131 - From Beach Weddings to Million Dollar Collars: The Inventor's Journey with Rob Kessler

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Rob Kessler, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the inventor, co-founder, and I guess, owner of Million Dollar Collar, and you can be found, or the shirts and shirt stays that we'll be talking about can be found at gotylist.com. Welcome to the show.

Yeah, I'm not very good with titles, so that, I think that's probably a pretty good intro. Okay.

Um, shirt stays. Just briefly explain, explain what a shirt stay is as opposed to a collar stay.

So a collar stay obviously goes, it goes in the collar and keeps the collar from curling. Right. Well, I got married on the beach in Jamaica. I love wearing dress shirts and I hate wearing ties. So I took the idea of a collar stay, I made it 9 inches long and I put it down the front of the shirt where the buttons and the holes are. So I can wear a dress shirt all day long and it'll never collapse, it'll never fold, it'll never look terrible. Especially when you have a jacket, you know, when you put on a jacket and it just ends up tucking under the lapel, right? Will never happen in a shirt with Million Dollar Collar. So the first company was Million Dollar Collar, which is the technology that can be sewn into any shirt you already own. So for a couple bucks for the stays and then, you know, $8 or $10 at your tailor, it's sewn in once, lasts the life of the shirt. We've sold over half a million units direct to consumer that way. And we've been trying to license this technology to these brands, but they all think that they know everything. So We said, screw it, we're going to make our own shirt, and we call that Go Tieless. So if you want to try Million Dollar Collar in a shirt, it's already made. They're $70, they're really great value, and it's already got the technology built in. Wrinkle-resistant bamboo stretch fabric. They're pretty awesome.

All right, great pitch. Uh, let's— what's your backstory? How did all this happen?

Uh, well, I started cutting grass like most kids. Uh, the one thing I think that was different for me is My dad gave us, we had like a $5 allowance, but he gave it to us with the intention, um, we also had to pay for lunch, uh, school lunch. So on Sunday night, me and my brother and sister would get our $5 allowance and our school lunch money on Sunday night. And he taught us this financial responsibility at, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old. And, you know, he's like, look, you want to party on Monday and Tuesday, you're going to starve on the rest of the week. So you learn quickly how to save money and, and get by with enough food. So it started with that. I was cutting grasses. I don't know why, but I was 13 years old cutting grass, did my dad's house, then did the neighbor's house, and did another neighbor's house. And I would just literally think, I'm gonna cut this grass so good that someone's gonna drive by and want me to cut their grass. And I kind of lived on a cul-de-sac, so there wasn't, wasn't a lot of traffic, but I still had it in my head that somebody was going to ask me to cut their grass.

And what happened?

Uh, I, I had my, my couple of neighbors, you know, my dad paid me, I don't know, $5, and he said, enjoy the roof over your head and all the food you have. And my neighbors were all paying $15, so I got to his when I could. But, um, I did just a couple grasses, and then I've always kind of had a business mindset. I think I got into a little soccer and volleyball store in high school, and day one, the owner handed me a key to the store, he handed me a code to the alarm and said, this is yours too, and really made me feel like I was part of the team at 17 years old, and then I had a vested interest in it even though I was making whatever, $8 an hour or whatever it was. And I worked my way through that business, man. I became— I would help with ordering, I would help with finances. I built this whole spreadsheet so we could track sales and do all the stuff, and it was really cool. So for 4 years I did that, high school into college. I actually worked full-time through all 4 years of college. So I was 2 years at that store, and then I went 2 years to work with my dad in the jewelry store. And then after college, I moved out of the city. My dad was opening his first store out of town, so I moved to that teeny little town in Appleton, Wisconsin, to open his first out-of-city store. I only lasted 9 months because, you know, Milwaukee's not huge, but Appleton is like a fraction.

So I've been to Appleton, I know what you mean. Yeah.

So, um, I came, I wanted to move back to Milwaukee, and my dad's business is that, you know, he supported 150 lives, and he said, you know, If I've got room, I'll fit you. If I don't, I won't. And he didn't have room. So I had this passion for cars. I went and sold cars for a while. Um, I had some friends living out in LA, and so since I had worked all the way through college and never took spring break or summer break, I was like, I'm gonna just take— I took 9 months off of life. I went out to LA and just kind of had fun. Came home, got into real estate, um, ended up buying 2 commercial buildings. We had 32 offices, my wife and I. Sold those for a massive profit. Invented Million Dollar Collar, had a screen printing business. After we sold the businesses, we bought a yacht, had a yacht charter business for 4 years in LA, uh, and then about 2 and a half years ago we moved to Atlanta. So I'm doing the shirt business full-time now, uh, with profits from the boat business, and, you know, just figuring it all out.

You're a 50— you're a licensed 50-ton Coast Guard master. How did you get that license?

Um, well, we owned a little ski boat in Wisconsin, so I was able to use a lot of days on water for— from that boat And then I had a friend who had a charter business in Los Angeles, and so he would take me out with him. As long as there's a captain on board, anybody can really drive the boat. So he would let me drive, and I got— it's not really about the time on the water, it's that experience. And so, you know, I was really getting to learn how to maneuver 40, 50, 60-foot boats pretty quickly once I got to LA. So, um, did all that, and then we, we bought a boat, and I finished up my license and got licensed at the Six Pack, is the opening license. And then after a few years, I had enough more days on the water to upgrade to a 50-ton master.

Wow. And so you ran a charter business as well, party boat?

Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

Is that in the marina, in Marina del Rey?

In Marina del Rey, we did that. Um, we catered kind of to— we called it, um, we had the only boat which is called an express cruiser. So most of these boats are these double-decker, you know, big kind of liveaboard type of boats. We had this low-slung, sexy, fast boat. So we were going 30 miles an hour up to Malibu, where these guys are going 12 or 15. So I can get to Paradise Cove in an hour, and we could drop anchor for 3 hours and then be back in an hour. So in a 5-hour cruise, we're at anchor for 3, everybody's had a great time. That was our big thing. So we probably started our prices pretty low and ended up being the most expensive boat in the— almost the most expensive boat in the charter fleet. Definitely for our size, we're the most expensive. And then sold that business about a year ago.

Huh. And then, and then you, you abandoned LA and moved to Atlanta?

Yes, had to get out, man. The taxes were just killing us. I mean, it's, it's crazy.

Yeah, I know. I, I grew up in Southern California, got out right after high school, never came back.

Yeah.

But I still have family down there. So you got this collar business going now, or not collar, but shirt business going now. What is it that gets you excited in the morning? You get up and roar.

You know, every new customer that tries it, you know, you never know who they know. You know, maybe a guy owns a bar, restaurant, or hotel and wants to, he gets one to try it and then ends up hooking up his whole staff. So We've been getting some orders like that. We just— I'm delivering some jewelry store shirts today. So it's just exciting. I mean, I never thought that I was going to change the dress shirt industry, but, you know, you look back at the way men dress for the last 15 or 20 years and the tie has just completely gone to the wayside. And that's the most frustrating thing for me, which is also inspirational, is I talk to these brands, you know, I was just talking to a very large retail store and they're like, oh no, ties are coming back. I can't be selling a non-tie shirt. We're selling ties. And like, I don't know who you think's buying a tie, but you probably got to sell 30 or 40 dress shirts to sell one tie. And they are— it's, it's the most frustrating thing. So I know once I pop that first one that it's going to go insane. So we're just— I always say we're playing that quarter game in Vegas where it slides the stack forward. So I've been feeding quarters into this for 7 years and it's gonna knock that stack over soon.

Well, you know, it's so interesting. I'm a lawyer. I don't practice law anymore. I haven't practiced law in over 20 years, but I look at my colleagues and outside of the courtroom, nobody's wearing a tie these days. When I mediate or arbitrate, nobody is dressed up. The only people that I see dressed, really dressed up these days are the politicians in Washington.

That and people on TV, the news and politicians. And so, I don't know, want to be either of those? Not most people don't.

So, yeah, no, exactly. So, so you, you developed— I, I know in, in, uh, reading your backstory that it took you a lot of trial. You're like Thomas Edison, right? A thousand, a thousands, these didn't, this didn't work, this isn't the right way to do it, until you finally figured it out. As you look at it today, what is it that gets you really excited about the business?

You know, it's the conversations. It's knowing that I've been grinding for 7 years trying to build this thing. And when that order comes through, I mean, we were, so October of 2019, you could picture the time not knowing what was ahead, but We were in the number one seller of dress shirts in America. They sell 30 million men's shirts a year. They called us, so we went to meet with them. They were loving it. I actually got married. There's my wedding shirt on the counter in their shirt. So I was like, if you guys want marketing gold, here is me in my wedding shirt back 7 years later selling to you guys. They were gonna do a 2.5 million unit test. And then see how it went. And then it all worked out that, you know, the world kind of imploded, and then they had some other issues internally. But, um, so I know it's there. I mean, we've been on the doorstep a couple times. And so, you know, now that we've hit half a million units sold direct to consumer, which is the hardest way to go, I feel a lot more confident going back and having these conversations again. I mean, most of those employees have turned over, so it's all brand new conversations with all these companies, but when one does it, you know, everybody's going to get on board. And we've— I've— I loved LA for the networking and the type of people that I met. And one of the guys I met is friends with some owners of, you know, multi-billion dollar dress shirt clothing companies. And so he's starting to make introductions. He was actually a client on the boat. He was— came out a bunch of times, and we met a bunch of great people with him. But, um, so, you know, I've got a lot of great support. Everybody I talk to is very positive about what we're doing, and Yeah, I hate what my shirt looks like. I gotta do that. And, you know, every new convert is, uh, it's just one more person. So love it.

Uh, I think you're right. I think that once one manufacturer picks it up, the rest are going to have to.

Um, I mean, at the end of the day, nobody wants to be technically first, but nobody wants to be last. So, right, it's— that's why we created the brand. I'm like, look, if you guys aren't going to license it, I'm going to build a brand with nothing really that special about our shirt other than the technology. And I'm gonna force you to pay attention.

So, and how's that going? It's going good.

You know, we, um, I set my goal at 1,000 shirts, and that meant I want to sell— my first goal is sell 1,000 shirts, and then it's sell 1,000 in a calendar year, and then it's sell 1,000 in 6 months, and then it's sell 1,000 in a month, and then a week, and then a day. So we're starting to tick those 1,000 shirt marks, starting to move shirts. I mean, obviously in this business, I don't get a lot of returns with Million Dollar Collar, but I get a lot of exchanges with the shirts. So that's a whole new thing that we're, you know, figuring out. But I love it. We're— we've already ordered 3 times. We've got a new color coming in and it's starting to get some traction. So, you know, as we get into some of these businesses and to these where I'm selling 25, 30, 40 shirts at a time, 100 shirts at a time. That, that, that's really where I wanna be.

Right. Are you, are, is it all retail now or are you selling any, any wholesale to stores?

So we're in a couple stores. We're starting that process. We will, we've gotta deal with one of the big, you know, I was in the screen printing business and so we've, there's several companies you can order your blanks from. We're talking to one of those distributors to distribute, you know, to that type of client that would look for, you know, to be embroidering and, and doing shirts. So, you know, kind of setting all those things up. We want the production in place. We started in China, which I hate, but we had to do it for the price. Now that we've gotten the volume up, we're moving to Sri Lanka. So we went from like a 250-piece minimum per color to 1,500 pieces. So it was— that's a big step for us to move to Sri Lanka. So moving production to Sri Lanka. So that last, last order of China shirts is coming in right here before Black Friday, we'll sell through a ton of those and then be reordering again early next year. So how do you—

how do you set up the logistics in a place like Sri Lanka?

So through all my years of clothing and meeting people, I met a guy whose family is a part owner of a factory in China, and then he kind of manufactures reps to other factories around the world. So we worked really closely with him. You know, we took a great selling shirt and said, let's recreate this. Let's change a couple of things. Let's add my technology. So they had a really great baseline to start from. And so we've just kind of been evolving it through that.

So you feel that Sri Lanka is going to be more stable than working in China?

I just don't like the image of China. You know, that Sri Lanka's quality is going to be a little bit better. Price is better. So overall, it's going to be good. It's the hard part is the lead time is trying to understand that for me. I mean, when I had my screen printing business, if you ordered for me on Tuesday, I'd have them on Wednesday. I'd probably print them Wednesday or Thursday and I'd be paid by Friday, right? So I like that turnover. That was really quick for me. But, you know, these take 90 days, 120 days from order to receive if we're doing them by boat or by air. And then it's such a significant difference price to do it by air. So now we're okay, I gotta ship 3 sizes by air because I'm near out or out, and then the rest can come by boat, and hopefully they make it before Black Friday so we can fulfill these orders. And it's just like, I like the logistics, I like figuring that stuff out, um, but it, it's challenging for sure.

Yeah, I mean, you've got to be forecasting out what you— because you don't want to, you don't have too much, you got to have enough inventory but not too much.

And I don't know, I mean, I don't know about what's the trending color and stuff, so we're just like, okay, well, we went with the 3 most basic colors: white, black, and light blue, which is the number 1 selling color in the world. And now we've added a white shirt with a navy check pattern. It's a nice big pattern. It's not like that gingham, uh, tablecloth-looking shirt. It's a nice clean checker pattern. But, you know, we'll hopefully start adding people to the team where you're the designer and, you know, you guys do this and we'll start adding to the team soon, '24.

So as you think about all of this, what is it that's unique about you that you bring to the table that makes all this work?

So one of the amazing people I met in LA was one of the founders of Expedia and he became a very, very close friend and he said, you need to read Rocket Fuel. And that book is all about, there's an innovator an implementer, and I am bar none the innovator. I will look at a situation, I'm a total problem solver. I mean, even with our boat, I went and said, number one, I don't want to drive that other kind of boat, I want to drive this kind of boat because it's kind of our boat, but we bought it for the charter business. But we were the only one that was that style. So I'm like, if everybody's going over here, I want to go over here. So we— I love to find a niche in, in any kind of business that I'm working on. And so I can do that My boat business was super successful. The, the real estate was successful because of my wife. She is an absolute beast on the A personality. We got to do this, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. She wrote contracts, she did the liability waivers, she figured out the website, she's got great graphic design, so she does all these posts. I mean, she's just incredible. So she's kind of the behind the scenes. But you know, they said there would be no Disney World without Roy Disney, and nobody really knows Roy. You know, Walt would be out there writing checks for stuff that he didn't have money for. That's— I'm the innovator, absolutely, and she's the implementer. So it's pretty cool.

Wow, that's a great team. And she's, she's enjoying the shirt business too.

She, she's part of it. I've got another partner, um, he's, he's filling in that role for her, um, and she is a, uh, she's a stuntwoman. She is absolutely incredible. Um, so she's out working on a new movie right now in Savannah, so she's out of town right now. So, um, I'll see her in a few more days, another week.

She's a stuntwoman in the film industry?

Yeah, that's why we're in Atlanta. We left LA. Um, she had no idea what she was going to do. We ended up meeting people and they're like, you know, have you ever thought about doing stunts? And she always kind of wanted to be on camera. She always kind of had that passion. Started training with people and she's one of the most successful stunt women in the industry today. So wow, 7 years. So, and then, uh, I think 80, she's got 80, 80 different things on her IMDb. So she's been in a ton of stuff.

So this show's called Listening with Leaders because I'm, I think that listening is a foundational skill of success and leadership. Tell me, give me your perspectives on how important listening is to you.

Yeah, I mean, my dad was a big Stephen Covey fan and there's that one that is, you know, listen with the intent to hear, you know, don't be listening to respond. And, you know, we all get caught up in wanting to get your point across, but it's definitely, you know, you got two ears and one mouth, so you should listen. A lot better. I mean, I'm, I'm, I think the one thing that's made us successful so far in the clothing business is my ability to hear what the customer said. We actually launched through a Kickstarter well before I was ready. I hadn't even finished the design. We were going to come out with our own shirt. We did not get funded, but the unequivocal, unequivocal feedback from people willing to give us money was Why are you trying to compete with all the other brands? Why not license the technology? And why can't I upgrade the shirts I already know and love? And so my design was going to be this really big built-in— I mean, it was going to come from the factory like that. And I said, well, man, these people that are going to give me money said you should do it this way. And so I changed the entire design of it. The entire direction of the company changed off of that feedback. And then over the years, it's been just more and more of that type of feedback. I'm a very customer-centric guy. I want to know that what I'm putting across is— I want to make it as easy as possible for someone to try my product. I also want to listen if they have an issue. So we ended up building this network of installers. We're in 650 dry cleaners and tailors. So I want to make it as easy for someone to just buy it, go on a website, find someone local that knows how to do it. I mean, we spent, I don't know, $100 grand going to dry cleaning trade shows, which is not the most exciting thing in the world, but We were in front of the people that had the stores, you know, right? Not the mom and pop, it's, it's the guy that's got 10 or 15 or 20 store chain. That's who we want to talk to. So we're in all those places. I ended up starting out the clothing side by buying branded shirts from like Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren and those types of places and upgrading them ourselves and then selling an upgrade. So, you know, you already know what you feel in a Tommy Hilfiger shirt, so why not buy a shirt you already know and and then try the technology that way. If you don't want to go through the installation process, we've got a VIP mail-in service where you can just mail us 5 shirts and then, you know, we can upgrade them for you. So I always want to make it as easy as possible for the customer.

So how did the dry cleaning people take this idea?

So our first show, it's called the Clean Show, and we did it in Vegas and we had this little tiny 10 by 10 booth and we were next to like Dickies and some of these huge brands. And we had a line.

We—

it was like we were giving away $1,000 bills. I mean, we were— people were like lined up to get involved. So the hard part, as you know, if you've ever been to a dry cleaner, is you walk in and you probably got some 16-year-old girl who's like, how many shirts you have? You have any stains? I'll see you in 3 days. You know, they don't sell anything. So we had to create all of the point of sale. We had to create— we created flyers. Packs. If you buy a 100-pack, we'll give you like 5,000 flyers. You can enter, like, just anything we could do to try to get them to not have to think about it, because they make all the money. We don't make that much money. I mean, I want to do on volume, but they're going to sell, you know, a good margin. So it makes it easier for everybody if they do it. And we convinced a bunch to do what we call the first shirt free, because, you know, guys going to dry cleaner, he doesn't have 5 shirts, he's probably got 30 shirts or 40 shirts. So if you try it in one and love it, which I know he'll love it. I mean, our dry cleaners that do it, they're like, yep, we give them one and they come back with 20, 30 more shirts at $10 a shirt. You know, that's, that's well worth the one for free. But, you know, their job is to clean shirts. They're not thinking about innovating in that. I mean, they're thinking about innovating in how can I clean a shirt faster or cheaper. They're not thinking about like these types. And a lot of them that had tailoring have lost the tailoring because that art is kind of dying. So it's just, that's been challenging. And that's why I'm leaning into the shirts more too, is it's just an easier transaction. Like, buy a shirt, you like it or you don't, I mean, you can get it.

So interesting.

Always pivoting, man. It's just like you hit up against one roadblock, it's like, it's like I feel like I'm a Roomba sometimes. I just sit and like, okay, well, maybe this will work, and just keep trying things until, you know, something's gonna stick. It's It's just, it's so interesting.

It, you know, I, it, I don't, I, I, I, what I do professionally is teach people how to listen and it's the same thing. It's the same. The Roomba metaphor is really good. Yeah. You hit the wall that didn't work later. Run across. Let me try this. Oh, that didn't work. And you're right. In a lot of this stuff, you just keep experimenting, knowing that you've got something that's really valuable. And it's just a matter of time until it clicks and then you become a 20-year overnight success.

Yep.

Right.

We just celebrated our 10-year anniversary, so I'm, you know, I started working on it a little bit after the wedding, so I'm, I'm on the verge. I'm, I'm within 6 months of being a 10, 10-year overnight success.

So there, there you go. One more question. I'll let you go. What's one thing about you that we wouldn't know? Unless you revealed it to us?

Um, I, you know, I'm very curious. I think that's, that's— and I don't know if that's like a very interesting fact, but I just, I want to know. Like, I, I started wake surfing with some friends. I mean, I tried wakeboarding a while ago, and I literally couldn't walk for 3 days after. I got a bad back. So, um, wake surfing, it's totally different. I popped up and, and I, I'm willing to fail, you know. I think the part about being curious, I think a lot of people get this ego and like, well, I don't want to try that because if I don't do it well, then I'm going to be a failure. Like, well, dude, if you're not failing, you're not trying, and you're just stuck in this little rut, and that's boring. I mean, we moved to Atlanta. My wife was here working. She started looking at houses. She said, this is the house I want it, make it happen. I've had my real estate license for 20 years, so I figured it out. There was 9 offers, 5 of them were cash, and we won. And 2 weeks later, after dropping that offer and getting accepted, I had our house in LA packed and we were gone. 2 weeks. Wow. Our whole house gone. I actually had to unbolt the front seat of the car because I have a 130-pound Rottweiler and another dog, so I needed them to have enough room. To drive across country with her stuff. That is crazy.

If people want to get in touch with you, is there a way for them to do that? They want to learn more about the colorless shirt?

Yeah, I mean, I think Go Tieless. We're building up the Instagram on that. It's a newer venture, so there's not a lot of people, but there's a lot of activity. gotieless.com is the website where you can get the shirts. I made up a discount code if you want to try them. It's LTL, listening to leaders. 15, so you get 15% off your order if you wanna try it. There are only $70 as it is, or 2 for $110. So you're getting a great deal. What's the discount code? LTL15.

LTL15.

Yep.

Got it.

And then I'm on LinkedIn at Rob Kessler III, because I'm the third.

Okay. Well, thanks a lot. It's been a great conversation. Thank you.

Yeah, it's been great.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.