180 - Exploring the Complexities of Visionaries, Empathy, and Entrepreneurship with BrEpic Network's Justin Breen

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started. So, Justin Breen, you're the founder of BreePick LLC, which can be found at BreePickLLC.com. Let me spell that out for people. BreePickLLC.com. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Doug. I appreciate it.

Tell me a little bit about yourself and about Bree Pick, what you do, just to get started.

Yeah. So most of my days talking to the world's top visionaries. So not humans, not consultants, not business owners, just top visionaries. And they're endless ideators. And then I hear blah, blah, blah, and then simplify it into a pattern or for an answer. So it's just kind of fun to do that all day. And then I was a journalist for 20 years, created entire— first company based on how PR firms annoyed me for 20 years, and then second company annoyed by PR or annoyed by platforms that let everyone in. So my partner and I created LinkedIn Without the BS invite-only connectivity platform.

Okay. And so you, um, how do you define a visionary?

It's a fair question. Um, it's a fair question. So visionaries see beyond what a human, uh, would see. Um, the best way I found to actually see in terms of a number perspective is their Kolbe— K-O-L-B-E. It's not how your personality is. I don't really care what someone's personality is. It's how their— how your brain takes action. And the overwhelming majority of visionaries are 8, 9, or 10 quick start. 10 is the highest. And then most of them have little to no follow-through. So think ADHD diagnosed or undiagnosed. It's not a disorder. It's a sign of genius mislabeled by humans. And then I'm a very, very, very, very, very rare visionary that has high quick start and high follow-through. So say it, do it, say it, do it, say it, do it. And then There certainly are exceptions, but most humans, most small business owners, they're lower quick start with higher follow-through because that would make sense because visionaries need people to follow through for them.

So I think I've met people like this. These are people who have a lot of ideas, but they're not necessarily able to execute on those ideas.

That is correct. Yeah.

And, and so they may be brilliant, but unless they surround themselves with people who can take their ideas and concretize them and manifest them, they go nowhere.

Someone like that without you has a problem.

Okay. And I take it what you do, you help those people concretize their ideas into stories that they can share with people to attract investors and customers and that sort of thing.

Yeah. So that was an Ivy League, that was an Ivy League definition of what my firms do. I appreciate that. I just hear blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then simplify into a message that people actually understand. And then connection to media, connection to media. And then your IQ is, I'm guessing, very high. 140 and above is genius. That's 1% of the population. Most people I talk to are 140 and above. Talk to a lot of folks, 150, 160, 170, and then I'm, uh, I'm 139, so literally a bridge between genius and humans.

So yeah, I, I, I have to admit I am Ivy League educated. I went to Dartmouth College, so, and, and law school and a master's degree, so I'm probably overeducated for who I am. So what is it—

you said that, I didn't.

It's probably true. What is it about, what is it about your work that you really love?

Well, most people are miserable in life because they're doing something, um, 8 to 10 hours a day that they don't like to do or are not good at. Um, so that's most of society. And then the really sad thing is when people actually find out what they like to do and what they're good at, and they don't do anything about it. So the purpose of my life is to be a connecting superhero for every visionary— visionary, not business owner, not human, not consultant, just visionary— who shares their stories with the world. Their world people, they bore me. So I literally, besides hanging out with my family, all of my day is in the purpose of my life. So I don't like doing it. I love doing it and it's why I'm here.

So, so it's just for you, it's really exciting to talk to very, very smart people with big ideas and you get to do that all day long and get paid for it all day long.

Well, that again, so that's not an Ivy League description. That was a humanistic one, but that's what, that's what, that's interesting. You can relate in both.

I, yeah, I, I was a trial lawyer for 22 years. You gotta be able to move in both worlds.

Well, trial lawyer in 8723 Colby, that's a perfect Colby for a trial lawyer. That's perfect. Cuz you can take all this information and then, uh, from—

I synthesize, I synthesize information very quickly.

Yeah. So, so if you combined you and a visionary, it would be me. So I can make up the ideas and— Oh, there you go.

Okay. So what, I mean, you've already touched on it, but you think that what makes you able to do what you do is the fact that you're kind of in that right on the edge. You said you had a 139 IQ, so I would say that's pretty smart.

Not compared to the people I talk to and that, but yes, it's smart compared to average human.

Yeah. So you're smart enough to hang around with really smart people. They don't bore you, but you can help them connect to real humans through stories and—

Ah, great question. Real humans, but mostly we just connect visionaries to visionaries. Ah, very few connections to real humans. So that is a great, that is some deep thinking stuff right there. So again, was a journalist for 20 years, created an entire business based on how PR firms annoyed me for 20 years. So I actually don't know what PR firms do. I never understood it. When I was a journalist. And so there are some exceptions, but most of the connections now my firm does is think of it as like a Nine Quickstart. There are exceptions, but like a Nine Quickstart with a story meets a Nine Quickstart with a platform, with a podcast or a show or a speaking type thing. So it's actually mostly connecting visionaries to visionaries because I only serve visionaries.

Got it.

Yeah.

Um, how do you, how do you, how do you monetize that? People pay a, they just like are members and they just sign up for a membership or, um, comp for PR companies pay, um, firm per story generation. Okay.

And then, um, for the second company, uh, that will be a yearly, yearly membership.

Got it. Interesting. Well, tell me, let's, let's shift to, um, I've Never Met Anybody Quite Like You Before. Interesting stuff.

Multiple times a day.

Yeah, I'm sure you do. Yeah. Because it's true. You're unusual.

Well, that's the key to life. So most people, they're, again, they're conformists and I don't understand that.

Yeah, it's a, it is a problem. I think it's a, there are a lot of, there are a lot of contributing factors to that, to, to the people being conformists. But when you're out on your own like you are, it's a, it's a, it's definitely a def— definitely a different journey. Tell me about the important— let's move into the topics that sort of intrigue me, which is the— let's start with listening. How important is listening in your business?

Yeah, so that's a great question. The only time I really do any talking is in formats like this because people like you are asking me questions, which I'm grateful for. But as a journalist, That's what it is. It's listening. And I would much rather listen to a visionary talk and then synthesize the information than be the one doing the talking. I can do both. But I'd rather be the one listening. And it's very interesting because you teach leadership empathy. You teach leadership empathy on StrengthFinders, Gallup's CliftonStrengths. I am 34 out of 34 in empathy, dead last. However, however, for visionaries, top visionaries on the planet, I have endless empathy, endless, endless wanting to understand and endless willing to listen. If I'm bored with a conversation, I will stop listening because I just don't care.

So the visionaries are people that are so intriguing to you that you love listening to them. But it— but if it's somebody else, you more often than not will be bored to death and just bored out of my mind, bored out of your mind. So the, the secret for you—

that's most visionaries, by the way, right?

Okay, I, I get that.

Wait, wait, that's all visionaries, right?

It's— they get, they get bored really quickly and really easily if people are not talking at their level, or at the correct And, and so that's— does that pose challenges for you in your, in your personal life?

No.

Oh, good. And why is that?

Because I don't care. No, well, let me tell you, let me tell you what happens. So not always, and again, my brain turns everything into patterns, right? Usually people like me— not always, but usually people like me marry stabilizing humans. So my wife is a pediatrician. She's an 8-7-4-2 Colby, very similar to yours. She's probably 1 in Empathy. I'm second to last in Includer on StrengthsFinder. She's probably 1 or 2 in that. And then, so before— our children are 10 and 8. And so before parent-teacher conferences, she says 3 words to me, "Don't say anything." So I just sit there. Don't say anything. And then, because it, you know, our kids are both 9 QuickStart Visionaries. And they're 8 and 10, so like they can learn whatever they want in school, it's fine. But then I teach them how entrepreneur real world works, so that's a— it's really good mix. But, um, you seek what you need to heal. So I have found collaborative empathy in my, in my life. So like, um, partner for second company, he's Competition 1, Maximizer 2, so he's going to win big at the highest level, but he's Empathy 3. So I've, I've just found collaborative empathy in my life. But no, for the most part, I don't— like, like, you— most people are afraid to— like, I'm not trying to offend people, but it's just like, this is just who I am. And so if I don't have tolerance for it, I don't have tolerance for it.

Exactly. Um, empathy— I, I have a, I have a very precise definition of empathy. I don't know whether it's— it's—

say it, I want to hear this.

Yeah, I'll give it to you. It— empathy is the— it's a learned ability. It's not intuitive or or innovative. And it is the ability to read, assimilate, interpret, and reflect back the emotions of another person.

100%.

From that, from that person's framework, from their framework, from their frame of reference. That's what empathy is.

So I have endless empathy for visionaries because I know without, almost without exception, what it takes to become a visionary. And then in StrengthFinders, I'm 7th in Relator. I think I'm 7th, so I can relate I understand. And so here's some— oh, you asked about visionaries, how to spot them. So here, this is what a true visionary is. And again, all I do is talk to visionaries all day. So entrepreneur visionaries, they are the most damaged people, the most damaged with the best coping skills. So the most damaged with the highest IQ, highest EQ, most guts. That's what separates entrepreneurs from humans. So I have not met one visionary, not one that hasn't overcome at least one of the following 4 things. Most are, most are actually 3 or 4 now. I haven't talked to one. I've talked to 2 in the last year that are less than 3 of these 4. Okay. So this is what separates visionaries from humans, consultants, business owners. One is bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy, two, depression, 3, highest level of anxiety that you can imagine, and 4, likely and/or possible traumatic experiences as a child or young adult. So for humans, consultants, business owners, those are excuses. Entrepreneur at the highest level, figure it out. That's what, that's what entrepreneur life actually is.

My experience has been that a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs who have been, who have created a lot of financial wealth, I mean, they've been really successful, turn out to be pretty miserable in their personal life.

100%. That's why I wrote the second book, How to Build Collaborative Global Companies While Putting Your Loved first. So what I see is entrepreneurs are, because talk is meaningless to me. It's, here's the answer, so do something about it.

And what is your answer?

Well, one is marry a stabilizing human.

That's okay, that helps.

Well, that's usually people like me marry a school teacher, nurse, social worker, pediatrician, a lawyer. Like my wife's like, you have to say thank you to people. I'm like, okay, thank you for telling me that. And so, and then two, one of the chapters in the book that I'll always go back back to is winning the wrong game. So the folks that you're talking about that have all this quote unquote success and in the process they've torched their families or never had a family or never had anything meaningful. And I talk to 1 to 2 people every single week that have let entrepreneur life destroy their family life or prevented them from anything meaningful. That's a bad idea. So winning the wrong game, it's, and these are smart people, right? They're smart.

They just don't know any better.

Yeah, they don't know. Well, that's the point. So if you ask yourself, what game am I actually winning? Then you'll know better. They're smart enough to change. They just don't even— they're not even aware, right?

And so, as you know, I teach leadership empathy, and part of the reason I do that is because I can take these people that are failing in their personal lives and teach them simple skills that will completely change their life. Yeah, it's, it's magic to watch, right?

Yeah, because they'll— they're smart enough, they'll pick it up immediately.

They've just got to be motivated, correct?

Yeah. And again, by the way, for whatever it's worth, most of the folks that you're talking to not so— and if they're not silver spoons, if they started it from—

No, no, no.

I, I, I, I, I probably all 9, they're probably 7, 8, 9, 10 quick starts, almost all of them.

Right. I have worked with people who inherited wealth and they have their own set of problems.

That's a different—

That's a whole different ballgame. I think it's very interesting that, that you, you name those 4 criteria: bankruptcy, depression, trauma as a child, I got trauma as a child. And what was the fourth one?

Oh, I'll do it slower. Okay. So bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy.

Got it.

Actually, I'm going to— I'm going to follow through on my own quick start. So like when I first started the first company, it was all— it was almost always ones and twos because they were small business owners or consultants or humans. Now it's all threes and it's all threes and fours. I mean, except for like two people. So bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy, two, depression, three, the highest level of anxiety that you can—

there you go. Anxiety.

4 likely and/or possible traumatic experiences as a child, young adult.

Right. And what do you think it is? Those are all pretty—

What are you out of those 4? Are you 3?

I'm 3. I'm 3 out of those 4.

Right. Makes sense. What's the one you didn't have?

Bankruptcy.

Bankruptcy. That was actually—

actually, well, anxiety. Yeah, I guess I had anxiety. Definitely trauma as a child, no question about that. Um, anxiety. Probably depression, not really, didn't really suffer much depression, or if I did, I wasn't aware of it.

You're like a 2, 2.5.

But I bought— let me tell you something, as a child it was rough. I was born with a whole bunch of disabilities, right? And no emotional, zero emotional support, right?

So you created empathy. Yeah, so you didn't have what you had, so you create— yeah, so I—

it took, it took a while, it took a while to overcome it, but I did.

Well, you're a 2 quick start. If you were a 9, it would have— it wouldn't have taken as long, but that's, that's what it But that's, that's what I mean. Like, for you, I have endless empathy. I understand, I understand. Like, I feel it at a very— and sympathy is much different than empathy. It is nothing people— I just don't understand what they're complaining about.

Sympathy, sympathy is, is actually— we should never— we shouldn't ever offer sympathy. We should only—

I agree, we should be—

we, we should learn empathy, because when you can be with them, empathic with somebody, they feel heard and validated. When you express sympathy, you're basically emotionally invalidating them.

And so that's really interesting that you said that. Um, that's interesting that you said that. I was talking to, um, he's a 160 IQ, full genius. Um, he's, he's, uh, one of the top, um, anti-aging is not the right term, but longevity space, um, physicians in the world. I mean, he just is. And he was telling me because I was telling him I'm dead last in empathy. And he's like, well, actually, you actually have the highest level of empathy because you endlessly want to understand people like me. I'm like, well, thank you for saying that. But that's what it is. Like, I endlessly want to understand it because, one, they're the only people that understand what I'm talking about. Two, two, um, when you understand the answer, you can eliminate the non-answer. So I just focus on the answer, and that allows me to hang out with my family as much as I I want to, which is what's most important to me.

Yeah, good. That definition of empathy, of understanding others, is useful, but I want— but I look for action. How can I— how can I teach people how to truly be present with another human being?

Right, because your 7th follow-through kicked in. Yeah, it took a while for it to click in, but now you're 7, you'll never stop.

Right, exactly. Right, right. It's, it's a— yeah, it's a really amazing process.

Right.

So, so it sounds like you have an interesting home life. Um, you're— you've got a— you've got a stabilizer for a wife, a pediatrician, obviously highly educated, and she's pretty stable and kind of keeps, keeps guardrails around you in social situations.

Uh, she tries.

Oh, well, okay, she tries. And you've got— I think I read on your— when you posted on my— to me on LinkedIn that your kids are maniac Maniacs. Tell me, tell me about them. They're 8 and 10 and, and they're completely different.

Maniacs. Yeah. And so, by the way, maniac to me is a compliment. And if there's a vacuum in the background, I apologize.

I don't hear anything. It's all good.

Um, so the 10-year-old, Colby Land, he's a 2296. That's a full Pioneer Maniac. Um, and then the 8-year-old is a 3297. That's a full Pioneer Maniac.

So what's a full pioneer maniac? What does that mean?

Well, we'll see what— people that create, uh, space stations or asteroid mining. Or one of my friends is, uh, somewhat similar, Colby, to my children, and he took a small company, uh, and made it into a 9-figure, um, global powerhouse in terms of, uh, doing things for NASA and nuclear power and all sorts So that's what a Pioneer is. They, they can, um, they're way out. They're way out. Yeah. So that's my children. And like, so the 10-year-old, he ran, he just ran a 21:01 5K, which most adults had never—

wow.

And then the 8-year-old, he would, he wants to be a general in the Army, and I strongly feel he'll, I could easily see him going to West Point. Wow.

Huh. It's amazing. So what's it like growing up with kids like that or watching those kids grow up?

Endlessly fascinating.

Yeah.

I mean, the greatest part about being an entrepreneur is seeing the kids, you know, do whatever they want with this and then they can, I don't know, whatever they do is fine, but then they just get to learn this from day one, basically. I started the first company when the oldest was like How old is he? He's probably like 3, 3 or 4. So they've seen it since they've had a memory of conscious, and it's very exciting to see what they'll do with it.

Yeah, I bet. It sounds, it sounds like you've got a heck of a life. Um, tell me about— yeah, I see your 2 books in the background. Tell me about— I've written 4, so you've gotten 2. That's pretty good. Tell me about the— tell me about your books.

Well, congrats on doing 4. That's awesome. The, um, So the first one came out in 2020, right in COVID. And I'm very grateful that Chris Voss, who wrote Never Split the Difference, did the foreword.

Chris wrote the foreword. Okay, good.

The first one. Yeah, I'm very thankful for that. And then that was like how to build a company with zero business background that only partners with visionaries in 2 years. So that was great. And then the newest one, Dr. Peter Diamandis wrote the foreword. I'm very, very grateful for that. He's one of the top entrepreneurs on the planet. And then it's called Epic Life. It's how to build collaborative global companies while putting your loved ones first, which I'm sure you know 'cause you talk to these people all day. It's what people like that want. They just don't know how to do it.

Right. It's just a matter of education. Correct. And building the right interpersonal skills, which most people never learn because they grew up in dysfunctional families and—

100%. Most visionaries did for sure.

Right. And you can only do what you learned. And until you learn something different, right, um, you're going to just continue with the dysfunction in your family.

Exactly.

Okay, one more question. This, this is— I'm looking forward to the answer to this one. What if there—

if—

tell us one thing about yourself that we wouldn't know unless you revealed it to us. I got you.

So many things. I mean, if you get to know me, I have a pretty decent sense of humor.

Okay. And if, if you— if we didn't know you, we would see somebody who's very, very intense and very direct, very direct and forth. But boy, do I get that, because That I've got that in spades. I've gotta learn how to ratchet it back.

Have you ever done your Strength Finders?

I have a long time ago.

Where are you in empathy?

Are you low? I have no idea. It's been, it's been, it's been at least 15 years since I did the Strength Finders.

I got the book. I heard there was a funny story cuz I re— I forgot exactly what her company was called. I think it was called something like Leading with Empathy. It was something like that.

Yeah.

And she sent me her StrengthsFinder. She was 27 out of 34 in Empathy.

Like, didn't have it. Well, this is something I see all over the place. People are teaching stuff that they have no skill in. They have no aptitude.

Can I swear?

You can say whatever you want. I don't care.

It's such bullshit. And I always laugh at it. So I always have people send me their StrengthsFinders, and there are exceptions. There are certainly, there are exceptions. Again, my partner's 3rd in Empathy, and you're probably pretty high. But so most people, most people like me, they're very low in positivity, harmony, consistency, adaptability, empathy, inclusion.

And they teach all this crap and they're not teaching because they don't know what they're doing.

They have not, they're teaching stuff that they think they have, but they don't. And I, so I'm with you. That's why people are like, ah, you have a sense of humor when they get to know me. But this is, I, this is how I am. Like, you either understand it or you don't. And if you, understand it, great.

If you don't know, I, I totally get it.

And I can—

I completely agree with you. The most people out there, they're teaching these skills, really don't have a grounding in science. They don't have a grounding in what really works.

They don't have a grounding in logic.

There you go. There you go. Um, yeah. And so it's interesting to see how it works. I mean, I worked in maximum security prisons training murderers how to be peacemakers. I mean, you learn a lot. You learn a lot in that environment.

Any with death row?

Pardon me? Well, uh, nobody on death row, but people who were serving life sentences without possibility of parole, right? So I mean, they're in prison for their life, for the rest of their life.

I've been in many max security, um, I coached, uh, when I was a journalist, I coached a high school all-star basketball team against the Offenders, and it was max security, huh? And, um, I was, you know, I'm a journalist, I was talking to them and then You know, they're interesting people. So here's what they are. They're, um, they're the most damaged people without the best coping skills.

That's exactly correct.

Entrepreneurs are those people with higher IQ, EQ.

Well, that's really interesting. That's a great insight. Thank you for that.

That's what it is.

Yeah, it is, because there is no question that every single person I've ever worked with that's been in prison is super traumatized and super damaged.

Super traumatized. And then I've always been fascinated by serial killers um, um, and they've had two commonalities, uh, two commonalities. One is they had some type of mix of mental illness. Yeah, that was one. And then two, the worst childhood you could ever imagine.

That's right, that's exactly correct.

Well, that's what it—

that's exactly—

entrepreneurs have the same type of ingredients but not the same type of mental illness, and they have a higher IQ or EQ.

I wonder how— where do you think that comes from?

Where does what come from?

For the entrepreneur, entrepreneurs who have the, they have the coping skills, they grew up in a horrible environment.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're either born top visionary or you're not. I'm convinced of that.

Okay. So you think it's genetics?

Well, I guess it would be, although usually visionaries are aliens within their own family, community, and vertical. So no, so it might be genetics, but their parents are usually not visionaries.

Right.

So, but I guess it was that right, that right sperm, right?

Or it could have been something that happened in their life that get, that turned them around. Somebody said something to them or they read something or—

Oh, so there you go. Okay. So we can 7, 6, follow through this now. So again, I was a journalist for 20 years and all I do is talk to visionaries. So when, as a journalist, interviewed top athletes, top musicians, top actors, what I, okay. And then all I do is talk to visionaries now. So there's only two commonalities that I've seen with all those people, only two. One, they had the same mindset, no excuses, all investment, all action, no excuses, lots of damage, but no excuse, figure it out. Okay, so that's one. Two, and this is what you just said, I'll say it in a different way. They had at least one person, it doesn't have to be a parent, it doesn't, a mentor, it could be a teacher, a coach, they had one, at least one person believe in them. I have one top person that didn't have anyone care about them. That'd be interesting if that happened. Um, I can't imagine it, but I would—

I, I completely agree with you. And I would say that the difference— that helps me understand the difference between the person I'm working with who's serving a life sentence in prison and the people that you work with who are visionaries. The difference is the people in prison never had anybody that believed in them.

Uh, that might be true, but they also definitely don't have the IQ and/or EQ.

Well, this— that for most of them, that's true. Uh, but there are some very— I've met some very, very smart people in prison.

I understand that, but that they're not—

but they are in the— they are in the small minority.

They're in the small— they're in the small. Absolutely. But that's what it is. They had the trauma without any coping skills or anyone that cared about them.

That's exactly correct.

Right. So now we're actually discussing what a real entrepreneur actually is, which is way more interesting to me than Revenue, office space, employee— I don't care about it. All right, sounds like you don't either, which is great.

Yeah, well, we've come to the— come to the end of the show, Justin. Thank you so much. This has been one of the most interesting, insightful conversations I've had. I really appreciate taking the time out to talk with you.

Thank you, sir. I really appreciate it.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social social media to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up ratings and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.