171 - Transforming Business Through Emotional Intelligence and Storytelling with BizLove's Diane Hare

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Diane here.

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the founder and CEO of BizLove, found at bizlove.com. Thanks for taking some time out. Your case, evening, in my case, afternoon, to chat with me and my audience.

Of course, Doug. Thanks so much for having me.

So you are in the transformation. Well, you guys do a lot of things. BizLove is a consulting firm, but it's not your ordinary consulting firm. It's, which is normally I don't do, I don't have consultants on this show, but you were so amazing after my Authority Magazine interview with you that I said, oh, I gotta have this woman on the show. She's incredible. So tell us a little bit about your backstory so people can get to know you. Yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, consulting is not the sexiest profession to have on a podcast. And I say that with so much respect because we usually are behind the scenes coordinating and making executives and leaders shine in all different facets. But you're right that BizLove is a little bit different than your traditional consulting firm. We really focus on transformation. And transformation is an experience, as we all know, those who have gone on their own personal transformations. It's just as much strategy tactics as it is human behavior, emotions. And I love to blend the two of those together to create what I call New Age solutions. I started my career as a Big Four consultant, so I have all the, like, traditional experience, core competency that gets me in the door. But it's really my, my perspectives and my balance of bringing in this human experience to solutioning that I think helps clients move through the throes of transformation because it is nothing but chaos typically when businesses are going through those big transactions and traditional solutions really do fall short in providing the services they need. During those times.

So when we're talking about transformations, I mean, that can be all kinds of different things. What, from your perspective, what kind of transformational work are you guys called into to assist with?

Yeah. So typically, bigger acquisitions, divestitures, when like a new leader is coming on board, a CEO, and has a different vision than that in the past. Also a lot of like when companies are trying to grow into new markets, whether they're like entering the US for the first time or they have a new product or service that is a little bit outside of their core and they have to create a whole new category. We call those transformative moments because something new is being created and it's throwing off your core, right? Your center, your center core business. So it doesn't have to be your traditional transformation program, it's more transformative moments or seasons businesses are in when, when things are not steady in, in the traditional, let's call it traditional state that they're used to.

As a person who is an expert in conflict, this transformation, as you describe it, sounds like it can be, can be conflict rife, conflict ridden as there's That's fair. There's so many different agendas, and, and I say the predominant emotion is going to be fear, uh, and anxiety.

Mhm.

And so it— when you're working at— on the human side of this, which you just mentioned, how are you— what are the processes that you're using to deal with the human side of things? The fact that we are emotional beings, not rational beings. And so the is going to be reactivity around change.

Yeah. Yeah, so conflict. I mean, the title of this podcast, listening, I think is the biggest thing to conflict resolution. Listening, and I would say the way that you communicate is a really important thing during change. Storytelling is our method of communicating. And it's way more experiential than it is transactional. We all get those emails during changes where it's like, your email is changing in 2 weeks. Please update your email and sign into this portal, right? Everyone's like, oh God, like delete or like save it for later, right? Whereas we come in and we really tell a story about why it matters that you change your system and how it improves the overall experience we're providing to our customers and how it fuels our purpose and our growth agenda. Like we never come at you with a transactional change. We come at you with the big picture and how it will help move the business forward. During sudden change, people need you to give that context and really step them through it versus this like forced change that so many, I would say, so many business, I would say, executives are used to performing because it's, it's in your mind the fastest way to change, but it actually does a lot of damage if you're not conscious about how you're creating that change. So Conflict resolution, I would say, is you have to listen and then you have to communicate in a way that can really be received.

When I went on your website, I noticed that you have a whole creative team, videographers, and obviously you're involved in some kind of filmmaking. How does that fit into this whole thing?

Yeah, so it's never the thing we lead with, but it's often a vehicle to communicate and create change. So just like I said, storytelling is an experience. We use video and high-def visuals, and digital experiences are the other vehicles we use to move people through change. So we have a team of creatives that work with our strategists, and together they're able to provide that real balance of delivering profit, delivering like metrics, and creating an experience that people can come along on that with.

So you, you might be engaged to create a series of videos that talk about the story of what's going to be— what's— why are we changing? How are we changing? What's this mean for you? How does it in fact affect the world? How are we going to make the world a better place? And you're going to tell that story through video. Am I getting that right?

Correct.

Wow, that's different. Not— I don't think there are many people that, uh, consulting firms that do that. And then that video, that video is then used to educate and communicate with all the different stakeholder groups.

Correct.

So that could be employees, investors, board members, customers, vendors, general public, whatever might, whatever the critical crucial stakeholders are.

Right, exactly.

You got it. Okay, so I'm not as— all right, that's what I thought.

No, I should hire you.

And so your strategy people are the ones that do the analysis of, okay, how do we get from A to B? And how, how are we gonna do it step by step by step? What are the metrics gonna be so we can measure our progress and whether or not we've achieved outcome B?

Yep.

And then the creative people are the ones that say, all right, now how do we create the compelling picture to move the herd from A, from watering hole A to watering hole B?

Yeah. Yeah.

When they're really comfortable at A, And they really can't see the advantage of going to BE.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the kind of team you just laid out, what I've noticed is that it takes that holistic comprehensive team. Like, I can't attack transformation with just one of those players you just outlined. It takes a whole team.

Yes.

And when you go into the marketplace, typically you buy in players from different houses. I need a creative person. I need a strategist from consulting. I need a storyteller from marcom agency over here. And then they all have different sources, motives, directors, and they're not working in cohesion or unison. And that throws off the transformation. That actually, it makes it even more difficult for people to receive what you want to give them. So as we are entering states of chaos, we are the, we are the like cohesion and unifier of that, call it business storm. And we're able to provide that service in a way that feels really tight. And yeah, and people can feel the difference.

Wow.

Yeah, I knew you were unique. And now I know that you're really unique. I haven't heard of anybody else that approaches it this way. So You've been doing this since 2018, I think. Is that when the company started?

Yeah, 2018.

Now that you, you survived through the pandemic, what was that like?

We got— actually, we're pretty fortunate because we support life science, healthcare, and electronics sectors, and they were the sectors that actually took off during the pandemic, right? Because everyone needed digital devices and everyone needed a vaccine, and we were supporting major players in that space. So what we did not feel Granted, it sucked being locked in at home and not having my team around me, and I couldn't be at my client site, but the actual workload, we weren't impacted as much as a lot of people were. I think we feel it more now because now we went through hockey stick growth. I would say our clients did it as, as well, and then now they're in down cycles. Naturally, that's how the rhythms of business work, and we're feeling it too. So I mean, I always think like business is never gonna be like this. You're gonna have those like ups and downs and it's like so natural if you think about it that nothing can just go straight up. So yeah, getting used to the natural rhythms of business.

Right.

So what does it get you up in the morning, get you really excited to go to work?

Such a great question. I wish I could tell you it's like, marketing strategies and transformation roadmaps, but I, I find the most joy in watching people transform. So watching leaders and executives shift mindsets, have new perspectives, lead in a new way. I really enjoy like the subtle shifts I see in leaders that have ripple effects into their organizations.

How do you help those people do, do the mind shift? That's a big deal.

Yeah, it is a big deal. It doesn't— it's not a short engagement. It's like, I can't do that when I'm hired for 3 months. It's— it takes a couple years with the same executives to really start to shift. I would say one thing I've discounted for a long time, but I realize is actually of service is role modeling, like being an example of the work you're trying to share and being it consistently so that when you can see it, you can believe it, and it doesn't feel like this elusive truth that you're sharing, right? I would say role modeling. I would say, um, so many leaders at the top, I think, forget, um, that they need leaders too. Like, we can't do it all. And I think being in their corner as a professional and as a person, I've noticed that my relationships with clients have become really solid because I'm able to serve them, um, at biz— in the business realm, right, in, in professional services. But there's a part of them that has an agenda that's holistic, like they want certain things from their profession because it fuels their life. And when I'm able to see them as a full, entire human, I'm able to coach and provide services in ways that I wouldn't be able to do unless I, I learned them, got to trust, build trust with them, which has happened over multiple years, over multiple business war zones that we've survived through and there's no shortcut to being that person for an executive. Like, you have to earn it. But once you're there, I think that's the most— that's why I get out of bed is to, like, serve the people that have been with me. And I, I really have that relationship where we can influence each other.

What kind of changes do you typically see in, in your clients, especially in the leaders that you work with? If you could describe the starting point And the, the endpoint, where do they end up?

Because a lot of the leaders I'm focused on serving are so high performing, like it's what got them to the top. Their natural orientation is to grow the bottom line. It's, it's to serve metrics and numbers. And I, I think the influence I see them having when I'm around or my team is around them is they start to put people on the same priority level as profit. And they see it as, um, one of their greatest assets is their people. And when you invest here, this goes up. But how do you do that? Like, how do you actually create balance between people and profit? And that takes a leader that like can step into that space and really hold it. And that is not for every leader. Like, I've, I've noticed like That is a really hard balance.

Say more about this. Really interesting because you're kind of singing my song here. So tell me more about that. What makes— why do you think it makes it so difficult for leaders to find that balance between being kind of bottom-line oriented and then understanding that developing the people is your most important asset and that's where you should be devoting your time and effort? What makes that so difficult for people to get?

I think because the system environments that are around that leader are only motivating them for one of them. Like everything that all the carrots in front of the executives are driven by bottom line growth. Make your sales numbers grow by X percent. That is not nothing to do with how people evolve, grow. Become leaders themselves, how you grow other leaders, that's not in anyone's incentive plan, right?

Right.

So it's the system that's built around these executives that is not in balance. And I think they don't know what it looks like because they came up in a system that they never had a role model that did it. So they can't point to it and say, that's what it looks like in practice. You could say, as much as you want from a book, from a theory, but unless you see it role modeled in real life, you can't, you can't like touch it and really wrap your head around what it looks like in those micro moment moments. And so I think that is why it's so hard to grasp. It's, it's the two of those things.

And, and tell me a little bit about how you help you pry their minds open.

Yeah.

To help them see what you see, because you obviously have a vision. And how do you get them to see your vision, especially to your point, when they never had a role model before? This is not taught in business school. It's not something that has been earmarked as a stepping stone to success. In fact, just the opposite, probably.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say, The incentives and like positive reinforcement they're not receiving in their systems, in their enterprises, I'm giving to them constantly. Like I'm celebrating their wins and I'm reinforcing their good behavior because it's natural for me to celebrate that, right? It's what I want to see. But I also, I also think that what we do for leaders is it's not just long-term impact and growth of their people. It's— we also return on the bottom line. Like, we're also in there making it happen. And the fact that we can do both, right? They're not going to listen to me about how I want to evolve their people and create more leaders if I'm not delivering on their bottom line. Like, you have to do both. That's how you get the respect, and then the trust comes, and then you're able to subtly, like, influence in a way that they're not getting in their systems. They're not getting in that enterprise that they're currently existing in. So they get it from outside. And that's, that's my team, right? We're the ones that are like, go. And then you sit, you start to see these like magical moments where like, they're like, next leader, their right hand does something remarkable, right? Or the deadline we were trying to crush, we, we end early because the team rallies and the performance is through the roof. And it's, they could start to see the subtleties that happen to their team. And now the whole function is performing, and they start to believe in what this is all about. So it takes time, um, and it takes, it takes someone reinforcing their good behavior, and it's, it's often not coming from within their system, right?

Interesting. I teach people how to listen, only I don't teach them to listen. I tell them to ignore the words and listen to the emotions.

How do you teach that?

It's great. It's powerful. The first thing, okay, very briefly, because this is about you, not me. But the way that I teach that is to first of all explain how our culture is biased against emotions and then explain the neuroscience that shows us that we are not rational beings. There is no such thing as rationality. That's a complete— I actually teach a graduate course at Pepperdine on this., at, in, in Malibu, California. And, and once we get into our heads that we are emotional beings and we're not rational, mm-hmm, then we're able to start seeing people for who they truly are. And the behaviors that don't make sense to us now make sense. Oh, you're just being emotional, not, you know, and so what we, then that opens them up to learning how to listen to emotions, which we're pretty good at. Our brains are hardwired for doing this. We're learning how to listen to emotions. And then when we start learning how to reflect emotions, so I would say, so Diane, You're really excited about your work. It really makes you happy. And, you know, you are so content with what you're doing, and you get excited every day because you get to go out and serve people who are actually having a huge influence in the world. And that is one of the most gratifying experiences you have in your career. So there's an example of just labeling an emotional experience. Once they get into learning how to do that, even though in the beginning it's very weird, they start seeing What happens? And it becomes transformational, literally transformational, because all of a sudden they're building instant trust and loyalty with everyone around them. And that trust and loyalty is gold, as you know, it's gold in organizations. And how do you build trust and loyalty? You listen another person into existence and that person will follow you to the end of the earth.

Yes.

Yeah, well, that's what I teach and coach. Um, and I, and I find that when people go through this trans— this is transformation. See, we use the same language— that they come out on the other side completely different human beings, and everything in their life changes. Their family lives, their business lives, their professional lives, everything changes. It's really powerful.

I love the— what you just said, listening people into existence. It's like witnessing them in their greatness is exactly—

that's right.

Exactly right.

That's right. And, and so when you can learn how to listen another person into existence, then all of a sudden, no more fights and arguments. My, my promise to my clients is they'll never have a fight or argument again with anybody ever. Total stakeholder engagement. You'll manage every kind of stakeholder relationship with ease and effort. Board, board meeting, bad board meetings go away. You know, that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore. It's really cool.

Uh, that is pretty cool.

And so anyways, that's what I do. Um, so I've got an idea of this, but I just want to get your take on it. What is it you think that's unique about Diane that she brings to the table that nobody else can?

Wow, what a question. Um, I've always been obsessed with what people call the X factor or the invisible around what makes people great. And I think I can see that in others and put words to it and hold them accountable to attain it. That helps me be great at what I do?

I would say that I'm looking at a woman who has an extremely focused strategic mind coupled with compassion.

That's, uh, really beautiful. Thank you.

That's what makes you unique. There are lots of people who have compassion And there are a fair number of people who have a very focused strategic mind, but there are very, very few people who have both.

Wow, thank you. Yeah, I feel seen.

That's what's fun about these conversations is, is, you know, I get to see stuff that— yeah, and speak to truth that sometimes my guests don't always see. So we've been talking about listening. Um, let's just talk a little bit about that for a minute or two. So obviously listening is a critical skill. How did you learn how to listen?

Great question. I think it helped— it definitely helped that I came from humble beginnings because I never felt equipped with the context to be effective in anything I was in. Like, I came from a very small— I came from a small town. My parents never worked in white-collar jobs. They were both in blue-collar jobs. I never knew what business was. I threw myself into finance as a major because I had a teacher who said finance equals power and influence, and if you want to save and help people, go where the power is. I, I think I listened to survive through, um, through situations I was thrown in because I always didn't know better. I was always a learner and needed to learn quick to be effective in whatever I was in. And so I just learned to listen as a way of teaching myself, um, situational awareness and how to like navigate what I was in.

When you're working with, with clients and you come across somebody who has a crucial or critical role in the transformational process and they aren't a good listener, how do you manage that?

Usually put them in a, in a, in a role that is like a self-doer and a self-contributor. Like I'll isolate their contributions so that they can still be effective and perform, but they're not influencing the whole as much.

So what you'll see is the non-listener is the one who's going to alienate teams and stakeholders because they're not listening, but they'll have expertise that is instrumental in the process, right? So you figure out how to put them— put that round peg in the round hole, right?

Right. Like, it, they still have something to give. It's just not exactly what you're hoping for the masses. Right.

Yeah. It's interesting that, you know, so many people get promoted into positions where, and it's the old Peter principle, right? You get promoted to the highest level of incompetency or your lowest level of incompetency. That people get promoted and yet they don't develop the skill sets necessary for the new responsibilities.

Right.

And that creates a lot of— that can create a lot of problems for people.

Right. Right. Like, no one teaches you how to manage people, and then you're thrown into that role.

And then now what do you do?

Right.

So what do you—

I could talk to you for hours. We don't have that much time. One more— well, no. I'm curious about stakeholder engagement. So when you're engaged, when you're coming in with people who are clients who are calling you to, hey, Diane, we need help with this massive transformation we're going through, stakeholder engagements and stakeholder relationship management seems to me to be a really important piece of this. How do you manage all of that? That goes back to the storytelling, I imagine. Yeah.

So it's interesting that you have a love for stakeholder management, for conflict resolution and like peace. Because that, that is essentially why we focus on it in business too. Like, if the people are on board, like, you're going to complete the mission, like, and so if you're not focused on stakeholders, you are missing a huge component of your mission. And I think, like business, and how the systems support bottom line and metric-driven success, they don't focus on people, collaboration, performance on that level. Stakeholder management is a way to remind us to really focus on your greatest asset. So we use stakeholder management or stakeholder wheels, we really identify all of the people that matter to your mission. And then we create tailored stories and strategies to move them from A to B. It's a very people-focused execution. And that's what makes us successful. It's tailoring all of what they want to hear and what they need to hear in a way that is for the mission, for us to execute the mission. So it's not distracting. It's not— it is the fuel to getting it done.

Got it. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah.

One more question. I'll let you go. What's one thing about yourself, Diane, that we wouldn't know about unless you revealed it to us?

Um, when I was working in Big Four consulting, this is like embarrassing, I would fly to my client sites all the time and I, I'd be like so distraught with the way that I was operating because I was only focused on bottom line and metrics and I felt way out of whack and I was like, this is killing my soul, that I used to write poetry, um, to like fill the hole of like that storytelling human experience that I wasn't getting at work, um, in my journal. Um, and that's when I realized that storytelling has a huge place in business because poetry is just— it's a story, right? It's an experience that you're having. That, that was my technique to get through what I was dealing with at the time, I turned it into a business because I think everyone is dying for that piece that they're not getting. And that was kind of like, that's a nerdy thing about me that I'm like a closet poet.

I play jazz violin. So there you go.

Okay.

That's, what's really amazing to me is that I left the practice of law after 22 years as a successful trial lawyer. Because I wasn't serving people. And that's when I went back to school and got my master's degree and left in 2000 to become a peacemaker and a visionary and teacher.

Yeah. And makes sense.

Best decision I ever made.

Totally makes total sense. And you are— you have the respect of your audience because you've come from that world. Like, you, you lived that life, and now you have both, right? So you can be listened to and respected by and understood by like all different stakeholders because they resonate with one part of you and then you can be all of it.

As, as, as your people can with you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Diane. This has been a wonderful conversation.

Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it, Doug. I hope I get to meet you someday. Absolutely. Cool.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.