165 - Navigating Challenges, Embracing Growth, and Shaping the Future with World Emblem's Randy Carr

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. Randy Carr, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the CEO of World Emblem, found at worldemblem.com, and you're in the business of being the largest emblem manufacturer in the world. 1,500 employees, million square feet of manufacturing space. Big business. Crazy.

Yeah. It's, uh, that's a bit— Yeah.

It all started, it all started back in '83 when you joined your dad in the business.

Well, yeah. I mean, '80, it was more, it was '88, I think. But, uh, but I'm, what am I, 51? Yeah. '88 started. It was like '87, '88. I joined him out of, uh, out of high school., and, uh, um, and then the business went under and we restarted it in Hialeah, Florida in 1990 and then incorporated World Element in '93. And, uh, sort of here we are.

But it's been a lot of ups and downs, right?

More than I care to share. But, uh, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, you know, I draw kind of a line on paper when I talk to my son about it. I'm like, I start like in this spot and I can't really I end in this spot and it goes sort of like a heartbeat and the emotions go high, high, high in the day and low, low, low today and just try to end higher than when I walk through the door. But yeah, it's been a ton of ups and downs and millions of mistakes and that kind of stuff.

How is it, do you think, that you've been able to grow this business from a family-owned operation to the enterprise that it is today?

Somebody asked me that on Monday. I was with dinner. I was at dinner with one of my, like, a tactical supplier, tactical vendor, and I think the answer— first of all, it's a lot of— it's cliché, like, we found the right industry, we found the right customers, um, uh, and then a lot of it's just like persevering through a lot of sort of, um, headwinds, and also like meticulously wanting to scale and understanding that The desire to scale the business and, you know, always kind of looking for how we properly scale, I think, is one of the other answers. And, you know, obviously having the right people, the right customers, that kind of stuff is instrumental.

Right. Yeah. And since you've been with the same— basically family business for all these years, you've had to grow into the role of CEO. What's that been like?

So like, for a while there— and I would say it's probably not even been 5 or 6 years— but before that, um, you know, you'd read in a book, what is a CEO? Um, you know, I didn't finish college. I went to a year of college. So, um, you know, I didn't really know what CEO is supposed to do. Um, you know, I would ask a coach here and a coach there, like, what is the CEO supposed to do? And they're like, you're supposed to make the vision and do the values and that kind of stuff. And You know, the time I'd look online and find some values and I put them on a board, I'm like, these are our values. Like, none of that really stuck. It wasn't— none of it was grounded in reality. It wasn't really who we were. Um, it was just kind of fodder on a page to kind of fill a box. Um, so, uh, I think, you know, I really figured it out about 7 or 8 years ago, but a lot of it came through just surrounding myself, you know, getting into YPO was a huge thing. Getting myself around other people that have either been where I was at the time or am now currently, or was at the very beginning. Like, you know, if I were to look back on it, I probably would have said like YPO would have been— I would have joined that the first chance I got. And instead it just took me, you know, an extra 10 years to kind of throw myself into it after making a, a ton of stupid mistakes that almost ran us out of business. Um, but like the short answer to your question is I, at this point, I know what a CEO does, um, because I really do have myself surrounded with the right group of professionals that are kind of walking me down that path. But, uh, you know, 10 years ago I had no idea. It was, you know, you just work from whatever was coming over your desk, um, and you hope you're working on the right stuff. And, uh, that's, uh, that's kind of scary because you go home at night and you're like, you know, like there's nothing that's guaranteeing that the business is here the next day. Um, you know, the more employees we got, the bigger the company got, the scarier it got, and it never really seemed to clear itself up.

So it sounds like you were—

it sounds like it was brush fire after brush fire for, uh, I would say probably, probably a decade and a half.

That's pretty chaotic. How did you get it all under control?

Um, you know, I think it started— we, we hired a firm called Rhythm Systems, which was, um, like based on The Rockefeller Habits, uh, by Bernard Harnish. And that was like the one— I mean, there was a, you know, I read quite a bit, but there's a couple books that like were just grounding, like grounding in stages. Um, you know, forgetting about like, um, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and like The Think and Go Rich and that kind of stuff. Like, so those are like sort of cementing from like life cementing. But The Rockefeller Habits by Bernard Arnish was the one that was like, um, uh, that just had these sort of principles that really, uh, that I could lock myself into. And then I reached out to them and they had another consulting firm that came in to consult. And this is about 15 years ago. And I remember like clearly the, the consultant sits down with me in a room and he says, uh, he comes in to do annual planning. And I didn't even know what annual planning was. So I grew up grabbed what I thought was an executive team, which like a bunch of guys around the business that have been there for a while. And, uh, it wasn't really an executive team, it was just a bunch of people that I trusted around the business. Uh, we sat in a room and he says— and, you know, I remember like me and my brother almost got a fistfight. And the guy—

it had to—

it was 20 years ago. But he says to me, he goes, plan for a year? We can't even get you guys— we can't even get you guys to plan for a day. And then he pulls me aside and he says to me, look, if I'm gonna do this for you, you gotta get this guy out of here, this guy, this guy out of here, and you gotta fire these few people. And I just did what he said because he was right, and I knew he was right. I just needed somebody to kind of push me in that direction. And it, you know, it took a couple years, uh, of, uh, of getting that right, um, you know. And then we hit our next calamity, which was, um, you know, I'm very comfortable with tech, um, but we hit sort of this sort of tax ceiling, and we had to go from a small, small business to like a big business. And to make that technical leap, you have to go from a small to a really big business and grow kind of into that, and that's really expensive. And I, you know, I had this kind of— to dominate— this dominating fear that I was always going to go broke and the next shoe was going to drop. So I never wanted to spend the money. Um, you know, I always thought we could do it ourselves, I could figure it out, right? But At the level we were kind of building the business, it was just not feasible. Um, and we were having tech problem after tech problem, and I was just in this cycle of purgatory. I couldn't get that right. And I finally made a hire, and the guy comes in, and within 2 days it was like, like the— um, and then it was stages, you know. The next one was to, to, uh, one of my YPO, uh, forum mates, um, says, you got to try this lean stuff, it's the greatest thing ever, it's like cheating. And he's got a billion-dollar business, and I just listened to what he said. And, uh, you know, we've now been on our Lean journey for 4 years, and, uh, the difference is monumental. Um, so, so yeah, at this point it's just the stages of sort of getting the right things in the right spot, you know, the systematic way of running the business. And that's a lot of what's happening now.

So what is it— you've been doing this for a long time now— what is it that gets you out of bed in the morning, gets you excited to go to work?

All right, so it was fear for about 15 years. So, so yeah, it was, it was fear. It was fear. It really was fear for about 15 years. Um, uh, you know, now I really like it. I like a lot of what I do. Um, you know, it's really organized, the business is well run. Um, so I sort of like the next challenge that we're gonna have ahead of us. Uh, again, like, it's very organized, so I sort of know what's going to happen every day. Um, and, uh, so, you know, I just enjoy the, the, the now the building of the business in a systematic way. So, and, you know, I have my son, my older one, who's graduated school. Um, he's 21. I'm looking forward to getting into the business. Um, that's exciting for me. Um, and I do really like to see, uh, again, the success of the business is sort of the tools that we're putting in the business to excel the business forward. I like the competition. So I like the idea of competing against the other companies. And the fact that we're doing as well as we are is, you know, it's exciting to sort of be creating space between us and our nearest competitors. You know, I got back from a trade show last week and it was super cool. I was able to walk around and kind of see all our customers and our suppliers in one room. You know, I spent the whole day hugging people and high-fiving. That was a lot of fun.

Good for you. So what is, you know, as you look back on your career, pretty much a self-made CEO, very successful today with, as you say, a lot of missteps and ups and downs along the way. What is it you think that's unique about you that's allowed you to make this journey work?

Um, I, I think being like hyper consistent. Like, um, I'm very routine-based. So, um, you know, I'm up at 4:30 in the morning, I read, go to the gym, I'm at work every day, I don't miss. Um, I'm very routine in the, the things that we do at work. So like, when we have meetings, we don't miss meetings. Like, we don't miss. Like, you can, you can miss, but we don't miss. So it means like you have to have— so things like that. Um, so the routine has forced me to be very disciplined in the business as well. Yeah, you know, I think, uh, you know, the discipline, the routine, the systematic approach to running the business and running my life, um, and that's family, uh, fitness, um, uh, my mental health, my physical health, my emotional and spiritual health, financially those disciplines that have allowed me to be very grounded. So, and again, that wasn't always the case. Like, I had to build into that, um, uh, you know, but that— I figured that out in my mid-30s after, again, I almost destroyed everything. And it took, it took like a good— that took a good psychologist and a good YPO forum. Um, and they're not always teaching me. It's a group, like, you know, YPO is a You know, you surround yourself with people and you experience share. And by experience sharing, you're just picking up the best and the worst of everybody's experiences, right? And you've got to come to your own conclusion as to how you want to frame your life, right?

I saw on your LinkedIn profile that you were into extreme sports. Tell me a little bit more about that.

I'd say most of it's skiing, most of it's skiing and martial arts.

So there we have it. I'm a secondary black belt and a level 3 certified ski instructor.

Oh, nice. So I was a junior Olympic skier when I was a kid.

Great.

I did that, and now, uh, um, and I am a second-degree black belt in Taekwondo and Kempo.

So for you, yeah, and I'm a second-degree in a Northern Chinese animal style and a Tai Chi master. So there's—

that's— it's the— like, for me, that was another thing that was, well, you know, I had kind of a fear of getting in front of people and all those kinds of things, and that really helped me get over a lot. Like, my instructor didn't even care about one bit. He would pull me up in class and punch me in the chest, and he'd make me do forms, and it was mortifying in the beginning. Then you just got to figure it out.

You learn humility very rapidly.

Yeah, but like, humility is like an awesome thing, right? Like, you just know that sort of everybody's kind of great at some stuff and they're terrible at other stuff. And if you stick at it, you can at least get good. You know, you may never be a certain master, but like, you know, you're going to be better than you were yesterday.

So incremental improvement. Um, so this show is called Listening with Leaders for a reason. I don't know if you learned anything about me, I'm a lawyer turned peacemaker, and I see listening as sort of the foundational skill of life. I'm curious about the role of listening in your development as a CEO and leader.

You know, I can only like go back to like seek to understand and then be understood, kind of Stephen Covey-ish sort of stuff and meditating in the morning. But beyond that, It's a tough one. Uh, it's a tough one.

Hard to listen?

To be a good listener and like remind yourself to actually listen to what other people are saying and not be thinking about a response before. Um, and I, I, you know, I don't want to say I'm the best at it because I'm probably not. I have to consciously tell myself to bite my tongue, um, you know, and, and yeah, and I'm really— I'm not, I'm not the best at it. The older I get, the more patient I get, And so I think, yeah, now I'm 51, so I'm a little better at it than I was, but I think I could always excel at that skill considerably more.

You know what I found is that it's a skill that has to be taught and learned. It's not something that being a good listener is not something that's innate. We have capacity to be great listeners, but until somebody shows us how to do it, We can't do it. And most people have no clue how to listen. I didn't know how to listen for a long— I was a trial lawyer for 22 years, and then I left the practice of law to become a peacemaker and mediator. And it was only 5 years after that that I discovered how to be a good listener.

And what's the, what's the, the secret? Yeah, what's the, what's the secret?

Learn how to listen to emotions rather than to words. That's the secret. Um, and We can talk more about that later if you want.

Yeah.

Okay. So where do you, where does the business go from here? You're 51 years old. You've got a business that's got in what I think I read, 5 different countries and manufacturing facilities everywhere. You're still growing. Where do you see the business going and the patch business? I mean, all you do is do embroidered patches.

Crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, it's not just embroidered patches, but it's really just branding. So like, Okay, so we have a couple things, um, on our like technical forefront that are disruptive to our existing industry and a new industry. So that's the first thing. So, um, you know, in the business we sort of have— we have one department and their entire, um, their entire job is to sort of develop one product a year to get $20 million in revenue in 10 years. So every year they kind of come up with something. Not everything works, right? So we kind of have that going on. You know, we're now looking at some strategic acquisitions. So we have that kind of in the middle. And then the generational piece about bringing my son in.

Succession planning.

Looking for a third gen. We have our 3-year plan and kind of the things that I just pointed out to you are sort of the 3 pieces to it.

Right. Wow. Good for you. Yeah, the succession planning can be very tricky. I've done a lot of family business conflicts where succession planning was not done. And by the time you get down to the third generation, it gets very problematic unless you're really thinking about it. So that's something to put some real thought into. Yeah. Well, you've done a, you've got an amazing story, Andy. It's impressive. And what's really impressive to me, having interviewed over 150 CEOs on this show, is that You're one of the few people who comes in with some, with this authenticity that I made a lot of mistakes and I finally got it figured out. There are very few people who are in a place where they can actually admit to that.

So I want to be, I want to be careful to qualify. I don't have anything figured out.

So, all right. Well, from the outside looking in, it looks like you've got, you've got to figure out enough that you're growing and successful. All right. How about if we leave it like that?

I can answer that. I can, you know, I know that I don't know. I know I know no less than I knew before and like, You know, I'm consistently— we're consistently surrounding ourselves with coaches all over the place. You know, we had University of Kentucky, their, uh, their continuous improvement people here yesterday. I have people at the university today. Um, we have their teams in Mexico. So like, that's part of the lean thing. I was on the phone with consultants just an hour ago trying to figure out how to accelerate our HRIS to get us looking under AI, like what are we doing our AI strategy. So the answer is like, again, it's just a systematic approach to kind of absolutely running the business. But by no means do I have any of this figured out. I'm still petrified. There's still moments of the day where I'm petrified and moments where I feel really good. Today I feel really good.

Well, good. I'm glad. I'm glad you feel good on the show here. Thanks. One more question.

That's right, because of you.

Okay, well, thanks. One more question. What is one thing about you that we would never know unless you revealed it to us?

Um, You know, maybe that I'm an introvert, you know, like, I'm not surprised. Yeah, maybe that I'm just an introvert. Like, when I'm done working, I want to go home and just watch TV, go sleep, watch football. Like, but, you know, like I was telling you, when I was at a trade show last week, and from 6 in the morning until 10 at night for 4 straight days, I was hugging and high-fiving people, and I loved it. But at the end of the day, like, you know, I just kind of want to be with my wife and my kids and my dogs.

Yeah, we share that. We share that same trait. I'm an introvert too. You'd never know it. Being a formal trial lawyer and doing what I do today. But absolutely, I'd rather come home and be with family than go out and party or be at a bar or shake hands.

Totally agree. And like, I don't, I don't drink, I don't do any of that. So that's sort of, yeah.

Well, it's been a great interview. Thanks for the conversation, Randy. Really appreciate your time today.

Appreciate you having me. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Wanna know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.