169 - Unmasking Authentic Leadership and Emotional Safety in the Workplace with LaJoy Plans' Melva LaJoy Legrand

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Melva LaJoy Legrand, you are the CEO of LaJoy Plans, which can be found at LaJoyPlans.com, which is an interesting agency that we'll talk about in a minute. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

You're welcome. So first of all, I love your smile.

Thank you.

Uh, there it is. That's what I was looking for right there. Uh, so tell us a little bit about your backstory and a little bit about your company.

Sure. And, um, hello to everybody listening. Uh, I'm so glad to be here. A little bit about Melva LaJoy and the story of LaJoy Plans. So what I like to tell people is my name Melva is the gift that my father Melvin gave me, and the LaJoy represents that when I was born, my parents said I was the love and joy of their life. And I called the business LaJoy Plans not because I'm so important, but because this business, this work is the love and joy of my professional life. And this year is year 17.

Wow.

Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

So tell us a little bit about the business.

Sure. I'm, you know, how much time do you have, right? So what I'll, what I'll say briefly is I am just overjoyed, no pun intended, to have a comprehensive events management firm that's specializes in designing occasions, be it conferences, receptions, board meetings, et cetera, for mission-forward organizations, um, globally. And additionally, as a gift, if there could be a gift from COVID uh, we started doing virtual events, but more so now we're doing a lot of script writing and creative direction for commercials. Last year I wrote a beautiful theatrical opening for a convention. And so, um, I like to say we do it all except we don't raise money. Um, but other than that, we are suited to really be an organization's creative partner. Wow.

And how many people do you have in the organization?

So it's amazing. I have a leadership team, a mighty team of 3 individuals. Yes, you heard that correctly. I make 4, and I rely on the partnership of local talent across the country since we travel so much. We're based in DC, but as an example, in February we're going to 3 different states. Wow.

And so you have people, partners in those different states that you rely on for— yes, services are that you need.

Yes, yes.

Or it could be food, or it could be, you know, all kinds of— whatever it is, all kinds of stuff.

Exactly, exactly.

And give, give us a sense of— I don't know how confidential your client list is, but give it— if you can't name names, then give us a sense of the types of clients. You said mission-driven.

What does that mean?

So mission, um, forward means this: they are organizations that work on causes that I believe in, and they are organizations that are doing really, really hard work to make our society better. So That includes education equity like the Education Trust. That includes an amazing organization based in New York. They're celebrating 45 years, Avenues for Justice. We also work on climate change. We work on college access. We work on women's rights. I mean, every equity-forward issue you can imagine, everything that is about making the world a better place are the types of projects and organizations I want to be in community with.

Wow. So this is pretty exciting. You get to work with these organizations doing amazing change work and help them present themselves to the world in the best way possible.

Ooh, you said that so good. And I think what I would say is selfishly, I think everybody has a gift or a calling. And for me, This work and this role in this work is absolutely my calling. It is what I am meant to do. It is what I fought to continue to do after COVID. And so that's right, I am on the sidelines. I'm the— our company is the behind the scenes behind some major societal change. Wow. And it's, and it's what I'm meant to do. Sure.

Excellent for you. And I would imagine that when you're setting up events, that when you're actually on site, there's not a lot of sleep for 3 or 4 days.

Sleep? What's that? No, there's, there's a lot of coffee, probably too much coffee, but not a lot of, not a lot of sleep. I would say that. But, you know, it ebbs and flows. I think our industry event planners are known as, you know, burning the midnight oil. Oil and hustle culture, and that is partially true, but it— but it's not a constant. Because if it was a constant, I couldn't give my best to my team, to my family, to my clients. And so, um, while there are moments— like, I'm getting ready to enter into a moment where they're probably 15-hour days— there's also moments like December, I closed the office for 3 weeks. And close, close, not like made up close, like I'm closed but I'm checking email. No, like rest.

Good for you. Yeah, no, I didn't, I didn't think that it would be a 24/7 kind of job, 365. I was thinking that when you're on site at an event, like you're going 3 states, each one of those events is going to be— is, it's an intense 3 or 4 day experience. That's what I was referring to.

It is, it is. And it never gets boring, right? I, I never, um, I think the minute I get bored or the minute that I'm not learning or feeling challenged is the minute where it's time to evolve to the next thing. But right now I'm still very much in it.

So what gets you up in the morning and gets you really excited to get, get to work and make things happen?

There's a couple of things. I think in this moment it changes daily. But the first thing I think are the, the quality of the projects. And I mean this sincerely, you know, I'm getting ready to leave for this energy conference. The organization is an all-female executive team. And then after that, we have a retreat experience that we're doing for Black educators. And what gets me up is them. I care about them. I care about their causes. I care about the experience that we're going to create together. I think the second thing that gets me up is I feel like it's an honor to be able to work. I think a lot about my ancestors. My grandmother was a brilliant but functionally illiterate maid. My dad was a janitor and a truck driver. And I always like to say I get up because I can and because of them. And I know owning a business, is— would not be possible without their sacrifices, seen and unseen. And so it's like a love letter to everything they poured into me. And then the last reason I get up is for my team and probably the next generation. So I love the idea that there will come a time, a time long from now, where, you know, maybe this season is complete for me, but Maybe it's a team member of mine or a mentee of mine, and some of my training of what to do and maybe of what not to do will help push them in their career. So I get up for who's coming behind me.

Good for you. Your parents still alive?

Um, Melvin, my father passed in 2021, but my mother Joyce, um, is the fire that keeps on burning.

And what does she think about your work?

Um, well, my mom is the resident, uh, president of my fan club and will fight my husband for that title. Um, so for her, I have always been wonderful and amazing and all of the things. But I think my mom— my mom was involved in community organizing and politics as a young— as a young woman. I would see that, and I I think my mom would tell you I'm the reason that she planted the seed to care about, like, mission-forward organizations and to do something about it. So she probably would say that she's my first and most important business advisor.

Of course, I would— of course, I would expect nothing less.

Of course.

So if you think about all of these 17 years that you've been in business and everything, all of your life before that. What is it that's unique about you, Melba, that you bring to the table that makes all this work?

I think that, and I don't know if this is statistically true, but I think one thing that makes me unique is my business began with a couple thousand dollars, my dollars. And through every twist and turn, it has been sustained by my dollar. Not loans, not investors, my dollar. And so I'm very proud to be independently funded and sustained. But beyond the dollars and cents of it all, I think my approach is different. I think, and I've grown into this, I try to lead, I strive to lead with empathy. And I think that part of the reason why my business persists is I am not interested in a transaction. I am interested truly in being in community with people. And because I've formed community with people, our clients are with us for years. And I would like to think it's because I show up as I am. I take on what I can. I own my mistakes. And so I think, uh, to answer your question, I'm not trying to be something I'm not. I am a CEO and I am human, and I let people see my humanity. I do good work, but I give them access to who Melva LaJoy is, and I think that's what people gravitate towards and want to be around. Not the perfect person, because nobody's perfect.

You're making a massive argument for authenticity and vulnerability in leadership.

Oh, I, I have lived it. It is not a secret that I have talked at length about my background as, um, survivor of abuse. It is not a secret that I talk about moments where I paid my team and didn't pay myself. I mean, I can't even have the What are those noodle restaurants? I can't eat those noodle at those noodle restaurants because when I was broke, you would get the little white carton of noodles and that was dinner. So now I can't even think about spending $30 on it. Like, I talk about these things because I think we have to normalize that success is great and it is hard and it is lonely and it is rewarding and it's complex.. But when we— and unfortunately social media does this— when we only see one side of it, we're idolizing something that is false. And so I want to shift that narrative. Some days I am tired, some days I cry, tears of joy, tears of sadness, and all of it is okay.

Good for you.

Thank you.

I wish more CEOs could learn that lesson. By the way, did you know that tears of joy and tears of sadness have— are different chemically? Radically different chemically.

Didn't know that.

I, I could tell you all about that, but it, it's very interesting. Tears are the brain's way of reprogramming itself, cleaning itself out. And when we— I believe that when we repress tears, then we, we are really hurting ourselves physiologically. I think— why do you think it is? I mean, you work with— I'm sure you work with a lot of CEOs in the organizations that you work with. Why do you think being authentic and vulnerable is so difficult for people?

I think it's because up until COVID, we have lived in a society that values results and perfection. And the rest of it, yeah. Like the rest of it, you know, if I see it, I see it. If I don't, I don't. And I think what COVID did, where we were forced in our homes and to be with our stuff, and the stuff that our jobs or happy hour or whatever distracted us from, had to remove the veil.

We were on calls where the kids were in the background, in the middle of the conference, right?

So you couldn't be buttoned up and perfect. And then I think people had to contend with the reality that being buttoned up and perfect is exhausting. You've got to keep up with that version of yourself. But I think prior to, especially I would argue for men, being vulnerable, being authentic, I think we are deprogramming the thought that there's no room for that in the workplace. I would argue that if you don't make room for that in the workplace, people will leave because you're, you're hiring the whole person. So if the only thing you care about is the report that was due at 5 o'clock, you might get that report, but eventually they're going to go to that person who just says good morning and waits for them to—

huh.

So I think we're deprogramming from the, the bad lessons of the past.

Yeah, that's an interesting perspective, and it's a correct perspective.

Thank you.

Um, my experience is that, that there is— well, it's, it's this issue around authenticity and vulnerability is multi-layered. We have a strong cultural bias against it. We have a strong, strong cultural bias against emotions and emotional displays. We have a strong cultural bias against talking about emotions and feelings. Especially in the business world. And it's all wrong because as I teach, we're 98% emotional and only 2% rational. In fact, I teach there's no such thing as rationality. Every decision we make is an emotional decision. We can justify our decisions later using some kind of critical thinking process. But fundamentally, we are either seeking pleasure or avoiding pain, and that's all emotional. And when we can learn to be present with ourselves and authentic and vulnerable and allow people to see us for all, for who we are, just for who we are, strengths and weaknesses, um, I think that's standing in a, in a, a high level of personal integrity. And when you model that behavior to other people, they feel safe. Because you're predictable. And once they feel safe, that's what builds trust and loyalty.

It's true. I can't tell you how many people I have that are virtual friends, if that's a thing. But every now and again, when I've come forward with, uh, being infertile or getting married later in life, or, um, when my account was not even negative red, whatever is beyond negative red— who's that? Um, people have messaged me and said, hey, I'm struggling with this. And I'm thinking to myself, these are people I don't know, and I'm happy to be in community with them, but why are they messaging me? And to your point, it's because in their immediate circle, they don't unfortunately have someone who will accept the full person. They only know the version, the representative, etc. And for me, and I give credit to therapy or just living, I want people around me, and I want to be the type of CEO where the full person is accepted, and we're going to grow together. I'm going to challenge you, I'm going to celebrate you, but I don't, I don't want what's not real because I have a real business. In my real business needs real people to work it, right?

And the secret to that, which you, you've described, is called emotional safety. Why do people come to you? Because you're an emotionally safe person to be with. And I think that is the most powerful attribute a CEO can cultivate. Talk to CEOs about this, they— right?

Sure.

But when you are, but when you, I, I was a Tai Chi master for many years. And in Tai Chi, there are two paradoxes. The first is the softer you are, the stronger you are, the more vulnerable, the more powerful you are. Soft to be strong, vulnerable to be powerful. And when you cultivate that paradox, those paradoxes, you create this safety around you that people want to be a part of. And that's what you experience all the time. You ever— you wonder, why do people come to me, Melva? People out of the blue that I hardly even know, why do they come? You probably ask yourself that.

Yeah, it's true.

It's because you have cultivated a very rare skill, and that's the skill of creating emotional safety for yourself and for others. And that may have evolved from the trauma you suffered from, whatever that was. Your upbringing, your life experience, but you figured out a way to, to create emotional safety for yourself and thereby create emotional safety for people around you. And they're just drawn, they're just drawn to you like flies to honey. That's a leadership skill that very, very few people, CEOs, cultivate. So good job.

Thank you. This is a great podcast. This is really working for me. Just keep giving me all the compliments now. But, um, I, I, I believe in what you're saying. I, I believe that people deserve to feel safe, valued, seen, um, in the workplace, not just at home. I believe that.

That's right. You can't ask people to park their emotions to the door and come in, because when you do that, they're leaving 98% of who they are outside. And who would you rather have working for you, a 2% person or 100% person. Yeah.

Yeah.

And yet you see all these HR directives saying, you know, don't do this, don't do that. You know, you can't say this, you can't say that, you can't be yourself. You've got to fit within this little tiny border.

Yeah.

You have in here that don't allow people to be themselves. And it, it's destructive. That's why, you know, I read in the headlines that CEOs are trying to get people to get out of work from home and come back to the office. And they're saying, if you don't come in, we're going to fire you. And people say, fire me, I don't care, because at home they can be authentic and real, or more authentic than real. But they go back in the office now, to your point, they got to start play acting again, and that's draining. So tell me about the importance of listening in your work as a CEO.

Say that part again, the listening.

I'm sorry, what's the importance of listening to you as a CEO?

Gosh, it's how much time do you have? I think, um, I think a couple of things. I think that for me, listening has been my greatest teacher. I think sometimes in meetings, in, um, daily interactions, we already have the playlist of what the response is going to be. And I think that one of the greatest gifts that I have developed over the time is listening in a way where there is no noise, listening when there's silence, listening to the subtext. And the last thing I would say to all of my fellow or burgeoning CEOs, listening to your internal knowing. We all know, so there's active listening to someone, but there's also, I would argue, internal active listening. And I think for me, what has been, um, my best guide is that because, you know, you know when you should make the hire, you know when you should pivot, you, you know when something should shift. And how you know is when you really listen to your internal self.. And for me, that has been critical. As an example, during COVID like everybody— well, not everybody, some people— I wasn't making any money. I was making negative money. And the world would tell me, sell your business, do something different, all of the things, right? But I couldn't shake it. It was kind of like something bubbling up inside of me that just kept saying, stay the course, stay the course, stay the course. And so while it didn't make sense to anyone else, it definitely didn't make sense to my bank account, I stood the course. And since that time, my business has expanded. We've won awards, all of the things. But what was the Beginning of that, my internal listening and trusting it, right?

That takes a lot of, that takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of faith in yourself.

Well, and I think for me, um, I think I was probably born courageous and had to find my way to her. I think the fire of my mother and my father, there was no other way to be. I just had to find this version of myself. And I think, um, throughout my life, I have never seen a painful moment not have a purpose. I have never seen, um, a tear not lead to a testimony. And I have yet to see that every day the sun rises. Like, literally, like, it's, it's almost dark now, but guess what? Tomorrow the sun will rise. And so for me, I know that, um, financial ruin doesn't feel good. I know that heartache doesn't feel good. But I guess I just have always believed and everything is changing all of the time, so why can't it be better even if it feels like the worst of it? I've always, I've always just held on to that. Now there's a faith reason, but even for people who, who don't have a faith, there's this thing Pastor of mine said, and I'll do the faith and the non-faith. The first one was Hold on, pain ends. Hope. Hope. Hold on, pain ends. And I guess that's the stuff. Courage plus faith equals hope. And I just try to live in this world and be a CEO who holds on to that daily and see. And right now, I've landed in a pretty okay place.

I am really curious about something. Yes, you were one of the most eloquent guests I've had on this show. Where did you get your eloquence?

Uh, I would have to say I was very shy as a child because my voice has a unique tone and I was bullied. Quite a bit. And I would say my mother. My mother stands— in her youth, she was 5'10", homecoming queen, model, all of the things, dance instructor. And little LaJoy was none of those things. And my mother, for me, was the epitome of elegance. And so I guess I had that model. And over time, um, I just came to the realization that my voice mattered, that I belonged, like all of the times of her saying it, and that my story or my truth, even if it's difficult, even if it's too emotional, deserves to be heard. And so I push through my nerves because as a love letter to the younger version of myself. My younger self deserved to hear someone like me say these things because my mother, Joyce Kennedy, said it to me. That's probably how.

Wow. It's a great gift you have.

Thank you.

One more question, and I'll let you—

Yes.

What's one thing about yourself, Melba, that we would never know about unless you revealed it to us?

Oh goodness, this is a good one. And since I run my mouth all the time, it's a hard one. Um, well, people know this one, but I don't think you would know this, but the smile which I am very proud of, is the result of 6 years of braces and headgear. So, um, while there is photographic evidence, thanks to my mother, who has— only child— a wall of every stage of my life, I not only would people not know it, I have tried to burn every photo from that time. So part of the reason people will say to me, you smile so much— well, because I worked. Like, why do I smile? I am a happy person, but every time I smile, it's kind of like a dig in the face to the brace face girl who just wanted to get through it.

I remember those days. This has been a wonderful conversation, Melba. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk with us.

Thank you for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com.

Podcast.

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