get it too, but they have pants and shorts that they can wear. So they— it circumnavigates the problem. Whereas when you're wearing skirts and dresses and it's a hot day or it's a humid day, or just could be your particular body shape, you get friction and it is really painful. And then we get the shame cycle that starts looping. So part of my creation of the product was actually just as a tool to stop the shame cycle. I want to stop that negative loop of chatter. So that is what my actual mission is, is to stop the negative chatter and loop of, um, people's— like, it's our conditioning. We've been programmed to think poorly about our bodies, and our bodies cop the flak for a lot of our internal insecurities. It's, it's, it's like it's this physical 3D thing that we can sort of blame and crack the whip on for all our other faults, I suppose, that we blame the body for. I find it quite fascinating how we do, do relate ourselves so much to how we look. And so my messaging for Scanties is actually primarily about the valuing yourself and trusting yourself and loving yourself and teaching body positivity and body confidence. And the actual product is just a tool to switch off that chatter so that they can then work on doing all the other inner healing that they need.

So you developed a product that's, that's all based on personal self-development and doing inner work, basically.

Yeah, is the tool.

Um, huh. So today you're still living in Australia. What is it that gets you excited? To get up in the morning?

Well, usually the sunshine. I love the sunshine and I suppose I've had a pretty rough ride when we split up. I had the 3 young kids and then my ex-husband went bankrupt. So I started this business from scratch with nothing and 3 kids to look after and they were 5, 3 and 1. So it has been a really, I worked on the side. I did, this didn't just go like that. I had a job in finance for quite a few years until the end of 2020 to get this off the ground. Down. But there has been a lot of low points. So I have found I really need to find the little things and actually find the gratitude for what— like, my house might be messy, but thank you, I have a house. Like, I'm taking the bins out again as a single mom for the 8 millionth time, but oh my God, the sun's shining. Look, can you smell that jasmine or the scent of that tree there? And I'm lucky that I've got a house to take bins out in. So I've had to pull it back down to really grassroots levels to actually get, keep going, keep momentum, I suppose. So being of service is the number one thing that drives me and drives the business. And when I get the customer feedback, especially, I've touched people in areas I would never even have thought possible, such as the ostomy community. So people with ostomy bags, it's written up on blogs there how the product helps them wear more form-fitting clothes so they can feel better about themselves. Women who are going through IVF for any surgeries, hysterectomies, miscarriages, all of those things that causes a lot of bloating around that area. It helps them. It emotionally supports them as well. And then people going through gender affirmation surgery or HRT. I've had emails from people like that, like, you do help my daughter transition so much easier because of your product. So that is what drives me. It's that the people you are touching from just a pair of, like, an undergarment, but It is touching people in a way that is just so special and amazing. And I'm truly honored to be able to provide that for people. And that is what really drives me forward.

You have found the secret to a successful and happy life, service to others. And that's what drives me too, as a peacemaker. I was a trial lawyer for 22 years, but I really never learned happiness until I left the practice of law to be able to serve people as a peacemaker and a teacher and a trainer and a visionary. It makes it, it's huge. I mean, that's the secret right there. And you found it.

I know. I actually recently saw a short clip, um, by a man in Sydney here, and he was like, you know, when you feel bad about yourself, like you had a bad day, something's gone wrong, everything's terrible, and you turn to maybe retail therapy. I'm gonna buy something to make myself feel better. Or maybe it might be an ice cream or whatever. He said the Japanese have a way of, right, a way of being or what they do in that situation. He was taught by a Japanese person that instead of doing something for yourself, why don't you do something kind for someone else? And he said every time that will work because it will make you feel good and you've done something kind for someone else. And I just think that that's such a motto to live by. I think it was so smart and so wise.

Absolutely. So what is it, do you think? I mean, I can, I've already heard a whole bunch of things that make you unique, but I'm really wondering about what do you think is unique that you bring to the table that's made you and your company so successful?

I think probably, well, I am a crazy big eyes, big ideas person and I'm a yes person too. I'm like, shall we do that? Yes, let's go. Shall we do that? Yes, let's go. Shall we do that? Are we jumping on a plane? Yes, let's go. Are we like, I am just sure, let's go. I mean, I think being a yes person, and I think I make decisions really fast. And then I, I think it's sort of cutting out. It's not the fear, it's the trust in yourself that you can manage whatever comes out of it, if that makes sense. So it's, it's trusting that, okay, it might go either, it could go really well, it could go really badly, but we just figure it out along the way. And I think probably my background in China helped me with that a lot because there were times over there when I had no idea how we even made it through. Like, we bought this furniture at the Canton Fair, which is the biggest fair in the world, and we had— you can't take your translator in there, so we had no translator. And we're in this Canton Fair, and we had— and we thought, oh, it might fit in a taxi. It's just like cabinets and big things. And we pulled—

we got—

anyway, first we had to find someone to get it out of there. You need all these signed documents. We had no signed documents, so we found someone else's thing to jump on the back of and they kind of sort of smuggled us through. So to show you weren't stealing the stuff, even though we had paid for it. But, and then I got out there, I was like, we're sort of standing on the side of the road with all the furniture next to us. Me and my sister were going, it's not gonna fit in a taxi. And then I was like, okay, you stay here. And this is like early 2000s. There's no smartphones, there's no Google. Anyway, so I ran over, I'd seen all these men in like with big trucks. And so then through charades and mimes, and I knew I could say our address in Chinese where we lived, we had an apartment there. I managed to get one of these guys with a truck to come over and load the thing. And then I'm riding in the back of the truck and Cass is riding in the front of the truck and just things like that. Like you have, like, how do you get through that? If we can get through that, I think you can get through anything.

Crazy.

So crazy.

I would also say you said something earlier that was really interesting and that is that all of your experience working, uh, for a company in logistics and construction and manufacturing gave you a base set of skills that, that designing and figuring out the logistics and manufacturing process for Scantis was just another project, and you knew exactly what to do and how to do it. And with your engineering background, designing it was pretty straightforward. I think that's pretty, I don't think there are many people that have those skills.

And that's just accidental the way it's all mashed up together.

Right.

So how do you manage distribution today? You've got manufacturing distribution.

You're, you know, logistics in Texas, third-party logistics in Texas.

Okay.

Yeah. So, yeah, we needed to have a base in the US. Our Australian shipping is just not fast enough. So we have, yeah, we have the 3PL in just outside of Dallas because we chose Texas as the center of the US. Everyone recommends to choose Texas and I went to Texas in March and learned to drive on the US side on the Texan highways, which was interesting. Talk about figuring it out.

You guys are lefties down there, aren't you?

Yeah, we are.

We're righties up here.

Definitely.

So this show is called Listening with Leaders. And I don't know if you know anything about my background, but I work with people, work with leaders, teaching them how to do deep listening for a lot of different reasons. I'm curious about how important listening has been in your career trajectory.

Oh, extremely important. Definitely. Well, I've listened in different ways, in different, in different situations, I suppose. In the maternity company, I had to, I was new, I'd never done that before. So I was listening in a, I have no idea what I'm doing here. Actually, it's same with the engineering. At the engineering, it got very, I'd gone from maternity manufacturing and gone into gas construction, which is fine, but there's a lot of highly regulated, the specifications, the quality control is really, really big. So you have to have extremely technical listening skills for that. So you have to, you can't miss anything. It's probably a bit like your law degree, you're working in law, you can't miss a single thing. So you have to get very honed in on listening for the specifics. Whereas in Scantees, the listening is completely different. And it actually came about by having a disastrous load of stock arrive and be dispatched. And so I had like 1,000 faulty items out there. And this is what sort of shaped the listening is that people want to be heard. So, and it shaped it in that catastrophic event. It shaped what people actually want from you. As long as people will forgive you for anything, as long as you say, I am— you listen to them, I'm so sorry, that was my fault, how can I help you to have a happy outcome, whatever that is. And I contacted everyone with that bad shipment, um, who had an issue and gave them that solution, and they turned into my advocates instead of being grumpy customers because everyone will give you a chance if you just front foot it. And so that has shaped the Scantis culture now in that no matter how someone emails us or contacts us or has any correspondence, often they'll come in super angry, as you say, how to defuse an angry person. They just, and it's probably, it's 99% probably from something completely irrelevant to us, but So, or, but what they, the second you actually say, of course, I hear you, I'm so sorry about that, how can we fix it to make you happy, whatever you need? And, and all of a sudden they feel heard and they feel valued. And so it's shaped our, um, listening in the Scantis world is not so specific like the engineering, etc., but from an empathy perspective. And so now every point of contact we have is shower them with love because that's what they just, that's actually what they need. Listen to their concerns and appreciate them and then work together to move forward. And that has changed the game, I think.

You have identified what I call Type 1 and Type 2 listening. Type 1 listening is the first kind of listening you were describing where it's the listener's agenda. When I'm listening as a Type 1 listener, I'm trying to gather data, gather information. And to your point, in high, high-stakes professions like law or chemical engineering or manufacturing, you, you can't miss anything because otherwise it can be catastrophic. That's one kind of listening, and it's important, and that's the kind of listening that most people do. But the other, what you, what you've discovered in Scandis is what I call Type 2 listening. And the Type 2 listening that focuses on the speaker, not on the listener. And the object of Type 2 listening is to make the speaker feel heard at a very deep level. Does that resonate?

100%. 100%. And sort of when you have your aha, it's like, we just need that. Oh, okay. Well, we can just do that over and over and over and over again. And that's like our number one motto is make everyone feel, and it doesn't need, they don't even have to be a customer either. Like anyone we touch with that might see an ad or a social media post or a LinkedIn post. With the idea behind making them feel better and valued.

If you can validate somebody's feelings, they will immediately calm down, and the pro— the solution will almost always appear immediately. And I've walked into some of the most difficult conflicts in the world, and, and de-escalate, then problem solve. And that's what I teach all my graduate students too. So that's why in my graduate classes I spend the part of the graduate class, teaching them how to listen to emotions, which is really the secret here. So it sounds like you stumbled on the secret of the universe. You discovered two secrets of the universe: life— meaning in life is service to others, and listening to validate others is the foundational skill of human relationships, right?

Yes, I, I just— for— yeah. I've just discovered them by accident, not knowing what they are, I suppose.

But you've done well. I think you're the first person I've— you're— I don't know what— I think I'm on episode 140 or something. You're the first one I've interviewed that stumbled on the two great secrets of the universe.

I have had some hard lessons to get there, I think.

Oh, I'm not saying the lessons are easy.

No, uh-uh.

Not easy for me either. I think you got to go through a lot of hard knocks to kind of finally realize what's really important. Yeah. So how are you passing this all on to your kids? You got 3 kids, they're a teenager and 2 preteens. How are you teaching them everything that you've learned?

Well, it's really interesting. Well, they hear, they're around me a lot, so they hear it and I preach a lot to them. And, and sort of do as I do, not as I say, that sort of like, um, and so we enact it. And they're going through lots of troubles with school and things like that. And so diving into like tweens, and like, I can tell you, 11-year-old girls are a nightmare. So we have to dig a lot into this. Well, what do you think's making her feel like that? Why do you— where do you think that could be coming from? Sometimes we can't actually figure it out, and all we have to do is just bring it back to ourselves. And, and know that we— I talk to them a lot about projection as well, which is probably where the angry customer is coming from. They're projecting other stuff onto you which does nothing to do with you. So same with 11-year-old girls, it's all— and it— and life, it's just people project whatever's going on their world onto you. So all you can do is just, um, is just diffuse it, be your good kind self, always project what you can. If you're angry, be angry, but you can be angry for a short time, then we move through it. You don't need to bottle it up. Can name it and feel it. And then, and look, they see me crying on the kitchen floor all the time when things get really like— when the dips are dipping. There was a time there was a lot of— actually had a stool in the kitchen. I don't know why the kitchen, but, um, so they, they see all the emotions, they see the roller coaster, and I talk to them. And if I lose my temper with them, I talk a lot about the— I'm sorry that that happened, that was on me, I lost control of my behavior. So I think naming a lot of what we go through and, um, showing them also that it's it's okay to make mistakes and that I'm not perfect and to teach them that perfectly, we want perfectly imperfect is what we want. And so I suppose it's just, it's a marathon, isn't it? Not a sprint, right? Yeah. And having them down in the stockroom helping me pack when we get an insane number of orders, like, they, and they understand the why too because they wear them and they feel the relief and they have lots of friends that wear them too. And so they're really involved in the whole journey actually.

Huh.

They're getting incredible lessons at a very early age, which is a blessing for them and a blessing for you to be able to show that to them. One more question: what's one thing about yourself, Susie, that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

Don't like cooked carrots.

Ah, don't like cooked carrots. Oh, there's a story there too, I bet.

Really?

You can have it. You'll eat other cooked vegetables, but you won't eat cooked carrots.

I'll eat them raw too. I'll eat— it's not I don't like carrots. I just don't like them cooked.

You put a little drizzle of maple syrup and some cayenne pepper on them.

Even worse.

Oh, okay. I'm a cook.

Honey carrots. Honey carrots are like the, like, they're like my evil arch nemesis.

Oh my God. Okay. Don't like cooked carrots. I don't think I've heard that one before either.

I don't know what else, because I'm pretty open book and I talk about everything and anything.

So that's great. Well, this has been a fast interview, Susie. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day. 8:00 there, I think, isn't it?

Yeah, 8:30.

Morning, 8:30 in the morning on a— must be on a Tuesday. Yeah, it is Monday here in California. Well, thank you so much. It's been great, great having you on the show.

Thanks so much, Doug. I've really enjoyed our chat. It's been hysterical.

Good for you. Take care.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.