189 - Scaling a Beauty Business: The Role of Listening and Innovation with Bella Lash's Haley Chipman

Welcome to Listening with Leaders. I'm Doug Noll, lawyer turned peacemaker. I teach executive leaders how to listen to emotions rather than words so that they can become the leaders everyone wants to follow. And I teach those same leaders how to be authentically present, available, and connected to their families despite being insanely busy. I have learned that we are 98% emotional and only 2% rational. Learning how to listen to emotions is, in my experience, the foundational skill of life. Stick around to the end of the show, and I'll reveal how you can be on our next guest in 15 to 20 minutes. So let's get started.

Haley Chipman, welcome to Listening with Leaders. You are the co-founder of Prolash with your husband, and we'll learn more about the company in a moment. But the website is Prolash.com. Let's start off with a little bit about your backstory. You started out in nursing, of all things.

Yes. So it's really random that I'm in the beauty industry. I started off in nursing school at BYU, and that is when I got married too, at BYU with my husband and 19-year-old me. Learned how to do eyelash extensions when they first came out. And I loved learning to do this while I was in school because I could make my own schedule and have clients come to my house. And so it was really easy to do while you're in college. And my husband was in engineering school at my same school at BYU, and he saw me doing lashes and he's like, what can I make to make this easier for you? I need a project. For school. Um, how can we make something that makes doing these eyelashes easier? This is a pretty tedious thing. And together we invented our first product, and we got our first patent on a lash tile that had a curved surface which then spread the tips of the lash apart so they were easier to grab. Um, so we invented that first product together, and we're like, well, let's throw this up online and sell these to lash artists. And that is when Bella Lash, our first company, was born when I was just 19 years old.

Wow.

Um, how'd it do?

It actually was amazing. It was a lot of work. We had to go around to all the beauty schools and be like, look at this new thing we made, and look, I can do lashes and I can teach you how to do them. And there was a lot of trips to Vegas and California, and we just visited all these schools trying to get our innovation out there. And we also took to social media too on Instagram, and that was kind of the beginning of companies blowing up on Instagram. So it was good because we got a lot of followers on there. And so yeah, it actually was a pretty quick success, and it came to the point when we graduated from BYU, I did nursing and my husband did engineering. It was, wait, do we keep on going with this? Or my husband had interviews with Apple and Google and he's like, wait, am I going to keep doing eyelashes? And I was the same way. I'm like, am I going to be a nurse? And, um, it was a giant pay cut to go to our careers that we had gone through all this school for. So we just decided to keep running with it. Um, And we kept creating new products and innovating in the professional space until 2020 when COVID hit.

That wipes out the beauty business.

Wiped it out. And it was so scary. All of a sudden we're used to all this growth and everything is so good. And then everything was shut down overnight. And our biggest—

I remember.

Yes. And California is our biggest market, and our ladies and gentlemen there were shut down for 6 months.

Wow.

So we were panicking a little bit, um, and we're like, we got to figure out how people can do these at home. Um, so we got back to innovating, but this time our product we were innovating was lashes that you could do yourself at home. And we also have known for a long time there's a big barrier in our industry with the time it takes. And there's also people that are allergic to professional lash extensions. So this was a way for us to create a product for all the women that don't get ProLash already. Um, so we came out with ProLash and It took a year to develop. It was incredibly hard. We had a lot of people that didn't think we could do it.

Yeah.

And reading your Authority Magazine interview, it looked like it was a real pain in the ass.

It was awful. Like, and I am the tester rat and I was just running around with the worst lashes in the world and everyone's like, don't you own an eyelash brand? Like, I'm testing something. So how we work is I test stuff out and then I can somehow communicate with Zach. Engineers kind of think in a way different way, and the way you communicate with them is different. Um, it's way more technical, and it's like you need to explain things in a very specific, almost dumbed-down version of it so they can look at all the steps. So like, if I lose a lash, I I need to say, oh, I noticed I lost this right after I came in contact with water, and the adhesive seems to still be on the lash. It didn't transfer to my other lashes. And you know what I mean? You have to almost analyze everything about it and tell them your analysis in a very specific way, and then they can change it based off your feedback. And then you test the next round, and then we go back and forth until we have the product that we're like, holy crap, we did it. It's here. And when we launched ProLash, it was amazing because our goal was 7 days and it was 10 days. And then so the lashes lasted 10 days and then you can put them on yourself and they're really easy to put on because of these adhesives that we developed here in the USA.

So, wow.

So ProLash started— were you launched in 2022?

We launched in '21.

'21. How's it doing?

Actually, no, it was '22. Actually, you're right. '22.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I thought— yeah, it was '22. Our 2-year birthday, actually, on Friday.

Okay. How, how's the product doing?

You're—

it's all, it's all B2C, right? E-commerce?

Yeah. It's done amazing. It's done amazing. We had a really fun year last year. We launched into Free People. So we're starting to launch into more retailers and it's been really fun to be B2C because our other business was B2B.

Right.

And so our market is much bigger and that's exciting.

So here you are, entrepreneur with your husband. That's a challenge in and of itself.

Yes. Yes.

And you've got— I know you've got 3 small children. Yep. What's it— what gets you excited when you get up in the morning? I'm—

honestly, the growth has been so exciting of this company. I honestly thrive off the growth and just like myself growing and learning and every day just getting better. It's been like such an exciting ride. And that's why with Bella Lash, it was so hard when we stopped growing, because I think both of us kind of feed off that energy of growth and like, yeah, we're doing great, we're doing better, we're growing, we're growing, you know? So growth. And then honestly, I just like, I have my why very clear. I have my whole life like known what I want and my why is for sure my family. And, um, so I just like, I wake up and I'm really excited every day because it's pretty, pretty amazing. Our family, you're having the dream.

You get to be with your kids.

Yep.

You get to be with your husband. You're making a difference in people's lives and you're making money at it.

Yeah, it's pretty exciting. It's pretty fun.

Yeah. How big a team do you have now?

We have about 30 in office.

Wow.

And then we have independent contractors, probably about 15 independent contractors.

And so you're, you're based in Salt— in the Salt Lake City area?

Yeah, we're just south, kind of in the Provo area.

Right. Okay.

Um, amazing.

So what is it—

if you look back on this journey that you've been on and you're still— well, before I get there, So scaling, you're, you're, you, you've got the concept and now you're scaling. What's the scaling process look like for you, for the company?

So the scaling process has been, I would say the hardest part of a business is getting the talent and employees to help you out has been by far the hardest part. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to relinquish control. But also, we have hired talent, I feel like, that is even better at us at what they do. We cannot be the best at everything. And so I think we have a pretty rigorous hiring process, um, and we're very picky on who we let on the team because we have a really great culture at our work. And, um, like I said, it's just fun and we're growing. So I think that culture is pretty fun, and we're all about trying new things. The beauty industry is crazy evolving. I never thought something could change and innovate so quickly in industry, but things do. They just— it's quick. And so we're all about like, hey, you think you like that idea? Let's try it. And letting our employees kind of run and not micromanaging them. So that's kind of—

I've interviewed— yeah, I've interviewed a lot of entrepreneurs like you on this show, and the ones that have been the most successful say the most important thing you can do is hire the right people and then let them do their jobs.

Yeah.

And that's really, that's really the secret to scaling and success, right? If you're gonna hire a person, let's say, who's a manufacturing expert, you want to hire somebody, you want to hire a manufacturing expert, but then you want to hire that, that person also knows, has to know how to hire another manufacturing expert. They have to have the skills to be a leader as well as subject matter expertise. And that, that's the— seems to be the great secret of success in, in startups.

Yeah, we also read a lot of books and we're learning. I feel like every day, like, where I did nursing and he did engineering and we're running this company, it did not prepare you for leadership, did it? No. So we've had to read a lot of books. We've had to go to some conferences. We actually have gone to some Dave Ramsey conferences recently and really liked that. Um, but we love the book, The E-Myth Revisited is our favorite book. We love that book. It talks a lot about how you can create systems to really simplify your life at work. And that's a good one too.

Well, you're just kind of learning, learning as you go.

Totally.

So what is it unique about you that you think you bring to the table that's helped make ProLash so successful? And before that, Bella Lash?

I think so. I've always had a knack for small, like, little things, like even eyelash extensions. I got really good at the tedious little things and to a point where I could educate people on how to do this in a better way and how to simplify their lives. When I first started doing eyelash extensions, I was trained with like a single piece of paper and you had these like really sharp tweezers by someone's eye. And it's kind of a scary thing to do when you first start. I didn't feel prepared. And so I— we wrote a whole book like, here's how to safely do this and be comfortable. Doing eyelash extensions, and we were the first people to write a book on here's how you do eyelash extensions. And it was like a 60-page book/manual that really made you feel prepared. So I feel like I'm really good at seeing gaps in specifically the eyelash industry. And I think it's just because I love eyelashes. I got my first set when we got married, actually, and I fell in love with them. And so I— and I'm not like a big beauty person. I did nursing. I was a tomboy growing up with soccer. I'm not really a high maintenance person, I would say. But I immediately loved eyelashes because it's like a high maintenance thing you can do to be very low maintenance every day. Like, I get up, I don't have to do makeup. My eyelashes are done and I go out the door. So I saw it as just like a way to be a lot more efficient. And so with Bella Lash, I feel like we were good at seeing— especially me too— as seeing gaps in our industry and just fixing those. And we've known for a long time that professional lash extensions take too long for people, and we've been trying to innovate and create a product that made it faster for 5 years. So just the fact that we innovated this ProLash was amazing. And I think a strength I have is testing things out and being like, yep, I love this, and communicating with our whole engineering team, especially my husband, on what we need.

So what, what, what's your competition like? Do you have any competition for this?

Yes, we do have competition. Honestly, But I think I love competition. I think it's so healthy. I— when we first started Bella Lash and I was young and immature, I saw competition as a huge threat. But as I've gotten older, I actually love the competition because I can't make a product that's for everyone. I really can't. I can do the best I can, but I truly firmly believe if you don't like my product, there's another product out there that you'll probably like. And I feel confident in what we've created that enough people will love it. And if you don't, then I feel confident in recommending you to one of my competitors and say, hey, you might like this one. It's a little different. It might be softer and lighter for you or more what you want. And that's come with just like maturing and seeing, seeing it as competition is healthy for sure.

Well, that's just demonstrating how much confidence you have in your own product.

I'm very confident in our product. It truly is unique and innovative. Like, you try on any lash and then you try on ProLash and there is a very, very huge difference in the second you take them off and put them on. So it's just a different product. It's cool. It's really cool.

Good. Let's talk about listening. This show is called Listening with Leaders. I, I, in my view as a lawyer turned peacemaker, listening is the foundational skill of life, and it's a skill that not many people have mastered. Tell me about, and we talked a little bit before we went on about listening in your life. So let's, let's talk about that a little bit. How important has listening been for you?

So I, so I told you this at the beginning, but I'll tell everyone this. I am such a logical person. And growing up, my family, we don't have much emotion. Like everyone jokes, your family never cries. We're very good at hiding the emotion and shoving it down. And so when I got married, it was huge because my husband is actually very emotional. And you can tell immediately how he's feeling very, very quickly if you can just read the signs on him, which are very clear. His emotions are like right on his sleeve, very— you can see him. And I really struggled when we first got married, so we had to go to a marriage therapist and he was like, Haley, you gotta get on the emotional level with him. Like, you're too logical, you can't see things as— you got to get on the emotional and then you can reason right there. But there's nothing that's gonna happen when you're up here in the logical. So, um, I learned very little very early on in my life how to listen to others. And I'm very grateful for JP Lilly was our therapist and he was great.

Good for you. So how, tell us about how you're using, how you use listening as the co-founder and working in the business today. How you're listening works for you.

Listening works for us. Um, I check every single review. So we read through all the reviews, see how people are feeling, and we really listen to our people that use the product. We love our customers, and so we listen a lot by reading the reviews. And that's a big way that we create all of our content. And I'm, I'm really in charge of all of our content that we put out there. And so we listen to our customers and we create videos to help them. And I do lives to listen to what other— I'm like, hey, I'm live right now. Let me know what questions you have and I'll answer them. And then also in our company, we have, we have a ton of meetings. I feel like every time I'm there, I'm just in meetings with my people and just I have to listen the whole time. So it's been a good thing to learn early on, for sure.

Yeah. So you ever encountered people who aren't such good listeners? Yes. And how do you— how often do— does that happen?

Oh, it happens all the time in the world. I feel like, like you said, if everyone listened a little better, yeah, would be a better place. I kind of I've always seen the world as like, you don't know someone you haven't walked in their shoes. You don't know why they're thinking what they're thinking. Um, I was always taught that growing up, so I feel like I'm very— I'm not quick to judge. I'm always like, okay, something's— you know what I mean? Must be happening or going on. And I feel like the benefit of the doubt isn't there as much. For people and their background, you know what I mean? So I feel like with listening, that's a thing people really struggle with, is like, really, hey, maybe this person's having an off day, maybe something happened, and let's just listen to them, you know?

And what happens when you do that?

Oh, you got to get on the emotional, you guys. If you can get on the emotional level with them and say, even if it's not— it's like a lot of times people say something, you're like, I don't understand why you would think that. But if you get on that emotion, say, oh my gosh, I see that you're feeling frustrated.

Or, or even more directly, you're really frustrated.

Yeah, you're really frustrated. Like, I see that, I'm so sorry. Like, what can I do to help? Or what's going on? But you have to acknowledge how they're feeling. Before you can get—

I call, I call that listening other people into existence.

I love that. Yes, you totally—

it's the most powerful gift you can give to another human being is to do exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, because so few people feel heard, so many people feel invisible and ignored, and when you can listen them into existence by just reflecting back their emotions with a you statement I teach using a you statement, not I statement. Um, they feel gratitude, they feel validated, they feel connected, and it builds trust and loyalty and rapport like you can't believe. And in personal relationships, deep emotional intimacy from the simple, simple concept of just listening to emotions. Yeah, pretty powerful.

It really is powerful. It is.

So how old are your kids?

Uh, 10, 7, and 4.

Oh, perfect. You listen to your kids?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah. But they are chatterboxes. I feel bad sometimes. I'll like, there's like a video going and I'll see a video of me and they're asking me a question over and over again and I'm not responding and I'm like, oh crap. Whoops. Um, but I do, I try to really carve out time for my kids. I am very clear, like, when I'm not at work, I'm with my kids. I will answer you when they go to bed, and I really try to be present.

The next time one of them gets upset, which will probably be in the next hour or two, right?

Yes.

Say something like this: you're really frustrated, you're really angry, You're really unhappy. You really don't feel like you're being supported right now, and you're all alone. Just say those words and watch what happens.

Okay, I will.

Uh, research shows that the best thing a parent can do is feedback the emotions a child is experiencing so the child can learn emotional self-regulation. And children learn emotional self-regulation appropriately when their parents are reflecting back with their experiences so they can get a handle on what it is they're feeling.

I love that. I need to use that more on my little boy, for sure.

Oh, absolutely. The research shows that if you start doing this around the age of your 4-year-old, by the time he's 12, he'll be 2 grade levels ahead of his peers academically. Because emotional competence— as emotional competence grows, so does intellectual competence. And unfortunately, we Too many families, I think, like what you grew up in, crush emotions. That doesn't mean the intellect can't grow, but it can't grow to the same degree that it can grow if you build emotional competence along with intellectual competence.

I love that.

Which is why I teach what I teach. It's really powerful.

Yeah.

So where, where does ProLash go in the next 5 years?

Oh, my goal. I have a goal to be in Sephora one day. So that's a big goal of ours.

In the retail, in the retail space.

In the retail space. Yes.

And keep growing the company.

Keep growing. Honestly, my husband, he is never going to not do his own thing. He's always been that way since the moment I met him, and he's had to teach that to me. Because that doesn't come natural to me, the whole entrepreneurship. And so I can see us just keep innovating, creating new products and really trying to own innovation in the eyelash space.

For sure. You have new products in mind that you're developing?

Oh yeah. Always. We'll have some really exciting actually things this year actually that we've been working on for like 6 months and we're finally A few months away from launching it.

So yeah, you look really excited. Yeah, this is coming through. You're really proud.

Yeah, it's really fun.

Really proud of your accomplishments. You have a sense of confidence and self-satisfaction as a young woman that's— yeah, we're doing this.

Yeah, we're doing it. We're figuring out— we don't know what we're doing, but we're figuring it out. We're getting better every day.

So, and you're making enough money to make the house payments and keep food on the table. Yep, that's what counts.

That's what counts.

One more question, Haley, and I'll let you go. If you've listened to my podcast, you know what it's going to be. What's one thing about yourself that we would never know unless you revealed it to us?

Okay, um, I am a clean freak.

A clean food.

Yes. So I saw a reel the other day that was like a mom, a do— a kid kept getting a water and the mom kept taking it before she was done drinking it and being like, oh, I'm just cleaning it up. And, um, my husband gets at me all the time for this, but he'll be cooking and I'm just like putting stuff away the whole time. Um, so I have a little bit of an OCD tendency to me. Of having order in my life. And I think a lot of women can relate to that.

That explains why you went to nursing school, because that's a tendency that's really good to have as a nurse or anybody in the medical field. And I think it also explains why you've been so good in the eyelash business, because it's very detailed, intricate work.

Yeah, it is, it is. I I work on it all the time to try to— woo, saw— you got to let that go with the kids especially. Mom, we live here. We live here. It's not like no one lives here all the time. So I have to learn to calm down a lot. I have to be like, woo, saw, it's going to be good. They're going to go to bed and I can get this cleaned up, but let's just relax.

Chill out.

Chill out. So that's one thing about me.

I have some OCD tendencies, but Well, there it sounds like you've got them well under control. You're aware of them and you're using them to your advantage.

Yes. Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for your time today, Haley. It's been a great conversation.

Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Doug Noll here. Thank you so much for listening to Listening with Leaders. If you are a successful executive leader who would like to be on this program, please visit podcast.dougnull.com/podcast. If you got something out of this interview, would you please share this episode on social media? Just do a quick screenshot with your phone and text it to a friend or post it on the socials. If you know someone that would be a great guest, tag them on the social media to to let them know about the show and include the hashtag #ListeningWithLeaders. I love seeing your posts and guest suggestions. We are regularly putting out new episodes and content. To make sure you don't miss any episodes, go ahead and subscribe. Your thumbs up, ratings, and reviews go a long way to help promote the show and mean a lot to me and my team. Want to know more? Go to my website, DougNoll.com, or follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Facebook and Instagram. That's @DouglasEnoll. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next show.